Good effort but you forget about context. The thread is about whether Obama learned from Bush's policies. The fact that he's staying the course, the poll showing Bush's rise in popularity and democratic elections in the Middle East all support that. The stuff about Iran is totally out of context to the topic.
Dick Cheney: Obama Has Learned That Bush Policies Were Right
- Thread starter Lamarr
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Good effort but you forget about context. The thread is about whether Obama learned from Bush's policies. The fact that he's staying the course, the poll showing Bush's rise in popularity and democratic elections in the Middle East all support that. The stuff about Iran is totally out of context to the topic.
If you say Bush's policies were good policy, I'm pointing out the consequences of said policy, so I'm very much in context.
He's not staying the course set out by Bush, as I said before, he's going by what he promised as a candidate.
Where are these polls? Still waiting. Bush's personal approval polls have risen, like all former President's do, but I've seen nothing that suggest people think invading Afghanistan and Iraq were good ideas, particularly Iraq.
There were democratic elections before we invaded Iraq. Saudi Arabia, an "ally", is still a dictatorship. There have been elections in Iraq that have strengthen the hold of Iran in the region by bringing in Al-Sadr and there's the corrupt, shady elections in Afghanistan. Were these "elections" worth so much American blood and money?
Just because you say your reply is in context don't mean it is. It's not about what you think. There's nothing in this thread that asks for your interpretation of the consequences. Is Obama learning from Bush yes or no and if no why not. It would seem that you and the people you are collaborating with on these last 2 replies would know that. But if you ask if I think it's been worth the cost in lives and treasure the answer imo is no.
Okay and just because you say it's not, doesn't mean it's not. If we're going to talk about policy, it's a very superficial conversation if you don't talk about the consequences of said policy. The question of if Obama is learning from Bush was answered and I gave the "Why not?". You just didn't like the answer.
but.........but.........but, Is that "CHANGE"?
House Overwhelmingly Approves New $725 Billion Military Spending Bill
I could see a very proud Dick Cheney reading about the 'lameduck' House Dems supporting the largest military spending bill in history...............even larger than "W"
To be honest the way the question is framed in a way where there's only two answers yes or no but the situation is much more complex. Obama is carrying on Bush's policies whether he's actually learned anything is another question and the consequences don't look very good for America because the wars have basically bankrupted us. We could leave the region much worst than it was before the invasion, democracy might not work and terrorism could become much worst especially if you include whats going on in Mexico as part of the 'war on terror'.
Hell no that's not "change" but this happened in the House. I've always said Democrats in Congress are almost as much enemies to Obama as Republicans.
Notice how it includes a ban on closing Gitmo. It's hard to shut down a facility when the other equal branch of government is against you.
why does anyone care what dick cheney has to say? he ain't sheit. not even in a position of power anymore. just a hating azz with a fuked up psyche
This is an even more peculiar line considering the civil unrest in Egypt and Yemen is against American-backed strongmen leaders.
Ouch!
I don't see why it's peculiar this was going to happen it will be interesting to see how far this goes if it spreads to Saudi, China, North Korea.
One thing you must take note of; As UpgradeDave said, civil uprisings in Yemen & Egypt (also Tunisia) are revolts against American-backed leaders (Repubs & Dems)! What that should tell you is that The US cannot go around the world imposing democracy at the barrel of a gun. There will be "Blowback"!
Precisely why I support a non-interventionist foreign policy.
Can we bring our troops home already cause the Mid-East is a powder keg?
And it tells me that the US does NOT go around spreading democracy at all or at least not when it's not in our best perceived interests.
Haven't read Biden's statement yet, huh?
They're laying back and waiting to see how it unfolds, as they should.
I don't see any of those countries having free elections any time soon.
China has figured out that the idea that democracy and capitalism go hand in hand is a lie. The spirit of Tiananmen Square is nearly dead. They give their people toys and money and they don't bother them for "freedom".
Haven't read Biden's statement yet, huh?
They're laying back and waiting to see how it unfolds, as they should.
You really should pay more attention to the facts I mean really.
You do know thats just your opinion right. You don't want me to start posting facts up in this mofo do you.
Haven't read Biden's statement yet, huh?
They're laying back and waiting to see how it unfolds, as they should.
I agree, as they should.
I am a firm believer that you don't take sharp turns against old relationships (friends, hoes, governmental and business), that have worked -- simply because the winds are shifting. When the time comes to tack in a different direction, you find a way to do that, carefully and tactfully, lest the new suitor, if there be one, will not forget that you will leave or forego it too, as the wind blows.
Said differently, I've always kept a remembering eye on a chick I've pulled from someone else. If she'll sleep with me in the transition; she'll sleep with another as she transitions, again. LOL.
QueEx
You didn't post anything counter to what I said. Talking about what you might do and doing something are two different things.
No where in what you posted did it say they were siding with the protestors. What it says is what the President has already said in that he's always encouraged Mubarek to institute reforms.
I do know that's my opinion but it's one based on real life events, otherwise known as an "educated opinion".
I do want you to start posting facts. Try something different. Switch up your game.
Precisely. It doesn't look like Mubarek's going anywhere so it would be a bad move to openly push him to the side right now.
You said that Obama was laying back and waiting to see how things unfolds when in fact Obama is saying he will with-hold over 1 billion in aid if Egypt doesn't reform how is that not counter to what you said lol. And please don't give a hypothetical about what a woman you pulled might do in transition just stick to the facts.
What does he mean by "reform"? Does that mean Mubarek's resignation? Reforming the entire political structure of Egypt (which would mean Mubarek's resignation)? It was left purposely vague. How don't you see that?
Even in your post it notes Gibbs unusual hesitancy to nail anything down and it never says the administration is taking the side of protestors.
The answer is always "no" if the request is "dumb down your answer so I can understand it".
Everything you or I say is going to be a "hypothetical" until it plays out. Trying eliminate that would make messageboards around the world go very quiet.
You are smart right and refuse to dumb down so defining 'reform' and 'hypothetical' is no problem for you is it you know what they mean. You seem to just have problems with facts that conflict with your opinions and hypotheticals.
I can define both fine but I question what they mean to the Obama Administration in Egypt.
Still waiting for those facts that conflict with my opinion.
C'mon Bro,
Taking affirmative action is not threatening to withhold aid; it would be withholding aid, in fact.
Threatening to withhold is tantamount to taking a wait and see. That is, if you don't do "X", (and I am waiting to see what you do), I will consider doing "Y" -- in this instance, "Y" being withholding aid.
QueEx
Taking affirmative action is not threatening to withhold aid; it would be withholding aid, in fact.
Threatening to withhold is tantamount to taking a wait and see. That is, if you don't do "X", (and I am waiting to see what you do), I will consider doing "Y" -- in this instance, "Y" being withholding aid.
QueEx
You know we got on this because you said Obama was siding with the protesters, right? We still haven't seen that develop. In fact he's been doing what I said he would do. He made a slight turn after my original post but not enough to invalidate what I said.
That's what I'm saying. I'm always amazed at how little people expect from their elected officials. Just throw people some crumbs and they fall in line.
This started with me saying history will be kind to Bush if his policies bring democracy to the Middle East. You said history has already judged him as a failure. The next day revolts broke out in Egypt and since then you have been putting your spin on the facts and events. The question is has Obama learned anything from Bush's Middle East policies. If he has there could be democracy throughout the Middle East, if he hasn't Mubarak and the other dictators will remain in power.
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