Are historically black colleges good for blacks?

Decon Frost

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Fisk University is in such dire financial straits that it is considering selling off part of its valuable art collection. The Nashville, Tenn., school is one of the nation's 103 historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs), and its money problems raise an obvious question: Half a century after Brown v. Board of Education, should we still support an institution of higher education that is less than 1% white?

In 1992, the Supreme Court held in U.S. v. Fordice that racially identifiable institutions of higher education in Mississippi were a holdover from the state's Jim Crow past. The plaintiffs wanted more state funding for historically black schools, but the court turned them down, seeing the ghost of "separate but equal."

The district court, which then had to fashion a remedy for the dual system, proposed eliminating all but one of the traditionally black colleges in the state. If only one of the HBCUs in Mississippi remained, that would solve the problem of racially separate campuses, since it would force almost all black students to attend schools that were majority white. This prompted the NAACP, in the summer of 1994, to organize a civil-rights march to save Mississippi Valley State University. In a strange turn of events, the preservation of an allegedly "segregated" institution became a black cause. "It's important . . . for blacks to hang onto something and call it their own," one student explained to the Chronicle of Higher Education


Almost all of the HBCUs were created at a time when Southern blacks were excluded from other schools (only four of the HBCUs are outside the South). They turned out doctors, lawyers, ministers and politicians. W.E.B. Du Bois graduated from Fisk in 1888, Thurgood Marshall from Lincoln (Chester County, Pa.) in 1930, and Martin Luther King Jr. from Morehouse (Atlanta) in 1948. As recently as 1960, these schools were the choice of almost two-thirds of black college students.
They are no longer exclusively for blacks. But they are racially identifiable--much more so than most of the urban public schools that liberal critics routinely denounce as disastrously "segregated." Well over 80% of their students, and more than six out of 10 faculty members, are African-American. These institutions are defined by a commitment to a black identity that, for many students, remains meaningful. Morehouse, for instance, proudly advertises itself as "The Best College in the Nation for Educating African Americans."

But overwhelmingly white institutions are also eager for a significant black presence. If all educational doors are so wide open to black students and professors, should we really hope that schools such as Fisk survive? At the height of the civil-rights movement, some thoughtful observers expressed grave doubts. Research by Christopher Jencks and David Riesman concluded that these "by-products of the Southern caste system" were usually an "ill-financed, ill-staffed caricature of white higher education." The "great majority [stood] near the end of the academic procession in terms of student aptitudes, faculty competence, and intellectual ferment." And it seemed self-evident that the demise of Jim Crow would make these schools even weaker by exposing them to new competition. Their best students and teachers would have choices denied earlier generations of African-Americans, and few would choose even the better HBCUs like Howard over Harvard.

In fact, while the proportion of black students educated in HBCUs has fallen sharply with a significant rise in the total number of blacks attending college, in absolute numbers enrollment in these schools has grown substantially.

Perhaps they continue to thrive because they do an excellent job of making sure their students actually get a diploma. Getting into college is not the great problem for blacks in higher education today; staying and graduating is. The dropout rate at the HBCUs is high, but considerably lower than at the typical majority-white school. Although only a 10th of all African-Americans attend HBCUs, they award over a fifth of all bachelor's degrees earned by blacks. And yet they do not attract students from unusually affluent and educated homes.

Admittedly, their academic standards may still be relatively low. And it may still be the case, as Messrs. Jencks and Riesman wrote, that they tend to "graduate anyone who perseveres." But academic expectations are also low elsewhere, and black students still drop out in alarmingly large numbers.

The HBCUs have an advantage over even the selective traditionally white colleges: There is no mismatch between black student qualifications and the academic demands of the schools. No students are preferentially admitted--given a break in a system of racial double standards. And once they enroll at an HBCU, they can feel free to major in more difficult subjects, knowing that they will not be unprepared for the coursework.

In fact, a remarkable 40% of all African-Americans with a bachelor's degree in the physical sciences, and 38% of those who majored in math or the biological sciences, attended HBCUs. Conversely, almost no students at HBCUs gravitate to black studies, gender studies and the like. Moreover, among blacks who earned a Ph.D. in the late 1990s, 31% had done their undergraduate work at HBCUs. Messrs. Jencks and Riesman, writing in the '60s, complained that the schools were "traditional," rather than "progressive" and "harked back to an earlier period of white academic history." But their academic conservatism may be the secret to their success.

An impressive recent study by the economists Roland Fryer and Michael Greenstone suggests that HBCUs are not what they used to be. In the 1970s, compared with black students at other institutions, students at HBCUs went on to jobs that paid significantly higher wages. By the 1990s that labor-market advantage had disappeared. There was no "brain drain" into better white schools; the measurable academic credentials of black students at HBCUs relative to those at largely white schools had not changed. So what happened?

It is possible that the Fryer and Greenstone finding may reflect the special historical circumstances of the 1970s, when employers first came under pressure to hire a more racially diverse work force and found it most efficient to comply with affirmative-action mandates by recruiting at schools in which most job applicants would be African-American. By the 1990s these pressures may have eased, or employers may have developed other strategies for dealing with them.





Whatever the true story (and the inadequacies of the data make a definitive judgment difficult), the evidence does not indicate that HBCUs are "the best" schools for African-Americans across the board, as some enthusiasts claim. But they do seem to meet a real need, serving their students well in important respects.
In a free society, many private and public institutions will have a distinctive profile. Group clustering is not necessarily unhealthy; indeed, it's an inescapable feature of a multiethnic nation. No one worries that there are "too many" Jews at Yeshiva and Brandeis, "too many" Catholics at Notre Dame and Holy Cross, "too many" Mormons at Brigham Young. And so it should be with Howard, Fisk and Mississippi Valley State. That's what democratic pluralism means.

Ms. Thernstrom is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Mr. Thernstrom is a professor of history at Harvard University.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110010929

Response

HBCUs Don't Attract Top Students
Karen Karne - Aberdeen, Md.

I work at one of the nation's most advanced computer facilities. Every year, we offer a paid internship for college students which is very popular. One year, the new director decided that all applicants had to come from an Historically Black College or University. The result was dismissal. The interns had no basic understanding of math, science or logic. They didn't want to do any work at all. Never again did the center select interns from exclusively HBCUs.

The simple truth is these schools are holdovers from the past. Blacks can get into competitive schools just like everyone else. Those who end up in the HBCUs are the bottom of the barrel.
 
The simple truth is these schools are holdovers from the past. Blacks can get into competitive schools just like everyone else. Those who end up in the HBCUs are the bottom of the barrel.

As a student at Morehouse, I would have to disagree... As I prepare to get my Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics concentrating on Mathematical Physics, I refuse to believe that I am from the "bottom of the barrel."
I will say that there are several students at Morehouse who don't exemplify the greatness of the school; but in the next coming years, with a new President at the reigns, the school has increased their requirements and expectations of incoming freshman.
There are still great men who come out of Morehouse, and other HBCU's, who continue on to do great things...
Or maybe its just the people I know... The ones who continue to get their Ph.D.'s in in the sciences at Ivy Leauge schools or those who already are authors attending Harvard Law... Or the doctors... or the one who becomes House Representatives straight out of Morehouse... All the ones who went directly from the Business Department to 6 figure jobs off Wall Street immediately after Graduation... "from the bottom of the barrel."
I can only speak for my institution, but if we're the bottom of the barrel, then I really want to meet those from the "top"
 
SOME ppl at the top didn't even attend college.. Some ppl at the top attended a HBCU coughOprahcough...but i guess shes at the bottom of the barrel right

bitch-please.jpg
 
Its all up to the student and school. You can get a education anywhere, its just a matter of how much you put into it. Its also the schools job to provide a good learning enviorment and good resourses for the kids to learn. I think its easier for black kids to learn at a HBCU since the majority around them looks like them. With that said it will be my kids deciscion if they choose to go to one. I really don't want them there due to the high cost and the fact that they can go to a state college much cheaper and leave college with very little to no debt, but if they want the experience of a HBCU I'm all for it, I just hope I can afford it and they dont' end up oweing so much money.
 
Colleges are judged by their reputation for producing the best and brightest. Students want their degree to be respected in the job world so they can command the highest salaries. Some companies don't bother recruiting at colleges that are not top tier. And being black in amerikkka you need all the good rep you can get.

However a student should choose a school whose environment brings out the best in him/her. Some very bright students do poorly at highly competitive school such as harvard and yale.

But a school with financial problems, who knows how much of the student's tuition is used to pay debt rather than educating the student.
 
There seems to be a false premise here that HBCU's are not competitive or are sub-standard? :smh:
 
I don't think it's fair to say that whoever goes to an HBCU is at the bottom of the barrel.
 
As a student at Morehouse, I would have to disagree... As I prepare to get my Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics concentrating on Mathematical Physics, I refuse to believe that I am from the "bottom of the barrel."
I will say that there are several students at Morehouse who don't exemplify the greatness of the school; but in the next coming years, with a new President at the reigns, the school has increased their requirements and expectations of incoming freshman.
There are still great men who come out of Morehouse, and other HBCU's, who continue on to do great things...
Or maybe its just the people I know... The ones who continue to get their Ph.D.'s in in the sciences at Ivy Leauge schools or those who already are authors attending Harvard Law... Or the doctors... or the one who becomes House Representatives straight out of Morehouse... All the ones who went directly from the Business Department to 6 figure jobs off Wall Street immediately after Graduation... "from the bottom of the barrel."
I can only speak for my institution, but if we're the bottom of the barrel, then I really want to meet those from the "top"



it depends on the school.... the education quality from Morehouse is going to be that much better then colleges like Fisk who can't afford teachers and the necessary tools needed.
 
Depends on who you ask.. For me it was cool, however they will fuck up your financial aid royally :smh:
 
There will always be a place for HBCUs. It is true that they do not get all of the best students.

But they do serve a purpose. A purpose that we need more of even now.
 
Depends on who you ask.. For me it was cool, however they will fuck up your financial aid royally :smh:

You went to college just to become a Pig? You know the police force takes highschool dropouts right? Intelligence is not a prerequisite to becoming a cop.
LOL@this nigga hustling backwards. :lol::lol::lol:
 
after all HBCU's have accomplished people STILL question them? What is wrong with us

For a lot of us, the fact that white folks don't go means there is something wrong with them. Ask the OP if he'd rather go to University of Phoenix Online or Morehouse and see what kind of response you get.
 
You went to college just to become a Pig? You know the police force takes highschool dropouts right? Intelligence is not a prerequisite to becoming a cop.
LOL@this nigga hustling backwards. :lol::lol::lol:

How bout you answer the suspect comments you made on SOHH? better yet how bout this, most people graduating college with degrees don't got a fuckin job you clown ass faggot.


And lastly there are many cops with degrees, if you knew any better they hustle that into becoming attorneys and Forensic scientist but you would not know shit about that would you homo-seed?
 
I've never been to a HBCU, but here is my opinion looking from the outside in. HBCU need to change their style of learning. I've done enough reading to know that the grade point system ain't worth a shit even though every major university use it. There are other ways of learning HBCUs can develop instead of grading people on the grade point system. Another thing HBCUs need to do is start teaching trades and skills. 4 year schools usually don't go this route. HBCU can develop a lot of independent brothas this way.
 
Yes, I believe HBCU are good for blacks.

They provide students with more help and assistance with course work they may have trouble understanding than white institutions.

In many predominately white universities, many black students struggle understanding the subject matter and recieve very little help from instructors.

In most white universities, instructors usually DON'T keep their office hours to help students.

Therefore, many blacks end up getting kick out of school because of poor grades.

Sure, white schools are luring many blacks to their schools thru scholarships, interships, etc... but once there the students are on their own.

Also, some HBCU have superior programs such as Engineering. In fact, Southern's Engineering and Law programs is said to be better than LSU program. In fact, those programs have a higher enrollment than LSU.
 
How bout you answer the suspect comments you made on SOHH? better yet how bout this, most people graduating college with degrees don't got a fuckin job you clown ass faggot.


And lastly there are many cops with degrees, if you knew any better they hustle that into becoming attorneys and Forensic scientist but you would not know shit about that would you homo-seed?

Yeah but you aint smart enough to become an attorney or a Forensic Scientist. You pretty much already hit the high point of your career. The fact that someone like you made the force, even with a degree, shows how low their standards are. Did they even give your stupid ass a gun? Loser.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
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:smh: @ the op. Your post screams race bait

Went to Hampton, did my thing there which led to me getting into Columbia for grad school and did well there amidst all manner of isms. I make a decent living and hope to start a business soon. I would say that my HBCU did its job well and was a significant part of my growth from slacker to success. :yes:
 
umm, Hampton had shitty dorms (in 98), high tuition (16,000), niggas whose parents could afford tuition, standin on the corners hustlin weed in the Harbors apartments across from the library, sub-standard food and health procedures (the cafe, big and small, and gourmet services was shut down by the health department. Financial Aid/transcript blunders, plus registration issues due to lack of updated computer equipment. Other registration issues stemming from the fact that they overbooked the school, because an appreciable % of students will be "out by 5" just late enough in the semester/year to NOT get the tuition refund. hmmm what else........we wont even start on the nuances, that are only exacerbated because of, and I hate to say this, NEGROES. I visited my boys at VA Tech and saw all types of shit, their indoor bowling/entertinment/athletic center/union was OLD in 1998, ours was 2 years late and came just in time for graduation pictures to be taken in one of the sweet back conference rooms! I could have been at va tech for 4000 bucks a semester, but since Harvard didnt want mom dukes back in 58 and she went to dillard/georgetown, Pressure was felt to go to Howard (head of surgery Dr.burke syphax was my next door neighbor) cause i was born in D.C. and its local, or famu cause the both sides of the fam is from Florida, and half of em went there. I had a scolarship to UVA for soccer, but.......no soccer team at hampton, howards is garbage.....I should have joined the fuckin Navy, and flown, like I was going to...... I'd be getting a f-22 raptor soon, cause its easier to train new, than convert from f-15/f-18/f-14............. :(:(:(

Yes, Im still bitter....:angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
If we don't support them they go away or the School get state grants to give scholarship to let in the minorities. This has happened at so many of the HBCU already. :smh: :smh: :smh:
 
Yeah but you aint smart enough to become an attorney or a Forensic Scientist. You pretty much already hit the high point of your career. The fact that someone like you made the force, even with a degree, shows how low their standards are. Did they even give your stupid ass a gun? Loser.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
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Do you wish to answer the statements you made about fucking another man in the ass? why you avoiding homo thug? your card been pulled on here.

I won't even entertain your bitch ass, you have already been exposed as a certified homo.

I'll stick to a already positive thread minus your bitch ass being in here, Just know I obtained my degree already and like my career very much. How bout you? oh wait nevermind you need to answer why you made those homo ass comments about fucking another dude in the ass. :lol:
 
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