US War Architect Brzezinski on Afghanistan

[lerri]

Russia, and China, to a certain extent, couldn't bust a grape in a food fight. They have been totally pimped and played by the West and they hate the fuck outta it. Yeah they might engage in some low level espionage, maybe arm terrorist, look the other way on certain crimes, but thats about it.

China is the new swiss bank for the elites but I do like how they are investing in Africa they seem to be hedging their view about State with some spiritualism but thats a discussion for another thread.

no homeboy......this is exactly who this is about.....russia,china,sco.....aint no if and or but's about it.that is why they are trying to cut off the mineral's, natural resources that china get's from africa,middle east,central asia and venezuela.in order for the british/us domination and liberal dutch/anglo banking financial system to dominate for another 100 years.why do you think they got obama in the first place. it was to use him as a facelift for africa,islam .so they can go left cover.they are trying to put china in a position to where it would have to depend solely on russia for natural resources and gas.china has over 1 billion people to tend to.that would consume a lot of russia resources and ultimately put them at odds with russia.see the end game play china against russia get rid them both......see........imma have to strongly disagree you in regards to china and russia couldn't bust a grape in a food fight...you kind of got me on that....i dont think any rational person who has knowledge on global security and military analysis would agree with you on that including the pentagon peeps.china and russia together is the worst nightmare scenario for any neo con or liberial hawk.both of them combine together have a nuclear stockpile equal to that of the united states or maybe just a little more.and im not gonna even talk about brigades and convential ground forces advantage(china).(should i dare remind you of what happen to the united states during the korean war.)i dont think united states would ever wanna go through that ordeal ever again.hell dwight eisenhower threaten to use the atomic bomb on china.but boy if he had of.it would have been the worst geopolitical mistake ever.because mao zedong would'nt had any problems getting then soviet leader joseph stalin to annexed the rest of western europe(britian,belgium,denmark,france,west germany,italy,spain,portugal,luxembourg,the netherlands)into the warsaw pact.so in that regards about busting a grape in food fight.i think you really need examine that throughly.how about more like bust a grape and split a banana at the same time.folks imma tell you like this .there is a worldwide plot to bring down the dollar.so the united states have to win this war.because if the united states dont win this war or achieve there miltary,political or ecominic goals that have to do with this war.the united states could but dont quote me be bankrupt and loose some of it's sovergnity all toghether.very crucial decision making coming up for the obama administration and for the united states as a whole.seriously dawg.real talk

 

[rNubb]

no homeboy......this is exactly who this is about.....russia,china,sco.....aint no if and or but's about it.that is why they are trying to cut off the mineral's, natural resources that china get's from africa,middle east,central asia and venezuela.in order for the british/us domination and liberal dutch/anglo banking financial system to dominate for another 100 years.why do you think they got obama in the first place. it was to use him as a facelift for africa,islam .so they can go left cover.they are trying to put china in a position to where it would have to depend solely on russia for natural resources and gas.china has over 1 billion people to tend to.that would consume a lot of russia resources and ultimately put them at odds with russia.see the end game play china against russia get rid them both......see........imma have to strongly disagree you in regards to china and russia couldn't bust a grape in a food fight...you kind of got me on that....i dont think any rational person who has knowledge on global security and military analysis would agree with you on that including the pentagon peeps.china and russia together is the worst nightmare scenario for any neo con or liberial hawk.both of them combine together have a nuclear stockpile equal to that of the united states or maybe just a little more.and im not gonna even talk about brigades and convential ground forces advantage(china).(should i dare remind you of what happen to the united states during the korean war.)i dont think united states would ever wanna go through that ordeal ever again.hell dwight eisenhower threaten to use the atomic bomb on china.but boy if he had of.it would have been the worst geopolitical mistake ever.because mao zedong would'nt had any problems getting then soviet leader joseph stalin to annexed the rest of western europe(britian,belgium,denmark,france,west germany,italy,spain,portugal,luxembourg,the netherlands)into the warsaw pact.so in that regards about busting a grape in food fight.i think you really need examine that throughly.how about more like bust a grape and split a banana at the same time.folks imma tell you like this .there is a worldwide plot to bring down the dollar.so the united states have to win this war.because if the united states dont win this war or achieve there miltary,political or ecominic goals that have to do with this war.the united states could but dont quote me be bankrupt and loose some of it's sovergnity all toghether.very crucial decision making coming up for the obama administration and for the united states as a whole.seriously dawg.real talk

chuuch.

China has been stockpiling metals, minerals and other resources for decades. China is the 1 reason why gas prices have tripled in the last decade. They have a plan to operate independent of the West. Meanwhile we are ever more dependent on China. Do you really think there is no oil and natural gas in China's area?

Russia haven't pawned their nukes. Do you know that Many of those Russian scientists called China home now.

There are more communist in China than democratic folks in the west. The capitol of communism in no longer Moscow. it is Bejing.

 

[rNubb]

Sure you want to stick with that 'son of Mary is the savior of the world' position. It is a natural, physical and scientific impossibility.

Christian and Muslim believers recognize the Son of Mary as the Savior to the World.

This just isn't talked about openly.

What does that have to do with a natural, physical or scientific position?

What are you making reference to with your statement?

 

[Spectrum]

Christian and Muslim believers recognize the Son of Mary as the Savior to the World.

This is wildly incorrect. Muslims believe that Jesus was just one of many prophets. Nothing more..nothing less.

 

[nittie]

no homeboy......this is exactly who this is about.....russia,china,sco.....aint no if and or but's about it.that is why they are trying to cut off the mineral's, natural resources that china get's from africa,middle east,central asia and venezuela.in order for the british/us domination and liberal dutch/anglo banking financial system to dominate for another 100 years.why do you think they got obama in the first place. it was to use him as a facelift for africa,islam .so they can go left cover.they are trying to put china in a position to where it would have to depend solely on russia for natural resources and gas.china has over 1 billion people to tend to.that would consume a lot of russia resources and ultimately put them at odds with russia.see the end game play china against russia get rid them both......see........imma have to strongly disagree you in regards to china and russia couldn't bust a grape in a food fight...you kind of got me on that....i dont think any rational person who has knowledge on global security and military analysis would agree with you on that including the pentagon peeps.china and russia together is the worst nightmare scenario for any neo con or liberial hawk.both of them combine together have a nuclear stockpile equal to that of the united states or maybe just a little more.and im not gonna even talk about brigades and convential ground forces advantage(china).(should i dare remind you of what happen to the united states during the korean war.)i dont think united states would ever wanna go through that ordeal ever again.hell dwight eisenhower threaten to use the atomic bomb on china.but boy if he had of.it would have been the worst geopolitical mistake ever.because mao zedong would'nt had any problems getting then soviet leader joseph stalin to annexed the rest of western europe(britian,belgium,denmark,france,west germany,italy,spain,portugal,luxembourg,the netherlands)into the warsaw pact.so in that regards about busting a grape in food fight.i think you really need examine that throughly.how about more like bust a grape and split a banana at the same time.folks imma tell you like this .there is a worldwide plot to bring down the dollar.so the united states have to win this war.because if the united states dont win this war or achieve there miltary,political or ecominic goals that have to do with this war.the united states could but dont quote me be bankrupt and loose some of it's sovergnity all toghether.very crucial decision making coming up for the obama administration and for the united states as a whole.seriously dawg.real talk

Russia and China have been castrated. They are eunichs. Military warfare is old, archaic. Now if you are saying Eastern forces are working together to marginalize the West then I have to agree. But the only way they can do it is by collapsing our economy and that would lead to a worldwide depression. No one wants that. It is the only reason there hasn't been any other major terrorist attacks on American soil. Those countries are trying to emulate 20th century America and they don't have the slightest idea of how to do it. Now OBL and Latin drug lords are another story, they know how to hit us where it hurts. Through our fears and dependencies.

 

[rNubb]

This is wildly incorrect. Muslims believe that Jesus was just one of many prophets. Nothing more..nothing less.

1. Do Muslims believe that the Son of Mary is to return to earth?

2. What will be the mission of the Son of Mary when he returns?

3. Who will lead Islam and guide the people of the book?

After you answer those 3 questions, then tell me why Jesus is not considered a Savior to the world to a muslim.

What other prophet is due to return to usher in the end of the world?

 

[Spectrum]

1. Do Muslims believe that the Son of Mary is to return to earth?

2. What will be the mission of the Son of Mary when he returns?

3. Who will lead Islam and guide the people of the book?

After you answer those 3 questions, then tell me why Jesus is not considered a Savior to the world to a muslim.

What other prophet is due to return to usher in the end of the world?

You need to understand basic tenets of Islam before speaking about it.

Jesus is only the Messiah in Christianity

let me quote something here that often trips people up

Another title frequently mentioned is al-Masīḥ, which translates to "the Messiah." This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be mortal and without any share in divinity.


Also


In Islam, Jesus is just a prophet like any other prophet..actually not even the most important prophets and actually their main criticism of Christianity is the Trinity and elevating a man to the status of God.

He will be there as a sign of the end days. The Mahdi will be the leader of the people of the Book according to the Quran..not Jesus. Only after the Madhi will Jesus ascend to a higher role.

The real role of Jesus, whom is a Muslim according to Islam, is to bring Christians to Islam...

The Isa of the Quran is not the same as the Jesus of the Bible man...

 

[rNubb]

You need to understand basic tenets of Islam before speaking about it.

Jesus is only the Messiah in Christianity

let me quote something here that often trips people up

Another title frequently mentioned is al-Masīḥ, which translates to "the Messiah." This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be mortal and without any share in divinity.


Also


In Islam, Jesus is just a prophet like any other Prophet..actually not even one of the more important prophets and actually their main criticism of Christianity is the Trinity and elevating a man to the status of God.

He will be there as a sign of the end days. The Mahdi known will be the leader of the people of the Book according to the Quran..not Jesus. Only after the Madhi will Jesus ascend to a higher role

When did I refer to anyone as Messiah?
When did I refer to anyone as being divine?
When did I refter to the Trinity?

You recognize the Son of Mary will be a sign of the end days. What other people will fulfill that role?

You recognize that after the Mahdi, the Son of Mary will ascend to a higher role.
What role with he assume? What will happen to the Mahdi.

Again, what other prophet will return in the end days?

What will be his role in the end days?

See, in a previous post in this thread, I made reference to what isn't openly discussed amongst Christians and Muslims.

The Son of Mary is mentioned in the Quraan more than any other prophet.

I will play nice. I know the answers to the questions that I am asking. What make you suppose that I don't know what I am making reference to? I am not a Christian.

The basic tenets of Islam certainly must include the major players in the end of times.

The basic Islamic tenets states there is the Mahdi and who else?

The Mahdi doesn't usher the People of the Book to Paradise.
Who does?

The Mahdi doesn't defeat the Arch-opponent to the believers.
Who does?

Bruh, take a deep breath and let it out.

The Son of Mary is not just another prophet. Indeed, he is alot more important than most other prophets, inspite of what you have claimed in your statement.

It is ok to admit that Isa is a Savior. He can be a savior and not be a part of the Trinity.

 

[Spectrum]

When did I refer to anyone as Messiah?
When did I refer to anyone as being divine?
When did I refter to the Trinity?

You recognize the Son of Mary will be a sign of the end days. What other people will fulfill that role?

You recognize that after the Mahdi, the Son of Mary will ascend to a higher role.
What role with he assume? What will happen to the Mahdi.

Again, what other prophet will return in the end days?

What will be his role in the end days?

See, in a previous post in this thread, I made reference to what isn't openly discussed amongst Christians and Muslims.

The Son of Mary is mentioned in the Quraan more than any other prophet.

I will play nice. I know the answers to the questions that I am asking. What make you suppose that I don't know what I am making reference to? I am not a Christian.

The basic tenets of Islam certainly must include the major players in the end of times.

The basic Islamic tenets states there is the Mahdi and who else?

The Mahdi doesn't usher the People of the Book to Paradise.
Who does?

The Mahdi doesn't defeat the Arch-opponent to the believers.
Who does?

Bruh, take a deep breath and let it out.

The Son of Mary is not just another prophet. Indeed, he is alot more important than most other prophets, inspite of what you have claimed in your statement.

It is ok to admit that Isa is a Savior. He can be a savior and not be a part of the Trinity.

I dont need to take a deep breath. I am neither Muslim or Christian so I dont have any personal stake in the argument.

When I said the tenets of Islam. I meant it literally as in the list of tents.

Calling Jesus THE SAVIOR is a synonymous with calling him the Messiah. Muslims dont regard him as such in Islam. You are elevating him beyond the scope of his role in Islam. He is an important figure but not the savior in the sense.

The use of that phrase is highly frowned upon in Islam. You may not have meant it as in MESSIAH but that is almost uniliterally what that phrase implies. So maybe the issue is one of semantics.

However, you implied that Jesus returned and become leader of the people of the book but it was not something that happens in some sense of immediate annointment. The Madhi remains the leader of the people of the Book until his death. Only after that is leadership passed over. Jesus then dies ( he does not usher people into paradise. he dies and is buried with the other Caliphs in Medina). But its not like he returned and just became a universal leader. He ruled no differently than the Mahdi or in no greater position. He is just to ascend to the position after the death of the Madhi.

But anyway brah... The use of the word capitalized SAVIOR is what caused the problem with me because that is almost excluvely used to equate with the Messiah which Islam doesnt beleive
in..that was my main issue... anyone..peace.

 

[rNubb]

I dont need to take a deep breath. I am neither Muslim or Christian so I dont have any personal stake in the argument.

When I said the tenets of Islam. I meant it literally as in the list of tents.

Calling Jesus THE SAVIOR is a synonymous with calling him the Messiah. Muslims dont regard him as such in Islam. You are elevating him beyond the scope of his role in Islam. He is an important figure but not the savior in the sense.

The use of that phrase is highly frowned upon in Islam. You may not have meant it as in MESSIAH but that is almost uniliterally what that phrase implies. So maybe the issue is one of semantics.

However, you implied that Jesus returned and become leader of the people of the book but it was not something that happens in some sense of immediate annointment. The Madhi remains the leader of the people of the Book until his death. Only after that is leadership passed over. Jesus then dies ( he does not usher people into paradise. he dies and is buried with the other Caliphs in Medina). But its not like he returned and just became a universal leader. He ruled no differently than the Mahdi or in no greater position. He is just to ascend to the position after the death of the Madhi.

But anyway brah... The use of the word capitalized SAVIOR is what caused the problem with me because that is almost excluvely used to equate with the Messiah which Islam doesnt beleive
in..that was my main issue... anyone..peace.

Ok.

You are not a Muslim.

Ok.

When I used the term savior, you replaced it by the word Messiah.

The 2 terms are not interchangeable. Moreover, I stated the problem with Christianity and Islam is that there are shared principles that are not discussed openly.

How many Christians know that Muslims believe in a 2nd coming of the Son of Mary. How many Christians know that he's so prominent in the end time to Muslim believers?

Well, Muslims don't talk about it. Most Many don't even get know these things.

In keeping with your statement, you demonstrate a thought process shared by many Muslims to devalue or to downplay the significance of the Son of Mary. They are so paranoid about giving props to Nabi Isa.

Many muslims are so overprotective of the Prophet that they have elevated him to an exaggerated status while shunning the Son of Mary. That's not an Islamic thing to do.

Now for the record.

The Quraan refers to the Son of Mary as exalted above other servants of Allah.

The Quraan also refers to the Son of Mary as the Messiah. I repeat. The Messiah.

Regionalism has driven a huge wedge between the believers in the Law Giver, the Anointed One, and the Last Prophet.

 

[Spectrum]

Ok.

You are not a Muslim.

Ok.

When I used the term savior, you replaced it by the word Messiah..

Because you capitalized it. That is almost synonymous with The Messiah.

The 2 terms are not interchangeable. Moreover, I stated the problem with Christianity and Islam is that there are shared principles that are not discussed openly.

When Capitalized like The Savior, it is.

I agree with the second part. However I think it is mainly Christians who dont understand the shared principles of the two.

How many Christians know that Muslims believe in a 2nd coming of the Son of Mary. How many Christians know that he's so prominent in the end time to Muslim believers?

Very few. However, I tend to notice that many Christians dont even really know their own religion that well.. at least the history of it so it is not suprising they dont understand much about other religions.

Well, Muslims don't talk about it. Most Many don't even get know these things.

Most Muslims I know have no issue talking about it. They know the role of Isa and have no problem with discussing it. The issue I have noticed from being involved in these types of discussion is that once you make a statement about Jesus not being anything other than a mere mortal, most Christians literally shut down the discussion from there.

You will rarely meet a Muslim that doesnt know the significance of Isa. I am not even talking about a small minority.. I would be willing to wager that there is a very miniscule amount of muslims that dont understand the significance of Isa. Most muslims tend to have a very strong grasp of the content of the Quran..especially Arab Muslims.. because the Quran is used to teach Arabs Arabic because the Quran is considered the beacon of the proper and most elequent use of Arabic...which is supposedly one of the miracles of Islam because The Prophet was supposedly illiterate. (take into consideration that I am only giving you a tenet of Islam and not proposing that I actually believe in these things)

In keeping with your statement, you demonstrate a thought process shared by many Muslims to devalue or to downplay the significance of the Son of Mary. They are so paranoid about giving props to Nabi Isa.

I didnt demonstrate any thought process. I told you exactly what Isa means to Muslims. I didnt devalue him. I made it clear that he is much more important to Christians than he is to Muslims. And even understanding his importance in Islam, not understanding Arabic, people make mistakes in translation by not understanding that terms like Messiah, etc dont have the same meaning in the Quran.

Also, you stated that Jesus ushered the people to heaven, etc. That was not the case. He is to rule for 40 years and dies.

Again, I think it was you that overplayed his role. I just set the record straight.

Many muslims are so overprotective of the Prophet that they have elevated him to an exaggerated status while shunning the Son of Mary. That's not an Islamic thing to do.

I have never seen a Muslim shun Isa. Actually, when his name is used..they almost often say (peace be onto him) as a sign of respect to display his elevated status in Islam.

Mohammed is the seal of the Prophets in Islam. There is really no way to exaggerate his role. It is not like he was diefied like Jesus was 100s of years after his death later in Christianity.

The Quraan refers to the Son of Mary as exalted above other servants of Allah.

Not above The Prophet.

The Quraan also refers to the Son of Mary as the Messiah. I repeat. The Messiah.

You werent being honest. I told you you meant the Messiah. You didnt read what I posted earlier. let me repost it for people that dont know Arabic and havent read the Quran. You are extrapolating a meaning that doesnt correspend to the Arabic work. Like I said.. semantics.

Another title frequently mentioned is al-Masīḥ, which translates to "the Messiah." This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be mortal and without any share in divinity.

al-Masih in Arabic and The Messiah as used by Christians are semantically not interchangable. The meanings for the two are not the same. That is how people easily cause problems by not understanding the meanings of the words they are using...again..semantics.

 

[rNubb]

Nabi Isa is Al Masih.

I know it and you know it. I didn't make any reference to Isa being more than a mortal or a part of a Godhead. Where is my dishonesty?

Bruh, I didn't seek to challenge your use of the term Al Masih.

You introduced the reference to the discussion. You felt it necessary to qualify my used of the word, Savior, by dealing with the term Al Masih.

I can say that you acted to divert the conversation.

I will say you assumed my position and my perspective and sought to demonstrate your personal knowledge.

You told me that I lacked the information base necessary to fully comprehend the true scope of the term, Al Masih.

An outsider will read our conversation and see that are acting to minimize the significance of Nabi Isa.

See, you want folks to know that Isa is just a prophet. You know this is not a factual statement, based on the words of the Quraan. You words state that Isa is not even a major prophet while Muhammad is The Prophet.

Your previous post makes it clear that Nabi Isa, is not above THE PROPHET.

Seems like you are being protective of the exalted position of the Prophet.

This is the pseudo-Islamic elitism that I am addressing in this thread.

That why I have asked many times, Tell me what other prophet is due to return? Tell me about the significance of Al Masih is the end time events.

You felt it more important to focus on the Mahdi while not stating what Isa's role will continue beyond the scope of the duties of the Mahdi.

It's cool.

Any Christian or other interested party can read this thread and learn that Isa (Jesus) is a very important and significant figure in the salvation of us all. Muslims are not anti-Jesus. Muslims are not anti-Christian.

That's all I intended to convey, because many Christians think that the political activities affecting the east are based on the fulfilment of biblical prophecy. They use their faith to excuse the actions of the West in the dealing with the people in that region of the world based of misrepresentations.

 

[Cristar Mymine]

Jesus isn't real, he's a mythical figure like Dracula and there's no evidence for any of it. Plus, this thread was about US War Architect Brzrezinski on Afghanistan.

Get this crap out of here.

 

[Spectrum]

Any Christian or other interested party can read this thread and learn that Isa (Jesus) is a very important and significant figure in the salvation of us all. Muslims are not anti-Jesus. Muslims are not anti-Christian.

That's all I intended to convey, because many Christians think that the political activities affecting the east are based on the fulfilment of biblical prophecy. They use their faith to excuse the actions of the West in the dealing with the people in that region of the world based of misrepresentations.

I dont have any personal stake in the argument. As stated, I am neither muslim or christian. Nor have a diverted the argument. I dont depend on logical fallacies to argue. I have barely even spoken about The Prophet beyond saying that he was the seal of the prophets according to Islam and the most important prophet according to Islam. That is a tenet of Islam for all muslims...not my personal opinion. It is not an elevation of The Prophet. It is merely stating his very obvious position in Islam.

I am just giving you a factual representation. In terms of my more personal feelings on the issue, I dont think it is worth representing here. As I kind of hinted towards this in the previous post, I dont personally believe in the...let us say.. more fantastical elements of any of these books. However, that is another thread altogether.

The only thing I did was clarify some positions that were semantically...hmmm.. not completely correct. Again, your use of bringing up the term Messiah again was the clear indication of what you meant when you initially mentioned The Savior. That is why I knew what you were implying and despite me pointing out the innaccuracy of using that term in my earlier response, you again brought it up again later (as if to prove a point that I already showed was moot) as if you didnt see the first point I made abougt the terms not meaning the same. Otherwise, why even bring it again that the term the Messiah was used..when I had already pointed out that in Arabic it has a different meaning.

Anyway... later man.. I think we have hijacked this thread enough..

 

[cheyisrameyah]

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[Spectrum]

bump