48÷2(9+3) = ????
- Thread starter nubian
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Sorry, but she is wrong.
the way she solves it is (100÷5)4 not 100÷5(4)
the brackets make all the difference here ... we must accept the problem as PRESENTED and assume it is written as it was meant to be written by someone who understood the rules ... that is until further proof of otherwise is provided
as you move up through trigonometry and calculus you learn to properly deal with these brackets ...
I disagree with some of your color opinions but math is universal and this is a post I will co-sign my AFRICAN brother
fact is people are on here talking about disregarding the parentheses. there is NO ambiguity brother trek, check this out
in pedmas what does the p stand for? parentheses right?
and our problem is: 48/2(9+3)=
well if we are respecting the order of operations and doing parentheses first then what are we doing to the problem regarding the parenthetical terms? they are two like terms so we combine or SIMPLIFY all parenthetical terms so we get twelve... AHA! we simplified the parethetical term but we did not multiply the 9 and the 3 even though they are touching the parentheses. that is because parentheses simply means, in a mathematical SENTENCE (because this is what it is), that the values here are given priority to simplify. THEREFORE, all of the terms that are touching the parentheses must simply with it BY PRIORITY.
it only happens that when numeric terms are juxtapose to the parentheses you multiply. BUT IT IS PRIORITY OF PARENTHESES that you must respect and so you MUST SIMPLIFY THOSE TERMS FIRST! you brothers are soooooooooo caught up on multiplication and division but are ignoring the first letter of the acronym
+100000000000
According to who.
This is not a direct response to your example, its just a demo of PEMDAS and Simplifying by an instructor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3CZ_JBQ0do
Mathway.com, and I'll accept their opinion over yours.
How is this a debate???
1300 replies over 27 pages???
there are only two terms here
48 and 2(9+3)
if it was written as 48 ÷ 2 x (9+3) then we can go back and forth
either cats is not knowing math or just letting ego and pride get in the way
but this is a bad look for BGOL
How is 48 ÷ 2 x (9+3) not the same as 48 ÷ 2(9+3) since 2 x (9+3) = 2(9+3)?
See the ambiguity!!!
48/2(9+3)+2=
48/2(12)+2=
48/24+2=
2+2=4
it's not a difficult concept to grasp
48/2(12)+2=
48/24+2=
2+2=4
it's not a difficult concept to grasp
Key word there was 'enter'. Enter as input into a calculating device.
But you highlighted it "If it is written" - when you write it out you could use either sign. I had old math books in high school that used both symbols. But if you enter the equation in to a program or a calculator of course it would recognize such an incorrect written equation as a fraction.
But then again to simplify a fraction would be to divide, right? I mean the fraction 48 over 24 is essentially 48 divided by 24 which in both instances would give you 2.
Don't forget I was agreeing with you in this mess.
48/2(9+3)+2=
48/2(12)+2=
48/24+2=
2+2=4
it's not a difficult concept to grasp
48/2(12)+2=
48/24+2=
2+2=4
it's not a difficult concept to grasp
So that confirms that the () are reduce to a multiplication symbol after everything inside is completed. Im not seeing anything where it says you have get rid of the parentheses first then move to the next thing even though you already solved whats inside of it.
Nope. I see the incorrect nature of how you get the answer, but not the ambiguity.
Simplifying... A lesson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3CZ_JBQ0do
And who else. I'll accept someone who has a master in math over yours.
÷ and / are only different when it comes to computing the answers.
You're confusing yourself. Get out a sheet of paper, and do it like she did it.
Who said the owner of Mathway.com doesn't have a masters in Math?
In 2*(9+3) and 2(9+3) you perform the same action you multiply in both. You use PEMDAS to simply them both the same way.
But when there's a ÷ in front of the 2, it can get confusing
with the - or + in front of the 2 you know to multiply regardless because M comes before AS
But when there's a ÷ in front of the 2, it can get confusing
with the - or + in front of the 2 you know to multiply regardless because M comes before AS
pleas regard these steps brother trek because i believe (contrarily) that you ARE seeing where it says you have to get rid of the parentheses first but you are genuinely missing it
1) Parentheses
2) Exponents
3)Multiplication / Division
4)Addition / Subtraction
No. You are adding extra stuff.
Key word there was 'enter'. Enter as input into a calculating device.
But you highlighted it "If it is written" - when you write it out you could use either sign. I had old math books in high school that used both symbols. But if you enter the equation in to a program or a calculator of course it would recognize such an incorrect written equation as a fraction.
But then again to simplify a fraction would be to divide, right? I mean the fraction 48 over 24 is essentially 48 divided by 24 which in both instances would give you 2.
Don't forget I was agreeing with you in this mess.
Oh ok. Just saw "Sorry bub" and jumped to a conclusion.. But yes, thats what it boils down to. Hard heads are sitting here like "How can my calculator be wrong"? But its in fact them telling the calculator to do something thats invalid as written.
This is easily squashed with a sheet of paper.
wtf?
i'm going ot say no and i didn't even have to do the calculation.... you tried to be smart and use a multiplicative inverse but you changed the problem in the process.truly horrific. try that again?
This example should end all the debate.... I see now some people are really being serious and are confused
I've found that the best way to solve an abstract problem is make it real and something people can relate to so the answer is one of common sense and not technicalities ...money is a great way to do this ... so i ask you:
how many quarters are in $10?
(we know that there are 4 quarters in a dollar and since there are 10 dollars the answer is 40)
is the amount of quarters (1/4) in 10 dollars it not equal to:
10 DIVIDED by 1/4??
Do you agree this is the correct way to express the problem mathematically?
or 10 ÷ 1/4?
or simply rather 10 ÷ (1/4) aka 10 ÷(1÷4)
but if you write this as 10 ÷ 1 ÷ 4 you would get 25 quarters which is false
You see there are only two terms here the numerator and the denominator which is a fancy way of saying the divisor and dividend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_(mathematics)
So how many quarters in $10?
well we add the proper brackets to preserve the right function around the 1/4
10÷(1/4) or 10÷(1÷4) which is equal to 40
...Part 2
some people might still be skeptical because I used a fraction and didn't MULTIPLY in the demoniator like in this example 48÷2(9+3) so I will clear that up by changing the question to how many 50 cent pieces can you exchange for $10?
Now we know that there are 20 because there are two 50c pieces per dollar times 10 = 20 and that two quarters equal ONE 50 cent piece
so all we have to do now is multiply the quarter (1/4) in our old problem by 2
10÷2(1/4)
or
10 ÷ (2/4) = 10÷ (1/2) = 10 ÷ (.50)
= 20
there is only one answer to how many quarters and how many 50 cent pieces in 10 dollars ... no ambiguity this is a real world example that I think should help every else
peace
I've found that the best way to solve an abstract problem is make it real and something people can relate to so the answer is one of common sense and not technicalities ...money is a great way to do this ... so i ask you:
how many quarters are in $10?
(we know that there are 4 quarters in a dollar and since there are 10 dollars the answer is 40)
is the amount of quarters (1/4) in 10 dollars it not equal to:
10 DIVIDED by 1/4??
Do you agree this is the correct way to express the problem mathematically?
or 10 ÷ 1/4?
or simply rather 10 ÷ (1/4) aka 10 ÷(1÷4)
but if you write this as 10 ÷ 1 ÷ 4 you would get 25 quarters which is false
You see there are only two terms here the numerator and the denominator which is a fancy way of saying the divisor and dividend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_(mathematics)
So how many quarters in $10?
well we add the proper brackets to preserve the right function around the 1/4
10÷(1/4) or 10÷(1÷4) which is equal to 40
...Part 2
some people might still be skeptical because I used a fraction and didn't MULTIPLY in the demoniator like in this example 48÷2(9+3) so I will clear that up by changing the question to how many 50 cent pieces can you exchange for $10?
Now we know that there are 20 because there are two 50c pieces per dollar times 10 = 20 and that two quarters equal ONE 50 cent piece
so all we have to do now is multiply the quarter (1/4) in our old problem by 2
10÷2(1/4)
or
10 ÷ (2/4) = 10÷ (1/2) = 10 ÷ (.50)
= 20
there is only one answer to how many quarters and how many 50 cent pieces in 10 dollars ... no ambiguity this is a real world example that I think should help every else
peace
÷ and / denote exactly the same thing. To wit, multiply by the reciprocal, you drooling nitwit.
÷ and / mean exactly the same thing, you drooling retard.
To a calculator they do mean the same thing you confused negro you. Please, refrain from interrupting when grown folks are talking.
wtf?
truly horrific. try that again?
so you're trying to say no division problem can't use multiplicative inverse? please show me where.
So you are using mathway.com as your only source to prove that ÷ and / are different from each other. Its generally understood that they are the same. Im not talking about using it in a calculator. You have to do better than this.
I know the steps. But People are saying because the () are still there, you are not done with part 1.
Example
(50/10)-(1+2)+4*8
=(5)-(3)+4*8
I would then multiply 4 by 8 next
But according to other people they would subtract 3 from 5 instead
To a calculator they do mean the same thing you confused negro you. Please, refrain from interrupting when grown folks are talking.
Not all calculators. As you saw, some calculators interpret equations differently from each other because they apply their own conventions (keyword). It might not apply to real life.
No. Im using what Mathway.com is stating, as well as a basic 3rd grade math principal called SIMPLIFYING. You really gonna continue to pretend Simplifying doesnt exist?
see my above post ... but there would be a CASE ambiguity if it were written like:
48 ÷ 2 x (9+3)
there are three terms in that problem .... but this was not the case and we must always assume that the author meant what they said and used the brackets for a reason
brackets are like contractions but they are NOT in them selves symbols ... for example if I asked you how many letter "o"s are there in the word "can't" you would agree that there are ZERO "o"s right?
What if I said that "can't" is a contraction for "can not" there for it has an "o" in it .... would you agree that I would be applying the rule incorrectly?
this is basically what you are doing by rewriting the 2(9+3) as 2*(9+3) in this particular case ... I hope this make sense ... if not just check out my above post
peace
well, then no because the parenthetical terms are not being flanked by numerical values. that is the caveat the other side of the fence seems to be missinterpreting. The parentheses are still there and do not go away but are instead simplified. This is a point i think we are in agreement on although i may be wrong to believe that.
you did not remove them even in your own equation so that is what i conclude from seeing that.
HOWEVER you do have a 'minus' seperating the parentheses which is your indicator to abandon those set of parentheses once you have simplified them as much as possible.
besides we are all using the parentheses to multiply so we KNOW they don't go away. once you simplify the 9 and 3 terms at SOME point they had to be used to multiply. however, the sign didn't do this:
48/2*12
(and never has in any example you or i have ever seen)
it REMAINS a parentheses (which we know to mean MULTIPLY when JUXTAPOSED to a NUMERICAL VALUE).
48/2(12)
parentheses get what? priority, that's right. so are you going to simplify it or just ignore the fact there are parentheses there and change the equation as you see fit?
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