Brown Vs. Board Of Education Has. For All Intents, Just Been Gutted
- Thread starter Ultramagnetic
- Start date
Obadiah Plainman said:
Since I didn't bother to clarify my statement, let me do that now.
Before de-segregation, we depended heavily on each other because whites did not allow for much access to their businesses. Not only did we own businesses, but we also manufactured many of our own products back then. We made our own clothes and sold them. We made our own shoes. We grew our own fruits and vegetables and owned our own stores. We didn't have much, but at the very least, we as a community were fairly self sufficient. We taught our own kids and we founded universities. We did for ourselves. However broken and segmented it may have been, we did for ourselves.
Desegregation changed that. It was cheaper to buy from white folks. We stopped supporting our own. We integrated into schools and universities that did not want us and those same institutions of "learning" convinced as many blacks as they possibly could that we were limited in our capacity to learn and our potential to be anything other than skilled or unskilled labor. For all the opportunity we gained, it seems we lost so much more.
That's what I meant by "desegregation was the worse thing to happen to Black people."
I understand fully where you're coming from. I just wish we could have kept the same spirit of community we had at that time. If we would have concentrated on build our community instead of integrating into theirs, we may have had a longer, more brutal fight - but it may have been worth it.
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I don't believe the current set-up of how schools are funded is effective. Because on a state and municipal level its never equal. And since the Bush Administration and the "Leave A Child Behind Act" the federal funding has been skewed also. I think a total over-haul is needed in the way schools are funded with most of the monies coming from the Federal government and divided equally per student throughout the country. Even if this means certain taxes being moved from states hand to federal hands and those taxes being strictly allocated to education.
theblast said:
I like reading what you've said here, 2 America's, sounds fun sounds great.
One full of self sufficient blacks living and prospering within another much larger nation. A utopia of sorts, almost like the Amish right? This did exist to a degree in the early 20 century, and was later wiped out by the larger less tolerant nation.
Unless we are willing to pack up and leave we need to deal with the reality of what exist, not unattainable fantasies. The fact is we are integrated by simply having the rights of any American citizen, and as citizens we need not be afraid to exercise those rights.
In my opinion inorder to attain better education in the black neighborhood, we need to compete with suburban communities to keep those educated blacks (tax base, mentors), we need to encourage teachers to care more(stop blaming kids for being kids). Parents need to be instructed on how to help educate their kids. And most importantly the community as a whole needs to be more involved in decisions.
kayanation said:
Yea! I'm quoting the whole thing cause all this shit is right! 'nuff said!
Good points being made throughout thread. My position is now that brown has been effectively reversed we need to focus on funding broken down into 2 distinct efforts:
1. a seperate pot of money to bring schools up to current standards ( I'm talking the bricks and mortar shit.)
2. a baseline amount to be spent on each student per year then take into account the circumstances of each school to add an additional amount on top of the baseline. This takes into account past funding shortages that urban schools experienced and special needs students until they catch up academically.
This should be about right for another decade more or less then reopen the discussion to see if we're where we want to be with our kids. Of course there would be frequent evaluations and adjustments made if needed during this time and those tasked with doing this will be held accountable if they fuck up. No more giving a brother/sister a break cause they black.
1. a seperate pot of money to bring schools up to current standards ( I'm talking the bricks and mortar shit.)
2. a baseline amount to be spent on each student per year then take into account the circumstances of each school to add an additional amount on top of the baseline. This takes into account past funding shortages that urban schools experienced and special needs students until they catch up academically.
This should be about right for another decade more or less then reopen the discussion to see if we're where we want to be with our kids. Of course there would be frequent evaluations and adjustments made if needed during this time and those tasked with doing this will be held accountable if they fuck up. No more giving a brother/sister a break cause they black.
From what I have heard, when Brown v Board banned segregation and schools were forced to integrate, it hasten white flight to the suburbs. It destroyed the tax base of the inner city schools and created the present system today. Therefore, public schools should be funded at the state level with income taxes and sales taxes, especially if their is a state constitutional amendment on this matter.
You can't force integration on people, if somebody doesn't want to live next to other races or people, than let them do it. However, it shouldn't affect the funding of schools in the State. I don't think Brown v Board dealt with this issue, progress is not sending minorities to "white" school districts.
You can't force integration on people, if somebody doesn't want to live next to other races or people, than let them do it. However, it shouldn't affect the funding of schools in the State. I don't think Brown v Board dealt with this issue, progress is not sending minorities to "white" school districts.
J
JUju2005
Guest
Dear Cracker:
Cut the bullshit, just send us back to Africa if you don’t want us here.
Cut the bullshit, just send us back to Africa if you don’t want us here.
The two Justices apointed by Dubaya and that uncle tom ass Clrance Thomas............ 
This is why its so important to vote.. I know Dubaya had help to win the election, but if 1,000 people would have gotten off of their lazy asses in FL in 2000 to vote for Al Gore we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.. Dont make the mistake again in 2008. EVERYONE needs to vote.
As for folks that have the "My vote doesn't count so i'm not gonna vote attitude," Every vote counts and look at what happens when you dont use them properly.
This is why its so important to vote.. I know Dubaya had help to win the election, but if 1,000 people would have gotten off of their lazy asses in FL in 2000 to vote for Al Gore we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.. Dont make the mistake again in 2008. EVERYONE needs to vote.
As for folks that have the "My vote doesn't count so i'm not gonna vote attitude," Every vote counts and look at what happens when you dont use them properly.
TRUFICTION said:
One of my all time favorite scenes...
Question - let's say that I am a locality that decides to dedicate more funds to my schools through higher taxes. Would that be ok with your suggestion ?DarkCity said:
COINTELPRO said:
I agree cointel in a way B-vs-Be caused the problem in a way...
but it still was one of the greatest decisions in history that opened the doors for a lot of people myself included...
I dont think that B vs Be has been reversed in a sense. i think that this is an extension of it...the ruling basically says now you can't discriminate one way or the other, this ruling killed affirmative action or the remnants of it but it doesn't kill B vs Be...in a way it advances it now the standard applies to all legally as it always did but there its reinforced...
there is a couple schools in new orleans that have the parents fighting to get their children in and this scenario has been played over and over again white kids can't get in, cuz the blacks and asians have all the spots...blacks can't get their children in and want to bring up racism/classism...
they way that this school admits its children is by accepting a certain but majority percentage of it's district kids and open the rest up to city -wide competetive admission... the school is in a primarily white nieghborhood but six blocks away from the school in any direction and you have the 'hood so its a far mix...but they still can't keep people happy
for those in the N.O, I am talking about Lusher
Fuckallyall said:
Yes I think that should be a valid solution, that's the problem that I have with most people are quick to say taht there is no funding for schools they are not putting any money into the schools but when the issue of raisng taxes to get the money to pay for the school system arrive most people say no...
and it's like that for all social services people want the best in the world but dont want to pay the price
If you took schools out of the property tax equation, it will make housing more affordable.
The government puts the burden on your home and if you can't pay, it gets taken away by them. What if my incomes drops and I can't afford the property taxes for the school? You don't want the government taxing your house, let them find another way without the threat of your property being taken away by the government. Income and Sales Tax doesn't involve the government getting involve with your property and reflect your current resources to pay.
The current property tax system is one of the stupidest form of taxation ever created by the government.
The government puts the burden on your home and if you can't pay, it gets taken away by them. What if my incomes drops and I can't afford the property taxes for the school? You don't want the government taxing your house, let them find another way without the threat of your property being taken away by the government. Income and Sales Tax doesn't involve the government getting involve with your property and reflect your current resources to pay.
The current property tax system is one of the stupidest form of taxation ever created by the government.
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Those with houses are more likely to have kids in those schools and are most likely to benefit from a good school system when they go to sell thier house.COINTELPRO said:
And what would happen when the people are faced with a staggering increase in income and sale taxes that would be needed to implement your plan? I could read the headline now "POOR MADE TO PAY FOR TAX CUT FOR RICH HOMEOWNERS !!! What you are suggesting is way too close to making those who use the services pay for the services. This society is into cost shifting, not ponying up.
dacrazydeafdawg said:
As always...the 'Men' on this board continue to impress me with their commentary. Much respect to you all for you wisdom and insights!!!
The truth is this...WE DONT NEED 'BLACK SUPER HEROES (JACKSON/SHARPTON)!!!! We have always had the power to do for ourselves. We choose to sit back and let others speak/decide for us...or think that they speak for us. Jackson/Sharpton are well past their prime, and are not taken seriously in this country anymore.
We as parents need to ban together; go to the local Board of Education; demand an accountability of the monies ear-marked for the schools; and then FIRE EVERY LIVING ASS THAT SITS ON THAT BOARD!!!![/B] Because it is obvious to me that they have squandered the monies on things that have nothing to do with improviing the educational opportunities for our children.
Here in DC, the F...ing Nation's Capitol,the public schools is such a joke that Charter Schools are popping up everyday. School books are late being ordered...if they ever show up at all. The schools are in such deplorable condition that it would take decades to fix the many problems. The monies have been sqaundered so bad, that the president of the teacher's union was indicted, and when she was arrested at her home...he condo looked like the showroom of CostCo and Circuit City. Hell...she was paying her drive over $100K annually just to drive her old ass around. I say again FIRE EVERY LIVING ASS THAT SITS ON THAT BOARD!!!! This crap would not be so prevalent if OUR community would stand up, instead of looking to people like Jackson/Sharpton...who ordained them as the annointed ones to speak for our people?
Yes...Public schools are funded by tax dollars and by the number of kids attending the school(s); but if parents threatened to take their kids out of the schools, I am sure that we all would see things improving very quickly. MONEY TALKS...and parents have to take a more active role in their kids educations, as well as bettering their neighborhoods.
With all of the power and clout within the African-American community, why do we let the B vs B decision frighten us? Screw them!!! We can do much better on our own if we just get off of our knees and take responsibility for our own destiny.
Check out "The Curse of Willie Lynch" by James Rollins...It has an excellent chapter on the current state of education, and worth reading.
Thank you for allowing me this time and forum.
TRUFICTION said:
K
kappaman4
Guest
BENBRIZZLE said:
I completely disagree. In my city(Montgomery), and if Bham Brotha sees this, he'll agree with me, this will only encourage further "white flight" to the burbs, taking their school money with them. Here, all 4 public high schools are majority black, when maybe 10-15 years ago, it was two black, two white. The white folks have moved their kids to private schools (all on one side of town), and now the city and county are going to build a new high school on that side of town to accomidate, along with rebuilding one MB middle school and one MB high school. There are cities in the tri-county area that are exploring the creation of their own school systems to break away from the county (Millbrook almost put it to a vote 2 years ago, Prattville has been thinking about it for 5 years now.). It's not the fact that they want a choice of where to go, they want everyone to go to school where they live. It's called neighborhood zoning.....those white folks up in Seattle are tired of seeing minorities succeed off of their tax dollars, and now have the ammo to change the game in their favor again. The GOP...enemy of the black man since Reconstruction
Ultramagnetic said:
When did the "Legend of Brown vs The Board of Ed" actually take place?
Schools have and will seemingly always be, Seperate and Unequally funded! If you check out some YEAR BOOKS from predominantly AfriKidknapped Americans schools you will see learning, students behaving, studying biology, algebra, music, etc. There were a few Books and Brunson Burners.
They took care of what they had, while todays kids destroy books, vandalize labs, and even WATER Fountains! They didn't give us ISHT then and today there ain't ISHT either! Parents spend & go to All Star Week $600, the Club($100), and buy $40,000 vehicles on $26,000 JOBS(UnSalaried) with 2 kids living Permanently in Temporay Rent Controlled Projects, but do not attend FREE PTA, FREE Awards Ceremonies, or FREE Town Hall Meetings. Priceless!
One major difference I notice today is that the MAJORITY of (unlike only a few from back then) Afrikidknapped American children today are ALLOWED to and in some cases are Encouraged to behave like Savages unchecked by PUNK ASS Citizens PERIOD! Without a sense of Afrikidknapped American Pride, Self Worth as a people, and Regard for Quality of Life we stand little chance of becoming stronger as a people! Many if not most of our men have already sold their souls for drugs, pussy, and power in the name of the ALMIGHTY Dollar!
We have a right to Party just like every other ethnic group , but NEED TO BUILD ON THE FOUNDATIONS OF OUR ANCESTORS AND NOT JUST KEEP TEARING ISHT DOWN. My, how the "OTHER" Afrikidknapped Immigrants who come here and excell while we continue to hustle backwards. Harriet Tubman is probably turnin in her grave!
Let me ask the question since it doesn't seem to be anyone pointing out the obvious. What was the question to be decided in the Supreme court that lead to this?
Anybody know?
Not from the responses as far as I can tell.
So let me ask you the question that was decided on.
You live in a town where your kids school is a few blocks away. Nice school, you know some of the teachers, the kids can even walk home. He's on the football team, she's an honor student.
Now the state comes in and tells you at the end of the month, your kid will now be forced to attend a school in a not so nice neighborhood, or a nice neighborhood but it's a school 15 miles away.
It's in a town, you've never heard of and the reason your kid has to go to this lily white school is to balance the racial makeup. He cannot play sport because his grades are not meeting requirements, she becomes just another girl with good grades.
What do you do?
That was the question.
-VG
Anybody know?
Not from the responses as far as I can tell.
So let me ask you the question that was decided on.
You live in a town where your kids school is a few blocks away. Nice school, you know some of the teachers, the kids can even walk home. He's on the football team, she's an honor student.
Now the state comes in and tells you at the end of the month, your kid will now be forced to attend a school in a not so nice neighborhood, or a nice neighborhood but it's a school 15 miles away.
It's in a town, you've never heard of and the reason your kid has to go to this lily white school is to balance the racial makeup. He cannot play sport because his grades are not meeting requirements, she becomes just another girl with good grades.
What do you do?
That was the question.
-VG
COINTELPRO said:
School districts are funded locally in these parts. More affluent areas devote many more thousands of dollars per child per year, and of course they have superior facilities. They also attract the best teachers.
You are free to do as you please, but I sent my kid to the most affluent school district in the Detroit metropolitan area. And lo and behold, She graduated summa cum--motherfucking-laude and she now has a full academic scholarship to a top tier university.
FYI "Than" and "then" have entirely disparate meanings.
VegasGuy said:
Your viewpoint is one of self in the "now".
We are trying to identify the end goal.
You are describing the now scenario where the problem exists.
Get it?
What you are alluding to is putting on a bandage but not treating the wound.
We know where your loyalties lie anyway so your response isn't surprising.........
Fuckallyall said:
If your a locality and your citizens decided to put more money into a school then no one can complain. It would be more like a private donation. My problem isn't so much as local taxation its state and federal in the form they are now. Of course in a more affluent neighborhood your going to have more affluent schools but that should be because of the local not state and federal money. And in most cases those people send their kids to private schools yet they still have to pay taxes that fund education therefore contributing to the community.
But as we all know throwing money at schools doesn't do shit as far as education is concerned. The only thing that will benefit education is if parents become more involved in the child's school life. I understand this is hard for most low-income parents because they work 24-7 my mom was the same way and my grades reflected it.
My Thing is if you want to improve the quality of life for you and others around you. STOP MAKING BABIES. People just need to get that is the root of most of our problems. In most cases Young Mother = Single Mother = Overtime = Unsupervised Child = Young Mother
DarkCity said:
And I have to disagree with that lol.
There are two types of teachers.
1. Teachers who believe in cooperative methods to better a classroom (these are contemporary).
2. Teachers who believe in competition within the classroom (traditional).
Teachers are being taught by colleges to abide by #1 which is more of a socialist method.
Private schools are more traditional and will use method #2.
Teachers types #1 will function well in environments "where hands get dirty" (as you put it) in neighborhoods where a teacher has to assume numerous roles other than educator (such as mother, father, counselor, social worker, and ect).
Type 2 teachers (which are in complete opposition of today's contemporary teaching methods and philosophies) function better in environments where educated parents intervene more often.
Saying that the best teachers dont chase checks is totally insulting in a capitalistic society where EVERYONE is chasing checks.
What is wrong with chasing a check?
WTF are you from Cuba?
Your statement kind of pisses me off....and says that teachers should not put a price on their training and hard work.
theblast said:
That's noble, but historically innacurate. There were communities that existed much like you describe, but MANY blacks lived at the mercy of whites during the days of segregation. What purpose does developing your own business serve if, the day it becomes too successful, it can be taken or burned to the ground. Black folks were robbed back then on the regular with NO recourse at all, either legal or moral to protect them. Black farmers had their land stolen by white suppliers that charged a higher rate for the same supplies if you were black and then forced black farmers into fucked up credit arrangements that caused them to have to sharecrop their own land. Black business owners were regularly shaken down by police and other white business owners if they appeared too successful or encroached on someone else's "assumed" client base. Black schools were generally one room K-12 shacks with limited and outdated resources. There was a HUGE rush of black in Universities AFTER desegregation. A seperate, but unequal black utopia really never existed, it's a fantasy sold by folks who just plain don't know their history (which I can't blame them for, because really, where the fuck would you learn that history?)
moblack said:
moblack said:
Bruh, I got to be real with you, the first quote pretty much solidifies that I wouldn't want you anywhere near the education of MY black kids and the second quote is pretty much negated by the first because what benefit could you be to a black child when you have already made up your mind that they don't want to learn. Your a BIG part of the problem, maybe you should have considered a nice Jr. management job at UPS over teaching.
DarkCity said:
What a lovely and altruistic sentiment. It just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. But, of course, it has no relation to the real world. As with everything else in a capitalist society, Adam Smith's invisible hand is at work in the allocation of the best teachers to districts which offer them the most attractive compensation packages. Sure, there are some excellent teachers with advanced degrees in their specialties from Ivy League colleges who choose to work in fucked up school districts bereft of networked workstations or even books. But, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Teachers, as with doctors, accountants and rodeo clowns, want to live in decent neighborhoods and send their children to quality universities just like everyone else.
leemajors said:Wow!!!!!!!!! This is the most serious shit that's happened in my lifetime as it relates to black folks. Essentially, Blacks folk have been set back 50 yrs with this decision.
How so?
This may not be Popular, but I support this decision. Im black, And im tired of our ethnicity being seen as just black folks. Or those por black folk.
Brown vs Board of Education was great for it's time. This is not a set back. It's a set back for those who dont value education. There are blacks out there that think it's for "whitey" or "Chinky". The problem now is to get the Schools funded properly and to get parents more involved with their children.
Dont give me the poor inner city kids excuse. If these mothers and fathers can hit the clubs each week. Buy the latest gadgets, keep their hair done. They can damn well send their kids to school.
Im all for racial equality. the only way to get it is for us to stop being identified soley by our race. (that will go over some folks heads.)
mc2 said:The two Justices apointed by Dubaya and that uncle tom ass Clrance Thomas............
This is why its so important to vote.. I know Dubaya had help to win the election, but if 1,000 people would have gotten off of their lazy asses in FL in 2000 to vote for Al Gore we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.. Dont make the mistake again in 2008. EVERYONE needs to vote.
As for folks that have the "My vote doesn't count so i'm not gonna vote attitude," Every vote counts and look at what happens when you dont use them properly.
Gospel According to Carlin (George Carlin)
"If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with."
I will not vote for the lesser of two evils. It is still a vote for evil.
kayanation said:
And I know where your loyalties are. Utter stupidity.
Treat what? With what? And fuck identifying the problem/end goal or whatever you think you are doing. We ALWAYS know how to identify the problem. We been doing that shit all of our fuckin' lives you dumb bitch. What I tried to do in plenty of other posts on this subject you fuck head is to identify what happens now? What do we do now?
You don't have an answer because your dumb ass only state the obvious. Brothers with the capacity to expand the dialog, contribute to A solution or direction. That's what QueEx forum does.
So shut the fuck up punk bitch! First thing out your mouth is predictable and the reason why we always get handled. Stand in the shadows until your thug ass is needed. Allow thinkers to regulate for a minute.
-VG
I totally agree with you regarding parental involvement. However, what I put as a suggestion is currently the reality to an extent. The fact is that the feds actually give less to more affluent school districts than poorer ones. Also, it is almost an invariability that the best performing school districts are below average in the cost per student payment ratio.DarkCity said:
Socialization of schools to the extent we are doing it is an abject failure. Calling for racial quotas is fucking stupid and is contrary to the argument that black kids are intellectually equal to whites by implying that blacks need to be around whites (or Asians, or latinos) in order to learn. It states that if only we have kids of different races, that we would have a better school. Bullshit. It is the quality of the child, and how much the community values education, that counts. Our fore fathers excelled in conditions that most of us would wilt under, and we can't fucking enforce the value of education to our own children ? GTFOH. Man (or woman) up. A is A and 1+1=2 anywhere. Make sure you kids are teachable, and they will learn. Period.
DarkCity said:
I agree with you regarding responsible parenthood. However, the statement I made is actually the way schools are funded. The feds will give more money to poor neighborhoods than to more affluent ones. This call for federalization of schools is doomed for failure because the several states are tasked to educate thier children.
And this whold belief that we need racial quotas for our kids to get educated says that our kids cannot learn among themselves. I do not believe that. If you send teachable kids to school, and you will get a taught child after school. We ask too many of our children to suffer the disruptive ones, and we do too much to promt our kids to act out. I don't blame them too much. I blame us. They are only children, after all.
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