Kareem's Open Letter To Pippen For His Comments About Lebron...

[Complex]

It's kind of crazy when the only argument you have is that players are taller and on average more athletic, but dudes don't see that. Are they better fundamentally and can they shoot better?

all this atheleticism talk smh only like 6 players in the league have a real jumpshot everybody could shoot back then

doh

some people are arguing that wilt chamberlain would not be able to compete athletically with today's NBA player?



wilt chamberlain was faster, stronger, and a better leaper than 100% of today's players at either the 4 or the 5.

basketball i.q.=0

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Exactly... which is exactly why Tim Duncan is arguably the best power forward to have ever played the game yet wasn't physically imposing. He wasn't called the "Big Fundamental" for nothing. It's difficult if not impossible to discount the fundamentals of the game. All of these younger players who enter the league have difficult succeeding UNTIL they learn the building blocks of the game. A house built on sand will not stand.

which is why duncan could play back then

duncan is the perfect example
he dominated cause of his skill and got rings as the anchor without out of this world freakish physical talent
why?
cause if u have fundamentals you can play this game

bill, wilt, kareem had fundamentals PLUS they were gifted
there is no way they would not dominate today's nba
simply because basketball has the exact same principles today as it did back then

athletic ability doesn't do anything for you but mask you can't play until its gone, then its OBVIOUS you don't know how to play basketball

 

[Uncontainable_Spirit]

which is why duncan could play back then

duncan is the perfect example
he dominated cause of his skill and got rings as the anchor without out of this world freakish physical talent
why?
cause if u have fundamentals you can play this game

bill, wilt, kareem had fundamentals PLUS they were gifted
there is no way they would not dominate today's nba
simply because basketball has the exact same principles today as it did back then

athletic ability doesn't do anything for you but mask you can't play until its gone, then its OBVIOUS you don't know how to play basketball

/thread

 

[BronxBomber]

All that being said Timmy one of the Greatest did not average 50 pts a game.

Different Eras brothers. Can not compare.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

All that being said Timmy one of the Greatest did not average 50 pts a game.

Different Eras brothers. Can not compare.

but timmy wasn't wilt or kareem either

 

[Spectrum]

but timmy wasn't wilt or kareem either

Yo. Im in support of Kareem... and I definitely think Wilt would by far be the greatest center in the game today...but that 50 points a game shit is out of the door.... high 20s man...and that still would make him the top center.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Yo. Im in support of Kareem... and I definitely think Wilt would by far be the greatest center in the game today...but that 50 points a game shit is out of the door.... high 20s man...and that still would make him the top center.

i don't think they'd average 50
i think they could average 30 easily.
nobody could stop them at all. and they wanted to score
their competitive spirit would have gotten wilt that 30 a night. and kareem's too

 

[BronxBomber]

i don't think they'd average 50
i think they could average 30 easily.
nobody could stop them at all. and they wanted to score
their competitive spirit would have gotten wilt that 30 a night. and kareem's too

Damn this is all I was saying from my first post

High twenties Ill give him thirties for 3 seasons.

Dont think even fair to compare but if I had to bet Id say he would be Hakeem, with some Timmy sprinkled in.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Damn this is all I was saying from my first post

High twenties Ill give him thirties for 3 seasons.

Dont think even fair to compare but if I had to bet Id say he would be Hakeem, with some Timmy sprinkled in.

30 for 8 minimum
these dudes were hogs in a good way
they wanted to score...which is why they were at the top of the list

wanting to score +
their ability to do it=
30+ a night EASY

 

[mumra]

Affectionately,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
NBA'S ALL-TIME LEADING SCORER

 

[shaddyvillethug]

I would serve Cousy

 

[cskii]

Of those three (only two are centers), Olajuwon is only one on close to the level of Wilt and Russell. I loved Patrick Ewing but he didn't have the killer instinct of Russell and Chamberlain's power would have given him trouble.

If he did it against Reed and Russell; he would have did it against Ewind and Dream. I don't think you take into consideration that Wilt rarely had to play up to his full potential. Could you imagine scoring 100 points while on cruise control. They also didn't have the technologies of the 90's; such as sports medicine and film study. Take the stats on face value, or take the time to fully calculate the all factors that play into the strengths and weaknesses between era's.

 

[Dbl Mny]

Enough of all that there were only 8 teams so talent was thick. There were only 8 teams because the talent could only support 8 teams, if that many. You think they were turning away talented players back then? As there was more talent the league expanded. You will always have more teams than talent. Out of those 8 I'm sure 4 or more sucked. Why do you think Russell won so many in a row?

 

[Costanza]

Bill played on a total of 11 championship teams and as you very well know, Scottie, the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics.

Great points about Wilt but this part is just bullshit... Everybody talks about how in an eight-team league the teams were more stacked but what about the corollary-- Is it easier to win as 1 of 8 teams or 1 of 30 competitors?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Enough of all that there were only 8 teams so talent was thick. There were only 8 teams because the talent could only support 8 teams, if that many. You think they were turning away talented players back then? As there was more talent the league expanded. You will always have more teams than talent. Out of those 8 I'm sure 4 or more sucked. Why do you think Russell won so many in a row?

bull shit
there was more than abundance of talent back then
if not then how come a whole new league formed with the left over talent that the nba didn't take?

 

[Chitownheadbusa]

I got respect for Kareem, Bill and Wilt, but the fact that most of us werent around during those times, hence we cant comment on Bill's and Wilt's success is really a silly justification to Kareem's perspective.

I wasnt around during those times but Ive seen a shit load of games from that era. Theres no way I or anyone else can look at Bill's and Wilt's career and the type of players that they faced and say they had a tougher road to success than MJ.


You all are cosigning Kareem, but imo he's really not trying to give props or acknowledge to accomplishments of the great Bill and Wilt...he's basically trying to discredit MJ accomplishments by pointing out reasons why other players are better than MJ.

Just like I can say that Babe Ruth wasnt the truth mainly because some of that best baseball players during that era were in the Negro leagues...i can also say Bill and Wilt werent the greatest ever...but just the greatest of their time due to the talent that they faced.

You all are typing about todays NBA....but Jordan didnt play in todays NBA. So many things have changed since Jordan was in his prime and winning titles. IMO if Jordan wouldve played during that era he wouldve still dominated, mainly because he was a EXTREMELY competitive Man that was willing to conform so he could own/shit all over his opponents. If Wilt and Bill wouldve played during Jordans era i.e. when Big Men dominated..hence one of the reasons why MJ worked on his Jumper....those 2 wouldnt get the stats or rings that they got back when they were playing in a mostly European league that had barely evolved into something great..

 

[Amajorfucup]

I would serve Cousy

You would serve him food and drink and hope he tips well but thats about it.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Great points about Wilt but this part is just bullshit... Everybody talks about how in an eight-team league the teams were more stacked but what about the corollary-- Is it easier to win as 1 of 8 teams or 1 of 30 competitors?

man do you guys not get it? there are 30 teams now
and realistically 4 or 5 teams had a legit shot to win the championship
3 more had an outside dark horse chance to get there
That's 8 teams...
the other 22 were just playing to collect checks


before the season began

in the east
Atlanta, Cleveland, New York, Philadelphia, Indiana, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington and Toronto had absolutely ZERO CHANCE TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
and you were fooling yourself and in denial if you thought they did.
the only people who believed any of these teams could win it all, were fans of said team.
any objective fan knew before game 1 they were not going to do it.

in the west
Denver, portland, minnesota, utah, clippers, suns, kings, rockets, and hornets had no chance to win it

grizzlies became the dark horse
and the rest were self explanatory


now think if there were only 8 teams
that means there would be more teams like miami
and less like sacramento
meaning only the best of the best would play

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I got respect for Kareem, Bill and Wilt, but the fact that most of us werent around during those times, hence we cant comment on Bill's and Wilt's success is really a silly justification to Kareem's perspective.

I wasnt around during those times but Ive seen a shit load of games from that era. Theres no way I or anyone else can look at Bill's and Wilt's career and the type of players that they faced and say they had a tougher road to success than MJ.


You all are cosigning Kareem, but imo he's really not trying to give props or acknowledge to accomplishments of the great Bill and Wilt...he's basically trying to discredit MJ accomplishments by pointing out reasons why other players are better than MJ.

Just like I can say that Babe Ruth wasnt the truth mainly because some of that best baseball players during that era were in the Negro leagues...i can also say Bill and Wilt werent the greatest ever...but just the greatest of their time due to the talent that they faced.

You all can type about the watering down of the NBA all yall want...but IMO if Jordan wouldve played during that era he wouldve still dominated, mainly because he was a EXTREMELY competitive Man that was willing to conform so he could own/shit all over his opponents. If Wilt and Bill wouldve played during Jordans era i.e. when Big Men dominated..hence one of the reasons why MJ worked on his Jumper....those 2 wouldnt get the stats or rings that they got back when they were playing in a mostly European league that had barely evolved into something great..

this isn't about jordan
its been accepted and nobody said anything about jordan in here. he's the man period.
the argument was whether or not wilt, kareem and bill would be good in today's nba
and the answer is yes
because simply who would stop them?
nobody.


and you're off base about wilt and bill playing in the early jordan era
what you don't understand is that the big men that you speak of that are so tough....were birthed from wilt and bill
they made them
they are the prototypes
they can play in any era, and i explained why already
and yes they would have gotten rings, if they still had the talent to go with their skills.

nobody can do it by themselves, they had help but to say they wouldn't win....
lmao
put bill from the 50's celtics on the 80's celtics
how many rings could they have won with him??

put wilt on the lakers this year... who beats them?

 

[Chitownheadbusa]

this isn't about jordan
its been accepted and nobody said anything about jordan in here. he's the man period.
the argument was whether or not wilt, kareem and bill would be good in today's nba
and the answer is yes

oh ok..thxs for updating me....cause i was about to go crazy typing multiple post defending Jordan....lol

Saying that Bill and Wilt would own in todays NBA is a easy argument. I dont know if yall addressed this ..but would they have owned in the 80's and early 90's when big Men were BIG and dominated the paint area more than they do today?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

oh ok..thxs for updating me....cause i was about to go crazy typing multiple post defending Jordan....lol

Saying that Bill and Wilt would own in todays NBA is a easy argument. I dont know if yall addressed this ..but would they have owned in the 80's and early 90's when big Men were BIG and dominated the paint area more than they do today?

wilt and bill begat the big men you speak of
wilt wouldn't be any shorter
and russell wouldn't be any less skilled
the thing that i think is lost and what's most important is that fundamentals transcend ANY ERA
when you have fundamentals PLUS immense talent (drive will determination athleticism) how could they have been topped?
give me a prime wilt, a mad wilt that's been reading everyone saying he couldn't do it...and watch me go win everything
and watch him dominate everyone while he does it

 

[Costanza]

man do you guys not get it? there are 30 teams now
and realistically 4 or 5 teams had a legit shot to win the championship
3 more had an outside dark horse chance to get there
That's 8 teams...
the other 22 were just playing to collect checks


before the season began

in the east
Atlanta, Cleveland, New York, Philadelphia, Indiana, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Detroit, New Jersey, Washington and Toronto had absolutely ZERO CHANCE TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
and you were fooling yourself and in denial if you thought they did.
the only people who believed any of these teams could win it all, were fans of said team.
any objective fan knew before game 1 they were not going to do it.

in the west
Denver, portland, minnesota, utah, clippers, suns, kings, rockets, and hornets had no chance to win it

grizzlies became the dark horse
and the rest were self explanatory


now think if there were only 8 teams
that means there would be more teams like miami
and less like sacramento
meaning only the best of the best would play

I think you're proving my point...

Using your math, 66% of teams have no chance.

Make Bill Russell the #1 pick in any of the last three drafts.

Does he sniff eight championships playing out his career on one team, as he did with the Celtics?

LeBron's greatness is self-evident and transcends championships. I'll take that fourth quarter against Detroit over Chauncy Billups Finals MVP trophy any day. I think if you stick Wilt Chamberlain in Blake Griffen's position, he'd still be a monster. Jabber certainly, too. Russell? I don't know what the result is but he'd NEVER live up to the mystique-- or hype, really-- that owes to that particular team in that exact era. You put him in Blake Griffen's position or any that fits under this hypothetical and the mythology just crumbles. He couldn't replicate that sucess in 2003-2010 Cleveland but LeBron was on track to be an all-time great in Cleveland.

Or did he just get that much better in the last year because he puts on the same jersey as D'wayne Wade now?

 

[smokeon2006]

i also don't acknowledge dudes who don't have a statue.

So Kareem lectures Pippen with "the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics," and then SIGNS his own letter with "NBA's All-Time Leading Scorer" rather than 6-time NBA champion.

As usual, Kareem is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[TJervey]

Great points about Wilt but this part is just bullshit... Everybody talks about how in an eight-team league the teams were more stacked but what about the corollary-- Is it easier to win as 1 of 8 teams or 1 of 30 competitors?

Can't count all 30 to make your point. Only what, 16 teams make the playoffs, and that is just to stack the playoff format. This season was an novelty, very rarely are teams 11-16 very good so the comparison is more like 8 vs. 10 teams...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

If he did it against Reed and Russell; he would have did it against Ewind and Dream. I don't think you take into consideration that Wilt rarely had to play up to his full potential. Could you imagine scoring 100 points while on cruise control. They also didn't have the technologies of the 90's; such as sports medicine and film study. Take the stats on face value, or take the time to fully calculate the all factors that play into the strengths and weaknesses between era's.

Then we agree.

Damn Blunt. He was actually supporting your argument.

Can't help himself.

 

[FJP]

Funny thing is dudes keep saying Wilt would win it all..but even with those stats Wilt didn't win much at all.

 

[cranrab]

You got small forwards who are 6'10 now and you have 7'0 power forwards.

did any of them lead the NBA in assists?

 

[cranrab]

why are people getting sidetracked on science producing better athletes, diet supplements, shoes and all that nonsense?

fact is, wilt chamberlain was a better athlete then, than any player currently is in the NBA.

update this thread when dwight howard can snatch money off the top of the backboard.

and that video claiming "tall tales"? absurd. the 50" is a documented measurement of wilt chamberlain's standing vertical. though that may have not been the norm, he was getting WAY more lift than today's best leapers.

how many players were dunking on 12' rims in college?

 

[catalina74]

he makes a good point. but. wilt ass wouldnt average 30ppg today. but jordan would avaerage 60+ if he played back then. if wilt had to play against other 7 footers like akeem the dream, big shaq and others he wouldnt have scored 100. there were only like 2 7 footers. him and fuckin bill russell and bill won more championships. so good point kareem

 

[The Specialist]

Pip mad he got a bust and not a statue, lol. Bust look like the head from the Wiz.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

You would serve him food and drink and hope he tips well but thats about it.

I would cross him like iverson did Jordan.

Hit en wit those taps.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

he makes a good point. but. wilt ass wouldnt average 30ppg today. but jordan would avaerage 60+ if he played back then. if wilt had to play against other 7 footers like akeem the dream, big shaq and others he wouldnt have scored 100. there were only like 2 7 footers. him and fuckin bill russell and bill won more championships. so good point kareem

so wilt wouldn't average 30? against hakeem shaq and them? he couldn't get 30 a night?


kareem obviously would get 30 since he has the only unstoppable shot in the history of the nba... deny that one and i don't know what to tell you

 

[Blunt]

Funny thing is dudes keep saying Wilt would win it all..but even with those stats Wilt didn't win much at all.

He had the misfortune of playing in the same era as Russell, the greatest winner in the history of sport.

But even with that, he still anchored two of the Top 5 greatest, single-season, NBA teams in history.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

why are people getting sidetracked on science producing better athletes, diet supplements, shoes and all that nonsense?

fact is, wilt chamberlain was a better athlete then, than any player currently is in the NBA.

update this thread when dwight howard can snatch money off the top of the backboard.

and that video claiming "tall tales"? absurd. the 50" is a documented measurement of wilt chamberlain's standing vertical. though that may have not been the norm, he was getting WAY more lift than today's best leapers.

how many players were dunking on 12' rims in college?

my point with the supplements and shit is that its not natural. wilt with everything that you said was all natural. so if these kids are taking this stuff there is a REASON they're as big and strong as they are now. and if you take someone with the natural gifts...and give them this edge as well then they'd be just as strong.


but i don't see how anyone can't say that wilt kareem and bill wouldn't get theirs in any era

like i said fundamentals rule in any era PERIOD

 

[Philli]

Chris Broussard on ESPN First Take said today that back in Wilt's most dominant days 1959 -1966, the NBA only allowed a few black players to be on each team and a lot of the good players where relegated to playing at the Rucker because they were not yet allowed to play in the NBA.