48÷2(9+3) = ????

Your Answer?


  • Total voters
    1,086
They must get hit with 10,000 emails a day about this shit. But this is great. Reinforces what most have said from the beginning that 2(9+3) is the denominator because its after the ÷. No surprises here.




You're the perfect example of why blacks don't succeed in this world. Blacks just aren't humble enough, and most are arrogant without reason. Live up to your user-name homes. The wise aren't arrogant. The wise are open and susceptible to learning. You can't be wise by being a know it all.. You were wrong. Admit it and move on. The world won't end.

Fam, I have been flexible from the get by showing y and when both answers make sense. Reread this thread. I was the first to make that proposition. Hell, even you still don't see that. You r the obstinate and recalcitrant one here. Stop projecting.
 
Last edited:
Hold up, playa. This attitude has gotten me a job as a quantitative analyst on one of the worlds largest commodities exchanges, programmer for weight and balance software used on airplanes, systems analyst gigs, teaching at a juco, etc. so it hasn't stopped me so far. What quant positions have u held?
O RLY????

I am going to lump you with alexw and nycmicrowave :smh: you need to reset ya life LOL
 
O RLY????

I am going to lump you with alexw and nycmicrowave :smh: you need to reset ya life LOL

v5iakp.jpg
 
What's the record for the longest non-ock, non-tech thread on this board? This is still going on 35 pages later.
 
Fam, I have been flexible from the get by showing y and when both answers make sense. Reread this thread. I was the first to make state that 3rd option. Hell, even you still don't see that. You r the obstinate and recalcitrant one here. Stop projecting.

You just had a reputable Math site tell you the answer is 2. They do this shit for a living. You still want to debate the non-debatable, and Im the stubborn one? I understand how some get 288. Mathway stated in their response that they understand why some get 288. But in the end, the correct answer is 2. I cant make you believe it, but that's what it is, sir.
 
O RLY????

I am going to lump you with alexw and nycmicrowave :smh: you need to reset ya life LOL

Ok. Why do you nor Nathan answer the question regarding quant experience? He said I'm the reason blacks don't succeed. I think not listening to those that are elders in this area is a greater offense. You and Nathan are obstinate.

I have offered nothing but flexibility in this thread. Rawness resisted that proposition. You resisted. You were both on different sides of the fence. However; Rawness, nycmicrowave, alex, and tre2k4 gave the best answer imho. I never said you or Nathan were wrong. If that makes me arrogant in your's and Nathan's eyes, fuck it. Not sure what else to say.
 
Ok. Why do you nor Nathan answer the question regarding quant experience? He said I'm the reason blacks don't succeed. I think not listening to those that are elders in this area is a greater offense. You and Nathan are obstinate.
Ok. :)
 
Hold up, playa. This attitude has gotten me a job as a quantitative analyst on one of the worlds largest commodities exchanges, programmer for weight and balance software used on airplanes, systems analyst gigs, teaching at a juco, etc. so it hasn't stopped me so far. What quant positions have u held?

Really? What airline uses the software? I need to know so I can not fly with them motherfuckers.
 
You just had a reputable Math site tell you the answer is 2. They do this shit for a living. You still want to debate the non-debatable, and Im the stubborn one? I understand how some get 288. Mathway stated in their response that they understand why some get 288. But in the end, the correct answer is 2. I cant make you believe it, but that's what it is, sir.

Mathway's answer was paralogistic. Answers don't matter to me. Logic does.
 
You know what would be boss? If certain folks in this thread actually pulled out a piece of paper and a pencil and worked this problem themselves. All jokes aside. I think it wold clearly sway the last 40%.
 
It's on page 2 and I will post it here since you don't want to....
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm
This next example displays an issue that almost never arises but, when it does, there seems to be no end to the arguing.
Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 – 3(4 – 2)] + 1.
16 ÷ 2[8 – 3(4 – 2)] + 1
= 16 ÷ 2[8 – 3(2)] + 1
= 16 ÷ 2[8 – 6] + 1
= 16 ÷ 2[2] + 1 (**)
= 16 ÷ 4 + 1
= 4 + 1
= 5

The confusing part in the above calculation is how "16 divided by 2[2] + 1" (in the line marked with the double-star) becomes "16 divided by 4 + 1", instead of "8 times by 2 + 1". That's because, even though multiplication and division are at the same level (so the eft-to-right rule should apply), parentheses outrank division, so the first 2 goes with the [2], rather than with the "16 divided by". That is, multiplication that is indicated by placement against parentheses (or brackets, etc) is "stronger" than "regular" multiplication. Typesetting the entire problem in a graphing calculator verifies this hierarchy:

order12.gif

**the photo on the site shows how the calculator/computer entry changes the answer**

Note that different software will process this differently; even different models of Texas Instruments graphing calculators will process this differently. In cases of ambiguity, be very careful of your parentheses, and make your meaning clear. The general consensus among math people is that "multiplication by juxtaposition" (that is, multiplying by just putting things next to each other, rather than using the "×" sign) indicates that the juxtaposed values must be multiplied together before processing other operations. But not all software is programmed this way, and sometimes teachers view things differently. If in doubt, ask!
(And please do not send me an e-mail either asking for or else proffering a definitive verdict on this issue. As far as I know, there is no such final verdict. And telling me to do this your way will not solve the issue!)
************************************
In summary, this is a problem where you can use your brain to solve it. But if you choose to use a device, please know how to use the device. Thanks.
...
 
all i can say is based on the logic of 2 reputable sources one of which answered this exact problem AS WRITTEN came back with the answer 2. the fact that your calculator/experience means nothing if you are not open or receptive to the fact that either you are wrong or your logic is wrong. this thread has gone on for 35 pages, honestly that is 34 more than it needed to.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended and I forgive all who have cracked jokes and resorted to name calling (it is a porn board after all, its all jus jokes!!) but the answer is 2. as written it will always be 2 and yes OMG can you believe it calculators and even Google can be wrong too?! that was all explained earlier too.

lets put this baby to rest and call it /thread

*** also not to crack jokes, but i never fly delta (personal experiences). if southwest wasnt so cheap sometimes I probably wouldnt fly them either, but the above post might partially explain why they are so cheap***
 
*** also not to crack jokes, but i never fly delta (personal experiences). if southwest wasnt so cheap sometimes I probably wouldnt fly them either, but the above post might partially explain why they are so cheap***
OMFG!! :roflmao: that is sooooo not fair, but funny as hell though....

I am shouting out Southwest for the best fares & free luggage, and shouting out Delta/NW/KLM for my international flights....I will not hold wize's arrogance (and forgetting algebra since he now is in 'quantitative analysis') against airlines in general.
 
Most of the top carriers use the software I'm speaking of. Nice try. :smh:

all i can say is based on the logic of 2 reputable sources one of which answered this exact problem AS WRITTEN came back with the answer 2. the fact that your calculator/experience means nothing if you are not open or receptive to the fact that either you are wrong or your logic is wrong. this thread has gone on for 35 pages, honestly that is 34 more than it needed to.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended and I forgive all who have cracked jokes and resorted to name calling (it is a porn board after all, its all jus jokes!!) but the answer is 2. as written it will always be 2 and yes OMG can you believe it calculators and even Google can be wrong too?! that was all explained earlier too.

lets put this baby to rest and call it /thread

*** also not to crack jokes, but i never fly delta (personal experiences). if southwest wasnt so cheap sometimes I probably wouldnt fly them either, but the above post might partially explain why they are so cheap***
 
Most of the top carriers use the software I'm speaking of. Nice try. :smh:

all i can say is based on the logic of 2 reputable sources one of which answered this exact problem AS WRITTEN came back with the answer 2. the fact that your calculator/experience means nothing if you are not open or receptive to the fact that either you are wrong or your logic is wrong. this thread has gone on for 35 pages, honestly that is 34 more than it needed to.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended and I forgive all who have cracked jokes and resorted to name calling (it is a porn board after all, its all jus jokes!!) but the answer is 2. as written it will always be 2 and yes OMG can you believe it calculators and even Google can be wrong too?! that was all explained earlier too.

lets put this baby to rest and call it /thread

*** also not to crack jokes, but i never fly delta (personal experiences). if southwest wasnt so cheap sometimes I probably wouldnt fly them either, but the above post might partially explain why they are so cheap***
 
oh by the way, the insults may be a bit overkill but they are because you are not listening you are just pushing a point that is incorrect for the sake of argument, which is a true bitch move. i mean that is what my bitches do. stop and think about this for a minute and stop arguing something you really don't comprehend and in truth, i know you don't otherwise there would be no way to dispute it.

right....actually I am really just trying to understand. In your "superiority" to me you have discovered that I know I'm incorrect and just feel like wasting time on here. I wouldn't still be on this topic if I didn't think there was a chance that I could be mistaken, but I'm man enough to admit that. It's always on the internet or in a two ton vehicle driving away at 70 mph that dudes always talk trash to make themselves feel better, but when face to face....well you know the rest. I've found that in a discussion it's "bitches" who turn to insults when they discover that they can't hold a civil conversation. Even if someone is incorrect, they could have logically gotten to that conclusion which doesn't make them stupid or a bitch, just incorrect. This situation is a prime example, no matter which side is right, of the people with the wrong answer logically coming to that conclusion. I'm sure you've got more knowledge than me in other subjects, and I probably have got you on some as well. But you won't see me on here doing this :dance: in your face because I "know" I'm right.
 
Knowing the source of question would lead me to believe its 288.
Its all about convention. Of course you can get 2 from this equation but from my research and the evidence I presented, I say its 288


Its too many conflicting examples. After looking at this video, the way she did it, you would get 288 applying the same method. PEMDA is part of the simplifying process. The 48 is outside the bracket as well. Because the 2 is behind the division sign, it must take heed to it first before you multiply. Distribution is a form of multiplication. If there is any scholarly evidence that this form of multiplication comes before Dividing using the rules of PEMDA,then I need to see it.
How is 48÷2(9+3)

different from

48
---(9+3)
2

If they are different, then its because of the / and ÷.

You cant say that 2(x) and 2*(x) are never the same because there some instance they are.

There reason people are getting two different answers is simply because of assumptions and/or convention. This is why 2 and 288 are both right.

Flipside
If the 2 have to cater to (9+3), its because of the () are still there. So people think because its still there you have to multiply it times 2. PEMDA doesnt specify anything about a number outside of () because usually there is a sign if front of it.

8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(12)+2

So do you have to subtract it first because the () are still there? Or do you divide first?



8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(12)(2)

Do you have to multiply first or divide first?

It seems like the higher precedence for implied multiplication is relative to calculators. So I dont know if this can be a strong argument unless its stated in text or sources unrelated to how a calculator interprets equations.
aP7Gg.jpg

Entering this equation into
Ada
C
C++
Excel
Fortran
Java
PL/1
VBA
SNOBOL
VBA

Will give you 288



I unwittingly created this storm on Wednesday night (4-6-2011 9pm) by posting my son’s 6th grade math homework problem to facebook. It spread and less than 12 hours later was already being discussed in the UK and other countries.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/48293

The only way to find out the true answer is to wait to hear from the teacher who assigned this problem then we will know what their intention was.

From reading the numerous responses where people didnt know that Multiplication and Division are the same rank and the fact that not too many people know that implied multiplication has higher precedence over division (in some cases) and this problem comes a 6th grade class, the answer has to be 288.


Without the source of the question, there is really no answer to this question that people can agree on. I was wrong earlier, the problem is ambiguous.

Heres a post I found that is 9 yrs old that speaks of the same thing
: This has to do with what I always called implied multiplication, but don't see that phrase anywhere. Presenting two problems: (DS stands for the traditional division symbol that I do not know how to make with out equation editor) 105 DS ab where a=3 and b=5 Do you multiple 5 by 3 and then divide 105 by that product or do you divide 105 by 3 and then multiply by 5? SEcond problem is 12 DS 2(6-3)+3^2-1. do you multiply 2 by the difference of 6 and 3 first and then divide 12 by that product or do you divide 12 by 2 and then multiply by the 3? I need references, not just opinions. We already have lots of those.

Here, we offer help based on our accumulated knowledge. This is not a free research service. You want references, find them yourself.

Here's what I can offer you.
1. "/" is the accepted symbol for division
2. Multiplication and division have equal precedence.
3. Parentheses have a higher precedence than any arithmetic operator, so expressions in parentheses are always evaluated first.
4. SOME TEXTS (and some calculators) adopt their own rule that binds ab together more tightly than a*b, in effect treating ab as being equivalent to (a*b).

5. By CONVENTION (not by "law") the associativity of multiplication, division, addition and subtraction is left to right. Therefore, in the absence of parentheses, BY CONVENTION, these operations are simply evaluated sequentially from left to right. There is no "mathematical law" that requires this; it is simply a convention that is (nearly?) universally accepted. Without this convention, expressions like 105 / 3 * 5 would simply be ambiguous. There would be no way for people to agree as to how to evaluate such expressions in the absence of parentheses.
6. There is NO SUCH CONVENTION concerning "implied multiplication". SOME PEOPLE choose to say ab => (a*b). Most people would say ab => a*b.

IN MY OPINION, those who take it upon themselves to adopt a "new convention" (which is not a convention because it is not generally agreed upon) do us all a disservice by introducing ambiguity where there was none before. Perhaps a better convention is this: don't use implied multiplication because it is ambiguous.
But unfortunately, that's not a convention either. It's just my opinion.

So (again, in my opinion) "105 DS ab where a=3 and b=5"
=> 105/3*5 = (105/3)*5 = 35*5 = 175

And, "12 DS 2(6-3)+3^2"
=> ((12/2)*(6-3)) + 3^2

http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/gather/main/messages/15460.html

:lol:
 
This backs up my intention theory even though I got called delusional for speaking about intentions. At least I back my shit up
Order of Operations

Date: 05/19/99 at 13:54:24
From: Stephanie Wu and Meghan Heil
Subject: Algebraic expressions and order of operation

The problem was presented like this:

a = 1.56
b = 1.2
x = 7.2
y = 0.2

ax/by = ?

Here are two ways that I solved it:

1) I first rewrote the problem as [1.56(7.2)/ 1.2](0.2). Second, a was
multiplied by x. The product was 11.232. Then, since no parentheses
were present, I followed the order of operations and divided 11.232 by
b, which was 1.2. The quotient was 9.36. Then I multiplied 9.36 by y,
which was 0.2. The final answer was 1.872.

2) The other way, the first thing I did was multiply a by x. The
product, which was 11.232, was set aside for the time being. Then b
was multiplied by y, which gave the product of 0.24. The problem was
now solved by dividing 11.232 (or ax) by 0.24 (or by) to reach a final
answer of 46.8.

Can you please tell us which answer is correct and why?

Date: 05/19/99 at 17:03:49
From: Doctor Peterson
Subject: Re: Algebraic expressions and order of operation

Hi, Stephanie and Meghan.

You are not alone in wondering about this. We have had several other
questions about expressions similar to yours, from confused teachers
and students who have found that different books or teachers have
different answers, and even calculators disagree.

As written, your expression

ax/by

should be evaluated left to right: a times x, divided by b, times y.
The multiplication is not done before the division, but both are done
in the order they appear. Your first solution is right.

Some texts make a rule, as in your second solution, that
multiplication without a symbol ("implied multiplication") should be
done before any other operations in an expression, including "explicit
multiplication" using a symbol. Following this rule, you would
multiply a by x, then multiply b and y, then divide one by the other.
Some (probably most) texts don't mention such a rule - but some of
those may use it without saying so, which is far worse.

I don't know of a general rule among mathematicians that implied
multiplication should be done before explicit multiplication. As far
as I'm concerned, all multiplications fit in the same place in the
order of operations. It's not an unreasonable rule, though, since it
does seem that implied multiplication ties the operands together more
tightly, at least visually; but the idea of Order of Operations (or
precedence, as it is called in the computer world) is supposed to be
to ensure that everyone will interpret an otherwise ambiguous
expression the same way - so if some texts change the rules, or if
people do what feels natural, the purpose has been lost.

The problem here is that the expression looks as if it were meant to
be

ax
----
by

In the Dr. Math FAQ about writing math in e-mail, one of our
recommendations is to use parentheses wherever possible to avoid
ambiguity, even where the rules should make it clear, because it can
be easy to forget them in some situations:

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.typing.math.html

(click on the Fractions link).

So in e-mail we would write it like this:

ax/(by) or (ax/b)*y

depending on what is intended.

In my research for another Dr. Math "patient," I found that some
calculators have experimented with this rule. Calculators have
somewhat different needs than mathematicians, since they have to take
input linearly, one character after another, so they are forced to
make a decision about it. On the TI Web site I learned that they
deliberately put this "feature" into the TI 82, and then took it out
of the TI 83, probably because they decided it was not a standard rule
and would confuse people. Take a look at their explanation:

http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/faq/83faq039.htm

They also talk about a similar issue for exponentiation of the form
a^b^c, and give the same conclusion we give: always use parentheses
where a statement is ambiguous without special rules:

http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/faq/83faq058.htm

So to answer your question, I think both answers can be considered
right - which means, of course, that the question itself is wrong. I
prefer the standard way (your first answer) when talking to students,
unless their own text gives the "implicit multiplication first" rule;
but in practice if I came across that expression, I would probably
first check where it came from to see if I could tell what was
intended. The main lesson to learn is not which rule to follow, but
how to avoid ambiguity in what you write yourself. Don't give other
people this kind of trouble.

- Doctor Peterson, The Math Forum
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/54341.html
 
Here you go sweetheart, figure it out AGAIN!

* In Mathematics, the order in which mathematical problems are solved is extremely important.

Rules

1. Calculations must be done from left to right.

2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first.

3. Exponents (or radicals) must be done next.

4. Multiply and divide in the order the operations occur.

5. Add and subtract in the order the operations occur.


Following ^these^ rules you do WHAT'S INSIDE THE PARENTHESES FIRST, NOT what's next to, outside of or attached to them, only what's INSIDE!!!

Since multiplication and division are now all that's left, you now follow rules 1 AND 4, you go from left to right, multiply and divide IN THE ORDER THE OPERATIONS OCCUR!!!

48 / 2 (9+3)

48 / 2 (12), now we go from left to right,

48 / 2 is 24 (12)

24 (12) = 288

Any questions?

:yes::yes::yes::yes:
Their interpretation PEMDAS incorrect, they see the M before D and assume that, multiplication comes before division all the time. Where in PEMDAS both division and multiplication are equal and the order of operations depends on their positioning from left to right.

[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
:roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3:
:itsawrap::itsawrap::itsawrap:
 
You got it wrong homie.

48÷2(9+3)

Parentheses first

(9+3) = 12

THEN YOU HAVE 48/2(12)

After that you work left to right

24(12)

288

Multiplication and division are the same, therefore you work right to left after you do the parentheses.

Least that's what I recall lol. I could be wrong.


Wrong fam.......

48 ÷ 2(9+3)

48 / 2(9+3)

48 / 2(12)

48 / 24

2
 
Wrong fam.......

48 ÷ 2(9+3)

48 / 2(9+3)

48 / 2(12)

48 / 24

2

After what I posted in my last 2 posts it really doesnt matter but you added a space that wasnt in the original problem. People will skip over what I said or refuse to believe what I posted and still say what they want to say.

I could of easily wrote it 48/2 (9+3)

The 2 is touching the both ÷ & ( in the problem posted

The question is too ambiguous

Its like trying to solve 1/2(5) and 5(1/2) and trying to get the same answer
 
Wrong fam.......

48 ÷ 2(9+3)

48 / 2(9+3)

48 / 2(12)

48 / 24

2
this has been stated, explained, and identical examples given from a credible website (even the same website was posted by some of the people STILL claiming the answer is 288), and people are still stuck on stupid. It's a lost cause. Stereotypes come from truth most of the time....

This is sad. :smh: you can bring a horse to the water...
 
Fam, these cats won't believe you until YT or Jesus (Supreme YT) says it. :(

Knowing the source of question would lead me to believe its 288.
Its all about convention. Of course you can get 2 from this equation but from my research and the evidence I presented, I say its 288


Its too many conflicting examples. After looking at this video, the way she did it, you would get 288 applying the same method. PEMDA is part of the simplifying process. The 48 is outside the bracket as well. Because the 2 is behind the division sign, it must take heed to it first before you multiply. Distribution is a form of multiplication. If there is any scholarly evidence that this form of multiplication comes before Dividing using the rules of PEMDA,then I need to see it.
How is 48÷2(9+3)

different from

48
---(9+3)
2

If they are different, then its because of the / and ÷.

You cant say that 2(x) and 2*(x) are never the same because there some instance they are.

There reason people are getting two different answers is simply because of assumptions and/or convention. This is why 2 and 288 are both right.

Flipside
If the 2 have to cater to (9+3), its because of the () are still there. So people think because its still there you have to multiply it times 2. PEMDA doesnt specify anything about a number outside of () because usually there is a sign if front of it.

8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(12)+2

So do you have to subtract it first because the () are still there? Or do you divide first?



8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(12)(2)

Do you have to multiply first or divide first?

It seems like the higher precedence for implied multiplication is relative to calculators. So I dont know if this can be a strong argument unless its stated in text or sources unrelated to how a calculator interprets equations.
aP7Gg.jpg

Entering this equation into
Ada
C
C++
Excel
Fortran
Java
PL/1
VBA
SNOBOL
VBA

Will give you 288




http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/48293

The only way to find out the true answer is to wait to hear from the teacher who assigned this problem then we will know what their intention was.

From reading the numerous responses where people didnt know that Multiplication and Division are the same rank and the fact that not too many people know that implied multiplication has higher precedence over division (in some cases) and this problem comes a 6th grade class, the answer has to be 288.


Without the source of the question, there is really no answer to this question that people can agree on. I was wrong earlier, the problem is ambiguous.

Heres a post I found that is 9 yrs old that speaks of the same thing


http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/gather/main/messages/15460.html

:lol:
 
this has been stated, explained, and identical examples given from a credible website (even the same website was posted by some of the people STILL claiming the answer is 288), and people are still stuck on stupid. It's a lost cause. Stereotypes come from truth most of the time....

This is sad. :smh: you can bring a horse to the water...

It can be either one. Go ahead and get your evidence that over turn what I stated. The question is too ambiguous to stick to one answer.
 
Dispute this.....
Knowing the source of question would lead me to believe its 288.
Its all about convention. Of course you can get 2 from this equation but from my research and the evidence I presented, I say its 288


Its too many conflicting examples. After looking at this video, the way she did it, you would get 288 applying the same method. PEMDA is part of the simplifying process. The 48 is outside the bracket as well. Because the 2 is behind the division sign, it must take heed to it first before you multiply. Distribution is a form of multiplication. If there is any scholarly evidence that this form of multiplication comes before Dividing using the rules of PEMDA,then I need to see it.
How is 48÷2(9+3)

different from

48
---(9+3)
2

If they are different, then its because of the / and ÷.

You cant say that 2(x) and 2*(x) are never the same because there some instance they are.

There reason people are getting two different answers is simply because of assumptions and/or convention. This is why 2 and 288 are both right.

Flipside
If the 2 have to cater to (9+3), its because of the () are still there. So people think because its still there you have to multiply it times 2. PEMDA doesnt specify anything about a number outside of () because usually there is a sign if front of it.

8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(9+3)+2
=8/4-(12)+2

So do you have to subtract it first because the () are still there? Or do you divide first?



8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(9+3)(2)
=8/4-(12)(2)

Do you have to multiply first or divide first?

It seems like the higher precedence for implied multiplication is relative to calculators. So I dont know if this can be a strong argument unless its stated in text or sources unrelated to how a calculator interprets equations.
aP7Gg.jpg

Entering this equation into
Ada
C
C++
Excel
Fortran
Java
PL/1
VBA
SNOBOL
VBA

Will give you 288




http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/48293

The only way to find out the true answer is to wait to hear from the teacher who assigned this problem then we will know what their intention was.

From reading the numerous responses where people didnt know that Multiplication and Division are the same rank and the fact that not too many people know that implied multiplication has higher precedence over division (in some cases) and this problem comes a 6th grade class, the answer has to be 288.


Without the source of the question, there is really no answer to this question that people can agree on. I was wrong earlier, the problem is ambiguous.

Heres a post I found that is 9 yrs old that speaks of the same thing


http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/gather/main/messages/15460.html

:lol:


Order of Operations

Date: 05/19/99 at 13:54:24
From: Stephanie Wu and Meghan Heil
Subject: Algebraic expressions and order of operation

The problem was presented like this:

a = 1.56
b = 1.2
x = 7.2
y = 0.2

ax/by = ?

Here are two ways that I solved it:

1) I first rewrote the problem as [1.56(7.2)/ 1.2](0.2). Second, a was
multiplied by x. The product was 11.232. Then, since no parentheses
were present, I followed the order of operations and divided 11.232 by
b, which was 1.2. The quotient was 9.36. Then I multiplied 9.36 by y,
which was 0.2. The final answer was 1.872.

2) The other way, the first thing I did was multiply a by x. The
product, which was 11.232, was set aside for the time being. Then b
was multiplied by y, which gave the product of 0.24. The problem was
now solved by dividing 11.232 (or ax) by 0.24 (or by) to reach a final
answer of 46.8.

Can you please tell us which answer is correct and why?

Date: 05/19/99 at 17:03:49
From: Doctor Peterson
Subject: Re: Algebraic expressions and order of operation

Hi, Stephanie and Meghan.

You are not alone in wondering about this. We have had several other
questions about expressions similar to yours, from confused teachers
and students who have found that different books or teachers have
different answers, and even calculators disagree.

As written, your expression

ax/by

should be evaluated left to right: a times x, divided by b, times y.
The multiplication is not done before the division, but both are done
in the order they appear. Your first solution is right.

Some texts make a rule, as in your second solution, that
multiplication without a symbol ("implied multiplication") should be
done before any other operations in an expression, including "explicit
multiplication" using a symbol. Following this rule, you would
multiply a by x, then multiply b and y, then divide one by the other.
Some (probably most) texts don't mention such a rule - but some of
those may use it without saying so, which is far worse.

I don't know of a general rule among mathematicians that implied
multiplication should be done before explicit multiplication. As far
as I'm concerned, all multiplications fit in the same place in the
order of operations. It's not an unreasonable rule, though, since it
does seem that implied multiplication ties the operands together more
tightly, at least visually; but the idea of Order of Operations (or
precedence, as it is called in the computer world) is supposed to be
to ensure that everyone will interpret an otherwise ambiguous
expression the same way - so if some texts change the rules, or if
people do what feels natural, the purpose has been lost.

The problem here is that the expression looks as if it were meant to
be

ax
----
by

In the Dr. Math FAQ about writing math in e-mail, one of our
recommendations is to use parentheses wherever possible to avoid
ambiguity, even where the rules should make it clear, because it can
be easy to forget them in some situations:

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.typing.math.html

(click on the Fractions link).

So in e-mail we would write it like this:

ax/(by) or (ax/b)*y

depending on what is intended.

In my research for another Dr. Math "patient," I found that some
calculators have experimented with this rule. Calculators have
somewhat different needs than mathematicians, since they have to take
input linearly, one character after another, so they are forced to
make a decision about it. On the TI Web site I learned that they
deliberately put this "feature" into the TI 82, and then took it out
of the TI 83, probably because they decided it was not a standard rule
and would confuse people. Take a look at their explanation:

http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/faq/83faq039.htm

They also talk about a similar issue for exponentiation of the form
a^b^c, and give the same conclusion we give: always use parentheses
where a statement is ambiguous without special rules:

http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/faq/83faq058.htm

So to answer your question, I think both answers can be considered
right - which means, of course, that the question itself is wrong. I
prefer the standard way (your first answer) when talking to students,
unless their own text gives the "implicit multiplication first" rule;
but in practice if I came across that expression, I would probably
first check where it came from to see if I could tell what was
intended. The main lesson to learn is not which rule to follow, but
how to avoid ambiguity in what you write yourself. Don't give other
people this kind of trouble.

- Doctor Peterson, The Math Forum
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/54341.html

This has to do with what I always called implied multiplication, but don't see that phrase anywhere. Presenting two problems: (DS stands for the traditional division symbol that I do not know how to make with out equation editor) 105 DS ab where a=3 and b=5 Do you multiple 5 by 3 and then divide 105 by that product or do you divide 105 by 3 and then multiply by 5? SEcond problem is 12 DS 2(6-3)+3^2-1. do you multiply 2 by the difference of 6 and 3 first and then divide 12 by that product or do you divide 12 by 2 and then multiply by the 3? I need references, not just opinions. We already have lots of those.

Here, we offer help based on our accumulated knowledge. This is not a free research service. You want references, find them yourself.

Here's what I can offer you.
1. "/" is the accepted symbol for division
2. Multiplication and division have equal precedence.
3. Parentheses have a higher precedence than any arithmetic operator, so expressions in parentheses are always evaluated first.
4. SOME TEXTS (and some calculators) adopt their own rule that binds ab together more tightly than a*b, in effect treating ab as being equivalent to (a*b).

5. By CONVENTION (not by "law") the associativity of multiplication, division, addition and subtraction is left to right. Therefore, in the absence of parentheses, BY CONVENTION, these operations are simply evaluated sequentially from left to right. There is no "mathematical law" that requires this; it is simply a convention that is (nearly?) universally accepted. Without this convention, expressions like 105 / 3 * 5 would simply be ambiguous. There would be no way for people to agree as to how to evaluate such expressions in the absence of parentheses.
6. There is NO SUCH CONVENTION concerning "implied multiplication". SOME PEOPLE choose to say ab => (a*b). Most people would say ab => a*b.

IN MY OPINION, those who take it upon themselves to adopt a "new convention" (which is not a convention because it is not generally agreed upon) do us all a disservice by introducing ambiguity where there was none before. Perhaps a better convention is this: don't use implied multiplication because it is ambiguous.
But unfortunately, that's not a convention either. It's just my opinion.

So (again, in my opinion) "105 DS ab where a=3 and b=5"
=> 105/3*5 = (105/3)*5 = 35*5 = 175

And, "12 DS 2(6-3)+3^2"
=> ((12/2)*(6-3)) + 3^2

http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/gather/main/messages/15460.html
 
Back
Top