Thats not true. Immediate family can still deal with you on what ever level they like. And Jehovah's witnesses do NOT believe in hell.
Any former jehovah witnesses on this board?
- Thread starter NinjaspiT
- Start date
Thats not true. Immediate family can still deal with you on what ever level they like. And Jehovah's witnesses do NOT believe in hell.
I went to the hall when I was little with a couple family members and it was ok. I never got baptized or went door to door but the shit got old as i grew wiser.
I don't believe in ANY religion now because there hasn't been sufficient proof of "God".
But, especially the JWs. If I need a blood transfusion in order to survive an accident or a major surgery, then I will take the blood. Fuck all the dumb Shit!
When a religion tells u to refuse blood and just die and trust that there is "something else" magically waiting for you in another life, no thanks. That's a cult to me.
I don't believe in ANY religion now because there hasn't been sufficient proof of "God".
But, especially the JWs. If I need a blood transfusion in order to survive an accident or a major surgery, then I will take the blood. Fuck all the dumb Shit!
When a religion tells u to refuse blood and just die and trust that there is "something else" magically waiting for you in another life, no thanks. That's a cult to me.
I was a Witness for 13 years never disfellowshipped i just left
I did get in trouble for messing around with a sister i was dating
they took away my ministerial duties for about 6 months
I have been a
part of many religions from Baptist to Jehovahs
witness I am no longer a part of organized religion I
believe in God and i believe everything in the Bible
is and will come to pass. But religion today is full
of backstabbers and hypocrites.Though there are some
sincere people within the different religions
I did get in trouble for messing around with a sister i was dating
they took away my ministerial duties for about 6 months
I have been a
part of many religions from Baptist to Jehovahs
witness I am no longer a part of organized religion I
believe in God and i believe everything in the Bible
is and will come to pass. But religion today is full
of backstabbers and hypocrites.Though there are some
sincere people within the different religions
From Baptist to JW is only one religion and if you believe in the Bible you are Christian.
My peoples were a part of the early adapters, and my moms got was involved got out, then strangely enough introduced me to it @ age 12. Like someone else said, some of the nicest folk I met, their dogma don't jive with my outlook on life as an adult...I will refrain from maligning them, just not my thing anymore. Then again, most of the organized stuff out here be having folks gone...I guess I'm too much of an iconoclast to succumb to myrmidon behaviors @ this stage. I have a very good relationship with my creator.
I really can't believe I'm writing this....
I been on this board since maybe 96-97. I rarely post though....but I am always surprised to see so many Ex JW's on a porn forum. Just goes to show we just like everyone else....no mater how you was raised or what your upbringings are.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are no more a cult that any other religion. Anyone who says they are are highly misinformed. I would say any mega-church like Eddie Long or T.D Jakes is much more 'cult' than JW. Same can be said of Mormons. There is nothing that JW do that is so far away from mainstream even quantify it as being a cult. All donations are 100% voluntary and the money is well documented in terms of where it goes. JW are not the only religion that practices preaching from door to door. Nor are they the only 'christian' faith denounces the trinity. I won't sit here and say JW are mainstream, but they are far from a cult. They are strict yes, but most of Christianity is (when practiced at a 0% tolerance for error).
Someone was surprised when the topic of JW and publishing company was mentioned. JW was founded as incorporated publishing company. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. It is that legal entity that is the main distribution point for almost everything. Again, most mega churches have incorporated business entities that represent them. Eddie Long has one that I know of. TD Jakes has several I'm sure. If the Catholic Church can have its own solvency and state in Europe, then the idea of JW having their own publishing company is hardly obscure. An organized religion with millions of members in nearly every country on earth would obviously have some kind of corporate structure to it. It's really not that crazy.
JW Kingdom Halls do not have windows purely for safety reasons. Unlike most churches, there are no admin offices inside a Kingdom Hall. There are no kitchens. There are no gymnasiums. They are not community centers like a typical 'black church'. There are no reserved parking spaces for 'pastor, bishop, etc'.
As far as disfellowshiping goes, again they are not the only faith to exercise the practice. They are probably the most well known for doing it however. Catholicism has excommunication. Heck, the rise of Protestants is a directly after-effect of Marthin Luthor being excommunicated....and that is where the black church comes from. Probably the most famous 'disfellowshiping' in history! LOL
It is my personal belief that the religious faith of the JW is probably one if not the only purest forms of Christianity in practice today. Having been born and raised in the faith, and having observed the black church sans my inactivity, I can say that I really haven't come across any part of the doctrine that I believe isn't true. There are some aspects I still have questions about....but nothing that I believe is wrong. I walked away because of the political BS that goes on. Too many double standards, too much hypocrisy. Too much nonsense. But the faith itself....I would say I still keep. I rarely mention it to my friends, because I can't really say I am an "EX" JW and I don't feel like trying to explain what being inactive is. I guess I'm on an indefinite sabbatical. LOL.
I been on this board since maybe 96-97. I rarely post though....but I am always surprised to see so many Ex JW's on a porn forum. Just goes to show we just like everyone else....no mater how you was raised or what your upbringings are.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are no more a cult that any other religion. Anyone who says they are are highly misinformed. I would say any mega-church like Eddie Long or T.D Jakes is much more 'cult' than JW. Same can be said of Mormons. There is nothing that JW do that is so far away from mainstream even quantify it as being a cult. All donations are 100% voluntary and the money is well documented in terms of where it goes. JW are not the only religion that practices preaching from door to door. Nor are they the only 'christian' faith denounces the trinity. I won't sit here and say JW are mainstream, but they are far from a cult. They are strict yes, but most of Christianity is (when practiced at a 0% tolerance for error).
Someone was surprised when the topic of JW and publishing company was mentioned. JW was founded as incorporated publishing company. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. It is that legal entity that is the main distribution point for almost everything. Again, most mega churches have incorporated business entities that represent them. Eddie Long has one that I know of. TD Jakes has several I'm sure. If the Catholic Church can have its own solvency and state in Europe, then the idea of JW having their own publishing company is hardly obscure. An organized religion with millions of members in nearly every country on earth would obviously have some kind of corporate structure to it. It's really not that crazy.
JW Kingdom Halls do not have windows purely for safety reasons. Unlike most churches, there are no admin offices inside a Kingdom Hall. There are no kitchens. There are no gymnasiums. They are not community centers like a typical 'black church'. There are no reserved parking spaces for 'pastor, bishop, etc'.
As far as disfellowshiping goes, again they are not the only faith to exercise the practice. They are probably the most well known for doing it however. Catholicism has excommunication. Heck, the rise of Protestants is a directly after-effect of Marthin Luthor being excommunicated....and that is where the black church comes from. Probably the most famous 'disfellowshiping' in history! LOL
It is my personal belief that the religious faith of the JW is probably one if not the only purest forms of Christianity in practice today. Having been born and raised in the faith, and having observed the black church sans my inactivity, I can say that I really haven't come across any part of the doctrine that I believe isn't true. There are some aspects I still have questions about....but nothing that I believe is wrong. I walked away because of the political BS that goes on. Too many double standards, too much hypocrisy. Too much nonsense. But the faith itself....I would say I still keep. I rarely mention it to my friends, because I can't really say I am an "EX" JW and I don't feel like trying to explain what being inactive is. I guess I'm on an indefinite sabbatical. LOL.
suppertime303
Banned
You guys making jokes but it IS the Truth. You guys making jokes but have no inclination of what facts are behind it. Never had someone try to educate you on the bible or nothing. Please dont make any negative comments unless you was actually going to the hall or assemblies. I was rasied in the truth and will go back when i get myself together. The world (satan) knows how to get humans away from the truth and will use every weakness to assure everyone dies.
The Original Poster was paranoid cause he knows armeggdon is coming. So anytime he heard of a natural disaster he thought the final tribulation is here which is understandable but probally was feeling that cause he wasnt doing right, therefore he was fearing what he knew was coming and he knows the outcome.
All this talk about robbing children of there childhood is nonsense. Jehovah made the world and he is a fair and just god. He has the right to determine how his children live and serve him. You guys are funny thinking you were brought into this world and now its the way you want it to go . GET the fuck outta here. Thats why the world is where its at now
99% percent of the people here have never even stepped into a kindom hall let alone know the scriptures.
The Original Poster was paranoid cause he knows armeggdon is coming. So anytime he heard of a natural disaster he thought the final tribulation is here which is understandable but probally was feeling that cause he wasnt doing right, therefore he was fearing what he knew was coming and he knows the outcome.
All this talk about robbing children of there childhood is nonsense. Jehovah made the world and he is a fair and just god. He has the right to determine how his children live and serve him. You guys are funny thinking you were brought into this world and now its the way you want it to go . GET the fuck outta here. Thats why the world is where its at now
99% percent of the people here have never even stepped into a kindom hall let alone know the scriptures.
what about the "no blood" stuff?
they want you to REFUSE any foreign blood to be put into you body.
so if you lose 2 pints of blood on the way to the hospital, the JWs says don't accept a transfusion.
so, you're just supposed to die and have faith that you will be resurrected in some paradise kingdom .
if that ain't some cult shit, then i don't know what is.
Roadrage u stoopid...
And no I never witnessed jerhover. Its funny there whole push for the name of god being jehovah is basically a strawman argumen set up by rutherford.
By pushing jehovah they relegate jesus to a secondary position and slide their authority alongside him. Also by pushing jehovah that keeps the old testament open with all of its rules and regulations.
If one truly belives in jesus there is no need for any other rules or explanations.
And no I never witnessed jerhover. Its funny there whole push for the name of god being jehovah is basically a strawman argumen set up by rutherford.
By pushing jehovah they relegate jesus to a secondary position and slide their authority alongside him. Also by pushing jehovah that keeps the old testament open with all of its rules and regulations.
If one truly belives in jesus there is no need for any other rules or explanations.
suppertime303
Banned
Yes have faith you will be resurrected. The life we live on earth is not the END GAME. Everlasting life is. Who gives a flying fuck about the 90 years you live here when you have the oppurtunity to live forever. YOU BELIEVE IN ADAM AND EVE RIGHT even though you dont follow jehovah witness right? So you do know human were made to live FOREEVER RIGHT?? Its his will he made you nigga lol .....
NuRe: Any former jehovah witnesses on this board?i
That's the kind of misguided thinking that keeps people enslaved to religion. You are willing to sacrifice the joys and pleasure of this world you know for a fantasy that may come.
Just to set the record straight I don't believe in god. I find my belief that I am a sith lord more satisfying than anything I have read or learned from religion or the bible.
When I was a jw I belived and was zealos. I served at bethel and talked to the ones who decide the direction the organization goes...and they are some nutters!
That's the kind of misguided thinking that keeps people enslaved to religion. You are willing to sacrifice the joys and pleasure of this world you know for a fantasy that may come.
Just to set the record straight I don't believe in god. I find my belief that I am a sith lord more satisfying than anything I have read or learned from religion or the bible.
When I was a jw I belived and was zealos. I served at bethel and talked to the ones who decide the direction the organization goes...and they are some nutters!
suppertime303
Banned
wait??? How the hell do you know believe in God???? LOL i might have to create a topic on this lol
Like I said I did grow up believing what I was taught. Now if you think back to youir days at the hall one thing that JW's do is DESTROY other peoples beliefs. All the meeting and books serve to tear down other peoples religious beliefs and build up theirs.
You have the reasoning book that helps you refute any argument someone may throw at you in field service. Once again this goes back to rutherford he was the new religious kid on the block so he attacked the big dog of the time the catholic church.
Now because witnesses teach you to destroy other peoples beliefs that leaves you in a quandry when you leave. JW's have a saying for those in that may question the 'truth'...'were will you go?'
See how nice a package they put you in? They destroy your religious belief and give you theirs, if over time you see the flaws in their system where else can you go? You KNOW that all the other religions are BS because you have spent years being told that they are worshiping satan.
So when I was done with JW's and looked at the bible unto itself I saw the flaws and holes in it and realized that it is nothing more than a book of jewish history and a glorified self help book.
You have the reasoning book that helps you refute any argument someone may throw at you in field service. Once again this goes back to rutherford he was the new religious kid on the block so he attacked the big dog of the time the catholic church.
Now because witnesses teach you to destroy other peoples beliefs that leaves you in a quandry when you leave. JW's have a saying for those in that may question the 'truth'...'were will you go?'
See how nice a package they put you in? They destroy your religious belief and give you theirs, if over time you see the flaws in their system where else can you go? You KNOW that all the other religions are BS because you have spent years being told that they are worshiping satan.
So when I was done with JW's and looked at the bible unto itself I saw the flaws and holes in it and realized that it is nothing more than a book of jewish history and a glorified self help book.
This is from the elders manual I posted and an old kingdom ministry (there monthly newsletter discussed during the weekday meetings. It clearly shows how THEY expect you to deal with a DFed relative:
Here is what the Shepherding Book has to say.......(Pg 116, Ch. 10, vs 6)
(*, **, *** were added by me for quicker reference)
6. If members of the congregation are known to
have undue association with disfellowsbipped
or disassociated relatives who are not in the
household elders should counsel and reason with
those members of the congregation from the Scriptures.
Review with them information from the
"God's Love book, pages 207-208 (*); The Watchtower
of April 15 1988, pages 26-30 (**); or the article "Display
Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped"
in the August 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry(***).
If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of
the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does
not respond to counsel, it may be that he would
not qualify for congregation privileges, which require
one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially
unless there is persistent spiritual association or
he openly criticizes the disfellowshipping decision.
~thus saith the ks10~
(*)*** lv How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person ***
What if a relative is disfellowshipped? In such a case, the close bond between family members can pose a real test of loyalty. How should we treat a disfellowshipped relative? We cannot here cover every situation that may arise, but let us focus on two basic ones.
In some instances, the disfellowshipped family member may still be living in the same home as part of the immediate household. Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue. Yet, by his course, the individual has chosen to break the spiritual bond between him and his believing family. So loyal family members can no longer have spiritual fellowship with him. For example, if the disfellowshipped one is present, he would not participate when the family gets together to study the Bible. However, if the disfellowshipped one is a minor child, the parents are still responsible to instruct and discipline him. Hence, loving parents may arrange to conduct a Bible study with the child.—Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17.
In other cases, the disfellowshipped relative may be living outside the immediate family circle and home. Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum. Loyal Christian family members do not look for excuses to have dealings with a disfellowshipped relative not living at home. Rather, loyalty to Jehovah and his organization moves them to uphold the Scriptural arrangement of disfellowshipping. Their loyal course has the best interests of the wrongdoer at heart and may help him to benefit from the discipline received.—Hebrews 12:11.
[Footnotes]
Bible principles on this subject apply equally to those who disassociate themselves from the congregation.
For more information about disfellowshipped minor children living in the home, see The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17, and November 15, 1988, page 20.
For more information about how to treat disfellowshipped relatives, see the Scriptural counsel discussed in The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, pages 26-31, and September 15, 1981, pages 26-31.
(**) *** w88 4/15 p. 28 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit ***
What About Relatives?
11 God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him, ‘to clear away what is bad from the midst of Israel.’ (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer’s brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them.
12 Recall the case of Korah, a leader in rebellion against God’s leadership through Moses. In his perfect justice, Jehovah saw that Korah had to die. But all loyal ones were advised: “Turn aside, please, from before the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, that you may not be swept away in all their sin.” Relatives who would not accept God’s warning died with the rebels. But some of Korah’s relatives wisely chose to be loyal to Jehovah, which saved their lives and led to future blessings.—Numbers 16:16-33; 26:9-11; 2 Chronicles 20:19.
13 Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue.
14 The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:11.
15 Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents’ love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah’s relatives.—Psalm 84:10-12.
(***) *** km 8/02 pp. 3-4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***
Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped
1 The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.
2 How to Treat Expelled Ones: God’s Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . . . Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: “Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” Jesus’ hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.—See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.
3 This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God’s Word states that we should ‘not even eat with such a man.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.
4 What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah’s view of matters: “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.” Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: “A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?”
5 Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: “The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives.”
6 In the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: “If in a Christian’s household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activities.” Thus, it would be left up to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred.
7 However, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: “Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. . . . That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas.”
8 If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Watchtower of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: “Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God’s Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement.”—See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.
9 Relatives Not in the Household: “The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home,” states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. “It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum,” in harmony with the divine injunction to “quit mixing in company with anyone” who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.—See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.
10 The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: “What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household.”—The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.
11 As for a child, the same article continues: “Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9.”
12 Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible’s high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce “peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.”—Heb. 12:11.
13 After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.
14 Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah’s blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: “As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty.”—2 Sam. 22:23, 26.
[Study Questions]
1. What situation can test a Christian’s loyalty?
2. According to the Bible, how are Christians to treat those expelled from the congregation?
3, 4. What sort of fellowship with disfellowshipped and disassociated people is forbidden?
5. When disfellowshipped, what does a person forfeit?
6. Is a Christian required to cut off all association with a disfellowshipped relative living in the same household? Explain.
7. How does spiritual fellowship within the home change when a family member is disfellowshipped?
8. What responsibility do Christian parents have toward a minor disfellowshipped child living in the home?
9. To what extent should a Christian have contact with a disfellowshipped relative living outside the home?
10, 11. What will a Christian consider before allowing a disfellowshipped relative to move into the home?
12. What are some benefits of the disfellowshipping arrangement?
13. What adjustment did one family make, and with what result?
14. Why should we loyally support the disfellowshipping arrangement?
suppertime303
Banned
Everything we learns derived from the bible so anything you a taught you would wants spirtual backing. And that is giving to you and you can determine how you feel about but you can't dispute where the information is coming from. Just for the simple fact you don't believe in god is enough for me not to even have this conversation. How do the human race to be? And the universe? You can enlighten me i am listening and not to be sarcastic
suppertime303
Banned
See here is the main problem frosty. You have a sense of entitlement and that is the main difference. Lets say in this situation and for sake of discussion . Since god made us that he knows that talking with someone who is disfellowshipped hinders the person and the family member who is associating with him in the long run. Who are you to say that he's wrong. The same thing your are protesting is the same thing satan did at the garden. He testing god right to rule. You in a sense are doing the same thing You are saying you have a better way. But hhis conversation between you and me is mute. You don't even believe in god lol or better yet a creator
Everything you said hit me dead on. I left long before I was disfellowshipped. The beliefs themselves I can't deny being the truth, the issue of needing to feel more accepted by them was like living in a family without getting hugs. It was like a certain coldness. I don't want to put my daughter through that but I do want her to know the truth.
I was in the same boat as you bruh, only difference was by the time I was 14-15 I had been paying bills at my folks house since I was 11, and I mean whole $400 electric bills PLUS bringing home the groceries every week, so when I up and decided that I didn't want to go to the kingdom hall no more because I didn't believe any of that stuff, there wasn't anything anybody could say because I was the man of the house.
Find your own truth, do your own research, and live righteous. You'll be fine.
Find your own truth, do your own research, and live righteous. You'll be fine.
what about the "no blood" stuff?
they want you to REFUSE any foreign blood to be put into you body.
so if you lose 2 pints of blood on the way to the hospital, the JWs says don't accept a transfusion.
so, you're just supposed to die and have faith that you will be resurrected in some paradise kingdom .
if that ain't some cult shit, then i don't know what is.
You are quite miss informed. JW's believe that blood is sacred and the doctrine of the faith says they should abstain from blood' in all forms. This strict interpretation of the bibles various stricture regarding blood has lots of criticism.
However, what your not thinking about is medical practice is just that....practice. Medical arts are indeed arts. Overtime, this art is subject to change, as we improve the science used to practice the art, and as we become more aware of how the body works.
If you are an adult of say 27 years or older, you probably remember a time when doctors would prescribe antibiotics for almost everything. Remember back in the day people would assume that a stubborn cold was an infection, and would go get a doc's prescription for antibiotics just because they had a cold? Well, as the years went on, the medical community began to realize that antibiotics don't help viruses, and that needless prescribing antibiotics was hurting patients more than helping them. In some cases, people began to build up resistances to antibiotics because Docs were prescribing them too much. As a result, docs stopped needlessly prescribing antibiotics to patients. They just weren't needed as much as they thought they were.
The same can be said of blood. It has become common practice for doctors to automatically put patients on blood in some cases. To give transfusions without even thinking about if it was even necessary. Did you know there are hospitals that can perform organ transplants and other surgeries WITHOUT the need of a transfusion? Even open heart surgery is possible without using a transfusion. This supports the argument that there are alternatives that can work to supplant the need for transfusions. I won't sit here and say that ALL transfusions are now obsolete an un-needed. And there are PLENTY of JW's who have violated this doctrine and received blood. But there are also PLENTY of JW who have died from refusing to take blood. SO I won't say there is no risk. There are also probably a lot of JW who died before a lot of these advances in bloodless medicine have been discovered. In many cases they probably wouldn't die now. It is a personal decision.
Just because the view is to abstain from blood does not make the religion a cult!!! In fact, there are many non faith reasons for people to question the need for blood. As I stated before, often times its a practice to use blood when it isn't even needed. Second, HIV/AIDs screens and other disease screens aren't 100% accurate, and there have been cases when people got infected with a diseases due to a blood transfusion.
Really when you think about it, you can thank JW's for being so stubborn on the issue that the Medical community began to change their practices and now their are alternatives. The world community as a whole now as options they can exercise when their wouldn't be. It's not a bad thing at all. You should really research the subject more before you just decry 'cult' because JWs' dont take blood.
Rutherford did not invent the word 'Jehovah'. I don't see how you can even argue that. In the mid to late 1800's, most bible scholars and theologians regarded the name Jehovah to be an accurate spelling/translation of the: YHWH found in the old testimate refering to God name. Heck, Rutherford didn't write the Kings James version, and the same name is also found there. You ever watch Indiana Jones and the Last crusade? GO watch that movie and you will see the same name mentioned. In that movie, you will also here them mention that in some cases YHWH is spelled with an I instead of a J.
You do understand that Hebrew has no vowels, only constants? And as a result, translation of that text is always with a degree of guessing. Because the ancient Hebrews considered the name to be sacred, it was never uttered in common speech. And the actual pronunciation of the YHWH was lost because only the high priest was to even utter the word and then only at certain times. Taken into context that the language itself does not translate well into English because of the lack of vowels, combined with the fact that the real pronunciation was lost, and you get several interpretations of an accurate representation of YHWH in English. Hench the words Jehovah as well as Yahweh. I suggest you research the Tetragrammaton.
It is the JW belief that God's name was removed from the translations of the bible deliberately so that Jesus name can be emphasized instead. It its place, the title "God" with a capital G was used to reference God without using the name YHWH. JW reject the trinity, and make a point to emphasis the YHWH as primary deity and Jesus being his son. Again, at the time Jehovah was considered an accurate translation of YHWH, and so they took that name. Had the religion been founded today, it very well might not be called Jehovah's witnesses but perhaps Yahweh's Witnesses instead. This is because there is considerable evidence that suggest that Jehovah is probably not a very accurate translation of YHWH. The POINT however is that regardless of the translation that is used, JW's believe that YHWH is God, and his son is Jesus Christ, and that there is no "Holy Ghost" or 3rd diety as suggested in the Trinity.
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Good stuff on this topic.
I will admit I make JW mad because I go straight to the new testament and shoot down everything they try to say. I remember one of the old ones asking me how can I be so young and know that much about the bible. My reply was it isn't about me knowing the Bible..the key to the Bible is reading it and understanding it and not picking out scriptures from the old testament and trying to combine them with the new testament.
I work with some also...but we never get into the debate over GOD.
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I will admit I make JW mad because I go straight to the new testament and shoot down everything they try to say. I remember one of the old ones asking me how can I be so young and know that much about the bible. My reply was it isn't about me knowing the Bible..the key to the Bible is reading it and understanding it and not picking out scriptures from the old testament and trying to combine them with the new testament.
I work with some also...but we never get into the debate over GOD.
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I loved your response elders would be proud.
But the key is If its TRULY a matter of faith cool. But how do you view a religious organization that changes its faith policies?
I'm sure you remember that for the longest JW's could not have any form of blood. Guess what thats changed!
That chart is from one of their publications. You see how they have hedge their practice of 'faith'? Why would they go against the 'strict interpretation of the bible regarding blood' and water it down?
I'll tell you why lawsuits were eating them alive! If you are going to be a religion and have articles of faith that adherents follow, how can you change them? Its either a matter of faith and your understanding of the scripture or your BULLSHITTING The people!
This is similar to what they did with organ transfusion and alternative service (which I mentioned earlier.)
In the 60's when doctors began or were perfecting organ transplant the Governing body got together and decided that it was not appropiate for JW's. You know how they decided? Was it intense prayer? A study of the scriptures? No it was decided by a 2/3rds majority vote.
So early 60's JW couldn't get an organ transplant. In the early 70's they re-voted on this and decided it is ok for a JW to get an organ transplant?!?
So any unfortunate that needed a heart, liver kidney whatever was SOL! Imagine if you had a loved one DIE because some old men in NY voted you could not have a life saving organ transplant. And now as you can see from the chart they are doing the same thing with blood transfusions.
And I'll tell you what...even tho they CAN accept blood fraction's, there are still dubs who will say no out of simple confusion.
More info for those that care
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php
I loved your response elders would be proud.
But the key is If its TRULY a matter of faith cool. But how do you view a religious organization that changes its faith policies?
I'm sure you remember that for the longest JW's could not have any form of blood. Guess what thats changed!
That chart is from one of their publications. You see how they have hedge their practice of 'faith'? Why would they go against the 'strict interpretation of the bible regarding blood' and water it down?
I'll tell you why lawsuits were eating them alive! If you are going to be a religion and have articles of faith that adherents follow, how can you change them? Its either a matter of faith and your understanding of the scripture or your BULLSHITTING The people!
This is similar to what they did with organ transfusion and alternative service (which I mentioned earlier.)
In the 60's when doctors began or were perfecting organ transplant the Governing body got together and decided that it was not appropiate for JW's. You know how they decided? Was it intense prayer? A study of the scriptures? No it was decided by a 2/3rds majority vote.
So early 60's JW couldn't get an organ transplant. In the early 70's they re-voted on this and decided it is ok for a JW to get an organ transplant?!?
So any unfortunate that needed a heart, liver kidney whatever was SOL! Imagine if you had a loved one DIE because some old men in NY voted you could not have a life saving organ transplant. And now as you can see from the chart they are doing the same thing with blood transfusions.
And I'll tell you what...even tho they CAN accept blood fraction's, there are still dubs who will say no out of simple confusion.
More info for those that care
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php
Ha Ha Ha! Dude, do you know many times the doctrine has changed? Quite a few times. As a mater of fact, there was even a split a LONG time ago because of a change in Doctrine. On my gripes with JW is the process of how the doctrine evolves. If a common member were to suggest anything that contradicts doctrine, it is an automatic grounds for being disfelloshiped. Taking out against doctine or the governing body is automatic grounds. Only the governing body can change doctrine. And even then, it has to come down to a vote and a bunch of other weird 'policy' have to be followed. It is one of the many issues I have with the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. But I don't disagree with what they believe. There is a difference. Like hating war but supporting troops.
And for the record, I am the son of a Elder. LOL
I never said rutherford invented the name I said he made a major push for the name to be used. He came up the the name for the religion 'Jehovah's witnesses' based on a scripture in Isiah (43:10-13 I think)
If you look at the early work of the bible students (who later became JW's) they pushed christ and were looking for christ return (Russel Who founded the bible students was into pyramidology.) They thought he would return in 1876, 1900, 1905, 1914, 1925 and it goes on.
The key is once rutherford was firmly in control of the bible students he began to put his own stamp on them. He started really focusing on the preaching work and 'vindicating jehovahs name' all of this came to a head with the name change in the late 30's early 40's.
Interesting take on the whole name thing
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/159376/1/Pimping-the-Divine-Name
I can feel what you talking about
I too was raised in The Truth
I am not currently DF'ed or on Reproof though, I am considered "Inactive" (non JWs here may not get the meaning) though because I still want some contact with my family.
I'm becoming more Worldly every day, taking it one step at a time ... and loving it
Keep in mind that being in the World doesn't mean you still can't be a good person or have your own set of morals/beliefs that you don't compromise. I know we've been raised to think that outside the Truth lies a cesspool but it doesn't really have to be that way if you don't want it to.
I'm also inactive. I was heavy into the beliefs throughout most of my upbringing because of the desires of my immediate family. I got baptized at 19. I was on the right path for a few years afterward, according to what the organization considers to be the right path. Around the age of 24 I started wanting to experience other parts of life that I felt were restricted because of my beliefs. I also had a sort of falling out with my congregation when they virtually forced a good friend of mine at the time out of the congregation. There was also rampant favortism in the congregation. Some of my peers had relatives that were Elders. This seemed to give them the "right" to do as they wanted without any consequences.
Once I became inactive, I started focusing on myself. I enrolled in colleged courses, focused on my career, and eventually found my wife to be. I'm 30 now and I don't have any regrets for leaving, except for the strain that it put on my family, friends and I. While those of my family members (Mom and Aunt) who are JW's and I are still close, my decision to go a different route definitely drove a wedge between us. We don't have many good conversations anymore because we can(t get through many conversations withot JW's and my decision to leave coming up. They naturally want me to return, but the chances of that are slim to none. As for those who were friends of mine that are JW's; we no longer communicate.
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Like I said before, there have been many times JW have change their doctrine. And yes they have been many a law suit a gang of times! It could very well be that JW have 'reversed their thinking' to allow more leverage on cases like Blood and maybe even other areas.
The core of what I belief comes from being introduced to it as a child growing up in the faith, and then leaving and observing what others believe. From reading the Bible on my own, and from doing my own historical research into the History of Christianity as a whole.
It is my personal belief that most of Christianity is polluted with European paganism from Catholicism. There is no real 'pure' Christianity in the world anymore. JW recognize this fact, and attempted to weed out the pagan beliefs and try to see the faith in a pure form without any influences. I think they have been the best at accomplishing that feat. Is it perfect? No. Are there some things they believe that are taken too literally? Perhaps. Is the Org fool of BS, politics, fakers, hypocrites, etc....MOST CERTAINLY! But that is the Org, not the faith.
At the end of the day, faults and all, I think they do a pretty good job of giving me a set of beliefs that I think reflect what Christ was all about. And so I support the beliefs because of that....my own independent findings and research seem to support theirs (more or less). At least they support what JW was attempting to do, and it always seem to make more sense to me that what I observed in your typical Baptist church, or the non denominational church. So I ride with the beliefs, just not the org.
Like I said before, there have been many times JW have change their doctrine. And yes they have been many a law suit a gang of times! It could very well be that JW have 'reversed their thinking' to allow more leverage on cases like Blood and maybe even other areas.
The core of what I belief comes from being introduced to it as a child growing up in the faith, and then leaving and observing what others believe. From reading the Bible on my own, and from doing my own historical research into the History of Christianity as a whole.
It is my personal belief that most of Christianity is polluted with European paganism from Catholicism. There is no real 'pure' Christianity in the world anymore. JW recognize this fact, and attempted to weed out the pagan beliefs and try to see the faith in a pure form without any influences. I think they have been the best at accomplishing that feat. Is it perfect? No. Are there some things they believe that are taken too literally? Perhaps. Is the Org fool of BS, politics, fakers, hypocrites, etc....MOST CERTAINLY! But that is the Org, not the faith.
At the end of the day, faults and all, I think they do a pretty good job of giving me a set of beliefs that I think reflect what Christ was all about. And so I support the beliefs because of that....my own independent findings and research seem to support theirs (more or less). At least they support what JW was attempting to do, and it always seem to make more sense to me that what I observed in your typical Baptist church, or the non denominational church. So I ride with the beliefs, just not the org.
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Rutherford did indeed put his 'stamp' on the org. I think there are a lot of things in place now that prevent one person from having that much control. Also, when they booted Knorr out in the 80's, they started getting very very very tough of isolating disfellowship members. No more schisms I guess.