Bush using 'HO's' against muslims at Guantanamo prison camp

Discussion in 'Politics and the Topics of the day' started by muckraker10021, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <font face="verdana" size="5" color="#d90000">
    The bush junta has completely lost their minds. I guess bush was watching the live video feed in the oval office with Gonzales and Condi. :D :D :D :D </font>

    <img src="http://www.ap.org/media/images/logo.gif">
    <font face="Trebuchet MS, Arial Unicode MS, Bookman Old Style, sans-serif" size="3" color="#000000">

    Thursday, January 27, 2005 · Last updated 2:43 a.m. ET

    <font face="arial black" color="#D90000" size="5">Pentagon Had Female Interrogators Use Sexual Tactics to Break Muslim Detainees</font>

    Thursday, January 27, 2005 · Last updated 2:43 a.m. ET</b>

    SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- Female interrogators tried to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay by sexual touching, wearing a miniskirt and thong underwear and in one case smearing a Saudi man's face with fake menstrual blood, according to an insider's written account.

    A draft manuscript obtained by The Associated Press is classified as secret pending a Pentagon review for a planned book that details ways the U.S. military used women as part of tougher physical and psychological interrogation tactics to get terror suspects to talk.

    It's the most revealing account so far of interrogations at the secretive detention camp, where officials say they have halted some controversial techniques.

    "I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the author, former Army Sgt. Erik R. Saar, 29, told AP.

    Saar didn't provide the manuscript or approach AP, but confirmed the authenticity of nine draft pages AP obtained. He requested his hometown remain private so he wouldn't be harassed. Saar, who is neither Muslim nor of Arab descent, worked as an Arabic translator at the U.S. camp in eastern Cuba from December 2002 to June 2003. At the time, it was under the command of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who had a mandate to get better intelligence from prisoners, including alleged al-Qaida members caught in Afghanistan.

    Saar said he witnessed about 20 interrogations and about three months after his arrival at the remote U.S. base he started noticing "disturbing" practices.

    One female civilian contractor used a special outfit that included a miniskirt, thong underwear and a bra during late-night interrogations with prisoners, mostly Muslim men who consider it taboo to have close contact with women who aren't their wives.

    Beginning in April 2003, "there hung a short skirt and thong underwear on the hook on the back of the door" of one interrogation team's office, he writes. "Later I learned that this outfit was used for interrogations by one of the female civilian contractors ... on a team which conducted interrogations in the middle of the night on Saudi men who were refusing to talk."

    Some Guantanamo prisoners who have been released say they were tormented by "prostitutes."

    In another case, Saar describes a female military interrogator questioning an uncooperative 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before the Sept. 11 terror attacks. Suspected Sept. 11 hijacker Hani Hanjour received pilot instruction for three months in 1996 and in December 1997 at a flight school in Scottsdale, Ariz.

    "His female interrogator decided that she needed to turn up the heat," Saar writes, saying she repeatedly asked the detainee who had sent him to Arizona, telling him he could "cooperate" or "have no hope whatsoever of ever leaving this place or talking to a lawyer.'"

    The man closed his eyes and began to pray, Saar writes.

    The female interrogator wanted to "break him," Saar adds, describing how she removed her uniform top to expose a tight-fitting T-shirt and began taunting the detainee, touching her breasts, rubbing them against the prisoner's back and commenting on his apparent erection.

    The detainee looked up and spat in her face, the manuscript recounts.

    The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.

    Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.

    "The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."

    The interrogator used ink from a red pen to fool the detainee, Saar writes.

    "She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee," he says. "As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred.

    "She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward" - so fiercely that he broke loose from one ankle shackle.

    "He began to cry like a baby," the draft says, noting the interrogator left saying, "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

    Events Saar describes resemble two previous reports of abusive female interrogation tactics, although it wasn't possible to independently verify his account.

    In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap. That session was immediately ended by a supervisor and that interrogator received a written reprimand and additional training, the military said.

    In another incident, the military reported that in early 2003 a different female interrogator "wiped dye from red magic marker on detainees' shirt after detainee spit (cq) on her," telling the detainee it was blood. She was verbally reprimanded, the military said.

    Sexual tactics used by female interrogators have been criticized by the FBI, which complained in a letter obtained by AP last month that U.S. defense officials hadn't acted on complaints by FBI observers of "highly aggressive" interrogation techniques, including one in which a female interrogator grabbed a detainee's genitals.

    About 20 percent of the guards at Guantanamo are women, said Lt. Col. James Marshall, a spokesman for U.S. Southern Command. He wouldn't say how many of the interrogators were female.

    Marshall wouldn't address whether the U.S. military had a specific strategy to use women.

    "U.S. forces treat all detainees and conduct all interrogations, wherever they may occur, humanely and consistent with U.S. legal obligations, and in particular with legal obligations prohibiting torture," Marshall said late Wednesday.

    But some officials at the U.S. Southern Command have questioned the formation of an all-female team as one of Guantanamo's "Immediate Reaction Force" units that subdue troublesome male prisoners in their cells, according to a document classified as secret and obtained by AP.

    In one incident, dated June 19, 2004, "The detainee appears to be genuinely traumatized by a female escort securing the detainee's leg irons," according to the document, a U.S. Southern Command summary of videotapes shot when the teams were used.

    The summary warned that anyone outside Department of Defense channels should be prepared to address allegations that women were used intentionally with Muslim men.

    At Guantanamo, Saar said, "Interrogators were given a lot of latitude under Miller," the commander who went from the prison in Cuba to overseeing prisons in Iraq, where the Abu Ghraib scandal shocked the world with pictures revealing sexual humiliation of naked prisoners.

    Several female troops have been charged in the Abu Ghraib scandal.

    Saar said he volunteered to go to Guantanamo because "I really believed in the mission," but then he became disillusioned during his six months at the prison.

    After leaving the Army with more than four years service, Saar worked as a contractor briefly for the FBI.

    The Department of Defense has censored parts of his draft, mainly blacking out people's names, said Saar, who hired Washington attorney Mark S. Zaid to represent him. Saar needed permission to publish because he signed a disclosure statement before going to Guantanamo.

    The book, which Saar titled "Inside the Wire," is due out this year with Penguin Press.

    Guantanamo has about 545 prisoners from some 40 countries, many held more than three years without charge or access to lawyers and many suspected of links to al-Qaida or Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime, which harbored the terrorist network.


    EDITOR'S NOTE: Paisley Dodds is an Associated Press reporter based in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and has been covering the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, since it opened in 2002.

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  2. Makkonnen

    Makkonnen The Quizatz Haderach BGOL Investor

    "The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."
  3. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    You are cracking me the fuck up with those lead ins !!! More seriously, it appears that they are reading from the same book of tactics used at Abu Ghraib. The sad thing is apparently they can't see that they are playng right into the hands of the supposed foe (Al Qaeda/recruitment); the good thing, if there is one, is that these continuous relevations at some point <u>must</u> take their toll on the administration, if not, at least with those who have shaky loyalties and allegiances to the adminstration.

  4. Makkonnen

    Makkonnen The Quizatz Haderach BGOL Investor

    Que - the general at Abu Garaib came from Guantanamo- he was sent to Iraq to duplicate his work at Gitmo
  5. pitbull

    pitbull Guest

    No wonder were losing this war... the best we can do.
  6. blackbull1970

    blackbull1970 The Black Bastard BGOL Investor

    I would lie like a mofo under that type of Interrogation for a Free ASS and Titty show.

    If this is true......it's funny as Hell!

  7. Makkonnen

    Makkonnen The Quizatz Haderach BGOL Investor

    smearing period juice in your grill too? chill
  8. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <font face="times new roman" color="#D90000" size="4"><b>It's true.....

    .....and it's only funny if viewed as a Tragicomedy.........What are they going to do next? .........Put electric vibrators up muslim men's asses and then ask them where bin laden is..........</b></font>
  9. Fuckallyall

    Fuckallyall Support BGOL Registered

    I think you misunderstanding torture. Grossing people out and making them uncomfortable is not torture. If it is, MOST interrogation is torture. Shoving things up thier asses, and maybe even touching thier genitalia (if it is in a painful manner) is torture. Offending thier societal/cultural morays is not torture.
  10. tehuti

    tehuti Guest

    Torture involves causing extreme physical pain; bodily and/or mental anguish.

    The intent of these interrogation tactics is obviously to cause extreme mental anguish.
  11. Fuckallyall

    Fuckallyall Support BGOL Registered

    If that is your definition, then like I said, MOST interrogation is torture.
  12. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    Is that not a distinction without a difference ??? Among some people, cultural insults maybe equally as uncomfortable as physical pain; and either may generate as much disdain as the other.

  13. Fuckallyall

    Fuckallyall Support BGOL Registered

    That is my point, although you put expressed it more eloquently than I did. My point is that the term torture was put in the Geneva convention to prevent mutilation and killing of POW's beyond the pale of acceptable warfare. It was not put there to keep POW's from being mistreated at all, because any form of interrogation can be arguably torture, since interrogation aims to provoke the dissemination of information by one who wishes to halt the interrogation. Holla.
  14. tehuti

    tehuti Guest

    Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
    Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of
    International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva
    from 21 April to 12 August, 1949
    entry into force 21 October 1950​

    PART I


    Article 1

    The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances.

    Article 2

    In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.

    The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.

    Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

    Article 3

    In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

    1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

    To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

    (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

    (b) Taking of hostages;

    (c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

    (d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

  15. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <font face="arial unicode ms, verdana, sans-serif" color="#333333" size="4">
    <table id="table4" bgcolor="#bf001f" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="44%"><br /> <tr><td width="181"><img src="http://www.geobop.com/education/911/images/mine/bush/nazi.jpg"><img src="http://www.geobop.com/education/911/images/mine/bush/nazi.jpg"></td><br /> <td bgcolor="#bf001f"><br /> <table id="table5" bordercolorlight="#BF001F" bordercolordark="#BF001F" bgcolor="#bf001f" border="5" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="335" width="200"><br /> <tr><br /> <td><br /> <img src="http://www.nypress.com/17/31/news&columns/BUSH-FEATURE-300.jpg" border="0" height="335" width="200"></td><br /> </tr><br /> </table><br /> </td><br /> </tr><br /></table>

    'Fuckall' , you are are walking in the forest but you can't see the trees. The members of the bush junta are not stupid. The bush junta knew that the treatment they wanted to inflict upon the detainees at Iraq & Cuba was ILLEGAL under US law. They know that they are engaged in fascism. Their model is no different than what Benito Mussolini tried to implement in Italy in the 1930's -1940's.
    Mussolini said:

    "<u>FASCISM</U> should more properly be called <u>CORPORATISM</U> because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

    "State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management." -- Benito Mussolini

    The bush junta can't call it 'fascism', or 'national socialism', or 'corporatism' because the American people would reject such terminology and remove them and there allies in the congress & senate from office. So they use phrases like "Ownership Society", "It's You Money" etc. as they pursue Corporatism.

    More importantly, unlike Mussolini or Hitler or Franco, the bush junta can not seize complete power via the barrel of a gun and arbitrarily suspend all laws.

    The bush junta under current American law which they can not arbitrarily suspend knows that they are accountable for their actions.

    How does this relate to the abuse of prisoners?

    The bush junta knew that the treatment they wanted to inflict upon the detainees at Iraq & Cuba was ILLEGAL under US law. They had to CYA- (Cover Your Ass) before they gave the orders to abuse, torture, humiliate (you pick the word that you like best) detainees.

    So, bush had is butt-boy, Alberto Gonzales, contact John Ascroft's Justice Department for a "new legal opinion" of what abuse, humiliation & torture actually means under US law. They key word here is OPINION.

    Jay S. Bybee wrote the Justice Department 'OPINION'. Bybee's 'OPINION'. contravened US LAW enacted by Congress in 1996 . That US law was The Convention Against Torture and the accompanying criminal provisions enacted by Congress in 1996 to prohibit abuse and torture.

    Bybee's gave the bush junta the CYA- (Cover Your Ass) paperwork that they needed to invoke plausible deniability if the activities at Abu Garaib and Guantanamo became public. Bybee's 'OPINION' gave the Bush Administration cover for twenty-two months.

    Two weeks before sending Gonzales to the senate for his Attorney General confirmation hearings, the bush junta suspended the Bybee 'OPINION' and said that they no longer agreed with Bybee's 'OPINION'.

    Oh . by the way, Jay S. Bybee, was rewarded for writing the 'OPINION' with a Federal Judgeship. Bybee is now a Federal Judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. He was confirmed by the Senate on March 13, 2003.

    Did the senate know that Jay S. Bybee wrote the 'Torture Opinion' when they voted to confirm him? Of course not!

    <u>Making Torture Legal</u> </h2><font face="arial" color="#0000FF" size="3"><b>
    ......"Reading through the memoranda written by Bush administration lawyers on how prisoners of the "war on terror" can be treated is a strange experience. The memos read like the advice of a mob lawyer to a mafia don on how to skirt the law and stay out of prison. Avoiding prosecution is literally a theme of the memoranda.".....</b></font>

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    <font face="verdana" size="4" color="#0000FF">
    <font color="#333333"><h3>READ:</h3>
    Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror by Mark Danner</font>

    Excellent Book!, it contains all the documents that the "Media of Mass Distraction" didn't publish.

    A 30 year veteran Israeli torture expert says:
    <font face="times new roman" color="#FF0000"><b>
    “I hate Arabs, I’ve been fighting and killing them for years. If we treated our Arab and Palestinian prisoners the way you Americans do at Abu Ghraib & Cuba, the state of Israel despite our military power would no longer exist. Every Arab man, women & child would be committed to killing us.” </b></font>

    <img src="http://lookinside2-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lerRqTz/pIRYnCvYHCGUo4WBY8szw9V7zjoNur4SzLaZyHzFpO4ZL2zW" width="400" height="624">
  16. Gods_Favorite

    Gods_Favorite Active Member Registered

    If we treated our Arab and Palestinian prisoners the way you Americans do at Abu Ghraib & Cuba, the state of Israel despite our military power would no longer exist. Every Arab man, women & child would be committed to killing us.”

    The mans right.
  17. pitbull

    pitbull Guest

    If we treated our Arab and Palestinian prisoners the way you Americans do at Abu Ghraib & Cuba, the state of Israel despite our military power would no longer exist. Every Arab man, women & child would be committed to killing us.”

    He's kidding right..? GTFOH. (rather be in US jail over Israel.)
  18. Makkonnen

    Makkonnen The Quizatz Haderach BGOL Investor

    arent palestinian men and women and older children committed to killing israelis?
  19. Fuckallyall

    Fuckallyall Support BGOL Registered

    Of course they knew. And they acted like they knew, and that was thier mistake. They should have just had fall guys and payoff money handy.

    On to the larger point, I think it is naive to really think that there are no agressive interrogation tactics (torture) going on in any widescale conflict. If you were personally involved in a conflict, I would bet my retirement money that you would give a guy a shot in the jaw (or something to that effect) to get information that may save the lives of you comrades.

    Also, on the fascism theme, I agree, to a point. That is why I complain so frequently about the amount of power we want to give the government. One can only influence events with power, and this government has abused every power entrusted to it. I will get worried when they try to change the form of electing our leaders.
  20. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <FONT FACE="times new roman" size="4" color="#000000">
    <font color="#0000FF">No I'm not kidding.</font>

    In 1999 the Israeli Supreme Court took the courageous and long overdue decision to ban outright <u>ALL FORMS</u> OF PHYSICAL FORCE AND TORTURE DURING INTERROGATION.
    <font face="verdana">
    <u>The Painful Lesson Israel Learned About Torture</u> </font></font><p><p><p>

    <img src="http://bitterfact.tripod.com/iraq/images/torture/040510onslpo_prison_01_p350.jpg">

    <font face="times new roman" color="#FF0000" size="4"><b>
    What type of information was Rumsfeld and company trying to get by allowing US soldiers at Abu Gharib to Fuck teenage Iraqi boys in the ASS while their parents watched???

    This sordid act was filmed and every US senator saw this film when they were allowed to see the entire Abu Gharib cache of pictures and videos. The Abu Gharib pictures that we all saw in the newspapers and on television were less than 5% of what the Defense Department has. </b></font>

    <font size="4">
    The truth about what the US government is doing "In Our Name" is freely available if you give a damn about reality. Many americans don't give a shit about what our government does as long as they can put gas in their Hummer, get a chemical-burger at McDonalds, get their Viagra pills, and keep the NIĢĢERs out of their neighboorhood.

    <h2>READ:</h2>America's Disappeared: Secret Imprisonment, Detainees, and the "War on Terror"</font>
    <img src="http://a1204.g.akamai.net/7/1204/1401/04031518011/images.barnesandnoble.com/images/7510000/7517582.jpg">

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2005
  21. tehuti

    tehuti Guest

    Just for the title, I had to post this op/ed.

    Torture Chicks Gone Wild

    By the time House Republicans were finished with him, Bill Clinton must have thought of a thong as a torture device.

    For the Bush administration, it actually is.

    A former American Army sergeant who worked as an Arabic interpreter at Gitmo has written a book pulling back the veil on the astounding ways female interrogators used a toxic combination of sex and religion to try to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Cuba. It's not merely disgusting. It's beyond belief.

    The Bush administration never worries about anything. But these missionaries and zealous protectors of values should be worried about the American soul. The president never mentions Osama, but he continues to use 9/11 as an excuse for American policies that bend the rules and play to our worst instincts.

    "I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the former sergeant, Erik R. Saar, 29, told The Associated Press. The A.P. got a manuscript of his book, deemed classified pending a Pentagon review.

    What good is it for President Bush to speak respectfully of Islam and claim Iraq is not a religious war if the Pentagon denigrates Islamic law - allowing its female interrogators to try to make Muslim men talk in late-night sessions featuring sexual touching, displays of fake menstrual blood, and parading in miniskirt, tight T-shirt, bra and thong underwear?

    It's like a bad porn movie, "The Geneva Monologues." All S and no M.

    The A.P. noted that "some Guantánamo prisoners who have been released say they were tormented by 'prostitutes.' "

    Mr. Saar writes about what he calls "disturbing" practices during his time in Gitmo from December 2002 to June 2003, including this anecdote related by Paisley Dodds, an A.P. reporter:

    A female military interrogator who wanted to turn up the heat on a 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before 9/11 removed her uniform top to expose a snug T-shirt. She began belittling the prisoner - who was praying with his eyes closed - as she touched her breasts, rubbed them against the Saudi's back and commented on his apparent erection.

    After the prisoner spat in her face, she left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist suggested she tell the prisoner that she was menstruating, touch him, and then shut off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.

    "The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," Mr. Saar recounted, adding: "She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee. As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred. She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward," breaking out of an ankle shackle.

    "He began to cry like a baby," the author wrote, adding that the interrogator's parting shot was: "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

    A female civilian contractor kept her "uniform" - a thong and miniskirt - on the back of the door of an interrogation room, the author says.

    Who are these women? Who allows this to happen? Why don't the officers who allow it get into trouble? Why do Rummy and Paul Wolfowitz still have their jobs?

    The military did not deny the specifics, but said the prisoners were treated "humanely" and in a way consistent "with legal obligations prohibiting torture." However the Bush White House is redefining torture these days, the point is this: Such behavior degrades the women who are doing it, the men they are doing it to, and the country they are doing it for.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to squeeze information out of detainees. But isn't it simply more effective to throw them in isolation and try to build some sort of relationship?

    I doubt that the thong tease works as well on inmates at Gitmo as it did on Bill Clinton in the Oval Office.

  22. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <font face="verdana" size="4" color="#000066">
    Here is the link to the Bybee Memo which was the "opinion" that the bush junta use to CYA-(Cover Your Ass) as they violated US law and gave the specific orders to US military officers and private torture contracters to <font size="2" color="#ff0000">these are their own words</font>"Take The Gloves Off" and torture & abuse detainees.
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="1">
    <a href="http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Feb-06-Thu-2003/photos/bybee.jpg">
    <img src="http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Feb-06-Thu-2003/photos/bybee1.jpg" vspace="5"></a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<img src="http://www.geobop.com/education/911/images/mine/bush/nazi.jpg"><br>
    </font><b><font face="Arial">Jay S. Bybee</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> <br>
    </font></b><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="1">AP Photo</font>
    <font size="5"><b><a target="_blank" href="http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/doj/bybee80102mem.pdf">
    THE BYBEE TORTURE MEMO</a></b></font></font>

    <hr noshade size="12" color="#FF0000"> </hr>

    <font face="Century Gothic, Trebuchet MS, arial unicode ms, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0000FF" size="4"><b>The quote below from former President Dwight D. Eisenhower has been removed from the public schools in the RepubliKlan controlled states of Tennessee, Louisiana, South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi . <font color="#ff0000">FASCISM IS HERE GUYS</b></font></font>
    <table border="5" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="650" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="4" bordercolorlight="#FF0000" bordercolordark="#FF0000"><tr><td width="300" bgcolor="#000000">
    <img src="http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1960/1101600104_400.jpg" width="300" height="395"></td><td bgcolor="#000000">&nbsp;<p><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Arial" size="4">&quot;I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, as only one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidiy . Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, from those who are cold and are not clothed.&nbsp; The world in arms is not spending money alone.&nbsp; It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.&quot; </font></p> <p>&nbsp;</p><center><font color="Black" face="Times New Roman,Times"><b><i><font color="#FFFFFF" size="3">President Dwight D. Eisenhower</font></i></b></font></center><p>&nbsp;</td></tr>

    <hr noshade size="12" color="#FF0000"> </hr>

    :( :( :( :( :( :(
  23. tehuti

    tehuti Guest

    Detainees Accuse Female Interrogators

    Pentagon Inquiry Is Said to Confirm Muslims' Accounts of Sexual Tactics at Guantanamo

    By Carol D. Leonnig and Dana Priest
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Thursday, February 10, 2005; Page A01

    Female interrogators repeatedly used sexually suggestive tactics to try to humiliate and pry information from devout Muslim men held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a military investigation not yet public and newly declassified accounts from detainees.

    The prisoners have told their lawyers, who compiled the accounts, that female interrogators regularly violated Muslim taboos about sex and contact with women. The women rubbed their bodies against the men, wore skimpy clothes in front of them, made sexually explicit remarks and touched them provocatively, at least eight detainees said in documents or through their attorneys.

    A wide-ranging Pentagon investigation, which has not yet been released, generally confirms the detainees' allegations, according to a senior Defense Department official familiar with the report. While isolated accounts of such tactics have emerged in recent weeks, the new allegations and the findings of the Pentagon investigation indicate that sexually oriented tactics may have been part of the fabric of Guantanamo interrogations, especially in 2003.

    The inquiry uncovered numerous instances in which female interrogators, using dye, pretended to spread menstrual blood on Muslim men, the official said. Separately, in court papers and public statements, three detainees say that women smeared them with blood.

    The military investigation of U.S. detention and interrogation practices worldwide, led by Vice Adm. Albert T. Church III, confirmed one case in which an Army interrogator took off her uniform top and paraded around in a tight T-shirt to make a Guantanamo detainee uncomfortable, and other cases in which interrogators touched the detainees suggestively, the senior Pentagon official said.

    The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the report has not yet been made public, said the fake blood was used on Muslim men before they intended to pray, because some Muslims believe that "if a woman touches him prior to prayer, then he's dirty and can't pray." Muslim men also believe that contact with women other than their wives diminishes religious purity.

    Defense Department officials said they have reprimanded two female interrogators for such tactics. It is unclear whether military personnel, employees of other agencies or private contractors were involved.

    The attorney interviews of detainees are the result of a Supreme Court decision last summer that gave the captives access to lawyers and the opportunity to challenge their incarceration in U.S. courts.

    In previous documents, detainees have complained of physical abuse, including routine beatings, painful shackling, and exposure to extremes of hot and cold. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld insisted then that detainees were treated "humanely," and Pentagon officials said terrorists were trained to fabricate torture allegations.

    Some of the accounts resemble the sexual aspects of the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at the U.S. prison at Abu Ghraib. Photographs that became public last year showed a servicewoman there holding naked prisoners on a leash and posing next to a pile of naked prisoners.

    Pentagon officials said yesterday that wearing skimpy clothing or engaging in provocative touching and banter would be inappropriate interrogation techniques.

    "I don't see that as being authorized by secretary of defense's approved interrogation techniques for Guantanamo," said Col. David McWilliams, a spokesman for the U.S. Southern Command in Miami, which oversees operations at Guantanamo Bay.

    McWilliams said it is premature to comment on whether the detainee allegations are credible until a second military investigation that focuses on Guantanamo Bay abuse allegations is complete. The inquiry, which began in early January after the release of documents in which FBI agents said they witnessed abuse, is scheduled to be completed this month.

    "That's exactly why we're doing an investigation," McWilliams said. "We're going to establish the facts and the truth."

    Church's report found that interrogators used sexually oriented tactics and harassment to shock or offend Muslim prisoners, the senior Pentagon official said. The official said that the military would not condone "sexual activity" during interrogation, but that good interrogators "take initiative and are a little creative."

    "They are trying to find the key that will get someone to talk to them. Using things that are culturally repulsive is okay as long as it doesn't extend to something prohibited by the Geneva Conventions."

    Attorneys for detainees scoffed at the Pentagon's insistence that the military can fairly investigate its own personnel. They noted that the Defense Department last fall initially dismissed torture allegations, insisting that detainees were trained at terrorist camps to lodge false claims.

    Even detainee lawyers doubted that interrogators would spread menstrual blood on prisoners when a recently released British detainee first made the allegation in early 2004. A month ago, a Pentagon spokesman confirmed it had verbally reprimanded one female interrogator who, in early 2003, had smeared red dye from a marker on a detainee's shirt and told him it was blood.

    In a yet-to-be-published book, former Army translator Erik Saar said he saw a female interrogator smear red dye on a Saudi man's face, telling him it was blood. Saar's account was first reported by the Associated Press last month. And Mamdouh Habib, an Australian man released from Guantanamo Bay last month, said he was strapped down while a woman told him she was "menstruating" on his face.

    One lawyer, Marc Falkoff, said in an interview that when a Yemeni client told him a few weeks ago about an incident involving menstrual blood, "I almost didn't even write it down." He said: "It seemed crazy, like something out of a horror movie or a John Waters film. Now it doesn't seem ludicrous at all."

    Some of the newly declassified accounts of detainees evoke scenes from a rock music video. German detainee Murat Kurnaz told his lawyer that three women in lacy bras and panties strutted into the interrogation room where he was sitting in chains. They cooed about how attractive he was and suggested "they could have some fun," he said.

    When Kurnaz averted his eyes, he said, one woman sat on his lap, another rubbed her breasts against his back and massaged his chest and a third squatted near his crotch. He head-butted the woman behind him, he said, knocking her off him. All three ran out and a team of soldiers stormed in and beat him, he said.

    Detainee lawyers likened the tactics to Nazis shaving the beards of orthodox Jews or artists dunking a crucifix in urine to shock Christians. "They're exploiting religious beliefs to break them down, to destroy them," said Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents several dozen detainees. "What they're doing, it reminds me of a pornographic Web site -- it's like the fantasy of all these S&M clubs."

    Falkoff said some of his clients have also been threatened with rape by male interrogators.

    One soldier told another detainee, Muktar Warafi, that he had to start telling the truth or he would be raped, according to Falkoff's notes of the interview. When he left the room, another person immediately came into the room and told Warafi: "That interrogator is new and doesn't know the rules. We apologize on his behalf. Now let's talk."

    Yasein Esmail, a Yemeni detainee, said he had been interrogated more than 100 times since being "kidnapped" in a marketplace in Kabul, Afghanistan, and brought to Guantanamo Bay. He recounted to his lawyer that when he refused to talk in one interview, a female soldier entered wearing a tight T-shirt.

    "Why aren't you married?" she reportedly asked Esmail. " You are a young man and have needs. What do you like?"

    Esmail said "she bent down with her breasts on the table and her legs almost touching" him. "Are you going to talk," she asked, "or are we going to do this for six hours?"

  24. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    Bump to save thread from auto-deletion.
  25. Greed

    Greed Active Member Registered

    U.N. Rights Body Rejects Call for Guantanamo Probe

    U.N. Rights Body Rejects Call for Guantanamo Probe
    2 hours, 14 minutes ago

    GENEVA (Reuters) - The United States comfortably defeated a call to the U.N.'s top human rights body on Thursday to launch a probe into alleged violations at Guantanamo Bay.

    The United Nations Commission on Human Rights rejected by 22 votes to 8, with 23 abstentions, a resolution brought by Cuba calling for the setting up of a special U.N. investigator for the detention center at a U.S. naval base on its territory.

    European Union states on the 53-state commission sided with the United States in rejecting the resolution, saying that Washington was already in discussions with existing U.N. investigators about possible visits to the prison.

    The United States holds over 500 alleged suspects in its declared war on terrorism at Guantanamo with many detainees having been there for more than three years.

    Washington calls prisoners sent to Guantanamo enemy combatants and says that they are not entitled to the rights accorded to prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.

    Human rights activists have accused the United States of condemning Guantanamo prisoners to indefinite detention in a "legal black hole," and note that some former detainees have said they were tortured by U.S. personnel at the base.

    Cuban ambassador Jorge Ivan Mora Godoy, whose resolution was seconded by Syria, North Korea, Libya and Belarus, said the move aimed to "put an end to the impunity and conspiratorial silence" over one of the "gravest chapters of massive and flagrant violations of human rights in recent history."

    The United States called the move by Cuba "ironic," because Havana has itself consistently refused to allow visits by special U.N. rights investigators.

    Acknowledging that the situation of prisoners at Guantanamo "raised issues," U.S. delegate Lino Piedra said that the U.S. judiciary system was already showing its independence in monitoring respect for prisoners' rights there.

    Dutch ambassador Ian de Jong, speaking for the EU, said that the bloc saw no need for a separate investigation because the United States was already in discussions with the U.N. about allowing special rights investigators to visit Guantanamo.

    Canada abstained in the vote for a similar reason. But both Ottawa's delegate Ian Ferguson and de Jong said that they hoped Washington would agree to the U.N. visits to Guantanamo soon.

    The commission concludes its annual six-week session on Friday.

  26. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    <font face="verdana" size="4" color="#333333">

    "...26 prisoners have died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 -- in what Army and Navy investigators have concluded or suspect were acts of criminal homicide."

    "...killing prisoners of war, presumably in the act of torture, is an inexcusable outrage. The fact that Congress has just shrugged this off, and no senior official or officer has been fired, is a travesty. This administration is for ''ownership'' of everything except responsibility."

    <hr noshade color="#FF0000" size="12"></hr>

    <img src="http://proquest.umi.com/i/pub/7818.gif"><br>

    <font face="arial black" size="5" color="#D90000">
    George W. to George W.</font>

    <font face="arial unicode ms, microsoft sans serif" color="#000000" size="3">
    <b>Thomas L. Friedman
    Mar 24, 2005. pg. A.23</b>

    Of all the stories about the abuse of prisoners of war by American soldiers and C.I.A. agents, surely none was more troubling and important than the March 16 report by my Times colleagues Douglas Jehl and Eric Schmitt that at least 26 prisoners have died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 -- in what Army and Navy investigators have concluded or suspect were acts of criminal homicide.

    You have to stop and think about this: We killed 26 of our prisoners of war. In 18 cases, people have been recommended for prosecution or action by their supervising agencies, and eight other cases are still under investigation. That is simply appalling. Only one of the deaths occurred at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, reported Jehl and Schmitt -- ''showing how broadly the most violent abuses extended beyond those prison walls and contradicting early impressions that the wrongdoing was confined to a handful of members of the military police on the prison's night shift.''

    Yes, I know war is hell and ugliness abounds in every corner. I also understand that in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, we are up against a vicious enemy, which, if it had the power, would do great harm to our country. You do not deal with such people with kid gloves. But killing prisoners of war, presumably in the act of torture, is an inexcusable outrage. The fact that Congress has just shrugged this off, and no senior official or officer has been fired, is a travesty. This administration is for ''ownership'' of everything except responsibility.

    President Bush just appointed Karen Hughes, his former media adviser, to head up yet another U.S. campaign to improve America's image in the Arab world. I have a suggestion: Just find out who were the cabinet, C.I.A. and military officers on whose watch these 26 homicides occurred and fire them. That will do more to improve America's image in the Arab-Muslim world than any ad campaign, which will be useless if this sort of prisoner abuse is shrugged off. Republicans in Congress went into overdrive to protect the sanctity of Terri Schiavo's life. But they were mute when it came to the sanctity of life for prisoners in our custody. Such hypocrisy is not going to win any P.R. battles.

    By coincidence, while following this prisoner abuse story, I've been reading ''Washington's Crossing,'' the outstanding book by the Brandeis historian David Hackett Fischer about how George Washington and his troops rescued the American Revolution after British forces and German Hessian mercenaries had routed them in the early battles around New Jersey.

    What is particularly moving is one of Mr. Fischer's concluding sections, ''An American Way of War,'' in which he contrasts how Washington dealt with prisoners of war with how the British and Hessian forces did: ''According to the 'the laws' of European war, quarter was the privilege of being allowed to surrender and to become a prisoner. By custom and tradition, soldiers in Europe believed that they had a right to extend quarter or deny it. In these 'laws of war,' no captive had an inalienable right to be taken prisoner, or even to life itself.''

    American attitudes were very different. ''With some exceptions, American leaders believed that quarter should be extended to all combatants as a matter of right. Americans were outraged when quarter was denied to their soldiers.'' In one egregious incident, at the battle at Drake's Farm, British troops murdered all seven of Washington's soldiers who had surrendered, crushing their brains with muskets.

    ''The Americans recovered the mutilated corpses and were shocked,'' wrote Mr. Fischer. The British commander simply denied responsibility. ''The words of the British commander, as much as the acts of his men,'' wrote Mr. Fischer, ''reinforced the American resolve to run their own war in a different spirit. Washington ordered that Hessian captives would be treated as human beings with the same rights of humanity for which Americans were striving. The Hessians were amazed to be treated with decency and even kindness. At first they could not understand it.'' The same policy was extended to British prisoners.

    In concluding his book, Mr. Fischer wrote lines that President Bush would do well to ponder: George Washington and the American soldiers and civilians fighting alongside him in the New Jersey campaign not only reversed the momentum of a bitter war, but they did so by choosing ''a policy of humanity that aligned the conduct of the war with the values of the Revolution. They set a high example, and we have much to learn from them.''

  27. TOOSXY4U

    TOOSXY4U Guest

    You Know If Thats True, Its A Damn Shame That They Are Using These Guys Beleifs In Keeping Their Hearts And Body Pure For Their Wives, Against Them. What Kind Of Tactic Is That. And Those Bitches That Are Participating In The Nonsense Are A Buch Of Fuckin Whores.if The Prisoners Werent So Spooked Out,they Would Practice What They Preach About Allah Being Merciful And Forgiving.god Knows His Creation, And Knows His/her Weaknesses. The Erection Is Involuntary Just Ask For Forgivness. God Is Most Merciful To Your Circumstances.
  28. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    <iframe width="780" height="1500" src="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4578627.stm" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  29. tian

    tian Active Member Registered

    I don't mean to sound cruel, but I ask you: what "heart and body pure for their wives" is that? Did not the Islamic terrorists who murdered all of those people in New York used to frequent strip clubs down in Florida? Is it not the truth that right now pornography in Baghdad is such a big seller that it's getting ridiculous? There's a lot of hypocrisy, I'm telling you, because these "chaste" terrorists are killing themselves with the promise that they will go to paradise and be with 70 virgins....

  30. TOOSXY4U

    TOOSXY4U Guest

  31. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    Unless one is a Muslim, don't you think its a matter for <u>Muslims</u> to define what is and what isn't a "Real Muslim" by what ever "True Definition" they have ???

    I agree that people need to understand the difference, but shouldn't the distinction first be made and articulated to world by Muslims ??? If they don't forcefully do that, isn't it reasonable to assume at least their tacit agreement with the extremists ???

  32. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

  33. QueEx

    QueEx Well-Known Member Super Moderator

    <iframe width="780" height="900" src="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4716280.stm" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  34. muckraker10021

    muckraker10021 Superstar ***** BGOL Investor

    All the Abu pixs and videos are below

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  35. hustleman08

    hustleman08 Active Member BGOL Investor

    If these guys weren't terrorists when they came in...they are sure gonna be terrorists when they get out

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