By the way, if the Dems can't capitalize on this sh** right here...with regards to the Presidential election...then they might as well disband. This is what happens when you let business run wild without any regulations whatsoever. It eventually eats itself.
Bank Collapse Catastrophe Warning
- Thread starter alexw
- Start date
question....
who bailed out the USA (or the world) during the great depression back in the days?
i honestly dont know
who bailed out the USA (or the world) during the great depression back in the days?
i honestly dont know
Absolutely correct. Historically, gold acts opposite to the dollar. As the dollar goes up, the value of gold goes down, and when the dollar drops through the floor, the value of gold is going through the roof. Furthermore, the relationship between silver and gold has historically been ~15-to-1. Meaning, it takes 15 units of silver to purchase 1 corresponding unit of gold. Today the value of gold is $765 per ounce, so silver should be $51 per ounce. However, silver is only $10.65 per ounce. This is because paper silver is being traded "illegally" w/o the backing of actual silver. Basically, they're doing exactly what the fed does when it prints money that's not backed by gold it's actually worthless. Same with paper silver. It's being traded, but the certificates aren't actually backed by any real silver in vaults. Instead, it's more of a futures game they're playing. Consequently, this has suppressed the value of silver from the $50 per oz mark, to its current $10 per oz. Once the bottom falls out, and the manipulations end, silver is going to return to it's historic place of 15 to 1 with gold. However, once the bottom falls out, gold is going through the roof, and it's taking silver right along with it. Finally, because silver is being manipulated, and its currently undervalued, once it takes off it will outperform gold because its going to travel farther (ie from its current price to its final price). Also, silver has industrial applications that gold does not (silver is the best electrical conductor known to man) and is needed in tech industry and film. This has depleted silver resources, which has created a real shortage. This will further drive up the price. When its all said and done, silver will probably end up at less than a 10-to-1 ratio with gold. So, if you purchased silver now (dirt cheap), you can imagine how much you stand to gain if the dollar drops and gold goes through the roof. However, if these are "the last days" it doesn't really matter, but it will give you options so that you don't have to accept the coming "National ID Card." Those who have ears hear me.
I'm not a historian, but basically I believe it was self correcting. Nations become strong/wealthy by producing and not consuming. During the depression, we were still a producing nation, but we just didn't have the money to consume our products. This allowed us to do exactly what China is doing now. China makes everything for every developed country in the world, but China doesn't consume any of the things it makes. Consequently, this had made China a mega-superpower. Same thing happened during the depression. A decade of producing goods for other countries, while saving and investing our money, got the country out of the depression and made us a superpower. This is what's destroying us now. We consume far more than we produce.
good drop on the info about the investment companies aka banks...
next we will be standing in line to turn in all of our gold, and guns
Their are some petrified Negroids in this thread. 
Rick Ronson
Banned
No one does looks like
Wells Fargo is up so I guess I still have to pay this Mortgage for now.
Im with Navy Federal.
Hey maybe the bank with my car loan on it fell.
Im about to go fill up on gas for whatever reason.
New territory for me if this shit is what yall say it is.
Those of you who can't afford gold can buy gold index funds.
Better than the rest
Commentary: Five ETFs for people who hate ETFs
By Matt Hougan & Jim Wiandt
Last update: 5:26 p.m. EDT Sept. 14, 2008
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Every hot new thing has its backlash, and exchange-traded funds are no different. No less an authority than John Bogle has called them "gimmicky" and a threat to long-term returns.
We'd be the first to admit that ETFs aren't perfect. ETFs often don't make sense for "slow and steady" investors who must pay a commission on every trade. And many ETFs have been launched into bubble-like environments, just in time for investors to shoot themselves in the foot by buying high and selling low.
Still, when you cut through the hype, even an investing curmudgeon will realize that there are some areas where ETFs offer the only practical, low-cost access.
Here are five:
1. Gold
A few years ago, buying physical gold was both a pain in the neck and terribly expensive. Your local bank might sell you a one-ounce American Buffalo coin, but you'd pay a 5%-10% mark-up for the privilege. Online metal dealers could do a bit better, and gold pools were cheaper still, but arranging the paperwork was a hassle; besides, you always ended up paying more than spot.
Enter ETFs. The SPDR Gold Fund (GLDspdr gold trust gold shs
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">GLD) and iShares COMEX GOLD Fund (IAUiShares COMEX Gold Trust
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">IAU) let you buy real gold bullion and pay just 0.40% in annual expenses. Best of all, you can do it from the comfort of a brokerage account, just like buying a stock. The funds hold physical bullion in a secured vault. There's no need to worry about theft, paperwork, or anything else; just click and you are golden.
2. Frontier markets
Globalization is making the world a smaller place. That's bad for investors. The problem is that as the world comes together, so do the returns you get from U.S. and international exposure. In the first half of 2008, for instance, the Standard & Poor's 500 Index (SPXS&P 500 Index
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">SPX) fell 12.7%, the MSCI EAFE Index fell 13.8% and the MSCI Emerging Markets Index fell 16.4%. Where's diversification when you need it?
On the frontier. The recent debut of frontier market ETFs means investors can gain exposure to formerly off-limits markets such as Nigeria, Kazakhstan and Colombia. These countries exist outside the wave of globalization, with economies driven more by local factors than by what's happening in New York or Hong Kong.
The Claymore/BNY Mellon Frontier Markets ETF (FRNclaymore etf trust 2 clay/bny etf
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">FRN) was first-to-market, but you can get more targeted exposure from funds like the PowerShares MENA Frontier Countries Portfolio (PMNApowershares etf trust ii mena frntr etf
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">PMNA) or the Market Vectors Gulf States ETF (MESmarket vectors etf tr gulf sts etf
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">MES) .
3. Currencies
Anyone who has followed the soap opera story of the U.S. dollar in recent years realizes there are opportunities in currencies. In fact, currencies are one of the hottest corners of the ETF market. More than 30 currency-focused ETFs and exchange-traded notes (ETNs) are now available, and assets in those funds have more than doubled in the past year to top $6 billion.
These ETFs offer exposure to everything from the euro to the yen, the Mexican peso, the Chinese yuan and the Brazilian real. In a straight currency fund -- the largest of which is the Rydex Euro Currency Trust (FXEcurrencyshares euro tr euro shs
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">FXE) -- you get exposure to both the currency return and the interest rate of the local market.
4. Commodities
By now, most every investor knows about commodities, and probably has some socked away in their portfolio. The sector's huge returns over recent years, coupled with its famously low relationship to the stock market, means that commodities have emerged as a legitimate asset class.
With ETFs and ETNs, you can get exposure to commodities for much less than you can with mutual funds, and in a less complicated way than the traditional path of using futures or options. The iPath Dow Jones -- AIG Commodity Index Total Return ETN (DJPiPath Dow Jones AIG Commodity Index Total Return ETN
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<img class="pixelTracking" border="0" height="1" width="1">DJP) provides exposure to the broad-based DJ-AIG commodity index for a fee of 0.75% per year; most traditional mutual funds charge multiples of that.
5. Institutional strategies
The next wave of growth in the ETF industry will involve fund companies bringing institutional trading strategies to the retail market. There are already ETNs tracking "130/30" and "buy/write" strategies, and whole suite of "hedge fund replication" products are slated to come to market soon.
These kinds of funds aren't right for every investor -- and it remains to be seen if they'll deliver on their promises -- but they do bear watching.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/five-etfs-people-hate-etfs/story.aspx?guid={E71FC508-E35C-4080-B2DA-13EA0005A6BD}&dist=msr_2
Another link to do some more reading:
http://www.businessweek.com/investo...an=investing_investing+index+page_top+stories
Do your homework but these are some alternatives................
.
dude are you serious..
no fucking investments are same..
no fucking investment..
paper don't mean shit...
time to cash the fuck out..
time to empty all bank accounts/ ira...etc
.
go to your local pawn shops and start buying all the 24k gold jewelry you can
find..
worse come to worse you can melt that shit yourself in your house..
has to be 24k gold though...
Nope we aren't, but it's a sign of what is to come.
Tomorrow will provide great buying opportunities.
Nope. It isn't that extreme.
THE FALL OF AMERIKKKA
Sorry. Not just yet.
Are you some scared white dude?
this jew just said goldman sachs better find a buyer tomorrow or go out of business
Damn they are hurting also. I think 2 years ago they had almost 1 trillion in transaction. Hell even janitors and mail room clerks receive 25k in bonuses.
Citibank will be fine. It's the largest bank in the usa.
Wachovia will be fine.
ING will be cool. I have loot in there.
Why only Chase? BoA and Citibank are larger.
I don't understand also, but I'm pretty sure they know more than we do.
BoA plans on saving jobs.
Uhhh Obama already has a plan to fix this. He is raising capital gains tax.
This is the best post in this thread. ^^^^
talked to my boy on Wall Street couple minutes ago, they are all shitting their pants.
he said the best bet now would be to buy into an index fund that tracks the market because we are at such a low right now.
talked about cycles of the economy etc....
sounded good if you believe we are going to make it out of this one, I'm not so convinced we are going to ever make it out..........
Do you know the Fed is thinking about adding the Freddy Mac & Fanny Mae debt of 5.2 trillion to the budget????
Wall Street is shitting and I'm licking my chops. Why are you convinced we won't make it out????
How can a precious metal be taken down with worthless paper?
You have to some what blame Bush tax cuts for this.
What's crazy is I was about to put in a 3 week notice to my job tomorrow, but now due to this I changed my mind. LOL
All chicken littles in here need to stop crying.
U.S. Considers Bringing Fannie, Freddie on to Budget
Sept. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Bush administration is considering whether to fold Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's $5.2 trillion in debt into the federal budget, the White House budget office and the U.S. Treasury Department said.
``We're discussing how to present this in the federal budget with Treasury and stakeholders right now, but a conclusion hasn't been determined,'' said Corinne Hirsch, a spokeswoman for the Office of Management and Budget. The Government Accounting Office and other federal agencies are also weighing in on the issue.
The federal takeover of the government-sponsored enterprises, or GSEs, on Sept. 7 failed to address whether the debt of Fannie and Freddie should be included in the budget, or whether it carries an explicit government guarantee. In an interview this week, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson cited the ``incongruities'' in the law and said ``we should be clear, is there a government guarantee or isn't there?''
Any decision to add Fannie and Freddie to the budget wouldn't automatically translate into an explicit government backing for the companies' combined $1.7 trillion in unsecured debt and $3.5 trillion of mortgage guarantees. Granting the full faith and credit of the U.S. would require an act of Congress to change the companies' legal status.
``You can't even be a senior debt investor at this point beyond the 15 month period because you really don't know if the federal government will back away from its commitment to support the debt,'' said Christopher Sullivan, who oversees $1.3 billion as chief investment officer at United Nations Federal Credit Union in New York.
Under Control
The Treasury is talking to the budget office about how to treat Fannie and Freddie in the budget, said Jennifer Zuccarelli, a Treasury spokeswoman. She declined to discuss what options are being considered.
``The reason Fannie Mae was originally turned into a GSE was to take it off the budget,'' said Peter Wallison, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative policy think tank in Washington. Wallison was general counsel for the Treasury during the Reagan Administration. ``The U.S. budget is a completely cash flow system, it's like a Mom and Pop candy store. They don't have any reserves or deferred expenses like private corporations do. It's completely cash in, cash out.''
The Treasury and Federal Housing Finance Agency put the beleaguered mortgage-finance companies back under federal control for the first time in about 40 years after their $14.9 billion in net losses threatened to further disrupt the housing market. The Treasury committed to invest as much as $200 billion in preferred stock and extend credit through 2009 to prevent a collapse of Fannie and Freddie, protecting investors owning more than $5 trillion of their debt and mortgage-backed securities.
Treasury Risk
If the companies were given explicit backing, their debt costs would plunge to bring them closer to the U.S. Treasury debt, Wallison said.
Fannie's five-year debt trades at 65 basis points more than Treasuries and has averaged 40 basis points more for the past five years.
Investors in the credit-default swap market for U.S. Treasuries are already concerned a guarantee is coming, demanding record high fees to offer investors protection against losses on Treasuries.
Five-year credit-default swap contracts on U.S. government debt increased 3.5 basis points on Sept. 9 to a record 18, up from 6 basis points in April, according to CMA Datavision in London. Credit-default swaps pay the buyer face value in exchange for the underlying securities or the cash equivalent should a country or company fail to adhere to its debt agreements. A rise indicates deterioration in the perception of credit quality.
Losses
The U.S. budget deficit will grow next fiscal year to $438 billion from $407 billion, the Congressional Budget Office said Sept. 9, making it harder for President George W. Bush's successor to either cut taxes or increase spending.
The CBO, a provider of independent assessments on U.S. economic and budgetary decisions to Congress, said the Treasury should incorporate Fannie and Freddie's assets and liabilities into the budget. The CBO, which doesn't set budget policy, will include the projections in its own data starting in January.
``What the administration chooses to incorporate in its budget is up to them, but we hope they will agree,'' CBO Director Peter Orszag said in an interview yesterday.
Though much of the companies' unsecured debt will likely be counted as new federal debt, their mortgage securities won't necessarily translate into the same amount of federal debt since loans and other assets back those liabilities, Orszag said.
The degree of government control suggests the companies' expenses, including salaries and electricity bills, should be counted as federal spending and all fee revenue and other income from operations should be reflected as revenue, Orszag said.
CBO will treat Fannie and Freddie's debt similar to that of government-owned electricity producer Tennessee Valley Authority, which Orszag said won't directly affect the federal debt ceiling.
Any cash investments by the Treasury, such as buying mortgage securities or preferred stock, will directly add to the federal debt outstanding. U.S. officials said Treasury plans to buy $5 billion of the companies' mortgage bonds this month. Fannie and Freddie are also issuing $1 billion each this week in senior preferred shares to Treasury without any cost to the U.S. government.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=adr.czwVm3ws&refer=exclusive#
90% on point.........
copper actually has a higher conductivity than silver but you are on point........
There is going to be instability in Africa.
I see western countries plotting to overthrow African gov'ts form within and overtly..........
Actually it was Bill Clinton who repealed the Act
On November 12, 1999, President Bill Clinton signed into law the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.
One of the effects of the repeal was to allow commercial and investment banks to consolidate.
Some economists have criticized the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act as contributing to the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis.[7][8]
The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities. Citigroup played a major part in the repeal. Then called Citicorp, the company merged with Travelers Insurance company the year before using loopholes in Glass-Steagall that allowed for temporary exemptions.
With lobbying led by Roger Levy, the "finance, insurance and real estate industries together are regularly the largest campaign contributors and biggest spenders on lobbying of all business sectors [in 1999].
They laid out more than $200 million for lobbying in 1998, according to the Center for Responsive Politics..." These industries succeeded in their two decades long effort to repeal the act.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act
@ security...that one tall nigga got a look on his face like "do something nigga...do it!!!"...
I hear you on that.
Their are some petrified Negroids in this thread.
Well minorities usually suffer the worse.
edit for the people who think they can just up and go to another person's country. ferking idiots.
Yeah I was about to leave mine too. Now I guess I'd better stick around.
Remember the thread about the new currency, the Amero? (maybe you posted it?) A severely weak dollar makes it all the easier for the FED to bring in a combined North American currency. Do you think Mexico and Canada would actually be opposed to joining the all-mighty USA in world finance?
Paraphrasing what Obama said; "In times of stress, fear and confusion; mainstream America clings to what is familiar and dear to them. In electoral politics it's old white men who remind them of their Grandpa. They are longing for Reagan again, despite his proven shortcomings.
90% on point.........
copper actually has a higher conductivity than silver but you are on point........
Actually, Silver is the most conductive material known to man. It's 5% more conductive than copper. The IACS chart is the standard conductivity rating of metals. It's based on a metals conductivity with respect to copper. Silver has a 105% IACS rating, which means it's 5% more conductive than copper. However, since it's far more expensive relative to the increase in conductivity, most industrial applications use the cheaper copper instead. However, in high tech applications, like IC chips, silver is the metal of choice since reduction of heat (caused by resistance) is crucial to their performance. Because only a very small amount of silver is used in an actual IC chip circuit, it's cost prohibitive to recycle the metal when an IC is thrown out. This further diminishes the availability of silver. Hence our current shortage. Here's the list:
Material IACS % Conductivity
Silver
105%
Copper
100% (Because its the standard by which all other metals are measured)
Gold
70%
Aluminum
61%
Nickel
22 %
Zinc
27%
Brass
28%
Iron
17%
Tin
15%
Phosphor Bronze
15%
Lead
7%
Nickel Alum. Bronze
7%
Steel
3 to 15%
500 point drop in the Dow, now if the Asian markets hold up, cats will be bargin shopping tomorrow, and there should be some recovery.....this is the time to buy low....certain companies are not going anywhere for a long time (Apple, Microsoft, Google) that you might be able to make a piece of change on....
bump
You still believe this after today?
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