Americans are mindless robots under capitalism
- Thread starter MASTERBAKER
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Bruh, I've wrestled with this question for the past day & a half, so I just gotta say it; excuse my lack of diplomacy!
Capitalism is simply using capital to trade. If I trade well, I will profit! Now let's go back; Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. Somebody traded some azz for some shelter, food or somethin AND waalaa; Capitalism was born! This sh*t wasn't created by Reagan. it was born out of the concept that you gotta give something to get something. THE FREE MARKET AT ITS FINEST. That was thousands of years ago
Its cool to be angry at the system but we must challenge the status quo. Since the beginnin of trading, gold & silver have always had value around the world; Hell, its written in the Constitution that only gold & silver shall be legal tender. Why can't silver be used as a competing currency, Why must we only use Federal Reserve Notes (dollars) for all transactions? Who benefits when as a result of FRN's being used in trade? Is it fair? Challenge the status quo!
What we have now is The Powers That Be have created enough Federal Reserve Notes to buy up the world. Have you notice that the whole f*ckin world is in debt? Is it no wonder why these muhfuckaz control the resources of the world? Sure, Bernanke tell us that Gold & Silver are not money..........But the market is telling us different. Ultimately, the market will win!
I'll tell you like this; long after we gone, muhfuckaz is still gon be makin trades to get the things they want. Let's not be forced to use only 1 medium of trade. If silver is not money as Mr. Bernenke says, the FRN will be prefered over silver in a normal transaction, right?
Capitalism is more than using capital to trade. There's political, social and economic aspects to consider. If it was just about trading we wouldn't have a Central Bank or govt so there is power and status involved and thats what pisses people off.
I may be mistaken bro, but the purest see the political, governmental & social aspects as being hindrances to and burdens upon the capitalist concept.
Lamar, Cruise (aw hell, why do anarchist involve themselves in these kinds of pursuits), Fuckallyall, and others: did I mistate the argument ???
But, when I read back over your statement nittie, looks like you're agreeing with the the Lamarian View of Capitalism, am I right ???
Hell, LOL, what the fuck are you saying ???
I may be mistaken bro, but the purest see the political, governmental & social aspects as being hindrances to and burdens upon the capitalist concept.
Lamar, Cruise (aw hell, why do anarchist involve themselves in these kinds of pursuits), Fuckallyall, and others: did I mistate the argument ???
But, when I read back over your statement nittie, looks like you're agreeing with the the Lamarian View of Capitalism, am I right ???
Hell, LOL, what the fuck are you saying ???
Lol I was just responding to Lamar's view on capitalism. It's not just about using capital. A pure capitalist would see social, political and govt as hindrances to doing business but they are part of capitalism nonetheless. Thats why we have social and economic class in this society. It's why we have prisons and people working in coal mines and strippers they are part of the illusion of freedom and democracy called capitalism.
Okay, we're clear here.
Wait a minute; so that I understand you: Are you saying that putting people in prison (presumably without cause) is part of the capitalist program/agenda??? Without agreeing or disagreeing with that point, How so???
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I may be mistaken bro, but the purest see the political, governmental & social aspects as being hindrances to and burdens upon the capitalist concept.
Lamar, Cruise (aw hell, why do anarchist involve themselves in these kinds of pursuits), Fuckallyall, and others: did I mistate the argument ???
But, when I read back over your statement nittie, looks like you're agreeing with the the Lamarian View of Capitalism, am I right ???
Hell, LOL, what the fuck are you saying ???
My conception of capital-ism is that it is just another means of State control.
In fact, all -isms are tools of State control.
The State takes something that occurs naturally, in human relationships, turns it into an -ism, so that it supports the State apparatus.
People then pick the -ism to subject themselves so the State can control them.
Some pick commun-ism.
Some pick social-ism.
Some pick capital-ism.
Some pick environmental-ism.
Some pick conservativ-ism.
Some pick liberal-ism.
and so on.
They are all just tools of the State to keep the masses in control like sheep on a ranch, wheat in the field, crops on a farm, or... mindless robots,
Are you ready to explain how people would get food, water, shelter, and education without anyone working?
Considering you haven't answered even one question asked yet this may be pointless to do but I'm going to ask you two questions.
One is, is anarchISM a tool of State control?
Second is the question you & nittie have avoided answering for a couple of days now, how people would get food, water, shelter, and education without anyone working?
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truth is capitalism works best for gluttonous selfish fuckwads, that only care about themselves and thier ilk, fuck everything and everyone else,...
most folks are more humane than that, but most folks go along to get along..
Fuckin Gorillas and Elephants dont chase other animals down for food, and these two are considered the smartest land animals in existence today.
she makes excellent points, for one is, land should be free,
another great point was, why are you paying more rent every year for the rest of your life, pay rent for ten years and you should own...
your place of rent depreciates every year, which is why you have to keep it up, if it depreciates why isnt your rent doing the same... cmon son...
her main point was extremely valid, and that is, the system is set up to wear you out, wear you down so at the end of the day you are toooo tired to question anything and focus on getting your ass up...
the shit that baffles me is, the laziest do nothing motherfuckas on this planet are the richest mothafuckas on this planet they pay people to literally wash thier asses..
how the fuck do they elude the lazy label just because you can afford to be lazy cocksuckin parasitic bastard.. still makes you a lazy cocksocking parasitic bastard.
like the so called royal family of england.. some of the laziest motherfuckeers to ever exist.... muthafukkkas need to get a real job..
I digress...
she made some very valid points....
Land should be free!! its not like govt custom made it just for YOU!!!
Energy is all around us, and that should be free too.. sucking up the earths blood to be used as energy is one of the biggest scams they got going...
Tesla was about to give the gift of free electricity to the world but that faggot edison and his mafia had other ideas..
btw, I like her videos on white jeebus...hmm cesar.. damn that was some thought provoking shit.... she is on point with that as well...!!
dudes acting like capitalism aint about capitalizing on the masses!!
sooner or later the masses are going to speak out...it wont be this generation, that why they are working hard on some ot shit to dumb down are next generation. Thats why we need to re-evalutate this idiot box called tv and how much we allow are children to be exposed to it...
capitalism rules by propaganda, stupid people who dont understand the war has always been between the haves nots and the have mores.. tooo many fuckin have nots dont know their role...and most of all... its ruled by force/military power... good news your mind > military power, but too many of us have been taught how to give up control of our own thoughts.
the fact that they have to shut Qaddaffi down is because they fear his system using the gold back Dinar instead of the dollar would shut white supremecy and its monetary control of the world down....!!
thats the only reason the cia created some fake ass rebels, there are NO Rebels, only cia fronts.
people are getting fed up with this system of work all your life and we hope you die before we have to give you your just due...
what people are living longer... lets raise the retirement age to 70.....
cmon son..??
most folks are more humane than that, but most folks go along to get along..
Fuckin Gorillas and Elephants dont chase other animals down for food, and these two are considered the smartest land animals in existence today.
she makes excellent points, for one is, land should be free,
another great point was, why are you paying more rent every year for the rest of your life, pay rent for ten years and you should own...
your place of rent depreciates every year, which is why you have to keep it up, if it depreciates why isnt your rent doing the same... cmon son...
her main point was extremely valid, and that is, the system is set up to wear you out, wear you down so at the end of the day you are toooo tired to question anything and focus on getting your ass up...
the shit that baffles me is, the laziest do nothing motherfuckas on this planet are the richest mothafuckas on this planet they pay people to literally wash thier asses..
how the fuck do they elude the lazy label just because you can afford to be lazy cocksuckin parasitic bastard.. still makes you a lazy cocksocking parasitic bastard.
like the so called royal family of england.. some of the laziest motherfuckeers to ever exist.... muthafukkkas need to get a real job..
I digress...
she made some very valid points....
Land should be free!! its not like govt custom made it just for YOU!!!
Energy is all around us, and that should be free too.. sucking up the earths blood to be used as energy is one of the biggest scams they got going...
Tesla was about to give the gift of free electricity to the world but that faggot edison and his mafia had other ideas..
btw, I like her videos on white jeebus...hmm cesar.. damn that was some thought provoking shit.... she is on point with that as well...!!
dudes acting like capitalism aint about capitalizing on the masses!!
sooner or later the masses are going to speak out...it wont be this generation, that why they are working hard on some ot shit to dumb down are next generation. Thats why we need to re-evalutate this idiot box called tv and how much we allow are children to be exposed to it...
capitalism rules by propaganda, stupid people who dont understand the war has always been between the haves nots and the have mores.. tooo many fuckin have nots dont know their role...and most of all... its ruled by force/military power... good news your mind > military power, but too many of us have been taught how to give up control of our own thoughts.
the fact that they have to shut Qaddaffi down is because they fear his system using the gold back Dinar instead of the dollar would shut white supremecy and its monetary control of the world down....!!
thats the only reason the cia created some fake ass rebels, there are NO Rebels, only cia fronts.
people are getting fed up with this system of work all your life and we hope you die before we have to give you your just due...
what people are living longer... lets raise the retirement age to 70.....
cmon son..??
Yes, once something becomes an -ism, it becomes a "legitimate" form of State control.
Usually, some white (or white-approved) scumbag is in charge, getting a fat paycheck, State benefits, and a comfortable lifestyle to "lead" the movement.
Are you saying people won't work to get what they want?
Or, are you saying people need State control to get what they want?
Yes, once something becomes an -ism, it becomes a "legitimate" form of State control.
Usually, some white (or white-approved) scumbag is in charge, getting a fat paycheck, State benefits, and a comfortable lifestyle to "lead" the movement.
Are you saying people won't work to get what they want?
Or, are you saying people need State control to get what they want?
Describe how the economic system you'd like to see would work? Don't disparage capitalism or what you think capitalism is, just tell us how the economic system you'd like to see would function.
Yes I'm saying some people are earmarked for prison. Of course they are convicted of a crime but there is a underclass in this country thats going to end up dead or in prison it's the choices they are presented with. There are over 2 million people in American prisons about 25% of the world's prison population is in the U.S.A.
there should be NO economic system just a collective effort to keep ourselves and our earth as healthy as possible..
first everyone should stay in their natural enviorment, that means if you are meant for cold weather, you should be living in around russia..or the poles.. skin cancer rate will drop over night son..
if you are meant for tropical weather well you have the tropics..
Africa, Caribbian Pacific Islands.
we can share places like new york where we get it in the summer spring, yall get winter fall....
everything is free, everyone works for the better of man and his home the earth...
collectively and in unison free of ego and selfishness and gluttony..
respect for all living things.....
but with the devil on the loose and in charge, this is laughable because capitalisms very existence depends on greed, gluttony and selfishnes... and a PERMANENT UNDERCLASS TO CAPITALIZE OFF OF!
with a whole lot of violence sprinkled on top!!!!
this economic system cannot survive without bombing/murdering brown people every 10 years.....
recently its been every 4 years.....
I am still trying to fiqure why Grenada was attacked out....
So if even anarchism, the total absence of the State, is still a form of State control then what you're saying is that State control cannot be escaped & is inevitable. If my logic is wrong, tell me why.
I suggest you go back & read my post that YOU labeled as an Introduction to the State Manifesto. The entire message of it was that people work for what they want. It was the woman in the video, and subsequently you & Nittie by supporting her statements, that suggested that people should not have to work for things they want like food, water, shelter, and education. The entire argument arose from the contention that these things should somehow be free. I assert that they cannot be free, not in the form in which we consume them, because there is labor involved. If you had really read what I said, you wouldn't ask me if I'm saying "people won't work to get what they want?"
Regarding you asking if I'm "saying people need State control get what they want", no I'm not. You however are saying that since you've made the statement that every "ism" is a form of State control. Even to the point of anarchism being a form of State control. Since, according to your thinking, the State is in control even when the State doesn't exist then the State must be in control in all circumstances regardless of what conditions exists.
If you actually read my posts & were able to comprehend them then you would have realized that I clearly stated I support voluntary exchange between individuals & believe the State should not interfere with people's actions as long as those people don't directly aggress against other people's life and property.
And finally, you still haven't described how people would get these things without people working? Just describe how things would function? Each post you make where you don't even attempt to do so indicates how wanting your philosophy (or lack thereof) truly is. Prove me wrong.
there should be NO economic system just a collective effort to keep ourselves and our earth as healthy as possible..
first everyone should stay in their natural enviorment, that means if you are meant for cold weather, you should be living in around russia..or the poles.. skin cancer rate will drop over night son..
if you are meant for tropical weather well you have the tropics..
Africa, Caribbian Pacific Islands.
we can share places like new york where we get it in the summer spring, yall get winter fall....
everything is free, everyone works for the better of man and his home the earth...
collectively and in unison free of ego and selfishness and gluttony..
respect for all living things.....
but with the devil on the loose and in charge, this is laughable because capitalisms very existence depends on greed, gluttony and selfishnes... and a PERMANENT UNDERCLASS TO CAPITALIZE OFF OF!
with a whole lot of violence sprinkled on top!!!!
this economic system cannot survive without bombing/murdering brown people every 10 years.....
recently its been every 4 years.....
I am still trying to fiqure why Grenada was attacked out....
What you're describing is still an economic system, as well as a social system. Questions:
1) Who decides what each person's "natural environment" is? What do you do with people who don't want to live in that "natural environment" that's chosen for them?
2) For the places we "share", who & how will it be determined how many people can be there at a time, for how long, & what will be at these places for people to do?
3) Who determines what's "for the better of man?" Who will decide what jobs everyone does? How will they make the right decisions? What if you want to do something other than what was chosen for you?
4) How will the people who make these decisions come into this role?
5) How will we ensure people do things free of ego? How can we ensure the "decision makers" for society are "free of ego?"
I never said anyone shouldn't work it's about the distribution of labor and wealth. Why does a Bill Gates amass a 50 billion dollar fortune when the average American doesn't have a thousand dollars in savings. Yet Mr. Gates operating system is still on every computer. The list goes on and on now we are at a point where real estate is losing value, we are fighting pre-emptive wars, the whole system is out of whack there is no common good.
You suggest food, shelter, & education should be free. If they're free then no one has to work to attain them right? Then how would be people attain these things for free in the form we consume them today? Just answer the question, don't keep responding with another question.
You seem to have trouble understanding what the State is.
Call the State a corporation. This corporation sells products. In this case, these products are called -isms.
Some people buy national-ism, some buy corporat-ism, some buy collectiv-ism, some buy rac-ism. The more products (or -isms) the State can sell, the more it makes.
Now, if I plant a seed, grow an apple tree, and sell the apples, for food, clothing, and shelter, some call it work. Some call it capital-ism. Some call it whatever. I don't care what you call it. It served my purpose.
Whether you label it or not, the seed exists, the tree exists, and the apple exists. -ism is just a brand name (imaginary idea) given by the State for REAL things.
You seem stuck on the products of the State, namely -isms. It is as if your thinking is so dominated by State control, that unless an -ism is used to describe it, it cannot exist.
Let me ask you a simple question, "What is work?"
Is a banker "working" when he steals from the less informed?
Is a soldier "working" when he murders the innocent?
Is a politician "working" when he is lying to his constituents?
Did you "work" to make any of the food, clothing, shelter, or fuel you enjoy today?
It is amazing the hypocrisy of the State agent.
dude wtf?? wait for my booK!
you act like you paying me tuition??
I just gave you possibilities not a plan etched in stone, everything will have to be worked out and compromised...
the point is, capitalism is civilized slavery and there are better systems then slave systems.
I admit I am having trouble understanding what your definition of that State is. Sounds like you're saying it is the purveyor of labels which then traps people into thinking within the confines those labels create. You're saying that whatever it is that does this does not have to necessarily be the government. It could be the media, schools, local communities, etc. If this is what you are saying, I agree that this thing you call the State does exist & always will.
But if this is what you're saying, how is my statement about labor & costs an "Introduction to the State Manifesto" when the State encompasses the purveyance of the logic behind any system?
Now going back to my original posts in this thread, I was explaining how things like food, water, shelter, and education in the form we consume them cannot be obtained for free because the labor involved to produce them is a cost in itself. We don't consume them in their natural form. Education, as we are speaking of it, is obviously not a natural product of the earth. While you may believe that the logic that I'm using to explain it has been ingrained in me by "the State", you still have not explained why the logic is incorrect. I'm still waiting for you to do so & explain how you would prefer for human beings to obtain these things. So the wait continues...
That is a simple question. Here's a couple of definitions for the word "work":
1) exertion or effort directed to produce accomplish something
2) something on which exertion or labor is expended
Maybe you consider these definitons of work a product of "the State." But like you've said, regardless of what you call these actions, they do exist.
All the examples you listed are immoral & wrong. But obviously they don't encompass all examples of people working. When firemen put out fires in someone's home they are working. When an obstetrician delivers a newborn that person is working. What was the point of those questions?
No I didn't work to make any of the food, clothing, shelter, or fuel I enjoy today but I did work to consume them. Other people from all over worked in order to produce & deliver these particular things. I worked doing something completely different that people also want done in order to earn money (a medium of exchange) so that I can exchange it for the food, clothing, shelter, fuel, and a number of other things I either need or simply want.
Furthermore, the people who worked to produce the food did so so that they didn't have to also make their own clothing, shelter, & fuel. Instead they were able to earn so that they could exchange their earnings from the one job they did in order to obtain what those working in clothing produced, the ones working to make homes produced, & the ones working to produce the fuel produced. Now they could have toiled to have done all those jobs themselves & they would have spent far, far more time to do so & had have far less of those things to consume (with a lower quality to boot).
Again, you may find this logic incorrect & just something fed to me by "the State." Fine. But explain why the logic is incorrect & what you'd prefer to see happen & why it works better.
No dude you're not describing possibilities because you have no clue how what you proposed could or should be accomplished.
Nor have you explained how capitalism is actually slavery.
& you're in the same camp with Nittie & Cruise now, completely avoiding trying to explain the things you say. I will give you a little credit though, you did propose a system. Thing is, that system you proposed is absolutely impractical. If it were, I think you'd at least attempt to explain how it'd work.
One last thing, I shouldn't have to pay you anything in order for you to explain it to me right? My being educated to this better system should be "free" like everything else shoudn't it? Why would you imply that I should paying you or paying for something that benefits you in order to receive something from you? That defies the logic of the system you claim you wish to see.
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You most certainly could be right. I was enjoying immensly the good back and forth, point/counter. If you would, give us more on the "better systems".
Thanks.
The State is the system of organized control that is backed by violent force. When you see violent force as a means to maintain control, you are seeing State control in action.
It could be the Mafia. It could be the police. It could be Spartans, or Navy SEALs. They are all enforcing control by the State.
European states and their offshoots were organized around monothe-ism, feudal-ism, mercantil-ism, capital-ism, and rac-ism.
African states, with European meddling, were organized around imperial-ism, colonial-ism, and tribal-ism.
The media is not the State, because it has no means of violent force.
Education is not the State, because it has no means of violent force.
The courts, the politicians, and the military are the State.
Mass media, education, and corporations are appendages of the State. They exist to extend and enhance State control.
By definition, local communities are not the State.
I hate the concept of 'education' because it is a State term.
There is human learning. It is natural and occurs in many forms.
Education is conditioning to re-inforce State control.
Your thinking is steeped in education by the State.
I wanted to know what you consider productive activity.
The purpose of the State is to destroy as much of the excess production as possible to keep the people dependent on the State.
For instance, if there is a new oil discovery, the State determines there is a new 'enemy' that needs to be fought.
If there is a new way to increase food output, the State determines there must be an end to hunger.
If there is a new way to travel, the State determines there must be new rules for our safety.
The State must be sure to keep everyone controlled, dependent, and scared for it to survive.
If you consider what the State does as work (or its agents), it tells me what your opinion of work is.
You are determined to have an alternative system to the State, so you can claim this alternative is just another form of the State.
In your world, the State is all that exists.
Let me introduce you to the concept of Society. Society exists without the State. Society does not need the State. Society is the basis for all productive activity.
The State is a leech on society. Society is mankind, free to do as he wishes.
The State, is that part of society, which seeks to control through violent force.
Without the State, society can flourish. With the State, society is eventually destroyed.
The State exists because people have a desire to believe in something bigger than themselves, whether good or bad. So, no matter what society you have, the State will eventually rear its head.
But, that doesn't mean that the alternative to the State is poverty.
The alternative to the State is freedom.
Do I need to describe to you what freedom is?
My girl & I are shaking our heads & laughing at this post because most of the stuff you said we absolutely agree with. It's as if you are completely ignoring a lot of the stuff I've said. I explained a process of exchange & you dismiss me as a member of the State without realizing that this process could & probably would exist even without the State. Describing a process doesn't make me a supporter of the State & labeling the process as a product of the State doesn't make the process evil. Even in a stateless society, people would still work & people would still trade. Labeling the process of work & exchange as a product of the State doesn't negate the need for you to explain why the process is wrong & provide an alternative system that you support.
I think we actually define the State as the same thing. I've had the same views about the State for a while now and how it harms society & keeps people from being free. That's not to say that I agree with every last thing you said just now, but most of it I do. Like I said earlier, I support something very close to anarchism as well. Maybe not absolute anarchy but that's not even the subject in which this debate began.
The argument has, and continues to be, how would people get things like food, water, clothing, and education (or better yet, "human learning") without anyone working? Still waiting for you to answer that. Not only have you clearly been trying to avoid answering this question but your attempts to change the subject have failed. Other people reading this thread realize that you still haven't been able to provide an answer. Just answer this & you & I can end this discussion.
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I must be missing something because you keep asking this question after I gave you the answer.
Let me say it another way...
your food, clothing, and shelter does not come from the State.
It comes from society.
If the State disappears, it does not mean society disappears too.
In other words, the food, clothing, and shelter will still be here when the State is gone.
In fact, there will be more food, clothing, and shelter, it will be better, and more accessible because the State won't be regulating, restricting, and destroying it.
Or, are you trying to imply human nature will change for the worse once the State apparatus is dissolved?
When did I EVER say that the State provided these things. I described how people acquire these things & you seem to be stuck on calling that the State. To this point I still don't know why you think I believe that the State provides any of these things. This entire time I've been talking about how people acquire these things and it never involved the State. Please show me where I said the State provides these things.
& after you do that, describe a better way for people to acquire these things different from the way I said PEOPLE (not the State) provide these things for themselves.
Finally understand this. If you did actually ever answer that question, me doing what you did would be like me then out of no where calling that "Introduction to the State Manifesto." You'd be wondering "what the hell?" "When did I ever say something about the State?"
thats the problem right there, in order for me to really sit and think it out.. to perfection, I need time money and resources..
right now, bills got to be paid.....
capitalism got that matrix working to perfection....!!!
but it can be done!!
It can be done and Lamar flirts with the solution it has to do with trade, bartering and ideas unfortunately we can't seriously discuss solutions here.
You can discuss the solutions here. You simply haven't done so.
Nor have you answered how people would get food, water, shelter, or education for "free." Dude if you can't answer it just say so.
Brainchild I grew frustrated like I'm sure you did when you were trying to explain how these guys make no sense. They feel giving no explanation at all excuses their points. The absence of contrary evidence won't make your point any more valid then freddygoodbud comes through and comes up with this fictional system that in fact will end up being a system.
It's like people who hate political parties say we should get rid of them but people will end up with like ideas and forming a group which is exactly what a political party is. There will be a system regardless of some sort.
I appreciate what you posted Brainchild and wish you could have done it face to face because maybe it would hit home. But then again these guys sound like the type who are going to be against everything by theory just to do so.
It's like people who hate political parties say we should get rid of them but people will end up with like ideas and forming a group which is exactly what a political party is. There will be a system regardless of some sort.
I appreciate what you posted Brainchild and wish you could have done it face to face because maybe it would hit home. But then again these guys sound like the type who are going to be against everything by theory just to do so.
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