The path of Martin or Malcolm?
- Thread starter Deacs
- Start date
And turning the other cheek in the face of violence creates
a bunch a dead men FACT!!
And since no nation has been created in peace in the history of MAN, another fact
Or the fact that no revolution or coup without the people behind it ever prospered, another fact
Or the fact of Malcolm X's words when he returned did not denounce violence to gain his means, but the openess to side with any race to gain it, and at the same time tell the world he would kill anyone which threatened his family again since they did firebomb his home. Yet another fact.
I will say this one last time, He never said no to violence and those precepts of self defense didn't die, his hatred for the 'white devil' did.
Was that even worth either one of these posts? These are bullshit posts with nothing added to them.
This tit for tat bull, at least be your namesake and debate with the pair you have. Not saying you may or may not have none, but please, expand your shit.
Can we have a debate on this... at all? any stats? This is to provoke thought, not a knee jerk reaction of something we haven't thought.
Who would you rather deal with, a man who wants change who is trying to do it in a non violent manner or wait and have a war within your borders? Obviously the threat of revolution was enough to bring forward a meaningful negotiation.
As for our image if you allow the government controlled media to dictate image as it sees fit your already lost. We don't need others to telling us how well or poorly we are doing. We need to think for ourselves and know who we are.
My points are obvious
I would rather freedom, and we are not free, we are not treated as equals, and we only gained rights given in the founding papers of this nation, which means we didn't gain anything no other native born citizen had. There is never a peaceful solution for revolution until it is done. It would be different if there was positive change, but that ended with co-mingling with our enemy.
There was no meaningful negotiation, we compromised our character in order to co-habit with them, to be in the same workplace, and shit in the same stalls.
For every war there was a Nubian, we have fought for their causes, been on the battlelines for all this countries wars and treated as fire fodder, and said we are proud, but when it came to our own rights, to gaining our own independence, we skated the fact by sided with holding hands with the people which placed us here in the first place, and continue to do so.
In the founding papers, it even says it is your right to overthrow the government which doesn't represent the Republic, and we have been the backbone of its infrastructure since they realized that they couldn't use our cousins as slaves and came and got us.
You say you don't need others telling you how poorly and how we are doing? Have you looked at the news? at television? listened to the radio? read anything not owned by Nubians but have stories told in Nubian face? Has any of the lies been refuted? When we do so what do they tell you? Do they believe you? What do you tell your children? When they tell the truth to have it said to be lies, what do you say?
We are acting as if we even tried to fight for our rights, to stand on our own past that moment. We have not, and if we have, I supplied documents, documentaries, and historical record in the other thread and the list is continued to grow, refute the knowledge and tell me where oh where did we rebelled against our slave masters. I say this as a Nubian American who loves my country, but I realize one thing, we are still not free or considered equal because we didn't fight for a thing, we compromise.
Your image as a people is not your own, you have no control over it, only you as an individual which means nothing. You could wear the clothes you choose, but is that really a choice made by you or by what you see? Are your likes and dislikes your own or what was told to you? Are the brands you use and appealed to you came from you or others like you?
We talk about being gangsters, we kill each other off, destroy our families, and fight for the minor insults, but once we talk about the biggest scar on us as a people, we let it slide to co-mingle. Any assistance which they grant us is an enhancement to them, while our own efforts to enhance ourselves are seen in the wrong light, and due to its exclusion cries racism, while it is simply being a man of your race like your forbearers.
Last edited:
Since you feel so strongly about this why are you on bgol? You shouldnt be building up a militia and preparing for battle against the U.S. forces. It's just " tough talk" until someone starts leading by example.
I don't think we would have come as far as we did without either one. King was the velvet glove around Malcolm's iron fist. King was the palatable image of black freedom that whites could get used to while Malcolm was the lurking shadow that reminded them what would happen if freedom didn't happen.
(Answer typed on bblackberry)
Why do you take the time to answer with an evasion of the debate and question. I have always made my feelings known as my fathers have made theirs to mine. Yours are just a strong contrast to mine and I refuse to compromise them. Simple as that
Why we are on bgol? Your answer is obvious as your question
And what makes you think this isn't part of any process? You must see your enemy first.
Harriet T said - I could've led more slaves to freedom if they believed they were slaves...
It is harder to talk to our own people on issues like this because we refuse any other decision than the one made. We never rethink decisions.
I never said we were free, neither did I say we are treated as equals. But I can tell you, having lived through the Civil Rights Movement, its better now than it was prior to the movement. That's not saying everything is fine and dandy but it is better. We're not appearing nightly on the news getting our asses kicked, being hosed down, running away from attack dogs and National Guardsmen as we were then. Believe me those videos aired every night.
I don't see how during the negotiations between King and Johnson there was any compromising of our character. We at that time had so little to lose. Hell we had nothing to lose. But as you say to "co-habit with them, to be in the same workplace, and shit in the same stalls," it was a major step forward. Hell I remember segregated restrooms and water fountains and restaurants.
Now as for those news broadcast you watch... Why would you allow the government controlled media to tell dictate to you your worth or lack thereof. They don't ever call you Americans they call you minority. They rarely ever use the term white....ever notice that? Is that term "minority" acceptable to you? Before you say yes look up the word. The FCC won't permit them to call you as they really see you. As far as my image of my people and myself are concerned, I have my own mind and I think for myself.
But I am concerned about you allowing yourself to sucked into what FOX, ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC has to offer as concerning our image. You see your people everyday form your own opinion. The entities I listed don't reflect the black community for what it is. Nor do they sway my thoughts of my people. Hell the only time they show up is when there's been a killing or something negative.
I think your a little confused about the issues. But in the future ask questions as opposed to be being argumentative. I still ask questions.
Ok, I could accept that, but what if it happened the other way around? What if people fell under Malcolm rather than Martin?
DISCLAIMER
For record, this is only debate. We are not going to war with anyone. So no more stupid responses.
This bout sums it up.
Its crazy King was a preacher but chose to turn tha other cheek.In tha bible when one group of people were being persecuted by another.None of tha groups being shitted on turned tha other cheek.Gods instructions to that group was you need to fight them back viciously if you ever want to be free from their dominance.But Black folks reading tha same book chose to go tha other route.
Its crazy King was a preacher but chose to turn tha other cheek.In tha bible when one group of people were being persecuted by another.None of tha groups being shitted on turned tha other cheek.Gods instructions to that group was you need to fight them back viciously if you ever want to be free from their dominance.But Black folks reading tha same book chose to go tha other route.
Compromising to get nothing is compromising your life for nothing.it is a compromise due to the fact we held nothing of value in a negotiation.
-they say american when they are talking about white
-they say AA or black when they address us.
-the term which should be used for both is American, flat.
This is done due to the rulings, but still not considered on equal footing
*afirmative action requires equality, which means still not considered equal footing.
-with the FCC guarding what is called (minus the incidents we protest) is that respect?
On those same news shows, as they shown us being abused by authority, now we are behind the scenes in more ways then physically, in some respects.
Question; what did you receive from the acts of 64 and 65 that you did not have in the constitution and bill of rights or the emancipation proclamation?
All of those rights and the willingness for the government to recognize them? The document and wording granted you liberties given to an American citizen. They made integration easier. They made it harder to be a racist in public, but that is a moot point since you seen history.
But answer this, with downfall of the family as it stood before the co-mingling of them into the civil rights movement?
80% of families had both parents
40% of those families were business owners
During that time, which dropped after the hippies.
Back then, you stood on your own 2 feet as a family, ride or die as it is said today.
With all evidence showing their manipulations since to all our movements! As well as them controlling how they display us.
This is a debate, points are argumentative and still have respect.
that answer was so infantile, it's almost funny
I will knock what you said because you don't know what you are talking about.
All of Malcolm's most powerful self defense statements came AFTER Mecca, not before. You need to look up his speech at the founding rally of the OAAU.
The bible is a contradiction in terms
When I was given this as religion as a child, read the description of Jesus, and seen his picture as white, and my minister said otherwise, I broke from it.
It allowed for our passove acceptance for all of this bull, religion in general. Plus, they all profitted from the slave trade which also didn't bode well with me.
That is both incorrect and correct by context.
He always taught in mutual respect and not accepting anything else otherwise, to gain this by force if required. He never preached non violence, but also never to attack first (although the 500± years could be seen as a declaration of war) before he preached on the precepts of Islam as a NOI, afterwards it was still fundamentaly the same violence if you yourself was violated.
As a practicing muslim, neither time did he not advocate self defense and actions toward revolution, but watered it down AFTER Mecca.
As always, submit your facts of this. I've done mine.
These are the facts:
People who took MLK's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took Malcolm's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took Booker T Washington's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took W.E.B Dubois' message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
Black Panthers have achieved remarkable successes.
Graduates of Historically Black Colleges have achieved success.
Black Graduates of White Colleges have achieved success.
The doers have become successful while the debaters are still debating.
People who took MLK's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took Malcolm's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took Booker T Washington's message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
People who took W.E.B Dubois' message to heart have achieved remarkable successes.
Black Panthers have achieved remarkable successes.
Graduates of Historically Black Colleges have achieved success.
Black Graduates of White Colleges have achieved success.
The doers have become successful while the debaters are still debating.
Evasion? Never, atleast not from me. As I stated before I don't believe that armed conflict with the U.S. is wise for the black american ethnic group. I believe I also stated my reasons why. Suggesting us to battle the government is nothing but a fool's fantasy. However, since you believe in what you say so much...why don't you lead by example? We clearly have different views and ideaologies, and just like you I wont compromise on any.
The world Harriet Tubman lived in is completely different from our own today. Harriet Tubman had no choice or freedom.
Some do, some don't. They have the right to do either.
It is an interesting question. In truth I don't think that it would have gone as far. Like I said before it's totally different image to see a peaceful protest being attacked by the authorities. I think that these images were largely what helped the movement. Just my opinion.
No disrespect to the op but this sentiment sums up the problem with Malcoms and MLK's views. They where both formed from a white perspective. That happens to anyone who goes thru this education system. The european viewpoint brainwashes and leaves adversaries pretty much harmless, if you use their language, math, reasoning, you're fucked. The only way to defeat it is with pure radicalism and neither MLK or Malcom wanted to go that far because it would be suicide for Blacks living in America.
Prove it
This statement is vague and have no basis on any current basis or statistics.this would be something to cease any arguments
It also does not cover the majority of AA today in our current conditions.
How much different since it didn't stop until the signing. MLK was physically humbled and publically humiliated by taking offenses which most of us will never accept.
There were protests like these which met hostility and violence from cac and pig alike, while the Sons of Liberty, KKK had free reign and all rights.they truthfully didn't care for their 'image', and their agencies' policies said otherwise, the policies which I referenced is in my earlier post in the thread.
I will concede that once the idea became popular, or angered became at the appropriate level of sentiment among AA, then it was thought to discuss...
*all answers by blackberry since 1200 hours, shift nearly complete.
Yeah, my only issue was with the second part... Cell phone typing ruins my diction.
What we are supposed to do although is use their rules against them, bypass their standards then point the finger on them...
My issue is our lukewarm responses and what we DO protest to.
Playa.
#1-I havent seen fact nor statistic to DIRECTLY back up a SINGLE point you have made in this thread. First step in engaging in a subjective debate -as this is- is to realize that on some points you have to agree to disagree.
#2-You might be on a Blackberry or whatever but dudes comment that you need to work on your sentence construction, grammar...etc. is mos def on point. Not knocking your arguments -per se- but your posts give off that Boomhauer (from King of the Hill) vibe.
I would put my .02 cents in this matter but its a rehashed debate and Mo-Better has already laid out most of the important points.
1 download documents provided in megaupload links
2 link in signature for history, choose documentary, book lecture at will.
3 don't care of any comments when typing on phone. Don't understand what is typed, don't respond to thread.
I don't the signing would have ever happened if blacks would have gone in the direction that you suggested.
Sorry for the delay, storms and traffic was horrific. Again, I wanted to apologize for the structure of the last posts, furlough is a pain without internet access. Here are the proofs that were supplied through the thread, as well as the African History Books thread with links in my signature. Instead of cleaning up the past, I’ve placed the argument with proofs in statements. You have the books to read, titles to research, documentaries to watch, and my feelings overall of my people via song by Last Poets for overall sentiment.
Basics on situation based on documentaries and historical documents on Revolution argument
[remember, the links were there, please download and pass on]
According to the following sources used in ‘What Black Men Think’ along with historians on documentary [link to documentary]
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BRQYQTOZ
- United States Census numbers from 1960 – 2008
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y68UIWFJ
- The African American Child by Yvette R. Harris, James A. Graham
- The demography of African Americans, 1930-1990 By Samuel H. Preston, Irma T. Elo
Along with required reading with encompasses the project for the tidbits not covered only by numbers in this link.
http://wbmt.wordpress.com/experts-their-works/
BEFORE 1965 when Caucasians co-mingled with Civil Rights movements.
-54% - 75% of African American children resided in both parent households. The number varies with mixed race children since they weren’t included with Caucasians
-Out of the that percentage, roughly half of the families were business owners
**Other than slavery for marriage statistics, this was the highest in African American history
With this, you could verify the current Census trends in the census data, as well as the words of the historians are only plus/minus 2%. The stats cited for
-Unwed African American mothers as well as the rate of unwed African women.
-dropout rate for African American male/female: 14.6% [an increase from 25% historically]
-college enrollment for black male: 35% compared to Caucasian 26%
*The documentary also encompasses the lies told on black men and those who profit.
-Are there more black men in jail or college?
-How many black men pay child support?
-What is the dropout rate for Black men compared to x_x?
-What is the biggest destroyer of black people today?
From 1953 – 1964: where the brunt of the civil rights movement happened without Caucasian influence and self reliance of people. There was murder, assassinations, fire bombing, lynch mobs, KKK, Freedom Riders, Sons of the Confederacy, and COINTELPRO [Counter Intelligence Program]
Their program description could be found here as well as requesting the paper document utilizing the Freedom of Information Act
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7MI2JYSE
COINTELPRO, in a nutshell in relating to African Americans, their job description
The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to
expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or OTHERWISE NEUTRALIZE [emphasis
added] the activities of black nationalist hate-type organizations and
groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and
to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder.
*ramifications of co-mingling our Civil Rights movement with outside intervention, this granted further access to other nefarious organization who previously was only able to attack through white supremacist groups, in which many undercover agents of our intelligence agencies were members of. The deaths of 80% of all ‘Negro Messiahs’ were neutralized, aka, discredit or murdered under the programs directives while law enforcement agencies were ordered to look the other way. In short, name your popular dead black man, they probably did it.
1. Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main function was to discredit and disrupt. Various means to this end are analyzed below.
2. Other forms of deception: The FBI and police also waged psychological warfare from the outside--through bogus publications, forged correspondence, anonymous letters and telephone calls, and similar forms of deceit.
3. Harassment, intimidation and violence: Eviction, job loss, break-ins, vandalism, grand jury subpoenas, false arrests, frame- ups, and physical violence were threatened, instigated or directly employed, in an effort to frighten activists and disrupt their movements. Government agents either concealed their involvement or fabricated a legal pretext. In the case of the Black and Native American movements, these assaults--including outright political assassinations--were so extensive and vicious that they amounted to terrorism on the part of the government.
The fruits of their labor throughout history, confessions of ‘caught’ agents are throughout federal cases, testimony and names blacked out:
A virtual war on the American Indian Movement, ranging from forgery of documents, infiltration of legal defense committees, diversion of funds, intimidation of witnesses and falsification of evidence, to the para-military invasion of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, and the murder of Anna Mae Aquash, Joe Stuntz and countless others;
The Black Panthers came under attack at a time when their work featured free food and health care and community control of schools and police, and when they carried guns only for deterrent and symbolic purposes. It was the terrorism of the FBI and police that eventually provoked the Panthers to retaliate with the armed actions that later were cited to justify their repression.
Ultimately the FBI disclosed six official counterintelligence programs: Communist Party-USA (1956-71); "Groups Seeking Independence for Puerto Rico" (1960-71); Socialist Workers Party (1961-71); "White Hate Groups" (1964-71); "Black Nationalist Hate Groups" (1967-71); and "New Left" (1968- 71).The latter operations hit anti-war, student, and feminist groups.
The "Black Nationalist" caption actually encompassed Martin Luther King and most of the civil rights and Black Power movements. The "white hate" program functioned mainly as a cover for covert aid to the KKK and similar right-wing vigilantes, who were given funds and information, so long as they confined their attacks to COINTELPRO targets. FBI documents also reveal covert action against Native American, Chicano, Phillipine, Arab- American, and other activists, apparently without formal Counterintelligence programs.
-Sabotage of efforts to organize protest demonstrations at the 1972 Republican and Democratic Party conventions. The attempted assassination of San Diego Univ. Prof. Peter Bohmer, by a "Secret Army Organization" of ex-Minutemen formed, subsidized, armed, and protected by the FBI, was a part of these operations
-Concealment of the fact that the witness whose testimony led to the 1972 robbery-murder conviction of Black Panther leader Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt was a paid informer who had worked in the BPP under the direction of the FBI and the Los Angeles Police Department
-Infiltration and disruption of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and prosecution of its national leaders on false charges (Florida, 1971-74)
-Formation and operation of sham political groups such as "Red Star Cadre," in Tampa, Fla., and the New Orleans "Red Collective" (1972-76)
-Mass interrogation of lesbian and feminist activists, threats of subpoenas, jailing of those who refused to cooperate, and disruption of women's health collectives and other projects (Lexington, KY., Hartford and New Haven, Conn., 1975)
-Harassment of the Hispanic Commission of the Episcopal Church and numerous other Puerto Rican and Chicano religious activists and community organizers (Chicago, New York City, Puerto Rico, Colorado and New Mexico, 1977)
-Entrapment and frame-up of militant union leaders (NASCO shipyards, San Diego, 1979)
-Complicity in the murder of socialist labor and community organizers (Greensboro, N.C., 1980)
Here is a documentary showing the actions of the Black Panther Party
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5LVIZLEL
Here is the documentation handed out to anyone who would listen
Huey Talks http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9E98C0CK
Genius Huey Newton http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NIY50MN0
According to Malcolm X documentary ‘Make It Plain’
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HMAGCH9J
These are the words of Gene Roberts, security on the night Malcolm died and the dry run made on his life on the meeting prior, who infiltrated Malcolm’s organization for NYPD
Malcolm X: The COINTELPRO operation against Malcolm X
Attack on your image through media
News: When one person controls the media outlets to expose billions worldwide, and the message is repeated for years, and facts exploited against you
Outfoxed: Rupert Murdock’s war on Journalism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6737097743434902428
Entertainment: Who is the face used for hip hop? Who is the owner of the companies? Who is the main purchaser of music and apparel? Who is left with the blame.
The war was declared since slaves were free. We were merely allowed to exist, and once we became strong as a cohesive unit, developing our own networks, employment, and the dollars within our neighborhoods never leaving due to segregation; the enemy attacked each and every time. Our history depicts an example of true segregation and enterprise with the formation of Black Wallstreet in Oklahoma, and the formation of Atlanta. Each time, they infiltrated, destroyed, and taken over the more lucrative areas.
If you require, we could also delve into the War on drugs as it was flooded in urban centers?
We could look into devastating loan practices which target our neighborhoods?
We could look at the advertisement of narcotics and alcohol in urban centers?
The proliferation of pawn brokers?
Fast food establishments?
Urban gentrification currently taken place in NYC on Atlantic Ave, Empire Ave? Flatbush Ave?
How about in Louisiana after Katrina?
Or the fact that Mississippi received the most financial support than New Orleans after the floods?
How much did you pay for your bling? And how much did the African who excavated got paid?
We have been peaceful since our contact with the Caucasoid as they pillaged and stole from us and it continues to this day. We have our minor skirmishes in history, but only the glaring losses are recorded. In America, once our voices became united and our fist started to pump, they picked off our leaders and watched as the masses in confusion again adopted a stance of fear. I question mostly why did Malcolm died first? Not saying that I wanted Martin to kick whacked, but would our lives be different the other way around? What would happen if it wasn’t a peaceful revolution? What if the peaceful one died first and all that was left was the lion and not the lamb? Instead of the lamb.
The war is constant and unofficial yet unprecedented in its scope. We haven’t discussed our history itself but I hope you check the links again in the African History thread.
Sorry for the length, but you asked for links which my typing on the stupid blackberry didn't come across well. might use my discount to get the iphone or Storm, but the Curve must go.
Basics on situation based on documentaries and historical documents on Revolution argument
[remember, the links were there, please download and pass on]
According to the following sources used in ‘What Black Men Think’ along with historians on documentary [link to documentary]
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BRQYQTOZ
- United States Census numbers from 1960 – 2008
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y68UIWFJ
- The African American Child by Yvette R. Harris, James A. Graham
- The demography of African Americans, 1930-1990 By Samuel H. Preston, Irma T. Elo
Along with required reading with encompasses the project for the tidbits not covered only by numbers in this link.
http://wbmt.wordpress.com/experts-their-works/
BEFORE 1965 when Caucasians co-mingled with Civil Rights movements.
-54% - 75% of African American children resided in both parent households. The number varies with mixed race children since they weren’t included with Caucasians
-Out of the that percentage, roughly half of the families were business owners
**Other than slavery for marriage statistics, this was the highest in African American history
With this, you could verify the current Census trends in the census data, as well as the words of the historians are only plus/minus 2%. The stats cited for
-Unwed African American mothers as well as the rate of unwed African women.
-dropout rate for African American male/female: 14.6% [an increase from 25% historically]
-college enrollment for black male: 35% compared to Caucasian 26%
*The documentary also encompasses the lies told on black men and those who profit.
-Are there more black men in jail or college?
-How many black men pay child support?
-What is the dropout rate for Black men compared to x_x?
-What is the biggest destroyer of black people today?
Lets first start with the bad guy, or the country that declared and unofficial war on African Americans
From 1953 – 1964: where the brunt of the civil rights movement happened without Caucasian influence and self reliance of people. There was murder, assassinations, fire bombing, lynch mobs, KKK, Freedom Riders, Sons of the Confederacy, and COINTELPRO [Counter Intelligence Program]
Their program description could be found here as well as requesting the paper document utilizing the Freedom of Information Act
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7MI2JYSE
COINTELPRO, in a nutshell in relating to African Americans, their job description
The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to
expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or OTHERWISE NEUTRALIZE [emphasis
added] the activities of black nationalist hate-type organizations and
groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and
to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder.
*ramifications of co-mingling our Civil Rights movement with outside intervention, this granted further access to other nefarious organization who previously was only able to attack through white supremacist groups, in which many undercover agents of our intelligence agencies were members of. The deaths of 80% of all ‘Negro Messiahs’ were neutralized, aka, discredit or murdered under the programs directives while law enforcement agencies were ordered to look the other way. In short, name your popular dead black man, they probably did it.
Their main and effective tactics were three fold
1. Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main function was to discredit and disrupt. Various means to this end are analyzed below.
2. Other forms of deception: The FBI and police also waged psychological warfare from the outside--through bogus publications, forged correspondence, anonymous letters and telephone calls, and similar forms of deceit.
3. Harassment, intimidation and violence: Eviction, job loss, break-ins, vandalism, grand jury subpoenas, false arrests, frame- ups, and physical violence were threatened, instigated or directly employed, in an effort to frighten activists and disrupt their movements. Government agents either concealed their involvement or fabricated a legal pretext. In the case of the Black and Native American movements, these assaults--including outright political assassinations--were so extensive and vicious that they amounted to terrorism on the part of the government.
The fruits of their labor throughout history, confessions of ‘caught’ agents are throughout federal cases, testimony and names blacked out:
A virtual war on the American Indian Movement, ranging from forgery of documents, infiltration of legal defense committees, diversion of funds, intimidation of witnesses and falsification of evidence, to the para-military invasion of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, and the murder of Anna Mae Aquash, Joe Stuntz and countless others;
The Black Panthers came under attack at a time when their work featured free food and health care and community control of schools and police, and when they carried guns only for deterrent and symbolic purposes. It was the terrorism of the FBI and police that eventually provoked the Panthers to retaliate with the armed actions that later were cited to justify their repression.
Ultimately the FBI disclosed six official counterintelligence programs: Communist Party-USA (1956-71); "Groups Seeking Independence for Puerto Rico" (1960-71); Socialist Workers Party (1961-71); "White Hate Groups" (1964-71); "Black Nationalist Hate Groups" (1967-71); and "New Left" (1968- 71).The latter operations hit anti-war, student, and feminist groups.
The "Black Nationalist" caption actually encompassed Martin Luther King and most of the civil rights and Black Power movements. The "white hate" program functioned mainly as a cover for covert aid to the KKK and similar right-wing vigilantes, who were given funds and information, so long as they confined their attacks to COINTELPRO targets. FBI documents also reveal covert action against Native American, Chicano, Phillipine, Arab- American, and other activists, apparently without formal Counterintelligence programs.
-Sabotage of efforts to organize protest demonstrations at the 1972 Republican and Democratic Party conventions. The attempted assassination of San Diego Univ. Prof. Peter Bohmer, by a "Secret Army Organization" of ex-Minutemen formed, subsidized, armed, and protected by the FBI, was a part of these operations
-Concealment of the fact that the witness whose testimony led to the 1972 robbery-murder conviction of Black Panther leader Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt was a paid informer who had worked in the BPP under the direction of the FBI and the Los Angeles Police Department
-Infiltration and disruption of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and prosecution of its national leaders on false charges (Florida, 1971-74)
-Formation and operation of sham political groups such as "Red Star Cadre," in Tampa, Fla., and the New Orleans "Red Collective" (1972-76)
-Mass interrogation of lesbian and feminist activists, threats of subpoenas, jailing of those who refused to cooperate, and disruption of women's health collectives and other projects (Lexington, KY., Hartford and New Haven, Conn., 1975)
-Harassment of the Hispanic Commission of the Episcopal Church and numerous other Puerto Rican and Chicano religious activists and community organizers (Chicago, New York City, Puerto Rico, Colorado and New Mexico, 1977)
-Entrapment and frame-up of militant union leaders (NASCO shipyards, San Diego, 1979)
-Complicity in the murder of socialist labor and community organizers (Greensboro, N.C., 1980)
Lets talk about Huey Newton as an example of discredit
Here is a documentary showing the actions of the Black Panther Party
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5LVIZLEL
Here is the documentation handed out to anyone who would listen
Huey Talks http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9E98C0CK
Genius Huey Newton http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NIY50MN0
Malcolm for infiltration of both NOI and Malcolm’s group
According to Malcolm X documentary ‘Make It Plain’
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HMAGCH9J
These are the words of Gene Roberts, security on the night Malcolm died and the dry run made on his life on the meeting prior, who infiltrated Malcolm’s organization for NYPD
Malcolm X: The COINTELPRO operation against Malcolm X
Attack on your image through media
News: When one person controls the media outlets to expose billions worldwide, and the message is repeated for years, and facts exploited against you
Outfoxed: Rupert Murdock’s war on Journalism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6737097743434902428
Entertainment: Who is the face used for hip hop? Who is the owner of the companies? Who is the main purchaser of music and apparel? Who is left with the blame.
The war was declared since slaves were free. We were merely allowed to exist, and once we became strong as a cohesive unit, developing our own networks, employment, and the dollars within our neighborhoods never leaving due to segregation; the enemy attacked each and every time. Our history depicts an example of true segregation and enterprise with the formation of Black Wallstreet in Oklahoma, and the formation of Atlanta. Each time, they infiltrated, destroyed, and taken over the more lucrative areas.
If you require, we could also delve into the War on drugs as it was flooded in urban centers?
We could look into devastating loan practices which target our neighborhoods?
We could look at the advertisement of narcotics and alcohol in urban centers?
The proliferation of pawn brokers?
Fast food establishments?
Urban gentrification currently taken place in NYC on Atlantic Ave, Empire Ave? Flatbush Ave?
How about in Louisiana after Katrina?
Or the fact that Mississippi received the most financial support than New Orleans after the floods?
How much did you pay for your bling? And how much did the African who excavated got paid?
We have been peaceful since our contact with the Caucasoid as they pillaged and stole from us and it continues to this day. We have our minor skirmishes in history, but only the glaring losses are recorded. In America, once our voices became united and our fist started to pump, they picked off our leaders and watched as the masses in confusion again adopted a stance of fear. I question mostly why did Malcolm died first? Not saying that I wanted Martin to kick whacked, but would our lives be different the other way around? What would happen if it wasn’t a peaceful revolution? What if the peaceful one died first and all that was left was the lion and not the lamb? Instead of the lamb.
The war is constant and unofficial yet unprecedented in its scope. We haven’t discussed our history itself but I hope you check the links again in the African History thread.
Sorry for the length, but you asked for links which my typing on the stupid blackberry didn't come across well. might use my discount to get the iphone or Storm, but the Curve must go.
Last edited:
NIGGA PLEASE! Slavery, Welfare, is the 1, 2 punch & crack was the knock out motherfucker where you been! In this situation fuck trying to APPEASE whites. They not the victim look around motherfucker we are, they doing good fucking kkkrooks!
This whole slavery/ reparation debacle really shows how whites are, & how feeble, gullible, weak & enslaved most black’s minds are! Unfortunately, some blacks aren't ready to leave the reservation yet, they live their lives trying to gratify whites & feel they can’t survive without the guidance, (father, child relationship) approval of whites!
When whites are losing, even to amend the wrong they change the rules very quickly to stay in power & have total control, vociferously by law or through public opinion through the media to make the victim feel guilt even though these motherfuckers had things their way & been winning for 400 plus years. Weak pseudo intellectual blacks always fall this mind trick.
Now with any other race its ok for the white man to amend his wrongs to that race by instituting laws & making amend through financial reparations. In those cases the oppressor acknowledges his wrongs & makes payments to the oppressed without 40 questions being ask of how & what they gonna do with the money. Jews didn't have to satisfy whites (even though we didn't have shit to do with that) Indians didn't have to satisfy whites( reparations, casinos) Asian didn't have to satisfy whites(reparations) are still being taken care of to this day by the money. But blacks need to satisfy whites get the fuck out of here with that backwards shit.
While whites didn't satisfy us through inheritance like property, life insurances, land, homes, income-producing real estate through fha & other expensive shit.
Shit that the U.S. government prevented blacks folks from attaining, the ones who build this country, suffered the most due to those subhuman racially unjust laws & are still to this day subjugated to 2nd class citizenship by the government.
But some of you niggaz turn your nose up to reparations like you better or some shit, because you live in the suburbs & don’t want to offend whites at your people expense! FUCK WHITEY MAN, FUCK THEIR FEELINGS AINT NO 1 MAN ABOVE THE CREW SHIT WERE ALL NIGGAZ TO THEM, ANY FUCKING WAY!
Where all in the same fucking boat look around you & look at your people a few nigga rich but most not especially when 95% of our people have NOTHING but a leased car, fake designer clothes, a leased apartment in the burbs or a over priced shack, most are a few pay checks away to living in poverty again!
Even though ever other race had some assistance from the government to get where they're are from your tax dollars where the outcry was then you FUCKING COWARDS! It’s hurt to see my people struggle & swallow in helplessness.
I'm doing ok financially but I'm not wealthy (50 plus million) nor do I know any black folks that are. They’re ONLY NIGGA RICH for 5-10 years then broke the rest!
I am not going to dignify this rant by providing a well thought out counter argument.
And I forgot.
Another documentary is based of the autobio but really displays his speeches better.
Malcolm X His Own Story as it Really Happened 1972.avi
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=640F0BLP
This one shows more pictures of him being followed by them during his travels to Mecca and search for foreign assistance. It also shows Malcolm in both 'fire and brimestone' form and the less subdued once he realized there were also muslim whiteys.
now to return to the comments
Mo-Better
And this assisted you in which way? How exactly is your life better by this? Did the food have more zest or the toilets less filth then the ones in your area? It was the opportunity to be among and stand with your own, with the examples given from statistics, you gained nothing in this respect other than the right to be still sub-standard Americans, but this time with aid from the government. Statistically speaking, our solidarity maintained an healthier lifestyle, our separation made us easier to pick off and isolate, there integration easier and corrosion of OUR values destined.
People left the protest for jobs, the very institutions in place for our upliftment made no strides since then, only exploitation of our people.
Exactly which entities represent you or rather us? Which networks on any regular basis don't perpetrate falsehoods about African Americans, while exploiting singular or minor cases as an epidemic? Which national networks do you speak of reflect positive images of African Americans? Or adjust their views once new numbers submitted by our government are made available? How do you think these misnomers were placed on our people? Do you think these lies of our current conditions as African Americans and then as men are not being attacked? Do you believe that black people thought these innaccuracies on our own then went to the networks to report?
Hell; why didn't that CNN report Black in America, the highest rating show at that time among White Americans show any of these misnomers and continued to sensationalize it?
If you don't believe that you are being attacked indirectly after what is given is one thing, but the FCC makes sure that only officiates their usage of our terms, not what sells stories, and not what your children watch when they see the news. They still use the term African American with the need to isolate you into your sub-class instead of the proper term American, which means they are still calling you sub standard. Lets try that, every time you talk about a white person, say White American, WASP American, Anglo American, Caucasian American, etc.
They have formed your opinion, the ones around you. When you not only take the history away from a people and feed them absolute garbage in school for your history, and never addressing their crimes from slavery until now, it is forgotten argument amongst your youth. While you of that age may remember, the only thing that will be remembered once the baby boomers are gone is what is given in these reports, in these broadcasts, in the history books; while those of this generation enjoy their jobs, their retirement, and silence for the lies told and actions not maintained or even defended.
It is truly harder to make people realize that they are still under attack, as it was during slavery to convince SLAVES that they were indeed enslaved and to escape, or possibly attack. Then again, what do we protest and what results were yielded by them lately? For what have I done; I submitted these same arguments to the news stations [no reply] I protested and handed out DVDs with our materials, I refute lies in the local paper and petition others in national papers. While in NYC, I protested for police brutality and murder up to Sean Bell when I left, including that liar Ms. Twanna Brawley, who was used to discredit the career of Al Sharpton. All this and still work in public service [which I apologize about my tone], this is not to say that this is better than anyone else, because it is truly not enough. I'm satisfied with people raising their children properly, or mentoring a thundercat.
Lastly Mr. Crooks
You back your arguments until they are refuted, otherwise they are 'as-is' statements. After knowledge is brought to light, an adjustment can be made. Problem is, not one of you who said that we are in a better place submitted any documentation. All have submitted points made on slogans garnered from our organizations and those in power.
Anybody following the good intentions and heart of our deceased and many murdered leaders are indeed good in heart, but none better in their plight. All those which do air out the laundry on correct behavior in our current society receive nothing but anger and disdain from the community, but the numbers and actions are still the same and held in the minority.
When Bill Cosby spoke, it was based on the amorale behavior contrasted against his time.
When Dick Gregory spoke, it was against the stances of negativity by those of the Civil Rights movement.
What will be remembered is Cedric the Entertainer saying that Rosa Parks sat her ass down on a bus and that is it. No one mentions the 2 women before her.
Another documentary is based of the autobio but really displays his speeches better.
Malcolm X His Own Story as it Really Happened 1972.avi
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=640F0BLP
This one shows more pictures of him being followed by them during his travels to Mecca and search for foreign assistance. It also shows Malcolm in both 'fire and brimestone' form and the less subdued once he realized there were also muslim whiteys.
now to return to the comments
Mo-Better
And this assisted you in which way? How exactly is your life better by this? Did the food have more zest or the toilets less filth then the ones in your area? It was the opportunity to be among and stand with your own, with the examples given from statistics, you gained nothing in this respect other than the right to be still sub-standard Americans, but this time with aid from the government. Statistically speaking, our solidarity maintained an healthier lifestyle, our separation made us easier to pick off and isolate, there integration easier and corrosion of OUR values destined.
People left the protest for jobs, the very institutions in place for our upliftment made no strides since then, only exploitation of our people.
Exactly which entities represent you or rather us? Which networks on any regular basis don't perpetrate falsehoods about African Americans, while exploiting singular or minor cases as an epidemic? Which national networks do you speak of reflect positive images of African Americans? Or adjust their views once new numbers submitted by our government are made available? How do you think these misnomers were placed on our people? Do you think these lies of our current conditions as African Americans and then as men are not being attacked? Do you believe that black people thought these innaccuracies on our own then went to the networks to report?
Hell; why didn't that CNN report Black in America, the highest rating show at that time among White Americans show any of these misnomers and continued to sensationalize it?
If you don't believe that you are being attacked indirectly after what is given is one thing, but the FCC makes sure that only officiates their usage of our terms, not what sells stories, and not what your children watch when they see the news. They still use the term African American with the need to isolate you into your sub-class instead of the proper term American, which means they are still calling you sub standard. Lets try that, every time you talk about a white person, say White American, WASP American, Anglo American, Caucasian American, etc.
They have formed your opinion, the ones around you. When you not only take the history away from a people and feed them absolute garbage in school for your history, and never addressing their crimes from slavery until now, it is forgotten argument amongst your youth. While you of that age may remember, the only thing that will be remembered once the baby boomers are gone is what is given in these reports, in these broadcasts, in the history books; while those of this generation enjoy their jobs, their retirement, and silence for the lies told and actions not maintained or even defended.
It is truly harder to make people realize that they are still under attack, as it was during slavery to convince SLAVES that they were indeed enslaved and to escape, or possibly attack. Then again, what do we protest and what results were yielded by them lately? For what have I done; I submitted these same arguments to the news stations [no reply] I protested and handed out DVDs with our materials, I refute lies in the local paper and petition others in national papers. While in NYC, I protested for police brutality and murder up to Sean Bell when I left, including that liar Ms. Twanna Brawley, who was used to discredit the career of Al Sharpton. All this and still work in public service [which I apologize about my tone], this is not to say that this is better than anyone else, because it is truly not enough. I'm satisfied with people raising their children properly, or mentoring a thundercat.
Lastly Mr. Crooks
You back your arguments until they are refuted, otherwise they are 'as-is' statements. After knowledge is brought to light, an adjustment can be made. Problem is, not one of you who said that we are in a better place submitted any documentation. All have submitted points made on slogans garnered from our organizations and those in power.
Anybody following the good intentions and heart of our deceased and many murdered leaders are indeed good in heart, but none better in their plight. All those which do air out the laundry on correct behavior in our current society receive nothing but anger and disdain from the community, but the numbers and actions are still the same and held in the minority.
When Bill Cosby spoke, it was based on the amorale behavior contrasted against his time.
When Dick Gregory spoke, it was against the stances of negativity by those of the Civil Rights movement.
What will be remembered is Cedric the Entertainer saying that Rosa Parks sat her ass down on a bus and that is it. No one mentions the 2 women before her.
Last edited:
If I had time this morning I would sit and site you a ton of specific instances where Malcolm advocates the same position on self defense/violence after Mecca as he did before. But I'll site just one:
Check the 4:15 mark and listen until the end. The speech was given about 3 months before Malcolm was killed and is on the topic of "extremism in the pursuiit of liberty." When he was in the NOI Malcolm never said more than a sentence or two about self defense or violence. And it was usually something like, "you should be glad that Mr Muhhamad has given his followers the restrain to not retaliate."
It was only AFTER the NOI that Malcolm could give a 60 minute speech (like the one above) where he really details why American Blacks needed to use the same tactics that were used by Blacks all over the world to get their freedom.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to listen to the the entire Malcolm X Oxford University Debate speech and conclude that he had "softened" his position on the need for violence in the pursuit of freedom.
If Malcolm had been the front runner, national guard and police dogs would still be eating our asses because white people would be too afraid to let us loose.
We are on the same page.
His stance softened due to the fact he included others rather than his own race. In that regard, he softened. Not the use of violence, not the use of self defence, but also other minorities for the cause as well. Before hand, he wouldn't include them. In that terms in the only way he softened, not anything else.
Sorry for the confusion
I think the path of "intergration" was the mistake. We should have moved to stay separate from the whites.
Black Wall Street as an example.
Whenever one of us "made it" our first move was to leave the area where we grew up and move to the suburbs. Taking the knowledge and ability that could uplift our neighborhood with us.
But, as was stated earlier, neither Malcolm or Martin were wrong. We have survived the greatest mass killing, enslavement in the history of humanity. We thrive and achieve.
Black Wall Street as an example.
Whenever one of us "made it" our first move was to leave the area where we grew up and move to the suburbs. Taking the knowledge and ability that could uplift our neighborhood with us.
But, as was stated earlier, neither Malcolm or Martin were wrong. We have survived the greatest mass killing, enslavement in the history of humanity. We thrive and achieve.
Similar threads
