Should Atheists Organize Politically?

[Costanza]

​

I thought of this when watching Maher on Larry King a couple of weeks ago. He mentioned that he gave money for Haiti through Richard Dawkins foundation, which struck me as a wonderful idea.

​

I would never want to give money to one of these religious groups which care about saving souls more than saving lives. Kidnapping orphans for Christ and other repulsive behaviors. "These people don't need bread, they need Bibles!!!"

http://richarddawkinsfoundation.org/​

Carolla frames this badly. The "atheism becoming a religion" common expression is overplayed. There is no doctrine, just a common desire for freedom from religion, indoctrination, and disrespect-- the idea that Maher got at on Larry King that atheists have no morals. (Polls show that Americans would have a greater problem electing an atheist to the presidency than a gay person, to show you how deep-seeded this is.)

There is a common agenda... A limited common agenda. There could never be an atheist political party-- The thought is absurd; you have atheistic liberals, atheistic conservatives, atheistic communists, atheistic anarchists. There is no self-defining common ground once you get away from the limited agenda of not having religion shoved down everyone's throats and not having everyone assumed to be a bad person just because they don't believe a man in the sky created a list of timeless laws by which we must abide.

So my perspective is that atheists cannot organize politically except to a very limited extent but should organize socially, especially in the manner of Richard Dawkins, because it is far superior to religious outreach which almost always has strings attached.

Link to main board discussion: http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?p=7906868

 

[QueEx]

Should Atheists Organize Politically?

Morally or legally ???

Legally, their beliefs are secured under the Constitution, aren't they?

Morally, I don't agree with their views, but I agree that they have the right to not agree, with mine.

QueEx

 

[Costanza]

Morally or legally ???

Legally, their beliefs are secured under the Constitution, aren't they?

Morally, I don't agree with their views, but I agree that they have the right to not agree, with mine.

QueEx

A point I was making in the original post is that the idea of "their views," in a political or moral sense, is a misnomer.

There is no universal Atheistic morality. The fact that we don't submit to the idea of a God-mandated list of rules does not mean we are all immoral, either. That's one of the major motivations of Dawkins in establishing this organization.

 

[Costanza]

A pretty stupid post on the main board was of value to me in providing this definition, which is useful for discussing morality and atheism:

The strictest sense of positive atheism does not entail any specific beliefs outside of disbelief in any deity; as such, atheists can hold any number of spiritual beliefs. For the same reason, atheists can hold a wide variety of ethical beliefs, ranging from the moral universalism of humanism, which holds that a moral code should be applied consistently to all humans, to moral nihilism, which holds that morality is meaningless.

The thread starter, though, went on to argue that atheists who find aspects of religion to be immoral are hypocrites and unqualified to make such a claim:

Attacking the Christian God and accusing him of immorality is immensely problematic for atheists who have no objective standard of morality, yet are quick to judge. We see their inconsistency, even if they don't.

I think the flaw in that logic can be exposed by asking just two simple questions:

if it is not mandated by an all-powerful God, a Christian has no credibility to say that murder or genocide is wrong?

But when your all-powerful God allegedly commands murder and genocide, it is the atheists who are inconsistent???

Not everyone needs an "objective standard" to do a passable job of differentiating between right and wrong. Your own "objective standard," though, can be used against you to prove your "God" and religion to be immoral.

I think the exchange speaks to what I see as an imagined and culturally reinforced notion of atheistic morality.

 

[Costanza]

Bump for "the season."

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Ah Costanza, one of my favorite posters. Always with thought provoking posts.
Stop having a life and come back to the board more often.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

They already do. It is called the Republican and Democratic party.

 

[charlie dark]

No there is no need to as there is no real atheist agenda.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

No there is no need to as there is no real atheist agenda.

Yes there is.

Mainly to abolish all forms of religion.

Some go to great lengths to do it and meet in secret places like bohemium grove

while others just do protests and rallies and make internet videos

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

It should disturb people that a lot of our political leaders worship a statue owl at Bohemian Grove.
These are atheist. They have an agenda.

Ever wonder why places like free masons dont want you discussing your relgion...

 

[charlie dark]

Yes there is.

Mainly to abolish all forms of religion.

Some go to great lengths to do it and meet in secret places like bohemium grove

while others just do protests and rallies and make internet videos

Those dudes are a small minority much like religious zealots...Most atheist don't give a shit about atheists unless the religious zealots are trying to force feed their diatribe on the rest of society.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Those dudes are a small minority much like religious zealots...Most atheist don't give a shit about atheists unless the religious zealots are trying to force feed their diatribe on the rest of society.

No those dudes are not small. You see nixon & ronald regan next to the man standing up.

There are different atheist groups. There is no "National atheist with a global agenda".

You have different type of atheist.

And the people that meet at bohemian grove are atheist.

 

[charlie dark]

No those dudes are not small. You see nixon & ronald regan next to the man standing up.

There are different atheist groups. There is no "National atheist with a global agenda".

You have different type of atheist.

And the people that meet at bohemian grove are atheist.

What are their numbers?

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

What are their numbers?

I dont know because i'm not involved in atheist greek/babylonian Cracka thought.

If you want to know how to fix your skin you ask a dermatologist.

If you want to know about hair cuts you ask a barber.

If you want to know about atheist phone numbers you ask other atheist.

I'm sure i could find out but i care not

 

[charlie dark]

I dont know because i'm not involved in atheist greek/babylonian Cracka thought.

If you want to know how to fix your skin you ask a dermatologist.

If you want to know about hair cuts you ask a barber.

If you want to know about atheist phone numbers you ask other atheist.

I'm sure i could find out but i care not

So like I said... Their numbers a small and they are a minority.
Atheists do not have an agenda!

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

You have some atheist groups that are designed to help people date

Some atheist groups that are designed to argue with christians

Some atheist groups that are designed to promote Science or "scientology"

You have the black atheist of atlanta and their designed to bring blacks into egyptology.

You have free masons who are atheist who are designed to help with a NWO

So i mean you got different atheist groups. And yes they do have an agenda. If they didn't they wouldn't get together and discuss the shit.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

So like I said... Their numbers a small and they are a minority.
Atheists do not have an agenda!

No their numbers are not small.

 

[charlie dark]

No their numbers are not small.

But when I ask you for their numbers you can't give me them....so how do you come to your conclusion?

 

[actinanass]

I think it's called the democratic party...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I think it's called the democratic party...

Lame attempt at humor but it still struck me as funny in an ironic way.

For the life of me I can't figure out what's so pious about insisting on cutting programs that aid the poor, disabled and the elderly while protecting the money of the well off. That kind of piousness makes atheism look very attractive.

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

But when I ask you for their numbers you can't give me them....so how do you come to your conclusion?

I dont know an exact or percise number. I dont know the exact percise number of how many Chinks there are but i know there are a lot of them.

I came to this conclusion simply because of hinduism.

Hinduism is all around the world, but called other things. Paganism=hinduism.

So in essense if people are worshipping a budda shrine, or worshipping a piss stone in mecca, or worshipping the owl horus....it is all paganism.

When you aren't worshipping the one and true God which is YHWH you are indeed an atheist. (Without God)

 

[Tazirai]

If you meet an atheist who tries to induct you into anything remotely related to theist pursuits..egyptology for instance. They are not true atheists. True Atheism approaches a humanistic view. Treat others with respect and remove ALL religion from public affairs. Im an activist

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[charlie dark]

I dont know an exact or percise number. I dont know the exact percise number of how many Chinks there are but i know there are a lot of them.

I came to this conclusion simply because of hinduism.

Hinduism is all around the world, but called other things. Paganism=hinduism.

So in essense if people are worshipping a budda shrine, or worshipping a piss stone in mecca, or worshipping the owl horus....it is all paganism.


When you aren't worshipping the one and true God which is YHWH you are indeed an atheist. (Without God)

Then your research methods are shit!!
Hinduism predominately practiced by Indians not Chinese!!!

Buddhism is the religion of the Chinese!!!

 

[thoughtone]

I think it's called the democratic party...

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Then your research methods are shit!!
Hinduism predominately practiced by Indians not Chinese!!!

Buddhism is the religion of the Chinese!!!

No sir. Mr Charlie Dark. Hinduism is not a specific religion worshipping a specific god.

Hinduism is worship of various gods. And various rituals.

Paganism is:worship of various gods. And various rituals.

Hinduism=paganism.

pagainsim=hinduism.

 

[charlie dark]

No sir. Mr Charlie Dark. Hinduism is not a specific religion worshipping a specific god.

Hinduism is worship of various gods. And various rituals.

Paganism is:worship of various gods. And various rituals.

Hinduism=paganism.

pagainsim=hinduism.

Ok I'm going to walk you through this!!

You claimed atheism as widely practiced by claiming that Hinduism is the religion of the 'Chinks'.
Chinks is a derogatory term for Chinese.
I corrected, you by stating that Hinduism is not practiced by the Chinese, but rather by the Indians of South Asia.

I made no reference to your 'paganism = Hinduism' reference as Hindus would not classify themselves as atheists.
I would think they are best placed to determine whether they are atheists or not rather than an individual struggling to distinguish the difference between the Chinese and Indians...

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Ok I'm going to walk you through this!!

You claimed atheism as widely practiced by claiming that Hinduism is the religion of the 'Chinks'.
Chinks is a derogatory term for Chinese.
I corrected, you by stating that Hinduism is not practiced by the Chinese, but rather by the Indians of South Asia.

I made no reference to your 'paganism = Hinduism' reference as Hindus would not classify themselves as atheists.
I would think they are best placed to determine whether they are atheists or not rather than an individual struggling to distinguish the difference between the Chinese and Indians...

I never said chinese people practice it. I was giving an analogy.....seeing there are like a billion chinks and i dont know exactly how many chinks there are in pop. but i know the world has a lot of chinks.

I was speaking a lot meaning in pop. to get my point across which is "i dont know the exact number of atheist there are in the world but it aint a small number".

And i was basically saying "just like i dont know how many chinks there are i dont know how many atheist there are"

Get it...you can never body me

 

[charlie dark]

I never said chinese people practice it. I was giving an analogy.....seeing there are like a billion chinks and i dont know exactly how many chinks there are in pop. but i know the world has a lot of chinks.

I was speaking a lot meaning in pop. to get my point across which is "i dont know the exact number of atheist there are in the world but it aint a small number".

And i was basically saying "just like i dont know how many chinks there are i dont know how many atheist there are"

Get it...you can never body me

You bodied yourself my friend.

And I quote

"I dont know the exact percise number of how many Chinks there are but i know there are a lot of them.

I came to this conclusion simply because of hinduism.

Hinduism is all around the world, but called other things. Paganism=hinduism.

So in essense if people are worshipping a budda shrine, or worshipping a piss stone in mecca, or worshipping the owl horus....it is all paganism.


When you aren't worshipping the one and true God which is YHWH you are indeed an atheist. (Without God)"


It common knowledge that there are lots of Chinese and it can and has been evidenced.
Where is your evidence of all these vast atheists numbers??

 

[TheDynasty]

Being an Atheist means you don't believe in any form of religion..which is a bit of an oxymoron considering you HAVE to have a belief that someone or something does not exist.

Luciferians or Satanists believe in a god or an assembly of gods..so they're not atheist. Atheists amuse me, however, mainly because they really don't explain WHY they're Atheist...but are usually too involved fighting to defend their unexplained beliefs or require you to explain to them why THEY should believe what they DONT BELIEVE in as far as any organized religious structure or deities... Which is nearly impossible..It's confusion.

 

[charlie dark]

Being an Atheist means you don't believe in any form of religion..which is a bit of an oxymoron considering you HAVE to have a belief that someone or something does not exist.

Luciferians or Satanists believe in a god or an assembly of gods..so they're not atheist. Atheists amuse me, however, mainly because they really don't explain WHY they're Atheist...but are usually too involved fighting to defend their unexplained beliefs or require you to explain to them why THEY should believe what they DONT BELIEVE in as far as any organized religious structure or deities... Which is nearly impossible..It's confusion.

Atheism is the absence of belief.
Principally because there is no evidence to support such belief.
If evidence were found then they would be open to accept it because they are rational logical thinkers.

 

[TheDynasty]

Atheism is the absence of belief.
Principally because there is no evidence to support such belief.
If evidence were found then they would be open to accept it because they are rational logical thinkers.

But it's still a belief correct? You're not automatically born to believe that certain things exist or vice versa. Likewise, logical thought isn't gifted as soon as you drop from the womb..You have to make a conscious decision to believe not to believe in anything. Reason is the foundation of logic and I find most Atheists to be lacking as their belief is not anchored in defense of their own belief but by making other religious sects exhaust themselves by defensively explaining mandates that WILL never be accepted by Atheists because Atheists are people without Reason and therefore without logic.

 

[charlie dark]

But it's still a belief correct? You're not automatically born to believe that certain things exist or vice versa. Likewise, logical thought isn't gifted as soon as you drop from the womb..You have to make a conscious decision to believe not to believe in anything. Reason is the foundation of logic and I find most Atheists to be lacking as their belief is not anchored in defense of their own belief but by making other religious sects exhaust themselves by defensively explaining mandates that WILL never be accepted by Atheists because Atheists are people without Reason and therefore without logic.

Not at all.
It's the absence of believe.
To believe in a deity you have to be actively convinced.
If born and never introduced to the concept you would by default not believe in it.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

yea they should get together and pray for forgiveness....

 

[TheDynasty]

Not at all.
It's the absence of believe.
To believe in a deity you have to be actively convinced.
If born and never introduced to the concept you would by default not believe in it.

Hmm..a good point indeed.

I like this response..now I need to reflect on it and see if I can come back at ya.

 

[QueEx]

A brother takes a few days off and returns to find that a lively discussion broke out !!!

Excellent !!!


But, with regards to this:

I never said chinese people practice it. I was giving an analogy.....seeing there are like a billion chinks and i dont know exactly how many chinks there are in pop. but i know the world has a lot of chinks . . .

Bro, it is my interpretation that the word Chink is a term derogatory of one or more groups of people of Asian descent and, in that regard, is similar to the "N" word which is prohibited on this board. See Rule 3 of the Rules of the Board. Please refrain from using that derogatory term, on this board.

Thanking you in advance . . .