Abdul-Jabbar says NBA entry age should be 21

[Blaq]

TBH That's none of your business...there are a lot of people who that "kid" has to impress to get on the floor in the first place...

I put the kid first in this situation if the fans suffer or the owner suffers that is their problem ...one that they brought on themselves

The kid is just trying to live his dream like anyone else - no one is stopping child actors or singers from doing their thing with age restrictions....

If enough fans turn away from the game, and many have, the league will see that it is the fans business. If they are putting a shitty product on the floor it's simply not good for the game or the business of the game.

I am not a casual fan. I never thought I would not pay as much attention to the league as I have in the past 6 to 7 years. I have been a fan for a little over 30 years and have seen the league deteriorate. This isn't opinion, but fact for many long-time NBA observers. The straight from high school to the NBA is one of the primary reasons why.

I understand there are many other social/political reasons that are involved, but i'm giving my opinion from a fan's viewpoint. Whether you agree or not, that is the viewpoint that will matter most in the end. When fans continue to turn away in droves, the NBA will see that something needs to be corrected.

 

[doggish_098]

The difference being in the NBA, you get a check. At the end of your three year rookie deal, a player may be a flop but he's a flop with money to do something else. There is very little to make sure colleges actually graduate players. The schools get on tv, sell merchandise, sell seats and suites and the player can come out with nothing, not even a degree.

you get a check in college ball too. it may not be a lot of money but you get a check. How much money do you really need anyway since you room board books and tuition are all covered under your scholarship? It is up to the player weather they leave with a degree or not. At the end of your college career you may be a flop also but at least you have an education from a top school in the country where you can use it to make a decent living for yourself you may not be "rich" at the end of the day but you will do ok.

 

[Blaq]

Most players in today's NBA still have more than a 1 year of college ball and increasingly several years of international ball, so it's not a bunch of "youngsters" messing up the league. If a player doesn't have a good grasp on basketball fundamentals by the time he's 19, more than likely after at least 10 years of AAU and/or other organized ball, isn't going to get it in a college setting.

Duly noted, but we just have a difference of opinion.

 

[Tripster]

they are not being used give me a fucking break. if you think they are being used in college they are being used in the nba also. a professional player makes pennies compared to the money that the leagues and owners make. the nfl has an age limit and they put out a much better product than the nfl. the nba use to be a good product to watch but now all this one and done bullshit has ruined the league. It has almost become unbearable to watch now.

Brother we are saying the same thing. You obviously misunderstood my statement.

 

[doggish_098]

Brother we are saying the same thing. You obviously misunderstood my statement.

quoted the wrong person my bad...

 

[crossovernegro]

A whole lot of top athletic prospects are simply not college material... and when they do go to college, be it for 1 year or 2-4 years, it actually makes a joke of the process. The college game no doubt would help a lot of guys be better players in the NBA... but the schools are there for education primarily, big time jocks, by and large, are not exactly gonna be going to class and giving it 100%. I remember back in the 90's a friend of mine at Rutgers (back when Rutgers football was the lowest of the low) used to tell me that football players got take home midterms and finals, or oral exams, while the rest of the students did not. ...and this was for a perenial losing football school with a pretty good educational reputation.


If the NBA actually had a serious multi-level minor league like Baseball does, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with age limits for the big league... although no matter what, I really can't see an actual reason to ever tell an 18/19 year old that they can't take their skills to the highest level that they are qualified for, in any endeavor. Nobody tells actors that they can't be in movies until age 21...same for singers. Nobody tells entrepreneurs that they can't start a company until age 21....

I like this.. Experience from life and from books is what everyone needs. It makes you a better person. 21 sould be the entry for the NBA. amoung with all Pro sports. Makes for a path and for everyone to aim for higher education.

 

[Tripster]

quoted the wrong person my bad...

All good.

 

[Les W]

If enough fans turn away from the game, and many have, the league will see that it is the fans business. If they are putting a shitty product on the floor it's simply not good for the game or the business of the game.

I am not a casual fan. I never thought I would not pay as much attention to the league as I have in the past 6 to 7 years. I have been a fan for a little over 30 years and have seen the league deteriorate. This isn't opinion, but fact for many long-time NBA observers. The straight from high school to the NBA is one of the primary reasons why.

I understand there are many other social/political reasons that are involved, but i'm giving my opinion from a fan's viewpoint. Whether you agree or not, that is the viewpoint that will matter most in the end. When fans continue to turn away in droves, the NBA will see that something needs to be corrected.

Word

I think we are on the same side I am also a long time fan, but I am looking at the situation from all sides.

I never saw Lebron play before he came in the league, I actually found it disgusting that this tattooed minor was being whored out on ESPN playing a pretty much unimportant game...reminded me of the little kids in the beauty pageants

My point is that it's the FANS that demand and finance under aged stars not the KIDS themselves

If people stopped following kids in middle school this would not be an issue.

I absolutely do NOT support kids skipping school to play in the NBA because for every KG and Kobe there are a thousand "what's his names" working at McDonald's.

And a fool and his money soon will part is true for most of the ones who do make it...look at JR Smith he comes off as someone who is consumed by the "NBA lifestyle"

I do however disagree that it is a stranger's job to say what a man that can go to Iraq and kill for Oil Tycoons can do for a living legally.

 

[RunawaySlave]

They need to raise the age to at least 21 and have these kats develop more before they can come to the NBA. Also, they have too many euros in the league. They need to make other changes as well because the game is really suffering.

been saying this all along.

LOL at all the cats who know more about the subject than KAJ. Who btw, should be more than just a "special assistant"

 

[thereason]

If you are old enough to vote and fight in a war, then you should be old enough to earn a living in the profession of your choice. No one puts a gun to these owner's heads and forces them to bring in young athletes...they choose to. They take the risk, and benefit from the reward (if there is one).

/thread

 

[Blaq]

Word

I think we are on the same side I am also a long time fan, but I am looking at the situation from all sides.

I never saw Lebron play before he came in the league, I actually found it disgusting that this tattooed minor was being whored out on ESPN playing a pretty much unimportant game...reminded me of the little kids in the beauty pageants

My point is that it's the FANS that demand and finance under aged stars not the KIDS themselves

If people stopped following kids in middle school this would not be an issue.

I absolutely do NOT support kids skipping school to play in the NBA because for every KG and Kobe there are a thousand "what's his names" working at McDonald's.

And a fool and his money soon will part is true for most of the ones who do make it...look at JR Smith he comes off as someone who is consumed by the "NBA lifestyle"

I do however disagree that it is a stranger's job to say what a man that can go to Iraq and kill for Oil Tycoons can do for a living legally.

Co-sign 100%

The bolded part i've always felt was hypocrisy. Still do, even though for the reasons stated, I wish the required age was raised.

been saying this all along.

LOL at all the cats who know more about the subject than KAJ. Who btw, should be more than just a "special assistant"

What's happenin' fam?

It's surprising that he doesn't have a more prominent position in the NBA. He is truly a living legend.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

If enough fans turn away from the game, and many have, the league will see that it is the fans business. If they are putting a shitty product on the floor it's simply not good for the game or the business of the game.

I am not a casual fan. I never thought I would not pay as much attention to the league as I have in the past 6 to 7 years. I have been a fan for a little over 30 years and have seen the league deteriorate. This isn't opinion, but fact for many long-time NBA observers. The straight from high school to the NBA is one of the primary reasons why.

I understand there are many other social/political reasons that are involved, but i'm giving my opinion from a fan's viewpoint. Whether you agree or not, that is the viewpoint that will matter most in the end. When fans continue to turn away in droves, the NBA will see that something needs to be corrected.

Fans aren't turning away though. For all the fans who may have left, they've either returned or been replaced. The NBA weathered the storm of down attendance and ratings and have been resurgent for years, especially in attendance (before OKC got a team, that would skew any measure).
Relatively few people tune in to see fundamental basketball. If they did, the WNBA would be doing a lot better. The Spurs and the Larry Brown Pistons would have been the highest rated Finals since Jordan retired. Give fans exciting basketball and exciting players and they won't miss miss range jumpers.

you get a check in college ball too. it may not be a lot of money but you get a check. How much money do you really need anyway since you room board books and tuition are all covered under your scholarship? It is up to the player weather they leave with a degree or not. At the end of your college career you may be a flop also but at least you have an education from a top school in the country where you can use it to make a decent living for yourself you may not be "rich" at the end of the day but you will do ok.

You can't eat potential.
Players not getting a degree is the fault of the university. If it was just one or two players, that would be on them but it's not. Schools recruit players, that if it wasn't for his jumpshot, they wouldn't give a second look. Once that player has served his purpose, he's gone. Hopefully he can be useful for 3-4 yrs, so that he can get a degree.
Is the stipend enough for players to have their parents come see them play? And for the ones of lesser financial means, is it enough to send home to help out? If the monetary side was sufficient, the lure of the NBA and now overseas markets wouldn't be so great.

I read my post again and then re-read your response. Your hypothetical isn't better at all. In mine, you leave with guaranteed money (money you can use to go to school). In yours, you leave with...what? A player may leave with an education and they may not. I'll go with the cash and the opportunities money opens up for a person.

A whole lot of top athletic prospects are simply not college material... and when they do go to college, be it for 1 year or 2-4 years, it actually makes a joke of the process. The college game no doubt would help a lot of guys be better players in the NBA... but the schools are there for education primarily, big time jocks, by and large, are not exactly gonna be going to class and giving it 100%. I remember back in the 90's a friend of mine at Rutgers (back when Rutgers football was the lowest of the low) used to tell me that football players got take home midterms and finals, or oral exams, while the rest of the students did not. ...and this was for a perenial losing football school with a pretty good educational reputation.


If the NBA actually had a serious multi-level minor league like Baseball does, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with age limits for the big league... although no matter what, I really can't see an actual reason to ever tell an 18/19 year old that they can't take their skills to the highest level that they are qualified for, in any endeavor. Nobody tells actors that they can't be in movies until age 21...same for singers. Nobody tells entrepreneurs that they can't start a company until age 21....

Indeed.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

been saying this all along.

LOL at all the cats who know more about the subject than KAJ. Who btw, should be more than just a "special assistant"

As I said earlier, this is the same KAJ who went to school and still almost ended up broke. He had to play at least two years longer than he should have to get out of the hole.

Co-sign 100%

The bolded part i've always felt was hypocrisy. Still do, even though for the reasons stated, I wish the required age was raised.



What's happenin' fam?

It's surprising that he doesn't have a more prominent position in the NBA. He is truly a living legend.

Being a legend doesn't mean you know how to coach or have the temperment or business acumen for a significant front office job.
Kareem may have burned some bridges over the years. I say that despite having always admired and respected his political activism.

 

[MolE DeezY]

i agree

 

[three-fifths]

Why do you think MJ was so popular with white america? Do you recall at ANY time, MJ speaking out about ANY social issue that affected blacks in ANY way? NEVER. And white men appreciated it....greatly. They loved, and still love MJ for it. "Don't make me feel bad about myself, just play basketball and be clean cut and kiss white babies and hug and play with the little white boys in your commercials." THAT'S why they loved MJ.

i would NEVER play under the white man's rules and shit.

i wouldn't care if he gave me a billion dollar contract.

fuck this kinda bullshit.

 

[RunawaySlave]

As I said earlier, this is the same KAJ who went to school and still almost ended up broke. He had to play at least two years longer than he should have to get out of the hole.

the difference is he got ROBBED for his money
By a man with a degree I might add

 

[cbm_redux]

Kareem is right...

Nigga, please. How the fuck are you going to deprive someone of their limited years of earning potential. It's no one's business but theirs if they are or aren't mature enough. It's quite telling that no one has ever suggested that white tennis players and the like shouldn't be "allowed" to earn a living until they are 21.

Any basketball player with start potential who fucks off years of his life, not to mention millions of dollars in potential earnings, as an NCAA slave is a damned fool. I'd take my ass straight to Europe and tell Massa Stern to kiss my black ass.

 

[code_pirahna]

He has a slight point...the thing is that the NFL can get away with the age minimum because an 18 year old high schooler can t physically compete with a 28 year old NFL veteran...the physical strength ain t there....

The NBA can but the mental strength 9/10 isn t there.(although I do feel as though LeBron and Garnett showed maturity beyond their years)....the problem I have is that many of these young cats allow the money to destroy them....they either get chased by groupies who play games with them...and take their money or they blow it on wild living...

college teaches you how to think a little better...I m kind of torn on the age limit idea though....

 

[Blunt]

Why doesn't this come up in other sports? How many hockey players failed? Baseball? Golf? Tennis? .............oh, yea, I know why.

No one else makes the kind of money right out of high school that NBA-ers do, and in most leagues you HAVE to play college or in the minors to even get a WHIFF of the pros.

 

[cbm_redux]

what if instead the millions you earn has to stay in a savings account with interest until you are 21

This too is utter bullshit. You can't tell a 18 year old man what to do with his money. A nigga can get his ass shot off in Afghanistan at 18, but he can't play professional basketball? Come on, son. It's an absurd idea. Again, I find it telling that this sort of assumption of incompetence is only leveled at a sport whose young stars are predominantly black. Where were these motherfuckers when Steve Yzerman joined the Detroit Red Wings at 18 or when Martina Hingis started winning grand slams at 15?

Moreover, I'm inclined to believe that Kareem's comments are self-serving. A minimum age in the NBA would significantly decrease the chances of someone breaking his all time scoring record.

 

[Blaq]

Being a legend doesn't mean you know how to coach or have the temperment or business acumen for a significant front office job.
Kareem may have burned some bridges over the years. I say that despite having always admired and respected his political activism.

I've seen that mentioned before, and it may or may not be the true reason.

I agree on the legend, translating to... All one has to do is look at how it worked out for MJ or Magic. That said, looking throughout the league and seeing the likes of Del Negro, Paxon, Ferry, Ainge, Kerr, you have to wonder what is the deal.

On "Inside The NBA" last week Barkley shouted for the league to give Ewing a chance to coach instead of pulling from the ranks of television analysts. It may have been Kareem burned bridges, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[Blunt]

A nigga can get his ass shot off in Afghanistan at 18, but he can't play professional basketball?

I guess you don't care about the quality of the league, or the preparedness of the young black men who play in it.

Again, I find it telling that this sort of assumption of incompetence is only leveled at a sport whose young stars are predominantly black.

Facts are the facts. They're paid the most. They're the LEAST educated. And they usually fall the farthest and/or get in the most trouble.

Where were these motherfuckers when Steve Yzerman joined the Detroit Red Wings at 18 or when Martina Hingis started winning grand slams at 15?

They don't make anywhere near as much, and haven't affected the quality of the sport. In fact, in tennis, a female player's "peak" is usually in her early 20s. Just the nature of the sport. But Hingis hasn't made over her whole career what an NBA rookie makes in a season.

Moreover, I'm inclined to believe that Kareem's comments are self-serving. A minimum age in the NBA would significantly decrease the chances of someone breaking his all time scoring record.

Right, he's known for being more interested in himself than the greater good of black folks.

 

[Blu Diablo]

This too is utter bullshit. You can't tell a 18 year old man what to do with his money. A nigga can get his ass shot off in Afghanistan at 18, but he can't play professional basketball? Come on, son. It's an absurd idea. Again, I find it telling that this sort of assumption of incompetence is only leveled at a sport whose young stars are predominantly black. Where were these motherfuckers when Steve Yzerman joined the Detroit Red Wings at 18 or when Martina Hingis started winning grand slams at 15?

Moreover, I'm inclined to believe that Kareem's comments are self-serving. A minimum age in the NBA would significantly decrease the chances of someone breaking his all time scoring record.

If the NBA took the NBDL seriously this would be a non issue. MLB far and away signs the most young players but they'll be damned if these dudes get to the show before their talent level is acceptable and will quickly send them back down if it is not. The young player still gets a professional paycheck and the league maintains it's standard of performance. In the process the kid learns what it takes to be a major leaguer and finally get to the big dough.

Most folks don't have an issue with a young phenom jumping to the league, it's these young kids jumping to the league "en masse" that fucks up the game. I'm not hating on anybodies right to earn a living but I shouldn't be subjected to a subpar product because of it.

Every sport is gonna have it's young phenoms and some even encourage it, it just doesn't play out as well with team sports as it does with individual sports.

 

[crossovernegro]

I bet we could dig up plenty of players that went to school for a few years and entered the league at 21 or older, and had the same types of problems that the youngters are having, and displayed the same kind of immaturity and irresponsibility. I'm sure that in general, people tend to get a little smarter as they get older, but one person's smart may be another person's dumb. Different sport, but didn't Lawrence Phillips go to college?

I wouldn't mind seeing stats for straight to pro's players vs. 2-4 years of college before going to pro's players in a few years, and I'd bet that the numbers of legal problems, financial problems, etc wouldn't be too far apart.

He has a slight point...the thing is that the NFL can get away with the age minimum because an 18 year old high schooler can t physically compete with a 28 year old NFL veteran...the physical strength ain t there....

The NBA can but the mental strength 9/10 isn t there.(although I do feel as though LeBron and Garnett showed maturity beyond their years)....the problem I have is that many of these young cats allow the money to destroy them....they either get chased by groupies who play games with them...and take their money or they blow it on wild living...

college teaches you how to think a little better...I m kind of torn on the age limit idea though....

 

[Blaq]

If the NBA took the NBDL seriously this would be a non issue. MLB far and away signs the most young players but they'll be damned if these dudes get to the show before their talent level is acceptable and will quickly send them back down if it is not. The young player still gets a professional paycheck and the league maintains it's standard of performance. In the process the kid learns what it takes to be a major leaguer and finally get to the big dough.

Most folks don't have an issue with a young phenom jumping to the league, it's these young kids jumping to the league "en masse" that fucks up the game. I'm not hating on anybodies right to earn a living but I shouldn't be subjected to a subpar product because of it.

Every sport is gonna have it's young phenoms and some even encourage it, it just doesn't play out as well with team sports as it does with individual sports.

Co-sign 100%

Thanks for summing it up perfectly, as always.

 

[Les W]

Lemme ask this then:
How does the board feel about mandatory "Money Management" or "Wealth Building" "Importance of Education" seminars for new NBA players in the off season?
(The NBA doesn't mind telling you how to dress and what to say when the leagues image is on the line..)

Also how about a "Big Brother" mentor program kinda of what like Deion Sanders is doing but make it Official?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

the difference is he got ROBBED for his money
By a man with a degree I might add

Not an excuse at all. Kareem was a grown man who should know how to do math. The dude didn't rob him at gunpoint.

Lemme ask this then:
How does the board feel about mandatory "Money Management" or "Wealth Building" "Importance of Education" seminars for new NBA players in the off season?
(The NBA doesn't mind telling you how to dress and what to say when the leagues image is on the line..)

Also how about a "Big Brother" mentor program kinda of what like Deion Sanders is doing but make it Official?

I like it.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I've seen that mentioned before, and it may or may not be the true reason.

I agree on the legend, translating to... All one has to do is look at how it worked out for MJ or Magic. That said, looking throughout the league and seeing the likes of Del Negro, Paxon, Ferry, Ainge, Kerr, you have to wonder what is the deal.
On "Inside The NBA" last week Barkley shouted for the league to give Ewing a chance to coach instead of pulling from the ranks of television analysts. It may have been Kareem burned bridges, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Not one of those guys can be considered a "legend". Role players, especially it seems former point guards, tend to make good coaches. But elite players, like Magic or Bird or Jordan, even if they have some success usually lack the patience to remain coaches for very long.

 

[Blaq]

But elite players, like Magic or Bird or Jordan, even if they have some success usually lack the patience to remain coaches for very long.

What about general managers?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

What about general managers?

That's where I think he may have burned those bridges. Same with Rick Barry.

 

[Blaq]

That's where I think he may have burned those bridges. Same with Rick Barry.

Sometimes you don't know what to believe. I have read stories on Kareem's personailty. Bird, and others as well, but it didn't seem to affect them.

What's the deal with Rick Barry? I didn't see him play. The only things i've read were stories on his relationships with his sons.

 

[cranrab]

NBA entry age should be 21

Kareem is right.

kareem abdul jabbar and i have had many conversations about this very subject, and are in complete agreement.

but it's lost on so many people because it requires an understanding of something most completely lack.

 

[cranrab]

NBA entry age should be 21

LOL at all the cats who know more about the subject than KAJ. Who btw, should be more than just a "special assistant"

if kareem abdul jabbar were talking about a subject he's not familiar with, like making toothpaste or some shit, i could see the objections.

but this is something he has lived and experienced for longer than most people here have been alive. but they know better.

the other part that is strikingly funny (BGOL never disappoints) is that numerous people always show up in the "_________ __________ declared bankruptcy" threads expressing how amazed they are. they then go on to talk about how there should be some sort of mentorship.

but just refer back to this thread to see how nobody listens, even when someone is willing to share.

 

[REDLINE]

Kareem is right meaning the players would be better all around basketball players. They'll also be better prepared to deal with the challenges of the pro game.

I just don't feel it's right to limit someones income due to their age. If they're ready to play out of high school, then let them play.

 

[Blunt]

If they're ready to play out of high school, then let them play.

Who decides what "ready to play" means??? The league can set whatever age limit it wants. No one has a RIGHT to play in the NBA.