*** A Unique Perspective on the Vietnam War: Happy Veteran's Day ***

[4 Dimensional]

The Walking Dead (1995)

"The Walking Dead" (1995) is an obscure war film written and directed by Preston A. Whitmore II. This movie has a great cast, and each character tells their personal story of their life before serving in the Vietnam War. While the film takes place during the war, much of it is flashbacks, which is a great idea considering many soldiers in real life had stories before the war. However, this movie remains elusive compared to other 90s films, but it's worth watching, especially if you have family members who are veterans.

Director: Preston A. Whitmore II
Writer: Preston A. Whitmore II

Starring Allen Payne, Eddie Griffin, Joe Morton, Vonte Sweet, Roger Floyd, Ion Overman, Bernie Mac, Jean-Claude La Marre, Wendy Raquel Robinson, Lena Sang, Kyley Jackman, Doil Williams

Storyline
In Vietnam, a squad of four African-American soldiers is deployed on a hazardous mission to rescue POWs from a remote jungle temple. Sgt. Barkley (Joe Morton) leads a diverse group featuring comprising young soldier Joe Brooks (Vonte Sweet), rebellious stoner Hoover Branche (Eddie Griffin), and bookish ideologue Cole Evans (Allen Payne). They all recount their personal experiences about how they ended up joining the Marine Corps.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Green Eyes (1977)

"Green Eyes" (1977) was a made-for-television war drama aired on ABC. It starred Paul Winfield as a wounded Black GI who returned home after serving in the war. The movie highlights some deep perspectives and residual effects of veterans who served and struggled to integrate into society upon returning home. Unable to find work and also dealing with PTSD, he decided to go back to Saigon in search of a woman who gave birth to his child. When he arrives, the reality of the war remains in its most grim appearance. Wounded, disfigured, and homeless Vietnamese people spread across the city, and hundreds of starving half-American and half-Vietnamese children were left orphaned when the American soldiers withdrew from the country. Winfield carries this moving film with a brilliant performance as you connect with him and his journey to find meaningful insight into a reality many experienced but left untreated.

Director: John Erman
Writers: Eugene Logan, David Seltzer

Starring Paul Winfield, Rita Tushingham, Jonathan Goldsmith, Victoria Racimo, Lemi, Royce Wallace, Robert DoQui, Fred Sadoff, Dabbs Greer, Joseph Hieu, Diep Thi Nguyet, Ruth Nguyen, Nguyen Duong, Claudia Bryar, Gloria Rustmann, Jester Hairston, Vernee Watson

Storyline
Lloyd Dubeck (Paul Winfield) is a Vietnam vet who, having been back in the States for a few years, can't get the hang of civilian life. Feeling marginalized and misunderstood, he decides to return to Vietnam. Dubeck hopes that he'll find purpose in his life if he can locate the child that he fathered with a Vietnamese woman years before. Knowing only that the child has green eyes, his search proves challenging and stirs up many old memories of the war.

 

[jack walsh13]

Tunnel rat that temple

 

[4 Dimensional]

While pho is one of Vietnam’s signature dishes, it became more popular during the war as a means for survival and nutrition for the Vietnamese soldiers and citizens. It’s simple to make, and blends all the natural herbs and vegetables from the land. Protein choice was fish, beef, and chicken. When the war ended, Vietnamese soldiers would pass the bowl around to each other as a symbol of peace for their country. Today, the dish is everywhere and cheaply accessible. But nothing compares to getting right from their land.

 

[DC_Dude]

 

[woodchuck]

This has fascinated me since I was a teen, after hearing the stories from my 2 uncles that served. Years later, I met a River Rat at the airport, and we had a great convo. He actually did 2 tours. The more I learned about this war, the more it disturbed me. I hate it when people say they lost this war. They didn't lose anything; they just weren't allowed to win it.

 

[God-Of-War-420]

I got nothing nice to say about veterans or out active servicemen, they're paid dogs who do what they're told no matter how sick or inhumane. They're betraying our country as we speak and I have no doubts of the Cheeto in charge ordered it they'd turn on the American people at the drop of a hat.

 

[Shadow]

Dope shit, man. As black veteran of an age to have vietnam vets all through my family. I visited the war museum in Hanoi a few years ago. That really struck home. What they need to show was Hanoi Jane radio broadcast telling the Soul Brother to go home and they only wanted to kill white people because we are both the same and black men shouldn't be there. Can you imagine turning on the radio and hearing that after your white PL made one of the bruhs take point and he got killed? My dad and uncles said that happened all the time. I know war, but that was a whole different type of shit and I am proud of my family (6 total nam vets) for rebouding from that time.

 

[4 Dimensional]

This has fascinated me since I was a teen, after hearing the stories from my 2 uncles that served. Years later, I met a River Rat at the airport, and we had a great convo. He actually did 2 tours. The more I learned about this war, the more it disturbed me. I hate it when people say they lost this war. They didn't lose anything; they just weren't allowed to win it.

I grew up around nothing but Vietnam vets. Obviously my dad, but all his friends were in the war, too. It’s almost like they went to these small towns, that had a high back population (particularly those segregated), and drafted them.

All those guys were off the chain. I had no business around them half the time at my age, but their perspective of life was so deep. Civil rights and drafted into the war?

All of them were heavy drinkers. On tick away from going shell on anyone. But they all had families and kids, and did the best they could given their circumstances.

Even sadder is how many didn’t know how to get VA benefits until much later in life.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Dope shit, man. As black veteran of an age to have vietnam vets all through my family. I visited the war museum in Hanoi a few years ago. That really struck home. What they need to show was Hanoi Jane radio broadcast telling the Soul Brother to go home and they only wanted to kill white people because we are both the same and black men shouldn't be there. Can you imagine turning on the radio and hearing that after your white PL made one of the bruhs take point and he got killed? My dad and uncles said that happened all the time. I know war, but that was a whole different type of shit and I am proud of my family (6 total nam vets) for rebouding from that time.

Man, the shit that went on internally was crazy. Pops told me one time that if a black service man was killed a white serviceman might “accidentally” catch a friendly fire.

The racism that was going within was a war itself!

I’m glad you go to go to Hanoi. I love visiting that city and will be going back next year. When I do, I’m going to check out that museum, too.

 

[4 Dimensional]

I got nothing nice to say about veterans or out active servicemen, they're paid dogs who do what they're told no matter how sick or inhumane. They're betraying our country as we speak and I have no doubts of the Cheeto in charge ordered it they'd turn on the American people at the drop of a hat.

Totally understand your point.

 

[woodchuck]

I grew up around nothing but Vietnam vets. Obviously my dad, but all his friends were in the war, too. It’s almost like they went to these small towns, that had a high back population (particularly those segregated), and drafted them.

All those guys were off the chain. I had no business around them half the time at my age, but their perspective of life was so deep. Civil rights and drafted into the war?

All of them were heavy drinkers. On tick away from going shell on anyone. But they all had families and kids, and did the best they could given their circumstances.

Even sadder is how many didn’t know how to get VA benefits until much later in life.

For years, we couldn't do fireworks and firecrackers around my uncle Chris. One year, back in the 70s, my cousin, who didn't know, popped a firecracker, and Uncle Chris hit the deck. My uncle Butch did 2 tours as a Cav Scout. He told me, one day, him and a buddy got in trouble, and they had to go to battalion HQ to get chewed out. While they were gone, VC artillery hit their platoon and wiped out most of them. He used to tell me wild stories.

 

[Shadow]

I grew up around nothing but Vietnam vets. Obviously my dad, but all his friends were in the war, too. It’s almost like they went to these small towns, that had a high back population (particularly those segregated), and drafted them.

All those guys were off the chain. I had no business around them half the time at my age, but their perspective of life was so deep. Civil rights and drafted into the war?

All of them were heavy drinkers. On tick away from going shell on anyone. But they all had families and kids, and did the best they could given their circumstances.

Even sadder is how many didn’t know how to get VA benefits until much later in life.

One of my uncles had a PTSD event while we were visiting. There was construction going on in his neighborhood and we were all in the living room. An explosion went off, and he jumped up screaming gooks in the wire, All the men tackled him to the ground and I was rushed out of the room. I was 8 years old. It was the first time I saw something like that, but not the last (including from Iraq/Afghanistan)

The VA thing is because the WWII vets were gatekeeping at the VA and telling them that Vietnam was a Police Action (like Korea). There was some sort of intervention in the early 80s before Nam Vets really started getting benefits and even now I meet guys at the VA who are just now getting everything started. Took my dad more than a few years to get his because he did a full career in uniform but concurrent receipt was not a thing when he got out. Since his retirement was more, he only got that and left it alone for a while. He was good when he passed so his wife was taken care of.

CONCURRENT RECEIPT (CDRP) - basically being able to receive BOTH your military retirement check and VA disability compensation. If a vet is 50% or more disabled, then you can receive both checks. Can be a very lucrative thing. I bring home a decent amount from this (as most retirees do).

 

[4 Dimensional]

For years, we couldn't do fireworks and firecrackers around my uncle Chris. One year, back in the 70s, my cousin, who didn't know, popped a firecracker, and Uncle Chris hit the deck. My uncle Butch did 2 tours as a Cav Scout. He told me, one day, him and a buddy got in trouble, and they had to go to battalion HQ to get chewed out. While they were gone, VC artillery hit their platoon and wiped out most of them. He used to tell me wild stories.

My dad didn’t allow me to have toy guns growing up. He never said why, but I assume he didn’t want to be triggered by them.

He told me some gruesome stories, especially if we watched Vietnam movies like Full Metal Jacket or Platoon. Pops for the most part was stable mentally. He had his struggles, but he never abused his family. I can probably count on one hand how many times whooped me growing up. But my mother, I need about 20 people’s hands

Pops lost both of his parents before he was drafted, got married, hand a kid, and his wife divorced him while on tour. He introduced me to this song because it was true for a lot of black men that were drafted.



The song dropped in 1970. The same year my pops was drafted. He did his tour in ‘71.

 

[4 Dimensional]

One of my uncles had a PTSD event while we were visiting. There was construction going on in his neighborhood and we were all in the living room. An explosion went off, and he jumped up screaming gooks in the wire, All the men tackled him to the ground and I was rushed out of the room. I was 8 years old. It was the first time I saw something like that, but not the last (including from Iraq/Afghanistan)

The VA thing is because the WWII vets were gatekeeping at the VA and telling them that Vietnam was a Police Action (like Korea). There was some sort of intervention in the early 80s before Nam Vets really started getting benefits and even now I meet guys at the VA who are just now getting everything started. Took my dad more than a few years to get his because he did a full career in uniform but concurrent receipt was not a thing when he got out. Since his retirement was more, he only got that and left it alone for a while. He was good when he passed so his wife was taken care of.

CONCURRENT RECEIPT (CDRP) - basically being able to receive BOTH your military retirement check and VA disability compensation. If a vet is 50% or more disabled, then you can receive both checks. Can be a very lucrative thing. I bring home a decent amount from this (as most retirees do).

Yes, my pops got all of that before he passed, and all the benefits went to my mother (thank goodness). She got all his VA benefits, including his insurance, Social Security, and retirement.

Pops died of cancer, but he did get tested to see if Agent Orange was the cause of it. To this day, I believe the US government will NEVER admit that Agent Orange caused Vietnam vets who die of cancer. If they did, they would have to pay out more than just VA benefits. The US government directly exposed its military to that deadly chemical as collateral damage.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Another unspoken element from the war was the Saigon war children left after the war ended. These were children born to US servicemen and were ostracized by the Vietnamese government for a period of time. They were essentially sent to the 'ghettos', left to fend for themselves, or taken in by my humanitarian shelters. It's extremely possible I have a brother or sister in Vietnam.

Children of the Vietnam War

Born overseas to Vietnamese mothers and U.S. servicemen, Amerasians brought hard-won resilience to their lives in America

www.smithsonianmag.com

"But neither America nor Vietnam wanted the kids known as Amerasians and commonly dismissed by the Vietnamese as "children of the dust"—as insignificant as a speck to be brushed aside. "The care and welfare of these unfortunate children...has never been and is not now considered an area of government responsibility," the U.S. Defense Department said in a 1970 statement. "Our society does not need these bad elements," the Vietnamese director of social welfare in Ho Chi Minh City (formerly Saigon) said a decade later. As adults, some Amerasians would say that they felt cursed from the start. When, in early April 1975, Saigon was falling to Communist troops from the north and rumors spread that southerners associated with the United States might be massacred, President Gerald Ford announced plans to evacuate 2,000 orphans, many of them Amerasians. Operation Babylift's first official flight crashed in the rice paddies outside Saigon, killing 144 people, most of them children. South Vietnamese soldiers and civilians gathered at the site, some to help, others to loot the dead. Despite the crash, the evacuation program continued another three weeks."

 

[4 Dimensional]

The Vietnam War started with the division of Vietnam after the First Indochina War, escalating from a conflict between the communist North and the non-communist South into a full-scale war with the involvement of the United States. The conflict began as a struggle against French colonial rule, but the US became increasingly involved due to Cold War fears of communism spreading (the "domino theory"), particularly after President Kennedy expanded military support. The 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident provided the pretext for President Lyndon B. Johnson to dramatically increase US involvement, which led to the deployment of combat troops in 1965.

Key events leading to the start of the war:

• Post-WWII and French Colonial Rule: Following World War II, communist nationalist groups led by Ho Chi Minh (the Viet Minh) fought against the return of French colonial rule in the First Indochina War.
• The Geneva Accords (1954): After the French defeat, the 1954 Geneva Accords temporarily divided Vietnam at the 17th parallel, with a communist North and a non-communist South, and called for unification elections that never happened.
• Growing US Involvement: The US began providing military and economic aid to South Vietnam to prevent a communist takeover.
• • Kennedy's Escalation: In 1961, President John F. Kennedy significantly expanded US military support, sending advisors and increasing aid.
  • Gulf of Tonkin Incident (1964): Following alleged attacks on US destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which gave President Johnson broad authority to escalate military action without a formal declaration of war.
  • US Combat Troops: In March 1965, President Johnson sent the first US combat troops to Vietnam, marking a major escalation of American involvement and the beginning of full-scale US participation in the war.

 

[4 Dimensional]

My question: "Did the us know the difference between North and South Vietnamese soldiers?"

AI Response:

No, it was often difficult to distinguish between North Vietnamese Army (NVA) soldiers, Viet Cong (VC) guerrillas, and civilians. While NVA soldiers sometimes wore uniforms and were more easily identifiable, Viet Cong fighters frequently blended in with the civilian population, making it a major challenge to differentiate between the enemy and non-combatants. This was compounded by a lack of consistent visual cues and the enemy's use of guerrilla tactics.

NVA vs. VC

• North Vietnamese Army (NVA): Typically wore uniforms and were more organized, though they sometimes operated in conjunction with the Viet Cong.
• Viet Cong (VC): Often wore civilian clothing and could blend into villages, making them extremely difficult to identify as combatants.

Factors that made identification difficult

• Blending in: The enemy's strategy was to melt into the civilian population, which meant U.S. troops had to operate under the assumption that anyone could be an enemy.
• Guerrilla warfare: The enemy often used hit-and-run tactics, ambushes, and relied on the local population for support and concealment, rather than a conventional front line.
  • Lack of clear visual cues: The absence of uniforms and clear identifiers made it hard to tell who was a combatant and who was not, leading to a high level of suspicion and making it difficult to distinguish allies from enemies.

How US soldiers sometimes distinguished combatants

• Behavior: A soldier might observe how an individual was holding their weapon or their actions in a given situation. For example, a relaxed posture near American troops could indicate an ally, while pointing a weapon might suggest hostility.
• Uniforms: In the case of the NVA, uniforms provided a visual distinction, but this was not a universal rule as many Viet Cong fighters did not wear them.

In essence, the distinction was frequently blurred, requiring soldiers to exercise extreme caution and making it a major challenge to fight the war effectively.


In other words, they were killing Vietnamese indiscriminately. They had no clear target or enemy.

 

[Shadow]

In other words, they were killing Vietnamese indiscriminately. They had no clear target or enemy.

This is grey area. I'm not taking away from the statement more than that. The Vietnamese did not observe geneva convention guidance and dressed a civiilians when conducting operations again both the ARVN (South VN Army) and the US. When they started shooting at the US, the US could engage because that action identified them as lawful combatants according to US military law and the geneva accords. Same thing happened throughout the GWOT. It's unfortunate, because most times the VC (until it merged with the NVA) used this to their advantage. There was no way to make the US look good here.

 

[Shadow]

Pops died of cancer, but he did get tested to see if Agent Orange was the cause of it. To this day, I believe the US government will NEVER admit that Agent Orange caused Vietnam vets who die of cancer. If they did, they would have to pay out more than just VA benefits. The US government directly exposed its military to that deadly chemical as collateral damage.

This is included in the burn pit registry stuff I believe. I know there was some agent orange verbiage but not exactly what. Only happened in the last few years and I assume both our dads have been gone longer than that, Mine died in 2015.

I had to skim that to see what they said about burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was exposed in both locations and have me stuff already documents by locations I was at

 

[4 Dimensional]

This is grey area. I'm not taking away from the statement more than that. The Vietnamese did not observe geneva convention guidance and dressed a civiilians when conducting operations again both the ARVN (South VN Army) and the US. When they started shooting at the US, the US could engage because that action identified them as lawful combatants according to US military law and the geneva accords. Same thing happened throughout the GWOT. It's unfortunate, because most times the VC (until it merged with the NVA) used this to their advantage. There was no way to make the US look good here.

I can see that. Their strategy to blend makes knowing who your target is complicated.

I asked that questions, but I couldn’t differentiate between the two side explicitly. And considering some did dress ass civilians, it made it difficult to engage without going full throttle.

 

[4 Dimensional]

This is included in the burn pit registry stuff I believe. I know there was some agent orange verbiage but not exactly what. Only happened in the last few years and I assume both our dads have been gone longer than that, Mine died in 2015.

I had to skim that to see what they said about burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was exposed in both locations and have me stuff already documents by locations I was at

Pops has in 2020. His cancer was colon and then liver. The VA paid for the test, but how they can determine a cancer was from agent orange seems like it’s a black box.

 

[Shadow]

Pops has in 2020. His cancer was colon and then liver. The VA paid for the test, but how they can determine a cancer was from agent orange seems like it’s a black box.

No idea how, fam. Like I said, I only skimmed that because it was applicable to me or my situation. At a guess I will assume it’s a specific type of cancer and coincides with the time period you were in theater.