Alan Keyes suing for proof of Obama's citizenship
- Thread starter Ruff Ryder
- Start date
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
heh...
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:
* The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
* It isn't signed.
* No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
* In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
* The certificate number is blacked out.
* The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
* The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."
Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.
We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
pdate, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
Updated: November 1, 2008
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:
* The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
* It isn't signed.
* No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
* In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
* The certificate number is blacked out.
* The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
* The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."
Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.
The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.
We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
pdate, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.
When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."
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Only the whitest and rightest of right wing conservatives take anything Alan Keyes has to say seriously. Every four years he runs for office: US Senate in 1988, 1992, and 2004 and US President in 1996, 2000 and 2008. And he pays himself out of "campaign donations" every time he runs - back in the Senate campaign of 1992 it was $8.463/month, and who knows what he paid himself in 2008 dollars. Out of nearly 127 MILLION votes cast earlier this month, he got 41,067.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes
Obama citizenship lawsuit
Keyes and Markham Robinson, chairman of the American Independent Party and a California candidate for presidential elector, filed a lawsuit on November 14, 2008 against the California Secretary of State, President-elect Barack Obama, and others.<sup id="cite_ref-89" class="reference">[90]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-90" class="reference">[91]</sup> The suit requests that Obama provide documentation that he is a natural born citizen of the United States.<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-0" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-0" class="reference">[93]</sup>
Similar lawsuits were previously filed by citizens in several states, seeking a copy of Obama's long-form birth certificate, and those states include North Carolina,<sup id="cite_ref-93" class="reference">[94]</sup> Ohio,<sup id="cite_ref-94" class="reference">[95]</sup> Pennsylvania,<sup id="cite_ref-95" class="reference">[96]</sup> Hawaii,<sup id="cite_ref-Holmes_96-0" class="reference">[97]</sup> Connecticut,<sup id="cite_ref-97" class="reference">[98]</sup>, New Jersey, Texas and Washington state.<sup id="cite_ref-Holmes_96-1" class="reference">[97]</sup> A major obstacle to such citizen suits has been lack of standing, as none of the plaintiffs were presidential candidates or presidential electors.
Barack Obama's short-form birth certificate<sup class="noprint Inline-Template"></sup> has been posted online at Obama's website Fightthesmears.com as well as Factcheck.org. A short-form birth certificate is different from a long-form. Obama's short form was laser-printed and certified by the State of Hawaii June 6, 2007 as prima facie "evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding".<sup id="cite_ref-98" class="reference">[99]</sup> Keyes is seeking a copy of the original long-form certificate prepared in 1961.<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-1" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-1" class="reference">[93]</sup>
Keyes' petition says that the statement by the head of the Hawaii State Department of Health that she had "personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Senator Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures" is insufficient proof of Obama's citizenship, and that "the only way to verify the exact location of birth is to review a certified copy or the original vault Certificate of Live Birth and compare the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor against the birthing records on file at the hospital noted on the Certificate of the Live Birth".<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-2" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-2" class="reference">[93]</sup>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes
Obama citizenship lawsuit
Keyes and Markham Robinson, chairman of the American Independent Party and a California candidate for presidential elector, filed a lawsuit on November 14, 2008 against the California Secretary of State, President-elect Barack Obama, and others.<sup id="cite_ref-89" class="reference">[90]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-90" class="reference">[91]</sup> The suit requests that Obama provide documentation that he is a natural born citizen of the United States.<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-0" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-0" class="reference">[93]</sup>
Similar lawsuits were previously filed by citizens in several states, seeking a copy of Obama's long-form birth certificate, and those states include North Carolina,<sup id="cite_ref-93" class="reference">[94]</sup> Ohio,<sup id="cite_ref-94" class="reference">[95]</sup> Pennsylvania,<sup id="cite_ref-95" class="reference">[96]</sup> Hawaii,<sup id="cite_ref-Holmes_96-0" class="reference">[97]</sup> Connecticut,<sup id="cite_ref-97" class="reference">[98]</sup>, New Jersey, Texas and Washington state.<sup id="cite_ref-Holmes_96-1" class="reference">[97]</sup> A major obstacle to such citizen suits has been lack of standing, as none of the plaintiffs were presidential candidates or presidential electors.
Barack Obama's short-form birth certificate<sup class="noprint Inline-Template"></sup> has been posted online at Obama's website Fightthesmears.com as well as Factcheck.org. A short-form birth certificate is different from a long-form. Obama's short form was laser-printed and certified by the State of Hawaii June 6, 2007 as prima facie "evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding".<sup id="cite_ref-98" class="reference">[99]</sup> Keyes is seeking a copy of the original long-form certificate prepared in 1961.<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-1" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-1" class="reference">[93]</sup>
Keyes' petition says that the statement by the head of the Hawaii State Department of Health that she had "personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Senator Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures" is insufficient proof of Obama's citizenship, and that "the only way to verify the exact location of birth is to review a certified copy or the original vault Certificate of Live Birth and compare the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor against the birthing records on file at the hospital noted on the Certificate of the Live Birth".<sup id="cite_ref-keyesObamaSuit_91-2" class="reference">[92]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-Union_92-2" class="reference">[93]</sup>
I dont think the question is more about his birth certificate but more so about the law of dual citizenship. I hope you guys know that Mccain was born in Panama.
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