At The Rate He's Going Statistically - And Assuming He'll Win Multiple Rings...

[8SD8-retired_member]

You might have killed this thread.





Winning championships is always a huge issue, no matter what team he's on. It's not just a matter of who goes to his team but where other people go as well and injuries can be dealbreakers (Perkins doesn't hurt his knee, Celtics win championship this year).
I don't see LeBron and Wade being a good match at all. Wade's a good shooter but not a great one and LeBron needs a great outside shooter to open up lanes for him. The Cavs should have been or should be going hard for Ray Allen. Just putting names together isn't enough, they have to be matching parts that bring different things to the table.

I'm a Kobe Bryant fan to my heart, but that dude is about as unpredictable as they come. Pau Gasol is a quality player, but let's not act like he is a one-man wrecking crew. Everyone else on the Lakers may or may not show up. You can't count on anyone outside of Kobe and Gasol to give you anything significant night to night.

If Kobe, with all his ill-advised shots can win a ring with Gasol - someone notorious for being soft - then 'Bron and Wade can win rings.

Kobe fans, I'm not putting him down, but I doubt anyone has watched and analyzed Kobe more than I have, and that dude, more than any other player I ever seen, can shoot you into a game and out of one with the quickness.

'Bron nor Wade have that problem, nor or they soft like Gasol.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but let's say he leads a team to 5 or 4 in a row ... i think he leap frog's Kobe and is in the same sentence as Jordan as far as the media goes....

Also if kobe wins #7 ... which isn't far fetched ... does he now get in the same sentence as MJ??

Peace Les,

To answer your first question, if Lebron wins 4 or 5 in a row (TREMENDOUSLY unlikely) and continues his statistical dominance, he'll be right in the conversation with Jordan and Russ and the GOAT.

To answer your second, if Kobe wins seven, two categories of people will put him in the GOAT discussion: a) his diehard supporters and b) ESPN: The Now Network. I don't think any serious basketball fan will give a cat who's never shot for 50% in his entire career, and played Robin to Shaq's Batman for his first three rings, is going to lend Kobe that title.

 

[Spectrum]

Peace Les,

To answer your first question, if Lebron wins 4 or 5 in a row (TREMENDOUSLY unlikely) and continues his statistical dominance, he'll be right in the conversation with Jordan and Russ and the GOAT.

To answer your second, if Kobe wins seven, two categories of people will put him in the GOAT discussion: a) his diehard supporters and b) ESPN: The Now Network. I don't think any serious basketball fan will give a cat who's never shot for 50% in his entire career, and played Robin to Shaq's Batman for his first three rings, is going to lend Kobe that title.

Cosign this completely.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

he has to win 6 championships or he can't pass him on the court




it doesn't matter what he does he can't be jordan because jordan changed the game. there was nobody out there like him he was the first to capture everyone on the court and off of it. i just don't see there being that much of a demand for lebrons that they have to stop releasing them on school days because everyone will cut school to go get his shoes before they even attempt at going to school. i just don't see someone getting killed over a pair of lebrons. i just don't see lebron re-releasing shoes he's already came out with and releasing new ones almost a full decade after he's retired. i just don't see those type of things happening and he can't be jordan. jordan did everything on the court but off the court is where he stands above the rest. his impact on media will never be as big

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm a Kobe Bryant fan to my heart, but that dude is about as unpredictable as they come. Pau Gasol is a quality player, but let's not act like he is a one-man wrecking crew. Everyone else on the Lakers may or may not show up. You can't count on anyone outside of Kobe and Gasol to give you anything significant night to night.

If Kobe, with all his ill-advised shots can win a ring with Gasol - someone notorious for being soft - then 'Bron and Wade can win rings.

Kobe fans, I'm not putting him down, but I doubt anyone has watched and analyzed Kobe more than I have, and that dude, more than any other player I ever seen, can shoot you into a game and out of one with the quickness.

'Bron nor Wade have that problem, nor or they soft like Gasol.

Gasol brings a different skillset than Kobe while Wade and LeBron are very similar players and need the ball. Gasol was very soft but, like Pippen with the Knicks, he toughened up and learned to accept contact and they were better for it. Kobe needed a reliable big and got it. LeBron doesn't need a high scoring 2 but a marksman who can take the pressure off. While I just recently became an Allen fan (once he stopped being soft), he's definitely shown that he's fearless on the court and he's learned a little D (not much but a little).

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Peace Les,

To answer your first question, if Lebron wins 4 or 5 in a row (TREMENDOUSLY unlikely) and continues his statistical dominance, he'll be right in the conversation with Jordan and Russ and the GOAT.

To answer your second, if Kobe wins seven, two categories of people will put him in the GOAT discussion: a) his diehard supporters and b) ESPN: The Now Network. I don't think any serious basketball fan will give a cat who's never shot for 50% in his entire career, and played Robin to Shaq's Batman for his first three rings, is going to lend Kobe that title.

Absolutely.

 

[kmillz]

No one will ever (or for a really, really long time) be better than Mike. No matter where Bron goes he will be considered great for his time and age. He will get comparison to Mike and others, but he will never overshadow His Airness! Kobe gets comparison's but even I know there will never be another better than Mike...





























...So he might as well come on to the Chi, to get that first ring and party in these streets with the WHOLE Chi!

 

[LSN]

True Lebron ain't shit until he have ppl out there killing niggas for his shoes hahhaha!!!!!!!

he has to win 6 championships or he can't pass him on the court




it doesn't matter what he does he can't be jordan because jordan changed the game. there was nobody out there like him he was the first to capture everyone on the court and off of it. i just don't see there being that much of a demand for lebrons that they have to stop releasing them on school days because everyone will cut school to go get his shoes before they even attempt at going to school. i just don't see someone getting killed over a pair of lebrons. i just don't see lebron re-releasing shoes he's already came out with and releasing new ones almost a full decade after he's retired. i just don't see those type of things happening and he can't be jordan. jordan did everything on the court but off the court is where he stands above the rest. his impact on media will never be as big

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Pretty much what Ive been saying. The only thing that matters for Lebron is winning a title. His star cant shine any brighter until he has a ring and can be called a champion.

You're making the most sense in this thread right now.

Also, there are three contributing factors to being placed in the GOAT discussion: talent, will, and luck. Everyone can agree that Lebron has all the talent in the world. The question, at least in my mind, is that of his will and luck.

Jordan willed himself to at least three championships (Suns, Sonics and Jazz II). He wanted to destroy his opponents, not be on the same team as them. It's clear that Kobe hates the motherfuckers against whom he competes and lives to beat them. I have to question the will of Lebron, a cat who's buddy/buddy with some of his biggest competitors, and who often jiggaboos on the sideline instead of keeping his head in the game.

As far as luck, cats need to remain healthy and hope that their GMs can put the pieces together to put them in contention. At one point, Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game. Kobe hit the lottery with Gasol. Will Lebron ever be lucky enough to remain healthy AND play with a perennial all-star? Remains to be seen..

 

[Big Tex]

Jordan didn't have to sign with a team with Magic and Hakeem on it to win a ring so no.




In before salty dudes, come in. I actually like LeBron but I've never seen so much craziness go on over someone that's never won a chip before.

 

[Big Tex]

Peace,



You're making the most sense in this thread right now.

Also, there are three contributing factors to being placed in the GOAT discussion: talent, will, and luck? Everyone can agree that Lebron has all the talent in the world. The question, at least in my mind, is that of his will and luck.

Jordan willed himself to at least three championships (Suns, Sonics and Jazz II). He wanted to destroy his opponents, not be on the same team as them. It's clear that Kobe hates the motherfuckers against whom he competes and lives to beat them. I have to question the will of Lebron, a cat who's buddy/buddy with some of his biggest competitors, and who often jiggaboos on the sideline instead of keeping his head in the game.

As far as luck, cats need to remain healthy and hope that their GMs can put the pieces together to put them in contention. At one point, Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game. Kobe hit the lottery with Gasol. Will Lebron ever be lucky enough to remain healthy AND play with a perennial all-star? Remains to be seen..

Name me one year Pippen was the second best player in the league.

 

[LSN]

Ya rings or not NY or not as great as Lebron is he still has to turn it up a notch my memory of him right now is doing the Kid n Play on the sideline and lipsyncing to Drake songs while in timeouts and shit I sorry but I just could never imagine the likes of Bird Magic and Jordan doing that goofy shit even Shaq as goofy as he is off the court I don't remember him doing any of those antics during the game and that lil extra bit of hunger I'm sure could go a long way...he a cool dude but he seem to lack that killer instinct that Jordan had

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Peace,



You're making the most sense in this thread right now.

Also, there are three contributing factors to being placed in the GOAT discussion: talent, will, and luck. Everyone can agree that Lebron has all the talent in the world. The question, at least in my mind, is that of his will and luck.

Jordan willed himself to at least three championships (Suns, Sonics and Jazz II). He wanted to destroy his opponents, not be on the same team as them. It's clear that Kobe hates the motherfuckers against whom he competes and lives to beat them. I have to question the will of Lebron, a cat who's buddy/buddy with some of his biggest competitors, and who often jiggaboos on the sideline instead of keeping his head in the game.

As far as luck, cats need to remain healthy and hope that their GMs can put the pieces together to put them in contention. At one point, Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game. Kobe hit the lottery with Gasol. Will Lebron ever be lucky enough to remain healthy AND play with a perennial all-star? Remains to be seen..

exactly, takes much more than just skill all of everything you said is true. to me wake me when he wins one. that's the standard that's how i feel about anyone who is making the argument for best ever

he isnt even the most skilled player to ever play the game imo, that title doesn't even belong to jordan imo. imo the most skilled was oscar robertson...the only person to average a triple double an entire season. "if i knew getting a tripe double was a big deal i would have done it all the time"

jordan was most athletically gifted and his mind made him the best. his will and belief made less than stellar players acceptable.

jordan is goat and there isnt anyone out there that can take his place...maybe he's being born or groomed but he isnt in the nba or college or overseas yet.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Name me one year Pippen was the second best player in the league.

at cats still underrating Pip. From about 93-96, he was right up there. He played with his era's biggest ballhog (fuck it - we all know that was the case) and still put up good offensive numbers. But his real genius was on the defensive end. He may very well have been the best perimeter defender to ever play the game.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Peace,



You're making the most sense in this thread right now.

Also, there are three contributing factors to being placed in the GOAT discussion: talent, will, and luck. Everyone can agree that Lebron has all the talent in the world. The question, at least in my mind, is that of his will and luck.

Jordan willed himself to at least three championships (Suns, Sonics and Jazz II). He wanted to destroy his opponents, not be on the same team as them. It's clear that Kobe hates the motherfuckers against whom he competes and lives to beat them. I have to question the will of Lebron, a cat who's buddy/buddy with some of his biggest competitors, and who often jiggaboos on the sideline instead of keeping his head in the game.
As far as luck, cats need to remain healthy and hope that their GMs can put the pieces together to put them in contention. At one point, Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game. Kobe hit the lottery with Gasol. Will Lebron ever be lucky enough to remain healthy AND play with a perennial all-star? Remains to be seen..

I've almost never liked Michael Jordan as a pro but the one thing I've admired about him that I see lacking in a lot of elite players today is his intensity. That muhfucka wanted to demolish everybody. When Clyde Drexler said he looked at their Finals series as the Blazers vs. the Bulls but Michael looked at it as Michael vs. Clyde and that was the difference, that gave me respect for the personal way he played the game. Now these bitches out there hugging and picking each other up off the floor and dapping each other up and shit. Fuck that. The only team with real playoff mentality has been the Celtics. I've seen Rajon Rondo stay on the floor instead of letting an opponent help him up. That's the shit I like and the type of players I respect.

 

[Big Tex]

Peace,



at cats still underrating Pip. From about 93-96, he was right up there. He played with his era's biggest ballhog (fuck it - we all know that was the case) and still put up good offensive numbers. But his real genius was on the defensive end. He may very well have been the best perimeter defender to ever play the game.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good player, but he was NEVER the second best player in the game.

There was not one year Pippen was better than this dude.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Peace,



at cats still underrating Pip. From about 93-96, he was right up there. He played with his era's biggest ballhog (fuck it - we all know that was the case) and still put up good offensive numbers. But his real genius was on the defensive end. He may very well have been the best perimeter defender to ever play the game.

And the very next year with Jordan gone, he led his team to the Conference Finals and nearly the Finals.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Gasol brings a different skillset than Kobe while Wade and LeBron are very similar players and need the ball. Gasol was very soft but, like Pippen with the Knicks, he toughened up and learned to accept contact and they were better for it. Kobe needed a reliable big and got it. LeBron doesn't need a high scoring 2 but a marksman who can take the pressure off. While I just recently became an Allen fan (once he stopped being soft), he's definitely shown that he's fearless on the court and he's learned a little D (not much but a little).

Had to go back. You and eewwll are shutting this shit down right now.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm not saying he wasn't a good player, but he was NEVER the second best player in the game.

There was not one year Pippen was better than this dude.

I don't know, Tex. I'm a huge Dream fan (not the faggety singer but Hakeem) but I think Pippen was the man in 94 when he won the MVP.

 

[Spectrum]

Peace,



You're making the most sense in this thread right now.

Also, there are three contributing factors to being placed in the GOAT discussion: talent, will, and luck. Everyone can agree that Lebron has all the talent in the world. The question, at least in my mind, is that of his will and luck.

Jordan willed himself to at least three championships (Suns, Sonics and Jazz II). He wanted to destroy his opponents, not be on the same team as them. It's clear that Kobe hates the motherfuckers against whom he competes and lives to beat them. I have to question the will of Lebron, a cat who's buddy/buddy with some of his biggest competitors, and who often jiggaboos on the sideline instead of keeping his head in the game.

As far as luck, cats need to remain healthy and hope that their GMs can put the pieces together to put them in contention. At one point, Jordan and Pippen were the two best players in the game. Kobe hit the lottery with Gasol. Will Lebron ever be lucky enough to remain healthy AND play with a perennial all-star? Remains to be seen..

Yep. That last part is the most critical part. Almost every title over the last 25 years (which the exception of the 2004 Pistons and another one) were all won by team with two stars and a hall of fame coach.

So regardless of how well Lebron plays, the reality of the matter is that without a HOF coach and at last one other star, he chances of winning one title, much less multiple titles, are very slim.

His current situation (if he remains with Cleveland, and even with them bringing in Bosh) does not lead me to believe that he would win a title this year. They may be slightly better (with a couple other moves, but I would not favor them against LA or Orlando)..and we still dont know what will happen in Chicago or Miami.

I think Chicago would give him his best shot... But I dont think Rose, Bosh and Lebron just line up a win a title in their first year. They would be seriously lacking perimeters shooters and it is rare those quick made a title-team like the 2008 Celtics actually win.

I think if Lebron won ONE title over the next 3 years he will have done well for himself.

That still means he would probably need to win titles at a clip of 60-70 percent for the rest of his career to get to 5.

Lebron is a great player... it is just that the laws of averages are working heavily against him right now in terms of winning 5 or 6 titles.

The NBA is actually the easiest of the major sports to run a string a titles off....but I think this needs to go on pause until he wins one.... actually until he gets back to the Finals for the second time.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Peace,



Had to go back. You and eewwll are shutting this shit down right now.

Once you're able to put aside your own personal preferences and prejudices, somethings just make sense or don't.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Peace,



at cats still underrating Pip. From about 93-96, he was right up there. He played with his era's biggest ballhog (fuck it - we all know that was the case) and still put up good offensive numbers. But his real genius was on the defensive end. He may very well have been the best perimeter defender to ever play the game.

exactly, because they had pippen they were able to win with luc longley and bill wennington and a whole other subpar ppl. the combo of jordan and pippen won 72 games. ppl are insane

I've almost never liked Michael Jordan as a pro but the one thing I've admired about him that I see lacking in a lot of elite players today is his intensity. That muhfucka wanted to demolish everybody. When Clyde Drexler said he looked at their Finals series as the Blazers vs. the Bulls but Michael looked at it as Michael vs. Clyde and that was the difference, that gave me respect for the personal way he played the game. Now these bitches out there hugging and picking each other up off the floor and dapping each other up and shit. Fuck that. The only team with real playoff mentality has been the Celtics. I've seen Rajon Rondo stay on the floor instead of letting an opponent help him up. That's the shit I like and the type of players I respect.

and that's because all of them are around kevin garnett who once upon a time was my favorite player. he still doesnt get the credit he deserves for his mentality. he started that chalk shit that now everyone associates with lebron. HE started the if a foul is called away from the ball or play is stopped and you still shoot you swat the ball from going in because you can't see yourself making a basket. he grills you he wants to beat you more than you even want to play.


to me a lot of these cats look like they're in it cause they kinda like to play bball and there's a lot of money in it. like it bball paid janitor type money they would do something else.

lot of these dudes also seem like they don't love the game
to me somebody like jordan or kg or even kobe if their nba career never panned out and had to get a regular job doing something else you'd still see them on the courts every weekend playing pick up games acting like every one of em was for the nba championship

 

[Big Tex]

You will never again see players as focused as the player from the 80's because these young ninjas come in fresh out of high school as stars form their first game.

Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Olajuwon, had to prove that shit a couple years before they started getting serious run. And they weren't making that much paper either.

Those dudes went to college where they rode the bench and learned to play, learned to be hungry, learned you had to prove yourself.

They came into the NBA with something to prove. LeBron, Dwight Howard and these new cats are already stars and haven't won anything.

I think what makes Kobe great is the fact he had to ride that pine until he could beat out Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, etc. There were veteran pros that could put a young ninja in his place.

Hell, even LeBron's coach was scared of that nigga

LeBron needs someone to tell him he needs to work on his low post game this summer so that he can have more options to score the ball.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Yep. That last part is the most critical part. Almost every title over the last 25 years (which the exception of the 2004 Pistons and another one) were all won by team with two stars and a hall of fame coach.

So regardless of how well Lebron plays, the reality of the matter is that without a HOF coach and at last one other star, he chances of winning one title, much less multiple titles, are very slim.

His current situation (if he remains with Cleveland, and even with them bring in Bosh) does not lead me to believe that would win a title this year. They may be slightly better (with a couple other moves, but I would not favor them against LA or Orlando)..and we still dont know what will happen in Chicago or Miami.

I don't see him and Bosh winning shit but Bosh will get more endorsements since he'll be on a higher profile team and on national tv more often. That wouldn't be a great move, bringing him. I'm still loving the Ray Allen idea (which isn't getting much play).
I can see him winning with another star and not a HOF coach. Jackson wasn't a great coach when he first got to Chicago and the same with Riley in LA, they got there by winning, using great teams. If Cleveland hires a good coach with some sound x and o skills, who can fine tune LBJ's athleticism and get people to play up to their ability even in high pressure situations, they can win.

 

[Big Tex]

I don't know, Tex. I'm a huge Dream fan (not the faggety singer but Hakeem) but I think Pippen was the man in 94 when he won the MVP.

Dream won the title that year and the second best player on his team was Otis Thorpe.

Cassell was a rookie and didn't even start. Horry was in his second year and wasn't consistent at all. Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith were your starting guards.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Jordan didn't have to sign with a team with Magic and Hakeem on it to win a ring so no.




In before salty dudes, come in. I actually like LeBron but I've never seen so much craziness go on over someone that's never won a chip before.

I agree with this. It's a little sickening.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good player, but he was NEVER the second best player in the game.

There was not one year Pippen was better than this dude.

Can't argue there. Perhaps I misspoke.

I've almost never liked Michael Jordan as a pro but the one thing I've admired about him that I see lacking in a lot of elite players today is his intensity. That muhfucka wanted to demolish everybody. When Clyde Drexler said he looked at their Finals series as the Blazers vs. the Bulls but Michael looked at it as Michael vs. Clyde and that was the difference, that gave me respect for the personal way he played the game. Now these bitches out there hugging and picking each other up off the floor and dapping each other up and shit. Fuck that. The only team with real playoff mentality has been the Celtics. I've seen Rajon Rondo stay on the floor instead of letting an opponent help him up. That's the shit I like and the type of players I respect.

Never was this more on display than during the Celts/Magic series. The Celtics, TO THE MAN, didn't give a flying fuck about the Magic. I remember watching one game in which Matt Barnes knocked Rondo down and then helped him back up! Even Mark Jackson (who I usually just want to shut the fuck up) was like, "You don't do that!"

And the very next year with Jordan gone, he led his team to the Conference Finals and nearly the Finals.

This here..

 

[Big Tex]

I agree people do sleep on Pip though because he played with Jordan.

 

[Spectrum]

I've almost never liked Michael Jordan as a pro but the one thing I've admired about him that I see lacking in a lot of elite players today is his intensity. That muhfucka wanted to demolish everybody. .

He played like that EVERY game though. That is the shit that tripped me out. He didnt just get up for playoff games. I used to go to all the Pistons games back in the 80s and early 90s and Jordan played 100 percent every fucking game. Even off the ball, he was always moving..always active... dude was 100 percent intensity all the time. His mind and will power were really unparalleled...fuck the athletic ability.... this mental game and basketball IQ were superhuman...

 

[8SD8-retired_member]

I don't see him and Bosh winning shit but Bosh will get more endorsements since he'll be on a higher profile team and on national tv more often. That wouldn't be a great move, bringing him. I'm still loving the Ray Allen idea (which isn't getting much play).
I can see him winning with another star and not a HOF coach. Jackson wasn't a great coach when he first got to Chicago and the same with Riley in LA, they got there by winning, using great teams. If Cleveland hires a good coach with some sound x and o skills, who can fine tune LBJ's athleticism and get people to play up to their ability even in high pressure situations, they can win.

Dude...

...Bosh averaged 24 and 10 last year. That's five more points and one rebound less than Gasol. Toss in Lebron who statistically always outproduces Kobe...

...and ... what? Lamar is talented, but he does not show up often enough. The same goes for Ron Artest. Your talent doesn't matter if the consistency isn't there.

You put 'Bron and Bosh together with a few marksman from three, and you have a contender. 'Bron outproduces Kobe statistically and Bosh outproduces Gasol.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

and that's because all of them are around kevin garnett who once upon a time was my favorite player. he still doesnt get the credit he deserves for his mentality. he started that chalk shit that now everyone associates with lebron. HE started the if a foul is called away from the ball or play is stopped and you still shoot you swat the ball from going in because you can't see yourself making a basket. he grills you he wants to beat you more than you even want to play.

You will never again see players as focused as the player from the 80's because these young ninjas come in fresh out of high school as stars form their first game.

Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Olajuwon, had to prove that shit a couple years before they started getting serious run. And they weren't making that much paper either.

Those dudes went to college where they rode the bench and learned to play, learned to be hungry, learned you had to prove yourself.

They came into the NBA with something to prove. LeBron, Dwight Howard and these new cats are already stars and haven't won anything.

I think what makes Kobe great is the fact he had to ride that pine until he could beat out Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, etc. There were veteran pros that could put a young ninja in his place.

Hell, even LeBron's coach was scared of that nigga

LeBron needs someone to tell him he needs to work on his low post game this summer so that he can have more options to score the ball.

While I think there is some validity to your later points, I don't see what it has to do with high school players. Most of the league went to college, at least one season and some of the most intense guys are straight from high school players (Kobe, KG, Kendrick Perkins). I just think some of them are going to have to get close and get beat some more before they get it. Jordan and the Bulls won after they got smashed by the Celtics and Pistons for years. Shaq and the Lakers had to get tired of getting mollywhopped by the Spurs. Pau Gasol was a talented bitch until he got tired of the Celtics pushing him around.
Some more old school style coaches would help too. You bet'not let Larry Brown see a Bobcat bullshitting around. Same with Phil. Same with Avery Johnson. It's not a coincidence that these are all successful coaches.

 

[Big Tex]

He played like that EVERY game though. That is the shit that tripped me out. He didnt just get up for playoff games. I used to go to all the Pistons games back in the 80s and early 90s and Jordan played 100 percent every fucking game. Even off the ball, he was always moving..always active... dude was 100 percent intensity all the time. His mind and will power were really unparalleled...fuck the athletic ability.... this mental game and basketball IQ were superhuman...

This right here.

Jordan had something to prove EVERY NIGHT. He knew you set the tone from game one. I keep hearing LeBron talking about wanting to be a global icon. Dude needs to worry about being the best player he can be and the rest will follow.

 

[Blaq]

You will never again see players as focused as the player from the 80's because these young ninjas come in fresh out of high school as stars form their first game.

Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Olajuwon, had to prove that shit a couple years before they started getting serious run. And they weren't making that much paper either.

Those dudes went to college where they rode the bench and learned to play, learned to be hungry, learned you had to prove yourself.

They came into the NBA with something to prove. LeBron, Dwight Howard and these new cats are already stars and haven't won anything.

I think what makes Kobe great is the fact he had to ride that pine until he could beat out Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, etc. There were veteran pros that could put a young ninja in his place.

Hell, even LeBron's coach was scared of that nigga

LeBron needs someone to tell him he needs to work on his low post game this summer so that he can have more options to score the ball.

Co-sign

 

[Big Tex]

While I think there is some validity to your later points, I don't see what it has to do with high school players. Most of the league went to college, at least one season and some of the most intense guys are straight from high school players (Kobe, KG, Kendrick Perkins). I just think some of them are going to have to get close and get beat some more before they get it. Jordan and the Bulls won after they got smashed by the Celtics and Pistons for years. Shaq and the Lakers had to get tired of getting mollywhopped by the Spurs. Pau Gasol was a talented bitch until he got tired of the Celtics pushing him around.
Some more old school style coaches would help too. You bet'not let Larry Brown see a Bobcat bullshitting around. Same with Phil. Same with Avery Johnson. It's not a coincidence that these are all successful coaches.

Neither Kobe, KG, or Perk came in from game one as a player that was already a star from the first game. Those guys also had vets to learn from. You have to learn how to be a pro. Coming to play with the right mindset every night. Learn how to be a leader. If you team sees you goofing off during the game, they'll want to do it. Maybe you can goof off a little and pick your game up a notch at will, but the other players can't.

That's the stuff I'm talking about. These young dudes come in super rich and super famous so early that it's hard to motivate them.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Dream won the title that year and the second best player on his team was Otis Thorpe.

Cassell was a rookie and didn't even start. Horry was in his second year and wasn't consistent at all. Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith were your starting guards.

I don't know. I liked Otis Thorpe but I thought "The Jet" was the second best player on that team.
Thinking about it, that team was sort of like the Wallace-Billups-Jefferson Pistons. They just had one more real star: Hakeem.

Dude...

...Bosh averaged 24 and 10 last year. That's five more points and one rebound less than Gasol. Toss in Lebron who statistically always outproduces Kobe...

...and ... what? Lamar is talented, but he does not show up often enough. The same goes for Ron Artest. Your talent doesn't matter if the consistency isn't there.

You put 'Bron and Bosh together with a few marksman from three, and you have a contender. 'Bron outproduces Kobe statistically and Bosh outproduces Gasol.

Bosh and LeBron play too much alike and would be up under each other, similar to Pippen and Barkley going to Houston in a ring chase. All those dudes played on the same side of the court and didn't mesh at all. LBJ doesn't need another paint presence or a slasher (AI type), he needs a jumpshooter who can handle the ball and make his own shot. An outside threat opens the lane for LeBron and all the Cav bigs.

 

[Blaq]

He played like that EVERY game though. That is the shit that tripped me out. He didnt just get up for playoff games. I used to go to all the Pistons games back in the 80s and early 90s and Jordan played 100 percent every fucking game. Even off the ball, he was always moving..always active... dude was 100 percent intensity all the time. His mind and will power were really unparalleled...fuck the athletic ability.... this mental game and basketball IQ were superhuman...

Co-sign