For the most part most the whole American educational system is subpar. I went to high school overseas for 2 yrs when i came back i was leaps and bounds ahead of my peers. American schools are like day cares somewhere for a kid to be while his/her parents are at work. When i was in elementary a nigga had a speech problem do you know i was placed in so called "special classes" couldn't even read cuz teaches were so concern about my speech problem. So in about the 3rd grade i had to teach myself how to read "so sad". People really don't vaule education even in college your first two years are bullshit until you get into your major. As a country we are just lazy that defines it right there. I'm not the smartest person but people don't want to take the time to learn shit they would rather watch tv or play the playstation.
Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?
- Thread starter water
- Start date
this has nothing to do with black o white.
A white project coordinator on the job couldn't point out China when we showed him a map of the world....... He is 36 yrs old, makes 65K has a 9 yr old daughter and he coaches his daughter's team.
It has to do with Americans. I generally find that the black people in my social group are usually more informed that the white ones.
However the least informed are usually Americans who know less about America than people who immigrate here.
All I have to say is THANKS to the efforts of folks like Ms. Jacoby.
Further:
This virulent trend of Anti-Intellectualism has become the most consequential zeitgeist in modern history. It has been defined along a consonant schism wedged betwixt belief vs. critical observation that renders into crystalline focus the power childishly wielded by the tyranny of an ignorant, abdicating majority whom have become tacit, de-facto, YET clearly complicit soldiers, waging war against the very 'institution' that is responsible for our survival and advancement into the 21st century . . . 'The Thinking Man'!
This single phenomenon has and continues to be the bane of my (and I suspect many more) existence, as I traverse social and professional terrain, outmaneuvering minefields strewn with the
fatal munitions that are the products of illogic, unreason, and slothful, undisciplined epicureanism.
History does provide us with narrative accounts revealing a hypocritical acrimony and disdain for the 'Thinker' all the while those very critics herald every life improving/enhancing invention or discovery, yet demonizing, and castigating said thinking individuals as caricatured subhuman, antisocial, boring, weaklings whom are an impediment to 'the greater good'.
IT IS AS PERVASIVE and widespread as oxygen (. . . albeit the type you might have found in the smog filled skies of 80's era Los Angeles), feel me?
Given the historical record, replete with examples of my aformentioned musings, WHY WOULD ANYONE of venerable intellect extend an olive branch to such hostile antagonists of the rational mind?
Riddle me that.
JG
Further:
This virulent trend of Anti-Intellectualism has become the most consequential zeitgeist in modern history. It has been defined along a consonant schism wedged betwixt belief vs. critical observation that renders into crystalline focus the power childishly wielded by the tyranny of an ignorant, abdicating majority whom have become tacit, de-facto, YET clearly complicit soldiers, waging war against the very 'institution' that is responsible for our survival and advancement into the 21st century . . . 'The Thinking Man'!
This single phenomenon has and continues to be the bane of my (and I suspect many more) existence, as I traverse social and professional terrain, outmaneuvering minefields strewn with the
fatal munitions that are the products of illogic, unreason, and slothful, undisciplined epicureanism.
History does provide us with narrative accounts revealing a hypocritical acrimony and disdain for the 'Thinker' all the while those very critics herald every life improving/enhancing invention or discovery, yet demonizing, and castigating said thinking individuals as caricatured subhuman, antisocial, boring, weaklings whom are an impediment to 'the greater good'.
IT IS AS PERVASIVE and widespread as oxygen (. . . albeit the type you might have found in the smog filled skies of 80's era Los Angeles), feel me?
Given the historical record, replete with examples of my aformentioned musings, WHY WOULD ANYONE of venerable intellect extend an olive branch to such hostile antagonists of the rational mind?
Riddle me that.
JG
- well that proves my point, if you ask that same white guy about "project coordinating", u probably couldn't get him to shut the fuck up with all the info he shoots back @ you...people learn what they want. and the american educational system is not designed for folks to RETAIN knowledge, just know it long enough to regurgitate it back on2 a test. that' s how our system works like it or not...
my statements were basically arguing that if we wanted to just do THIS, we could, but we have been taught for going on 3 decades now that it is really not worth the effort, which is a big fat myth created to keep certain folks rich - but i digress..
but I do agree, a very small percentage of americans actually retain knowledge just for the sake of retaining it...the old "why would i need to know THAT!?" excuse...we aren't the dumbest nation on earth for nothing...
In part I agree with you onslaught. I have brought up your argument awhile ago in another thread concerning education and no one really cared to comment. What is being done to our educational standards is purposeful and intended. You can't have smart slaves.
I agree in part but at what point do adults unplug from the matrix and wise up for the sake of their kids at least???
Some of these parents are kids themselves in grown bodies....
I agree. Not even on the aluminum foil head level, either. There is a precedent for rulers silencing the findings of its thinkers. Dumb consumers, that's all you need to run a nation, so that is all they want....
And with that said, this question has been answered....
Smoke, like always brotha, you're on point with the vision.
Kaya, the only way I'll ever see a parent being unplugged is when there's immediate harm to themselves or their kids. Even then, it may take sometime for reality to set in. People are complacent with being sheeple, slaves, etc., as long as their told that they aren't those things. Just think about it: When was the last time someone opposed getting a handout? Shit, some black folks want reparations from almost a hundred something years ago, a fossilized standard, in the present day!
I'd rather have my true freedom and boundaries set up to ensure I'm an equal in this society...people as a whole just want to be taken care of...
How can they when some of those same adults were brought up in the same system as the child? This is cyclical.
Of course there are exceptions, but the adult who once was a child had to have the foresight to see beyond the bullshit presented to them. Not everyone has that gift.
i remember at the beginning of this semester a boy in my class returned from kentucky. He went as an exchange student doing sociology and law the semester b4...and he said it was a easy way to raise his gpa.
Our class had to write 3 essays in the final exam for sociology...and im not to sure about the law class cuz im not in it. However, he said that the teacher negotiated the way the exam would b written with the students...n u know its obviously gonna be multiple choice and complete the sentence...THIS IS A SECOND YEAR CLASS u know! He came back with great grades tho but it is a bit unfair if u look at it. I still am not worried though becuz this semester's final exam is probably gonna be the same thing and he has to know his stuff from the year b4.
There were some white exchange students that CAME from kentucky, denver and i tink kansas aswell & they were struggling with the pace we were going at but they soon got used to it.
some people told me that they found it easier to go college in the US in comparison to lil barbados.
...the system in the US is not gonna change ne time soon...so i guess u guys that are coming up and are recognising these things would know what to do when u get ur child.
Our class had to write 3 essays in the final exam for sociology...and im not to sure about the law class cuz im not in it. However, he said that the teacher negotiated the way the exam would b written with the students...n u know its obviously gonna be multiple choice and complete the sentence...THIS IS A SECOND YEAR CLASS u know! He came back with great grades tho but it is a bit unfair if u look at it. I still am not worried though becuz this semester's final exam is probably gonna be the same thing and he has to know his stuff from the year b4.
There were some white exchange students that CAME from kentucky, denver and i tink kansas aswell & they were struggling with the pace we were going at but they soon got used to it.
some people told me that they found it easier to go college in the US in comparison to lil barbados.
...the system in the US is not gonna change ne time soon...so i guess u guys that are coming up and are recognising these things would know what to do when u get ur child.
What up O,
I agree with you in that the government is PART of the problem equation.
However this phenomenon and its' consequences have NO shortage shoulders upon which to rest blame. Primarily though, this problem has LESS (not NOTHING, but less)to do with the government than it does its' subjects.
It is a battle fought(and apparently lost) over class values and the ideological tenets. Which, dictate ones' course of action given any situation where CHOICE is available to ones self, whereby one might conduct his/herself accordingly. This certainly frames the issue as a cultural one, and cannot be confined to that of neither the government OR parents . . exclusively.
What say you?
JG
And with that said, this question has been answered....
Smoke, like always brotha, you're on point with the vision.
Kaya, the only way I'll ever see a parent being unplugged is when there's immediate harm to themselves or their kids. Even then, it may take sometime for reality to set in. People are complacent with being sheeple, slaves, etc., as long as their told that they aren't those things. Just think about it: When was the last time someone opposed getting a handout? Shit, some black folks want reparations from almost a hundred something years ago, a fossilized standard, in the present day!
You are a bit plugged in there fellow.
You mention reparations as being pie in the sky then mention you wanting your "true freedom and boundaries set up to ensure [you] are equal in this society".
Are you going to take this freedom?
Or are you going to ask for it?
Who is responsible for setting the boundaries that you desire to be "equal"
Interesting.........
Kaya, the only way I'll ever see a parent being unplugged is when there's immediate harm to themselves or their kids. Even then, it may take sometime for reality to set in. People are complacent with being sheeple, slaves, etc., as long as their told that they aren't those things. Just think about it: When was the last time someone opposed getting a handout? Shit, some black folks want reparations from almost a hundred something years ago, a fossilized standard, in the present day!
I have witnessed first hand that people want to be told what to do.
I took a class during the winter session and the professor asked the class do you prefer making choices or being told what to do? And low and behold a substantial amount of students in the class preferred to be told what to do.
Now consider that a good amount of students in this class fell this way imagine how adults 25 and older may compare?
Long time JG...where you been hidin' brotha??
I definitely agree that there are many fingers to point at when blame is being distributed, especially one pointed right back at us individually. There is the the variable of good ol' FREE WILL/CHOICE, however I think the government plays a large part at putting up road blocks in the forked road, making it seem as if there is really no choice at all. I'm not necessarily speaking of the overt but more so the covert. Who in large runs the schools...the local government. Who controls revenue and dispersion of government money...the government. Who passes laws that control what restrains us from doing anything...the government. It's funny, one old definition of a license was the permission or warrant to do something illegal...so fishing, protecting one's self, getting from point a to b, hunting, etc. are illegal? This country keeps you bound.
Plus, culture, in large part, is a societal construct. We live in the American culture because we live in America. There may be pockets of people that fight against that grain, but you will be an outcast, and most people in this society are conformist.
The final choice will always be up to the individual, but it takes a well trained and gifted (one with intuition and insight) person to break the mold...
I'm not plugged in, but I perceive reality as well as the next "open-minded" person. It takes the collective to get something accomplished going against a so-called "power". We can't do it individually, especially in this current society. We can be aware but to take action, you will be merked and become a martyr for the cause. Right now, in the collective's current mind state, we are not there yet to rise up.
I am free in mind, but in society, flesh and blood, and as a young black man, I have the book thrown at me on a daily basis...how can I escape that? That's called physical, societal reality.
Then what is the problem!!!
Why don't they want to learn?????
Cause being smart/knowledgable is being unhappy sometimes. it hurts to know people are dying, and starving, and being raped and pillaged....all for bullshit, nothing. Ignorance is bliss. If you can claim to "not know" or "not know any better" its a powerful defense, but when it becomes a mindset, or a shield to stay in that mindset.........that shit is deadly. Ive had conversationswith people that they didn't wanna finish. The knowledge was coming so hard and fast...it was like i was Freddy Kruger with a book, they were literally scared!
if you combine that with the natural urge to resist change...the fact that we live WAY MORE COMFORTABLY than we should. The status quo feels very good to a lot of people. Its not the poor either...its the middle class and the wealthy. Paris hilton didnt graduate high school for cryin out loud......but she doesnt need it in todays world. You can be dumb/ignorant as a rock...but theres money to be made off being dumb. not even ACTING DUMB. BEING DUMB. jessica simpson....a whole 3 seasons of show just to see you act normal...
I overstand completely.
It a lonely life sometimes especially if you can't find like minded people around.
Keep your head up, there are more of us than we sometimes realize..........
cant blame the govt.....its not uncle sam. there is so much information at hand, and really has always been. No one cares to get it. look at how exponentionally lazy/dumber people have gotten since the internet. all the facts and cool shit on earth to look at.....and whats it primarily used for outside of business. Im definitely not lauding the educational system by any means.....but I went to D.C. public schools.....then a really famous private one...then back to public schools....then then high school in the burbs. I learned a lot because i was fortunate to have teachers that cared for the most part....public or private. But the VAST majority of information came from books, 321 contact, national geographic, visits to the FREE smithsonian museums (which are metrorail accesible)...visits to the library....takinghome library books from school..........the childrens museum....and discovery channel. all FREE besides cable. i know everyone didnt grow up in D.C....but thats not an excuse. Libraries, museums, and time with your kids doing educational things are all feasable. i had a single mom....she worked alot...she aint work 2 jobs but she worked alot. i hit a museum at least once a month for a couple hours.
I think the problem is 50/50 with the education system and parents. The education system is doing actually what it is suppose to do ever since the federal gov. took over. Basically your suppose to go through school and not cause any trouble and take what they teach you as the truth. Most people when leaving public school can't really do any critical thinking. I'm 22 and I've gained more knowledge through self education than I did while going to school.
Hiding under Iraq . . . (kidding, I know corny, what!)
Just busy is all.
So are ALL of the 'institutions' that form and drive societies. In further point of fact, societies are artificial constructs themselves. It is OUR collective participation within them (societies), under agreed rules of engagement, that give MEANING to the institution of society (or any institution for that matter ie; religion, science, entertainment, etc.).
This conformity is a huge piece of the puzzle and I expressed similar sentiments in my initial post of this thread.
Agreed. But given that perceptions, choices, and decisions are the 'machinery', if you will, that drive people. One has to ask, todays decadence aside, What are OUR perceptions, choices, and decisions TODAY, such that WE (at least as black folk) now have a fully palpable cultural decline that was QUITE the opposite of our generations prior to the 90's?
We've ALWAYS had similar challenges in past years. The question is, what is different today that can account for this widespread, intellectual disinterest . . . even worse, APATHY?
Hmmm, there may even be cases of it in THIS very thread
!!!I still have seen no replies to my first post in this thread
JG
The anti-intellectualism, dumbness and general stupidity that have become part of the Amerikkkan landscape are not coincidental nor are they the general result of the inadequacies or failures of parents and public education.
Anti-intellectual, dumbness and general stupidity ARE REQUIRED and have been DELIBERATELY FOSTERED AMONG THE POPULACE (and yes the school system is complicit in the dumbing of the people). Acute dumbness and anti-intellectualism are part of the congruent methods of control employed by modern fascism. Do the ruling class have anything to fear from a nation of imbeciles?? People who could no more explain the continual, constant and unending fucking they receive each day then they can name 2 nations beginning with the letter U?? Really what threat to power do such people pose?
Anti-intellectual, dumbness and general stupidity ARE REQUIRED and have been DELIBERATELY FOSTERED AMONG THE POPULACE (and yes the school system is complicit in the dumbing of the people). Acute dumbness and anti-intellectualism are part of the congruent methods of control employed by modern fascism. Do the ruling class have anything to fear from a nation of imbeciles??
People who could no more explain the continual, constant and unending fucking they receive each day then they can name 2 nations beginning with the letter U?? Really what threat to power do such people pose?
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I think I'll always return to the teachings as long as I live,..
... we learned young that there is a five percent, a ten percent, and an eighty five percent of earth's populace. But most of us refuse to take this teaching into consideration because of it's simple language...
Look at these threads on BGOL, you find the same individuals posting in the same sort of threads...Its like a club within a club...
Ignorance is bliss, and those gifted with understanding are dismissed until someone finds oneself in a mire of reality that needs a new perspective, until then...bullshit as usual...
Intellectuals attack other intellectuals, and most times over some emotional shit, the nerds have graduated, and boy meets world, finds out pussy IS free, and for the most part popularity and power...
Anti-intellectualism, or more correctly stated, anti-progressivism, is rampant because the elites fear the next person, and doubt themselves...True evolution will not occur until men and women realize that governments are like families, we all can have one...
Now, that's freedom...
... we learned young that there is a five percent, a ten percent, and an eighty five percent of earth's populace. But most of us refuse to take this teaching into consideration because of it's simple language...
Look at these threads on BGOL, you find the same individuals posting in the same sort of threads...Its like a club within a club...
Ignorance is bliss, and those gifted with understanding are dismissed until someone finds oneself in a mire of reality that needs a new perspective, until then...bullshit as usual...
Intellectuals attack other intellectuals, and most times over some emotional shit, the nerds have graduated, and boy meets world, finds out pussy IS free, and for the most part popularity and power...
Anti-intellectualism, or more correctly stated, anti-progressivism, is rampant because the elites fear the next person, and doubt themselves...True evolution will not occur until men and women realize that governments are like families, we all can have one...
Now, that's freedom...
My bad JG...I didn't even see this post right here.
Eloquent to say the least...I definitely have to agree. Lets look at the historical record...Jesus (if you want to consider him), Tyco, Copernicus, Galileo, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Joan of Arc, Faraq Fouda, Mohammad Mokhtari, and countless others who have stood up to change the direction or course of their culture and societies...all either dead or exiled. You're right, with today's standards and past accounts it doesn't "pay" to think.
I mean look at the state of things: Most intellectuals such as scientists, professors, philosophers, political activist or those that make social commentary, have to go on "circuits" in order to get their point across or write a book. Those in the lime light, who for the most part lack half a brain and have a soapbox and mic attached to your assholes, have an audience already assembled and are able to voice their opinions freely. It doesn't make any sense.
My bad JG...I didn't even see this post right here.
Eloquent to say the least...I definitely have to agree. Lets look at the historical record...Jesus (if you want to consider him), Tyco, Copernicus, Galileo, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Joan of Arc, Faraq Fouda, Mohammad Mokhtari, and countless others who have stood up to change the direction or course of their culture and societies...all either dead or exiled. You're right, with today's standards and past accounts it doesn't "pay" to think.
I mean look at the state of things: Most intellectuals such as scientists, professors, philosophers, political activist or those that make social commentary, have to go on "circuits" in order to get their point across or write a book. Those in the lime light, who for the most part lack half a brain and have a soapbox and mic attached to your assholes, have an audience already assembled and are able to voice their opinions freely. It doesn't make any sense.
sad truth.
Then what is the problem!!!
Why don't they want to learn?????
Because they don't have enough reasons to learn.
Couldn't have said it better. I've heard that our school system is based on the Prussian (present day parts of Germany, Poland, Russia Lithuania) education system. It was said that the Prussians lost wars because the populace was too well educated and questioned their government's motives for fighting(in other words they knew better than to follow their government blindly and didn't take any shit). This made the population more difficult to control, so in response to this they dumbed down the population with a more militaristic style education.
Thats horrible@ Lenny...but hey...respect for other humans has never been a human strongpoint.
The concept of accepted truth:
I allow the established power, in which I accept without question, formulate what my beliefs are without any proof or facts.
I'll pick on Bush because he is easy: I will attack Iraq because they have WMDs. I still wage war in Iraq because, obviously, the terrorists prefer to fight me where I decide they will. We will win in Iraq because the terrorists are of finite numbers and if I killed enough of them, the war will be over.
Most Americans believe the above statement without question. Mindlessly ignoring that all of it was stated without fact or proof. Why? The drones of American society are TAUGHT not to think but to BELIEVE. Listen to Bill O'Reilly and check how he responds when a guest questions his line of logic in presenting his premise. Its always an illogical rant with the large majority of people doing the
.
The only education you will receive in this country is the one you get yourself and is taught to you outside the traditional classroom. I went to an engineering school and as previous stated saw the art of negotiated grades being manufactured.
I allow the established power, in which I accept without question, formulate what my beliefs are without any proof or facts.
I'll pick on Bush because he is easy: I will attack Iraq because they have WMDs. I still wage war in Iraq because, obviously, the terrorists prefer to fight me where I decide they will. We will win in Iraq because the terrorists are of finite numbers and if I killed enough of them, the war will be over.
Most Americans believe the above statement without question. Mindlessly ignoring that all of it was stated without fact or proof. Why? The drones of American society are TAUGHT not to think but to BELIEVE. Listen to Bill O'Reilly and check how he responds when a guest questions his line of logic in presenting his premise. Its always an illogical rant with the large majority of people doing the
.The only education you will receive in this country is the one you get yourself and is taught to you outside the traditional classroom. I went to an engineering school and as previous stated saw the art of negotiated grades being manufactured.
Anyone seen that movie Idiocracy?
as much as I like usa it always amazes me how ignorant people are when it comes to other countrys.
lol@ the majority of americans thinking britain is a country
lol@ the majority of americans thinking britain is a country
Y'all notice how they don't just report the news anymore? Now they give a few facts and then give you a predigested conclusion. You don't have to think anymore and that's dangerous because they rarely arrive at the same conclusion that a rational informed person would. They short circut the thought process and now many people can't think. I go to a major name brand university and I've never seen so many stupid engineering and math geniuses. They can calculate all sorts of shit but are incapable of true awareness and nonmathematical rational thought.
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