How Do You Perceive the Legacy of Bobby Kennedy

[keysersoze]

I'm watching Eyes on the Prize and it seems like he was there for the black community and MLK when others like Johnson did not come to his support for criticizing the Vietnam War. He was also there for MLK's funeral and was working with MLK's Poor People's Campaign. I didn't realize how involved he was in helping the black community back in the 60s.

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/ocVhP6cGyjA[/FLASH]

How do you all feel about Robert Kennedy. Do you view him as a friend of the black community? I guess not that many people around to remember Bobby Kennedy before he was assassinated in 1968 but just based upon your perception.

 

[Obadiah Plainman]

I didn't watch your clip yet, but thanks.

Over the years I too, have read books, seen movies and documentaries that show how Bobby Kennedy was a positive force early in the Civil Rights movement. I remember hearing that during his run for office, he was actually charged with the responsibility of bearing the bad news of Dr. Kings death to a predominantly black crowd of thousands in a black neighborhood, only moments after the shooting. They said his speech calmed and comforted the masses as much as could be, under the circumstances. I also think his positions on race relations in America, coupled with his clashes with certain underworld figures is why he was later killed.

 

[Stacks]

Kennedy was an amazing politician. This speech in particular was one of the most poignant moments in political history.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jPYNb4ex6Ko&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jPYNb4ex6Ko&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Imagine having to tell a crowd of mostly Black people that MLK had just been murdered by a White guy? There was rioting all across the United States that night, but Indianapolis remained peaceful. This speech was the reason.

They always kill the ones who bring change.

 

[magnetic god]

I didn't watch your clip yet, but thanks.

Over the years I too, have read books, seen movies and documentaries that show how Bobby Kennedy was a positive force early in the Civil Rights movement. I remember hearing that during his run for office, he was actually charged with the responsibility of bearing the bad news of Dr. Kings death to a predominantly black crowd of thousands in a black neighborhood, only moments after the shooting. They said his speech calmed and comforted the masses as much as could be, under the circumstances. I also think his positions on race relations in America, coupled with his clashes with certain underworld figures is why he was later killed.

he made sure to continue the on going wiretaps and eavesdropping tactics headed by j.edgar hoover. this almost contributed to martin having a nervous breakdown, as well as the harm these dirty tactics did to his family.

 

[Obadiah Plainman]

he made sure to continue the on going wiretaps and eavesdropping tactics headed by j.edgar hoover. this almost contributed to martin having a nervous breakdown, as well as the harm these dirty tactics did to his family.

I hear you, and agree that some of what you're suggesting may be true. Being officers of the state though, wouldn't it be necessary for him to support the alphabet groups, investigations of Civil Rights Leaders? Wouldn't any responsible government official have to investigate any individual citizen wielding the shear strength of numbers that Dr. King did?

The predominant facts as I was taught, presented the Kennedy's as politicians that, much more than most, supported the African American cause. Bobby and his brothers, President John F Kennedy and others, were said to have fought out front and behind the scenes against segregation, they voted for and used their power to enact legislations which contributed to the lifting of unfair working and living conditions here in America for African Americans in particular then as they do now.

Coming up, it was common to see a portrait of King side by side with JFK in the average home. I was raised to believe and still think that all three died as soldiers on the same battlefield......fighting for the God given freedoms promised all Americans in the constitution. Which was well known then, and is why the people attending the speech that night were less combative towards him, than I'd assume they went on to be towards others of his hue. Bobby was good people.

 

[magnetic god]

I hear you, and agree that some of what you're suggesting may be true. Being officers of the state though, wouldn't it be necessary for him to support the alphabet groups, investigations of Civil Rights Leaders? Wouldn't any responsible government official have to investigate any individual citizen wielding the shear strength of numbers that Dr. King did?

He didn't merely 'support' the spying on king, he endorsed it, and renewed the efforts! All the while, posing as a 'friend' to blacks, while secretly looking to destroy who was at the time, a man who was loved by blacks, and was for many of the black poor, a fearless spokesman. Mr. Kennedy had a chance suspend the activities(illegal as well as legal)that were promoted by Hoover. Keeping an "eye" on citizens is one thing, what hoover and the f.b.i were engaged in, was another matter entirely. The fact is, if he was such the fighter for negro civil rights, and a king sympathizer, as the press would have us believe today, then why support and RENEW the efforts that were underway as it relates to the dirty tricks campaign and the illegal wiretapping? It is obvious on one level, that he(kennedy) not unlike his brother, was the consummate politician. on another level, it is well known that Hoover had Bobby kennedy in a precarious position in relation to secrets that he(hoover)kept regarding both him and his late brother. Secrets that could have destroyed the image of the kennedy family in those days. Due to the freedom of information act, all of what I have said can now(2008)be substantiated. Read about all that was done to King by the f.b.i, c.i.a, with full knowledge of BOTH kennedy brothers, then tell me if these were really men to be trusted (Check how long it took Jfk to ENFORCE the laws already set in place for poor blacks), or were they your standard 'liberal' politician.

 

[QueEx]

He didn't merely 'support' the spying on king, he endorsed it, and renewed the efforts!

Why did Robert Kennedy authorize the eavesdropping on MLK (with citation please) ???

All the while, posing as a 'friend' to blacks, while secretly looking to destroy who was at the time, a man who was loved by blacks, and was for many of the black poor, a fearless spokesman.

I think people get it twisted with terms like friend, love, etc. Why do we fall into such subjective trappings? What is important is did the person support or oppose equity. Do you respect a "white person" because he loves you or because he supports equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity?

If its respect because of they love you; I can understand why you might be concerned with Robert Kennedy, as you put it, "posing as a 'friend' to blacks." On the other hand, if its respect because of support of equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity, then, as Tina Turner might ask, "Whats Love Got to do with it" ???

QueEx

 

[magnetic god]

Why did Robert Kennedy authorize the eavesdropping on MLK (with citation please) ???




I think people get it twisted with terms like friend, love, etc. Why do we fall into such subjective trappings? What is important is did the person support or oppose equity. Do you respect a "white person" because he loves you or because he supports equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity?

If its respect because of they love you; I can understand why you might be concerned with Robert Kennedy, as you put it, "posing as a 'friend' to blacks." On the other hand, if its respect because of support of equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity, then, as Tina Turner might ask, "Whats Love Got to do with it" ???

QueEx

I think you may have mis understood the premise of both the thread, and what i have written. This isn't about 'frienship', kennedy is PORTRAYED as one who has been a FRIEND to the negro population in america. no one has spoken to the core issue(including yourself)that is, why would a man(kennedy) use dirty tactics and smear campaigns to attempt to neutralize a man who was working towards gaining full rights to the very same people he (kennedy) claimed to be sympathetic to?

 

[magnetic god]

If its respect because of they love you

QueEx

what does this mean??

 

[magnetic god]

Why did Robert Kennedy authorize the eavesdropping on MLK (with citation please) ???

???

QueEx

A cursory look into the history of the FBI in relation to the kennedy's and MLK, should answer your question. Do the research, it is readily available. I mentioned one source to research, which is the Freedom of Information act( as it relates to the files of MLK), did you read it at all BEFORE you asked for a "citation"? did you do ANY research about the wiretaps approved by the kennedy's, and the fbi's role in watching "subversives' in this country? If you have to ask WHY kennedy did approve of these measures, then perhaps this is not a discussion you are prepared to engage in with any depth.

 

[Obadiah Plainman]

He didn't merely 'support' the spying on king, he endorsed it, and renewed the efforts! All the while, posing as a 'friend' to blacks, while secretly looking to destroy who was at the time, a man who was loved by blacks, and was for many of the black poor, a fearless spokesman. Mr. Kennedy had a chance suspend the activities(illegal as well as legal)that were promoted by Hoover. Keeping an "eye" on citizens is one thing, what hoover and the f.b.i were engaged in, was another matter entirely. The fact is, if he was such the fighter for negro civil rights, and a king sympathizer, as the press would have us believe today, then why support and RENEW the efforts that were underway as it relates to the dirty tricks campaign and the illegal wiretapping? It is obvious on one level, that he(kennedy) not unlike his brother, was the consummate politician. on another level, it is well known that Hoover had Bobby kennedy in a precarious position in relation to secrets that he(hoover)kept regarding both him and his late brother. Secrets that could have destroyed the image of the kennedy family in those days. Due to the freedom of information act, all of what I have said can now(2008)be substantiated. Read about all that was done to King by the f.b.i, c.i.a, with full knowledge of BOTH kennedy brothers, then tell me if these were really men to be trusted (Check how long it took Jfk to ENFORCE the laws already set in place for poor blacks), or were they your standard 'liberal' politician.

Supporting , endorsing, or failing to suspend the investigations of Dr. King and other Civil Rights Leaders is not synonymous with "secretly looking to destroy" blacks or their leadership of the time. As I questioned before "Wouldn't any responsible government official have to investigate any individual citizen wielding the shear strength of numbers that Dr. King did?"

You also seem to argue without quoted evidence, that B. Kennedy knew of J. E. Hoovers alleged "illegal" investigative techniques in regards to Dr. King. If I recall Hoover didn't so much care for the Kennedy's himself, so why then, would it be that B. was privy (inferred in your post)to the inner workings or the techniques used there in?

I won't go on to suggest that many indecent and unethical processes weren't used to develop information on this front. Simply consider the sources, its what they do..... My argument is that you seem to be placing the scarlet letter on one of the politicians - and by extension - a family who was/is well known for putting themselves on the line in favor of Black issues. Why?

A bone can be picked with any mans decisions from 40 years ago. Hind sight......

 

[QueEx]

I think you may have mis understood the premise of both the thread, and what i have written.

I haven't misunderstood; I simply asked WHY and you've responded with everything but, WHY.

no one has spoken to the core issue(including yourself)that is, why would a man(kennedy) use dirty tactics and smear campaigns to attempt to neutralize a man who was working towards gaining full rights to the very same people he (kennedy) claimed to be sympathetic to?

When it is established that either of JFK or RFK used dirty tactics and smear campaigns against MLK, then we will have a "core issue" to discuss. To this point, however, those are merely your "allegations" unsupported by either fact or fiction.

So that you'll know, I'm not supporting or arguing in favor of either Kennedy and I don't know whether either Kennedy used dirty tactics and smear campaigns against MLK. You made the allegation so I would presume that you have the facts on that. If so, put them out there with citation.

QueEx

 

[keysersoze]

I'm also curious about the allegations against JFK and RFK. I don't know about working with J. Edgar Hoover since its documented that Hoover did a shabby job of investigating the JFK assassination (whom he spearheaded) - I also think that its on record the Hoover was on opposite ends with the Kennedys.

 

[Gifted&Afrikan]

I respect him because he attempted to destroy the federal reserve bank with Executive Order No. 11110 which would've taken away the power of issuing money from the federal reserve. This would've began issuing "money" not federal reserve notes back to the people in silver certificates and the bankers had him killed months later because of that.

 

[Garifuna]

he made sure to continue the on going wiretaps and eavesdropping tactics headed by j.edgar hoover. this almost contributed to martin having a nervous breakdown, as well as the harm these dirty tactics did to his family.

Being officers of the state though, wouldn't it be necessary for him to support the alphabet groups, investigations of Civil Rights Leaders? Wouldn't any responsible government official have to investigate any individual citizen wielding the shear strength of numbers that Dr. King did?

He didn't merely 'support' the spying on king, he endorsed it, and renewed the efforts!

As Attorney General, Robert Kennedy was J.E.Hoover's Boss. He authorized the wiretapping of MLKJr based on Hoover's recommendation. He didn't have to.

He also advised his brother to take a confrontational stance toward Cuba, and authorized at least one assassination of Fidel Castro. That's what Malcolm X was referring to in his "chickens coming home to roost" remark.

It's true that RFK stance on civil rights and MLKJr improved over the years. He might have done even more for civil rights if he continued on as Attorney General; he chose to resign.

His legacy is complex. He was anti-war in 1968, and pro-war in 1962. He said fine things about MLKJr, but never stopped the wiretaps that he authorized initially.

 

[Garifuna]

You also seem to argue without quoted evidence, that B. Kennedy knew of J. E. Hoovers alleged "illegal" investigative techniques in regards to Dr. King.

Hoover's investigations were perfectly legal, as they were authorized by the Attorney General. It is a matter of public record; not some alleged conspiracy. You can get all the evidence you want through the Freedom of Information Act, Wikipedia, or Google.

 

[QueEx]

<IFRAME SRC="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB158/index.htm" WIDTH=780 HEIGHT=1500>
<A HREF="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB158/index.htm">link</A>

</IFRAME>

 

[Gunner]

Why did Robert Kennedy authorize the eavesdropping on MLK (with citation please) ???



I think people get it twisted with terms like friend, love, etc. Why do we fall into such subjective trappings? What is important is did the person support or oppose equity. Do you respect a "white person" because he loves you or because he supports equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity?

If its respect because of they love you; I can understand why you might be concerned with Robert Kennedy, as you put it, "posing as a 'friend' to blacks." On the other hand, if its respect because of support of equity and the enforcement of laws protecting equity, then, as Tina Turner might ask, "Whats Love Got to do with it" ???

QueEx

I'm glad you took that one. I was about to throw my iPhone across the room. Well-intentions has plagued our community for years. Deeds matter. Results matter not well intentions. The same party that many hate on this board is responsible for civil rights for our people. Before the 60's civil rights legislation! Yes, liberals the civil rights amendments you enjoy today percentage wise was supported and passed by a large margin by republikkkans. Upon passage of the bill president Johnson stated " I would like to thank my republican brotheren for their support". Please save the comments about democrats were republicans back then because Robert Byrd an imperial wizard was a Senator and democrat up until his death just a few years ago.
JFK was ok to me only because he supported less taxation on America.

 

[thoughtone]

I'm glad you took that one. I was about to throw my iPhone across the room. Well-intentions has plagued our community for years. Deeds matter. Results matter not well intentions. The same party that many hate on this board is responsible for civil rights for our people. Before the 60's civil rights legislation! Yes, liberals the civil rights amendments you enjoy today percentage wise was supported and passed by a large margin by republikkkans. Upon passage of the bill president Johnson stated " I would like to thank my republican brotheren for their support". Please save the comments about democrats were republicans back then because Robert Byrd an imperial wizard was a Senator and democrat up until his death just a few years ago.
JFK was ok to me only because he supported less taxation on America.

Here we go. Who desegregated the military?

Hint,

The first President to address the NAACP.

Address before the NAACP (June 29, 1947)
Harry S. Truman

With this speech to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C., Truman becomes the first President to address the NAACP. He states there is no justifiable reason for discrimination because of ancestry, religion, race, or color. He further claims that the United States must not tolerate such limitations on the freedom of any Americans and on their enjoyment of the basic rights which every citizen in a truly democratic society must possess.

GW was the first president since Truman NOT to address the NAACP in 2000.

Truman Address The NAACP