AmeriCAN or AmeriCAN'T?

[Nu-Lojik]

After having watched Team USA get spanked in Basketball (our supposed super sport) and now get raped in Baseball I have begun to wonder...where did the American Sports rot begin? We have had this conversation in countless bars, coffee shops and even over the water cooler at work. Anyone here over the age of 35 can remember that when we were playing sports in HS and even as kids that you had to know the fundamentals to even make the team...let alone play any significant amount of time. In watching the WBC, I saw the same flaws that made a mockery of the supposed US dominance in basketball. I saw the little things when Mexico and Canada whupped our collective asses..simple things like hitting behind the runner, hitting the cut off man on throws in from the outfield.... or how about even pitching to the defense? something that the Korean and Japanese teams have perfected. They know that their pitchers are not going to throw 95+ mph heaters so why not use the other 7 position players?
Now I'm going to repeat the same thing I said when the debate arose here about foreign born players come over here and taking over basketball. These guys are coming here and are FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND. True story, my own son is probably going to be a stud tailback as he gets older. In a semi final playoff game last year, I benched his ass for the remainder of a game because he half assed late in the second quarter and missed a key run block. Believe me when i say I got the rest of the team's attention when I benched our best running back. No one is above the team, and all need to (if I may quote Larry Brown) play the game the right way. I challenge all of you to take exception to how our kids are learning the game. So what if your son can jump out of the gym, can he hit a 16 ft jumper? Can he box out or fight for position to get a key rebound? how about if he is a receiver with crazy glue hands, is he going to throw that key down field block when you back breaks a long one? how about if your daughter is a Star forward on her soccer team and she is leading a breakway, will she pass to a teammate that has a much better shot angle? American Athletics can regain its dominance on the world stage again, but it starts with us as parents. Noone in the world is going to just lie down for American teams anymore.

 

[RunawaySlave]

These guys are coming here and are FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND

While I understand what you are saying, I have to respectfully disagree
It's not that players coming over here are more fundamentally sound....
there is a more underlying cause. For one thing, overseas basketball
players may shoot a little better, but are woefully untrained in simple
things like defense and boxing out for rebounds.....

Euro trash players do more FLOPPING around than any US born floppers
like Karl Malone or Reggie Miller. They constantly get burned on defense
Usually having to resort to trying to outscore their opponents rather than
shutting them down....

that's the first thing. But there's more to it.

US atheletes get the same training as foreign players. Even in baseball
But playing professionally, players realize that you do not get PAID as
handsomely for hitting behind the runner as you do for hitting the long
ball.....Of course the Cuban and Japanese players are more fundamentally
sound, because living in those countries, there isn't the race for the
almighty dollar like there is in this country. So a guy hitting .268 with an
On Base Percentage of .412 and 11 HRs gets paid commensurately with
the guy hitting .282 but his OBP is only .308 and has 125 K's with 35 HRs
The players aren't competing against each other for salaries like they are
in this country....

The same goes for basketball. Go out and average 12 PPG with an assist
to turnover ratio of 3.5:1 and 9.7 APG and see if that guy is getting paid
as much as the guy who averages 22.7 PPG, but his A:T is 1.5:1 and he's
only getting 6 APG and his team sucks.....

I'll give you a hint....Stephen Marbury is making 17-20 MILLION for the
next 2 or 3 seasons while Brevin Knight might get a 3 mil or so....Even
if Knight was getting more, he'd still never get what they pay Marbury....
or Francis....or Iverson......or Bryant......

So the reason why the fundamentals of the game aren't implemented
as much on U.S. soil is because the game doesn't recognize it, or
reward it as much as they do the cat who hits 50HRS, or runs for 200
yards and 3 TDs or scores 40PPG on 38FGA per game

Doesn't matter if the star is effective or not, as long as they are good
for attendance. Or as long as fans pay to see substandard play. Even
if the Pistons and Spurs and White Sox and Patriots win because they
are more fundamentally sound that the rest of the league, it won't
matter. The majority of owners just want to see the stands filled to
capacity. And if the fans get tired of suspect play from their home team,
then the owners come up with a new gimmick to keep them coming
out to the ballpark

 

[cranrab]

no answer, but interesting content

as kids that you had to know the fundamentals to even make the team...let alone play any significant amount of time.

i'm not qualified to speak on the decline of american SPORTS in general, but i can speak to the issue of declining quality in BASKETBALL.

the MENTAL approach to the game has eroded to near extinction.

true, fundamentals can be hammered into a novice player, but the student only reaches a level of technical adequacy. if the player can not synthesize the skills s/he has learned IN COMBINATION with an understanding of the mechanics of the GAME, you will have a substandard player. in today's world, that equates to a euro or an american teen.

plenty of young players have poor coaches who WILL give them minutes because they have flashy handles (but usually can't dribble w/o 'carrying over' or 'palming' the ball) or can shoot with range (but don't have the decision making skills to understand when is a good time to shoot or not).

Now I'm going to repeat the same thing I said when the debate arose here about foreign born players come over here and taking over basketball. These guys are coming here and are FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND.

again, i disagree. they are technically proficient, but incomplete players. they are like japanese and white american musicians who attempt to copy lester young, dizzy gillespie, charlie parker or john coltrane. the foreign born student of 'jazz' may have outstanding technical skills, but without the innovation and improvisation, their product will always have the stench of being a poor imitation.

euros are sorry basketball players, AND THEY KNOW IT. until very recently, european leagues had a 2 player limit on americans to preserve parity. nobody wanted their competition to be allowed to import american 'ringers' to slant the playing field.

euro leagues are soft, AND THEY KNOW IT. my good friend and college teammate RETIRED THIS YEAR after 15 seasons playing in europe, including germany, england, belgium, france, and switzerland.

euro coaches suck, AND THEY KNOW IT. coach d'antoni not withstanding, their game time coaching and personnel choices are horrendous. how many euro head coaches are pursued by ncaa schools looking for head coaches? how many euro head coaches are pursued by nba teams looking for head coaches?

peja stojakovic is a great example of a skilled euro shooter. but he lacks the MENTAL TOUGHNESS component that well-schooled american players have. stojakovic's is NOT a factor on D, and his shooting ability disappears when defended by aggressive american defenders who invade his personal space.

No one is above the team, and all need to (if I may quote Larry Brown) play the game the right way. I challenge all of you to take exception to how our kids are learning the game. So what if your son can jump out of the gym, can he hit a 16 ft jumper? Can he box out or fight for position to get a key rebound?

AGREED! the children often suffer when the parents have NO understanding of the game themselves. coaches also have a responsibility to prepare players by teaching a broad array of skills, and NOT simply focusing on those they deem position related.

a 6'8" high school player may play center, but you'd destroy any chances of growth by solely focusing on jump hooks from the pivot. that player should be trained to develop handles and a mid-range game so that s/he is prepared to progress forward.

American Athletics can regain its dominance on the world stage again, but it starts with us as parents. No one in the world is going to just lie down for American teams anymore.

american basktball is still dominant, just not AS dominant. the talent level bar has been drastically lowered over the past 20 years, and the dip has made it appear as though the rest of the world has 'caught up'. in fact, american basketball has simply declined.

penalize back court players who can't dribble without 'carrying over' or 'palming'.

penalize front court players whose can only shoot jump hooks and not jump shots.

penalize ALL OF THE SOFT, SORRY players who, WHEN TRYING TO FINISH STRONG AROUND THE RIM, regularly use the off hand to clear out defenders.

instead of demanding that players work harder to develop skill sets, the nba has mortgaged the quality of its future by changing the rules to accomodate inadequate players (euros and teens).

backcourt clock down to 8 seconds
legal zone D
no handcheck
no faceguarding
EVEN THE DOUBLE DRIBBLE RULE has been altered!