Alan Greenspan Claims War Really About Oil

Obadiah Plainman

Potential Star
Registered
Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan recently stated “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,”.....



Alan Greenspan claims Iraq war was really for oil

From The Sunday Times
September 16, 2007
Graham Paterson


631khnq.jpg


AMERICA’s elder statesman of finance, Alan Greenspan, has shaken the White House by declaring that the prime motive for the war in Iraq was oil.

In his long-awaited memoir, to be published tomorrow, Greenspan, a Republican whose 18-year tenure as head of the US Federal Reserve was widely admired, will also deliver a stinging critique of President George W Bush’s economic policies.

However, it is his view on the motive for the 2003 Iraq invasion that is likely to provoke the most controversy. “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” he says....................................Full Sunday Times Article

Greenspan Criticizes President Bush
 

VegasGuy

Star
OG Investor
"...Oil and the American way of life". Greenspan thought yall might miss that part of his comments so I added them in for balance.

-VG
 

bromack1

Rising Star
Registered
"...Oil and the American way of life". Greenspan thought yall might miss that part of his comments so I added them in for balance.

-VG


Thanks for the clarification.....

Greenspan is the kind of guy from the old Smith Barney commercials.... when he speaks.... everybody listens....

The man has a truly impressive background. I find it interesting how he says he spends his free time reading economic reports. Thats got to be some of the most boring material in the world. For the most part, hearing him say that gives me the incentive to want to make a habit of continuing to read "technical" material in my field as well.
 
Last edited:

kjxxxx

Star
Registered
Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan recently stated “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,”.....





Greenspan Criticizes President Bush


The financial people look at it from different perspective. One view is that he is trying to deflect criticism for this sub-prime mess that we are in now. He is being criticized by some powerful folks who been saying he kept rates too low too long and cut and raised at the wrong times and by too much

There are folks who are getting pissed off at some of the stuff he is saying also and says he is meddling in other country's affairs. The folks in China and England are saying that. They feel he is creating panic.
 

VegasGuy

Star
OG Investor
The financial people look at it from different perspective. One view is that he is trying to deflect criticism for this sub-prime mess that we are in now. He is being criticized by some powerful folks who been saying he kept rates too low too long and cut and raised at the wrong times and by too much

There are folks who are getting pissed off at some of the stuff he is saying also and says he is meddling in other country's affairs. The folks in China and England are saying that. They feel he is creating panic.

From what I read, all of this noise stems from a simple word switch in the story to give the impression Greenspan spoke against the Bush foreign policy when he in fact never did.

-VG
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
You can believe VG or your lying eyes!

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9aCldcgP76c"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9aCldcgP76c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>​
 

nyyyyce

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Why is it, on the way out, or after securing a book deal, do people in this current admin. have an epiphany and realize that "getting the record straight" - way after the fact - is important?
 

kjxxxx

Star
Registered
Why is it, on the way out, or after securing a book deal, do people in this current admin. have an epiphany and realize that "getting the record straight" - way after the fact - is important?

It seems Vegas Guy was correct. The media people spin to make it sound like he was anti Bush and against the war when in fact he thought Saddam should have been taken out.
 

VegasGuy

Star
OG Investor
You can believe VG or your lying eyes!

..

Apples and Oranges pal. Apples and Oranges. Oil was one issue, the issue I was addressing, and this video you posted talks about Tax cuts vs the Bush tax cuts. You're kinda new at this high level form of communication but stick with it. At least you are in the game.

nyyyyce Re: Alan Greenspan Claims War Really About Oil
Why is it, on the way out, or after securing a book deal, do people in this current admin. have an epipany and realize that "getting the record straight" - way after the fact - is important?

That's a good question because it happens across the board. I am still stunned how Al Gore shit on Bill Clinton after working with him for 8 years. Well maybe stunned is too strong a word but suffice it to say they seem to have a lot of regret when they get out.

-VG
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
You can believe VG or your lying eyes!

..

Apples and Oranges pal. Apples and Oranges. Oil was one issue, the issue I was addressing, and this video you posted talks about Tax cuts vs the Bush tax cuts. You're kinda new at this high level form of communication but stick with it. At least you are in the game.



That's a good question because it happens across the board. I am still stunned how Al Gore shit on Bill Clinton after working with him for 8 years. Well maybe stunned is too strong a word but suffice it to say they seem to have a lot of regret when they get out.

-VG

Everyone thought Saddam should have been taken out, but didn’t think it was worth it. GHW ended Dessert Storm because he knew of the consequences. Even Cheney didn’t want it, back in 1992. Was it worth it? Opinion is on thing, facts are another. Listen to THE WORDS, not others spin.
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
That's a good question because it happens across the board. I am still stunned how Al Gore shit on Bill Clinton after working with him for 8 years. Well maybe stunned is too strong a word but suffice it to say they seem to have a lot of regret when they get out.

-VG

One major difference genius, when Clinton left office, the economy was in much better shape, there were not 3000 plus Americans killed in the worse attack on American soil in history and we were not mired in the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history. Stop trying to draw inference between this failed presidency and Clinton’s administration.
 

from504to404

Potential Star
Registered
Man Alan Greenspan was on some BS when he CS G.W tax cuts. How in the hell will you start an open ended war when you need plenty of resources(cash) but also cut taxes. CRAZY!!! :angry:I guess it was like fuck it we will borrow the money from China and Japan. That is why China sending all that bullshit over here now, but you don't hear shit from the white house.:( It's call pay back. Shit Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could see this shit was about OIL. I said he would ran the country in the ground when he got into office. I hate to say this but a told a lot MF this will happen.:smh:
 

GET YOU HOT

Superfly Moderator
BGOL Investor
What he really said is...

“I am not saddened that it is politically convenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: I helped fool the world into thinking Iraq had weapons of mass destruction,”..... he later added that "Bush is a patsy and it's time to kill him off, the window of opportunity for continued freedom is closing, you are becoming very sleepy now, repeat after me..."
 

nyyyyce

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
You can believe VG or your lying eyes!

..

Apples and Oranges pal. Apples and Oranges. Oil was one issue, the issue I was addressing, and this video you posted talks about Tax cuts vs the Bush tax cuts. You're kinda new at this high level form of communication but stick with it. At least you are in the game.



That's a good question because it happens across the board. I am still stunned how Al Gore shit on Bill Clinton after working with him for 8 years. Well maybe stunned is too strong a word but suffice it to say they seem to have a lot of regret when they get out.

-VG



I was actually confining my comments to "this" administration. You know, George Tenet, Colin Powell etc.
 

djdez

Support BGOL
Registered
Thanx OBADIAH PLAINMAN for the info AS USUAL...

I always BELIEVED that this war was about OIL...but its different and reassuring to hear ALAN GREENSPAN say it... Not that his word is GOLDEN, just that he is one of the most INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD and he stands to gain nothing by making this statement...
 

Fuckallyall

Support BGOL
Registered
1. Why is he just saying this now ? A patriot loves his country, not his government.
2. Why did he not address the fact that 14 straight cuts in the Fed were considered too much by most financial experts - the cheapness of the money is what allowed the sub-prime market to expand the way it did.
3. The recession (or correction) that Bush dealt with when he first came into office started while Clinton was in office. Clinton was no better or worse at economics than Bush was.
4. Oil has quadrupled, gas at the pump has only tripled. Think about that.
 

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
1. Why is he just saying this now ? A patriot loves his country, not his government.
2. Why did he not address the fact that 14 straight cuts in the Fed were considered too much by most financial experts - the cheapness of the money is what allowed the sub-prime market to expand the way it did.
3. The recession (or correction) that Bush dealt with when he first came into office started while Clinton was in office. Clinton was no better or worse at economics than Bush was.
4. Oil has quadrupled, gas at the pump has only tripled. Think about that.

If you were to young to understand the difference between what was going on between 1992 and 2000 and 2000 and the present, search this board for my posts. The numbers don’t bear out your statement. Better yet go to the government site such as DOL and the GAO. Clinton and Bush are both corpratists, but Bush is a supply sider, he believes it is better to have wealth at the top and ever one else, live off the crumbs.
 

muckraker10021

Superstar *****
BGOL Investor
If you were to young to understand the difference between what was going on between 1992 and 2000 and 2000 and the present, search this board for my posts. The numbers don’t bear out your statement. Better yet go to the government site such as DOL and the GAO. Clinton and Bush are both corpratists, but Bush is a supply sider, he believes it is better to have wealth at the top and ever one else, live off the crumbs.

<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#0000FF"><b>
Absolutely on point 'thoughtone'. Those stubborn statistics complied by the 'government bean counters' don't lie, despite the "media of mass deception" telling the non-reading, sheep American people that this "Great" economy is lifting all boats.</b></font>

<font face="verdana" size="3" color="#000000">


The “bush crime family” economic policies since they snatched power in December 2000 via a Supreme Court 5-4 decision has been to <s> manage</s> loot the US treasury & the US economy for the sole benefit of trans-national corporations and the top 1% of US income earners.

Has the “bush crime family” succeeded in vacuuming most of the US economic gains $$$$$ into the pockets & coffers of the top 1% of US income earners and trans-national corporations??

They have succeeded in SPECTACULAR fashion.

The fact that this has happened is no longer the subject of debate in the “reality based” community.

Wall street billionaires, labor union economists, right-wing think tank pundits, Democratic & Republican politicians, even president bush all acknowledge what has occurred.

The only debate over this massive wealth injection into the tip of the US economic pyramid was whether any of this wealth would “trickle down”.

It didn’t.

The data compiled by government bureaucrats during the last six years (2000 – 2006) at the Treasury, Commerce, & Labor departments all show the stark reality that the majority of economic gains during the bush administration’s have gone to the Über wealthy.

The consequences of no wage gains for the working poor and the middle class during (2000 – 2006) has resulted in them borrowing billions $$$$$$$ of dollars in order to maintain and increase their lifestyles.

Meanwhile the cost of living (food, gas, clothing, etc) and healthcare have soared.

Americans faced with this economic stress started to use their homes as ATM’s using home equity loans in record numbers.

Given the shrinking pool of Americans who qualified for traditional mortgages (10 -30 year fixed with 5% -20% down payment) the home seller industry in conjunction with Wall street produced increasingly novel & exotic financing methods to sell homes to barely qualified & unqualified home buyers.

The “bush crime family” does not believe in regulated capitalism. Unregulated, Unfettered, Unrestricted, complete ‘Laissez-faire’ economics is their philosophy.

In “BushWorld” when a wedding planner charges a 10% fee on a $30,000 wedding to plan your wedding, he or she will pay normal Federal & state taxes if applicable, on that $3,000 income, which could combine to result in a tax bill as high as 45% depending on which state they live in.

In “BushWorld” when a hedge fund manager charges a 2% management fee on the clients of a $15,000,000,000 (15 Billion) fund, which is $300,000,000 (300 Million) the fee is curiously classified as a capital gain and therefore the maximum tax the hedge fund managers pay is 15% .

In "BushWorld", If big-money biased, special rules, monetary policies result in financial train wreaks like ENRON, or WORLDCOM which financially eviscerates thousands of “hard working Americans” , so what, Fuck them, they are just peons for 'bush crime family' member Ken Lay to screw.

Below is data which explains the dramatic income polarization (disparity in wealth between rich & poor) that has occurred (2000 – 2006) under bush. </font>
<p><hr noshade color="#0000ff" size="6"><hr><p>
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#333333">
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
Americans earned a smaller average income in 2005 than in 2000, the fifth consecutive year that they had to make ends meet with less money than at the peak of the last economic expansion, new government data shows.</b></span>

<div align="right"><!-- MSTableType="layout" --><img src="http://www.plunderbund.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/20070821_tax_graphic.jpg" align="right"></div>
The growth in total incomes was concentrated among those making more than $1 million. The number of such taxpayers grew by more than 26 percent, to 303,817 in 2005, from 239,685 in 2000.

These individuals, who constitute less than a quarter of 1 percent of all taxpayers, reaped almost 47 percent of the total income gains in 2005, compared with 2000.

People with incomes of more than a million dollars also received 62 percent of the savings from the reduced tax rates on long-term capital gains and dividends that President Bush signed into law in 2003, according to a separate analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, a group that points out policies that it says favor the rich.
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
The group's calculations showed that 28 percent of the investment tax cut savings went to just 11,433 of the 134 million taxpayers, those who made $10 million or more, saving them almost $1.9 million each. Over all, this small number of wealthy Americans saved $21.7 billion in taxes on their investment income as a result of the tax-cut law.
</b></span>
The nearly 90 percent of Americans who make less than $100,000 a year saved on average $318 each on their investments. They collected 5.3 percent of the total savings from reduced tax rates on investment income.

The I.R.S. data showed that the number of Americans making less than $25,000 a year shrank, down by 3.2 million, or 5.5 percent.

Nearly half of Americans reported incomes of less than $30,000, and two-thirds make less than $50,000.

The number of taxpayers making more than $100,000 grew by nearly 3.4 million and accounted for more than two-thirds of the growth in the number of returns filed in 2005 compared with those in 2000.
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
The fact that average incomes remained lower in 2005 than five years earlier helps explain why so many Americans report feeling economic stress despite overall growth in the economy. Many Americans are also paying a larger share of their health care costs and have had their retirement benefits reduced, adding to their out-of-pocket costs.
</b></span></font>
<font face="verdana" size="3" color="#0000FF"><b>read the full article that is excerpted above using the link below</b></font>

<font face="arial black" size="4" color="#ff0000">2005 Incomes, On Average, Still Below 2000 Peak<br>By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON - NYT August 21, 2007</font>
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#333333">
Where Is the Debt Coming From?
In the chart below from Yardeni.com, U.S. consumers have been withdrawing money from their houses at record levels. Simultaneously, they have been saving less. The reliance on home equity extraction (increasing mortgage debt) to fuel the economy is similar to stock market investors in the 20's, who were borrowing money to invest in the stock market. As history has shown, once the speculation exhausts itself assets deflate, but the debt still has to be paid back. Unfortunately, the housing bubble has already started its descent.
</font>
personal.gif






<hr noshade color="#0000ff" size="6"><hr>
 

nyyyyce

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#0000FF"><b>
Absolutely on point 'thoughtone'. Those stubborn statistics complied by the 'government bean counters' don't lie, despite the "media of mass deception" telling the non-reading, sheep American people that this "Great" economy is lifting all boats.</b></font>

<font face="verdana" size="3" color="#000000">


The “bush crime family” economic policies since they snatched power in December 2000 via a Supreme Court 5-4 decision has been to <s> manage</s> loot the US treasury & the US economy for the sole benefit of trans-national corporations and the top 1% of US income earners.

Has the “bush crime family” succeeded in vacuuming most of the US economic gains $$$$$ into the pockets & coffers of the top 1% of US income earners and trans-national corporations??

They have succeeded in SPECTACULAR fashion.

The fact that this has happened is no longer the subject of debate in the “reality based” community.

Wall street billionaires, labor union economists, right-wing think tank pundits, Democratic & Republican politicians, even president bush all acknowledge what has occurred.

The only debate over this massive wealth injection into the tip of the US economic pyramid was whether any of this wealth would “trickle down”.

It didn’t.

The data compiled by government bureaucrats during the last six years (2000 – 2006) at the Treasury, Commerce, & Labor departments all show the stark reality that the majority of economic gains during the bush administration’s have gone to the Über wealthy.

The consequences of no wage gains for the working poor and the middle class during (2000 – 2006) has resulted in them borrowing billions $$$$$$$ of dollars in order to maintain and increase their lifestyles.

Meanwhile the cost of living (food, gas, clothing, etc) and healthcare have soared.

Americans faced with this economic stress started to use their homes as ATM’s using home equity loans in record numbers.

Given the shrinking pool of Americans who qualified for traditional mortgages (10 -30 year fixed with 5% -20% down payment) the home seller industry in conjunction with Wall street produced increasingly novel & exotic financing methods to sell homes to barely qualified & unqualified home buyers.

The “bush crime family” does not believe in regulated capitalism. Unregulated, Unfettered, Unrestricted, complete ‘Laissez-faire’ economics is their philosophy.

In “BushWorld” when a wedding planner charges a 10% fee on a $30,000 wedding to plan your wedding, he or she will pay normal Federal & state taxes if applicable, on that $3,000 income, which could combine to result in a tax bill as high as 45% depending on which state they live in.

In “BushWorld” when a hedge fund manager charges a 2% management fee on the clients of a $15,000,000,000 (15 Billion) fund, which is $300,000,000 (300 Million) the fee is curiously classified as a capital gain and therefore the maximum tax the hedge fund managers pay is 15% .

In "BushWorld", If big-money biased, special rules, monetary policies result in financial train wreaks like ENRON, or WORLDCOM which financially eviscerates thousands of “hard working Americans” , so what, Fuck them, they are just peons for 'bush crime family' member Ken Lay to screw.

Below is data which explains the dramatic income polarization (disparity in wealth between rich & poor) that has occurred (2000 – 2006) under bush. </font>
<p><hr noshade color="#0000ff" size="6"><hr><p>
<font face="verdana" size="4"




good info.

:yes:
 

VegasGuy

Star
OG Investor
Muck with all due respect man, get some got damn new glasses. You're killing me with this McDonalds Supersized fonts man.

Let me ask you something since you seem to do a lot this kind of stuff. Did you ever consider the capital gains tax cut happened during the Clinton Administration for the expressed purpose of financing this entire chain of events?

From the first attempt at blowing up the WTC by these radical fucks from overseas to 9/11 to the attack and defeat of Saddam for oil? We are not the only ones who wanted to overthrow Saddam. The chinese wanted his ass gone too since the Clintons are known to get tons of money from operatives of the chinese government anyway.

The only way to get the money to do this was to get it from homeowners since poor folk don't do much but take from the government. Since cutting the capital gains rates is the ONLY way to get money into washington to finance the buildup in the first place. Could it be that Bill Clinton was in on the attack of Iraq? And why is it that the democrats who could stop this war today, are seemingly unable to pull it's funding? Why didn't the democrats carry out what they promised they would do while running for office? What do you think is stopping them?

Could it be, they were in on it too?

-VG
 
Last edited:

thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
The only way to get the money to do this was to get it from homeowners since poor folk don't do much but take from the government. Since cutting the capital gains rates is the ONLY way to get money into washington to finance the buildup in the first place. Could it be that Bill Clinton was in on the attack of Iraq? And why is it that the democrats who could stop this war today, are seemingly unable to pull it's funding? Why didn't the democrats carry out what they promised they would do while running for office? What do you think is stopping them?

Need I say more?
 

Fuckallyall

Support BGOL
Registered
If you were to young to understand the difference between what was going on between 1992 and 2000 and 2000 and the present, search this board for my posts. The numbers don’t bear out your statement. Better yet go to the government site such as DOL and the GAO. Clinton and Bush are both corpratists, but Bush is a supply sider, he believes it is better to have wealth at the top and ever one else, live off the crumbs.

Dog,

I was already a grown man in 1992. Come to think of it, my wife and I were already together, but I digress. I don't need to look at your posts again, because I saw them first run. I have been on this board for 8 years and counting. The numbers definitely do bear exactly what I am saying out. Look at the chart Muck put up. If you notice, persoanl savings started dropping back in guess when ? If you guessed late 1992, you were right. And guess when home equity extraction started to creep up ? 1994. Now, I am not saying it's Clinton's fault, because it isn't. The boom in the housing market, which accounted for most of the wealth generation isn't his to claim either.
The economy isusually too much for one person, even if he is the president, to take claim for. And the only thing they can take claim for is fucking it up on occasion.
 

kjxxxx

Star
Registered
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#0000FF"><b>
Absolutely on point 'thoughtone'. Those stubborn statistics complied by the 'government bean counters' don't lie, despite the "media of mass deception" telling the non-reading, sheep American people that this "Great" economy is lifting all boats.</b></font>

<font face="verdana" size="3" color="#000000">


The “bush crime family” economic policies since they snatched power in December 2000 via a Supreme Court 5-4 decision has been to <s> manage</s> loot the US treasury & the US economy for the sole benefit of trans-national corporations and the top 1% of US income earners.

Has the “bush crime family” succeeded in vacuuming most of the US economic gains $$$$$ into the pockets & coffers of the top 1% of US income earners and trans-national corporations??

They have succeeded in SPECTACULAR fashion.

The fact that this has happened is no longer the subject of debate in the “reality based” community.

Wall street billionaires, labor union economists, right-wing think tank pundits, Democratic & Republican politicians, even president bush all acknowledge what has occurred.

The only debate over this massive wealth injection into the tip of the US economic pyramid was whether any of this wealth would “trickle down”.

It didn’t.

The data compiled by government bureaucrats during the last six years (2000 – 2006) at the Treasury, Commerce, & Labor departments all show the stark reality that the majority of economic gains during the bush administration’s have gone to the Über wealthy.

The consequences of no wage gains for the working poor and the middle class during (2000 – 2006) has resulted in them borrowing billions $$$$$$$ of dollars in order to maintain and increase their lifestyles.

Meanwhile the cost of living (food, gas, clothing, etc) and healthcare have soared.

Americans faced with this economic stress started to use their homes as ATM’s using home equity loans in record numbers.

Given the shrinking pool of Americans who qualified for traditional mortgages (10 -30 year fixed with 5% -20% down payment) the home seller industry in conjunction with Wall street produced increasingly novel & exotic financing methods to sell homes to barely qualified & unqualified home buyers.

The “bush crime family” does not believe in regulated capitalism. Unregulated, Unfettered, Unrestricted, complete ‘Laissez-faire’ economics is their philosophy.

In “BushWorld” when a wedding planner charges a 10% fee on a $30,000 wedding to plan your wedding, he or she will pay normal Federal & state taxes if applicable, on that $3,000 income, which could combine to result in a tax bill as high as 45% depending on which state they live in.

In “BushWorld” when a hedge fund manager charges a 2% management fee on the clients of a $15,000,000,000 (15 Billion) fund, which is $300,000,000 (300 Million) the fee is curiously classified as a capital gain and therefore the maximum tax the hedge fund managers pay is 15% .

In "BushWorld", If big-money biased, special rules, monetary policies result in financial train wreaks like ENRON, or WORLDCOM which financially eviscerates thousands of “hard working Americans” , so what, Fuck them, they are just peons for 'bush crime family' member Ken Lay to screw.

Below is data which explains the dramatic income polarization (disparity in wealth between rich & poor) that has occurred (2000 – 2006) under bush. </font>
<p><hr noshade color="#0000ff" size="6"><hr><p>
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#333333">
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
Americans earned a smaller average income in 2005 than in 2000, the fifth consecutive year that they had to make ends meet with less money than at the peak of the last economic expansion, new government data shows.</b></span>

<div align="right"><!-- MSTableType="layout" --><img src="http://www.plunderbund.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/20070821_tax_graphic.jpg" align="right"></div>
The growth in total incomes was concentrated among those making more than $1 million. The number of such taxpayers grew by more than 26 percent, to 303,817 in 2005, from 239,685 in 2000.

These individuals, who constitute less than a quarter of 1 percent of all taxpayers, reaped almost 47 percent of the total income gains in 2005, compared with 2000.

People with incomes of more than a million dollars also received 62 percent of the savings from the reduced tax rates on long-term capital gains and dividends that President Bush signed into law in 2003, according to a separate analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, a group that points out policies that it says favor the rich.
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
The group's calculations showed that 28 percent of the investment tax cut savings went to just 11,433 of the 134 million taxpayers, those who made $10 million or more, saving them almost $1.9 million each. Over all, this small number of wealthy Americans saved $21.7 billion in taxes on their investment income as a result of the tax-cut law.
</b></span>
The nearly 90 percent of Americans who make less than $100,000 a year saved on average $318 each on their investments. They collected 5.3 percent of the total savings from reduced tax rates on investment income.

The I.R.S. data showed that the number of Americans making less than $25,000 a year shrank, down by 3.2 million, or 5.5 percent.

Nearly half of Americans reported incomes of less than $30,000, and two-thirds make less than $50,000.

The number of taxpayers making more than $100,000 grew by nearly 3.4 million and accounted for more than two-thirds of the growth in the number of returns filed in 2005 compared with those in 2000.
<span style="background-color: #FFFF00"><b>
The fact that average incomes remained lower in 2005 than five years earlier helps explain why so many Americans report feeling economic stress despite overall growth in the economy. Many Americans are also paying a larger share of their health care costs and have had their retirement benefits reduced, adding to their out-of-pocket costs.
</b></span></font>
<font face="verdana" size="3" color="#0000FF"><b>read the full article that is excerpted above using the link below</b></font>

<font face="arial black" size="4" color="#ff0000">2005 Incomes, On Average, Still Below 2000 Peak<br>By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON - NYT August 21, 2007</font>
<font face="verdana" size="4" color="#333333">
Where Is the Debt Coming From?
In the chart below from Yardeni.com, U.S. consumers have been withdrawing money from their houses at record levels. Simultaneously, they have been saving less. The reliance on home equity extraction (increasing mortgage debt) to fuel the economy is similar to stock market investors in the 20's, who were borrowing money to invest in the stock market. As history has shown, once the speculation exhausts itself assets deflate, but the debt still has to be paid back. Unfortunately, the housing bubble has already started its descent.
</font>
personal.gif






<hr noshade color="#0000ff" size="6"><hr>

How can you compare 2000 with anything now. That's a totally different environment. That was the final stage of the .com boom. We will never see that kind of high income again. Everyone in the tech world is aware of this and have adjusted. People creating web pages were making 50k easily

Pretty much all the stuff you refer to as Bush ism were there during the Clinton Days. All the Big Corporate corruptions were going on during Clinton days. Stop blaming the man for corporate people being shady. Every administration try to pass laws or prosecute corrupt businesses. Shady people will always find ways to do shady things.

We have been having this discussion on this board for years about the benefits of the tax cuts. Unemployment is low, inflation is low and all this despite the numerous disasters the country have seen during that time. He ran on the policy of lowering taxes and he delivered on it.

The subprime crisis we are going through now didn't start with him. If he had tried to stop it when he first came in then folks would say he only wanted the rich to own houses and that he was stealing the American dream from the middle class and poor. People knew this sub prime crash was coming for years now. Most people I know who have been in the investment community think its all part of the real estate cycle. Some folks see it as "The redistribution of wealth" and think its a 7 year cycle. Too bad I wasn't one of the smart people who liquidate everything and sit with my cash waiting for it. My Realtor did. Sold everything like a year and a half, 2 years ago and started renting.
 
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thoughtone

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
More of my "Nick pickers." (More evidence of republican intelligence.)

source: ABC News.com

US And Canadian Dollars Equal In Value For First Time Since 1976


By CHARLES HERMAN
ABC NEWS Business Unit
Sept. 20, 2007
The Canadian dollar has reached parity with the U.S. dollar for the first time since 1976. They are now equal in value. The euro also soared to its highest-ever level against the dollar, trading above $1.40 for the first time since the currency was introduced in 1999.

So why is the dollar plunging, and what impact does that plunge have on U.S. and world markets? Here's a look at some of the reasons for the dollar's fall, and the consequences
Why the Weak Dollar?
There are several reasons. First, there's the difference between the interest rate in the United States -- the one the Federal Reserve just dropped by half a percentage point to 4.75 percent -- and the interest rates of other central banks around the world.
When the United States dropped its rate, other banks did not follow. Now the spread between the interest rate at the European Central Bank (home of the euro) and the Federal Reserve (home of the dollar) is smaller than it has traditionally been, and that has weakened the value of the dollar against the euro. Put another way, you would get a better interest rate return holding a euro than a dollar.
Second, central banks around the world have been diversifying their holdings away from dollars to euros, British pounds and so on. That means there are more dollars out there in currency markets available to purchase. More dollars floating around means diminished value.

What Effect Does This Have?
Look at the record-high price of oil. Even if the same amount of oil is being pumped out of the ground, since it is traded in dollars and the dollar has weakened, the price of oil has increased to make up for the lost value of the dollar, creating a sort of vicious cycle.
Oil-producing countries don't want to keep all the dollars they are getting for their oil, since it's worth less, so they are diversifying and converting their dollars into euros or other currencies. That pushes more dollars back out into currency markets, which in turn pushes down the dollar's value.
One analyst told ABC News that Russia used to have 90 percent of its financial reserves in dollars. It now has 45 percent in dollars, 45 percent in euros and 10 percent in British pounds.
What Does This Mean in the U.S.?
The news is mixed. It's good, because it makes what we produce here cheaper to sell in foreign markets, and that in turn spurs exports of our products around the world. That translates into more manufacturing and more jobs. For example, BMW and Mercedes Benz want to build cars in the United States, because they can do it cheaper in nonunion states than in Germany, where they'd pay labor and parts in euros, and then bring the cars to the United States, where they would be too expensive to sell at a profit.
But a weak dollar is bad, because it leads to inflation in this country. Imports from foreign countries will become more expensive, and in particular, oil will be more expensive. That puts pressure on businesses to increase prices for anything that uses oil or products that come from overseas. One benefit for American shoppers is that China has largely pegged its currency to ours, so that keeps the price of Chinese-made goods low and therefore, keeps a check on inflation.
U.S. Treasuries, Bonds, Mortgages, Stocks
What does a weak dollar mean for all that, and why should I care? If the dollar falls too much, foreign investors and banks won't be so interested in buying T-bills and bonds that keep the U.S. government and businesses humming. That's because the interest rate might not be enough to compensate for inflation. In other words, whatever is earned would be worth less money.
To attract buyers, the T-bills and bonds will sell for less and have higher interest rates. And since many mortgages are tied to these interest rates, that might mean mortgage rates won't drop anytime soon. Also, a weak dollar might scare away foreign investors who don't want to own stock in U.S. companies.
What About Foreign Investors?
Could there be a wholesale dumping of U.S. dollars by foreign governments and investors? Maybe. But that would be executing a sort of "nuclear option."
If China were to dump its reserves of dollars into currency markets, that would dramatically lower the value of the dollar. All those bonds and T-bills that the country holds would drop in value, as inflation would erase any gains from the investment. China would be less able to sell its goods to the United States because the dollar would be too weak, and Chinese products would be more expensive.

If Saudi Arabia were to call for oil to be traded in euros, "that announcement would be the end of the U.S. dollar," said Ashraf Laidi, chief currency analyst at CMC Markets. But he said that would never happen as long as the United States and Saudi Arabia are allies, and the U.S. continues to negotiate arms and other deals with the world's largest oil producer.
 
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