*****The Offical CAVS vs CELTICS thread*******

[Nobody]

I think Lebron has been the best player in the league for more than two seasons. Even with the best regular season record, the Cavs really werent for real. They never really looked like a well-coached championship team..there have been scores of teams that have had the best record and failed to win titles or even get to the finals.

But I guess my point is this... there is a reason organizations like the Lakers are almost always contending... they always keep great players around..the fill the roles correctly around their stars, and they tend to have a HOF coach.

And Lebron wont win a title until he has a real championship team around him and a great coach....

I wasnt saying the Jordan comparison 100 percent equated..but I think the point is clear..it takes more than one great player to win a title

I agree with you man, completely.

But the way I look at it, Lebron's the best raw player, Kobe's the best because he gets shit done. You have to have good players to win, I been saying that for the longest, for years on this board.

I'm not mad at lebron at all - but to me? When I consider Lebron I put him on the level of a Shaq - so completely dominant he can beat a team by himself, and not by willing a win like say Kobe, but by pulverizing you to a pulp.

I really think Lebron opened his eyes and said fuck it - management doesn't know shit about building me a team. They could have had Michael Redd or Ray Allen, they get Larry Hughes. They get mo williams after they lose in the finals, they chase after mediocre overachieving players who become underachieving players for the cavs - because the games actually mean something now.

Right now, his arc is following that of KG. I hope he paid attention to what happened to KG though, and puts a stop to it.

Management, coaching sucks, they have shown NO sign of getting better, and they don't have money for a free agent this year, don't have the pieces to trade for one, and if they did who the hell is going to GIVE Cleveland the pieces to pretty much contend year in year out for the next 10 years?


Then the season AFTER next year, they'll have 38 million in contracts BEFORE they have to sign Lebron, and they won't have money even then for a major free agent.

They have NOTHING to offer except an extra 30 mil - and what good is that 30 mil if your team isn't winning shit, and won't win shit for at least 4 years (who's gonna stop Dwight howard? huh?!).

You go to Chicago, you have Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, etc.
You go to Miami and Dwyane Wade is there, you trade Beasley of course.
You go to New Jersey and they have Brook Lopez, Devin Harris (the soon to be traded Devin Harris), possibly John Wall. - and with Joe Johnson's stock dropping they couldget Lebron and Joe Johnson possibly.
You go to New York and you have Gallinari, and any combination of Wade/Stoudemire/Bosh/Boozer/Johnson, and they still have Eddy Curry's valuable trading contract.


The CAVS don't have SHIT.

 

[RoadRage]

dude
shut the fuck up already

Son nobody what to hear what you got to say! You stay away for a few game and nobody wont notice, love me or hate me at least I bring something to the table, no ask yourself what the fuck to you bring!

 

[drowzie]

Man in LeBron's defense, the media, fans, the NBA need to stop putting that pressure on the dude. He's just not ready to guide his team to the Chip, let him grow into it. It takes more than just putting a good surrounding cast around him, he still has to study the game and go through tough battles in order to lead his team to the Gold. All of that crowning him the "Chose One", "King James", etc. Now the talk is all about where he is going? Let the nigga breathe. Let him grow, and learn from greats such as Kobe as to how to will your team to greatness.

 

[Chitownheadbusa]

yall here dude on ESPN.

he has a good point.
out of all the teams that will be calling Lebron, Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, Nets, what other team besides the Bulls has good players already suited up that can surround a player like Lebron and win it all?

this is coming from a Bulls fan of course...but im just saying.

unlike Cleveland....Chicago is one of the most popular cities in the US...along with NY, LA, etc.
Big market city. Jordan played here....i mean what else do you need?

 

[RoadRage]

yall here dude on ESPN.

he has a good point.
out of all the teams that will be calling Lebron, Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, Nets, what other team besides the Bulls has good players already suited up that can surround a player like Lebron and win it all?

this is coming from a Bulls fan of course...but im just saying.

I think James will give a good look at the Bulls.​

 

[chemist]

Ummm check the records, and check who the Cavs have beaten so far, I think the numbers speak for themselves, placing them already on top, and if you consider how poorly they played the first month of the season, adjusting to the new faces and their record would be even better if they didn't throw away the Utah and Denver games.
So there is no doubt who is on top right now, now getting Mo back is just the icing, getting Leon Powe is the sprinkles, signing Jamison is the cherry on top. Its almost over kill, cause not only have we stomped the Lakers with almost half of our squad playing.

Now here is the cool part, if the Cavs want to go fast they can throw at ya, Mo, -West, -James, -Jamison, -Varejao.

If they want to go big they can go, Mo, -Parker, James, Jamison, Shaq.

If they want to go really big, they can go Parker, -James, -Jamison, -Hickson, -Shaq.

If they want to go sharp shooters, they can go, Mo, -West, -James, -Jamison, -Big Z.

As you can see they will be able to customize their squad and mix match their players to make a customized team tailored made for their opponents.
Imagine them going, Parker, -James, -Jamison, -Hickson/Powe, and Shaq/Big Z vs the Lakers? Remember the Cavs made the Lakers look soft as hell with out all of thoste players, and coming off the bench would be the likes of Mo, West, Varejao, Gibson and Moon.
Here is another thing that puts them over the top, now you can allow James to rest on the bench, matter of fact he was able to do this for the first time with out Jamison, but now, the team should not miss a beat.
Match up wise, take any five, in the NBA and I would be able to construct five from the Cavs that would win in any match up. This trade, will be bigger for the Cavs this year, than, the Lakers getting Gasol, two years ago.
As for the Bulls I can make two Cavs teams that are better than your starting line up (at least on paper)
Team one
West
Mo
James
Varejao
Big Z

Team two
Gibson
Parker
Jamison
Hickson
Shaq
If they were split in half, and given a decent bench, both sides would make it to the playoffs. Now how many teams in the NBA can honestly do that?

Word up, them boys are so stacked that its hard to keep track of all the horses.
They have two teams that can beat most teams first teams. Check it, all 10 can put up 15 points or more, not to mention Powe and Moon, who can put up 15 also.
Team 1
Gibson
Parker
Jamison
Hickson
Shaq

Team 2
Mo
West
James
Varejao
Ilgauskas (resign)
Basically last years team.

Who's gonna beat them? The Lakers? The same team they embarassed in LA and beat with out Williams, West, Jamison and Powe? Other than last year, LeBron got Kobe number.

I didn't see you respond to all this shit you was talkin' earlier in the season yet. You said this team was stacked. What happened?

 

[Nobody]

You have to be honest here man.

Are you talking about the same Kobe that didnt make it out of the first round with the Lakers for 3 consecutive seasons..

Are you talking about the same Kobe that took 3 shots in game 7 against the Suns.

If that is the case... where you saying the same thing about Kobe then.... what changed besides them bringing in more talent and having Phil Jackson..before Gasol, Kobe was getting bounced out early every year too

Dont get amnesia on me.

There isnt a person alive like Jordan..not even Kobe so I hate to even mention Jordan...

Weve all seen Lebron close and perform at insane levels in the playoffs... even though they got swept, he took that sorry ass Cavs team to the finals at 22 years old..... shit has nothing to do with him being ready... this has everything to do with not having the structure behind to win championships...

switch positions and as great as Kobe is...he doesnt take this Cavs team anywhere either..

You're not connecting it right.

Those laker teams were GARBAGE outside of Kobe and Odom.

The Cavs have had the BEST team in the nba TWO straight seasons man.

Also, the situation with LA/PHX and Bos/Cle is the same.

Two players realizing that even if you do get past this round, you don't have the personnel to do shit, and if you do win, management tends to rest on their laurels.

Completely different situation team wise as far as record. Same situation individually speaking.

 

[alexw]

Man in LeBron's defense, the media, fans, the NBA need to stop putting that pressure on the dude. He's just not ready to guide his team to the Chip, let him grow into it. It takes more than just putting a good surrounding cast around him, he still has to study the game and go through tough battles in order to lead his team to the Gold. All of that crowning him the "Chose One", "King James", etc. Now the talk is all about where he is going? Let the nigga breathe. Let him grow, and learn from greats such as Kobe as to how to will your team to greatness.

lebron makes over 45 million a year to handle that pressure

pressure comes with greatness

he needs to live with it

 

[Nobody]

yall here dude on ESPN.

he has a good point.
out of all the teams that will be calling Lebron, Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, Nets, what other team besides the Bulls has good players already suited up that can surround a player like Lebron and win it all?

this is coming from a Bulls fan of course...but im just saying.

unlike Cleveland....Chicago is one of the most popular cities in the US...along with NY, LA, etc.
Big market city. Jordan played here....i mean what else do you need?

They can legitimately get him. I think they have the best chance, BUT I wonder if he is ready to play under that shadow of MJ. Imagine a season ender like this, but as a Bull? He'll risk tarnishing his legacy if that occurs.

 

[sean69]

Man in LeBron's defense, the media, fans, the NBA need to stop putting that pressure on the dude. He's just not ready to guide his team to the Chip, let him grow into it. It takes more than just putting a good surrounding cast around him, he still has to study the game and go through tough battles in order to lead his team to the Gold. All of that crowning him the "Chose One", "King James", etc. Now the talk is all about where he is going? Let the nigga breathe. Let him grow, and learn from greats such as Kobe as to how to will your team to greatness.

MAN WHATEVER. HE LOVED THE ATTENTION WHEN SHIT WAS ALL GRAVY IN THE REG SEASON. HE SAYS HIMSELF HE THRIVES OFF PRESSURE. THAT'S HIS FUCKING SLOGAN.

THE MEDIA DIDN'T SCRIBBLE THAT "CHOSEN ONE" TAT ON HIS BACK OF THE FUCKING KING CROWN ON HIS ARM.

LET'S NOT START CRYING FOR HIM NOW, HE'S A BIG BOY. SUCK IT UP BRON.

LIKE ALEXW SAID, $45 MILLION A YEAR.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

lebron makes over 45 million a year to handle that pressure

pressure comes with greatness

he needs to live with it

agreed its his job to deal with this shit and he gets paid a lot of money to do it. i dont feel sorry for lebron he just lost this one thats all there is to it. season done

 

[Spectrum]

man i dislike kobe

but the dude is incredible

even when he played with bums like smush parker

he never played like lebron did

he never had 9 turnovers and shot fucking terribly for 3 fucking games in a row

he was always the best player on the court

you can discredit that, man

he may have stopped shooting but he was proving a point

dude simply has that fire lebron will never have

he has that fire mj had

theyll abandon their kids to beat you

lebron would walk to the ice cream truck and buy the whole neighborhood ice cream

he just doesnt have that killer to make him elite....im sorry

a stat machine doesnt equal greatness

he needs rings

mj never would had a game like that or kobe

im sorry E, but its the truth

I posted an article last night that showed how badly Kobe has played in the playoffs in the past man.

You do realize that Lebron had a triple double and a career playoff high 19 rebounds. The mofo had ONE bad game all playoffs man.


Dont rewrite history as if Kobe has always performed greatly in the playoffs. Those Lakers squad has 3 years straight where they got booted out of the playoffs and Kobe even record a game where he didnt even score 10 points. The only mofo that Ive seen always bring and clearly be the best player on the court even when getting swept was a young Jordan..

I wish Lebron didnt have a killer instinct..and thus my Pistons could have possibly won another title because he fucking drilled us in the playoffs with a bum-ass squad.

 

[RoadRage]

I didn't see your respond to all this shit you was talkin' earlier in the season yet. You said this team was stacked. What happened?

When I was talking about them being stacked, I was referring to the amount of fouls they was able to throw at Howard, getting him into foul trouble at the same time. However, James performance threw a monkey wretch to that plan.
Thats why I say not matter what the match ups look like on paper, the game is played on the court, and this series is a perfect example of that.

 

[unknownsoldier]

Those series with Kobe his team wasn't a championship contender. This year the Cavs were a championship contender, best record & with the best player in the league and they couldn't even get out the second round.

Thats on Lebron.

Exactly, the last 2 years the Cavs have had the best record in the NBA & couldn't get to the ECF Like the Mavs & Suns, they're built for the regular season & LeBron can't get them over the hump.

yall here dude on ESPN.he has a good point.
out of all the teams that will be calling Lebron, Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, Nets, what other team besides the Bulls has good players already suited up that can surround a player like Lebron and win it all?
this is coming from a Bulls fan of course...but im just saying.
unlike Cleveland....Chicago is one of the most popular cities in the US...along with NY, LA, etc.
Big market city. Jordan played here....i mean what else do you need?

I wonder how good a fit would LeBron be without dominating the ball...LeBron still can't consistently shoot jumpers, thereby minimizing his effectiveness without the ball in his hands & with Rose there, he's not controlling the ball as much. Until his mid-range game evolves into a automatic J, he'll be stuck in this rut.

 

[Nobody]

They can legitimately get him. I think they have the best chance, BUT I wonder if he is ready to play under that shadow of MJ. Imagine a season ender like this, but as a Bull? He'll risk tarnishing his legacy if that occurs.

lol @ those old roadrage posts.

man dude can NEVER speak about ball to me, acting like that lineup with Gibson/Parker/Jamison/Hickson/Shaq can handle good teams in the NBA.

Gibson doesn't even see the light of day when Lebron is on the court, much less with him off it, and having to run the point himself!

 

[Spectrum]

I agree with you man, completely.

But the way I look at it, Lebron's the best raw player, Kobe's the best because he gets shit done. You have to have good players to win, I been saying that for the longest, for years on this board.

I'm not mad at lebron at all - but to me? When I consider Lebron I put him on the level of a Shaq - so completely dominant he can beat a team by himself, and not by willing a win like say Kobe, but by pulverizing you to a pulp.

I really think Lebron opened his eyes and said fuck it - management doesn't know shit about building me a team. They could have had Michael Redd or Ray Allen, they get Larry Hughes. They get mo williams after they lose in the finals, they chase after mediocre overachieving players who become underachieving players for the cavs - because the games actually mean something now.

Right now, his arc is following that of KG. I hope he paid attention to what happened to KG though, and puts a stop to it.

Management, coaching sucks, they have shown NO sign of getting better, and they don't have money for a free agent this year, don't have the pieces to trade for one, and if they did who the hell is going to GIVE Cleveland the pieces to pretty much contend year in year out for the next 10 years?


Then the season AFTER next year, they'll have 38 million in contracts BEFORE they have to sign Lebron, and they won't have money even then for a major free agent.

They have NOTHING to offer except an extra 30 mil - and what good is that 30 mil if your team isn't winning shit, and won't win shit for at least 4 years (who's gonna stop Dwight howard? huh?!).

You go to Chicago, you have Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, etc.
You go to Miami and Dwyane Wade is there, you trade Beasley of course.
You go to New Jersey and they have Brook Lopez, Devin Harris (the soon to be traded Devin Harris), possibly John Wall. - and with Joe Johnson's stock dropping they couldget Lebron and Joe Johnson possibly.
You go to New York and you have Gallinari, and any combination of Wade/Stoudemire/Bosh/Boozer/Johnson, and they still have Eddy Curry's valuable trading contract.


The CAVS don't have SHIT.

Yeah man.. I think he is gone... there is nowhere to go with Cleveland...

 

[alexw]

I posted an article last night that showed how badly Kobe has played in the playoffs in the past man.

You do realize that Lebron had a triple double and a career playoff high 19 rebounds. The mofo had ONE bad game all playoffs man.


Dont rewrite history as if Kobe has always performed greatly in the playoffs. Those Lakers squad has 3 years straight where they got booted out of the playoffs and Kobe even record a game where he didnt even score 10 points. The only mofo that Ive seen always bring and clearly be the best player on the court even when getting swept was a young Jordan..

I wish Lebron didnt have a killer instinct..and thus my Pistons could have possibly won another title because he fucking drilled us in the playoffs with a bum-ass squad.

Kobe has 4 rings E

you cant deny that

and the teams Kobe lost with, never had the best record in the league

hell, smush parker was on that team

lebron has three all stars on this team that lost tonight

4 if you include an aging shaq

and when Lebron beat the Pistons, it wasnt killer instinct he caught fire

thats totally different in my eyes

 

[daman200]

It only game 1....... beat boston first!!

you gotta beat the team in front of you first cavs fans!!

you win 60 games twice but dont make the finals

 

[Spectrum]

You're not connecting it right.

Those laker teams were GARBAGE outside of Kobe and Odom.

The Cavs have had the BEST team in the nba TWO straight seasons man.

Also, the situation with LA/PHX and Bos/Cle is the same.

Two players realizing that even if you do get past this round, you don't have the personnel to do shit, and if you do win, management tends to rest on their laurels.

Completely different situation team wise as far as record. Same situation individually speaking.

Ive definitely connect it and Ive bolded the part below to make the point. The Cavs were a beater team those Laker teams..However, the clearly werent the elite team their regular season record made them out to be and that is clear by looking at their regular season and playoff record against the other top 3 teams.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

They can legitimately get him. I think they have the best chance, BUT I wonder if he is ready to play under that shadow of MJ. Imagine a season ender like this, but as a Bull? He'll risk tarnishing his legacy if that occurs.

??????

Did shaq think about wilt and kareem shadow in LA?

did kobe think about Magic West Worthy and Baylor shadow?

nah.....

 

[Nobody]

I posted an article last night that showed how badly Kobe has played in the playoffs in the past man.

You do realize that Lebron had a triple double and a career playoff high 19 rebounds. The mofo had ONE bad game all playoffs man.


Dont rewrite history as if Kobe has always performed greatly in the playoffs. Those Lakers squad has 3 years straight where they got booted out of the playoffs and Kobe even record a game where he didnt even score 10 points. The only mofo that Ive seen always bring and clearly be the best player on the court even when getting swept was a young Jordan..

I wish Lebron didnt have a killer instinct..and thus my Pistons could have possibly won another title because he fucking drilled us in the playoffs with a bum-ass squad.

The one thing Jordan and Lebron never had to do which kobe had to do was play behind the most dominant player ever.

That's no easy feat when you're a player who KNOWS you're that good.

Think about it. If Jordan played with a Prime Shaq, dude would have to pick his spots, he wouldn't be the number 1 option, and would be pissed for the same reasons Kobe was pissed (shaq being lazy, but getting the call ahead of kobe when he wanted).

Lebron would also play behind Shaq as well.

For me, the Kobe that is comparable to Lebron and Jordan started in 04.

 

[unknownsoldier]

I posted an article last night that showed how badly Kobe has played in the playoffs in the past man.

You do realize that Lebron had a triple double and a career playoff high 19 rebounds. The mofo had ONE bad game all playoffs man.


Dont rewrite history as if Kobe has always performed greatly in the playoffs. Those Lakers squad has 3 years straight where they got booted out of the playoffs and Kobe even record a game where he didnt even score 10 points. The only mofo that Ive seen always bring and clearly be the best player on the court even when getting swept was a young Jordan..

I wish Lebron didnt have a killer instinct..and thus my Pistons could have possibly won another title because he fucking drilled us in the playoffs with a bum-ass squad.

The Spurs would've beat ya'll again had you made the finals. Stats are great & all, but they don't tell the story. Look at Paul Pierce tonite, he had a shitty game but his threes in the third quarter extended the game & that big assist to Sheed on the 3, blew it wide open. Filling stats don't always equate greatness or clutch play. Game 3 against the Jazz Kobe went 3-7 in the fourth, but his 3 shots were lead changing shots in final 3 minutes of the game & he had the big assist to Fisher on the 3. LeBron fails in critical moments of the game, which is the difference.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

 

[Goingmark40]

gotta crawl for u can walk....took mj years to get over the hump.hope lebron stays in cleveland. all they need is a new coach and a true point guard

 

[Mt. Yukon]

I think James will give a good look at the Bulls.​

OHHH HELL NO!!! Lebron is great... But not a fit with a PG like Rose, he would single him out. Id much rather have Amare to finish around the rim while keeping Rose as the primary ballhandler and playmaker. Lebron need the ball to be effective... So does Rose, they already have Rose, so they dont need Bron or Wade for that matter either. If not Amare, even though I think hes too soft, Bosh, then Joe Johnson and have him work off Rose as more of a catch a shoot guy. But Bron would fuck up Roses game something awful.

 

[Nobody]

Ive definitely connect it and Ive bolded the part below to make the point. The Cavs were a beater team those Laker teams..However, the clearly werent the elite team their regular season record made them out to be and that is clear by looking at their regular season and playoff record against the other top 3 teams.

I agree. But not everyone thinks like that. So you have to judge it in black and white. Lebron got the MVP cuz they have the best record. So you have to take that away frm them. Best record, yet another flame out.

To me, you can compare them to the D'Antoni suns.

 

[Spectrum]

Kobe has 4 rings E

you cant deny that

and the teams Kobe lost with, never had the best record in the league

hell, smush parker was on that team

lebron has three all stars on this team that lost tonight

4 if you include an aging shaq

and when Lebron beat the Pistons, it wasnt killer instinct he caught fire

thats totally different in my eyes

Im not denying that. I said before this season started he would probably get 5.

I explained the other thing about the best team shit in a previous post.

Come on man.... dont exchange getting hot with killer instinct...dude averaged 40-8-8 against the Magic last year too... that has killer instinct... Vinny Johnson used to catch fire.... Lebron has singledly beaten teams and carried that squad on his back.

Alex..fuck outta here man...Shaq aint not got-damn all star man...shaq hasnt been in his prime in how many years..

 

[Beeiii]

Cleveland radio

http://www.wtam.com/mediaplayer/?station=WTAM-AM&action=listenlive&channel_title=

Good shit fam!!!
I want to hear them kill his ass for the bullshit they placed on the court.

 

[Spectrum]

im out fellas...

 

[Nobody]

??????

Did shaq think about wilt and kareem shadow in LA?

did kobe think about Magic West Worthy and Baylor shadow?

nah.....

Your a bulls fan, and you don't want to think about it, but those don't even compare.

Think about WHEN those guys played in relation to Kobe and Shaq.

Then think about the fact that ANYONE who comes in, that is between 6'4-6'8, is compared to Jordan. EVERY TIME. EVERY GAME. EVERY SHOT.

Jordan is still talked about like hell. Shit people make dedication threads to him still.

I think personally it's something he'll think about. I think the same thing happened with Kobe.

 

[Nobody]

gotta crawl for u can walk....took mj years to get over the hump.hope lebron stays in cleveland. all they need is a new coach and a true point guard

Nigga what? DID YOU WATCH THE SERIES?

They need a new coach, and a POST game.

They need a legitimate second option.

 

[Nobody]

im out fellas...

peace. till tomorrow.

 

[chemist]

I hear Chicago but how is Derrick Rose and Lebron going to work out?

Rose and Lebron need to dominate the ball to be effective.

New Jersey. Get the #1 pick, draft John Wall and trade Devin Harris or #2 pick and draft Turner, maybe get Bosh but if not Boozer at pf.

pg Wall/Harris
sg Trade Harris for a good sg/Turner
sf Lebron
pf Boozer/Bosh
c Lopez

Bench

Yi Jianlian
Courtney Lee

Better than the Cavs right now.

 

[Beeiii]

you gotta beat the team in front of you first cavs fans!!

you win 60 games twice but dont make the finals

I've waiting for you daman200!!!
so i can cut that sign right out of your avatars

 

[alexw]

Im not denying that. I said before this season started he would probably get 5.

I explained the other thing about the best team shit in a previous post.

Come on man.... dont exchange getting hot with killer instinct...dude averaged 40-8-8 against the Magic last year too... that has killer instinct... Vinny Johnson used to catch fire.... Lebron has singledly beaten teams and carried that squad on his back.

Alex..fuck outta here man...Shaq aint not got-damn all star man...shaq hasnt been in his prime in how many years..

Lebron failed E

He fucking failed

His game is lacking and he needs to develop a back to basket game that makes Kobe and Jordan elite

he also needs to develop a mid range jumper

we can go back and forth all day

but Lebrons game has lots of flaws

and he can not be the best until he fixes those flaws

and turning the ball over and shooting so poorly repeatedly isnt a good fucking look

if youre the games best, you make shit happened

how many times did he defer to Varejo and other scrubs in the 4th fucking quarter

that not fucking greatness

dude, in my eyes, he went from the best in the league, to maybe 2 or 3 after this series

dwade brings it everynight injured or not, kobe brings it everynight injured or not, lebron looked disinterested

where is the fucking fire in his eyes, E?