Why Barack Obama can't win for losing...

[4N6]

With the first debate now behind us, I've received quite a few texts and phone calls full of opinions. There was one view that rung loudly on average: Obama's strength (his lack of swagger).

I've noticed something about Obama's campaign that is unprecedented; everybody has an opinion on what Obama should do, or what he's not doing enough of. And it's not about his views and/or perspectives - it's always about how he handles himself. Why can't he just be himself without someone questioning his persona? McCain might be old, however, he never takes flack for how he handles himself as a man.

When Obama wasn't doing attack adds against McCain, people wanted him to do so. People wanted him to prove that he was patriotic, so he had to put on a pin. People wanted for Obama to be more confident, stronger with his initiatives; he does it and now those same people want him to ease off so that he's not referred to as an elitist.

Barack Obama is in an unprecedented position. His Harvard degree versus McCain's battle scars places him in a position to take tougher questions. Obama just can't say that he has a plan; people want him to walk them through his plan. McCain can say that he won't raise taxes and he doesn't have to elaborate unless forced.

You know what I believe it comes down to? Black Intelligence. Bush used the fear factor and a little bit of voter fixing to regain his seat in the White House. Obama's intelligence as a black man is the new fear factor. And you know what is ticking me off? My spell check doesn't even know who Barack Obama is... I had to add his name to my dictionary just to get rid of the red marks.

Barack Obama can't win for losing, yet he is fighting extremely hard to maintain his character. He's being pulled every which way because everybody wants him to be every thing but himself. This man is not Colin Powell, he's not Michael Jordan, he's not MLK, and he's not Chris Rock. He is not a savior; he isn't all things to all people. Obama is a human-being human. Maybe when people can get off his back and let him be himself, then he'll have a fair chance at winning in November...

 

[water]

"Obama's intelligence as a black man is the new fear factor"




Now ask yourself to whom???




Daily Kos Polling Data for September 26, 2008
MCCAIN OBAMA BARR NADER OTHER UND
Overall 43 48 2 2 2 3
MEN 48 42 3 2 2 3
WOMEN 38 54 1 2 2 3
DEM 10 87 0 1 1 1
REP 87 6 2 0 2 3
IND 42 45 4 4 2 3
OTH/REF 42 45 3 4 4 2
WHITE 53 36 3 2 3 3
BLACK 3 94 0 0 0 3
LATINO 27 66 0 2 0 5
OTHER/REF 4 86 0 2 0 8
18-29 32 64 0 1 1 2
30-44 44 45 4 1 3 3
45-59 45 47 2 3 0 3
60+ 49 40 1 3 2 5
NORTHEAST 31 59 2 2 1 5
SOUTH 55 38 2 1 2 2
MIDWEST 41 51 2 2 2 2
WEST 39 50 2 3 2 4



http://www.dailykos.com/dailypoll/2008/09/26

 

[geechiedan]

and thats..

 

[DJCandle]

There was one view that rung loudly on average: Obama's strength (his lack of swagger).

I've noticed something about Obama's campaign that is unprecedented; everybody has an opinion on what Obama should do, or what he's not doing enough of. And it's not about his views and/or perspectives - it's always about how he handles himself. Why can't he just be himself without someone questioning his persona? McCain might be old, however, he never takes flack for how he handles himself as a man.

When Obama wasn't doing attack adds against McCain, people wanted him to do so. People wanted him to prove that he was patriotic, so he had to put on a pin. People wanted for Obama to be more confident, stronger with his initiatives; he does it and now those same people want him to ease off so that he's not referred to as an elitist.

In answer to what was highlighted, it is because there are too many insecure people who are uncomfortable in their own skin. Follow me for a second.

John McCain, while incoherent, defensive, and flaud, displays aggressiveness, which comes off as certainty to most people rather than diplomacy. And that goes a long way with the American people.

Why you might ask? Well I believe it's because the American people are the exact same way. It's the old adage, "the loudest one, is the weakest one." People gravitate towards John McCain because he exhibits strength, and the whole P.O.W. bit plays right into his hands. He may sound idiotic, but an idiot can relate, and sad to say, this country is full of them.

Obama however, takes the cooler heads prevail stance. Whilst it makes all the sense in the world, and is clearly the better option, it doesn't resonate as loudly. This is why he gets shitted on for his "approach." It's not loud, but assertive. Not dominating, but certain. This becomes confusing for the average nit wit, and we all know too well how fear controls people.

I refer to Cesar Milans way of teaching animals to behave. Calm assertive is the right way. Take your time, focus, and without aggression, your dog will be well behaved.

Now go into the hood, and see how many well behaved dogs you find...

 

[BoyJupiter]

Bruh,

I found myself thinking along the same lines while watching the reactions on the debate. I even tried to put it in the context of how we view African American males.

I really think it reflects elements of the Black tax. If Barack carries himself confidently, then he may be called TOO COCKY. If he appears subtle or humble, then he is being TOO WEAK.

I believe this view/perception has been common for intelligent Black males. If we appear somewhat humble, then we NEED TO STAND UP FOR OURSELVES. When we stand up for ourselves, often it is misinterpreted as being TOO AGGRESSIVE.

Many will say that Barack was not strong enough in the debate, but IF HE WOULD HAVE POSTURED HIMSELF LIKE MCCAIN DID THROUGHOUT THE DEBATE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED AN UTTER FAILURE.

This is me venting, of course. Perhaps it isn't that deep. However, it does make me think about my position in corporate America, where I feel like I have to straddle a delicate balance to be perceived as confident yet non-threatening. This, often, boils down to my use of words moreso than my tone...which I see as a means for Obama as well.

 

[AristotlesOwn]

I made a similar point several times in the debate post earlier this evening. Everyone has an opinion on how he should conduct himself. It's cool that people want him to win, but to step on his personal principles or change his demeanor to do it...nah at this point it would be fake anyway. Staying true to himself has gotten him this far, he needs to keep doing what he's doing by stating the facts and keeping a cool demeanor.

As black men in America and abroad, we know how we have to conduct ourselves until we make it.

Think about the first job you had and how you had to act during an interview....even moreso because you were black. Think about how much harder you have to work than Bill or Dick to get a raise or get hired. Obama knows the game.

 

[4N6]

In answer to what was highlighted, it is because there are too many insecure people who are uncomfortable in their own skin. Follow me for a second.

John McCain, while incoherent, defensive, and flaud, displays aggressiveness, which comes off as certainty to most people rather than diplomacy. And that goes a long way with the American people.

Why you might ask? Well I believe it's because the American people are the exact same way. It's the old adage, "the loudest one, is the weakest one." People gravitate towards John McCain because he exhibits strength, and the whole P.O.W. bit plays right into his hands. He may sound idiotic, but an idiot can relate, and sad to say, this country is full of them.

Obama however, takes the cooler heads prevail stance. Whilst it makes all the sense in the world, and is clearly the better option, it doesn't resonate as loudly. This is why he gets shitted on for his "approach." It's not loud, but assertive. Not dominating, but certain. This becomes confusing for the average nit wit, and we all know too well how fear controls people.

I refer to Cesar Milans way of teaching animals to behave. Calm assertive is the right way. Take your time, focus, and without aggression, your dog will be well behaved.

Now go into the hood, and see how many well behaved dogs you find...

You really put the arrow in the center on the bullseye with these statements.

And as for reply with the polls. I've been voting for the past 12 years and have never been polled about my views leading up to anything. Now I don't know the criteria to being a part of one of these 'polls'... maybe I should answer my phone at dinner time when *unknown caller* appears. But there is no way that hey are grabbing efficient information that matters from any of these polls, even when Obama is winning them.

The only poll that matters is on November 4th... these polls with McCain in the lead helps to manipulate the voting public. The media is surprised that McCain still leads in any poll. NEWS JUST IN... Registered Republicans far outweigh the number of Registered Democrats. Why do you think that Democrats often lead in young fresh voters; because without them, chances of winning are slim, no matter what this country is going through.

 

[water]

Bruh,

I found myself thinking along the same lines while watching the reactions on the debate. I even tried to put it in the context of how we view African American males.

I really think it reflects elements of the Black tax. Barack carries himself confidentally, and he may be called TOO COCKY. If he appears subtle or humble, then he is being TOO WEAK.

I believe this view/perceptions has been a common for intelligent Black males. If we appear somewhat humble, then we NEED TO STAND UP FOR OURSELVES. When we stand up for ourselves, often it is mis-interpreted as being TOO AGGRESSIVE.

Many will say that Barack was not strong enough in the debate, but IF HE WOULD HAVE POSTURED HIMSELF LIKE MCCAIN DID THROUGHOUT THE DEBATE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED AN UTTER FAILURE.

This is me venting, of course. Perhaps it isn't that deep. However, it does make me think about my position in corporate America, where I feel like I have to straddle a delicate balance to be perceived as confident yet non-threatening. This, often, boils down to my use of words moreso than my tone...which I see as a means for Obama as well.

Very good analysis linking it to corporate America.

I see it with other black co-workers (professionals) but at teh same time I don't experience it because i am an immigrant.

whites tend to give a pass to immigrants even if we are black in the hope that we would jump on their side, the odds being that we don't know the history here. The pass is NOT to assist us but more to assauge their guilt by making it seem that African Americans are inherently fucked up. Some immigrants play along until they get burned and some like me dead that shit very early.

I put them in their place immediately, very little consequences for me so far.........

It might also be a struggle for American born blacks to juggle that balance because the education system here tends to condition you to not even think about rocking the boat and overly concerned about "image".


Just my $0.02

 

[Blu Diablo]

I appreciate this thread because it echoes points I have also stated on this board

This is a perfect example of how I've seen dude move since the primaries and why I get annoyed when the reactionary Obama supporters get uptight about something.

Obama is not a quick to react because he was caught of guard type of cat. We've seen in instance after instance where there is a story, he let's it run for a day or two, then he comes back with the perfect response..every muthafuckin time. That's not luck folks, that's aptitude.

It's kinda like doin ya homework in school, if you know the material the test simply doesn't surprise you, you may get something worded a little different but you know the shit either way.

..and to piggy back on what Laughing Man said, shit I have a pretty decent IQ but I really want my President to be smarter than me otherwise give me the $400K and let my ass telecommute.

Barack isn't the "I'm right because I'm louder" type that so many seem to want. Consistently he has let his opponents make the ass of themselves then simply and consistently position himself as the better choice.

Again, Bush was a loud talkin', full of machismo, act before thinking type and we see where that has gotten the country.

 

[tapdatass]

it boils down to race obviously and alot of people are steering clear of that but in the back of our heads we know its true..... we got cats supportin obama but are they actually gonna vote..... i think he black vote is the deciding factor here.....its not just getting out there and voting...... we got all these "crab ******s" hatin on obama cuz he's not like chris rock in "head of state" yeah funny movie but it would never happen that way...... too many damn close minded dullards out there that dont realize that....... we are so hard on our own people...... and then after we have fought tooth and nail against our own people for a scrap of respect and dignity....... we gotta go up against white people.......


if obama got loud with mccain and tried to out talk him you know he would be labeled as an "angry black man", those with half an IQ and any type of intelligence should know that..... he played it respectfully and tactfully like any gentleman should...... tactics from mccain were disrespectful and screamed desperation..... mccain aint dumb, in a subtle way tried to push barrack's buttons....but it didnt work.... the moderator was a bitch btw...

as far as mccain exuding strength......i dont see it..... he's an old cripple man.....who was a POW 90 years ago..... of course the senior vote is in the bag...... and seniors have the highest voter turnout percentage wise.....

 

[sean69]

The White House.
Not an accidental name. Consider the ethonographic and cultural symbolisms associated with the color white.

The Black Tax.
I don't even have to say shit here.

Time for some algebra.

(a + b) - c = 0

White House = a
Black Tax = b
Solve for c ...

 

[BoyJupiter]

Very good analysis linking it to corporate America.

I see it with other black co-workers (professionals) but at teh same time I don't experience it because i am an immigrant.

whites tend to give a pass to immigrants even if we are black in the hope that we would jump on their side, the odds being that we don't know the history here. The pass is NOT to assist us but more to assauge their guilt by making it seem that African Americans are inherently fucked up. Some immigrants play along until they get burned and some like me dead that shit very early.

I put them in their place immediately, very little consequences for me so far.........

It might also be a struggle for American born blacks to juggle that balance because the education system here tends to condition you to not even think about rocking the boat and overly concerned about "image".


Just my $0.02

I would have to agree. I've noticed the concern over "image" especially amongst my elder Black co-workers.

I think you touched on something there. While looking sharp is essential to success, I do feel that some of my elder Black co-workers place entirely too much emphasis on that simple truth. This, as I have seen, leads to a lack of of development in other areas like communication skills or business resolution skills. This, of course, allows the company to pigeon-hole them in a way that justifies the "passing over" of a promotion.

I do believe it is harder for an American born Black male to avoid being pigeon-holed than most other races. This is why Obama's story is so much greater than McCain's (not to diminish his achievements). It's the silent struggle that every intelligent Black man carries in a predominately White America...to succeed in this arena is to have long ago triumphed that internal arena intrinsic to most Black males.

 

[water]

I would have to agree. I've noticed the concern over "image" especially amongst my elder Black co-workers.

I think you touched on something there. While looking sharp is essential to success, I do feel that some of my elder Black co-workers place entirely too much emphasis on that simple truth. This, as I have seen, leads to a lack of of development in other areas like communication skills or business resolution skills. This, of course, allows the company to pigeon-hole them in a way that justifies the "passing over" of a promotion.

I do believe it is harder for an American born Black male to avoid being pigeon-holed than most other races. This is why Obama's story is so much greater than McCain's (not to diminish his achievements). It's the silent struggle that every intelligent Black man carries in a predominately White America...to succeed in this arena is to have long ago triumphed that internal arena intrinsic to most Black males.

Corporate America loves style over substance EXCEPT when the shit hits the fan.

Then they run for the black guy....

The key is knowing your worth.

I wake up everyday striving and knowing i am one of the best at my chosen field.
However as long as i am using the next man's ball, he is free to take it and go home when he feels like it.

Thus I am making moves to become that business owner who writes off expenses like cars instead of paying for it out of my pocket, who pays 15% taxes (capital gain) and who hires people I am "comfortable" with.......

Some of us get carried away with becoming too comfortable just working (i.e. on the bench at halftime) and stay there for the 2nd half..........

 

[White Lurker]

I know white people don't like it when blacks are cocky on any level. "Oh..just because he is intelligent he thinks he knows everything he is cocky ", Insert any black athlete's name and "I hate that he is cocky" that's why a segment of whites can't watch the NBA they can't take watching a confident cocky black person. It's truly ridiculous.
and I think that is what he is battling right now
Im sure he is aware of it or his advisors are. It's a fine line that I'm sure he is trying not to cross from being confident to cocky.
he should just be himself and if has a lil cockiness to his character so be it
The old regime has failed on every level and Bush is the devil in disguise. I know some whites over 50 who are fed up and already told me there voting for Obama..so..we'll see.

 

[sean69]

Corporate America loves style over substance EXCEPT when the shit hits the fan.

Then they run for the black guy....

The key is knowing your worth.

I wake up everyday striving and knowing i am one of the best at my chosen field.
However as long as i am using the next man's ball, he is free to take it and go home when he feels like it.

Thus I am making moves to become that business owner who writes off expenses like cars instead of paying for it out of my pocket, who pays 15% taxes (capital gain) and who hires people I am "comfortable" with.......

Some of us get carried away with becoming too comfortable just working (i.e. on the bench at halftime) and stay there for the 2nd half..........

This is a very good point you make here. Corporate America will always be biased towards substance (exceptional talent and skill) over style (cultural ethnicity or posture) when the bottom-line of it's capitalist machinery (money) is at stake.

But even at that, ingrained thoroughly institutionalized racial stereotypes take precedence over even the wealthiest, most famous celebrated blacks. So, like dude said, control the bottom-line, all other shit will fall in place.

 

[Star]

Las Vegas Nevada
Yesterday, I was talking to a white couple in their 80's.
They are BIG Obama supporters and will let everyone around them know why. Their points was

1. McCain is to Old
2. They said his suspending his campaign was 'cause he is Tired and the president needs to be young enough to be alert no matter whats going on.
3. Always talking about being a POW was getting annoying
4. They said they have been around since the First Depression and it is Time for a younger person to take over
5. They said McCain was almost last at school, while Obama was First
6. The only thing he said he did not understand was why Obama was not more Aggressive. When I said it was to avoid being called the Angry Black Man & that many in America have never really known a black person except for TV, Movies & the News. Which do not show us in the best light. He understood that, But still wanted Obama to not be so Nice all the time.

Point is Old people talk to each over and they said a lot of their friends feel the same, So the Vote Nov 4 may just be a Landslide for Obama. That the fancy polls are not picking up on.
I hope so.

 

[Ervis]

I think it is fitting that you mentioned Colin Powell because had it been him running, there would be no question of gravitas or swagger. These things come from experience. I think that Powell could have gotten elected because no one questioned his experience or resume.
-
Obama doesn't have the swagger of a warrior, because he is not a warrior.
-
He can still win though - if he gives the people what they want. Americans want a fighter so give them a fighter. He can be aggressive the way that Powell or Jordan were aggressive. He doesn't have to be T.O. or Chris Rock, he can be Tiger Woods.
-
And the Columbia Undergrad and Harvard Law thing, which are nice, are not nearly as impressive to the voters that will decide this election. They find the fact that McCain is the son and grandson of admirals, as well as a Naval Academy graduate to be a lot more impressive.
-
For those who don't know, the Naval Academy is like the Ivy League on steriods. Take a look at the course descriptions

http://www.usna.edu/acdean/courses/courses.html

http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/education

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/courses/2008-09/
-
Americans have always been partial to fighters so unless Obama wants to join the ranks of Presidents Gore, Mondale, Kerry and Dukakkis, who wanted to win their way and ignore the will of the voters, he will need to change.

 

[water]

I think it is fitting that you mentioned Colin Powell because had it been him running, there would be no question of gravitas or swagger. These things come from experience. I think that Powell could have gotten elected because no one questioned his experience or resume.
-
Obama doesn't have the swagger of a warrior, because he is not a warrior.
-
He can still win though - if he gives the people what they want. Americans want a fighter so give them a fighter. He can be aggressive the way that Powell or Jordan were aggressive. He doesn't have to be T.O. or Chris Rock, he can be Tiger Woods.
-
And the Columbia Undergrad and Harvard Law thing, which are nice, are not nearly as impressive to the voters that will decide this election. They find the fact that McCain is the son and grandson of admirals, as well as a Naval Academy graduate to be a lot more impressive.
-
For those who don't know, the Naval Academy is like the Ivy League on steriods. Take a look at the course descriptions

http://www.usna.edu/acdean/courses/courses.html

http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/education

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/courses/2008-09/
-
Americans have always been partial to fighters so unless Obama wants to join the ranks of Presidents Gore, Mondale, Kerry and Dukakkis, who wanted to win their way and ignore the will of the voters, he will need to change.

Urkel, how the fuck did you come to this conclusion


For those who don't know, the Naval Academy is like the Ivy League on steriods.



You are comparing universities without any regard for what they are known for.

I see a bunch of echnical courses.....those courses are not any more difficult than MIT, which is a technical school.

You really think that anyone graduating from Naval Academy is a genius (especially 894th out of 899)?

 

[^SpiderMan^]

I agree...One phrase that McCain repeatedly said was "What Obama doesnt quite seem to understand is...".No matter what he says after that, he is reinforcing that black men just arent as intellegent as whites in the minds of white folks.

 

[sean69]

I think it is fitting that you mentioned Colin Powell because had it been him running, there would be no question of gravitas or swagger. These things come from experience. I think that Powell could have gotten elected because no one questioned his experience or resume.
-
Obama doesn't have the swagger of a warrior, because he is not a warrior.
-
He can still win though - if he gives the people what they want. Americans want a fighter so give them a fighter. He can be aggressive the way that Powell or Jordan were aggressive. He doesn't have to be T.O. or Chris Rock, he can be Tiger Woods.
-
And the Columbia Undergrad and Harvard Law thing, which are nice, are not nearly as impressive to the voters that will decide this election. They find the fact that McCain is the son and grandson of admirals, as well as a Naval Academy graduate to be a lot more impressive.
-
For those who don't know, the Naval Academy is like the Ivy League on steriods. Take a look at the course descriptions

http://www.usna.edu/acdean/courses/courses.html

http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/education

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/courses/2008-09/
-
Americans have always been partial to fighters so unless Obama wants to join the ranks of Presidents Gore, Mondale, Kerry and Dukakkis, who wanted to win their way and ignore the will of the voters, he will need to change.

Go back to lurking.