Muhammad Ali vs. Lenox Lewis

[PimpJuice]

Even in both of their primes, Ali would beat Lenox Lewis without a problem. Look how he humiliated Foreman "The Knock Out Machine". Ali would even beat Tyson in his prime when Tyson was only 18 and destroying everyone on the scene. Ali is and always will be the best ever boxer. See why his daughter is so great and feared?

cosign. Ali was way too big for Tyson. The only prayer in hell that Tyson would've had is if Ali started playing with him and got caught. People forget how big Ali is because he was so graceful and athletic. Ali is a very big man. When he came into the ring at 217 1/2 lbs. he was unbeatable. In his prime, Ali would've beat Tyson to death. But, even after his layoff, he would've psyched Mike out and frustrated him. Mike might've run out of the ring in frustration.

Most of Ali's weight was in his legs. He wasn't top heavy at all. However, he was still extremely fit and had a natural big physique in his whole body. Fighters like 'Smokin'Joe Frazier who had tree "trunk like" legs and 'Big George' Foreman were warriors like Muhammad Ali. The sad thing is that Tyson may have became so frustrated with Ali, he may have attempted to bite Ali. But I don't think Ali would have allowed that to happen. KO by Ali on Lenox Lewis in the fourth round. KO by Ali on Tyson in the third round, maybe fourth. In fact, Foreman would have beaten both Tyson and Lenox Lewis if they were all in their primes at the same time.



If you think I'm tripping, just check out the old fights of Ali and Foreman.

 

[Gazoo]

Most of Ali's weight was in his legs. He wasn't top heavy at all. However, he was still extremely fit and had a natural big physique in his whole body. Fighters like 'Smokin'Joe Frazier who had tree "trunk like" legs and 'Big George' Foreman were warriors like Muhammad Ali. The sad thing is that Tyson may have became so frustrated with Ali, he may have attempted to bite Ali. But I don't think Ali would have allowed that to happen. KO by Ali on Lenox Lewis in the fourth round. KO by Ali on Tyson in the third round, maybe fourth. In fact, Foreman would have beaten both Tyson and Lenox Lewis if they were all in their primes at the same time.



If you think I'm tripping, just check out the old fights of Ali and Foreman.

Tyson vs. Foreman would have been interesting.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Tyson vs. Foreman would have been interesting.

Young George or old George?

I was always curious about Tyson vs. Frasier..(young Mike, the one with the head movement.)

 

[Sexonthebeach]

Ali would have figure Lewis out and then knocked him out. Remember Lewis was very methodical. He was a decent, not a great boxer, by heavyweight standards. Ali, in his prime, was exceptional. First of all, Lewis would have been intimidated, just like Liston, by Ali's prediction, to knock him out. Then Ali would have walked him around the ring, shooting jabs in his grill to frustrate Lewis. Then exactly at the moment that Lewis would have gained a little confidence and reached back to throw a straight right, Ali would have dipped and shot back. It would be over. As a matter of fact, Lewis would tried to get up, but his corner would have thrown in the towel.

Ali . . . Ali . . . Ali

 

[nick177th]

Just because you can find exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the rule is invalid.
There are many factors that can determine the result of a fight and not all of them quantifiable.
So ignoring all that can't be quantified, if the fastest man in the world is faster than he was 30 years ago why not the best heavyweight in the world better than he was 30 years ago?
You'd have to define 'bitchmade', because I feel that boxing is the one sport you don't get many people you could categorize as a bitch, just because it's the one sport where you can't hide, it's as real as you can get.

Your trying to play "if this, then that". it don't work like that Bruh. Let me give you a for instance, Now, you're telling me that it stands to reason that since Rahman ( KO'd Lewis for the title) came 30 years after Ali, then he should be able to beat Ali? man, you don't believe THAT yo dam self. LOL! My man, you're trying to determine the outcome of a sporting event in a calculator. Everything in sports is not a statistic. As a matter of fact, there is a saying that goes "statisitcs are for losers". You're trying to take natural talent and the human spirit out of the equation because YOU can't measure it. I'm a student of sports. I've been playing ball and watching sports all my life. I watched my first fight in 1965. so, it goes without saying that I wasn't born last night. Now, I'm not discounting your knowledge because you're younger than me. However, your generation tends to think what happened yesterday (figuratively speaking) was the greatest thing of all time. It's just not so. You can't train "greatness". Muhhamed Ali was the Greatest fighter of all time. Lennox Lewis was a good fighter. The best in his era. I'll make another point here for you. Ali beat every fighter that was the quintessential fighter for "their" era. he beat Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Each one of these men were human wrecking machines. Liston was supposed to kill Ali. Ali TKO'd him. (if you don't answer the bell, that's considered a TKO). After three years off, Frazier was supposed to kill Ali. Frazier beat him on a split decision after less than a year back in the ring. Foreman was supposed to annihilate Ali. Ali knocked him out. Talk to me.

 

[PimpJuice]

Tyson vs. Foreman would have been interesting.

You're not getting it bruh. Although 'Big George' Foreman was the most feared KO machine until 'Iron' Mike Tyson came along, Foreman was still somewhat a decent boxer. He slugged like a big brawler most of the time because he admitted years later that he wanted to hurt his opponent so they couldn't get up. Foreman has a much longer reach on Tyson. Remember what Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfeild and Lenox Lewis were able to do to Tyson? I know, Tyson was going through psychological problems but the fact remains that Tyson's opponents were taller men and made it extremely difficult for Tyson to get punches inside.

Foreman vs Ali link (only the round when Foreman gets knocked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf64ZCYVcEI

 

[nick177th]

Most of Ali's weight was in his legs. He wasn't top heavy at all. However, he was still extremely fit and had a natural big physique in his whole body. Fighters like 'Smokin'Joe Frazier who had tree "trunk like" legs and 'Big George' Foreman were warriors like Muhammad Ali. The sad thing is that Tyson may have became so frustrated with Ali, he may have attempted to bite Ali. But I don't think Ali would have allowed that to happen. KO by Ali on Lenox Lewis in the fourth round. KO by Ali on Tyson in the third round, maybe fourth. In fact, Foreman would have beaten both Tyson and Lenox Lewis if they were all in their primes at the same time.



If you think I'm tripping, just check out the old fights of Ali and Foreman.

cosign

 

[nick177th]

Young George or old George?

I was always curious about Tyson vs. Frasier..(young Mike, the one with the head movement.)

Jesus that would've been a hell of a fight to see. somebody would have had to go to sleep. no way that would've went the distance. As much as I hate to do it, I have to question Mike's ring discipline. You know joe didn't give a fuck about going 15 rounds. Mike may not have had enough ring saavy to hang in there in that type of fight. 'Cause Joe wasn't goin' nowhere. Mike was never comfortable in close quarters with somebody muscling HIM.

 

[ron_mexico]

Ali dropped Foremen in his Prime. Even the modern heavyweights couldn't drop a old ass fat hamburger eaten Foreman.

Everyone knows Lennox has a glass chin, and Ali has one of the greatest chins in history.

No contest ALi kills him.


I give Iron Mike a better chance against Ali than Lewis, based on Ali's trouble with Joe Frazier and people forget Mike had a good chin. But I think Ali would have frustrated Mike too much to have his head in the fight.

I have Holyfeild going the Distance with Ali but losing a decision. Based on Holyfeild having the most heart of any recent Heavyweight and a Iron Chin.

 

[PimpJuice]

Young George or old George?

I was always curious about Tyson vs. Frasier..(young Mike, the one with the head movement.)

Jesus that would've been a hell of a fight to see. somebody would have had to go to sleep. no way that would've went the distance. As much as I hate to do it, I have to question Mike's ring discipline. You know joe didn't give a fuck about going 15 rounds. Mike may not have had enough ring saavy to hang in there in that type of fight. 'Cause Joe wasn't goin' nowhere. Mike was never comfortable in close quarters with somebody muscling HIM.

Two shorter and stocky heavyweights battling. 'Smokin' Joe Frazier would also frustrate Tyson and Tyson would lose. Frazier was always a very tough fighter to beat. He lost to the best at the time...Ali and Foreman. Ali was able to out-box Frazier and keep the shorter Frazier out of reach. Foreman did the same thing and Foreman's raw power wore out Frazier. Now with Tyson and Frazier, Frazier would absolutely out-box Tyson. Tyson would attempt to brawl but Frazier's head moves were the best in the sport. He was quick and extremely powerful due to strength coming from those 'tree trunk-like' legs. His footwork was better than Tyson when they were both at their primes. Many people don't realize that Frazier was always #2 compared to Ali's greatness. It's like Michael Jordan being compared to Clyde Drexler at the time when both of them were doing incredible things on that b-court. Frazier would TKO Tyson in round 7 or 8. Frazier's jaw was like steel and his body was like dead raw cattle meat. If he wasn't kept out of his hitting reach like Foreman and Ali did, opponents had serious problems.

Here's the 3 min link of the Foreman vs Frazier KO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfr5MXl8llI

 

[nick177th]

Two shorter and stocky heavyweights battling. 'Smokin' Joe Frazier would also frustrate Tyson and Tyson would lose. Frazier was always a very tough fighter to beat. He lost to the best at the time...Ali and Foreman. Ali was able to out-box Frazier and keep the shorter Frazier out of reach. Foreman did the same thing and Foreman's raw power wore out Frazier. Now with Tyson and Frazier, Frazier would absolutely out-box Tyson. Tyson would attempt to brawl but Frazier's head moves were the best in the sport. He was quick and extremely powerful due to strength coming from those 'tree trunk-like' legs. His footwork was better than Tyson when they were both at their primes. Many people don't realize that Frazier was always #2 compared to Ali's greatness. It's like Michael Jordan being compared to Clyde Drexler at the time when both of them were doing incredible things on that b-court. Frazier would TKO Tyson in round 7 or 8. Frazier's jaw was like steel and his body was like dead raw cattle meat. If he wasn't kept out of his hitting reach like Foreman and Ali did, opponents had serious problems.

Here's the 3 min link of the Foreman vs Frazier KO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfr5MXl8llI

LOL! I don't know if I can look at the video. that was brutal.

 

[Big Philly]

QUOTE=charlie dark;3507158]An passionate defense, but if we agree that we can not prove the case one way or another, then we are left with no other choice other than to review the case rationally.
Man is bigger stronger healthier fitter than he was 30 years ago, so the laws of probability would suggest that the odds would be stacked in favour of a modern heavyweight great.
No matter how great you are anyone can get knocked out.

I'm guessing your not gonna agree with me on this one but that's cool.[/QUOTE]

Your trying to play "if this, then that". it don't work like that Bruh. Let me give you a for instance, Now, you're telling me that it stands to reason that since Rahman ( KO'd Lewis for the title) came 30 years after Ali, then he should be able to beat Ali? man, you don't believe THAT yo dam self. LOL! My man, you're trying to determine the outcome of a sporting event in a calculator. Everything in sports is not a statistic. As a matter of fact, there is a saying that goes "statisitcs are for losers". You're trying to take natural talent and the human spirit out of the equation because YOU can't measure it. I'm a student of sports. I've been playing ball and watching sports all my life. I watched my first fight in 1965. so, it goes without saying that I wasn't born last night. Now, I'm not discounting your knowledge because you're younger than me. However, your generation tends to think what happened yesterday (figuratively speaking) was the greatest thing of all time. It's just not so. You can't train "greatness". Muhhamed Ali was the Greatest fighter of all time. Lennox Lewis was a good fighter. The best in his era. I'll make another point here for you. Ali beat every fighter that was the quintessential fighter for "their" era. he beat Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Each one of these men were human wrecking machines. Liston was supposed to kill Ali. Ali TKO'd him. (if you don't answer the bell, that's considered a TKO). After three years off, Frazier was supposed to kill Ali. Frazier beat him on a split decision after less than a year back in the ring. Foreman was supposed to annihilate Ali. Ali knocked him out. Talk to me.

Nick is correct here. You can't put boxing up against any of the other sports because of the rules of combat and the weight classes. Like I said earlier, boxers haven't changed their style since boxing became a gloved sport. When guys vary from the standard rules they usually lose. Ali was one of the few guys to not follow those rules and win. In all the other sports people come up with new ways to do things and it catches on and they are successful but that rarely happens in boxing. The only real difference is the size in the heavyweight division and that will be changed soon as they are considering making a super heavy weight limit of no less than 228 pounds.

 

[PimpJuice]

LOL! I don't know if I can look at the video. that was brutal.

It's a shame that Frazier didn't get more respect. Many people were amazed how quickly Frazier went down against Foreman.(2nd round KO in 1973) Still undefeated, and with an impressive knockout record, Foreman was set to challenge undefeated and undisputed world heavyweight champion Joe Frazier, who in 1971 had scored a 15-round unanimous decision over previously-unbeaten Muhammad Ali, following Ali's return to the ring after an exile of more than three and a half years, when he didn't want to fight for the US. It's just that Frazier couldn't get a good reach on Foreman. Foreman intimidated and then ultimately man-handled most of his opponents. When Foreman lost to Ali, he retired in shame. People lost the thrill of seeing Foreman fight.(kinda like when Tyson suddenly lost to Buster) In fact, people would pay more money to see Frazier fight after that historic 2nd round KO by Foreman on Frazier than a beat up Foreman that lost to Ali. Years later, that would all change when Foreman made his comback in 1987 to regain his belt.

 

[nick177th]

It's a shame that Frazier didn't get more respect. Many people were amazed how quickly Frazier went down against Foreman.(2nd round KO in 1973) Still undefeated, and with an impressive knockout record, Foreman was set to challenge undefeated and undisputed world heavyweight champion Joe Frazier, who in 1971 had scored a 15-round unanimous decision over previously-unbeaten Muhammad Ali, following Ali's return to the ring after an exile of more than three and a half years, when he didn't want to fight for the US. It's just that Frazier couldn't get a good reach on Foreman. Foreman intimidated and then ultimately man-handled most of his opponents. When Foreman lost to Ali, he retired in shame. People lost the thrill of seeing Foreman fight.(kinda like when Tyson suddenly lost to Buster) In fact, people would pay more money to see Frazier fight after that historic 2nd round KO by Foreman on Frazier than a beat up Foreman that lost to Ali. Years later, that would all change when Foreman made his comback in 1987 to regain his belt.

I have just come to endear Joe Frazier in my adult years. I hated Joe Frazier for beating Muhhamed Ali. That fight caused the "great divide" in the Black neighborhood back in the day. Half were for Frazier and half were for Ali. My father took me to see all three of the Ali-Frazier fights (on CCTV) at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It will be 37 years ago next month since the first one in Madison Square Garden. It still feels like that night was a dream. I had been waiting for my hero to reclaim his crown atop the boxing world forever so it seemed. People were cheering and screaming so loud I couldn't here my father talking to me sitting right next to me. when Ali entered the ring it felt like the whole building was shaking. That was truly a war. I have never witnessed a fight of that intensity since that night. (to include the thrilla in manila). I was keeping score of the fight in my head and as biased as I was, I knew Ali had to take the last two rounds to win the fight. When Frazier knocked him down in the 15th, my eyes welled up. It was as if the world was coming to an end. I couldn't believe my hero had fallen. After the fight, it was pure chaos. people were fighting in the Spectrum. People were fighting in the streets. Women were crying. People committed suicide that night. it was surreal. I can not equate another sporting event to that fight.

 

[TruDat]

ALI all day

 

[da_monumental_1]

As much as I love Ali, I'll take Lennox. Those who know, know. Lennox's style prior to the McCall was a mirror of Doug Jones. Lennox was a 240, not 180/190 Jones. The Clay - Jones fight should have been Ali's first lost. You beat Ali by offsetting the jab. It's what Ken Norton did and let's be honest, Norton won all three of those fights. Eddie Futch (greatest trainer of all time, either him or Ray Arcel) instructions: To beat Ali is easy. Offset (jab with him) his jab.




The old boxing adage is true. Styles makes fights. It's what gave De La Hoya his moments of success in the Mayweather fight. To this day, I have no idea why he abandoned his jab. It was working like clockwork.

 

[Makkonnen]

As much as I love Ali, I'll take Lennox. Those who know, know. Lennox's style prior to the McCall was a mirror of Doug Jones. Lennox was a 240, not 180/190 Jones. The Clay - Jones fight should have been Ali's first lost. You beat Ali by offsetting the jab. It's what Ken Norton did and let's be honest, Norton won all three of those fights. Eddie Futch (greatest trainer of all time, either him or Ray Arcel) instructions: To beat Ali is easy. Offset (jab with him) his jab.




The old boxing adage is true. Styles makes fights. It's what gave De La Hoya his moments of success in the Mayweather fight. To this day, I have no idea why he abandoned his jab. It was working like clockwork.

As far as Eddie's advice and DLH's abandoning the jab - some shit is easier said than done bruh.

 

[charlie dark]

If you took Ali and gave him the same technological advances in sports that Lenox had in terms of supplements and whatnot...he'd win.
If you took Lenox and trained him the the way fighters were trained in the '60's and '70's...Ali would still win.

Ali was just a better fighter.

If you gave Ali the technological advances that Lennox was privy to it wouldn't be Ali and vice versa, we are then comparing fighters that are not only from different eras but fighters that didn't exist. That's like comparing Batman to Spiderman whose the tougher??? Am I wrong?

 

[charlie dark]

my man, you talkin' like a scientist here. if we have to play with numbers, i can do that too. First of all, I'll ask you to look up the poster of Ali when he knocked out Liston the second time. You know, the one when Ali is saying "get up chump". Look at his physique. I challenge you to show me one picture of Lennox Lewis when he was that "fit" as you put it. Ali was a specimen playa. Lennox Lewis in his prime was never that fit. And as far as today's fighters go, you show me one fighter, just one, that was more fit then Ali in his prime or George Foreman in his prime. These guys weren't just fit, they were chiseled man. Look at Kenny Norton in his prime. lennox Lewis was "cut" (somewhat). Mike Tyson was chiseled, and Evander. Who else? If you could clone a boxer and train one old school and one new school, the new school fighter may win. Where I'm gonna kill your theory is the fact that once again, nobody, and I mean nobody has or had Ali's skills. That wasn't taught to him or shot into him with an injection. He was born with that. You see, the sweet thing about boxing is, when you get a in the ring, it's man on man. nothing else. I could train Ali and Lou Duva could train an average opponent for Ali and Ali would whoop his ass. All that high speed training that Lennox got could never give him a chin. Could never make him fast, and could never give him Ali's foot speed. Lennox had no chin man. Can we agree on that? And why you bullshittin' Lennox heart was in question to me. Now that's subjective but I'm entitled to my opinion. Now, the chin thing, that's a fact. Some things you can't teach or train into someone. Now, let's try this angle, you tell ME where you think that Lewis had an advantage over Ali. And I don't mean the tale of the tape. I'll await you rebuttal. LOL! I love this shit.

They're not great images but Lennox definitely looks more buff than Ali.
Any fighter can be knocked out as Ali proved when that white boy Henry Cooper knocked him out.
When Ali threw shots alot of them were powder punches, but his timing was great. You need to watch his fights again, I'm sure someones posted it on this board, do a search.
Ali was more than a boxer he has and had iconic status, so that leads us to become emotive and passionate when talking about him, but science and time are on Lennox Lewis' side

 

[gene cisco]

Dingbats, styles make fights not eras!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First off George foreman fought at about 217-220, ali at about 205. Fraizer round 200.

Second off physical strength, what a heavyweight needs, is the last "skill" you loose, quickness goes first. That is why heavys can go past their eras, most just rely on strength, not tip tap punches. Bad example to say cause a heavy fought in another era that era is weak.

Third....again.................styles make fights, ali aint whooping everybodys ass!!!!



Could we imagine foreman facing ali knowing ali would "rope a dope" him, it would be crazy, foreman woul have killed him.

Then again could we imagine ali without the layoff?

could we imagine tyson had not cus died?

Could we imagine tyson/holyfield 91 instead of 96?

Boxing is crazy as shit.A more interesting topic is removing weight classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LordSinister]

Old Fat George Foreman = Heavyweight champion in the "modern era"

1975 Ali past his prime > Foreman

Ali greatest of all time.

These cats were simply tougher. I have seen Lennox knocked the fuck out like a chump with 1 hit.

Ali fought with a broken jaw cuzz. This ninjas jaw was broke in the first round and he finished the fight!!

I mean look at how tough Ken Norton junior was on the gridiron!! His daddy was tougher!!! You cannot compare the eras.

Look at the number of complete games in baseball, the number of full nba/nfl seasons played. The older generation didn't have the huge paydays and guaranteed contracts. They had to fight.

None of this buster Douglas get hit once and fall down bullshit.

 

[Gazoo]

As much as I love Ali, I'll take Lennox. Those who know, know. Lennox's style prior to the McCall was a mirror of Doug Jones. Lennox was a 240, not 180/190 Jones. The Clay - Jones fight should have been Ali's first lost. You beat Ali by offsetting the jab. It's what Ken Norton did and let's be honest, Norton won all three of those fights. Eddie Futch (greatest trainer of all time, either him or Ray Arcel) instructions: To beat Ali is easy. Offset (jab with him) his jab.




The old boxing adage is true. Styles makes fights. It's what gave De La Hoya his moments of success in the Mayweather fight. To this day, I have no idea why he abandoned his jab. It was working like clockwork.

Awkward ass fighters did tend to offset Ali. Fucking Norton and that crab style gave him fits as well as Jimmy Young's hanging outside the ropes.

 

[Duece]

Old Fat George Foreman = Heavyweight champion in the "modern era"

1975 Ali past his prime > Foreman

Ali greatest of all time.

These cats were simply tougher. I have seen Lennox knocked the fuck out like a chump with 1 hit.

Ali fought with a broken jaw cuzz. This ninjas jaw was broke in the first round and he finished the fight!!

I mean look at how tough Ken Norton junior was on the gridiron!! His daddy was tougher!!! You cannot compare the eras.

Look at the number of complete games in baseball, the number of full nba/nfl seasons played. The older generation didn't have the huge paydays and guaranteed contracts. They had to fight.

None of this buster Douglas get hit once and fall down bullshit.

boxing referees gave fighters alot more chances, too many times today mothafucka is waving his arms to say its over.

 

[LordSinister]

You should be banned for saying that shit!!

On the real though, Remember Du Ku Kim? Boxers used to go 15-20 rounds all the time back in the day.

 

[charlie dark]

Your trying to play "if this, then that". it don't work like that Bruh. Let me give you a for instance, Now, you're telling me that it stands to reason that since Rahman ( KO'd Lewis for the title) came 30 years after Ali, then he should be able to beat Ali? man, you don't believe THAT yo dam self. LOL! My man, you're trying to determine the outcome of a sporting event in a calculator. Everything in sports is not a statistic. As a matter of fact, there is a saying that goes "statisitcs are for losers". You're trying to take natural talent and the human spirit out of the equation because YOU can't measure it. I'm a student of sports. I've been playing ball and watching sports all my life. I watched my first fight in 1965. so, it goes without saying that I wasn't born last night. Now, I'm not discounting your knowledge because you're younger than me. However, your generation tends to think what happened yesterday (figuratively speaking) was the greatest thing of all time. It's just not so. You can't train "greatness". Muhhamed Ali was the Greatest fighter of all time. Lennox Lewis was a good fighter. The best in his era. I'll make another point here for you. Ali beat every fighter that was the quintessential fighter for "their" era. he beat Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Each one of these men were human wrecking machines. Liston was supposed to kill Ali. Ali TKO'd him. (if you don't answer the bell, that's considered a TKO). After three years off, Frazier was supposed to kill Ali. Frazier beat him on a split decision after less than a year back in the ring. Foreman was supposed to annihilate Ali. Ali knocked him out. Talk to me.

I'm not trying to belittle the talents of Ali.
I would say that he was the greatest Heavyweight of all time.But if you could miraculously transpose Ali then to a time when Lennox was at his prime, I don't think Ali would be able to cope.
People are bred bigger stronger and more powerful nowadays.
Don't forget that Ali was technically beaten by a skinny White guy called Henry Cooper, but fortunately for boxing Ali's corner managed to pull a few strokes.So he could get knocked out.
I even saw a video of that first fight with frazer and Ali was well and truly beaten in my humble opinion.People always think things were better when we were young compared to now, that's human nature but. But how can you ignore the history of all other sports which show performance improves generation to generation and say that it doesn't apply to boxing?

 

[nick177th]

They're not great images but Lennox definitely looks more buff than Ali.
Any fighter can be knocked out as Ali proved when that white boy Henry Cooper knocked him out.
When Ali threw shots alot of them were powder punches, but his timing was great. You need to watch his fights again, I'm sure someones posted it on this board, do a search.
Ali was more than a boxer he has and had iconic status, so that leads us to become emotive and passionate when talking about him, but science and time are on Lennox Lewis' side

I admire your resilience. here we go again. First of all, Henry Cooper didn't knock Ali out. He knocked him DOWN. Angie Dundee bought him some time in the corner but, Ali again, got right up after the knockdown. It wasn't like he barely beat the count getting up. As far as watching Ali's fights again, I have everyone of them from his last Olympic fight up until the first Frazier fight. since my word is not good enough for you, why don't you go to Ring magazine's website and YOU do a search on the Greatest to ever fight. As far as Ali throwing powder puff punches, you look at Henry Cooper's face in that fifth round when they stopped that fight. ali knocked a chunk of meat out of his eyebrow partner (literally). YOU look at the fight. I've seen it more times than you I'm sure. You still didn't address the point that I made about Ali beating Liston in his prime, Frazier in his prime and Foreman in his prime. That's not emotion, that's fact. You still won't give up that sports science stuff huh? It's all good though playboy. Lennox Lewis is not even mentioned as one of the greats. You're still trying to make Boxing an equation. It's just not that simple CD.

 

[nick177th]

If you gave Ali the technological advances that Lennox was privy to it wouldn't be Ali and vice versa, we are then comparing fighters that are not only from different eras but fighters that didn't exist. That's like comparing Batman to Spiderman whose the tougher??? Am I wrong?

I'm going to say it to you again. Ali trancends eras man. he could fight right now. Boxers today STILL don't have the skills he had 40 years ago. Now, Joe Louis (in my eyes) COULDN'T fight today. Too small, too slow. Bob Cousy couln't play in the NBA today. However, Michael Jordan could. (Oh, but that's not fair. Michael Jordan was the greatest to ever play). My point exactly. Mike trancends eras. You STILL don't see what I'm saying?

 

[Pack Rat]

Ali just toyed with half those fools...no one could touch him

Hip hop t-shirts, caps and jewelry
http://www.diamondndaruff.com:yes:

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

If you gave Ali the technological advances that Lennox was privy to it wouldn't be Ali and vice versa, we are then comparing fighters that are not only from different eras but fighters that didn't exist. That's like comparing Batman to Spiderman whose the tougher??? Am I wrong?

Someone brought up the point of fighters of this era being bigger (it could have been you, right now I don't feel like going back to read that shit.) But you have to understand that skill is skill and Ali's skills were better than Lenox's. Besides, all the technology in the world didn't make Lennox's jaw any less fragile which is why he was scared of counterpunchers.

Face facts: The Ali that was past his prime was beating better fighters than Lenox. Lenox in his prime was like Shaq in the NBA. Great fighter, but all his contemporaries were either too old and past their prime or not ready to do battle.

 

[nick177th]

Ali just toyed with half those fools...no one could touch him

Hip hop t-shirts, caps and jewelry
http://www.diamondndaruff.com:yes:

"Float like a Butterfly, Sting like a Bee. AHHHHHH! Rumble young man, Rumble! AHHHHH!"
Charlie Dark, look at that man's skills playa in the vidoe above. C'mon now. Boxers STILL can't do this.

 

[LordSinister]

This gif is bringing back childhood memories. I wasn't old enough to see Ali live before the Army beef, but I remember him still as the greatest.

 

[PimpJuice]

The one thing that Ali did to opponents was to get in their heads with the shit he talked. Foreman had that stone cold stare down as with Tyson. Even Lenox Lewis and Frazier had that stare down as well. Well, Frazier was just ugly as hell. But nobody talked shit like Ali in and out that ring. There are so many valid and interesting points on this thread. But like I said before Ali would have beaten Lennox Lewis because he was able to adjust to so many different fighters. Some of y'all brought up when Ali lost to that British white boy Henry Cooper. That was 1963 when Ali's name was Classius Clay. Keep it real fellas, Ali wasn't even in his prime yet. You shouldn't even think that Lennox could beat Ali because Lennox wouldn't be able to beat Foreman if all of these fighters were in their primes. I already broke down my points earlier.

Hey Nick, I remember seeing that fight a dozen times. Frazier was on top of the world when he was champ and styling like a king. Ali was muslum and so much support from the low income and struggling people and even much of the middle class at that time. So Ali was the favorite to beat Frazier in Ali vs Frazier (first fight of the two). Ali was just coming back with rage to get that stripped title and now he was to face the 'Uncle Tom' Joe Frazier that was awarded due to a vacated belt. I originally posted some wrong facts.

Here's that link to Henry Cooper beating Classius Clay (Ali)
3 min. Nick177th clarified that Ali won this fight and this vid confirms that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4uErQBRKM&mode=related&search=

 

[nick177th]

the skillz exhibited in the clip above (in Brother "Pack Rat's post) can not be coached, trained or excercised into a fighter. And for those who don't know, Ali (in his prime) did this in EVERY fight. This is not an isolated little clip. This is how the man fought. Hands down to his side, throwing counter punches or catching you with a right lead. Lennox Lewis was a good boxer and I emphasize "good". he couldn't have hit Ali if he HAD to. Boxers TODAY still can't fight like that. Least of all, heavyweights. And the other point that has been mentioned so many times in this thread. Lennox Lewis had no chin. That is a FACT. That is not subjective. Brother "Charlie Dark", keeps bringing up the "era" argument. I respectfully submit again that Ali's skills and talents trancend all of that. His skill level TO THIS DAY still haven't been matched.

 

[nick177th]

The one thing that Ali did to opponents was to get in their heads with the shit he talked. Foreman had that stone cold stare down as with Tyson. Even Lenox Lewis and Frazier had that stare down as well. Well, Frazier was just ugly as hell. But nobody talked shit like Ali in and out that ring. There are so many valid and interesting points on this thread. But like I said before Ali would have beaten Lennox Lewis because he was able to adjust to so many different fighters. Some of y'all brought up when Ali lost to that British white boy Henry Cooper. That was 1963 when Ali's name was Classius Clay. Keep it real fellas, Ali wasn't even in his prime yet. You shouldn't even think that Lennox could beat Ali because Lennox wouldn't be able to beat Foreman if all of these fighters were in their primes. I already broke down my points earlier.

Hey Nick, I remember seeing that fight a dozen times. Frazeir was on top of the world when he was champ and styling like a king. Ali was muslum and so much support from the low income and struggling people and even much of the middle class at that time. So Ali was the favorite to beat Frazier in Ali vs Frazier III.

Here's that link to Henry Cooper beating Classius Clay (Ali)
3 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4uErQBRKM&mode=related&search=

Brother Pimp Juice, I appreciate you supporting my view as well as the other Ali supporters but, I have to correct you. Ali did not lose to henry Cooper. Ali knocked Henry Cooper out (I should say TKO'd him in the fifth round).

 

[PimpJuice]

Brother Pimp Juice, I appreciate you supporting my view as well as the other Ali supporters but, I have to correct you. Ali did not lose to henry Cooper. Ali knocked Henry Cooper out (I should say TKO'd him in the fifth round).

Thanks for the correction. I never saw that fight but there was so much talk that Henry Cooper KO'd Ali so I posted the vid. I need to view it right now myself.