Basketball Heads Lebron vs. Jordan

[concepts25]

Negro Jordan averaged 37 points a game when he was 23...fuck outta here

you jordan stans kill me. so what if jordan averaged 50 points. lebron is taller longer and stronger than jordan was at 23 plus just as fast and maybe more athletic. jordan couldn't have guarded lebron for shit , lebron would have dropped 40 on 23 year old jordan.

you niggas are clowns when it comes to this jordan stuff. telling somebody on this board that "jordan was great but a select few players have the potential to match if not surpass jordan" is like telling a 5 year old boy santa doesn't exist. you niggas dont even wanna begin to entertain the thought that MJ wasn't a direct descendant of jesus.

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

no actually i didn't see that game. i was too busy trying to learn how to walk. That shit was hard at first a niggas balance was all off and shit, i got the hang of it though im good now

 

[styles178]

Man..you know this cats don't know the fucking stats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9phZOuCPDs

 

[D-TOWN REP]

 

[Spectrum]

you jordan stans kill me. so what if jordan averaged 50 points. lebron is taller longer and stronger than jordan was at 23 plus just as fast and maybe more athletic. jordan couldn't have guarded lebron for shit , lebron would have dropped 40 on 23 year old jordan.

you niggas are clowns when it comes to this jordan stuff. telling somebody on this board that "jordan was great but a select few players have the potential to match if not surpass jordan" is like telling a 5 year old boy santa doesn't exist. you niggas dont even wanna begin to entertain the thought that MJ wasn't a direct descendant of jesus.

Jordan was defensive player of the year at 24. Lebron hasnt even made a defensive team. So who would have had the most problems guarding the other person? And they wouldn't have been guarding each other anyone because they don't play the same position. You do realize that right?

And you got-damn dummy.. basketball is not a 1 on 1 sport like Tennis. You think this is about who would win a game of 1 on 1..how old are you?

Your argument would make some sense IF Lebron was a good defensive player. But he's barely a decent defensive player at this point.

You think Lebron could guard Jordan

These are just facts and analysis of the game. You're the stan basing your opinions on nonsense and replying with shit about 5 year olds and Santa

Defend your argument or go to bed.

You said Lebron was the better player @ 23/24 hands down.

The stats don't support your argument. You probably didn't even know the stats did you? You didn't realize that you mentioned the year that Jordan averaged 37 points a game. You probably weren't even old enough to have actually watched Jordan play ball when he was 23/24. How old are you?

The reality of the matter is that Although Lebron is a great player and to me the best in the game right now... his current accomplishments don't put him at pace with Jordan and going forward... he's gonna have to win a lot of hardware to match or surpass Jordan... or any of the other greats like Magic, Bird, Russell, etc.

 

[freshh1]

lol@ nigga said so what like somebody took his toys

 

[Maxxam]

I love Lebrons game. But do you realize at this point in his career (24), Jordan was not only waaaaay more prolific of a scorer than Lebron but he also won a DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD. He was the leagues best scorer and best defensive player at age 24..Lebron's current age.

LEBRON HASN'T EVEN HAD A DEFENSIVE TEAM HONOR YET (1ST OR SECOND)

Jordan was light years ahead of Lebron on the defensive end.. a better scorer... by age 23/24.. Jordan wins HANDS DOWN... and I'm a Lebron James fan.... now you couple that with the fact that Jordan started pretty much was winning titles after year once he hit 27, Lebron has tough metrics to beat...some of yall cats don't realize how thoroughly Jordan dominated the game.... dude just didn't score a lot of points.. he dominated on both sides of the ball and literally had players/teams in fear of him.. dude dominated the game physically and psychologically.

Lebron is an outstanding player but he still has a ways to go...

LBJ isnt better than Jordan yet, I'm not trying to say that... Im saying he will be. Jordan had an advantage going to UNC and learning the games nuances from a hall of fame coach in Dean Smith... Lebron has had to learn on the fly with a poor coach IMO...I personally think the quality of the play has gone down in the last 10-15 yrs because guys come straight to the league without getting a few yrs of polish in college. That said, no other HS to pro player made the transition as smoothly as Lebron. Jordans best years were after his 1st retirement if you ask me, and thats because he was a smarter player. MJ at 33 is better than MJ at 23... you see the same thing with kobe and youll see it with lebron

 

[Spectrum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9phZOuCPDs

Man.. fuck iverson... dude is fucking up my Pistons

 

[Rudey]

LBJ isnt better than Jordan yet, I'm not trying to say that... Im saying he will be. Jordan had an advantage going to UNC and learning the games nuances from a hall of fame coach in Dean Smith... Lebron has had to learn on the fly with a poor coach IMO...I personally think the quality of the play has gone down in the last 10-15 yrs because guys come straight to the league without getting a few yrs of polish in college. That said, no other HS to pro player made the transition as smoothly as Lebron. Jordans best years were after his 1st retirement if you ask me, and thats because he was a smarter player. MJ at 33 is better than MJ at 23... you see the same thing with kobe and youll see it with lebron

First cats brag about Kobe and Lebron making the leap from HS to the NBA and Jordan didn't,now yall want to treat it like the leap was a disadvantage to Lebron's development.

Yall need to make up your minds.

 

[Spectrum]

LBJ isnt better than Jordan yet, I'm not trying to say that... Im saying he will be. Jordan had an advantage going to UNC and learning the games nuances from a hall of fame coach in Dean Smith... Lebron has had to learn on the fly with a poor coach IMO...I personally think the quality of the play has gone down in the last 10-15 yrs because guys come straight to the league without getting a few yrs of polish in college. That said, no other HS to pro player made the transition as smoothly as Lebron. Jordans best years were after his 1st retirement if you ask me, and thats because he was a smarter player. MJ at 33 is better than MJ at 23... you see the same thing with kobe and youll see it with lebron

To me, Lebron has been the only player who could match up with Jordan possibly. I think people get blinded by Kobe because Kobe copied so much of Jordan's came that people get caught up in some of the weak similarities of the two.

However, Lebron's style of play and his just size coupled with his athleticism is kind of a paradigm shifting basketball player. There is not another NBA player that really even remotely compares to him right now in terms of some of the things he can do on the floor as a 6-8 260 point player who can play positions 1-4, can score, rebound, and distribute the ball so well.

There are three real problems with his game though that are limiting factors.

1. Shooting:

His inability to consistently knock down the 18 footer is a problematic
Free throwing shooting is also very problematic.

2. Defense:

He's not a defensive liability but he's got to improve his 1 on 1 defense to the point that he can cause problems on the defensive end and be counted in to get stops late in big games.

3. Big Game/ Big Shots

He showed this in the series against my team (Pistons) but he's got to be a killer in big games and late in games...consistently.

I'm saying he has the possibility... but i wouldn't go as far as saying .."he will"..that's too definitive... and that's not even discussing the intangibles that made guys like Jordan, Magic, and Bird so great... and Lebron still doesn't have all those things yet... but like you said and I agree.. dude is only 24... he is still mad young

 

[concepts25]

Jordan was defensive player of the year at 24. Lebron hasnt even made a defensive team. So who would have had the most problems guarding the other person? And they wouldn't have been guarding each other anyone because they don't play the same position. You do realize that right?

And you got-damn dummy.. basketball is not a 1 on 1 sport like Tennis. You think this is about who would win a game of 1 on 1..how old are you?

Your argument would make some sense IF Lebron was a good defensive player. But he's barely a decent defensive player at this point.

You think Lebron could guard Jordan

These are just facts and analysis of the game. You're the stan basing your opinions on nonsense and replying with shit about 5 year olds and Santa

Defend your argument or go to bed.

You said Lebron was the better player @ 23/24 hands down.

The stats don't support your argument. You probably didn't even know the stats did you? You didn't realize that you mentioned the year that Jordan averaged 37 points a game. You probably weren't even old enough to have actually watched Jordan play ball when he was 23/24. How old are you?

The reality of the matter is that Although Lebron is a great player and to me the best in the game right now... his current accomplishments don't put him at pace with Jordan and going forward... he's gonna have to win a lot of hardware to match or surpass Jordan... or any of the other greats like Magic, Bird, Russell, etc.

I'm 6 nigga , i caught on to this pussy thing early. my dick dont get hard yet so i just look at the pictures these fools post. the hoes at my elementary school don't got ass like that and all the old hoes say I look to much like the dude from malcolm in the middle. i'll have my day in the sun though

please spare that how old are you shit, i know basketball so lets keep this shit 100.

i never said anything about a 1 on 1 game. so please spare me that shit. I said lebron would drop 40 on jordan. let me clarify for you... IN A GAME SETTING 5 ON 5 NBA RULES.

also fuck the stats you can't compare stats from different eras. i made my assumption based on playing style

lebron is one of the strongest players in the league. jordan was wafer thin, jordan wouldn't have been able to keep lebron out the lane. much like tayshaun prince can't keep lebron out the lane. good defender or not jordan wouldn't have been able to contend with lebrons strength and length. the NBA hasn't had anybody near lebron in terms of being a physical specimen.

Also i don't care what awards or whatever jordan won. you niggas kill me with the laundry list of jordan stats.

i don't give a fuck what jordan won in 1987. He was a great player one of the best ever no doubt. one of the best.

 

[Spectrum]

I'm 6 nigga , i caught on to this pussy thing early. my dick dont get hard yet so i just look at the pictures these fools post. the hoes at my elementary school don't got ass like that and all the old hoes say I look to much like the dude from malcolm in the middle. i'll have my day in the sun though

please spare that how old are you shit, i know basketball so lets keep this shit 100.

Exactly. Talking about an era of basketball that you weren't even old enough to watch... maybe not even alive when the said player entered the league.

That within itself doesn't disqualify you. But the fact that I could see that just by observing your post illustrates how inept your understanding of the game really is. You kids today

i never said anything about a 1 on 1 game. so please spare me that shit. I said lebron would drop 40 on jordan. let me clarify for you... IN A GAME SETTING 5 ON 5 NBA RULES.

He would huh? How many 40 point games does Lebron have in a weaker defensive league againgt inferior defensive players...and let's consider Jordan was the defensive player of the year at 24. So he's just gonna drop 40 with ease on one the games best defensive players

Your argument doesn't make sense.

Now let's be gracious and give you the 40 points

Jordan was averaging 37 points a game at 23 in a much better era in terms of defense and the rules were not geared towards high scoring.

now considering that and the fact that lebron is a suspect defensive player. So how many does Jordan drop on Lebron

Fuck outta you kid, your argument is baseless and weak. You cant even support if factually..and even logically, it doesn't add up...especially as a distinctive advantage..for either player for that matter... but the reality of the matter is that Jordan was both better offensively and defensively than Lebron at this point in their careers... so the "evidence" doesnt support you

also fuck the stats you can't compare stats from different eras. i made my assumption based on playing style

lebron is one of the strongest players in the league. jordan was wafer thin, jordan wouldn't have been able to keep lebron out the lane. much like tayshaun prince can't keep lebron out the lane.

Be serious. Prince is the skinniest muthafucka in the league. I'm from Detroit. Jordan was never that skinny and if you ask players who played against Jordan.. even when he was a younger player, that all talked about how strong he was. So this comparison is fallacious and even then..two different types of defensive players...

But the reality of the matter is that Jordan was a 2 and Lebron is 3... they wouldn't be guarding each other anyway..and whatever advantage Lebron has with size.... he's lost it when he has to guard Jordan on the other end in your scenario.. he would foul out before the half

Also i don't care what awards or whatever jordan won. you niggas kill me with the laundry list of jordan stats.

i don't give a fuck what jordan won in 1987. He was a great player one of the best ever no doubt. one of the best.

If you dont care about Stats... scoring averages, defensive stats, title wins, etc.. you probably should stay the fuck out of "greatest player threads" or "comparison threads"

you sound like a boxing "fan" talking about i dont give a fuck about records, KOs, and Titles... fuck how many belts he held in different divisions...

 

[BDR]

If you ask one more stupid ass question you will get

 

[Rudey]

I think the 25 in this nigga's name is a representation of his basketball iq...very low

@ the elementary school comment

 

[BDR]

To me, Lebron has been the only player who could match up with Jordan possibly. I think people get blinded by Kobe because Kobe copied so much of Jordan's came that people get caught up in some of the weak similarities of the two.

However, Lebron's style of play and his just size coupled with his athleticism is kind of a paradigm shifting basketball player. There is not another NBA player that really even remotely compares to him right now in terms of some of the things he can do on the floor as a 6-8 260 point player who can play positions 1-4, can score, rebound, and distribute the ball so well.

There are three real problems with his game though that are limiting factors.

1. Shooting:

His inability to consistently knock down the 18 footer is a problematic
Free throwing shooting is also very problematic.

2. Defense:

He's not a defensive liability but he's got to improve his 1 on 1 defense to the point that he can cause problems on the defensive end and be counted in to get stops late in big games.

3. Big Game/ Big Shots

He showed this in the series against my team (Pistons) but he's got to be a killer in big games and late in games...consistently.

I'm saying he has the possibility... but i wouldn't go as far as saying .."he will"..that's too definitive... and that's not even discussing the intangibles that made guys like Jordan, Magic, and Bird so great... and Lebron still doesn't have all those things yet... but like you said and I agree.. dude is only 24... he is still mad young

Either you have that end game killer instinct or you don't. Jordan had it, Kobe has it, Baron has it, Lebron doesn't have it.

 

[Kryptonite 23]

Jordan, hands down. In his career so far, Lebron has had only one game to make you
say "oh shit!!" ANd that was his game 5 performance versus detriot. Jordan had so many games like that it wasn't even funny Lebron needs a few more years under his belt before we can really begin to answer this question

 

[Spectrum]

Jordan, hands down. In his career so far, Lebron has had only one game to make you
say "oh shit!!" ANd that was his game 5 performance versus detriot. Jordan had so many games like that it wasn't even funny Lebron needs a few more years under his belt before we can really begin to answer this question

Cosign.. he blazed my Pistons that game.

But I've actually been in the damn arena on many occasions to see Jordan do that shit live to my Pistons...and how many times did he do that to the Knicks, Cavs, etc.. Jordan damn near did that shit once or twice a playoff series..

 

[BDR]

Jordan, hands down. In his career so far, Lebron has had only one game to make you
say "oh shit!!" ANd that was his game 5 performance versus detriot. Jordan had so many games like that it wasn't even funny Lebron needs a few more years under his belt before we can really begin to answer this question

Every time Jordan went to the playoffs it was official you would get a couple of games like that from Jordan in every round at that.

Remember when him and Reggie Miller use to go at it

 

[34real]

Jordan was a good player todays players have the edge over him and players of his time,physically the things their lacking is the fundementals of the game.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Not true... hes a better ball handler, has better court vision, faster, quicker more athletic... his first year in the NBA his body was NBA ready, Jordan developed over several years and hit the weights in the late 80s after the Pistons were literally whooping his ass in the playoffs. Lebron is also better at attacking the rim than MJ due to the size/speed/strength combo. People dont ever wanna talk about Jordan 84-90 who was just as selfish as Kobe was at the same age... he learned how to win and play with his teammates. Ninjas act like Jordan won a title every year... its a process. And Jordan dick riders dont want to admit it, but considering LBJs age, its not a matter of whether he'll be better than Jordan, its only a question of when. Add a more consistent jump shot and continue improving the D and hes done. Rings can't be the only factor in determining a players greatness... it its all about the jewelry, Mr. Russell wins that hands down... literally...for those who don't know, he's got 11 rings.

I didn't say he wasn't better player than Jordan @ his age now.... Cuz he probably Is. I said he wasn't on his level. You gotta give this convo a few years minimum.

What record and numbers are you looking at?
The only thing Kobe has over LeBron is that he played a few years with Shaq in his prime.

I'm talking about this years stats cause thats all that matters..Basically.
Kobe is a beast but Lebron and this team look championship bound, especially w/ all the trade rumors. The rest of the team are playing like all-stars....Even Ben Wallace.

I guess Time will tell.

I love Lebrons game. But do you realize at this point in his career (24), Jordan was not only waaaaay more prolific of a scorer than Lebron but he also won a DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD. He was the leagues best scorer and best defensive player at age 24..Lebron's current age.

LEBRON HASN'T EVEN HAD A DEFENSIVE TEAM HONOR YET (1ST OR SECOND)

Jordan was light years ahead of Lebron on the defensive end.. a better scorer... by age 23/24.. Jordan wins HANDS DOWN... and I'm a Lebron James fan.... now you couple that with the fact that Jordan started pretty much was winning titles after year once he hit 27, Lebron has tough metrics to beat...some of yall cats don't realize how thoroughly Jordan dominated the game.... dude just didn't score a lot of points.. he dominated on both sides of the ball and literally had players/teams in fear of him.. dude dominated the game physically and psychologically.

Lebron is an outstanding player but he still has a ways to go...

C/S
But you gotta admit. Lebron Is doing that right now.

 

[RoadRage]

I'm talking about this years stats cause thats all that matters..Basically.

What stats do you think the Lakers or Kobe leading LeBron in?​

 

[Desert Eagle]

What stats do you think the Lakers or Kobe leading LeBron in?​

None....I thought you were arguing that..

We good

 

[Spectrum]

C/S
But you gotta admit. Lebron Is doing that right now.

Lebron is that dude. I've seen him do shit I've never seen anyone do. Man... a couple of weeks ago I see this cat steal the rock, dribble twice, and jump damn near from the free-throw line and dunk it with EASE.. head was still damn near rim-level

but in terms of this game...it's hard to compare people to Jordan.. Jordan didn't have any flaws in his game..especially by the time of the second 3peat... Lebron still has lots of flaws in his game... even crippling flaws like the free-throw shooting... but he still has some time.we'll see how far he gets....he's still very young

 

[BDR]

For LB's height and athleticism he suppose to be doing what he doing. Thats a given. Why ninjas so surprised? I've been saying since 95 when KG came into the league that teams would be looking for bigger versatile players who can play all 5 positions if need be. This isn't nothing new

 

[RoadRage]

None....I thought you were arguing that..

We good

​

 

[Desert Eagle]

Lebron is that dude. I've seen him do shit I've never seen anyone do. Man... a couple of weeks ago I see this cat steal the rock, dribble twice, and jump damn near from the free-throw line and dunk it with EASE.. head was still damn near rim-level

but in terms of this game...it's hard to compare people to Jordan.. Jordan didn't have any flaws in his game..especially by the time of the second 3peat... Lebron still has lots of flaws in his game... even crippling flaws like the free-throw shooting... but he still has some time.we'll see how far he gets....he's still very young

Couldn't have said It any better..

For LB's height and athleticism he suppose to be doing what he doing. Thats a given. Why ninjas so surprised? I've been saying since 95 when KG came into the league that teams would be looking for bigger versatile players who can play all 5 positions if need be. This isn't nothing new

Started before KG.....

 

[BDR]

Couldn't have said It any better..



Started before KG.....

True but it wasn't really catching on like that until the mid 90's real talk, thats when you seen a flood of 6'9 6'10 cats playing the 2,3,and 4 positions at will.

But Magic was definitely the blue print.

 

[Desert Eagle]

True but it wasn't really catching on like that until the mid 90's real talk, thats when you seen a flood of 6'9 6'10 cats playing the 2,3,and 4 positions at will.

But Magic was definitely the blue print.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Nigga Please

 

[Kryptonite 23]

Cosign.. he blazed my Pistons that game.

But I've actually been in the damn arena on many occasions to see Jordan do that shit live to my Pistons...and how many times did he do that to the Knicks, Cavs, etc.. Jordan damn near did that shit once or twice a playoff series..

And don't forget that back then cats was still playing that hardball, not
that touch foul shit they do now in the playoff's. Once the regular season
was over only hard fouls were called Those Bad boys in detriot were trying to break Jordan's legs Even twig players like reggie wouldn't hesitate to lay your ass out

 

[Maxxam]

True but it wasn't really catching on like that until the mid 90's real talk, thats when you seen a flood of 6'9 6'10 cats playing the 2,3,and 4 positions at will.

But Magic was definitely the blue print.

c/s to the fullest... every big man thought he could handle the ball after Magic... Id be at the y and ninjas 6'8" talkin about "ill run the point, and you post up your man."

Im 5'10"

I personally think Magic is the greatest of all time, and his 5 rings in the talent saturated 80's is more impressive than jordans 6 rings in the "All we have to offer the public is Michael Jordan" too much expansion, talent depleted 90's. I still dont believe Jordans best teams could have one a single title in the 80's against Magic's Lakers and Bird's Celtics People who grew up on jordans bulls have no idea how good those teams were in the 80's

 

[Spectrum]

And don't forget that back then cats was still playing that hardball, not
that touch foul shit they do now in the playoff's. Once the regular season
was over only hard fouls were called Those Bad boys in detriot were trying to break Jordan's legs

man..remember the "no layup rule" in the playoffs....especially late in playoffs games.. cats used to get mashed coming to the lane and it wouldn't even be a flagrant. You had to damn near kill a dude to get just more than a personal foul call by the ref...

the Pistons really pushed Jordan to further develop his outside game further and back to the basket/post game...Rodman/Mahorn/Lambeer use to keep Jordan on the floor wincing in pain

 

[Spectrum]

c/s to the fullest... every big man thought he could handle the ball after Magic... Id be at the y and ninjas 6'8" talkin about "ill run the point, and you post up your man."

Im 5'10"

I personally think Magic is the greatest of all time, and his 5 rings in the talent saturated 80's is more impressive than jordans 6 rings in the "All we have to offer the public is Michael Jordan" too much expansion, talent depleted 90's. I still dont believe Jordans best teams could have one a single title in the 80's against Magic's Lakers and Bird's Celtics People who grew up on jordans bulls have no idea how good those teams were in the 80's

Love Magic and Bird... but I can't agree with the talk about the talent level. Jordan beat great teams and also more greatest 50 players of all time than both Bird and Magic. The Lakers often had cakewalks in the West because the conference was so weak at times.. and I watched both the 80s and 90s. I think what you saw in the 80s though were real "teams" that stuck together because the free-agency market wasn't in effect like what happened in the next era ...so you had the Celtics, Lakers, etc who had the same starting lineups for years... great rivalries in the 80s with the Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons championship teams..

jordan's team.. especially the SECOND 3 peat team would have beaten those Laker's showtime teams... and you know why?... because defensively that second 3 peat team..especially the one that won 72 games was one of the best defensive teams in the leagues history..in terms of pure team defense... and that is what would have separated them from those squads... the showtime lakers had a defensive specialist in Cooper and scott wasn't bad... but overall. they weren't good teams defensively... The Bulls would have no problem keeping up with the showtime team offensively... the separation would occur defensively in the bulls favor... that second 3 peat team used to put the fucking clamps on teams and when good offensive teams meet great defensive teams.. the great defensive team usually win... almost in all sports for that matter...

But agree with you that great ball was played in the 80s... the 85-86 Celtics team was sick and probably would have won 70 games if they actually gave a shit about doing it..Bird actually had a game that year where he shot left handed the entire second half because he got "bored"... those cats went 40-1 at home that year...sick

 

[BDR]

Love Magic and Bird... but I can't agree with the talk about the talent level. Jordan beat great teams and also more greatest 50 players of all time than both Bird and Magic. The Lakers often had cakewalks in the West because the conference was so weak at times.. and I watched both the 80s and 90s. I think what you saw in the 80s though were real "teams" that stuck together because the free-agency market wasn't in effect like what happened in the next era ...so you had the Celtics, Lakers, etc who had the same starting lineups for years... great rivalries in the 80s with the Lakers, Celtics, and Pistons championship teams..

jordan's team.. especially the SECOND 3 peat team would have beaten those Laker's showtime teams... and you know why?... because defensively that second 3 peat team..especially the one that won 72 games was one of the best defensive teams in the leagues history..in terms of pure team defense... and that is what would have separated them from those squads... the showtime lakers had a defensive specialist in Cooper and scott wasn't bad... but overall. they weren't good teams defensively... The Bulls would have no problem keeping up with the showtime team offensively... the separation would occur defensively in the bulls favor... that second 3 peat team used to put the fucking clamps on teams and when good offensive teams meet great defensive teams.. the great defensive team usually win... almost in all sports for that matter...

But agree with you that great ball was played in the 80s... the 85-86 Celtics team was sick and probably would have won 70 games if they actually gave a shit about doing it..Bird actually had a game that year where he shot left handed the entire second half because he got "bored"... those cats went 40-1 at home that year...sick

How old are you fam you in here showing your age, not too many people know about that

 

[Spectrum]

How old are you fam you in here showing your age, not too many people know about that

man..i'm not that old really man..i started watching b-ball when I was young..i was a kid that season when Bird did that... that's when those mofo used by beat my pistons every damn year in the playoffs... man... that time when Bird infamously stole that inbound pass from Zeke and passed it to VJ literally almost gave my young ass a fucking heart attack.. I went from we finally gonna beat this mofos to in seconds... was literally holding my chest as a kid because my heart was aching in pain and fell out on the floor