If you want to understand whats going on in the economy, watching this 38 minute video is about as good as it gets: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7382297202053077236
Capitalism hits the fan
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Good drop. Watching now...
Good looking out. 
Time to elevate our knowledge. Good info.
A critique of capitalism from a "marxist" perspective? I mean.... come on... This is like a critique of atheism from a "mon-theist". What do you really expect? and by the way.. I watched the video... the irony is that he talks about the growth of productivity and wages from 1820 to 1970 and that was directly a result of capitalism...and he admits that in his own words. Then he later tries to spin it. The real problem has been the Federal Reserve System..and the FED is the anti-these of capitalism.. and it is a MONOPOLY on the nation's currency and monetary policy.... all this criticisms after 1970 can be directly linked to the FED...
I wish Peter Drucker was still alive and could be in the same room with this cat to completely expose his simplistic arguments.... and his argument at 11:00 applies to less than 1 percent of companies.. this dude is a fraud.
I wish Peter Drucker was still alive and could be in the same room with this cat to completely expose his simplistic arguments.... and his argument at 11:00 applies to less than 1 percent of companies.. this dude is a fraud.
The company that most represents his idea is SEMCO (not silicon valley... this proposal is ANTI-SILICON VALLEY..he's just to dumb to know it.. any tech head who understands the valley would laugh at his basic misunderstanding of the valley..and again.. google has 20 percent time..which they took from 3M.. and he's a GOT_DAMN lie talking about it the greatest achievements in tech came from communism..he doesn't understand the companies or the culture..much less the corporate structure of the companies he is speaking about... GOOGLE is the epitome of the capitalist company and that is exactly the company he was referring to)..this guy is a CLOWN and a revisionist. ) .. . You should read about it.. great company.. actually is located here in Sao Paulo...
but this is not something that needs to be at a governmental level... this is a business decision in terms of the philsophical way to run your business.
all this other talk is just "blah blah blah"... ane he's making class warfare as opposed to talking about economics.. and he proposed NOTHING exceptional here at all.
but this is not something that needs to be at a governmental level... this is a business decision in terms of the philsophical way to run your business.
all this other talk is just "blah blah blah"... ane he's making class warfare as opposed to talking about economics.. and he proposed NOTHING exceptional here at all.
damnnnnnnnnnnnn brothercan you break it down for those who want to know what the fuck is going on???? i mean you dropping science
break it down inlaymen terms what is really going on now and then
hell start a thread
man, I didn't think there were any active Marxists still around. We studied all that stuff in the 70's when it was in vogue. Essentially any business model will work if everybody is on the same page. Ferchrissakes, the Japanese proved that capitalism can work if everybody shares a common cultural identity.
We here in Detroit have seen a simulated marxist "worker" ownership in the form of the auto unions. The are about as much of the problem as the other "stakeholders" in the auto industries. Chrysler once had union membership on its board (post bailout circa 1980) and I am not sure that it worked all that well.
Small collectivist management only works in groups of about 10 or less, and ultimately that would be the best way to do things (hence sci fi characters like 7 of 9). But big ass corporations are something beyond the comprehension of collectivist and marxist thought. Once the workers lose their unique character and become generic, they lose their bargaining chip.
Government's role in it is always a question. I worked in Keynesian economics because it was fresh. But the gov't is probably the slowest and most archaic of business forms and as such cannot stay up with the technology. At best this will be a bandaid, but long term solutions are problemsome...
I think that mandatory government service may be the best solution. Whether it be in the form of military, peace corps or the like, taking young kids out of their comfort zones, to other parts of the world and the country may give them the new perspectives that will create new jobs, new industries and such. Probably will reduce crime in general too.
I feel that we have simply stagnated, and it is time to shake things up otherwise,...
We here in Detroit have seen a simulated marxist "worker" ownership in the form of the auto unions. The are about as much of the problem as the other "stakeholders" in the auto industries. Chrysler once had union membership on its board (post bailout circa 1980) and I am not sure that it worked all that well.
Small collectivist management only works in groups of about 10 or less, and ultimately that would be the best way to do things (hence sci fi characters like 7 of 9). But big ass corporations are something beyond the comprehension of collectivist and marxist thought. Once the workers lose their unique character and become generic, they lose their bargaining chip.
Government's role in it is always a question. I worked in Keynesian economics because it was fresh. But the gov't is probably the slowest and most archaic of business forms and as such cannot stay up with the technology. At best this will be a bandaid, but long term solutions are problemsome...
I think that mandatory government service may be the best solution. Whether it be in the form of military, peace corps or the like, taking young kids out of their comfort zones, to other parts of the world and the country may give them the new perspectives that will create new jobs, new industries and such. Probably will reduce crime in general too.
I feel that we have simply stagnated, and it is time to shake things up otherwise,...
Good drop
But the problem as I see it though, the creation of these small companies doesn't diminish the larger companies; if anything it makes them stronger. Now you have all these smaller companies responsible for all these innovations and all a larger corporation has to do is offer them more money than a larger rival corporation.
Suddenly that once free thinking small company is now under the umbrella (and the scrutiny) of the larger corporation, thus they become part of the problem they may or may not have attempted to solve.
A good example of this is in the video game industry, specifically Electronic Arts (EA). They went around and acquired a ton of smaller companies that were producing great games, watered down the product and over exposed it for the sake of quick profits.
But the problem as I see it though, the creation of these small companies doesn't diminish the larger companies; if anything it makes them stronger. Now you have all these smaller companies responsible for all these innovations and all a larger corporation has to do is offer them more money than a larger rival corporation.
Suddenly that once free thinking small company is now under the umbrella (and the scrutiny) of the larger corporation, thus they become part of the problem they may or may not have attempted to solve.
A good example of this is in the video game industry, specifically Electronic Arts (EA). They went around and acquired a ton of smaller companies that were producing great games, watered down the product and over exposed it for the sake of quick profits.
can you break it down for those who want to know what the fuck is going on???? i mean you dropping science
break it down inlaymen terms what is really going on now and then
hell start a thread
I have already in other threads.. in threads I've started or even other posts Ive commented in... I don't want you to think I'm lazy in the responses... but I don't do the long-winded all-encompassing posts encapsulated all the intricate angles involved in really answering questions like this.
I will come back later and posts some links to some threads I've already started here.
But this guy is a revisionist and CLEARLY doesn't understand the companies or communities he comments on at all. I mean this guy tried to use the google 20 percent rule as saying this is an example of "COMMUNISM" and said that communism is directly responsible for the plethora of innovation of the last 50 years. This is LAUGHABLE at best and the supposition of a biased IDIOT at worst. The guys is clearly not an idiot. He's extremely warped in his view of the world because he views everything through a 'marxist lense".
The 20 percent rule is nothing more than allowing an employee the time to work on non-work related projects. It gives him time to "play" free from the restrictions of the current project(s) he is working on. This concept seeks to provide more of an entrepreneurial culture at large companies so that employees have time to "innovate" or "fail" at things without the criticism of the corporate structure. A lot of Google's innovate features have come from this program. Google took this concept from 3M. It came to be at 3M because an employee tried for years to push through Scotch Tape and his middle-managers kept killing the project.. once the higher level execs saw what happened.. they implemented this concept to give their employees more time to experiment... it's a decades-old concept.. and it has nothing to do with "communism". How he even equates this concept with communism...l much less his concept of "communistic board of directions" is beyond me... it's just another example of a professor blabbing about "businesses" that he knows nothing about.
If this "Economist" couldn't even get this simple concept correct... you need to question the rest of his rant.. because to me that was more of a rant because he provided very little facts in this 35 minute video... but he did provide a lot of very skewed positions.
He properly credited capitalism with the 150 year growth.. he incorrectly stated what the culprit was/is... one has to only look to the creation of the Fed if you want to see the destruction of the average citizen's wealth, savings... and to see the value attack on the dollar.. it starts there.
thank you my brother
anything you got is worth reading.........
can you breakdown alot of these companies better than him as well? if not cool----
good post
Not even in just terms of acquisitions. Look at all the paradigm shifting technology squandered by XEROX. PARC was the beacon of innovation... the ethernet, GUI for PCs, LCD, etc all was pioneered at PARC... Apple and Microsoft built their companies on technology pioneered at Parc.. because the Execs at Xerox didn't realize they were sitting on a gold-mine of paradigm-shifting technology... they created golden gooses and other companies commercialized the technology and kept the golden eggs....
It's just a common symptom of large companies that become too bureaucratic. Some companies don't even waste the time.. Oracle spends very little on R&D and just buys companies when they need something to fill out their portfolio... Cisco to a certain extend bypasses massive R&D efforts as well and uses their investment arm.
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Just did a small post above...not sure if that is what you were talking about?and I tried to already explain his fallacy about innovation/20 percent rule... and his erroneous labeling of that as "communism"..
i wanted more breakdowns of other companies but this is good enough thank you my brother and dont forget them links------------
damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn motorcity homie--- thanks for the knowledge
Not even in terms of acquisitions. Look at all the paradigm shifting technology squandered by XEROX. PARC was the beacon of innovation... the ethernet, GUI for PCs, LCD, etc all was pioneered at PARC... Apple and Microsoft built their companies on technology pioneered at Parc.. because the Execs at Xerox didn't realize they were sitting on a gold-mine of paradigm-shifting technology... they created golden gooses
It's just a common symptom of large companies that become to bureaucratic. Some companies don't even waste the time.. Oracle spends very little on R&D and just buys companies when they need something to fill out their portfolio... Cisco to a certain extend bypasses massive R&D efforts as well and uses their investment arm.
game overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............this brother just killed it.....damn
in the words of rick flair wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
dayum good knowledge drop bro..
I haven't seen the video yet, but I first came into contact with this different philosophies of business when I used to work for Zappos.com where they emphasized a "company culture" and its "core values"... They had a library with a lot of books pushing similar themes-- one was Peak: How Great Companies Get Their Mojo from Maslow by Chip Conley, who ran a successful hotel in San Francisco, and that was where I first heard of SEMCO.
Haven't read about it since, but I just looked it up having remembered it, they "encourage"-- wonder what that means-- employees to "choose their own salaries, set their own hours, and have no job titles."
I'm a little skeptical from my brief personal experience but I haven't read too much about it beyond half of Conley's book... The book also talked about Whole Foods Market, which has "complete transparency of wages and salaries throughout the company, including the fact that the CEO's salary cannot exceed 19 times the average for a full-time employee in the company (as opposed to 170 times for the average big company CEO)" which sounds like it means business....
You used to work for Zappos? Man... fascinating story.. I've been following zappos for years.. they are really getting a lot of exposure now that they've crossed a Billion dollars in revenues annually
I actually have read Semler's book "Maverick".. it's a great read.. and from what I here about his company here in Sao Paulo, they really live out most of the principles he discusses in his book....the key word is "most"..
yeah. I've read about Whole Feed's operational principles as well.
first of all you saying that marxism isn't a valid theoretical framework is absurd. marx is one of the foremost theorists in understanding capitalism. his stuff is brilliant and even if you don't agree with his prescriptions his analysis of capitalism is top notch.
eewwll you are ignoring his core points just to jump on the 20 percent time. the point is small worker owned firmst (software startups) created a ton of value because when you take away the soviet-style bureaucracy of large corporations and have workers own the means of production, value creation explodes.
there is plenty of growth in hybrid state-owned / private economies for instance china today. the growth that occurred in the west happened because of industrialization. hell even stalin had growth under his regime which was totally command and control. you can always show growth when an agrarian society moves to industrialize.
his core point is brilliant i.e. as the us economy's natural rate of growth slowed - due to decreasing opportunities to grow - the us working class started working more hours to maintain its level of consumption and then leveraged up with a lot of debt - provided by its bosses. this explains where we are. since the mid 70s or so real income is stagnant and us workers are wokring longer hours for less money essentially when you adjust for inflation. yes they have more TOYS due to slave labor in the 3rd world. but they life a much worse life than their peers in western europe who have 6+ weeks of vacation, work less hours, are healthier, etc.
what he is saying if you listen is that the firm has to be reengineered to give workers control over their 9 to 5 job, and stop the financial elites from skimming all the benefits and controlling what workers do on the job. citing silicon valley startups as a good model makes sense.
more generally the us working class has to stop being brainwashed. i remember my grandfather who was in a union was very class conscious - they would put a foot up in a scab's ass for real
the rich are waging class war on the working class and people have to stop being fooled by the propaganda system the rich have created. marx talked about controlling the means of production. that can be done simply by working with other people to create small businesses and not letting the financial blood suckers skim the proceeds.
Yeah, I just stumbled into it looking for a bullshit job, I was very surprised by the pay comparatively and it had some nice benefits... They're really trying to branch out now...
Anything specific come to mind that SEMCO doesn't live out?
How can you possibly say Detroit is an example of worker control?!? thats nonsensical. Its hard to imagine a more top-down corporate controlled industry.
The Japanese have suffered incredibly vicious economic problems. Studied a chart of the Nikkei since their bubble popped in the early 90s?
I think mandatory government service is fascism. Fuck that.
We can make an argument about Marxism is another thread. What I said was this: "what do you expect when hearing a criticism of capitalism from a marxist"
You've created a straw man of my argument. I've not made my analysis of marxism here. What I've made is an analysis of the weak argument put forth by this particular economist...who happens to be in support or marxism..two completely different suppositions brah
Again, we can argue Karl Marx in another thread. You didn't post Karl Marx here. You posted a babbling economist who happens to be in support of Marxism... did you not? So are we supposed to analysis the video as an independent statement from that person.. or argue Marxism... however, as I said... I'm not surprised by his comments because what would really expect from a marxist arguing against capitalism.
What is surprising thought is just about how sloppily he put together his argument.. as I , and others, have displayed.
Again, you don't understand what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with "owning" production. If you ask people in this companies, ESPECIALLY software startups (and you are not going to argue with me about software startups because I've run several and employ programmers now)... but for this specific examples like GOOGLE..it has NOTHING to do with financial gain for the most part and more about the freedom to do exciting work and have their work rewarded and USED... programmers go to companies like google because they love the prospect of 100s of millions people using their code (their work). And I'm not just telling you this because I know programmers at Google... they've been relentless studied by consulting firms and this is a standard in the valley.. Shit has very little to do with "owning the means of production" though they do get rewarded with stock options and warrants in many cases. Most programmers can easily go to companies and make more "money". Programmers will choose challenging/rewarding work that solves great problems over money or ownership almost 90 percent of the time.
The economist on this video was NOT talking about China. He was speaking about the U.S...and please find me a country that had growth even remotely comparable to that period of time he discussed. China hasn't even had decades of growth in their current industrial revolution... and the economist on your video started back BEFORE the industrial revolution.
Stalin had one of the worst economic situations on record that directly resulted in over 20 million deaths (because of his disastrous agricultural policy).. PLEASE don't use him to support your supposition,
But this is because of WHAT Malaki? You know the answer because you've stated it yourself in other threads.. it wasn't because of capitalism.. it was because of the creation of the central banking system.. the FED..which is anything but capitalistic...a government sanctioned monopoly over the nation's money supply is NOT capitalism...His hypothesis (if you can call it that)...list symptoms but doesnt diagnose the real problem.
I listened to him. He just plain doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about. I explained it clearly why it didn't make sense and he clearly doesnt' understand programming, programmers, and the corporate structure of software startups to even be commenting on the valley.. his commentary is laughable at best and he would get laughed out of any auditorium in Mountain View, Palo Alto, etc with that nonsense he spouted.
more generally the us working class has to stop being brainwashed. i remember my grandfather who was in a union was very class conscious - they would put a foot up in a scab's ass for real
I agree with the the first sentence... and in this time and age (with the internet) it's really not excuse for people in the U.S. to be brainwashed because it's certainly not , in most cases, because of a lack of access to information...
private companies like publix and others are good places to work for in times like these.