You do not have the right to remain silent!

Cinamiss

Potential Star
Remaining silent no longer constitutes the right to remain silent:eek:

A U.S. Supreme Court ruling Tuesday about a suspect's Miranda rights will make little difference in how local law enforcement operates, but it could be a change for suspects.

In a 5-4 decision Tuesday, justices ruled that suspects must tell detectives they want to remain silent. A right to remain silent and a right to a lawyer are at the top of the warnings that police recite to suspects during arrests and interrogations. But Tuesday's majority said suspects must break their silence and tell police they are going to remain quiet to stop an interrogation, just as they must tell police that they want a lawyer.

http://www.news-press.com/article/20100603/CRIME/6030381/1075/Miranda-ruling-changes-little
 
I saw that and this is a major, major new story that can barely get any airtime, another failure by the press and media.
 

Moderator's Note:
The case is Mary Berghuis, Warden vs. Van Chester
Thompkins
. The United States filed an Amicus (friend of the Court) Brief
in this case. I have excerpted from that Brief the Facts, etc., below. To
make it simper to read, I have replaced the word "Respondent" with the
word "Defendant." If you would like to read the Brief in its entirety, you
can find it here in PDF format.


<font size="4">THE FACTS</font size>

On January 10, 2000, a shooting occurred outside a strip mall in Southfield, Michigan. The two victims, Frederick France and Samuel Morris, were driving around the mall when several men on foot, including the Defendant, Van Chester Thompkins, stopped in front of their car and began staring them down.

France and Morris had words with Defendant, then drove away. A few minutes later, Defendant and his crew pulled up in a van next to France and Morris, so that the passenger side of the van (where respondent sat) was aligned with the driver’s side of the car (where Morris sat).

Defendant said to France and Morris, “What you say, Big Dog?,” and then pulled out a gun and fired several shots at them. Morris died from multiple gunshot wounds; France was injured but eventually recovered.


<font size="4">THE ARREST:</font size>

The Defendant fled and was apprehended about a year later in Ohio. Two Southfield Michigan police officers traveled to Ohio to interview respondent while he was being held pending extradition.


<font size="4">THE POLICE INTERVIEW:</font size>

The interview began at approximately 1:30 p.m. and lasted between two and one-half and three hours. Defendant was not sick, injured, or intoxicated during the interview, and
the police never threatened him.

<u>Miranda Warnings</u>

Detective Christopher Helgert began the interview by presenting respondent with an advice of rights form. The form stated the Miranda warnings, followed by the question, “Do you understand each of these rights that I have explained to you? Detective Helgert asked Defendant to read one of the warnings out loud in order to ensure that Defendant understood English; respondent did. J

Detective Helgert then read all of the warnings to Defendant and asked him to sign the form to evidence his understanding of his rights; Defendant declined to do so. Detective Helgert “asked [respondent] if he understood the Rights,” and Defendant answered “Yes.”


<u>The Confession</u>

During the interview, Defendant never said that he did not want to talk with the police or that he wanted an attorney. He mostly listened as the two officers talked to him. Although Detective Helgert described the interview as “very, very one-sided,” he stated that Defendant occasionally shared “limited verbal responses” with the officers—such as “Yes,” “No,” or “I don’t know”—and communicated nonverbally by making eye contact and nodding his head. The officers told respondent that they had information about the murder and that they wanted to hear his side of the story, because there are two sides to every story. Detective Helgert also suggested that respondent provide information to help himself. Respondent listened but did not have “any significant response” to those suggestions.

<center>Finally, Detective Helgert tried “a spiritual tac[k].”

<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">He asked Defendant whether he believed in God.
Defendant made eye contact with Detective Helgert, said “Yes,”
and his eyes “well[ed] up with tears.”</span> Detective Helgert
<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">asked Defendant whether he prayed to God, and Defendant said, “Yes.”</span> Detective
<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Helgert then asked Defendant, <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">“Do you pray to God to forgive you for shooting that boy down?”
Defendant answered “Yes” and looked down.
</span> </center>

Defendant declined to write anything down, and the interview ended shortly thereafter.


Defendant was charged with first-degree murder, assault with intent to commit murder, and several firearms-related offenses.




MODERATOR'S NOTE: At the trial, Defendant moved to suppress (keep
the statement from being admitted into evidence against him). The trial
court denied that motion. The statement was admitted and Defendant
was convicted.


As you now know, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the conviction in this
case and upheld the trial court's denial of the motion to suppress allowing
the "confession" to be sued against Thompson.

Voting In Favor: Justice Anthony M. Kennedy (who wrote the opinion)
Justices Scalia, Alito, and Thomas and Chief Justice Roberts.

Dissenting: Justices Stevens, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, and Breyer.

<font size="4">But, Why did I post all of this ???</font size>

  1. <font size="3">To give you more than the media probably ever would;</font size>

  2. <font size="3">To demonstrate that one doesn't have to wait to be informed, by the media; and</font size>

  3. <font size="3">To make an interesting point that will become quite clear, in the next segment below - - KEEP READING</font size></font size>

<font size="3">As I indicated above, the United States was not involved in this lawsuit; it was a matter between the State of Michigan and the Defendant. But, the United states involved itself through, non-other than its then Solicitor General -- now
<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Supreme Court nominee, Elena Kagan</span>.</font size>


Elena Kagan presented the government's case as Solicitor General of the U.S. Kagan supported Kennedy's ruling in her arguments that pointed out that the ruling spelled out for prosecutors and defendants just how the right against self-incrimination applies in such cases. Of course, those who opposed it stated that the requirement that the defendant must speak to indicate his intention to remain silent further erodes the ability of the defendant to stay completely silent about the case.

</font size>]​


<font size="4">The Issue - As Kagan Stated it</font size>

"This case presents issues concerning the application of Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966), including:

  • <font size="3">whether a suspect must unambiguously invoke the right to remain silent in order to preclude police questioning; Yes</font size>

  • <font size="3">whether the police may question a suspect who has been informed of his Miranda rights, has stated that he understood his rights, and has not invoked or waived those rights; Yes, and </font size>

  • <font size="3">whether a suspect who is aware of his rights waives them when he knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily responds to police questioning. Yes</font size>

Although the case arises on federal habeas review of a state conviction under 28 U.S.C. 2254, the Court’s view of the underlying Miranda questions has substantial implications for federal criminal investigations and trials. Accordingly, the United States has a significant federal interest in the case.


<font size="4">Kagan's Argument, Summarized</font size>

A. The Defendant validly waived his Fifth Amendment privilege against compelled self-incrimination when he answered police questions after receiving and understanding his Miranda rights.

  • Respondent listened to police questions for a time, without either invoking or waiving his rights, but he ultimately decided to speak.

  • That course of conduct [deciding to speak] evidenced a knowing, intelligent, and voluntary waiver of his Miranda rights, and his statements
    were therefore admissible in the State’s case in chief.

B. The Fifth Amendment analysis in this case consists of three inquiries: (1) whether respondent invoked his Fifth Amendment rights after receiving the Miranda warnings; (2) whether the police permissibly interrogated respondent after he stated that he understood his rights but he neither invoked nor waived them; and (3) whether respondent validly waived his rights when he made incriminating statements to the police.

  • Respondent did not invoke his Fifth Amendment rights because he did not communicate clearly that he wished to exercise his right to “cut off questioning.” Michigan v. Mosley, 423 U.S. 96, 100 (1975) (quoting
    Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436, 474 (1966)).
    • In Davis v. United States, 512 U.S. 452 (1994), this Court held that, once a suspect has been informed of his right to counsel, the suspect must invoke that right unambiguously.
    • The inquiry under Davis is whether a reasonable police officer in the circumstances would understand that the suspect requested counsel. An ambiguous request does not require the police to cease questioning,
      the Court held, because such a rule would interfere with effective law enforcement without providing any necessary protection to Fifth Amendment rights.
    • Although Davis addressed the Miranda right to counsel, its requirement of an “unambiguous or unequivocal” invocation, 512 U.S. at 462, should apply to the right to silence as well.
    • Requiring an objectively clear assertion of a suspect’s “right to cut off questioning,” Mosley, 423 U.S. at 103, respects the suspect’s rights while providing clear guidance to the police and permitting legitimate law enforcement activity.
    • And, although Davis applied its unequivocal-invocation standard after
      an initial waiver of Fifth Amendment rights, the Davis standard should apply to initial invocations as well. In this case, respondent did not clearly invoke his
      right “to terminate questioning.” Mosley, 423 U.S. at 103. Respondent never stated that he did not want to talk with the police. Nor did he attempt to end the interview.
    • Respondent suggests that he implicitly invoked his right to silence by remaining silent much of the time. But a suspect may silently listen to questions for some period without unambiguously invoking his right to terminate questioning.
    • In any event, even during the time in which he did not answer questions seeking his account of the crime, respondent did occasionally participate in
      the interview. Under the circumstances, respondent did not invoke his right to silence.


    C.. If, after receiving and understanding the warnings, a suspect neither invokes nor waives his rights under Miranda, officers may engage in non-coercive questioning and efforts to persuade the suspect to speak.
    • Miranda requires the police to provide a suspect in custody with certain warnings in order to dispel the coercion inherent in custodial interrogation. When a suspect has received the Miranda warnings and has an opportunity
      to exercise his rights, the suspect has received the protections envisioned in Miranda, and the police may question him.
      • The police are not required to obtain a waiver of a suspect’s rights before engaging in questioning. Such a rule would penalize legitimate police investigations with no concomitant Fifth Amendment benefit, and it would
        be inconsistent with this Court’s holding that a waiver may be inferred from conduct and speech during interrogation. See North Carolina v. Butler, 441 U.S. 369 (1979).
        • Here, the police provided respondent with complete Miranda warnings, respondent said he understood his rights, and respondent did not immediately either invoke or waive those rights. The police therefore could
          question respondent consistent with the Fifth Amendment.


        D. If a suspect knows and understands his Miranda rights, and makes statements to the police free of coercion, that is sufficient to demonstrate a waiver of the suspect’s rights. A waiver of Miranda rights must be knowing, intelligent, and voluntary. The government need not prove that the suspect expressly waived his rights; under Butler, a waiver may be inferred from the
        totality of the circumstances. When a suspect receives the Miranda warnings and evidences his understanding of his rights, then his subsequent statements are knowing and intelligent. When the government shows that
        the suspect’s statements were not coerced, then the statements are voluntary.
        • In holding that respondent did not waive his rights, the court of appeals incorrectly focused on respondent’s conduct before making his statements, rather than asking whether his later decision to answer questions was knowing, intelligent, and voluntary.
        • Respondent validly waived his Miranda rights here. Respondent read a portion of the Miranda warnings out loud, then told the officers that he understood the warnings. He controlled when he would participate in the
          interview, and he ultimately decided to answer a series of questions in response to the officers’ appeal to his conscience and religious beliefs.
        • Nothing suggests that police coercion led him to speak. Respondent’s statements therefore were properly admitted in the State’s case in chief at trial.

        <
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        <font size="3">

        Kagan's confirmation hearing will get rocky, from an unexpected source: Guess Who ?


        </font size>
 
Que, I don't get the impression you think this decision is a big deal.

Actually, I think its more nuance that substantive change. We've heard it on TV a zillion times: "you have the right to . . . etc., etc." I would think that most people understand that "you have the right to remain silent" - means not only do you have the right to, but you should have the sense or presence of mind to: STFU.

If you accept that common understanding of the right to remain silent, then people should know and understand that if you later start running your fucking mouth: Hey, You're Not Silent! - and what you say WILL be used against you.

I say nuance, because the Court is saying the right must be affirmatively invoked -- as opposed to what probably had been the previous understanding that all one had to do was, STFU.

The "Huge" difference is that once you affirmatively invoke the right (by saying you wish to remain silent), the questioning should come to an abrupt halt. Without invoking the right, even though the subject is maintaining silence, the questioning, badgering and even harassment could continue. But, still, if you're going to STFU, then STFU and this clarification in the law would be insignificant.

BOTTOM LINE: for anyone who didn't understand or who chose not to read all of the above -- TELL THE MOFO YOU WANT TO REMAIN SILENT -- AND -- DO IN FACT, REMAIN SILENT.

QueEx
 
Actually, I think its more nuance that substantive change. We've heard it on TV a zillion times: "you have the right to . . . etc., etc." I would think that most people understand that "you have the right to remain silent" - means not only do you have the right to, but you should have the sense or presence of mind to: STFU.

If you accept that common understanding of the right to remain silent, then people should know and understand that if you later start running your fucking mouth: Hey, You're Not Silent! - and what you say WILL be used against you.

I say nuance, because the Court is saying the right must be affirmatively invoked -- as opposed to what probably had been the previous understanding that all one had to do was, STFU.

The "Huge" difference is that once you affirmatively invoke the right (by saying you wish to remain silent), the questioning should come to an abrupt halt. Without invoking the right, even though the subject is maintaining silence, the questioning, badgering and even harassment could continue. But, still, if you're going to STFU, then STFU and this clarification in the law would be insignificant.

BOTTOM LINE: for anyone who didn't understand or who chose not to read all of the above -- TELL THE MOFO YOU WANT TO REMAIN SILENT -- AND -- DO IN FACT, REMAIN SILENT.

QueEx


Indeed.
I'm more concerned at the actions of this activist court that Bush left us with and we'll probably be stuck with for the foreseeable, Kagan or not.
 
P.S.

There is a saying: bad facts make bad law. In this case, the bad-ass Defendant choked up and, good for him, F'd up on the "Spiritual Attack". I have no sympathy for him, at all.

A better case, however, to test the law would have been a case where a defendant under a constant barrage of questions, or sleep/food/water deprivation, etc., decided to talk. I don't know that the Court's reasoning would have been the same as here where ole boi apparently made comments several times before getting choked up thinking about the real harm he caused and where his likely resting place would soon be.

QueEx
 
i'm surprised (based solely on the facts as presented in this thread) that the defendant's counsel did not attack the confession based on interview v. detainment.

where was this lengthy interview conducted and did the defendant have reason to believe that he was being detained and interrogated?

locked room in a police station?

but aside from that, i could envision problems with foreign language defendants and mental incompetents.
 
where was this lengthy interview conducted and did the defendant have reason to believe that he was being detained and interrogated?

locked room in a police station?

"The Defendant fled and was apprehended about a year later in Ohio. Two Southfield Michigan police officers traveled to Ohio to interview respondent while he was being held pending extradition."
 
"The Defendant fled and was apprehended about a year later in Ohio. Two Southfield Michigan police officers traveled to Ohio to interview respondent while he was being held pending extradition."

so then its safe to assume that the defendant had already been arrested and in custody. it would then also stand to reason that he had been mirandized.

so he was informed not only of his right to remain silent (which he did not exercise), but he was also informed that anything that he said could and would be used against him.

seems like he hung himself.

i'm having a hard time figuring out why they would require the defendant to go the extra mile now in affirmatively stating their option to remain silent.

:confused:
 
so then its safe to assume that the defendant had already been arrested and in custody. it would then also stand to reason that he had been mirandized.
Done.

so he was informed not only of his right to remain silent (which he did not exercise), but he was also informed that anything that he said could and would be used against him.
Done.

seems like he hung himself.
Done.

i'm having a hard time figuring out why they would require the defendant to go the extra mile now in affirmatively stating their option to remain silent.

:confused:

Because, like the right to an attorney, you have to invoke it ?

QueEx
 
Because, like the right to an attorney, you have to invoke it ?

QueEx

seems to me that an extra hurdle is being placed before the defendant.

does this mean that peace officers everywhere will have to memorize amended miranda?

and that detained persons will have to be instructed on how to invoke their right to remain silent (as opposed to merely refusing to answer any questions)?
 
seems to me that an extra hurdle is being placed before the defendant.

Perhaps.

does this mean that peace officers everywhere will have to memorize amended miranda?
Don't think so. But, now that you've mentioned it, it wouldn't be a bad idea if it was a requirement that defendants be advised that they must "invoke the right to silence" in order to claim full protection under it. On the other hand, thats never been a requirement with respect to the "right to an attorney" -- though it must be invoked before provisions are made for defense counsel.

and that detained persons will have to be instructed on how to invoke their right to remain silent (as opposed to merely refusing to answer any questions)?

Or, just STFU :D

QueEx
 
Perhaps.


Don't think so. But, now that you've mentioned it, it wouldn't be a bad idea if it was a requirement that defendants be advised that they must "invoke the right to silence" in order to claim full protection under it. On the other hand, thats never been a requirement with respect to the "right to an attorney" -- though it must be invoked before provisions are made for defense counsel.



Or, just STFU :D
QueEx


That would keep a lot of people out of jail, even guilty ones.
 
but i've seen interrogations where defendants are goaded (not prodded) into making statements even after they claim they would like to remain silent.

Unfortunately, that occurs. And, when it does, IMO, it works to undermine the criminal justice system. Police, prosecutorial and/or judicial misconduct has the effect of breeding distrust among the populace and that, in my opinion, threatens collapse of the system. If people don't feel that the system can be trusted to deal fairly with those presumed to be innocent, the seeds are sown towards the slippery slope to anarchy. No system is perfect, but your example and many more may be the reason so many people are arriving at the conclusion that the justice system is in crises.

Nevertheless, does the Berghuis v. Thompkins case really have any affect where defendants are goaded (not prodded) into making statements even after they claim they would like to remain silent" ???

This is an example of abuse and it doesn't matter to those interrogators whether the defendant actually invoked the right to remain silent or not.

QueEx
 
Nevertheless, does the Berghuis v. Thompkins case really have any affect where defendants are goaded (not prodded) into making statements even after they claim they would like to remain silent" ???

QueEx

that's why it's puzzling to me.

perhaps better protection of defendant rights is required, not an amendment to current law/procedure.

but there may be a blind spot in this that i'm not seeing.
 
that's why it's puzzling to me.

perhaps better protection of defendant rights is required, not an amendment to current law/procedure.

but there may be a blind spot in this that i'm not seeing.

Record the complete interview? Many jurisdictions do, especially station-house interviews/interrogations. But, that may not always be possible in the field, especially where the defendant insist on talking.

Nevertheless, if all (or at least more) aspects of interrogations are recorded, wouldn't that go a long way towards putting the "Goaders" and "Prodders" out of business ???

QueEx
 

moderator's note:
the case is mary berghuis, warden vs. Van chester
thompkins
. The united states filed an amicus (friend of the court) brief
in this case. I have excerpted from that brief the facts, etc., below. To
make it simper to read, i have replaced the word "respondent" with the
word "defendant." if you would like to read the brief in its entirety, you
can find it here in pdf format.


<font size="4">the facts</font size>

on january 10, 2000, a shooting occurred outside a strip mall in southfield, michigan. The two victims, frederick france and samuel morris, were driving around the mall when several men on foot, including the defendant, van chester thompkins, stopped in front of their car and began staring them down.

France and morris had words with defendant, then drove away. A few minutes later, defendant and his crew pulled up in a van next to france and morris, so that the passenger side of the van (where respondent sat) was aligned with the driver’s side of the car (where morris sat).

Defendant said to france and morris, “what you say, big dog?,” and then pulled out a gun and fired several shots at them. Morris died from multiple gunshot wounds; france was injured but eventually recovered.


<font size="4">the arrest:</font size>

the defendant fled and was apprehended about a year later in ohio. Two southfield michigan police officers traveled to ohio to interview respondent while he was being held pending extradition.


<font size="4">the police interview:</font size>

the interview began at approximately 1:30 p.m. And lasted between two and one-half and three hours. Defendant was not sick, injured, or intoxicated during the interview, and
the police never threatened him.

<u>miranda warnings</u>

detective christopher helgert began the interview by presenting respondent with an advice of rights form. The form stated the miranda warnings, followed by the question, “do you understand each of these rights that i have explained to you? Detective helgert asked defendant to read one of the warnings out loud in order to ensure that defendant understood english; respondent did. J

detective helgert then read all of the warnings to defendant and asked him to sign the form to evidence his understanding of his rights; defendant declined to do so. detective helgert “asked [respondent] if he understood the rights,” and defendant answered “yes.”


<u>the confession</u>

during the interview, defendant never said that he did not want to talk with the police or that he wanted an attorney. he mostly listened as the two officers talked to him. although detective helgert described the interview as “very, very one-sided,” he stated that defendant occasionally shared “limited verbal responses” with the officers—such as “yes,” “no,” or “i don’t know”—and communicated nonverbally by making eye contact and nodding his head. The officers told respondent that they had information about the murder and that they wanted to hear his side of the story, because there are two sides to every story. Detective helgert also suggested that respondent provide information to help himself. Respondent listened but did not have “any significant response” to those suggestions.

<center>finally, detective helgert tried “a spiritual tac[k].”

<span style="background-color: #ffff00">he asked defendant whether he believed in god.
Defendant made eye contact with detective helgert, said “yes,”
and his eyes “well[ed] up with tears.”</span> detective helgert
<span style="background-color: #ffff00">asked defendant whether he prayed to god, and defendant said, “yes.”</span> detective
<span style="background-color: #ffff00">helgert then asked defendant, <span style="background-color: #ffff00">“do you pray to god to forgive you for shooting that boy down?”
defendant answered “yes” and looked down.
</span> </center>

defendant declined to write anything down, and the interview ended shortly thereafter.


defendant was charged with first-degree murder, assault with intent to commit murder, and several firearms-related offenses.




moderator's note: at the trial, defendant moved to suppress (keep
the statement from being admitted into evidence against him). The trial
court denied that motion. The statement was admitted and defendant
was convicted.


As you now know, the u.s. Supreme court upheld the conviction in this
case and upheld the trial court's denial of the motion to suppress allowing
the "confession" to be sued against thompson.

voting in favor: justice anthony m. Kennedy (who wrote the opinion)
justices scalia, alito, and thomas and chief justice roberts.

dissenting: justices stevens, ginsburg, sotomayor, and breyer.

<font size="4">but, why did i post all of this ???</font size>

  1. <font size="3">to give you more than the media probably ever would;</font size>

  2. <font size="3">to demonstrate that one doesn't have to wait to be informed, by the media; and</font size>

  3. <font size="3">to make an interesting point that will become quite clear, in the next segment below - - keep reading</font size></font size>

<font size="3">as i indicated above, the united states was not involved in this lawsuit; it was a matter between the state of michigan and the defendant. But, the united states involved itself through, non-other than its then solicitor general -- now
<span style="background-color: #ffff00">supreme court nominee, elena kagan</span>.</font size>


elena kagan presented the government's case as solicitor general of the u.s. Kagan supported kennedy's ruling in her arguments that pointed out that the ruling spelled out for prosecutors and defendants just how the right against self-incrimination applies in such cases. Of course, those who opposed it stated that the requirement that the defendant must speak to indicate his intention to remain silent further erodes the ability of the defendant to stay completely silent about the case.

</font size>]​


<font size="4">the issue - as kagan stated it</font size>

"this case presents issues concerning the application of miranda v. Arizona, 384 u.s. 436 (1966), including:

  • <font size="3">whether a suspect must unambiguously invoke the right to remain silent in order to preclude police questioning; yes</font size>

  • <font size="3">whether the police may question a suspect who has been informed of his miranda rights, has stated that he understood his rights, and has not invoked or waived those rights; yes, and </font size>

  • <font size="3">whether a suspect who is aware of his rights waives them when he knowingly, intelligently, and voluntarily responds to police questioning. Yes</font size>

although the case arises on federal habeas review of a state conviction under 28 u.s.c. 2254, the court’s view of the underlying miranda questions has substantial implications for federal criminal investigations and trials. Accordingly, the united states has a significant federal interest in the case.


<font size="4">kagan's argument, summarized</font size>

a. the defendant validly waived his fifth amendment privilege against compelled self-incrimination when he answered police questions after receiving and understanding his miranda rights.

  • respondent listened to police questions for a time, without either invoking or waiving his rights, but he ultimately decided to speak.

  • that course of conduct [deciding to speak] evidenced a knowing, intelligent, and voluntary waiver of his miranda rights, and his statements
    were therefore admissible in the state’s case in chief.

b. the fifth amendment analysis in this case consists of three inquiries: (1) whether respondent invoked his fifth amendment rights after receiving the miranda warnings; (2) whether the police permissibly interrogated respondent after he stated that he understood his rights but he neither invoked nor waived them; and (3) whether respondent validly waived his rights when he made incriminating statements to the police.

  • respondent did not invoke his fifth amendment rights because he did not communicate clearly that he wished to exercise his right to “cut off questioning.” michigan v. Mosley, 423 u.s. 96, 100 (1975) (quoting
    miranda v. Arizona, 384 u.s. 436, 474 (1966)).
    • in davis v. United states, 512 u.s. 452 (1994), this court held that, once a suspect has been informed of his right to counsel, the suspect must invoke that right unambiguously.
    • the inquiry under davis is whether a reasonable police officer in the circumstances would understand that the suspect requested counsel. an ambiguous request does not require the police to cease questioning,
      the court held, because such a rule would interfere with effective law enforcement without providing any necessary protection to fifth amendment rights.
    • although davis addressed the miranda right to counsel, its requirement of an “unambiguous or unequivocal” invocation, 512 u.s. At 462, should apply to the right to silence as well.
    • requiring an objectively clear assertion of a suspect’s “right to cut off questioning,” mosley, 423 u.s. At 103, respects the suspect’s rights while providing clear guidance to the police and permitting legitimate law enforcement activity.
    • and, although davis applied its unequivocal-invocation standard after
      an initial waiver of fifth amendment rights, the davis standard should apply to initial invocations as well. In this case, respondent did not clearly invoke his
      right “to terminate questioning.” mosley, 423 u.s. At 103. Respondent never stated that he did not want to talk with the police. Nor did he attempt to end the interview.
    • respondent suggests that he implicitly invoked his right to silence by remaining silent much of the time. But a suspect may silently listen to questions for some period without unambiguously invoking his right to terminate questioning.
    • in any event, even during the time in which he did not answer questions seeking his account of the crime, respondent did occasionally participate in
      the interview. Under the circumstances, respondent did not invoke his right to silence.


    c.. If, after receiving and understanding the warnings, a suspect neither invokes nor waives his rights under miranda, officers may engage in non-coercive questioning and efforts to persuade the suspect to speak.
    • miranda requires the police to provide a suspect in custody with certain warnings in order to dispel the coercion inherent in custodial interrogation. When a suspect has received the miranda warnings and has an opportunity
      to exercise his rights, the suspect has received the protections envisioned in miranda, and the police may question him.
      • the police are not required to obtain a waiver of a suspect’s rights before engaging in questioning. Such a rule would penalize legitimate police investigations with no concomitant fifth amendment benefit, and it would
        be inconsistent with this court’s holding that a waiver may be inferred from conduct and speech during interrogation. See north carolina v. Butler, 441 u.s. 369 (1979).
        • here, the police provided respondent with complete miranda warnings, respondent said he understood his rights, and respondent did not immediately either invoke or waive those rights. The police therefore could
          question respondent consistent with the fifth amendment.


        d. if a suspect knows and understands his miranda rights, and makes statements to the police free of coercion, that is sufficient to demonstrate a waiver of the suspect’s rights. A waiver of miranda rights must be knowing, intelligent, and voluntary. The government need not prove that the suspect expressly waived his rights; under butler, a waiver may be inferred from the
        totality of the circumstances. When a suspect receives the miranda warnings and evidences his understanding of his rights, then his subsequent statements are knowing and intelligent. When the government shows that
        the suspect’s statements were not coerced, then the statements are voluntary.
        • in holding that respondent did not waive his rights, the court of appeals incorrectly focused on respondent’s conduct before making his statements, rather than asking whether his later decision to answer questions was knowing, intelligent, and voluntary.
        • respondent validly waived his miranda rights here. Respondent read a portion of the miranda warnings out loud, then told the officers that he understood the warnings. He controlled when he would participate in the
          interview, and he ultimately decided to answer a series of questions in response to the officers’ appeal to his conscience and religious beliefs.
        • nothing suggests that police coercion led him to speak. Respondent’s statements therefore were properly admitted in the state’s case in chief at trial.

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        kagan's confirmation hearing will get rocky, from an unexpected source: Guess who ?


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      • Confirmation hearings begin, Monday, June 28, 2010.

 
will miranda be reworded to let people know they must invoke their rights verbally in order to receive them?
 
will miranda be reworded to let people know they must invoke their rights verbally in order to receive them?

Interesting idea, but I doubt there is a chance it will come to past.

The high court has already held that one must invoke the right to silence. If SCOTUS wanted to also state that a defendant must first be told that he/she has to invoke the right to silence, it had the clear chance to say that in Berghuis v. Thompkins, but didn't. In fact, if "must inform defendant" is the law, then arguably the Court would not have upheld the confession in Berghuis v. Thompkins because: Thompkins had not been informed that he had to invoke the right to silence. (If you see what I mean, by upholding the confession in Berghuis v. Thompkins, the Court has in effect said you don't have to inform defendant that he has to invoke the right to silence in order to be covered by it).

I can see where requiring interrogators to first inform a defendant that he must actually invoke the right in order to be protected could be helpful to a defendant, BUT:

  • If a defendant knows he has the right to remain silent; why would he decide to talk - - when he has also been informed that anything he says CAN AND WILL be used against him ? ? ? AND,

  • If he decides to talk (knowing that what he says can and will be used against him), WHY would that not be a knowing and intelligent waiver of the right ? ? ?

If defendants shut their mouths, they're good - - but, if a defendant is going to get smart and start talking
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QueEx
 
Interesting idea, but I doubt there is a chance it will come to past.

The high court has already held that one must invoke the right to silence. If SCOTUS wanted to also state that a defendant must first be told that he/she has to invoke the right to silence, it had the clear chance to say that in Berghuis v. Thompkins, but didn't. In fact, if "must inform defendant" is the law, then arguably the Court would not have upheld the confession in Berghuis v. Thompkins because: Thompkins had not been informed that he had to invoke the right to silence. (If you see what I mean, by upholding the confession in Berghuis v. Thompkins, the Court has in effect said you don't have to inform defendant that he has to invoke the right to silence in order to be covered by it).

I can see where requiring interrogators to first inform a defendant that he must actually invoke the right in order to be protected could be helpful to a defendant, BUT:

  • If a defendant knows he has the right to remain silent; why would he decide to talk - - when he has also been informed that anything he says CAN AND WILL be used against him ? ? ? AND,

  • If he decides to talk (knowing that what he says can and will be used against him), WHY would that not be a knowing and intelligent waiver of the right ? ? ?

If defendants shut their mouths, they're good - - but, if a defendant is going to get smart and start talking
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QueEx
i get it - that's interesting.
one question on the same topic that always comes to me

Say your _________ is found slain. You're devastated. You want the guilty party dead/caught ASAP. Police can be idiots/biased/insane. Do you not talk to them and possibly help the suspect get away and look guilty or talk to them and possibly be implicated because some retard thinks tears are sweat etc?
 
i get it - that's interesting.
one question on the same topic that always comes to me

Say your _________ is found slain. You're devastated. You want the guilty party dead/caught ASAP. Police can be idiots/biased/insane. Do you not talk to them and possibly help the suspect get away and look guilty or talk to them and possibly be implicated because some retard thinks tears are sweat etc?

The police are on our side. (Okay, I don't trust those SOB's either).

Clearly, there are those who conclude that painful tears are mere evidence of guilt. On the other hand, in most cases, there will be other evidence that has no tears: Sounds (gunshots, shouts, argument, sounds associated with struggle); Attendant facts (signs of struggle, a trail of blood, door lock with signs of tampering). If asked about those things and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ plays coy, what would you think ???

If you know or have an idea "whodunnit" or have general information that might be helpful to the investigation -- (assuming it isn't you) I would think the best thing would be to cooperate.

As you assumed, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ is usually a prime suspect anyway. If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ withholds things that he/she should know, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ runs the risk of increasing scrutiny upon him/herself or unnecessarily raising the level of suspicion.

There are usually always some attendant facts at the crime scene or about the victim that the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ would know, i.e., because of presence in the home/place of the crime; or things that one __<u>(Relation)</u>__ knows about the other (habits, tendencies, friends, acquaintances, etc.). While those things may not necessarily point to "Whodunnit" -- withholding those things, for no apparent reason, can cast an additional pall of suspicion upon the __<u>(Relation)</u>__.

If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ was in the home or at the scene where a shooting took place, and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ decides to be coy when police arrived -- how does that look ??? What would you think ??? (Once again, LOL, assuming that __<u>(Relation)</u>__ didn't do it).

On the other hand, admitting presence but truthfully saying you did or didn't hear a gunshot or see the shooter (and the victim was indeed shot) -- could be helpful in ruling the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ out, instead of increasing suspicion.

If there is truly fear that the police will not act properly, CONSULT AND ATTORNEY (preferrably someone not interesting in grandstanding) and offer cooperation through that medium.

QueEx
 
The police are on our side. (Okay, I don't trust those SOB's either).

Clearly, there are those who conclude that painful tears are mere evidence of guilt. On the other hand, in most cases, there will be other evidence that has no tears: Sounds (gunshots, shouts, argument, sounds associated with struggle); Attendant facts (signs of struggle, a trail of blood, door lock with signs of tampering). If asked about those things and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ plays coy, what would you think ???

If you know or have an idea "whodunnit" or have general information that might be helpful to the investigation -- (assuming it isn't you) I would think the best thing would be to cooperate.

As you assumed, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ is usually a prime suspect anyway. If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ withholds things that he/she should know, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ runs the risk of increasing scrutiny upon him/herself or unnecessarily raising the level of suspicion.

There are usually always some attendant facts at the crime scene or about the victim that the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ would know, i.e., because of presence in the home/place of the crime; or things that one __<u>(Relation)</u>__ knows about the other (habits, tendencies, friends, acquaintances, etc.). While those things may not necessarily point to "Whodunnit" -- withholding those things, for no apparent reason, can cast an additional pall of suspicion upon the __<u>(Relation)</u>__.

If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ was in the home or at the scene where a shooting took place, and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ decides to be coy when police arrived -- how does that look ??? What would you think ??? (Once again, LOL, assuming that __<u>(Relation)</u>__ didn't do it).

On the other hand, admitting presence but truthfully saying you did or didn't hear a gunshot or see the shooter (and the victim was indeed shot) -- could be helpful in ruling the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ out, instead of increasing suspicion.

If there is truly fear that the police will not act properly, CONSULT AND ATTORNEY (preferrably someone not interesting in grandstanding) and offer cooperation through that medium.

QueEx
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: That's a lil angela lansburyish
Thanks man. I just hear and read the worst stuff about those situations and always wondered what someone who knows the right thing to do would suggest. Those ACLU Know Your Rights videos tell you to basically not do shit around/with cops but they assume the worst at all times.
 
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Long Version (Requires too much thought)
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The police are on our side. (Okay, I don't trust those SOB's either).

Clearly, there are those who conclude that painful tears are mere evidence of guilt. On the other hand, in most cases, there will be other evidence that has no tears: Sounds (gunshots, shouts, argument, sounds associated with struggle); Attendant facts (signs of struggle, a trail of blood, door lock with signs of tampering). If asked about those things and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ plays coy, what would you think ???

If you know or have an idea "whodunnit" or have general information that might be helpful to the investigation -- (assuming it isn't you) I would think the best thing would be to cooperate.

As you assumed, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ is usually a prime suspect anyway. If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ withholds things that he/she should know, the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ runs the risk of increasing scrutiny upon him/herself or unnecessarily raising the level of suspicion.

There are usually always some attendant facts at the crime scene or about the victim that the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ would know, i.e., because of presence in the home/place of the crime; or things that one __<u>(Relation)</u>__ knows about the other (habits, tendencies, friends, acquaintances, etc.). While those things may not necessarily point to "Whodunnit" -- withholding those things, for no apparent reason, can cast an additional pall of suspicion upon the __<u>(Relation)</u>__.

If the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ was in the home or at the scene where a shooting took place, and the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ decides to be coy when police arrived -- how does that look ??? What would you think ??? (Once again, LOL, assuming that __<u>(Relation)</u>__ didn't do it).

On the other hand, admitting presence but truthfully saying you did or didn't hear a gunshot or see the shooter (and the victim was indeed shot) -- could be helpful in ruling the __<u>(Relation)</u>__ out, instead of increasing suspicion.

If there is truly fear that the police will not act properly, CONSULT AND ATTORNEY (preferrably someone not interesting in grandstanding) and offer cooperation through that medium.

QueEx


<font size="3">
Short Version (Should be carried in your back pocket for quick reference)
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Those ACLU Know Your Rights videos tell you to basically not do shit around/with cops but they assume the worst at all times.
 
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