Should "hate crimes" be done away with?

MegaDell

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The first time I was introduced to this idea was years ago with south park, but I was like, 12 then. But I've been wondering, why do we have "hate crime" rules, and regular crime rules.

I mean, if you murder someone, because they fired you, why should that receive a lighter sentence than because they did not like the other guys race. I mean, you disliked the guy?

I mean, attempted murder is the same as murder. You had the desire to kill, and you carried it out. Just because you fuck up and don't kill the guy doesn't get you off. So, because I hate a guy for a certain reason, I get a worst sentence?

That doesn't make any sense. You had the desire to kill the person, and you carried it out. If you're of sound mind, that should be the end of it. And hate crimes should not exist. IMO.
 
A hate crime focuses on the fact that the only motivation for the crime is race, or gender. It's not the same as murder motivated by other reasons which is taken into account.

For a murder you plan it's called premeditated murder
If I kill someone out of anger (say road rage) it's considered 2nd degree murder- again depending on how long it took to get to the deed.

If I run someone over with my car by mistake it's not considered murder it's manslaughter because my intention was not to kill the person. Now if I see someone and decide that I think I want to run him/her over and do it then it's pre-meditated murder.

Take a look at how the laws are actually defined. You can find it in any law book. I would recommend you start here:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/journals/257/hate-crime.html#back6

Check the references in the article and read all of them to fully understand the debate and to come to an opinion based on facts.
 
You are absolutely right, crimes against other humans based on their race, creed, religion, sexual preference, should not exist. Unfortunately there are haters, abusers, molestors, killers. Laws were passed to protect innocents, who were born the right to be individuals, belong to certain groups, choose their preferences, beliefs and should be protected. Those who choose to assault physically and mentally them procecuted under specialized enhanced sentences, indisciminantly...
 
Sure, let the racists off the hook.

...I didn't say that. I said, if you murder someone, ON PURPOSE, than you shouldn't get a harsher sentence based on what particular thing you didn't like about the person you killed.

Whether I kill you because you slept with my wife, or you insulted my car, shouldn't matter.
 
`

. . . what about the other fact/situations which enhance sentencing:

- Killing an infant;

- Killing a police officer;

- Killing and dismembering the corpse; or

- Killing by burning down a day care center knowing there were children inside.​

Killing is killing. So, none of the above should "Enhance" the punishment, right ???

QueEx
 
`

. . . what about the other fact/situations which enhance sentencing:

- Killing an infant;

- Killing a police officer;

- Killing and dismembering the corpse; or

- Killing by burning down a day care center knowing there were children inside.​

Killing is killing. So, none of the above should "Enhance" the punishment, right ???

QueEx

Those are already grouped under something called "special circumstances" are they not?

I'd always thought to go after anybody because they hate someone goes over the line. I don't want to end up in jail because I hate faggots. But laws under hate crimes legislation would do that. There is even talk in california about putting pastors in jail if they teach homosexuality is an abomination..all stemming from hate crime law. Some here agree with it but get bent out of shape at a crack vs powder sentencing. I don't get it.
If you kill, laws on the books cover it. Life plus 99 years makes no damn sense.

-VG
 
`

. . . what about the other fact/situations which enhance sentencing:

- Killing an infant;

- Killing a police officer;

- Killing and dismembering the corpse; or

- Killing by burning down a day care center knowing there were children inside.​

Killing is killing. So, none of the above should "Enhance" the punishment, right ???

QueEx

Those are enhancement crimes yeah, like armed in the commission of a felony, enhancement for crimes commited in a school zone, etc.

Hate crimes are covered by a anything that is based on the crime, discrimainatory, deserves a harsher sentence, because, the victim, was especially targeted, because of who they are or what they do or believe in...
 
...I didn't say that. I said, if you murder someone, ON PURPOSE, than you shouldn't get a harsher sentence based on what particular thing you didn't like about the person you killed.

Whether I kill you because you slept with my wife, or you insulted my car, shouldn't matter.

You are misinformed. Hate crimes are used for example in a case like the Jena 6. If they had used the hate crime law when those cracker ass whites hung that noose over the tree limb, there would not have been all of the insuring issues. Read youngster and read history and the law, not Faux Snooze or worldnews.net!
 
You are misinformed. Hate crimes are used for example in a case like the Jena 6. If they had used the hate crime law when those cracker ass whites hung that noose over the tree limb, there would not have been all of the insuring issues. Read youngster and read history and the law, not Faux Snooze or worldnews.net!

That Jena 6 issue was bullshit. I'm not excusing hanging a noose on a tree, but that does not excuse jumping some kid. I mean, people get offended all the time, that doesn't give them the right to beat the shit out of someone. Sticks and stones man. Hurting your feelings is tough shit. You allow others to offend you. No one has control over your emotions.

You totally misread what I said. How could you have possibly thought I meant that people who cause harm to others due to race should be excused? I mean, it's like you didn't even read anything, not even the thread title.
 
`

. . . what about the other fact/situations which enhance sentencing:

- Killing an infant;

- Killing a police officer;

- Killing and dismembering the corpse; or

- Killing by burning down a day care center knowing there were children inside.​

Killing is killing. So, none of the above should "Enhance" the punishment, right ???

QueEx

Killing a person on purpose should get the same sentence. You can't change the law based on whether the violation at hand offends you personally.
 
...I didn't say that. I said, if you murder someone, ON PURPOSE, than you shouldn't get a harsher sentence based on what particular thing you didn't like about the person you killed.

Whether I kill you because you slept with my wife, or you insulted my car, shouldn't matter.

Crimes of passion and disrespect are spontanesous, for the most part, do you agree. Hate crimes are much different and are based on a deepseated resentment for a particular dislike, are premeditated and worthy of special circumstances.

Why so much emphasis on hate crimes anyhow...?!!!:hmm:
 
That Jena 6 issue was bullshit. I'm not excusing hanging a noose on a tree, but that does not excuse jumping some kid. I mean, people get offended all the time, that doesn't give them the right to beat the shit out of someone. Sticks and stones man. Hurting your feelings is tough shit. You allow others to offend you. No one has control over your emotions.

You totally misread what I said. How could you have possibly thought I meant that people who cause harm to others due to race should be excused? I mean, it's like you didn't even read anything, not even the thread title.

Well said dude.

-VG
 
That Jena 6 issue was bullshit. but that does not excuse jumping some kid. I mean, people get offended all the time, that doesn't give them the right to beat the shit out of someone. Sticks and stones man. Hurting your feelings is tough shit. You allow others to offend you. No one has control over your emotions.

You totally misread what I said. How could you have possibly thought I meant that people who cause harm to others due to race should be excused? I mean, it's like you didn't even read anything, not even the thread title.

"I'm not excusing hanging a noose on a tree,..."

Yes you are! You people have never raised what should have been done to the whites that initiated the incident. But of course the massa lovin' republicans will do that. And for all you that are ignorant of the history of racial intimidation in the United States, particularly, the southern United States, the documentary "I Eyes On The Prize" will be airing on your local PBS station in the upcoming weeks. Those that are historically ignorant (republicans and conservatives) will avoid it.
 
That Jena 6 issue was bullshit. I'm not excusing hanging a noose on a tree, but that does not excuse jumping some kid. I mean, people get offended all the time, that doesn't give them the right to beat the shit out of someone. Sticks and stones man. Hurting your feelings is tough shit. You allow others to offend you. No one has control over your emotions.

You totally misread what I said. How could you have possibly thought I meant that people who cause harm to others due to race should be excused? I mean, it's like you didn't even read anything, not even the thread title.


A noose hung, is symbolic of the magnitude of enslavement, suffering and oppression black people have endured.

Until it happens in your community your neighborhood your university your office, dont relate your life, to a whole race's suffrage, you a a meager drop in the bucket and somewhat superficial, don't take your life for granted...
 
Crimes of passion and disrespect are spontanesous, for the most part, do you agree. Hate crimes are much different and are based on a deepseated resentment for a particular dislike, are premeditated and worthy of special circumstances.

Why so much emphasis on hate crimes anyhow...?!!!:hmm:

How is a single thread putting so much emphasis on hate crime?
 
A noose hung, is symbolic of the magnitude of enslavement, suffering and oppression black people have endured.

Until it happens in your community your neighborhood your university your office, dont relate your life, to a whole race's suffrage, you a a meager drop in the bucket and somewhat superficial, don't take your life for granted...

People get insults thrown at them all the time. And I'm taying, tough, deal with it, or you're not gonna get anywhere. It's like when athiest cry over having the word god on money and in the pledge of alliegence.

Sure, you can let yourself get offended all you want, but your right to not have your feelings hurt ends the second you come in unwanted contact with someone.

They should have let the law run its course, not get a buncha friends and stomp some idiots head.
 
"I'm not excusing hanging a noose on a tree,..."

Yes you are! You people have never raised what should have been done to the whites that initiated the incident. But of course the massa lovin' republicans will do that. And for all you that are ignorant of the history of racial intimidation in the United States, particularly, the southern United States, the documentary "I Eyes On The Prize" will be airing on your local PBS station in the upcoming weeks. Those that are historically ignorant (republicans and conservatives) will avoid it.

I'm not excusing it, but I'm not gonna applaud some kids for attacking someone because thier widdle feelings were hurt.

And for people to try and excuse what they did? Yea, hanging that noose up was wrong, but that does not excuse what they did. You know the whole, two wrongs don't make a right thing? Shit, if it was so important they all should have just plead guilty and stood by what they did, and everyone could shut the fuck up about it
 
Unfortunately race is a powerful motivator for murder.:smh:"Hate Crimes" or more accurately stated racially motivated crimes must be punished with extreme severity as a deterrent to this kind of behavior. Any argument to the contrary cannot be based on historical evidence. See attached for my references.

The Holocaust
prisoner8.JPEG

Lynching
event_omaha_courthouse_lynching.jpg

Bosnia
Bosna-logor%20Trnopolje%2092.jpg

Dar fur
DARFUR.CHILD.MURDERED.JPG


I apologize to everyone that suffered in great racially motivated massacres not shown above, those that walked The Trail Of Tears, the Kurds, Palestinians, the Australian Aborignes...:smh::smh:
 
I'm not excusing it, but I'm not gonna applaud some kids for attacking someone because thier widdle feelings were hurt.

And for people to try and excuse what they did? Yea, hanging that noose up was wrong, but that does not excuse what they did. You know the whole, two wrongs don't make a right thing? Shit, if it was so important they all should have just plead guilty and stood by what they did, and everyone could shut the fuck up about it

Evidently I have to educate you. For years whites would wear white sheets, burn crosses, hang nooses to intimidate people in to capitulating in to not “upsetting” the “traditions” of certain regions. When people complained about these symbols of intimidation, the argument of freedom of speech was used as a justification. Many law enforcement agencies were involved in such intimidations. Today, such symbols bring back horrific memories from such freedom of speech to the survivors, victims and their families that bare the scars of such actions. As I said, you need to watch “Eyes On The Prize” because you are so out of touch with your history, as an American and as a Black person. If you are Black!

And go back and recount the events that lead up to the Jena Incident, its not ancient history.
 
i think the purpose of acknowledging "hate crimes" was to bring attention to crimes that are over-looked. because some people in society are considered less than, they had to create this category of "hate crimes" in order to acknowledge that there was an actual crime being commited.

i think an interesting debate would be...

are certain people in our society still considered less-than and are crimes against these groups considered to be not as bad?

its also a grey area because anything can be a hate crime, if you beat up some bald dude, can he claim that you have an anti-bald bias? :lol:

i dunno man, im just rambling...hahaha
 
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Unfortunately race is a powerful motivator for murder.:smh:"Hate Crimes" or more accurately stated racially motivated crimes must be punished with extreme severity as a deterrent to this kind of behavior. Any argument to the contrary cannot be based on historical evidence. See attached for my references.



I apologize to everyone that suffered in great racially motivated massacres not shown above, those that walked The Trail Of Tears, the Kurds, Palestinians, the Australian Aborignes...:smh::smh:

Let's keep some prospective. What we are talking about is a legislative process. What YOU are talking about is genocide. Not even close to the same thing.

-VG
 
What we call racism is really a pathological disorder, there is no emotion known as racism, there should be a law to deal with it. People should not be able to take their hang-ups out on other people. If you want to make a case for abolishing hate crimes the question is should white people be held liable for exhibiting behavior that was intentionally bred into them.
 
Hate crime laws are a special kind of stupidity. They cheapen lives by political fiat and trends. Murder is murder. The result is the same. You can use details in sentancing phase, which is done in felony cases anyway. If you rape and kill my mother, and I happen to be white, it's a slap in the face to tell her family that the killers would have gotten more time if she were black. That is what hate crimes must do. Also, the whole madness about charging somebody for hanging a noose is ridiculous in itself. The display of a noose is speech if that is all that is being done. If it's in conjunction whith something else, than it can be used as evidence of the underlying activity, just like hand jestures can be. We already have laws on the books controlling actions, and it should stay that way.
 
What we call racism is really a pathological disorder, there is no emotion known as racism, there should be a law to deal with it. People should not be able to take their hang-ups out on other people. If you want to make a case for abolishing hate crimes the question is should white people be held liable for exhibiting behavior that was intentionally bred into them.

If it is a “pathological disorder,” then it is a disorder of “white people” as Albert Einstein put it.

source: Harvard Gazette Online

Albert Einstein, Civil Rights activist
Little-known aspect of physicist’s life revealed
By Ken Gewertz
Harvard News Office
Einstein’s response to the racism and segregation he found in Princeton was to cultivate relationships in the town’s African-American community. Jerome and Taylor interviewed members of that community who still remember the white-haired, disheveled figure of Einstein strolling through their streets, stopping to chat with the inhabitants, and handing out candy to local children.

Here’s something you probably don’t know about Albert Einstein.

In 1946, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist traveled to Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, the alma mater of Langston Hughes and Thurgood Marshall and the first school in America to grant college degrees to blacks. At Lincoln, Einstein gave a speech in which he called racism “a disease of white people,” and added, “I do not intend to be quiet about it.” He also received an honorary degree and gave a lecture on relativity to Lincoln students.

The reason Einstein’s visit to Lincoln is not better known is that it was virtually ignored by the mainstream press, which regularly covered Einstein’s speeches and activities. (Only the black press gave extensive coverage to the event.) Nor is there mention of the Lincoln visit in any of the major Einstein biographies or archives.

In fact, many significant details are missing from the numerous studies of Einstein’s life and work, most of them having to do with Einstein’s opposition to racism and his relationships with African Americans.

That these omissions need to be recognized and corrected is the contention of Fred Jerome and Rodger Taylor, authors of “Einstein on Race and Racism” (Rutgers University Press, 2006). Jerome and Taylor spoke April 3 at an event sponsored by the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. The event also featured remarks by Sylvester James Gates Jr., the John S. Toll Professor of Physics, University of Maryland.

According to Jerome and Taylor, Einstein’s statements at Lincoln were by no means an isolated case. Einstein, who was Jewish, was sensitized to racism by the years of Nazi-inspired threats and harassment he suffered during his tenure at the University of Berlin. Einstein was in the United States when the Nazis came to power in 1933, and, fearful that a return to Germany would place him in mortal danger, he decided to stay, accepting a position at the recently founded Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, N.J. He became an American citizen in 1940.

But while Einstein may have been grateful to have found a safe haven, his gratitude did not prevent him from criticizing the ethical shortcomings of his new home.

“Einstein realized that African Americans in Princeton were treated like Jews in Germany,” said Taylor. “The town was strictly segregated. There was no high school that blacks could go to until the 1940s.”

Einstein’s response to the racism and segregation he found in Princeton (Paul Robeson, who was born in Princeton, called it “the northernmost town in the South”) was to cultivate relationships in the town’s African-American community. Jerome and Taylor interviewed members of that community who still remember the white-haired, disheveled figure of Einstein strolling through their streets, stopping to chat with the inhabitants, and handing out candy to local children.

One woman remembered that Einstein paid the college tuition of a young man from the community. Another said that he invited Marian Anderson to stay at his home when the singer was refused a room at the Nassau Inn.

Einstein met Paul Robeson when the famous singer and actor came to perform at Princeton’s McCarter Theatre in 1935. The two found they had much in common. Both were concerned about the rise of fascism, and both gave their support to efforts to defend the democratically elected government of Spain against the fascist forces of Francisco Franco. Einstein and Robeson also worked together on the American Crusade to End Lynching, in response to an upsurge in racial murders as black soldiers returned home in the aftermath of World War II.

The 20-year friendship between Einstein and Robeson is another story that has not been told, Jerome said, but that omission may soon be rectified. A movie is in the works about the relationship, with Danny Glover slated to play Robeson and Ben Kingsley as Einstein.

Einstein continued to support progressive causes through the 1950s, when the pressure of anti-Communist witch hunts made it dangerous to do so. Another example of Einstein using his prestige to help a prominent African American occurred in 1951, when the 83-year-old W.E.B. Du Bois, a founder of the NAACP, was indicted by the federal government for failing to register as a “foreign agent” as a consequence of circulating the pro-Soviet Stockholm Peace Petition. Einstein offered to appear as a character witness for Du Bois, which convinced the judge to drop the case.

Gates, an African-American physicist who has appeared on the PBS show Nova, said that Einstein had been a hero of his since he learned about the theory of relativity as a teenager, but that he was unaware of Einstein’s ideas on civil rights until fairly recently.

Einstein’s approach to problems in physics was to begin by asking very simple, almost childlike questions, such as, “What would the world look like if I could drive along a beam of light?” Gates said.

“He must have developed his ideas about race through a similar process. He was capable of asking the question, ‘What would my life be like if I were black?’”

Gates said that thinking about Einstein’s involvement with civil rights has prompted him to speculate on the value of affirmative action and the goal of diversity it seeks to bring about. There are many instances in which the presence of strength and resilience in a system can be attributed to diversity.

“In the natural world, for example, when a population is under the influence of a stressful environment, diversity ensures its survival,” Gates said.

On a cultural level, the global influence of American popular music might be attributed to the fact that it is an amalgam of musical traditions from Europe and Africa.

These examples have led him to conclude that “diversity actually matters, independent of the moral argument.” Gates said he believes “there is a science of diversity out there waiting for scholars to discover it.”
 
Unfortunately race is a powerful motivator for murder.:smh:"Hate Crimes" or more accurately stated racially motivated crimes must be punished with extreme severity as a deterrent to this kind of behavior. Any argument to the contrary cannot be based on historical evidence. See attached for my references.

The Holocaust
prisoner8.JPEG

Lynching
event_omaha_courthouse_lynching.jpg

Bosnia
Bosna-logor%20Trnopolje%2092.jpg

Dar fur
DARFUR.CHILD.MURDERED.JPG


I apologize to everyone that suffered in great racially motivated massacres not shown above, those that walked The Trail Of Tears, the Kurds, Palestinians, the Australian Aborignes...:smh::smh:

Yea ummm, it's not a detterent. It clearly doesn't work in that fashion. It deters people from killing as much as regular murder crimes do. And yea, genocide isn't something a person, or even a large group of people do.
 
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