Bohemian Grove

[Casual Observer]

I don't know if there was ever a tower of babel or if it was just a story.

It's a bible story. No such person, no such place no such thing.

 

[bigirl]

Cool story, but there never was a king nimrod. Nor a tower of babel.

then there was no Jesus neither nor Mary nor Joeseph nor any great flood or none of the rest.

In the Bible and in legend, Nimrod (Standard Hebrew ???????? Nimrod, Tiberian Hebrew ??????? Nimr??), son of Cush, grandson of Ham, great-grandson of Noah, was a Mesopotamian monarch and "a mighty hunter before Yahweh". He is mentioned in the Table of Nations (Genesis 10), in the First Book of Chronicles, and in the Book of Micah. In the Bible he is an obscure figure; in later interpretations, as recorded by Josephus and the rabbis who compiled the midrash, he is the subject of innumerable legends. The most prominent of these was the story that he built the Tower of Babel.
Contents
[hide]
1 Biblical accounts
2 Traditions and legends
2.1 The evil Nimrod vs. the righteous Abraham
3 Interpretations
4 A secular hero in Israel
5 Cultural references
6 References
7 External links
7.1 Text of the Midrash Raba Version
[edit]Biblical accounts

Mention of Nimrod in the Bible is rather limited. He is called the first to become "a mighty one on the earth" and "the mighty hunter before Yahweh." He is said to be the founder and king of the first empire after the Flood, and his realm is connected with the Mesopotamian towns Babylon (Babel), Uruk, Akkad, and Calneh. Owing to an ambiguity in the original Hebrew text, it is unclear whether it is he or Asshur who additionally founded Nineveh, Resen, Rehoboth-Ir and Calah, and both of these interpretations are reflected in the various English versions. (Genesis 10:8–10)
[edit]Traditions and legends

According to Hebrew traditions, he was of Mizraim by his mother, but came from Cush son of Ham and expanded Asshur which he inherited. His name has become proverbial as that of a "mighty hunter". His "kingdom" comprised Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar, otherwise known as the land of Nimrod (Genesis 10:8-10; 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:6).
Josephus says:
Now it was Nimrod who excited them to such an affront and contempt of God. He was the grandson of Ham, the son of Noah, a bold man, and of great strength of hand. He persuaded them not to ascribe it to God, as if it was through his means they were happy, but to believe that it was their own courage which procured that happiness. He also gradually changed the government into tyranny, seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence on his power…
Now the multitude were very ready to follow the determination of Nimrod, and to esteem it a piece of cowardice to submit to God; and they built a tower, neither sparing any pains, nor being in any degree negligent about the work: and, by reason of the multitude of hands employed in it, it grew very high, sooner than any one could expect; but the thickness of it was so great, and it was so strongly built, that thereby its great height seemed, upon the view, to be less than it really was. It was built of burnt brick, cemented together with mortar, made of bitumen, that it might not be liable to admit water. When God saw that they acted so madly, he did not resolve to destroy them utterly, since they were not grown wiser by the destruction of the former sinners; but he caused a tumult among them, by producing in them diverse languages, and causing that, through the multitude of those languages, they should not be able to understand one another. The place wherein they built the tower is now called Babylon, because of the confusion of that language which they readily understood before; for the Hebrews mean by the word Babel, confusion…
In the History of the Prophets and Kings by the 9th century Muslim historian al-Tabari, Nimrod has the tower built in Babil, Allah destroys it, and the language of mankind, formerly Syriac, is then confused into 72 languages. Another Muslim historian of the 13th century, Abu al-Fida relates the same story, adding that the patriarch Eber (an ancestor of Abraham) was allowed to keep the original tongue, Hebrew in this case, because he would not partake in the building.
One tradition, of unknown provenance, suggests that Nimrod was killed by a wild animal. Still another, its origin equally obscure, says that Shem killed him because he had led the people into the worship of Baal. Still another, mentioned in the Book of Jasher, ascribes his death to Esau (grandson of Abraham), who supposedly beheaded him.
According to a medieval Hungarian chronicle (Gesta Hunnorum et Hungarorum), the ancestors of Huns and Magyars (Hunor and Magor respectively) were the twin sons of Menrot (son of Tana) and Eneth. In different versions of this legend Menrot was referred to as Nimrod, the son of Kush. A very few authors (including F. Hamori, T. R. Michels) have pointed out the similarity between the names Tana and Kush with the historical Etana king of Kish, and an additional possible parallel with the Kushan Scythian ancestor Kush-Tana.
In Armenian legend, Haik, the founder of the Armenian people, defeated Nimrod in battle near Lake Van.
In the Book of Mormon, there is a story of a certain group of people that lived during the time that God confounded the language of the people of Babel. This group of people were spared from Gods judgment and were allowed to keep their language. The story tells of the group being commanded by the Lord to go down into a valley northward (from Babel) The story from the Book of Mormon reads
Ether 1:34-42
"34 And the brother of Jared being a large and mighty man, and a man highly favored of the Lord, Jared, his brother, said unto him: Cry unto the Lord, that he will not confound us that we may not understand our words.
35 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon Jared; therefore he did not confound the language of Jared; and Jared and his brother were not confounded.
36 Then Jared said unto his brother: Cry again unto the Lord, and it may be that he will turn away his anger from them who are our friends, that he confound not their language.
37 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon their friends and their families also, that they were not confounded.
38 And it came to pass that Jared spake again unto his brother, saying: Go and inquire of the Lord whether he will drive us out of the land, and if he will drive us out of the land, cry unto him whither we shall go. And who knoweth but the Lord will carry us forth into a land which is choice above all the earth? And if it so be, let us be faithful unto the Lord, that we may receive it for our inheritance.
39 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord according to that which had been spoken by the mouth of Jared.
40 And it came to pass that the Lord did hear the brother of Jared, and had compassion upon him, and said unto him:
41 Go to and gather together thy flocks, both male and female, of every kind; and also of the seed of the earth of every kind; and thy families; and also Jared thy brother and his family; and also thy friends and their families, and the friends of Jared and their families.
42 And when thou hast done this thou shalt go at the head of them down into the valley which is northward. And there will I meet thee, and I will go before thee into a land which is choice above all the lands of the earth."
Ether 2:1
"1 AND it came to pass that Jared and his brother, and their families, and also the friends of Jared and his brother and their families, went down into the valley which was northward, (and the name of the valley was Nimrod, being called after the mighty hunter) with their flocks which they had gathered together, male and female, of every kind."
(Ether 2:1)
[edit]The evil Nimrod vs. the righteous Abraham
The Bible does not mention any meeting between Nimrod and Abraham. In fact, there is a gap of seven generations between them, Nimrod being Noah's great grandson while Abraham was ten generations removed from Noah (Genesis 10,11). Nevertheless, later Jewish tradition brings the two of them together in a cataclysmic collision, a potent symbol of the cosmic confrontation between Good and Evil and specifically of Monotheism against Paganism and Idolatry. It should be noted that according to biblical chronology (Gen. 11, Gen. 25:7-8), all of the nine generations between Noah and Abraham lived to see the birth of Abraham. Thence, it is not a far stretch to assume that Nimrod, great grandson of Noah through Ham, lived to see Abraham's day, just as Salah, great grandson of Noah through Shem, lived to see the birth of Abraham, and outlived Abraham by three years.
This tradition is first attested in the writings of Pseudo-Philo (van der Toorn and van der Horst 1990, p. 19), continues in the Talmud, goes through later rabbinical writings in the Middle Ages (see [1] and is still being added to by contemporary rabbis. Searching through the Hebrew version of Google for "Nimrod" + "Abraham" (Hebrew: ????? + ????? ?????) would reveal dozens of religious treatises and tracts by Israeli rabbis, elaborating on the Abraham- Nimrod confrontation and citing it in numerous contexts.
The same confrontation is also found extensively in the Islamic Qur'an, portraying the confrontation between Nimrod, the arch-rebel against Allah's authority, and the Prophet Ibrahim (Arabic version of "Abraham"), honoured in Islam as "God's Friend". If anything, the Qur'an takes an even dimmer view of Nimrod than the Jewish one. While some Jewish sources have him repenting in the end of the tale, the Muslim ones usually depict him as obdurate to the bitter end, however many times his plots were defeated.
In some versions - as in Josephus - Nimrod is a man who sets his will against that of God. In others, he proclaims himself a god and is worshipped as such by his subjects, sometimes with his consort Semiramis worshipped as a goddess at his side. (see also Ninus)
A portent in the stars tells Nimrod and his astrologers of the impending birth of Abraham, who would put an end to idolatry. Nimrod therefore orders the killing of all newborn babies. However, Abraham's mother escapes into the fields and gives birth secretly (in some accounts, the baby Abraham is placed in a manger).
Abraham grows up and already at a young age he recognizes God and starts worshipping Him. He confronts Nimrod and tells him to his face to cease his idolatry, whereupon Nimrod orders him burned at the stake. In some versions, Nimrod has his subjects gather wood for four whole years, so as to burn Abraham in the biggest bonfire the world had seen (a story possibly inspired or confused with Nimrod's building of the Tower). Yet when the fire is lighted, Abraham walks out unscathed.
In some versions, Nimrod then challenges Abraham to battle. When Nimrod appears at the head of enormous armies, Abraham produces an army of gnats which destroys Nimrod's army. Some accounts have a gnat or mosquito enter Nimrod's brain and drive him out of his mind (a divine retribution which Jewish tradition also assigned to the Roman Emperor Titus, destroyer of the Temple in Jerusalem).
In some versions, Nimrod repents and accepts God, offering numerous sacrifices that God rejects (as with Cain). Other versions have Nimrod give to Abraham, as a reconciliatory gift, the slave Eliezer, whom some accounts describe as Nimrod's own son. (The Bible tells a lot about Eliezer, though not making any connection between him and Nimrod. He was Abraham's majordomo, entrusted with the most sensitive missions such as fetching a bride for Abraham's son, and entered Jewish tradition as the archetype of a loyal servant.)
Still, other versions have Nimrod persisting in his rebellion against God, or resuming it. Indeed, Abraham's crucial act of leaving Mesopotamia and settling in Canaan, which effectively sets the stage for the rest of the Bible, is sometimes interpreted as an escape from Nimrod's revenge. Some accounts place the building of the Tower many generations before Abraham's birth (as in the Bible, also Jubilees). In others, it is a later rebellion after Nimrod failed in his confrontation with Abraham, and in still other versions, Nimrod does not give up after the Tower fails, but goes on to try storming Heaven in person, in a chariot driven by birds.
The story attributes to Abraham elements from the story of Moses's birth (the cruel king killing innocent babies, with the midwives ordered to kill them) and from the careers of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who emerged unscathed from the fire. Nimrod is thus made to conflate the role and attributes of two archetypal cruel and persecuting kings - Nebuchadnezzar and Pharaoh. Some Jewish traditions also identified him with Cyrus whose birth according to Herodotus was accompanied by portents which made his grandfather try to kill him.
Whether or not conceived as having ultimately repented, Nimrod remained in Jewish and Islamic tradition an emblematic evil person, an archetype of an idolater and a tyrannical king. In rabbinical writings up to the present, he is almost invariably referred to as "Nimrod the Evil"(Hebrew: ????? ????), and to Muslims he is "Nimrod al-Jabbar" (The Tyrant or Thug).
The story of Abraham's confrontation with Nimrod did not remain within the confines of learned writings and religious treatises, but also conspicuously influenced popular culture. A notable example is "Quando el Rey Nimrod" ("When King Nimrod"), one of the most well-known of the folksongs in Ladino, (Judeo-Spanish), apparently written during the reign of King Alfonso X of Castile.
Beginning with the words: "When King Nimrod went out to the fields/ Looked at the heavens and at the stars/He saw a holy light in the Jewish quarter/A sign that Abraham, our father, was about to be born", the song gives a poetical account of the persecutions perpetrated by the cruel Nimrod and the miraculous birth and deeds of the saviour Abraham. (Full original text and an English translation appear in the Ladino page; see also [2], [3], [4].)
[edit]Interpretations

Though not clearly stated in the Bible, Nimrod has since ancient times traditionally been interpreted to be the one who led the people to build the Tower of Babel. Since his kingdom included the towns in Shinar, it is believed likely that it was under his direction that the building began. This is the view adopted in the Targums and later texts such as the writings of Josephus. Some extrabiblical sources, however, assert to the contrary, that he left the district before the building of the tower.
Nimrod figures in some very early versions of the history of Freemasonry, where he was said to have been one of the fraternity's founders. According to the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry: The legend of the Craft in the Old Constitutions refers to Nimrod as one of the founders of Masonry. Thus in the York MS., No. 1, we read: "At ye making of ye toure of Babell there was a Masonrie first much esteemed of, and the King of Babilon yt called Nimrod was a Mason himself and loved well Masons. However, he does not figure in the current rituals.
It is further often assumed that his rulership included war and terror, and that he was a hunter not only of animals, but also a person who used aggression against other humans. The Hebrew translated "before" in the phrase "Mighty hunter before Yahweh" is commonly analysed as meaning literally "in the Face of" in this interpretation, to suggest a certain rebelliousness in the establishment of a human government. Since some of the towns mentioned were in the territory of Assyria, which is connected to Shem's son Asshur, Nimrod is sometimes speculated to have invaded territory that did not belong to him. However, various translations of the Hebrew text leave it ambiguous as to whether the towns in Assyria were founded by Nimrod or by Asshur.
Historians and mythographers have tried to find links between Nimrod and figures from other traditions. One such identification is with Ningirsu, and Ninurta who inherited his role, the Sumerian and later Akkadian god of war, hunting, and agriculture; or Nergal, God of Death and the Plague, who was sometimes called Lugal-Amarada or Lugal-Marad or Ni-Marad. Lugal Marad name means "king of Marad," a city, whose name means "Rebellion" in Akkadian, as yet unidentified. The name Ni-Marad, in Akkadian means "Lord of Marad". The chief deity of this place, therefore, seems to have been Nergal, of whom, therefore, Lugal-Marad or Ni-Marad is another name.
Marduk (Merodach) shared attributes with these earlier gods, is also included as a possible archetype for Nimrod. Nimrod's imperial ventures described in Genesis may be based on the conquests of the Assyrian king Tukulti-Ninurta I (Dalley et al., 1998, p. 67). Alexander Hislop, in his anti-Catholic tract The Two Babylons (Chapter 2, Section II, Sub-Section I) decided that Nimrod was to be identified with Ninus, who according to Greek legend was a Mesopotamian king and husband of Semiramis (see below); with a whole host of deities throughout the Mediterranean world, and with the Persian Zoroaster. For the latter, he may have followed the identification of Nebrod (the Septuagint's transliteration of Nimrod) found in the Clementine homilies (Homily IX).
David Rohl, like Hislop, identified Nimrod with a complex of Mediterranean deities; among those he picked were Asar, Baal, Dumuzi, and Osiris. In Rohl's theory, Enmerkar the founder of Uruk was the original inspiration for Nimrod, because the story of Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta (see: [5]) bears a few similarities to the legend of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, and because the -KAR in Enmerkar means "hunter".
Someone has identified Nimrod with Resheph of northern Semitic mythology.[citation needed]
In some interpretationes graecae he was identified with the hunter Orion, and thus with the constellation Orion. At the beginning of the 20th century he was linked either with the god Marduk, or by some Gilgamesh or his predeccesor Enmerkar.
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[edit]A secular hero in Israel

The main founders and leaders of the Zionism in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Century were mostly non-religious, sometimes anti-religious. Zionist thinkers, historians and writers reinterpreted the whole of Jewish history (including, and especially, the Bible) from a secular nationalist viewpoint considerably different from and sometimes diametrically opposite to the religious Jewish tradition.
Specifically, the search went on for past historical or mythical figures who could be depicted as National Heroes, such as those which inspired the European national movements of the 19th Century. Those fitting the role were often placed on pedestals even when Jewish tradition frowned upon or strongly condemned them (for example King Omri of ancient Israel, which the Bible describes as an evil idolater but which Zionists approved of as a victorious warrior king and the founder of a strong dynasty).
Nimrod went through a similar process, which in his case can be pinpointed precisely. Sculptor Yitzchak Danziger, who was born in Germany and emigrated to then British Mandatory Palestine, created his statue "Nimrod" in 1938-1939 .
As described in the (as yet untranslated) Hebrew Wikipedia article [6], the statue is 90 centimetres high and made of Red Nubian Sandstone imported from the ruins of Petra in Jordan. It depicts Nimrod as a naked hunter, uncircumcised, carrying a bow and with a hawk on his shoulder. The style shows the influence of Ancient Egyptian statues. (See Hebrew website with a photo [7])
The unveiling of the statue caused a scandal. The Hebrew University of Jerusalem which had commissioned Danziger's statue was not happy with the result and religious circles made strong protests.
Within a few years, however, the statue was universally acclaimed as a major masterpiece of Israeli art, and has noticeably influenced and inspired the work of later sculptors, painters, writers and poets up to the present.
The Nimrod Statue was also taken up as the emblem of a cultural-political movement known as "The Cannanites" which advocated the shrugging off of the Jewish religious tradition, cutting off relations with Diaspora Jews and their culture, and adopt in its place a "Hebrew Identity" based on ancient Semitic heroic myths - such as Nimrod's. Though never gaining mass support, the movement had a considerable influence on Israeli intellectuals in the 1940s and early 1950s.
One tangible lasting result is that "Nimrod" has become a fairly common male name in present-day Israel. In the 1940s, bestowing it upon a newborn child was something of political statement. In the present generation, however, it is taken simply as a name like any other (as English-speaking parents giving their child the name "George" do not necessarily spend much thought on the legendary dragon-slaying knight who bore that name).
The above is true, of course, only for non-religious Israelis. Among the observant Orthodox Jewish community in Israel, Nimrod's traditional negative image is still very much alive, and giving his name to a child would be unthinkable. Indeed, a secularist bearing that name who "sees the light" and seeks to enter the ranks of the religious might face a firm demand by rabbis to change his name.
[edit]Cultural references

In the Divine Comedy, Dante portrays Nimrod as a giant, one of the guardians of the well containing the ninth circle of Hell. He is constantly babbling incomprehensibly, presumably a reference to the Tower of Babel.
In Voltaire's La Princesse de Babylone the three kings who want to marry the princess in the beginning of the story have to bend the bow of Nimrod (l’arc de Nembrod)
"Nimrod" was the nickname given by Edward Elgar to his collaborator August Jaeger, and consequently is the name of the movement of the composer's Enigma Variations that is dedicated to Jaeger. Jaeger (or Jäger) is the German word for hunter.
The maritime reconnaissance and submarine interdiction conversion of the De Havilland Comet jet airliner, the Hawker Siddeley Nimrod, is similarly named after the mighty hunter of the Bible.
The name took on connotations of a dolt when hunter Elmer Fudd was called "Nimrod" by Bugs Bunny in the popular Warner Bros. cartoons. Long before that, there are recorded instances of its use as a slang word to mean simply "hunter" (from the Genesis account).
In the "Days of Future Past" story arc of Marvel's X-Men series, the ultimate hunter sentinel is named Nimrod.
In the video game Shadow of the Colossus, there is a very large central tower, very reminiscent of the Tower of Babel, with a spiritual guardian within named Dormin ("Dormin" is Nimrod spelled backwards).
[edit]References

The Legacy of Mesopotamia; Stephanie Dalley et al. (Oxford, Oxford University Press, 1998)
Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery; Stephen R. Haynes (NY, Oxford University Press, 2002)
"Nimrod before and after the Bible" K. van der Toorn; P. W. van der Horst, The Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 83, No. 1. (Jan., 1990), pp. 1-29
[edit]External links

Nimrod, entry in the Jewish Encyclopedia
WebBible entry
Against World Powers: A Study of the Judeo-Christian Struggle in History and Prophecy - Modern Christian writings, redolent of apocalypticism, which follow David Rohl's view on the legends of Nimrod, but add the theory that he was an agent of Satan. Another page from this site summarizes Rohl's theory of Nimrod and Enmerkar
[edit]Text of the Midrash Raba Version
The following version of the Abraham vs. Nimrod confrontation appears in the Midrash Raba, a major compilation of Jewish Scriptural exegesis. The part relating to Genesis, in which this appears (Chapter 38, 13), is considered to date from the Sixth Century.
First stanza
"???? ????? ??????. ??? ??: ???? ???. ??? ?? ?????: ?????? ????, ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?????: ???? ????! ??? ??: ?? ??, ????? ????, ????? ?? ????? ??? ??: ???? ????! ??? ??: ?? ??, ????? ????, ?????? ?????? ??? ??: ???? ????! ??? ??: ?????? ??? ???, ????? ??????? ??? ??: ????? ??? ?????, ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? - ??? ??? ?????? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????! ??? ?? ??? ????. ???: ?? ????, ?? ???? ????? - ????? '??? ????? ???', ??? ???? ????? - ????? '??? ????? ???'. ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????, ???? ??: ??? ?? ???? ??? ???: ??? ????? ???! ?????? ????????? ????, ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????. ??? ????: ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????." (?????? ??? ?"?, ??)
(...) He [Abraham] was given over to Nimrod. [Nimrod] told him: Worship the Fire! Abraham said to him: Shall I then worship the water, which puts off the fire! Nimrod told him: Worship the water! [Abraham] said to him: If so, shall I worship the cloud, which carries the water? [Nirod] told him: Worship the cloud! [Abraham] said to him: If so, shall I worship the wind, which scatters the clouds? [Nimrod] said to him: Worship the wind! [Abraham] said to him: And shall we worship the human, who withstands the wind? Said [Nimrod] to him: You pile words upon words, I bow to none but the fire - in it shall I throw you, and let the God to whom you bow come and save you from it!
Haran [Abraham's brother] was standing there. He said [to himself]: what shall I do? If Abraham wins, I shall say: "I am of Abraham's [followers]", if Nimrod wins I shall say "I am of Nimrod's [followers]". When Abraham went into the furnace and survived, Haran was asked: "Whose [follower] are you?" and he answered: "I am Abraham's!". [Then] they took him and threw him into the furnace, and his belly opened and he died and predeceased Terach, his father.
[The Bible (Genesis 11,, 29, mentions Haran predeceasing Terach, but gives no details.]

 

[bigirl]

I don't know if there was ever a tower of babel or if it was just a story.

http://www.unmuseum.org/babel.htm

The story of the tower of Babel found in the Bible is familiar to many. Is there evidence that such a tower really existed? There are archaeological indications that it did, indeed.

In the fertile Mesopotamian plain between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, in what is now modern Iraq, is a mound, or tell, of broken mud-brick buildings and debris. This is all that remains of the ancient famed city of Babylon.

Babylon was one of a number of cities built by a succession of peoples that lived on the plain starting around 5,500 years ago. There developed a tradition in each city of building a temple in the shape of a stepped pyramid. These temples, or ziggurates, most likely honored a particular god. The people of Mesopotamia believed in many gods and often a city might have several ziggurates. Over time Babylon became the most influential city on the plain and its ziggurat, honoring the god Marduk, was built, destroyed and rebuilt until it was the tallest tower.

Archaeologists examining the remains of the city of Babylon have found what appears to be the foundation of the tower: a square of earthen embankments some three-hundred feet on each side. The tower's most splendid incarnation was probably under King Nebuchadnezzar II who lived from 605-562 BC. The King rebuilt the tower to stand 295 feet high. According to an inscription made by the king the tower was constructed of "baked brick enameled in brilliant blue." The terraces of the tower may have also been planted with flowers and trees.

Constructing ziggurats on the Mesopotamian plain was not easy. The area lacks the stone deposits the Egyptians used effectively for their timeless monuments. The wood available is mostly palm, not the best for construction, so the people used what they had in abundance: mud and straw. The bulk of the towers were constructed of crude bricks made by mixing chopped straw with clay and pouring the results into molds. After the bricks were allowed to bake in the sun they were joined in construction by using bitumen, a slimey material imported from the Iranian plateau. Bitumen was used widely as a binding and coating material throughout the Mesopotamian plain.

The tower, referred to by the Babylonians as Etemenanki, was only one of the marvels of the city. Down the street was the Hanging Gardens, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Nebuchadnezzar also had two impressive palaces inside the city. The final beginning of the end of the tower of Babel probably began around 478 BC. The city had been taken over by the Persian King Xerxes who crushed a rebellion there that year. The tower was neglected and crumbled .

Because of the use of mud-baked bricks, ziggurats needed constant maintenance. Often they had elaborate internal drainage systems to channel rain water away so that the bricks would not be eroded. If the pipes on a ziggurat were not cleaned regularly and allowed to jam the tower would slowly crumble. Ziggurats were also highly susceptible to earthquake damage. Their height amplified the effect of quake forces while the rigid, unreinforced-brick construction did not allow the structures to flex with the shaking.

Although the Tower of Babel now gone, a few lessor ziggurats still exist. The largest surviving, (although damaged) temple is now found in western Iran, in what was once the ancient land of Elam. It is located about 18 miles from the capital of Elam, a city named Susa. Built in 1250 BC by the King Untash-Napirisha it once had five levels and stood 170 feet in height.

What we know about the Tower of Babel today comes only from the little archaeological evidence found and a few ancient writings. Nebuchadnezzar described how "gold, silver and precious stones from the mountain and from the sea were liberally set into the foundations" and how to rebuild it he called on "various peoples of the Empire, from north and south, from mountains and the coasts" to help with the construction.

Even in 460 BC, after the tower had been crumbling for many years, the Greek historian Herodotus visited the tower and was very impressed. "It has a solid central tower, one furlong square, with a second erected on top of it and then a third, and so on up to eight. All eight towers can be climbed by a spiral way running around the outside, and about halfway up there are seats for those who make the journey to rest on."

Though the tower has been gone for many years, its biblical story has continued to inspire artists. It was a favorite subject during the 14th century when several well-known paintings were done. As archaeological and historical research has shown most were not truly representative of the actual building.

 

[ankhheru]

conspiracy nuts are losers with no life.

for a black man to say he doesnt believe in the goverments ability to "conspire" against its own people is utterly rediculous.

 

[Casual Observer]

then there was no Jesus neither nor Mary nor Joeseph nor any great flood or none of the rest.

I don't want to fuck with your "belief" system, but there has never been any proof of any of them either.

 

[bigirl]

I don't want to fuck with your "belief" system, but there has never been any proof of any of them either.

Rasta don't believe, rasta know. I am not any type of bible person or christian at all. Most of the world believes they are celebrating the birthday of Jesus on Dec 25 when there is more evidence to support that the date is Nimrods birthday. There is no proof they never existed neither. We weren't there, we don't know. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the great flood as in Noah though. There must be something to the old books, they must have came from somewhere . They all mention the same stuff and people.

 

[Casual Observer]

Rasta don't believe, rasta know. I am not any type of bible person or christian at all. Most of the world believes they are celebrating the birthday of Jesus on Dec 25 when there is more evidence to support that the date is Nimrods birthday. There is no proof they never existed neither. We weren't there, we don't know. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the great flood as in Noah though. There must be something to the old books, they must have came from somewhere . They all mention the same stuff and people.

So first the tower was built by nimrod, now the tower was built by nebuchadnezzar. Which is it? Or rather who was it? As for the tower built by Nebuchadnezzar, dubbed the tower of Babylon by your musem of unatural mystery, by the accounts of the old books you have so much faith in. It ain't big enough. There was no tower of babel. You know nothing. All your precious books "mention the same stuff and people" because they came from the same source.

 

[bigirl]

So first the tower was built by nimrod, now the tower was built by nebuchadnezzar. Which is it? Or rather who was it? As for the tower built by Nebuchadnezzar, dubbed the tower of Babylon by your musem of unatural mystery, by the accounts of the old books you have so much faith in. It ain't big enough. There was no tower of babel. You know nothing. All your precious books "mention the same stuff and people" because they came from the same source.

It says Nebuchadnezzar REBUILT the tower. Fuck it he probably didn't exist neither. Neither did the queen of Sheba neither did Tutankhamen. Fuggit Columbus never lived neither. The Europeans been here the whole time they were just hiding in caves. There were no ancient dynasties in China neither. Atilla the hun is a made up character as well. Anyone I left out? Get some reading comprehension skills please.

 

[one/quest/ion]

After reading this I am even more confused! What is it that one should do then? Everything says avoid media, entertainment, work for others, and schools because they are only dumbing you down and teaching conformity. I guess my question is what knowledge am i supposed to pursue? Also on another subject will there always be a slave class and creator? Is the point to choose to be a creator? Is that the knowledge I am supposed to seek? I'm really lost?

 

[smokedacane]

After reading this I am even more confused! What is it that one should do then? Everything says avoid media, entertainment, work for others, and schools because they are only dumbing you down and teaching conformity. I guess my question is what knowledge am i supposed to pursue? Also on another subject will there always be a slave class and creator? Is the point to choose to be a creator? Is that the knowledge I am supposed to seek? I'm really lost?

Damn you're overwhelmed........It's up to you to retain and pursue what knowledge you feel is necessary. And that is accomplished through your ability to see past the bullshit being spewed out throught media outlets. Not all information can be trustworthy and some of it is disinformation so always question everything and analyze it carefully.

Also on another subject will there always be a slave class and creator? Is the point to choose to be a creator?

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

[bigirl]

After reading this I am even more confused! What is it that one should do then? Everything says avoid media, entertainment, work for others, and schools because they are only dumbing you down and teaching conformity. I guess my question is what knowledge am i supposed to pursue? Also on another subject will there always be a slave class and creator? Is the point to choose to be a creator? Is that the knowledge I am supposed to seek? I'm really lost?

there doesn't need to be a slave class for you to be a creator.
*remember* the easiest way they control people is thru fear. don't succumb to it. peep all the negative messages in all the media and IGNORE them.

 

[Casual Observer]

It says Nebuchadnezzar REBUILT the tower. Fuck it he probably didn't exist neither. Neither did the queen of Sheba neither did Tutankhamen. Fuggit Columbus never lived neither. The Europeans been here the whole time they were just hiding in caves. There were no ancient dynasties in China neither. Atilla the hun is a made up character as well. Anyone I left out? Get some reading comprehension skills please.

The diffrence between recorded history and the bible is just that it is recorded and proven history. You don't have to believe in columbus, nor tutankhamen. There is proof that they existed. Thre's no flaw in my comprehension, just in your understanding. Whatever nebuchadnezzar built or rebuilt wasn't the tower of babel. It was a tower in Babylon. But not the tower of babel. Full stop. THERE IS NO SUCH THING.

 

[bigirl]

The diffrence between recorded history and the bible is just that it is recorded and proven history. You don't have to believe in columbus, nor tutankhamen. There is proof that they existed. Thre's no flaw in my comprehension, just in your understanding. Whatever nebuchadnezzar built or rebuilt wasn't the tower of babel. It was a tower in Babylon. But not the tower of babel. Full stop. THERE IS NO SUCH THING.

go away whiteboy

 

[Casual Observer]

go away whiteboy

Oh dear, is that where we are now? Couldn't find a credible source to collaborate your mystic delusions? Ad hominem attacks aren't going to make the the tower of babel anymore real. I've often heard at times like this it's best to ask yourself what would jesus do. No worries, when you're done chucking spears at watermelons I'm sure big momma has got a lovely fried chicken dinner set out on the porch for you and the rest of the monkeys.

 

[bigirl]

Alice Ann Bailey, a leading disciple of the Russian theosophist Madame Helena Blavatsky, formed the Lucifer Trust in 1920. 1922 saw the organization's name changed to Lucis Trust though the advancement of the Luciferian beliefs remained true. Beliefs that in Blavatsky's words: “oppose the materialism of science and every dogmatic theology, especially the Christian, which the Chiefs of the Society regard as particularly pernicious.”

Lucis Trust promulgates the work of an "Ascended Master" who was working 'through' Alice Bailey for some 30 years. The Lucis Trust Publishing Company and their many fronts and organizations worship an "Externalized Hierarchy" of "Ascended Masters," who carry out the work of a Luciferian "master plan" for the establishment of a permanent "Age of Aquarius" ruled by one "Sanat Kumara", the "Lord of the World."

Lucis Trust is a powerful institution that enjoys "Consultative Status" with the United Nations, which permits it to have a close working relationship with the U.N., including a seat on the weekly sessions, but most importantly, influence with powerful business and national leaders throughout the world.

Through its founding of World Goodwill, Lucis Trust is "aggressively involved in promoting a globalist ideology":

Authors and participants in its various conferences read like a Who's Who of globalist insiders. Featured on its website, for example, is the Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities, put forth in April 1998 as a companion document to the notorious UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Signatories to the World Goodwill document include: Helmut Schmidt, former chancellor of West Germany; Malcolm Fraser, former Australian prime minister; Oscar Arias Sanchez, former prime minister of Costa Rica; Shimon Peres; Robert McNamara; Paul Volcker; and Jimmy Carter.

... it is as much a political organization as an occult religious one.

- New Age Roots, by Steve Bonta
Lucis Trust is run through an international board of trustees whose membership is said to have included: John D. Rockefeller; Norman Cousins; Robert S. McNamara; Thomas Watson, Jr. (IBM, former U.S. Ambassador to Moscow); Henry Clauson Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, 33rd Degree, Southern District Scottish Rite and Henry Kissinger. This would then tie Bailey's influential occult organization into the international conspiracy of elitists, including the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderbergs, and the Trilateral Commission.

I've been able to confirm some of these connections through Lucis Trust's involvement in the Windsor International Bank and Trust Company, where on its site, the Windsor Bank plainly states that its “a Member of, Advisor to, Affiliate of, Friend of, Benefactor of, or Contributor to, the following Organizations, to name several:”

International Fund For Development
The Hall Family Foundation
The Rockefeller Foundation
WHO/Habitat For Humanity
The Lucis Trust (NGO); United Nations
National Resources Defense Council
Capital Missions Company
Investors Circle
The Coca-Cola Foundation
Fellowship For International Education
International Monetary Agency
International Center For Educational Advancement
Christian Children's Fund (Worldwide)
BAMPAC (Black America's Political Action)
Fellowship For Reconciliation
National Institute For the Advancement Of Science
International Association For Environmental Cooperation
World Wildlife Federation
Council On Foreign Relations (CFR)
CARICOM
NAFTA
MERCOSOR
Council Of Emerging Nations
Freedom Communications, Inc.
The European Institute (Foreign Affairs Magazine)
United Nations Association of The USA
The NAACP (National Association of Colored People)
The Royal Heritage Charitable Relief Fund
IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT: After I posted this discovery, the Windsor Bank promptly changed their page and deleted all traces of the connections which I exposed above. As of this writing they no longer have a web presence. I've been able to salvage a copy – thanks to Google's Cache — of the page as it appeared when I wrote this Lucis Trust expose: Here is the original:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/windsor.htm

One disturbing aspect is the blatant targeting of children. Lucis Trust directs an activity called Triangles in Education, which is partnered with groups that "make some contribution to the task of laying the foundations for the new education." This, according to Bailey, is part of the overall work of the New Group of World Servers, "a band of obedient workers and servers of the WORD." The word being the teachings of her channeled Master Djwhal Khul, through her voluminous occult works. The word, has also been heeded by the likes of Robert Muller — former assistant Secretary General of the United Nations and winner of the UNESCO Prize for Peace Education in 1989 for his World Core Curriculum. He said, "The underlying philosophy upon which The Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teaching set forth in the books of Alice A. Bailey by the Tibetan teacher, Djwhal Khul."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Lucis_Trust.htm

 

[bigirl]

here is the direct link to the lucis trust website. you will trip.:
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/service_activities/world_goodwill__1/purposes_objectives

check the aquarian age community a UN sponsored org:
http://www.aquaac.org/about/about.html

the spiritual foundations of the united nations :
http://www.aquaac.org/un/found.html

 

[a7chemist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddzqwd1CMMg

 

[a7chemist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki9xgfbz34A

 

[a7chemist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkhx9bgVlj8

 

[a7chemist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93cyktY_i0

 

[bigirl]

Here is a quote from US Masonic History 101. The full article can be found here:

http://freemasonrywatch.org/history101.html

A former Confederate general and Freemason, Nathan Bedford Forrest, founded the Ku Klux Klan and served as its first Imperial Wizard. Albert Pike held the office of Chief Justice of the Ku Klux Klan while he was simultaneously Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction. Pike's racism was well known. He expressed his concept of Masonic brotherhood succinctly: "I took my obligation to White men, not to Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it." Some believe Pike concocted the ritual for the original KKK.

In The Ku Klux Klan by William Pierce Randel, on page 200 we learn:

The Klan shared its Protestant restrictiveness with the Masons and more than once sought to capitalize on the parallel. Kleagles commonly remarked to prospects, in an offhand manner, that 'the Klan is, in fact, a Masonic movement.' Many leading Klansmen, in both the old Klan and the new were Masons; [Hiram] Evans himself gained the 32nd degree.

The institution of Freemasonry remains largely segregated even today.

 

[bigirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c93cyktY_i0

These are all great. Thanks. I sent them to my whole address book. Good looks.

 

[smokedacane]

Still at it I see

 

[bigirl]

Still at it I see

This stuff reaches so far and there are so many different facets of it that I would like to touch as many as possible. I will keep on too.

 

[smokedacane]

This stuff reaches so far and there are so many different facets of it that I would like to touch as many as possible. I will keep on too.

Do your thing and I will do mine

 

[DaleMabry]

everything about that just sounds odd........


I am very familiar with that book. He has a bunch of videos I found on youtube where he talks about government conspiracy, aliens, and the whole 9


Very very informative vid
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4574387786893863155&q=william+cooper&hl=en

I don't generally like talking about this openly, but Cooper had made some accusations of governmental complicity in a certain cataclysmic attack in a certain major city--and then weeks later he was finally killed after a career of pissing off power in high places.

But what I thought was most troubling is the paucity of media reporting on his death. I work in entertainment and media and could only find one or two publications worldwide that reported his death. Pretty suspicious.

As for that Albert Einstein quote, it appears difficult to substantiate...

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp

 

[AristotlesOwn]

Deep...

 

[smokedacane]

I don't generally like talking about this openly, but Cooper had made some accusations of governmental complicity in a certain cataclysmic attack in a certain major city--and then weeks later he was finally killed after a career of pissing off power in high places.

But what I thought was most troubling is the paucity of media reporting on his death. I work in entertainment and media and could only find one or two publications worldwide that reported his death. Pretty suspicious.

As for that Albert Einstein quote, it appears difficult to substantiate...

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp

Yeah, I figured media outlets wouldn't be too concerned about his death or it wouldn't be well publicized. I know what you're talking about when he predicted a major terrorist attack was set to occur in this country, I can't remember who he quoted exactly but for some reason I think it was a former president or a group of government officials that meet together.


Another whistle blower that died under "mysterious" circumstances was Phil Schnieder. You might know who he is, he used to be a geologist for that worked for the government and helped them build underground bases all over the country. He claimed that in fact Aliens lived underground and our government was well aware of it and in fact HELPED them build bases and abuct and murder thousands of people (don't know if they were just Americans or people from all over the world). Also he said the reason why he was missing his fingers and had a large scar across his chest is because he was attacked by a large gray alien while he was underground.

That event was known as the "Dulce Wars" where he stated that 66 humans (mostly special forces and military workers) lost their lives in a underground fire fight with grays


He also claimed he has has 9 attempts on his life becasue he would go around the country and give lectures on his experiance.


First vid I saw of him (wild wild accusations)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9042499324182317197&q=phil+schneider&hl=en

I read on wikipedia that he died from strangalation from a rubber hose, now this doesn't make much sense considering Phil only has 7 or 8 fingers (index and middle finger were blown off) so it would be difficult for him to strangle himself and the county medical examiner refused to do a autopsy on him because he said he didn't want to waste his time on a "suicide".


I mean if nothing he said had any truth to it, why does it appear that he murdered???

 

[smokedacane]

I don't generally like talking about this openly, but Cooper had made some accusations of governmental complicity in a certain cataclysmic attack in a certain major city--and then weeks later he was finally killed after a career of pissing off power in high places.

But what I thought was most troubling is the paucity of media reporting on his death. I work in entertainment and media and could only find one or two publications worldwide that reported his death. Pretty suspicious.

As for that Albert Einstein quote, it appears difficult to substantiate...

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp

Why not? Affraid of ridicule or something else?......I understand if you don't like talking about it at work or something like that but other then that...

 

[smokedacane]

bump

 

[one/quest/ion]

Those Mumia Abu Jamal vids are great . I have another question, If the purpose of this mystery group of people is to amass wealth and control, what would they gain? They would obviously have no use for capital and if they are profiting now as you say they are there is not a need for more capital? Would someone please explain their Ultimate Goal, and I'm not talking that world domination line, explain your take and how they would truly benefit in the end. If their goal is to have the world under their control, let's take it past that and assume the plan is successful. What is their first step after the takeover. Their aim is obviously not peace, so I am once again lost! Some one drop some knowledge so I can realize

Peace

 

[smokedacane]

Those Mumia Abu Jamal vids are great . I have another question, If the purpose of this mystery group of people is to amass wealth and control, what would they gain? They would obviously have no use for capital and if they are profiting now as you say they are there is not a need for more capital? Would someone please explain their Ultimate Goal, and I'm not talking that world domination line, explain your take and how they would truly benefit in the end. If their goal is to have the world under their control, let's take it past that and assume the plan is successful. What is their first step after the takeover. Their aim is obviously not peace, so I am once again lost! Some one drop some knowledge so I can realize

Peace

Well in my opinion, most logically they would of killed of a majority of the population that is less desrable (black, hispanic, asian, etc) by using biological warefare (AIDS/HIV, disease, or other means) so it wouldn't be much of a fight. It could be either that or the possibilty of another world war for example, there are many underground bases all over this country and the world that could house a large number of "select" people if something devastating did occur.

As far as the people remaining they will probably all be microchipped and kept under surveillance and contorl......this type of world is basically the same ideal Hitler had when he wanted world domination it is basically being recycled over again.


Cant really speculate on anything else because I know just as much as you do in terms of what will supposedly take place next.

 

[bigirl]

Well in my opinion, most logically they would of killed of a majority of the population that is less desrable (black, hispanic, asian, etc) by using biological warefare (AIDS/HIV, disease, or other means) so it wouldn't be much of a fight. It could be either that or the possibilty of another world war for example, there are many underground bases all over this country and the world that could house a large number of "select" people if something devastating did occur.

As far as the people remaining they will probably all be microchipped and kept under surveillance and contorl......this type of world is basically the same ideal Hitler had when he wanted world domination it is basically being recycled over again.


Cant really speculate on anything else because I know just as much as you do in terms of what will supposedly take place next.

co-sign

 

[LennyNero1972]

Smokin' post, BGOL never ceases to amaze me!!!! A white guy turned me on to Behold a Pale Horse back in college, & I haven't looked back since.

I want to recommend a few more conspiracy books:

They Cast No Shadows by Brian Desborough

Nothing In This Book is True, but it is exactly how things are by Bob Frissell

and the last and best

Everything is Under Control by Robert Anton Wilson

What's cool about this one is it mentions Noble Drew Ali and the Moorish origins of Irish/British culture.

 

[bigirl]

Everything is Under Control by Robert Anton Wilson

I been into Robert Anton Wilson for a while. The Illuminati trilogy and Cosmic Trigger are also excellent. Oh yeah sex and drugs tells you all about their sex magic rituals and their history.

The Montauk Series by Peter moon is also excellent.