It's sad but true. You got to any Jazz Club and better than half the Audience is white. I've been going to Blues Alley from time to time for about 20 years or more and that's the way it is. On occasion, you do some Younger Black folks but mostly you see Baby Boomers and older. It's a direct result of underfunding the Arts in our schools. Sadly if it wasn't for Vince Guaraldi, A Tribe called Quest, and Lisa Simpson a lot of Us would never have heard any Jazz at all.
Any Straight-Ahead Jazz Lovers Left? Let's Talk!!
- Thread starter Rezn8
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It's sad but true. You got to any Jazz Club and better than half the Audience is white. I've been going to Blues Alley from time to time for about 20 years or more and that's the way it is. On occasion, you do some Younger Black folks but mostly you see Baby Boomers and older. It's a direct result of underfunding the Arts in our schools. Sadly if it wasn't for Vince Guaraldi, A Tribe called Quest, and Lisa Simpson a lot of Us would never have heard any Jazz at all.
It was extremely hard to narrow my list down. I don't have Miles on my dream team, yet "Kind Of Blue" is my favorite album of any genre of music. There's no slight to Miles though, I just like to hear Lee Morgan on trumpet. Also I don't have Freddie Hubbard and "Red Clay" is one of my favorite tunes ever.
Real talk, I get the chills when I hear Coltrane come in on "Resolution" (A Love Supreme). If I even think about that tune, I'll be humming it all day.
I was going to make a "B" team, then I would have to make a "C" team etc... It wouldn't stop. I wanted to add Yusef Lateef so bad, but I had Eric Dolphy already. I wanted to add Hank Mobley and Donald Byrd as well.
Only in Jazz can a virtuoso like Coltrane be on someone's "B" team. Jazz is the epitome of creativity, expression, and improvisation. It's Man conversing with God in God's language. That's my opinion.
If you haven't already been check out the 18th and Vine district. That's where Negro Leagues and KC Jazz meet. Truly amazing!
If you're doing Blues Alley that means you're in the DMV. I'm here too and before Covid I was a mainstay at Alice's Jazz and Cultural Society. DC's best hidden jazz secret. After they closed Bohemian Caverns I had to find a new spot. Alice's was the lick! Big and small names came to play there and you were practically on the stage with them. Food was great, low cover charge and they encouraged photography and recording the sessions. Couldn't beat it!
This is quite tragic. Our musical heritage is one of the richest on the planet, yet a lot of us have no clue that we're the founders/creators of it.
White folks are masters at analyzing things. They will break some shit down to the last molecule to understand it. That's why they can appreciate Jazz. Jazz is magical to them.
I made it a point to play Jazz in my home. "Stolen Moments" by Oliver Nelson was the first tune that my sons ever heard. When they were born and I was bringing them home, I made sure that Stolen Moments was queued up in my truck. I wanted them to start life hearing something beautiful.
I have no idea where these list came from but these are the definitive players voted as such time and time again by people who really know Jazz. All of them can be cited as creating new methods or even genres of Jazz. I stuck to three or less of each instrument except the piano where Bud has to included.
~~I'll add other instruments later but these are the main ones.
Alto
Bird, Johnny Hodges, Benny Carter
Tenor
Trane, Hawk, Prez
Trumpet/Cornet
Dizz, Miles, Pops
Piano
Art Tatum, Herbie, Oscar Peterson, Bud Powell
Drums
Buddy Rich, everybody else is waaaay behind, then comes Tony Williams, Connie Kay
Bass
Mingus, Ron Carter, Ray Brown
Vibes
Bobby Hutcherson, Bags, Gary Burton
Trombone
JJ Johnson, Curtis Fuller, Jack Teagarden
Flute
James Newton - nobody is close and there are very few Jazz flutists; most are tenors who double-up
~~I'll add other instruments later but these are the main ones.
Alto
Bird, Johnny Hodges, Benny Carter
Tenor
Trane, Hawk, Prez
Trumpet/Cornet
Dizz, Miles, Pops
Piano
Art Tatum, Herbie, Oscar Peterson, Bud Powell
Drums
Buddy Rich, everybody else is waaaay behind, then comes Tony Williams, Connie Kay
Bass
Mingus, Ron Carter, Ray Brown
Vibes
Bobby Hutcherson, Bags, Gary Burton
Trombone
JJ Johnson, Curtis Fuller, Jack Teagarden
Flute
James Newton - nobody is close and there are very few Jazz flutists; most are tenors who double-up
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I have to agree with your assessments concerning the flute. I saw James Newton twice: once he was with Ornette Coleman, and the other time he was solo. That Brother is a virtuoso for real. He can fill a room up with sound, which is not easily done on flute. Good pick there.
No Roy Ayers on vibraphone? Plus I'm not mad at having Diane Rees ranked 4th for female vocalist, but I always thought she was underrated.
Hanging with organist Charles Earland organist right now, Killer Joe at the Key Club in Newark, N,J 1970
Charles Earland - organ
Grover Washington, Jr. - tenor saxophone
Maynard Parker - guitar
Gary Chandler - trumpet
Jesse Kilpatrick - drums
Buddy Caldwell - conga
Charles Earland - organ
Grover Washington, Jr. - tenor saxophone
Maynard Parker - guitar
Gary Chandler - trumpet
Jesse Kilpatrick - drums
Buddy Caldwell - conga
Pretty much all of the Jazz enthusiasts I know all played instruments growing up. A reason for the generational disconnect when it comes to jazz was the approach of many Black Jazz enthusiasts. Black Jazz enthusiasts often talked down to other blacks who didn't appreciate Jazz to the same degree that they did. With it not being associated with dancing, Jazz's entertainment value is solely from the appreciation of it's Art.
Dee Dee Bridgewater is underrated as well.
If you're doing Blues Alley that means you're in the DMV. I'm here too and before Covid I was a mainstay at Alice's Jazz and Cultural Society. DC's best hidden jazz secret. After they closed Bohemian Caverns I had to find a new spot. Alice's was the lick! Big and small names came to play there and you were practically on the stage with them. Food was great, low cover charge and they encouraged photography and recording the sessions. Couldn't beat it!
Sounds good. A new spot opened a little closer to home for me last year. Keystone Korner near the Baltimore inner harbor. https://www.keystonekornerbaltimore.com/
Well some "people" don't consider him jazz. Not me though.
Also, I think the problem we have with jazz is the idea of traditional vs music for the youth/ people. Miles Davis talked about this until his last breath. He stated that jazz has always been music for young people. But, as the young people got old, it became music for old people. He stressed that jazz needed to keep up with the times and embrace the younger generation and not force them to just do what they did. This is why think cats like Robert Glasper are so important right now.
That's wus up! How is the grub?
All true. What has driven jazz to the fringes is the shift in what qualifies for musical entertainment. Sex is now the biggest seller which makes mastery of your craft and actual talent obsolete. If you're cute and don't mind showing some skin you can be a star. The technicians in the background will take care of the sound for you. 50 years ago if you didn't put in the time to learn and master something no one would take you seriously. Yes, the young drive what's popular but they belong to a technology driven generation and there's simply no room in tech for true masters of analog crafts.
Feel free to add those "B" and "C" teams!!! I really wish that you had. There are so many great artists that I absolutely love who are not on my lists, like Blue Mitchell, Wallace Roney (who we just lost and it never even hit this board), Stanley Turrentine, Roy Hargrove, and Stan Getz. In fact, you named three of them in Hank Mobley, Donald Byrd, and Yusef Lateef. I'm not surrounded with many jazz listeners in my world, so I would love to see your lists and welcome any discussion that comes from it. Always great to hear from fellow travelers!!!
Roy Ayers is on the short list of my all-time favorite musicians. I just never considered him a straight-ahead jazz player. I equate him more with funk/fusion. On a side note, Roy Ayers grew up in Los Angeles, in the same neighborhood as the number one vibes player on my list, and learned the instrument from him as a teenager, even though they were both the same age.
Sounds like an old Down Beat Magazine poll with a heavier emphasis on the swing / big band era.
OH HELL YEAH!!!
There's still a few of US out here.
Been so since I was a kid listening to my Grandfather play his records in the 60s - on.
And seen tons of Artists through the decades.
MILES at least 12 times!
I've gone back to listening to a lot of it (along with Classic Rock) these days.
I tend to like my music a bit more "complicated" when I'm listening too.
But the Music nowadays has become "Elitist" of sorts.
It's been an ongoing controversy.
Primarily due to its current listening demographic
Which mostly tends to be Older Whites who have the dollars to support the music.
People I know who work on the business and promotional end lament about this constantly.
And now with COVID, and club shutdowns all over (especially here in NYC), many of the folks I know in the business have told me that they have to work to promote and play in Europe and parts of Asia that have now opened up. It's the only way they are going to break financially. Those countries are willing to pay to bring those Jazz musicians abroad now that COVID has subsides a bit.
There's still a few of US out here.
Been so since I was a kid listening to my Grandfather play his records in the 60s - on.
And seen tons of Artists through the decades.
MILES at least 12 times!
I've gone back to listening to a lot of it (along with Classic Rock) these days.
I tend to like my music a bit more "complicated" when I'm listening too.
But the Music nowadays has become "Elitist" of sorts.
It's been an ongoing controversy.
Primarily due to its current listening demographic
Which mostly tends to be Older Whites who have the dollars to support the music.
People I know who work on the business and promotional end lament about this constantly.
And now with COVID, and club shutdowns all over (especially here in NYC), many of the folks I know in the business have told me that they have to work to promote and play in Europe and parts of Asia that have now opened up. It's the only way they are going to break financially. Those countries are willing to pay to bring those Jazz musicians abroad now that COVID has subsides a bit.
Earland!!! One of the loooooong line of badasses out of Philly!!! Coltrane, Lee Morgan, the Heath Brothers, Earland, Charles Fambrough, McCoy Tyner, Christian McBride... that line of talent out of Philadelphia is serious!!!
Another major problem has been the disappearance of jazz radio. I grew up in the Chicago area, and when I was first exposed to jazz in my early teens, I could turn on WBEE, the 24-hour all-jazz station in Chicago, and listen to straight-ahead jazz to increase my knowledge and appetite for the music. Unless you're fortunate enough to be in an area of the country that has never abandoned jazz radio, like the Bay Area for example, most of the straight-ahead stations were long gone by the mid-80s and were replaced by stations with the "smooth jazz" format. Now, even those stations are gone. It's hard for a young person to like music that they never have an opportunity to hear.
We were leaving him for you to mention!!
We haven't mentioned Bud Powell yet either. Feel free to list your favorites and add to the knowledge!!!
We were leaving him for you to mention!!
Actually, I mentioned both of them.
The thing is, unless there are some better guidelines, just about any genre or sub-genre is going to be mentioned. With the attendant fanatical support. I love music. Always have and I don't gaf what genre anybody else loves as long as it makes you happy. But if we're talking "straight-ahead" Jazz then we're basically talking Post-Bop or Hard-Bop. With the majority of those players coming from Bop.
Every one of the people I mentioned was massively influential in one way or another. Sometimes (like Miles and Dizz) multiple times.
So, to continue, on that moanin' ass B3 that I love so much (turn on that Leslie motherfucker):
Organ
Jimmy Smith, Mary Lou Williams, Larry Young
Female Vocals
Sass, Ella, Lady Day, (I would have put Dinah Washington here but she is perceived as more of a Blues/Pop vocalist but goddamn could she sing some Jazz. Also HM is Anita O'Day, she could swing her ass off).
Male Vocals
Johnny Hartman, Joe Williams, Jon Hendricks (hard to bump out Nat but JH was instrumental in moving many genres of Jazz vocals forward. And his work with L,H&R is non-parrielled.
Mention Sinatra and I'll tell you to get back to me when he figures out how to stay on key. He could swing tho, I'll give him that.
from knee high
Trumpet - Miles Davis
Alto Sax - Cannonball Adderley
Tenor Sax - Sonny Rollins
Guitar - Wes Montgomery
Piano - Oscar Peterson
Vibes - Milt Jackson
Drums - Max Roach
Organ - Cory Henry
Violinist - Jean-Luc Ponty
Female Vocalist - Ella Fitzgerald
Male Vocalist - Billy Eckstine
Alto Sax - Cannonball Adderley
Tenor Sax - Sonny Rollins
Guitar - Wes Montgomery
Piano - Oscar Peterson
Vibes - Milt Jackson
Drums - Max Roach
Organ - Cory Henry
Violinist - Jean-Luc Ponty
Female Vocalist - Ella Fitzgerald
Male Vocalist - Billy Eckstine
Trumpet - Roy Hargrove
Trumpet - Clark Terry
Tenor Sax - Joshua Redman
Tenor Sax - Eddie "Lock Jaw" Davis
Baritone Sax - Pepper Adams
Piano - Thelonius Monk
Drums - Art Blakey
Bass - Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen
Real talk, I know a lot of times on this board people tend to bash white guys. But, if you don't give props to "Rudy Van Gelder", you're just being foolish. He was a recording engineer who captured some of the best music in the history of man; and that is no exaggeration at all. He was the man who put it on wax. I bet the stories he could tell about the great musicians he worked with could fill volumes.
I grew up in the 1970's listening to the cats that most Jazz purists hated(Bob James/CTI....etc)
Since then i've bought hundreds and hundreds of original(or 2nd) pressings of classic Jazz albums.
Here are pictures of some of my records...
!!!! Bro, you're sitting on solid gold!!! Congratulations!!! You might want to safe-deposit those.
.....if you don't give props to "Rudy Van Gelder", you're just being foolish. He was a recording engineer who captured some of the best music in the history of man; and that is no exaggeration at all. He was the man who put it on wax. I bet the stories he could tell about the great musicians he worked with could fill volumes.
I always prayed that Rudy would have written a book about his career before he passed. Imagine recording some of the greatest music of the 20th Century in your own living room!!! You just know the stories he could have told would have been legendary!!! Another guy that took a whole treasure trove of stories to his grave was Teo Macero, the producer at Columbia Records. The stories he could have told about Miles and Monk alone could have filled a book.
I always prayed that Rudy would have written a book about his career before he passed. Imagine recording some of the greatest music of the 20th Century in your own living room!!! You just know the stories he could have told would have been legendary!!! Another guy that took a whole treasure trove of stories to his grave was Teo Macero, the producer at Columbia Records. The stories he could have told about Miles and Monk alone could have filled a book.
It took years to get some of these albums.
Here's a few more..
I grew up in the 1970's listening to the cats that most Jazz purists hated(Bob James/CTI....etc)
Since then i've bought hundreds and hundreds of original(or 2nd) pressings of classic Jazz albums.
Here are pictures of some of my records...
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