Article re: Global warming (good read)

Fuckallyall

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From Georgia Public Policy Foundation website

Commentary

Global Warming Activists Hang Their Hats on Hot Air

By Harold Brown

The issue of global warming, which already is claiming an inordinate amount of attention, is well on its way to becoming the environmental movement’s rallying point over the next decade.

The central role of global warming in the movement is evident in an essay last fall by Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus, “The Death of Environmentalism: Global Warming Politics in a Post-Environmental World.” Notwithstanding the title, the essay was less about the death of environmentalism than the movement’s need for changes in emphasis, perceptions and definitions.

The authors called for changes in strategy to increase political power, noting that, “n their public campaigns, not one of America's environmental leaders is articulating a vision of the future commensurate with the magnitude of the crisis. Instead they are promoting technical policy fixes like pollution controls and higher vehicle mileage standards – proposals that provide neither the popular inspiration nor the political alliances the community needs to deal with the problem.”

Visibly absent was any admission that global warming is a bad choice as the defining issue of the movement. Global warming is doubtful and is in the future – not the near future, but 50 or 100 years from now. People barely believe weather forecasts for next week and don’t for next month. Why would they believe climate forecasts for the next hundred years? Even if they believed it, would they sacrifice the good life and prospects for a better one to prepare for a specter that someone says is beyond the horizon? Why would they choose the unknown?

The theory of global warming is that increasing greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels and forests, are trapping more of the heat that the earth normally radiates back into space.

The normal trapping of heat by greenhouse gases makes this planet livable, keeping temperature extremes from being as great as on other planets with little or none of these gases. Temperature extremes in deserts such as hot days and cool nights are due to a lower level of one greenhouse gas, water vapor. In fact, water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas on earth. While water vapor is apparently not increasing, carbon dioxide is.

The expectation that the earth will heat up is not based on reality. Global weather is complicated and notoriously unpredictable, but there is no demonstrable current rise in temperature despite a 25 percent increase in carbon dioxide in the 20th century.

Climate models are probably the greatest promoter of this “crisis.” Highly complex and complicated computer models are used to predict how much temperature will change if carbon dioxide rises by a given amount. The climate models predict that temperatures at the poles will rise fastest during global warming. But no warming has occurred at the South Pole since measurements began nearly 50 years ago and, in fact, most polar regions are cooling. For example, in 2003, researchers reported Greenland’s southern coastal areas cooled by 1.29 degrees Celsius. (2.3 degrees Fahrenheit) in the previous 44 years, while a study of the Antarctic continent published in 2002 showed a net cooling from 1966 to 2000.

Widespread locations in the world show no clear trend. Some have warmed; others have cooled. Average temperatures for the southeastern United States haven’t changed since 1895. Yearly averages were above 60 degrees F. 66 times in the 110-year period, 40 times in the first half. At Dawson, in the Canadian Yukon Territory near the Arctic Circle, the first half of the 20th century was warmer than the second and had nearly twice as many yearly averages above 25 F.

Does global warming have benefits? Of course! If carbon dioxide doubles, photosynthesis and plant growth (including crops and forests) will increase greatly. If the world gets warmer, Arctic regions will become more habitable, the Arctic ocean navigable.

There are many facets to the global warming dispute, but there is a real shortage of answers. The most important question is: Even if the world is warming, did humans cause it? If humans didn’t cause it, or even if we did, how are we going to fix it?

Nobody talks about the results of the proposed fix, of what good the Kyoto Protocol and like proposals will do. If, as Kyoto requires, greenhouse gas production is cut back to 5.2 percent below 1990 levels, what effect will it have? Three separate analyses showed that this reduction would cut the projected increase in temperature by only 0.13 to 0.15 degrees Celsius (0.23 to 0.27 degrees F.) in the year 2100. In other words, even if the world is warming and even if greenhouse gases are the cause, Kyoto restrictions make no difference.

Does it make any difference how much humans slow down the production of carbon dioxide? Fossil fuel will be used as long as it is the cheapest source of energy. Whether this century’s allotment is used in the next 100 or 500 years, will the temperature increase 2.1 degrees or only 1.9 degrees?

It’s imperative that this nation understand beforehand what, if anything, there is to gain in return for a given amount of cutbacks. Anyone trying to sell you an answer to these questions now is selling you a load of hot air. And if you’re buying it, you’re probably the one Georgian planning a summer picnic next weekend with confidence in the 10-day weather forecast.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

University of Georgia Professor Emeritus R. Harold Brown is an Adjunct Scholar with the Georgia Public Policy Foundation and author of “The Greening of Georgia: The Improvement of the Environment in the Twentieth Century.” The Georgia Public Policy Foundation is an independent think tank that proposes practical, market-oriented approaches to public policy to improve the lives of Georgians. Nothing written here is to be construed as necessarily reflecting the views of the Georgia Public Policy Foundation or as an attempt to aid or hinder the passage of any bill before the U.S. Congress or the Georgia Legislature.
 
Bigger, Badder Tropical Blows

Bigger, Badder Tropical Blows
By Thomas Hayden and Megan Barnett
9/12/05

Katrina's fury had not yet subsided last week when Germany's environment minister sparked a minitempest of his own. Writing in the Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper, Jurgen Trittin suggested that the hurricane's severity was at least partly a result of global warming and charged that "the American president is closing his eyes to the economic and human costs" of refusing to sign the Kyoto Protocol, which seeks to limit production of climate-warming greenhouse gases.

Trittin's message of "you asked for it" certainly won't be winning him any awards for tact. But with this year threatening to overtake last as the most expensive American hurricane season ever, it's hard not to wonder if maybe he has a point. Are hurricanes getting worse? And if so, is global warming to blame?

Simple enough questions, but the answers are less so. There certainly have been more Atlantic hurricanes recently. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Atlantic has kicked up an average of 7.8 hurricanes and 3.8 major hurricanes per year since 1995, compared with an annual average of just five hurricanes and 1.5 major hurricanes over the preceding 25 years. But most scientists agree that the increased frequency is caused by a natural cycle, not global warming. And over the past 50 years at least, increased numbers of hurricanes in the Atlantic are generally offset by fewer tropical cyclones in the Pacific and Indian oceans; the global average is holding steady at about 90 per year.

Still, there is growing evidence that global warming is making the storms stronger and wetter. For all the unstoppability of a fully formed hurricane, a nascent tropical cyclone is a fairly fussy thing, says climate researcher Tom Murphree of the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., requiring just the right conditions in the sea and the air to develop into a destructive powerhouse like Katrina. In a June article in Science, head climate analyst Kevin Trenberth of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., warned that global warming may already be nudging some of those conditions--like warm surface waters and increased moisture in the air--in directions that intensify storms.

Kerry Emanuel, a professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, thinks he has found evidence of that trend. In a study published last month in Nature, Emanuel calculated the intensity and duration of tropical cyclones for the past 75 years, estimating each storm's destructive power. "When you look at the numbers globally," he says, "you see a 70 to 80 percent increase in the potential destructiveness of tropical cyclones over the last 30 years. That's much more than anyone expected." And that surprising jump, he says "is strongly in concert with increases in the tropical sea surface temperature over the same time period." Many oceanographers are convinced that those warmer seas are the direct result of human-caused global warming.

Building boom. Even though hurricane activity along the Gulf Coast and up the Atlantic is expected to stay high for years, and maybe even intensify, official warnings and expert opinion apparently do nothing to dampen people's desire for living on or near the water. "People think a hurricane might not hit, or it might not flood, for 20 years," says Chip Law, an insurance industry analyst with SNL Financial, a research firm. Coastal development in the hurricane zone has been booming for years, he says, and even after Katrina, "it's not going to slow down."

Understanding hurricanes better may help scientists predict their severity. But thanks to the building boom--aided, in some cases, by taxpayer-backed federal flood insurance--limiting storm damage in the future won't depend on brilliant atmospheric science nearly so much as it will on common-sense planning and regulation.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050912/12coast.htm
 
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[hide]Web Exclusive| Nation

Poll: Americans See a Climate Problem

In a new TIME survey, most people see global warming worsening — and want action

Posted Sunday, Mar. 26, 2006
A large majority of Americans — 85% — say global warming is probably happening, according to a new TIME magazine/ABC News/Stanford University poll. An even larger percentage (88%) think global warming threatens future generations. More than half (60%) say it threatens them a great deal; 38% feel that global warming is already a serious problem, and 47% feel that it will be in the future.

Just over half of Americans (52%) say weather patterns in the county where they live have grown more unstable in the last three years and half (50%) feel that average temperatures have risen in their county. A large majority (70%) think weather patterns globally have become more unstable in the last three years and 56% feel average temperatures around the world have risen.

Almost half (49%) say the issue of global warming is "extremely important" or "very important" to them personally, up from 31% in 1998. When asked about the causes of rise in the world’s temperatures, 31% feel it is caused by the things people do, 19% feel it is due mostly to natural causes, and 49% feel it is a combination of the two. Almost seven-in-ten (68%) Americans think the government should do more to address global warming, according to the poll; however, 64% think scientists disagree with one another about global warming.

Two-thirds of Americans (66%) say President George W. Bush’s policies did little or nothing to help the environment in the past year. More than half (54%) feel American businesses did little or nothing to help. Three-quarters want to see Bush and others — Congress, American businesses and the American public — take action to help the environment in the year ahead. About one-third (35%) of Americans say that in the past year they have personally given a lot of thought to the impact they were having on the environment.

Six in ten Americans (62%) think much can be done to curb global warming and 52% favor government mandates. A majority (61%) say they would support a government mandate on lowering power plant emissions, and 87% support tax breaks to develop water, wind and solar power. But 81% oppose higher taxes on electricity, 68% oppose higher gasoline taxes and 56% oppose giving companies tax breaks to build nuclear power plants.

The partisan gap on global warming seems to be shifting, according to the poll. In 1998, 31% of Republicans and independents alike were sure that global warming was happening, compared with 39% among Democrats. Today, 46% of Democrats and 45% of independents are certain, but only 26% of Republicans feel that way, according to the poll.

The TIME/ABC News/Stanford University poll was conducted by telephone March 9-14, 2006 among a random national sample of 1,002 adults. The results have a three-point error margin.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1176967,00.html [/hide]
 
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This was originally posted by GET YOU HOT in a new thread
but it has been moved to this thread on the same subject
for continuity of discussion and debate

QueEx
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Potential Health Effects of Global Warming; Urban Heat in Atlanta; CBS Climate Hype
Cooler Heads Coalition
April 02, 2000

Potential Health Effects of Global Warming

The U.S. Global Change Research Program has released its findings regarding the effects of possible future global warming on human health in the United States. The workshop summary, part of the National Assessment of the Potential Consequences of Climate Variability, appears in the current issue of Environmental Health Perspectives (http://ehis.niehs.nih.gov).

According to the researchers, "We conclude that the levels of uncertainty preclude any definitive statement on the direction of potential future change for each of these health outcomes, although we developed some hypotheses." The health outcomes considered by the researchers included, "temperature-related morbidity and mortality; health effects of extreme weather events (storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, and precipitation extremes); air-pollution-related health effects; water- and food-borne diseases; and vector- and rodent-borne diseases."

In the discussion of vectorborne diseases such as malaria and dengue and yellow fever the authors note, "The ecology and transmission dynamics of these vectorborne infections are complex and the factors that influence transmission are unique to each disease. It is not possible, therefore, to make broad generalizations on the effect of climate on vectorborne diseases." The authors point out however, that these diseases are largely unknown in the U.S. "mainly because of changes in land use, agricultural methods, residential patterns, human behavior, and vector control."

According to the authors, the presence of dengue fever, for instance, "is greatly influenced by house structure, human behavior, and general socioeconomic conditions." For example, "In the period 1980-1996, 43 cases were recorded in Texas as compared to 50,333 in the three contiguous border states in Mexico."

Regarding extreme weather events, the report states, "Climate models currently are unable to accurately project changes in extreme events such as floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes, making it difficult to assess future potential health impacts of such events." It then proceeds to discuss in detail deaths, injuries and damages from past extreme events as well as a discussion of post-traumatic stress disorder.

The report also notes that, "Death rates are higher in the winter than in the summer and it is expected that milder winters could reduce the number of deaths in winter months." The report concludes, "We found that most of the U.S. population is presently protected against adverse health outcomes associated with weather and/or climate, although certain demographic and geographic populations are at increased risk. Vigilance in the maintenance and improvement of public health systems and their responsiveness to changing climate conditions and to identified vulnerable subpopulations should help protect the U.S. population from any adverse health outcomes of projected climate change."

Urban Heat in Atlanta

The recent report by the National Research Council claims that the surface-based temperature record is essentially correct. There may be some problems with that assertion, however. According to new research by NASA, the urban heat island effect may be greater than previously thought. Using satellite-based, remote-sensing technology researchers have found that, "Urban Atlanta can reach 5 to 8 degrees Fahrenheit or higher than surrounding rural areas.
(http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/headlines)

It has long been recognized that the urban heat island effect causes an upward bias in the surface temperature data. Scientists have attempted to adjust the data to eliminate the bias, and it is generally thought that they have been successful. But, as John Daly notes on his webpage (www.vision.net/~daly), that, "Data from GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies) shows that Atlanta has warmed about 2 degrees C in the last 100 years compared with Newnan, a small town about 50 kilometers southwest of Atlanta. But the GISS ‘adjustment’ for urbanization in Atlanta is only 1 degree C."

This suggests that the adjustments have been inadequate. Daly shows other dubious adjustments on his website. Denver has only been adjusted +0.1 degrees C, even though it has experience tremendous growth since 1933 when the data begin.

CBS Climate Hype

Dan Rather: a shill for the environmental lobby? You decide. Witness two adjacent articles on the CBS News website, evidence of the network's latest mis-fired salvo in the global warming battle.

In the first, "Antarctica Just Got Smaller," from the AP newswire, Matthew Lazzara, senior researcher at the University of Wisconsin, describes the separation of a 4,200 square mile iceberg from the Ross Ice Shelf as an event that happens with some regularity: "I guess a berg of this magnitude breaks off every 50 to 100 years, and it's been that long for one to break off this size on this end of the continent." Lazzara claims it’s just too early to chalk this event up to global warming. "The ice shelves, this is their job. They calve off icebergs all the time, but they're usually much smaller."

Now for the spin: in a story reported on the evening news only hours later (and subsequently published on the Internet), "Sea Temperatures On The Rise," correspondent Russ Mitchell rounded up the usual suspects for a global warming love-in. According to the article, the new iceberg "is a casualty due in part to a world in hot water," which the story mysteriously attributes to "scientists," none of whom would apparently let their name be tied to such an irresponsible remark. Sydney Levitus used the segment as a platform to push his latest NOAA research on ocean warming-funding-time must be near. Scare-monger David Hawkins of the Natural Resource Defense Council chimes in, "We need to be careful. We are destroying the atmosphere. Things are getting worse."

:hmm:
 
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Could H.A.A.R.P., in addition to other factors, be accelerating this process?
 
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Makeherhappy said:
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Could H.A.A.R.P., in addition to other factors, be accelerating this process?
Accelerating what process ? Global warming? While the earth is getting
warmer lately, the warming is well within what climatologists thought of
as a natural variation. If the extra CO2 and Methane is the sole cause
f the warming, then the earth should actually be warmer than what it is
now. None of the models put forth by the "industry is evil" lobby have
been accurate. And 30 years ago, the same "industry is evil" lobby said
that we were causing another Ice Age with all the particulate that we
were dumping into the atmosphere. Many even proposed that we dump
soot on some glaciers to get them to melt ! Also, while there are more
(and stronger) hurricanes recently, that has only been the case in the
Atlantic. In the Pacific and Indian oceans, there have been fewer and
weaker storms. There are still about 90 tropical cyclones a year,
according to the national hurricane center.

What I'm saying is that while I don't think it's the best idea to keep pumping
alot of CO2 and Methane into the air, I don't think it's the doom and gloom
that a lot of people say it is. They have been saying it forever about many
different things.
 
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Accelerating what process ? Global warming? While the earth is getting warmer lately, the warming is well within what climatologists thought of as a natural variation.

?????????wtf? From the information I have heard the particulate pollution in the air, which is the cause of many breathing problems, is causing a 1.5 degree chilling effect on the atmosphere while C02 emissions are causing a 4.5 degree warming effect. I also have read that soon when enough ice melts in Greenland and elsewhere there will be no way to reverse what has been put into motion and a 25 meter ocean level rise will occur by 2100. The NASA climatologist who Bush tried to silence said that.

The warming of the planet on the scale occurring presently and at the rate forecast hasnt happened in 50,000 years and in some of the worst forecasts that assume no change in pollutant outputs they havent occurred in 50 million years.


The human race is destroying the planet. I don't know if science is on track to provide us with an alternative living space. At least we'll be able to genetically add gills so we can live comfortably in water world. Time to practice eating thermometers to get a taste for mercury.
 
Dolemite said:
?????????wtf? From the information I have heard the particulate pollution in the air, which is the cause of many breathing problems, is causing a 1.5 degree chilling effect on the atmosphere while C02 emissions are causing a 4.5 degree warming effect. I also have read that soon when enough ice melts in Greenland and elsewhere there will be no way to reverse what has been put into motion and a 25 meter ocean level rise will occur by 2100. The NASA climatologist who Bush tried to silence said that.

The warming of the planet on the scale occurring presently and at the rate forecast hasnt happened in 50,000 years and in some of the worst forecasts that assume no change in pollutant outputs they havent occurred in 50 million years.


The human race is destroying the planet. I don't know if science is on track to provide us with an alternative living space. At least we'll be able to genetically add gills so we can live comfortably in water world. Time to practice eating thermometers to get a taste for mercury.
Thanks for your input.
1. The damage from particulate pollution is very localized, for example the highest concentration in childhood asthma is in Harlem. There are 3 bus depots in that area. However, the rest fof the city does not have that much of a bump in childhood asthma. And, the biggest aggravating factor in athsma as a whole is twofold. Part of it is combination of lowering the threshold of what constitutes asthma and (of all things) roach droppings, which are highly allergenic. So, unless your right on top of a bus depot, the cleaner your house, the healthier your lungs will be.
2. While I totally disagree with Bush changing the report the scientist submitted, Greenland was much warmer and greener before than it is now. It was much greener when the Vikings were there, and lefy left when the warmiing trend reversed, and the glaciers survived. Also, none of the projections that the climatologists used have been accurate. I googled warming predictions from 20 and 10 years ago and none of them have been anywhere near accurate, and included variables up to several times the projected change. Also, the scientist who first postulated that mankind is warming and harming the planet (Dr. James Hanson) backed off of his early projections and stated that he cannot say for sure how CO2 levels will affect worldwide temps, but still says they will rise even though his predictions were a bust.
3. Also, I think it is a supreme incidence of arrogance to think that we are destroying the planet. We couldn't if we tried. The most we could do is cause the earth to be unable to sustain us, and a fraction of other life on this planet. Just as a measure of scale, a Cat 3 hurricane releases more energy than is contained in every nuclear weapon on the planet. There are probably a dozen of these a year. This planet has been repeatedly struck by asteroids that have wiped out more than 80% of the species on this planet, and the planet is biologically diverse now than at any other time in the planets history.

Do me a favor, please look at this page http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

and holla back.
 
article about the program i watched yesterday on PBS



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to point 3)
destroying the earth didnt mean causing it to explode

the notion that humans could make earth totally uninhabitable for humans is a real notion- ever hear of a nuclear winter?


cat3 hurricanes dont irradiate the globe with radioactive material with million year half lifes and they dont melt cement so, gimme a cat 3 anyday over a 10,000 megaton nuke

i dont know about u, but makin this island of the milkyway uninhabitable for humans is a bad thing for me considering my abilities to bend space time for travel purposes are on hold for now
:)
 
Dolemite said:
to point 3)
destroying the earth didnt mean causing it to explode

the notion that humans could make earth totally uninhabitable for humans is a real notion- ever hear of a nuclear winter?


cat3 hurricanes dont irradiate the globe with radioactive material with million year half lifes and they dont melt cement so, gimme a cat 3 anyday over a 10,000 megaton nuke

i dont know about u, but makin this island of the milkyway uninhabitable for humans is a bad thing for me considering my abilities to bend space time for travel purposes are on hold for now
:)
My bad. I'm not saying that we can't fuck up the earth for us, but that we can't destroy it. I should have used my usual closing line that we are not committing planetcide, but suicide. Although I don't think we are doing that either. The chances of a nuclear winter are quite unlikely too. But that is a discussion for another time.
 
Fuckallyall said:
Accelerating what process ? Global warming? While the earth is getting warmer lately, the warming is well within what climatologists thought of as a natural variation. If the extra CO2 and Methane is the sole cause of the warming, then the earth should actually be warmer than what it is now. None of the models put forth by the "industry is evil" lobby have been accurate. And 30 years ago, the same "industry is evil" lobby said that we were causing another Ice Age with all the particulate that we were dumping into the atmosphere. Many even proposed that we dump soot on some glaciers to get them to melt ! Also, while there are more (and stronger) hurricanes recently, that has only been the case in the Atlantic. In the Pacific and Indian oceans, there have been fewer and weaker storms. There are still about 90 tropical cyclones a year, according to the national hurricane center.
What I'm saying is that while I don't think it's the best idea to keep pumping alot of CO2 and Methane into the air, I don't think it's the doom and gloom that a lot of people say it is. They have been saying it forever about many different things.


I'm reading an interesting book about H.A.A.R.P., Angels Don't Play This Haarp. If HAARP does, what scientists say it can do, it could be a contributing factor.

HAARP will zap the upper atmosphere with a focused and steerable electromagnetic beam. It is an advanced model of an "ionospheric heater." (The ionosphere is the electrically-charged sphere surrounding Earth's upper atmosphere. It ranges between 40 to 60 miles above the surface of the Earth.)

Key word there, "heater."

With numerous HAARP locations around the world (over 50), could that not be an accelerating and/or controlling element?

Be easy.
 
Makeherhappy said:
I'm reading an interesting book about H.A.A.R.P., Angels Don't Play This Haarp. If HAARP does, what scientists say it can do, it could be a contributing factor.

HAARP will zap the upper atmosphere with a focused and steerable electromagnetic beam. It is an advanced model of an "ionospheric heater." (The ionosphere is the electrically-charged sphere surrounding Earth's upper atmosphere. It ranges between 40 to 60 miles above the surface of the Earth.)

Key word there, "heater."

With numerous HAARP locations around the world (over 50), could that not be an accelerating and/or controlling element?

Be easy.
Good luck with that happening, considering the fact that the earth gets hit with as much energy from the sun in 30 days as mankind has used in its entire history. The amount of energy needed to heat approximately a 100,000 feet thick layer os thin air after passing through more than half a million feet of denser air would be staggering, and probably impossible. I kow the concept is there, but so is the concept for perpetual energy. Holla.

And just to get back to the subject, haven't you noticed trhat scientists are always talking about what is going to happen, as opposed to what's happened. Do you know why ? It's because NONE of the calculations have been anywhere near accurate. Think about that.
 
Fuckallyall said:
Good luck with that happening, considering the fact that the earth gets hit with as much energy from the sun in 30 days as mankind has used in its entire history. The amount of energy needed to heat approximately a 100,000 feet thick layer os thin air after passing through more than half a million feet of denser air would be staggering, and probably impossible. I kow the concept is there, but so is the concept for perpetual energy. Holla.

By your last statement, you have assumed that I said HAARP IS accelerating global warming. If you read my original post, a question was posed, not a statement. Your right, it would take a lot of energy. Why is it probably impossible? You must have above top secret clearance to know that. It is also possible to have something to produce that energy. Free energy is there, and....



Fuckallyall said:
And just to get back to the subject, haven't you noticed trhat scientists are always talking about what is going to happen, as opposed to what's happened. Do you know why ? It's because NONE of the calculations have been anywhere near accurate. Think about that.

I've noticed that, and that's a problem. Maybe "they" should take a look at what happened, so what do continue to repeat and/or accelerate the out come of what might happen.

Ponder on those.
 
Makeherhappy said:
By your last statement, you have assumed that I said HAARP IS accelerating global warming. If you read my original post, a question was posed, not a statement. Your right, it would take a lot of energy. Why is it probably impossible? You must have above top secret clearance to know that. It is also possible to have something to produce that energy. Free energy is there, and....





I've noticed that, and that's a problem. Maybe "they" should take a look at what happened, so what do continue to repeat and/or accelerate the out come of what might happen.

Ponder on those.

No, I did not assume that is what you meant at all. And my post did not insinuate that at all. And read my reply again to see why it is probably impossible. It had to do with how much energy from the Sun that already hits us. And if the planet already handles that much energy, anything else we do would be the equivelant of trying to stop a train with a feather.


And as to your second point, they have taken a look, and that is where some of the calculus for thier predictions came from. However, there is no proof whatsoever that man has influenced the weather with two exceptions
A: The radiant effect of lage swaths of land that are blacktopped and raise the air temperature during the day. And (this is very interesting), there was none of the expected rise in the nearby surface water temperature.
B. The seeding of clouds in small rain squalls. They get about an extra 20%-30% of rain out of them.

With that in mind, as well as the fact that there seems to be not as much of a correlation between the rise of CO2 and water/Air temperatures as have been expected, the panic is hollow and meant to be a political, not practical, move.

And another thing relating to the above paragraph: in examining Ice cores and tree growth. There have been many times in the weather record that shows that CO2 rises came AFTER (and because of) the warming, and there have been coolings with amounts of CO2 that should have occured in warmer enviroments. And, there were not always large volcanic eruptions present either. Holla.
 
Makeherhappy said:
By your last statement, you have assumed that I said HAARP IS accelerating global warming. If you read my original post, a question was posed, not a statement. Your right, it would take a lot of energy. Why is it probably impossible? You must have above top secret clearance to know that. It is also possible to have something to produce that energy. Free energy is there, and....





I've noticed that, and that's a problem. Maybe "they" should take a look at what happened, so what do continue to repeat and/or accelerate the out come of what might happen.

Ponder on those.
see above
 
Fuckallyall said:
No, I did not assume that is what you meant at all. And my post did not insinuate that at all. And read my reply again to see why it is probably impossible. It had to do with how much energy from the Sun that already hits us. And if the planet already handles that much energy, anything else we do would be the equivelant of trying to stop a train with a feather.
Sorry for the initial false assumption.


Fuckallyall said:
And as to your second point, they have taken a look, and that is where some of the calculus for thier predictions came from. However, there is no proof whatsoever that man has influenced the weather with two exceptions
A: The radiant effect of lage swaths of land that are blacktopped and raise the air temperature during the day. And (this is very interesting), there was none of the expected rise in the nearby surface water temperature.
B. The seeding of clouds in small rain squalls. They get about an extra 20%-30% of rain out of them.

Someone has some type of proof.

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/s517.html



Fuckallyall said:
With that in mind, as well as the fact that there seems to be not as much of a correlation between the rise of CO2 and water/Air temperatures as have been expected, the panic is hollow and meant to be a political, not practical, move.

Are you saying that this is political? Who's to gain?
 
Makeherhappy said:
Sorry for the initial false assumption.




Someone has some type of proof.

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/s517.html





Are you saying that this is political? Who's to gain?

The link you make is to a bill. I do not know if it is enacted or not, but for the sake of arguement let's say it was.
A. It calls only for studies of weather change, and
B. One of the things it talks about already exists (cloud seeding).

If having a bill is evidence of weather control, than that means
1. We got rid of poverty
2. We got rid of Castro
3. We got rid of Communism
4. We saved the family farmer
as well as a host of other things, because we have had bills passed in regards to the things I mentioned.

As far as the political, there are politics ALL over this issue. You have mentioned it yourself often when you say that big business is looking to not be controlled in thier pollution or land use through legislation. Also you those on the other side who want mankind to be more "earth friendly" (even while they benefit greatly from the technology they criticize). Look at the websites of some of the more active enviromental groups and see if you don't find a significant socialist leaning there and holla back. Peace.

P.S. just to stay on message, try to find any accurate predictors of how the weather has been effected by humanity.
 
Fuckallyall said:
The link you make is to a bill. I do not know if it is enacted or not, but for the sake of arguement let's say it was.
A. It calls only for studies of weather change, and
B. One of the things it talks about already exists (cloud seeding).

Maybe you should reread the purpose again,

"It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development. "

Where did you see study of weather change. I see modification policy. I pointed you to that, because you just focused on the seeds. Everyone knows about the seeding of the clouds, but what other classified or unclassified operations are going on? :hmm:

Fuckallyall said:
If having a bill is evidence of weather control, than that means
1. We got rid of poverty
2. We got rid of Castro
3. We got rid of Communism
4. We saved the family farmer
as well as a host of other things, because we have had bills passed in regards to the things I mentioned.

Someone or people have been doing test besides seeding the clouds to alter or modify the weather. And to think different is closed minded. That's like the arguement we are the only people in this universe. :smh:

Fuckallyall said:
As far as the political, there are politics ALL over this issue. You have mentioned it yourself often when you say that big business is looking to not be controlled in thier pollution or land use through legislation. Also you those on the other side who want mankind to be more "earth friendly" (even while they benefit greatly from the technology they criticize). Look at the websites of some of the more active enviromental groups and see if you don't find a significant socialist leaning there and holla back. Peace.

I mentioned what?
Also you those? me, who, what?
Now you are Assuming. Clear up your wording and holla back.

Fuckallyall said:
P.S. just to stay on message, try to find any accurate predictors of how the weather has been effected by humanity.

Been on message, I simply posted,

"Could H.A.A.R.P., in addition to other factors, be accelerating this process?"
You jumped in with the CO2 and the blah blah blah. That is the stuff we know about.

What don't we know about?
OPEN YOUR MIND

:dance:
 
Polar bears on thin ice?

From the Washington Times

Polar bears on thin ice?
By H. Sterling Burnett
Published May 15, 2006


Polar bears are cute. Just ask the marketing executives at Coca-Cola which used animated polar bears to hawk their wares in recent years. Bears, pandas, lions and elephants are "charismatic megafauna" -- meaning basically cute animals that people care about. If you want to sell a product, or a cause, just tie it to one of these animals and you've got the attention of millions of people; kids and adults alike.
Thus, environmental alarmists have made much of research claiming the Arctic's great white bear faces extinction from human-caused global warming. Snails, snakes and spiders withering in the sun just don't pack the same emotional punch as a cuddly, furry polar bear slipping beneath the melting ice.
Fortunately, a new study by David Legates, director of the University of Delaware's Center for Climatic Research, throws cold water on the claim global warming threatens polar bears survival.
Mr. Legates critiques the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment that proclaimed Arctic air temperature trends strongly indicate global warming, causing polar ice caps and glaciers to melt. However, Mr. Legates says, the Assessment ignored data that undermine these claims.
For example, coastal stations in Greenland are cooling and average summer air temperatures at the summit of the Greenland Ice Sheet have decreased by 4 degrees Fahrenheit per decade since measurements began in 1987. In addition, records from Russian coastal stations show the extent and thickness of sea ice has varied greatly over 60- to 80-year periods during the last 125 years. Moreover, the maximum air temperature they report for the 20th century was in 1938, when it was nearly four-tenths of a degree Fahrenheit warmer than the air temperature in 2000.
Ice core data from Baffin Island and sea core sediments from the Chukchi Sea also show that even if there is warming, it has occurred before. In Alaska, the onset of a climatic shift -- a warming -- in 1976-1977 ended the multidecade cold trend in the mid-20th century returning temperatures to those of the early 20th century.
In addition, a study commissioned by Canada's Fisheries and Oceans Department examined the relationship between air temperature and sea ice coverage, concluding, "the possible impact of global warming appears to play a minor role in changes to Arctic sea ice."
According to the Arctic Assessment the threat to polar bears is threefold: changes in rainfall or snowfall amounts or patterns could affect the ability of bears primary prey species (seals) to successfully reproduce; decreased sea ice could result in greater number of polar bears drowning or living more on land, negatively affecting their diet by forcing them to use their fat stores prior to hibernation; and unusual warm spells could cause the collapse of winter dens or force more bears into less desirable den areas.
Though uniquely adapted to the Arctic, polar bears are not wedded solely to its coldest parts nor a specific Arctic diet. Aside from a variety of seals, they eat fish, kelp, caribou, ducks, sea birds, the occasional beluga whale and musk ox and scavenged whale and walrus carcasses.
Interestingly, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) has also written on the threats posed to polar bears from global warming. But, their own data on polar bear populations contradict claims that rising air temperatures are causing a decline in polar bear populations.
According to the WWF there are some 22,000 polar bears in about 20 distinct populations worldwide. Only two bear populations -- accounting for about 16.4 percent of the total -- are decreasing, and they are in areas where air temperatures have actually fallen, such as the Baffin Bay region. By contrast, another two populations -- about 13.6 percent of the total number -- are growing and they live in areas were air temperatures have risen, near the Bering Strait and the Chukchi Sea.
As for the rest, 10 populations -- comprising about 45.4 percent of the total -- are stable, and the status of the remaining six is unknown. Conclusion: based on the available evidence there is little reason to believe the current warming trend will lead to extinction of polar bears.
These bears have survived for thousands of years, during both colder and warmer periods, and their populations are by and large in good shape. Polar bears may face many threats, but global warming is not primary among them. Global warming alarmists are like the wizard of Oz, asking the public fear the spectacle, but not to pull back the curtain and unmask them for the charlatans they are.
 
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ENVIRONMENT:
New Data Clearly Link Storms and Warming

Stephen Leahy

BROOKLIN, Canada, Jun 7 (IPS) - Canada's leading scientific society on climate called for urgent government action on climate change at its most recent national conference last week.

Stronger and more frequent hurricanes in summer and stronger winter storms are clearly the result of climate change, according to new scientific studies reported at the 40th annual Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS) congress in Toronto.

"Climate change is real, the Kyoto Protocol is an important first step, but we need to do a lot more," Ian Rutherford, CMOS executive-director, told IPS.

"(T)he scientific evidence dictates that in order to stabilise the climate, global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions need to go far beyond those mandated under this Kyoto Protocol," said a statement endorsed by the CMOS membership representing more than 800 public and private scientists.

Although not the first time the Society has made public statements, it has been quite vocal about climate change of late. Part of the reason is that Canada's new Conservative government does not support the Kyoto Protocol for lower emissions of greenhouse gases, and opposed stricter emissions for a post-Kyoto agreement at a United Nations meeting in Bonn in May.

Another reason is that a small, previously invisible group of global warming sceptics called the Friends of Science are suddenly receiving attention from the Canadian government and media.

Full article: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33533
 
GET YOU HOT said:
ENVIRONMENT:
New Data Clearly Link Storms and Warming

Stephen Leahy

BROOKLIN, Canada, Jun 7 (IPS) - Canada's leading scientific society on climate called for urgent government action on climate change at its most recent national conference last week.

Stronger and more frequent hurricanes in summer and stronger winter storms are clearly the result of climate change, according to new scientific studies reported at the 40th annual Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS) congress in Toronto.

"Climate change is real, the Kyoto Protocol is an important first step, but we need to do a lot more," Ian Rutherford, CMOS executive-director, told IPS.

"(T)he scientific evidence dictates that in order to stabilise the climate, global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions need to go far beyond those mandated under this Kyoto Protocol," said a statement endorsed by the CMOS membership representing more than 800 public and private scientists.

Although not the first time the Society has made public statements, it has been quite vocal about climate change of late. Part of the reason is that Canada's new Conservative government does not support the Kyoto Protocol for lower emissions of greenhouse gases, and opposed stricter emissions for a post-Kyoto agreement at a United Nations meeting in Bonn in May.

Another reason is that a small, previously invisible group of global warming sceptics called the Friends of Science are suddenly receiving attention from the Canadian government and media.

Full article: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33533

From Science (www.sciencemag.org)

Changes in Tropical Cyclone Number, Duration, and Intensity in a Warming Environment
P. J. Webster,1 G. J. Holland,2 J. A. Curry,1 H.-R. Chang1

We examined the number of tropical cyclones and cyclone days as well as tropical cyclone intensity over the past 35 years, in an environment of increasing sea surface temperature. A large increase was seen in the number and proportion of hurricanes reaching categories 4 and 5. The largest increase occurred in the North Pacific, Indian, and Southwest Pacific Oceans, and the smallest percentage increase occurred in the North Atlantic Ocean. These increases have taken place while the number of cyclones and cyclone days has decreased in all basins except the North Atlantic during the past decade.

1 School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA 30332, USA.
2 National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO, USA.

During the hurricane season of 2004, there were 14 named storms in the North Atlantic, of which 9 achieved hurricane intensity. Four of these hurricanes struck the southeast United States in rapid succession, causing considerable damage and disruption. Analysis of hurricane characteristics in the North Atlantic (1, 2) has shown an increase in hurricane frequency and intensity since 1995. Recently, a causal relationship between increasing hurricane frequency and intensity and increasing sea surface temperature (SST) has been posited (3), assuming an acceleration of the hydrological cycle arising from the nonlinear relation between saturation vapor pressure and temperature (4). The issue of attribution of increased hurricane frequency to increasing SST has resulted in a vigorous debate in the press and in academic circles (5).

Numerous studies have addressed the issue of changes in the global frequency and intensity of hurricanes in the warming world. Our basic conceptual understanding of hurricanes suggests that there could be a relationship between hurricane activity and SST. It is well established that SST > 26°C is a requirement for tropical cyclone formation in the current climate (6, 7). There is also a hypothesized relationship between SST and the maximum potential hurricane intensity (8, 9). However, strong interannual variability in hurricane statistics (10-14) and the possible influence of interannual variability associated with El Niño and the North Atlantic Oscillation (11, 12) make it difficult to discern any trend relative to background SST increases with statistical veracity (8). Factors other than SST have been cited for their role in regulating hurricane characteristics, including vertical shear and mid-tropospheric moisture (15). Global modeling results for doubled CO2 scenarios are contradictory (15-20), with simulations showing a lack of consistency in projecting an increase or decrease in the total number of hurricanes, although most simulations project an increase in hurricane intensity.

Tropical ocean SSTs increased by approximately 0.5°C between 1970 and 2004 (21). Figure 1 shows the SST trends for the tropical cyclone season in each ocean basin. If the Kendall trend analysis is used, trends in each of the ocean basins are significantly different from zero at the 95% confidence level or higher, except for the southwest Pacific Ocean. Here we examine the variations in hurricane characteristics for each ocean basin in the context of the basin SST variations. To this end, we conducted a comprehensive analysis of global tropical cyclone statistics for the satellite era (1970–2004). In each tropical ocean basin, we examined the numbers of tropical storms and hurricanes, the number of storm days, and the hurricane intensity distribution. The tropical cyclone data are derived from the best track archives of the Joint Typhoon Warning Center and of international warning centers, including special compilations and quality control (22).


Fig. 1. Running 5-year mean of SST during the respective hurricane seasons for the principal ocean basins in which hurricanes occur: the North Atlantic Ocean (NATL: 90° to 20°E, 5° to 25°N, June-October), the Western Pacific Ocean (WPAC: 120° to 180°E, 5° to 20°N, May-December), the East Pacific Ocean (EPAC: 90° to 120°W, 5° to 20°N, June-October), the Southwest Pacific Ocean (SPAC: 155° to 180°E, 5° to 20°S, December-April), the North Indian Ocean (NIO: 55° to 90°E, 5° to 20°N, April-May and September-November), and the South Indian Ocean (SIO: 50° to 115°E, 5° to 20°S, November-April). [View Larger Version of this Image (28K GIF file)]


Tropical cyclonic systems attaining surface wind speeds between 18 and 33 m s–1 are referred to as tropical storms. Although storms of intensity >33 m s–1 have different regional names, we will refer to these storms as hurricanes for simplicity. Hurricanes in categories 1 to 5, according to the Saffir-Simpson scale (23), are defined as storms with wind speeds of 33 to 43 m s–1, 43 to 50 m s–1, 50 to 56 m s–1, 56 to 67 m s–1, and >67 m s–1, respectively. We define the ocean basins that support tropical cyclone development as follows: North Atlantic (90° to 20°W, 5° to 25°N), western North Pacific (120° to 180°E, 5° to 20°N), eastern North Pacific (90° to 120°W, 5° to 20°N), South Indian (50° to 115°E, 5°-20°S), North Indian (55° to 90°E, 5°-20°N), and Southwest Pacific (155° to 180°E, 5° to 20°S). Within these basins, total tropical storm days are defined as the total number of days of systems that only reached tropical storm intensity. Total hurricane days refer to systems that attained hurricane status, including the period when a system was at tropical storm intensity. Total tropical cyclone number or days refers to the sum of the statistics for both tropical storms and hurricanes.

Figure 2 shows the time series for the global number of tropical cyclones and the number of cyclone days for the period 1970–2004, for hurricanes, tropical storms, and all cyclonic storms. None of these time series shows a trend that is statistically different from zero over the period (24). However, there is a substantial decadal-scale oscillation that is especially evident in the number of tropical cyclone days. For example, globally, the annual number of tropical cyclone days reached a peak of 870 days around 1995, decreasing by 25% to 600 days by 2003.


Fig. 2. Global time series for 1970–2004 of (A) number of storms and (B) number of storm days for tropical cyclones (hurricanes plus tropical storms; black curves), hurricanes (red curves), and tropical storms (blue curves). Contours indicate the year-by-year variability, and the bold curves show the 5-year running average. [View Larger Version of this Image (34K GIF file)]


Figure 3 shows that in each ocean basin time series, the annual frequency an\ d duration of hurricanes exhibit the same temporal characteristics as the global time series (Fig. 2), with overall trends for the 35-year period that are not statistically different from zero. The exception is the North Atlantic Ocean, which possesses an increasing trend in frequency and duration that is significant at the 99% confidence level. The observation that increases in North Atlantic hurricane characteristics have occurred simultaneously with a statistically significant positive trend in SST has led to the speculation that the changes in both fields are the result of global warming (3).


Fig. 3. Regional time series for 1970–2004 for the NATL, WPAC, EPAC, NIO, and Southern Hemisphere (SIO plus SPAC) for (A) total number of hurricanes and (B) total number of hurricane days. Thin lines indicate the year-by-year statistics. Heavy lines show the 5-year running averages. [View Larger Version of this Image (48K GIF file)]


It is instructive to analyze the relationship between the covariability of SST and hurricane characteristics in two other ocean basins, specifically the eastern and western North Pacific. Decadal variability is particularly evident in the eastern Pacific, where a maximum in the number of storms and the number of storm days in the mid-1980s (19 storms and 150 storm days) has been followed by a general decrease up to the present (15 storms and 100 storm days). This decrease accompanied a rising SST until the 1990–1994 pentad, followed by an SST decrease until the present. In the western North Pacific, where SSTs have risen steadily through the observation period, the number of storms and the number of storm days reach maxima in the mid-1990s before decreasing dramatically over the subsequent 15 years. The greatest change occurs in the number of cyclone days, decreasing by 40% from 1995 to 2003.

In summary, careful analysis of global hurricane data shows that, against a background of increasing SST, no global trend has yet emerged in the number of tropical storms and hurricanes. Only one region, the North Atlantic, shows a statistically significant increase, which commenced in 1995. However, a simple attribution of the increase in numbers of storms to a warming SST environment is not supported, because of the lack of a comparable correlation in other ocean basins where SST is also increasing. The observation that increases in North Atlantic hurricane characteristics have occurred simultaneously with a statistically significant positive trend in SST has led to the speculation that the changes in both fields are the result of global warming (3).

Examination of hurricane intensity (Fig. 4) shows a substantial change in the intensity distribution of hurricanes globally. The number of category 1 hurricanes has remained approximately constant (Fig. 4A) but has decreased monotonically as a percentage of the total number of hurricanes throughout the 35-year period (Fig. 4B). The trend of the sum of hurricane categories 2 and 3 is small also both in number and percentage. In contrast, hurricanes in the strongest categories (4 + 5) have almost doubled in number (50 per pentad in the 1970s to near 90 per pentad during the past decade) and in proportion (from around 20% to around 35% during the same period). These changes occur in all of the ocean basins. A summary of the number and percent of storms by category is given in Table 1, binned for the years 1975–1989 and 1990–2004. This increase in category 4 and 5 hurricanes has not been accompanied by an increase in the actual intensity of the most intense hurricanes: The maximum intensity has remained remarkably static over the past 35 years (solid black curve, Fig. 4A).


Fig. 4. Intensity of hurricanes according to the Saffir-Simpson scale (categories 1 to 5). (A) The total number of category 1 storms (blue curve), the sum of categories 2 and 3 (green), and the sum of categories 4 and 5 (red) in 5-year periods. The bold curve is the maximum hurricane wind speed observed globally (measured in meters per second). The horizontal dashed lines show the 1970–2004 average numbers in each category. (B) Same as (A), except for the percent of the total number of hurricanes in each category class. Dashed lines show average percentages in each category over the 1970–2004 period. [View Larger Version of this Image (23K GIF file)]


Table 1. Change in the number and percentage of hurricanes in categories 4 and 5 for the 15-year periods 1975–1989 and 1990–2004 for the different ocean basins.
Period
Basin 1975–1989
1990–2004
Number Percentage Number Percentage
East Pacific Ocean 36 25 49 35
West Pacific Ocean 85 25 116 41
North Atlantic 16 20 25 25
Southwestern Pacific 10 12 22 28
North Indian 1 8 7 25
South Indian 23 18 50 34

Cyclone intensities around the world are estimated by pattern recognition of satellite features based on the Dvorak scheme (25). The exceptions are the North Atlantic, where there has been continuous aircraft reconnaissance; the eastern North Pacific, which has occasional aircraft reconnaissance; and the western North Pacific, which had aircraft reconnaissance up to the mid-1980s. There have been substantial changes in the manner in which the Dvorak technique has been applied (26). These changes may lead to a trend toward more intense cyclones, but in terms of central pressure (27) and not in terms of maximum winds that are used here. Furthermore, the consistent trends in the North Atlantic and eastern North Pacific, where the Dvorak scheme has been calibrated against aircraft penetrations, give credence to the trends noted here as being independent of the observational and analysis techniques used. In addition, in the Southern Hemisphere and the North Indian Ocean basins, where only satellite data have been used to determine intensity throughout the data period, the same trends are apparent as in the Northern Hemisphere regions.

We deliberately limited this study to the satellite era because of the known biases before this period (28), which means that a comprehensive analysis of longer-period oscillations and trends has not been attempted. There is evidence of a minimum of intense cyclones occurring in the 1970s (11), which could indicate that our observed trend toward more intense cyclones is a reflection of a long-period oscillation. However, the sustained increase over a period of 30 years in the proportion of category 4 and 5 hurricanes indicates that the related oscillation would have to be on a period substantially longer than that observed in previous studies.

We conclude that global data indicate a 30-year trend toward more frequent and intense hurricanes, corroborated by the results of the recent regional assessment (29). This trend is not inconsistent with recent climate model simulations that a doubling of CO2 may increase the frequency of the most intense cyclones (18, 30), although attribution of the 30-year trends to global warming would require a longer global data record and, especially, a deeper understanding of the role of hurricanes in the general circulation of the atmosphere and ocean, even in the present climate state.

(posters note: the model that was used to "predict" more powerful storms came from the "increased" number of powerful storms. The original model called for a greater number of storms AND more powerful storms.)'
References and Notes

* 1. S. B. Goldenberg, C. W. Landsea, A. M. Maestas-Nunez, W. M. Gray, Science 293, 474 (2001).[Abstract/Free Full Text]
* 2. J. B. Elsner, B. Kocher, Geophys. Res. Lett. 27, 129 (2000). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 3. K. E. Trenberth, Science 308, 1753 (2005).[Abstract/Free Full Text]
* 4. K. E. Trenberth et al., Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 84, 1205 (2003). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 5. R. A. Pielke Jr. et al., Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc., in press (available at http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/a...ourse-1762-hurricanes and_global_warming.pdf).
* 6. J. Lighthill et al., Bull. Am. Meterol. Soc. 75, 2147 (1994).
* 7. W. M. Gray, Mon. Weather Rev. 96, 669 (1968). [ISI]
* 8. K. A. Emanuel, Nature 326, 483 (1987). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 9. G. J. Holland, J. Atmos. Sci. 54, 2519 (1997). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 10. M. A. Lander, C. P. Guard, Mon. Weather Rev. 126, 1163 (1998). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 11. C. W. Landsea, R. A. Pielke Jr., A. M. Maestas-Nunez, J. A. Knaff, Clim. Change 42, 89 (1999). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 12. J. C. L. Chan, K. S. Liu, J. Clim. 17, 4590 (2004). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 13. W. M. Gray, Mon. Weather Rev. 112, 1649 (1984). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 14. C. K. Folland, D. E. Parker, A. Colman, R. Washington, in Beyond El Nino: Decadal and Interdecadal Climate Variability, A. Navarra, Ed. (Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 1999), pp. 73-102.
* 15. L. J. Shapiro, S. B. Goldenberg, J. Clim. 11, 578 (1998). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 16. H. G. Houghton et al., Climate Change—2001: The Scientific Basis (Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2001).
* 17. A. Henderson-Sellers et al., Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 79, 19 (1998). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 18. T. R. Knutson, R. E. Tuleya, J. Clim. 17, 3477 (2004). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 19. J. F. Royer, F. Chauvin, B. Timbal, P. Araspin, D. Grimal, Clim. Dyn. 38, 307 (1998). [CrossRef]
* 20. M. Sugi, A. Noda, N. Sato, J. Meteorol. Soc. Jpn. 80, 249 (2002). [CrossRef]
* 21. P. Agudelo, J. A. Curry, Geophys. Res. Lett. 31, Art. No. L22207 (2004).
* 22. C. J. Neumann, in Global Guide to Tropical Cyclone Forecasting, G. J. Holland, Ed. (WMO/TD-560, World Meteorological Organization, Geneva, Switzerland, 1993), chap. 1.
* 23. See www.aoml.noaa.gov/general/lib/laescae.html for a description of the Saffir-Simpson scale.
* 24. R. M. Hirsche, J. R. Slack, R. Smith, Water Resource Res. 18, 107 (1982). [ISI]
* 25. V. F. Dvorak, Mon. Weather Rev. 103, 420 (1975). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 26. C. S. Velden, T. L. Olander, R. M. Zehr, Weather and Forecasting 13, 172 (1998). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 27. J. P. Kossin, C. S. Velden, Mon. Weather Rev. 132, 165 (2004). [CrossRef] [ISI]
* 28. G. J. Holland, Aust. Meteorol. Mag. 29, 169 (1981).
* 29. K. Emanuel, Nature 436, 686 (2005). [CrossRef] [ISI] [Medline]
* 30. See www.prime-intl.co.jp/kyosei-2nd/PDF/24/11_murakami.pdf.
* 31. This research was supported by the Climate Dynamics Division of NSF under award NSF-ATM 0328842 and by the National Center for Atmospheric Research, which is funded by NSF.

Received for publication 22 June 2005. Accepted for publication 18 August 2005.

The editors suggest the following related resources on Science sites:
In Science Magazine

Technical Comments:
Comment on "Changes in Tropical Cyclone Number, Duration, and Intensity in a Warming Environment"
Johnny C. L. Chan
Science 24 March 2006: 1713 | Abstract » | Full Text » | PDF »

Technical Comments:
Response to Comment on "Changes in Tropical Cyclone Number, Duration, and Intensity in a Warming Environment"
P. J. Webster, J. A. Curry, J. Liu, and G. J. Holland
Science 24 March 2006: 1713 | Abstract » | Full Text » | PDF »

News Focus:
ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE:
Is Katrina a Harbinger of Still More Powerful Hurricanes?
Richard A. Kerr
Science 16 September 2005: 1807 | Summary » | Full Text » | PDF »
 
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AND, NOW THIS:


<font size="5"><center>Earth's Climate Warming Abruptly, Scientist Says</font size>
<font size="4">Tropical-Zone Glaciers May Be at Risk of Melting</font size></center>

Washington Post
By Doug Struck
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 27, 2006; Page A03

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Earth's climate is undergoing an abrupt change, ending a cooler period that began with a swift "cold snap" in the tropics 5,200 years ago that coincided with the start of cities, the beginning of calendars and the biblical great flood, a leading expert on glaciers has concluded.

The warming around Earth's tropical belt is a signal suggesting that the "climate system has exceeded a critical threshold," which has sent tropical-zone glaciers in full retreat and will melt them completely "in the near future," said Lonnie G. Thompson, a scientist who for 23 years has been taking core samples from the ancient ice of glaciers.

Thompson, writing with eight other researchers in an article published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, said the ice samples show that the climate can and did cool quickly, and that a similarly abrupt warming change started about 50 years ago. Humans may not have the luxury of adapting to slow changes, he suggests.

"There are thresholds in the system," Thompson said in an interview in his lab at Ohio State University. When they are crossed, "there is the risk of changing the world as we know it to some form in which a lot of people on the planet will be put at risk."

"I think the temperature will continue to rise, the glaciers will continue to melt. Sea levels will continue to rise. I think there is a good indication now that the magnitude of severe storms will rise," he said.

Thompson's work summarizes evidence from around the world and ice core sampling from seven locations in the South American Andes and the Asian Himalayas. It considerably extends the reach of a growing number of scientific findings documenting the historically unusual warming of Earth. A top scientific panel last week endorsed an earlier study, by Penn State professor Michael E. Mann, that concluded the recent warming in the Northern Hemisphere is of a scale probably unseen for 400 to 1,000 years.

Thompson, whose research has focused on glaciers in the high mountains of the tropics, writes that the warming there "is unprecedented for at least two millennia." He teamed with his wife, Ellen Mosley-Thompson, an expert in polar ice sampling, and concluded that the glacial retreat "signals a recent and abrupt change in the Earth's climate system."

Caspar Amman, a scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., said Thompson's "perspective of the changes over the past 2,000 years is striking. Something is definitely different towards the end of the 20th century."

But the finding likely to cause the most debate is Thompson's conclusion that a swift and sudden cooling of the climate five millennia ago occurred simultaneously with key changes in civilizations.

"It represents a time where, for many parts of the world, people ceased to be hunters and gatherers and formed cities," he said. "Many of the modern calendars began around this time. It would also fall in the general time frame of the biblical flood."

Thompson said he does not know what caused the abrupt change -- one possibility is a "mega La Ni?a" shift in upper air currents. But he said the evidence from such diverse sources as Mount Kilimanjaro; African lakes; Greenland and Antarctic ice cores; the Andes and the Alps point to a sudden arrival of cool and often wet conditions, all about the same time.

That time saw cities form in the Nile Valley and Mesopotamia, his paper says, and the end of a humid period in Africa that "seems to have begun and ended abruptly, within decades to a century." In what is now Florida, water levels rose rapidly. In Washington state, glaciers covered whole trees. In the Alps, a mortally wounded hunter nicknamed Otzi was buried quickly by snow and captured within a growing glacier until it melted enough to expose him in 1991.

Theories linking climate change with changes in the history of humans are increasingly popular. The book "The Winds of Change" by Eugene Linden argues that climate shifts accompanied the fall of many civilizations.

Gavin Schmidt, a scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, applauded Thompson's work but said his conclusions about events 5,200 years ago have many skeptics.

"You would have to put that argument as more intriguing rather than definitive," Schmidt said. "There are a number of issues in the tropical ice cores that are problematic for dating things 4,000 to 5,000 years ago."

Thompson and other scientists typically drill down to layers of glaciers put down by snow thousands of years ago. The air bubbles caught in those cores are analyzed to determine the atmosphere at the time. Sediment, insects and pollen are further clues to the climate in ancient history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6062601237.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
 
Al Gore is wrong. There's no "consensus" on global warming

Don't Believe the Hype
Al Gore is wrong. There's no "consensus" on global warming.
BY RICHARD S. LINDZEN
Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:01 a.m.

According to Al Gore's new film "An Inconvenient Truth," we're in for "a planetary emergency": melting ice sheets, huge increases in sea levels, more and stronger hurricanes, and invasions of tropical disease, among other cataclysms--unless we change the way we live now.
Bill Clinton has become the latest evangelist for Mr. Gore's gospel, proclaiming that current weather events show that he and Mr. Gore were right about global warming, and we are all suffering the consequences of President Bush's obtuseness on the matter. And why not? Mr. Gore assures us that "the debate in the scientific community is over."

That statement, which Mr. Gore made in an interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC, ought to have been followed by an asterisk. What exactly is this debate that Mr. Gore is referring to? Is there really a scientific community that is debating all these issues and then somehow agreeing in unison? Far from such a thing being over, it has never been clear to me what this "debate" actually is in the first place.

The media rarely help, of course. When Newsweek featured global warming in a 1988 issue, it was claimed that all scientists agreed. Periodically thereafter it was revealed that although there had been lingering doubts beforehand, now all scientists did indeed agree. Even Mr. Gore qualified his statement on ABC only a few minutes after he made it, clarifying things in an important way. When Mr. Stephanopoulos confronted Mr. Gore with the fact that the best estimates of rising sea levels are far less dire than he suggests in his movie, Mr. Gore defended his claims by noting that scientists "don't have any models that give them a high level of confidence" one way or the other and went on to claim--in his defense--that scientists "don't know. . . . They just don't know."

So, presumably, those scientists do not belong to the "consensus." Yet their research is forced, whether the evidence supports it or not, into Mr. Gore's preferred global-warming template--namely, shrill alarmism. To believe it requires that one ignore the truly inconvenient facts. To take the issue of rising sea levels, these include: that the Arctic was as warm or warmer in 1940; that icebergs have been known since time immemorial; that the evidence so far suggests that the Greenland ice sheet is actually growing on average. A likely result of all this is increased pressure pushing ice off the coastal perimeter of that country, which is depicted so ominously in Mr. Gore's movie. In the absence of factual context, these images are perhaps dire or alarming.

They are less so otherwise. Alpine glaciers have been retreating since the early 19th century, and were advancing for several centuries before that. Since about 1970, many of the glaciers have stopped retreating and some are now advancing again. And, frankly, we don't know why.





The other elements of the global-warming scare scenario are predicated on similar oversights. Malaria, claimed as a byproduct of warming, was once common in Michigan and Siberia and remains common in Siberia--mosquitoes don't require tropical warmth. Hurricanes, too, vary on multidecadal time scales; sea-surface temperature is likely to be an important factor. This temperature, itself, varies on multidecadal time scales. However, questions concerning the origin of the relevant sea-surface temperatures and the nature of trends in hurricane intensity are being hotly argued within the profession.
Even among those arguing, there is general agreement that we can't attribute any particular hurricane to global warming. To be sure, there is one exception, Greg Holland of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., who argues that it must be global warming because he can't think of anything else. While arguments like these, based on lassitude, are becoming rather common in climate assessments, such claims, given the primitive state of weather and climate science, are hardly compelling.

A general characteristic of Mr. Gore's approach is to assiduously ignore the fact that the earth and its climate are dynamic; they are always changing even without any external forcing. To treat all change as something to fear is bad enough; to do so in order to exploit that fear is much worse. Regardless, these items are clearly not issues over which debate is ended--at least not in terms of the actual science.

A clearer claim as to what debate has ended is provided by the environmental journalist Gregg Easterbrook. He concludes that the scientific community now agrees that significant warming is occurring, and that there is clear evidence of human influences on the climate system. This is still a most peculiar claim. At some level, it has never been widely contested. Most of the climate community has agreed since 1988 that global mean temperatures have increased on the order of one degree Fahrenheit over the past century, having risen significantly from about 1919 to 1940, decreased between 1940 and the early '70s, increased again until the '90s, and remaining essentially flat since 1998.

There is also little disagreement that levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have risen from about 280 parts per million by volume in the 19th century to about 387 ppmv today. Finally, there has been no question whatever that carbon dioxide is an infrared absorber (i.e., a greenhouse gas--albeit a minor one), and its increase should theoretically contribute to warming. Indeed, if all else were kept equal, the increase in carbon dioxide should have led to somewhat more warming than has been observed, assuming that the small observed increase was in fact due to increasing carbon dioxide rather than a natural fluctuation in the climate system. Although no cause for alarm rests on this issue, there has been an intense effort to claim that the theoretically expected contribution from additional carbon dioxide has actually been detected.

Given that we do not understand the natural internal variability of climate change, this task is currently impossible. Nevertheless there has been a persistent effort to suggest otherwise, and with surprising impact. Thus, although the conflicted state of the affair was accurately presented in the 1996 text of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the infamous "summary for policy makers" reported ambiguously that "The balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate." This sufficed as the smoking gun for Kyoto.

The next IPCC report again described the problems surrounding what has become known as the attribution issue: that is, to explain what mechanisms are responsible for observed changes in climate. Some deployed the lassitude argument--e.g., we can't think of an alternative--to support human attribution. But the "summary for policy makers" claimed in a manner largely unrelated to the actual text of the report that "In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations."

In a similar vein, the National Academy of Sciences issued a brief (15-page) report responding to questions from the White House. It again enumerated the difficulties with attribution, but again the report was preceded by a front end that ambiguously claimed that "The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability." This was sufficient for CNN's Michelle Mitchell to presciently declare that the report represented a "unanimous decision that global warming is real, is getting worse and is due to man. There is no wiggle room." Well, no.

More recently, a study in the journal Science by the social scientist Nancy Oreskes claimed that a search of the ISI Web of Knowledge Database for the years 1993 to 2003 under the key words "global climate change" produced 928 articles, all of whose abstracts supported what she referred to as the consensus view. A British social scientist, Benny Peiser, checked her procedure and found that only 913 of the 928 articles had abstracts at all, and that only 13 of the remaining 913 explicitly endorsed the so-called consensus view. Several actually opposed it.

Even more recently, the Climate Change Science Program, the Bush administration's coordinating agency for global-warming research, declared it had found "clear evidence of human influences on the climate system." This, for Mr. Easterbrook, meant: "Case closed." What exactly was this evidence? The models imply that greenhouse warming should impact atmospheric temperatures more than surface temperatures, and yet satellite data showed no warming in the atmosphere since 1979. The report showed that selective corrections to the atmospheric data could lead to some warming, thus reducing the conflict between observations and models descriptions of what greenhouse warming should look like. That, to me, means the case is still very much open.





So what, then, is one to make of this alleged debate? I would suggest at least three points.
First, nonscientists generally do not want to bother with understanding the science. Claims of consensus relieve policy types, environmental advocates and politicians of any need to do so. Such claims also serve to intimidate the public and even scientists--especially those outside the area of climate dynamics. Secondly, given that the question of human attribution largely cannot be resolved, its use in promoting visions of disaster constitutes nothing so much as a bait-and-switch scam. That is an inauspicious beginning to what Mr. Gore claims is not a political issue but a "moral" crusade.

Lastly, there is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition. An earlier attempt at this was accompanied by tragedy. Perhaps Marx was right. This time around we may have farce--if we're lucky.

Mr. Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597
 
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