Judge: Obama misled the public

[Gunner]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/


A federal judge in New Orleans halted President Obama's deepwater drilling moratorium on Tuesday, saying the government never justified the ban and appeared to mislead the public in the wake of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

Judge Martin L.C. Feldman issued an injunction, saying that the moratorium will hurt drilling-rig operators and suppliers and that the government has not proved an outright ban is needed, rather than a more limited moratorium.

He also said the Interior Department also misstated the opinion of the experts it consulted. Those experts from the National Academy of Engineering have said they don't support the blanket ban.

"Much to the government's discomfort and this Court's uneasiness, the summary also states that 'the recommendations contained in this report have been peer-reviewed by seven experts identified by the National Academy of Engineering.' As the plaintiffs, and the experts themselves, pointedly observe, this statement was misleading," Judge Feldman said in his 22-page ruling.

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said the administration will appeal the decision, and said Mr. Obama believes the government must figure out what went wrong with the Deepwater Horizon rig before deepwater drilling goes forward. Still, the ruling is another setback as Mr. Obama seeks to show he's in control of the 2-month-old spill.

Democrats and Republicans from the Gulf states have called on the president to end the blanket moratorium, saying it is hurting the region.

Oil company executives told Congress last week they would have to move their rigs to other countries because they lose up to $1 million a day per idle rig, and said there are opportunities elsewhere.

 

[thoughtone]

Reverend Moon owns the Washington Times

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Reverend Moon owns the Washington Times

Yeah,it's a rag. Fox News on paper.

But besides that, this is a bad decision made by a judge with oil money in his pockets (see his Financial Disclosure Report). If the oil companies want to move their rigs, let them. Let them fuck up someone else's shit for a change. We should be moving to renewable energy resources and conservation (30 years ago actually).

 

[thoughtone]

Yeah,it's a rag. Fox News on paper.

But besides that, this is a bad decision made by a judge with oil money in his pockets (see his Financial Disclosure Report). If the oil companies want to move their rigs, let them. Let them fuck up someone else's shit for a change. We should be moving to renewable energy resources and conservation (30 years ago actually).

See my thread next to this one!

 

[Gunner]

Yeah,it's a rag. Fox News on paper.

But besides that, this is a bad decision made by a judge with oil money in his pockets (see his Financial Disclosure Report). If the oil companies want to move their rigs, let them. Let them fuck up someone else's shit for a change. We should be moving to renewable energy resources and conservation (30 years ago actually).

What a follow up attack the source. Typical. You sound like most liberals. Yea it sounds good to say we should move toward renewable energy resources. The only dilema is that we are not there yet. Were way off years and years off. If what you speak to was readily available don't you think someone would have put that shit in cans and be selling it like cabbage patch dolls. I want cleaner energy but we are not there yet.

T Boone Pickins was pushing the same thing. But he jumped off that train to no where due in part that it was to expensive.
Ask yourself what is practical. Could you afford a windmill? Could the less fortunate afford a windmill? Can you afford to install solar panels on your home without government assistance? Or should we just let them eat cake. I thoughttone you guys were champions of the little guy.

 

[Gunner]

So instead of attacking the merit of my post, you want to go on a fact finding exploration of who owns the newspaper and who the judge have sex with. You guys are pathetic.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

What a follow up attack the source. Typical. You sound like most liberals. Yea it sounds good to say we should move toward renewable energy resources. The only dilema is that we are not there yet. Were way off years and years off. If what you speak to was readily available don't you think someone would have put that shit in cans and be selling it like cabbage patch dolls. I want cleaner energy but we are not there yet.

T Boone Pickins was pushing the same thing. But he jumped off that train to no where due in part that it was to expensive.
Ask yourself what is practical. Could you afford a windmill? Could the less fortunate afford a windmill? Can you afford to install solar panels on your home without government assistance? Or should we just let them eat cake. I thoughttone you guys were champions of the little guy.

Clearly we can't afford to maintain this path, Gunner and it's only going to get more expensive as we put it off.
I can't afford any of those things but if the government gave less subsidies to oil and coal companies and invested in more clean energy sources, it would make it more affordable and more profitable for companies to pursue fully.

So instead of attacking the merit of my post, you want to go on a fact finding exploration of who owns the newspaper and who the judge have sex with. You guys are pathetic.

We already know who owns the WT and I didn't mention anything about who the judge has sex with (how would that be relevent?). The article was as straight forward as the WT is going to get.

 

[Megazell]

What a follow up attack the source. Typical. You sound like most liberals. Yea it sounds good to say we should move toward renewable energy resources. The only dilema is that we are not there yet. Were way off years and years off. If what you speak to was readily available don't you think someone would have put that shit in cans and be selling it like cabbage patch dolls. I want cleaner energy but we are not there yet.

T Boone Pickins was pushing the same thing. But he jumped off that train to no where due in part that it was to expensive.
Ask yourself what is practical. Could you afford a windmill? Could the less fortunate afford a windmill? Can you afford to install solar panels on your home without government assistance? Or should we just let them eat cake. I thoughttone you guys were champions of the little guy.

Actually Solar Panels are not as expensive as they use to be and there are a ton of non-profit groups that offer assistance with installation, use and price finding. Currently my place is 42% solar. My investment so far has been under $2,000 and that was about 2.3 years ago.

http://www.solarelectricpower.org/

http://www.blackrocksolar.org/

I think the main obstacles are the laws that prevent home owners and buildings from putting them in.

PS - If anyone in NYC is interested in getting started with Solar - PM me. No I don't want your money but many of the places I know don't have a site.

 

[Gunner]

Actually Solar Panels are not as expensive as they use to be and there are a ton of non-profit groups that offer assistance with installation, use and price finding. Currently my place is 42% solar. My investment so far has been under $2,000 and that was about 2.3 years ago.

http://www.solarelectricpower.org/

http://www.blackrocksolar.org/

I think the main obstacles are the laws that prevent home owners and buildings from putting them in.

PS - If anyone in NYC is interested in getting started with Solar - PM me. No I don't want your money but many of the places I know don't have a site.

You have the means my friend. What about those who don't?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

You have the means my friend. What about those who don't?

Question asked

Actually Solar Panels are not as expensive as they use to be and there are a ton of non-profit groups that offer assistance with installation, use and price finding. Currently my place is 42% solar. My investment so far has been under $2,000 and that was about 2.3 years ago.

http://www.solarelectricpower.org/

http://www.blackrocksolar.org/

I think the main obstacles are the laws that prevent home owners and buildings from putting them in.

PS - If anyone in NYC is interested in getting started with Solar - PM me. No I don't want your money but many of the places I know don't have a site.

Question answered.

The President ran on the idea that we would invest more in alternative means. No one seriously thought we would be completely off petroleum in 4-8 years but we have to move beyond petro and coal and the longer it takes, the more expensive it gets.


On a tangent
Since the government owes a large chunk of GM, can they go back to making the electric cars that GM used to make? Past time to get that ball rolling too.

 

[Megazell]

You have the means my friend. What about those who don't?

Non-profit groups are open to everyone and many of them have starter kits for free and free classes on how to do this...Sooooo...What do you mean by the 'means'?

 

[kjxxxx]

Can't drive cars with solar pannel. Rigs moving away from US shores is more costly to the economy than freaking solar panels and nat gas right now. Alternative energy is not up to spead to where we can afford to kill off oil projects yet.

I believe a 1 month moratorium might have been ok and that period of time they could put moratorium on similar depth as BPs

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Can't drive cars with solar pannel. Rigs moving away from US shores is more costly to the economy than freaking solar panels and nat gas right now. Alternative energy is not up to spead to where we can afford to kill off oil projects yet.

I believe a 1 month moratorium might have been ok and that period of time they could put moratorium on similar depth as BPs

One month isn't nearly long enough to check out the hundreds (thousands?) of rigs.
This whole thing about the economics is a strawman anyway. The White House was able to get an additional $100m just for people affected by the moratorium.
Instead of grousing about how alternatives aren't up to speed yet, we need to be investing in them to get them there, both public and private sectors. We've been talking about depending less on oil since the Nixon Administration. How much more talking with little action do we need? How many more oil spills, refinery explosions, mine explosions do we need? What's the number so everybody can know?

 

[Megazell]

Can't drive cars with solar pannel.

That's not 100% correct.

In NYC, during the Earth Day Free NYC Events in Queens, there are group of solar power enthusiast that gather with machines they made throughout the year. Many of them are artist, engineers and other walks of life and they showcase cars of different configurations that they use in their day to day lives.

Mind you I'm not advocating for JUST solar power but I am doing what I can to move into the new direction of self-sufficiency and just trying to highlight some info that a lot of people may not know about.

 

[kjxxxx]

I agree with what you say about more could be done for alternative now but as it currently stands we are not there yet. Perhaps it will take $150/barrel of oil to do it
I would like to think the judge looked at arguments from both side and came to a fair conclusion. The judge issued a 22 page report.

The engineers/scientists that the government had looking into the situation said the government blanket halting of activities was contrary to what their studies showed and that the government was misrepresenting their report.

The officials in the Gulf states are pushing for the lifting of the ban. They are looking at the environmental impact also.

How much time will they need to do your analysis and overall of the system. Since there are hundreds of rigs and 1000's of wells being monitored by only 400 or so employees. How long do you propose for them to keep the moratorium while they train new staff and recheck every well cause six month will definately not be enough for an overall of the system.

One month isn't nearly long enough to check out the hundreds (thousands?) of rigs.
This whole thing about the economics is a strawman anyway. The White House was able to get an additional $100m just for people affected by the moratorium.
Instead of grousing about how alternatives aren't up to speed yet, we need to be investing in them to get them there, both public and private sectors. We've been talking about depending less on oil since the Nixon Administration. How much more talking with little action do we need? How many more oil spills, refinery explosions, mine explosions do we need? What's the number so everybody can know?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I agree with what you say about more could be done for alternative now but as it currently stands we are not there yet. Perhaps it will take $150/barrel of oil to do it
I would like to think the judge looked at arguments from both side and came to a fair conclusion. The judge issued a 22 page report.

The engineers/scientists that the government had looking into the situation said the government blanket halting of activities was contrary to what their studies showed and that the government was misrepresenting their report.

The officials in the Gulf states are pushing for the lifting of the ban. They are looking at the environmental impact also.
How much time will they need to do your analysis and overall of the system. Since there are hundreds of rigs and 1000's of wells being monitored by only 400 or so employees. How long do you propose for them to keep the moratorium while they train new staff and recheck every well cause six month will definately not be enough for an overall of the system.

No they aren't. They're looking at votes and Big Oil's money.

It takes as long as it takes. The objective is to avoid another spill as best we can. Again BP has a $100 million fund set up to pay people out of work due to the moratorium, so who's hurting if they still get paid?

We'll never "be there" if we don't get started. We're already 40 yrs. late.

 

[Gunner]

Non-profit groups are open to everyone and many of them have starter kits for free and free classes on how to do this...Sooooo...What do you mean by the 'means'?

Poor people in any hood USA. What non profit groups? If there was such an abundance we would be using it now. What is practical?

I can't argue with your crux of your argument. I concede you are right. But all i'm saying is that the fuels and technical advances you speak to are not available.

Remember when that large cell phone came out in the movie Wall Street? It was to expensive for John Q Public to Own. Now the technological advancement is as simple as walking into a Walmart and picking out a GO Phone.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Poor people in any hood USA. What non profit groups? If there was such an abundance we would be using it now. What is practical?

I can't argue with your crux of your argument. I concede you are right. But all i'm saying is that the fuels and technical advances you speak to are not available.

Remember when that large cell phone came out in the movie Wall Street? It was to expensive for John Q Public to Own. Now the technological advancement is as simple as walking into a Walmart and picking out a GO Phone.

So because solar isn't available to poor people, it's not available on a big enough scale? What about all the middle class and higher who use far more energy and could afford green upgrades? While they're corrupt on several fronts, Bank of America has really been pushing "green" buildings and doing a lot on conservation (something that somehow keeps getting overlooked).

 

[Megazell]

Poor people in any hood USA. What non profit groups? If there was such an abundance we would be using it now. What is practical?

I can't argue with your crux of your argument. I concede you are right. But all i'm saying is that the fuels and technical advances you speak to are not available.

Remember when that large cell phone came out in the movie Wall Street? It was to expensive for John Q Public to Own. Now the technological advancement is as simple as walking into a Walmart and picking out a GO Phone.

It's practical to learn and educate one's self about a subject of this nature since it can benefit everyone and anyone.

I posted a few non-profits already here is the main org to go to.

NYC - http://www.powernaturally.org/ <- Sign up for newsletter and they will email you a list of free courses on how to get started with solar power.

Also the NYC Library has bulletin boards full of free starter kits to learn solar power for kids and adults.

Earth Day NYC also provides free info - http://www.earthdayny.org/ - 2 years ago I took advantage of some free recycled solar panels cells and with the help of some cats I met at their late night parties connected my first quad to power all things in my kitchen.

There are a few spots also like Bedford Avenue Science Crew of Brooklyn...which is just a bunch of men and women that make art and push for science changes in the city and also prepare for a trek to Burning man every year but they don't have a site...that I know of.

The technology is there...You talking more about ease and I don't think that is a strong enough argument for one not to get involved with it now.