How much power did the average man to criticize presidents before Obama got in office?

[totto]

Does anyone remember the old days? I want to know if before Obama became president in 2008 if random dudes could make tons of money off Obama just by criticizing him? I don't remember people having outlets to complain much under Bush, you complained after he left office and sent kids to die in Iraq.

I don't remember much but I kinda feel all this grifting stuff became big once a black man got in office, started with the tea party and people made moves to get bigger and bigger.

Maybe I'm wrong

 

[Mello Mello]

It did become big after Obama because you gotta remember Obama being elected benefited a lot from social media which was growing new wings in terms of how information was passed and how current events and political news was shared.

The Heritage Foundation has been building up counter measures since Obamas election to make sure a stronger white far right conservative identity is maintained to curb any future minority aspirants to presidency.

Now social media is flooded with bots, lies and counter accusations to ruin the discourse on what’s real and sew dissent and division. Everything is done to ruin the moral currency of any group or organization trying to push progressive ideas.

Grifters like Kirk were just mouthpieces to subvert truth for profit and to further far right agenda. People didnt trust politicians as much as they do regular dudes who appear to come from the bottom.

 

[yureeka9]

It did become big after Obama because you gotta remember Obama being elected benefited a lot from social media which was growing new wings in terms of how information was passed and how current events and political news was shared.

The Heritage Foundation has been building up counter measures since Obamas election to make sure a stronger white far right conservative identity is maintained to curb any future minority aspirants to presidency.

Now social media is flooded with bots, lies and counter accusations to ruin the discourse on what’s real and sew dissent and division. Everything is done to ruin the moral currency of any group or organization trying to push progressive ideas.

Grifters like Kirk were just mouthpieces to subvert truth for profit and to further far right agenda. People didnt trust politicians as much as they do regular dudes who appear to come from the bottom.

Bingo! Social media and the Obama era coincided at the worst possible time. It gave voice to any idiot with an internet connection and became the new normal.

 

[Non-StopJFK2TAB]

Bingo! Social media and the Obama era coincided at the worst possible time. It gave voice to any idiot with an internet connection and became the new normal.

Social media is current. What happened during the inception of TV, radio, and the press? Rich folks been using media to engage in shenanigans. Do you know the bullshit that was going on in the press after the Civil War?

Phillip Kadish just wrote about this subject.

 

[christop]

Not random dudes since social media really wasn't there yet, but people have always made money criticizing presidents. Probably politics and sports have always been the two easiest avenues.

 

[God-Of-War-420]

People have been making a career criticizing the president since there's been a platform to do so lol George W Bush was a gold nine just to name a Republican, hell there where cartoons made about GW

 

[Ceenote]

Does anyone remember the old days? I want to know if before Obama became president in 2008 if random dudes could make tons of money off Obama just by criticizing him? I don't remember people having outlets to complain much under Bush, you complained after he left office and sent kids to die in Iraq.

I don't remember much but I kinda feel all this grifting stuff became big once a black man got in office, started with the tea party and people made moves to get bigger and bigger.

Maybe I'm wrong

Your not wrong bruh! Social media has help and hurt many..if i had to say more people than ever are depressed..just my opinion

 

[^SpiderMan^]

I first noticed it when Dan Quayle was the president, then George W. Bush. Both were publicly called stupid. Obama was the start of Social Media which gives more access and criticism is getting bigger and more disrespectful every presidecy.

 

[doug777]

Does anyone remember the old days? I want to know if before Obama became president in 2008 if random dudes could make tons of money off Obama just by criticizing him? I don't remember people having outlets to complain much under Bush, you complained after he left office and sent kids to die in Iraq.

I don't remember much but I kinda feel all this grifting stuff became big once a black man got in office, started with the tea party and people made moves to get bigger and bigger.

Maybe I'm wrong

All this hyperpartisanship started with the Clinton administration; the right had twelve straight years of ruling the executive branch, and really thought there wouldn't be another Democratic president anytime in the near future; in fact, they couldn't envision a Democratic president ever again. When Clinton won, the right lost its mind, went after Clinton relentlessly for eight years, and it's been getting steadily worse since then.

 

[doug777]

I first noticed it when Dan Quayle was the president, then George W. Bush. Both were publicly called stupid. Obama was the start of Social Media which gives more access and criticism is getting bigger and more disrespectful every presidecy.

Quale was Bush Sr.'s VP. Quale was a pretty quiet VP, but he got his stupid rep because in front of the cameras, he tried to correct a grade school kid's spelling of potato by telling him it was missing an e. No one thought Bush Sr. was stupid; he was once the head of the CIA. As I said in another thread, W. came off as a little goofy at times, but he does have degrees from both Harvard and Yale, as well as being a former jet pilot.

 

[MisterT]

Quale was Bush Sr.'s VP. Quale was a pretty quiet VP, but he got his stupid rep because in front of the cameras, he tried to correct a grade school kid's spelling of potato by telling him it was missing an e. No one thought Bush Sr. was stupid; he was once the head of the CIA. As I said in another thread, W. came off as a little goofy at times, but he does have degrees from both Harvard and Yale, as well as being a former jet pilotQuayle said and did some dumb things but you don't grauduate from Indiana's Shool of Law being dumb. The amount of reading recalling required to graduate ANY law school and pass the bar is just staggering!

Agreed! The staggering amount of reading and recall required in order to graduate from ANY law school, and Indiana's School of Law in particular, negates any possibility of a graduate being "dumb". Quayle just suffered FAR more than his fair share of public misfirings. Maybe it was nerves, poor sleep, drugs (prescription and/or illicit), inadequate preparation ... I don't know, but he is certainly the poster child for intelligent men saying DUMB shit!

"Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here."
(Dan Quayle during a visit to Hawaii in 1989)

"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
(J. Danforth Quayle)

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
(J. Danforth Quayle)

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/11/89)

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."
(Vice President Dan Quayle - this was part of his address to the United Negro College Fund, whose slogan is "a mind is a terrible thing to waste")

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/15/88)

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/22/89)

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 12/6/89)

"May our nation continue to be the "beakon" of hope to the world."
(The Quayles' 1989 Christmas card) [Not a beacon of literacy]

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I have made good judgements in the Past. I have made good judgements in the Future."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"The future will be better tomorrow."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/21/88)

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
(Vice President Dan Quayle to Sam Donaldson, 1/17/89)

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Public speaking is very easy."
(Vice President Dan Quayle to reporters in 10/88)

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/20/92, reported in Esquire, 8/92)

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/22/90)

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/5/90)

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/18/90)

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

 

[^SpiderMan^]

Quale was Bush Sr.'s VP. Quale was a pretty quiet VP, but he got his stupid rep because in front of the cameras, he tried to correct a grade school kid's spelling of potato by telling him it was missing an e. No one thought Bush Sr. was stupid; he was once the head of the CIA. As I said in another thread, W. came off as a little goofy at times, but he does have degrees from both Harvard and Yale, as well as being a former jet pilot.

I’m not saying either was dumb. I’m saying that they were the first that I saw repeatedly called dumb. Prior to them, the VP and President were too respected to publicly insult. Frequently it was claimed that George W got into Yale only because of his connections.

 

[doug777]

Frequently it was claimed that George W got into Yale only because of his connections.

Maybe, but the guy was fighter jet pilot, you do need above average intelligence to fly jets.

 

[doug777]

Agreed! The staggering amount of reading and recall required in order to graduate from ANY law school, and Indiana's School of Law in particular, negates any possibility of a graduate being "dumb". Quayle just suffered FAR more than his fair share of public misfirings. Maybe it was nerves, poor sleep, drugs (prescription and/or illicit), inadequate preparation ... I don't know, but he is certainly the poster child for intelligent men saying DUMB shit!

"Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here."
(Dan Quayle during a visit to Hawaii in 1989)

"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
(J. Danforth Quayle)

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
(J. Danforth Quayle)

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/11/89)

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."
(Vice President Dan Quayle - this was part of his address to the United Negro College Fund, whose slogan is "a mind is a terrible thing to waste")

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/15/88)

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/22/89)

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 12/6/89)

"May our nation continue to be the "beakon" of hope to the world."
(The Quayles' 1989 Christmas card) [Not a beacon of literacy]

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I have made good judgements in the Past. I have made good judgements in the Future."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"The future will be better tomorrow."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/21/88)

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
(Vice President Dan Quayle to Sam Donaldson, 1/17/89)

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Public speaking is very easy."
(Vice President Dan Quayle to reporters in 10/88)

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/20/92, reported in Esquire, 8/92)

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/22/90)

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/5/90)

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
(Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/18/90)

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)

Oh my God, I didn't realize he made so many gaffes.

 

[MisterT]

Maybe, but the guy was fighter jet pilot, you do need above average intelligence to fly jets.

Naaaa! A person of average intelligence can do almost ANYTHING if they are focused, dedicated and determined. There are doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and yes, ... jet pilots who are of average intelligence! Success is FAR more about achievement than aptitude. Exceptions probably include music, sports and art, where those who excel are likely born with some amount of innate aptitude. But pilots? Naw ... especially in modern times when highly computerized planes can virtually pilot themselves.

 

[doug777]

Naaaa! A person of average intelligence can do almost ANYTHING if they are focused, dedicated and determined. There are doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and yes, ... jet pilots who are of average intelligence! Success is FAR more about achievement than aptitude. Exceptions probably include music, sports and art, where those who excel are likely born with some amount of innate aptitude. But pilots? Naw ... especially in modern times when highly computerized planes can virtually pilot themselves.

We're not talking about modern times; we're talking about fifty years ago. You're right, people with limited intelligence can achieve great things, but it still takes unyielding drive, determination, and focus to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or pilot with average or below average intelligence. Those are admirable traits to have.

 

[MisterT]

We're not talking about modern times; we're talking about fifty years ago. You're right, people with limited intelligence can achieve great things, but it still takes unyielding drive, determination, and focus to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or pilot with average or below average intelligence. Those are admirable traits to have.

Agreed but that's exactly what I said. I worked a substantial part of my career as an educator. The last words we tend to tell students is anything supporting the notions of invisible limits or glass ceilings that will prevent them from reaching their goals. For 99 percent of the people who never climb to the level of their aspirations, it was solely due to their personal failures not their personal limitations. I'll never believe otherwise.

 

[^SpiderMan^]

Maybe, but the guy was fighter jet pilot, you do need above average intelligence to fly jets.

Yeah IMO you have to have above average intelligence to be President. It involves success in another area to get elected.

 

[BlackGoku]

Richard Nixon's tenure was likely the first to endure open and unbridled public mockery. Before Nixon, it was thought to be unameriKKKan to publicly mock the office of the POTUS. You could criticize, but not mock. Your place was to respect the office even if you didn't respect the officer himself. If you ever studied the aftermath of the assassination of Abe Lincoln, J. Wilkes Booth thought he'd be considered a hero and martyr for the Confederate cause by killing Lincoln, but it had the complete opposite effect. Even southerners despised the man as having committed a major treasonous offence due to, not the man Lincoln, but to the office of POTUS! This all in the wake of the Civil War too! That mindset has eroded to nothingness today, but it began with Nixon, IMO. And accelerated with GW Bush, ... and then reached a historical pinnacle with Obama.

They used to refer to John Adam's as "his Rotundness"..a play on how Washington was referred to as "His Excellency". Imagine how we think of Obama today compared to how we think about Trump and multiply that by 1000. I bet Adams' cabinet members dissed him to his face.

 

[MisterT]

They used to refer to John Adam's as "his Rotundness"..a play on how Washington was referred to as "His Excellency". Imagine how we think of Obama today compared to how we think about Trump and multiply that by 1000. I bet Adams' cabinet members dissed him to his face.

In private all politicians are called everything under the sun by voters as well as other politicians. Always have been, but the slurs and defamations said privately were not uttered publicly in the written or broadcast media in any capacity until Nixon is my claim.

 

[Goingmark40]

oh they were out there ...they just didn't have the reach that the internet boom has. rush limbaugh and newt gingrich come to mind. to me the architects of just mucking up the government .

 

[RoomService]

People have been making a career criticizing the president since there's been a platform to do so lol George W Bush was a gold nine just to name a Republican, hell there where cartoons made about GW

Rush Limbaugh made his career off criticizing Bill Clinton. I think the difference is, as someone mentioned earlier, that social media has an outreach that travels around the world and has given a platform to people who probably shouldn’t have one.

I was listening to an episode on Bloomberg TV about leadership and what defines a real leader. A simple answer was followers: no matter how charismatic the leader was, or how idiotic, if he had followers, that’s all that was needed.

 

[MisterT]

oh they were out there ...they just didn't have the reach that the internet boom has. rush limbaugh and newt gingrich come to mind. to me the architects of just mucking up the government .

Rush didn't hit the national airwaves till the early to mid-eighties. That was LONG after the Nixon tenure.

 

[RoomService]

Case in point ... tRump. How this motherfucker has the following that he does is surreal beyond measure! I guess average cacs would vote for Arnold the pig as long as he professes his hatred for minorities.

This isn’t the Bloomberg interview, but it’s a similar interview he did with CBS. Around the three-minute and forty-second mark, he discusses what defines a true leader.

The 1 quality that successful leaders share, according to a behavioral scientist​

A behavioral scientist reveals the 1 surprising trait all successful leaders share

Behavioral scientist Jon Levy has studied many high achievers and found that the most successful leaders make people believe in a better future.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[doug777]

Yeah IMO you have to have above average intelligence to be President. It involves success in another area to get elected.

I think the man in the White House now proves that, that isn't true., trump is definitely not above average in intelligence. His inherited wealth, and exaggerated self promotion has given the perception of great business success, when in fact he's had moderate success as a business man. What he is good at is grifting.

 

[^SpiderMan^]

I think the man in the White House now proves that, that isn't true., trump is definitely not above average in intelligence. His inherited wealth, and exaggerated self promotion has given the perception of great business success, when in fact he's had moderate success as a business man. What he is good at is grifting.

Trump inherited an estimated 413 million from his Father. Most of this happened in the 90’s. His net worth reached 4-5 Billion in the mid 2010s. Forbes estimates his current net worth to be 7.3 Billion.that is a 1667% increase. Trump ain’t a dummy.

 

[doug777]

Trump ain’t a dummy.

He believed something called the Declaration of Independence meant unity. It's in the title.

 

[D24OHA]

Trump inherited an estimated 413 million from his Father. Most of this happened in the 90’s. His net worth reached 4-5 Billion in the mid 2010s. Forbes estimates his current net worth to be 7.3 Billion.that is a 1667% increase. Trump ain’t a dummy.

So does that include his 6 bankruptcy filings (2 of which were casinos, which is absurd)?

 

[^SpiderMan^]

So does that include his 6 bankruptcy filings (2 of which were casinos, which is absurd)?

I get not agreeing with his politics or feeling that he is a poor communicator, but you gotta be honest and admit that increasing 413 million by 1667% takes some intelligence.

 

[MisterT]

I get not agreeing with his politics or feeling that he is a poor communicator, but you gotta be honest and admit that increasing 413 million by 1667% takes some intelligence.

WRONG, but don't shoot the messenger. Had Trump put his inheritance into a simple NASDAQ, DOW or S&P index fund, which any pablum puking retard could do, instead of trying to create and run businesses, it is reported that he would have amassed far more money. Most everything he touched, failed.

 

[doug777]

I get not agreeing with his politics or feeling that he is a poor communicator, but you gotta be honest and admit that increasing 413 million by 1667% takes some intelligence.

Why was this business genius having problems finding U.S. banks to loan him money?

 

[D24OHA]

I get not agreeing with his politics or feeling that he is a poor communicator, but you gotta be honest and admit that increasing 413 million by 1667% takes some intelligence.

Forbes estimates have been found to be grossly incorrect. Dude has refused to show his taxes since before his first term.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a "billionaire" (even on paper) until after his first term.

He made moves no billionaire would make,

(Steaks instead of a whole food line/brand, his "clothing line" was mostly shirts, ties, and accessories. but later he licensed his name to be featured on various other items made by numerous companies with no official "line." Mattresses. Trump University. Trump Vodka, but no variation of spirits) all of his marketed businesses failed, yet not before he undervalued them for taxes and over leveraged them for loans and then paid his creditors pennies on the dollar.

In 2020 his "supporters" thought they were donating to his 2024 campaign. He raised over $250 million and said he spent most of it on his defense for numerous trials.


That estimated $432 million was an estimate of actual gifts received and money saved through tax evasion. That's from records the NYT found up until Fred's death in 1999. Donnie filed bankruptcy 3 more times after that. (Not saying he was actually normal person "broke." But $$$ didn't equal business success for him.)

I think now today the Trump family net worth is probably closer to $2 to $3 billion. With a heavy emphasis on his years after his first election. And the corruption read as crypto memecoin he has going on.....

So no, I'm not impressed with his business savy. Ivanka's husband and a bevy of advisors / grifters helped him get to where he is.

 

[doug777]

Forbes estimates have been found to be grossly incorrect. Dude has refused to show his taxes since before his first term.

He's also notorious for exaggerating his wealth, even going so far as contacting Forbes as different people, bragging about and inflating trump's wealth.


It has been widely reported that Donald Trump, with the help of associates, repeatedly contacted Forbes to inflate his estimated net worth and secure a higher ranking on the magazine's annual list of the wealthiest individuals. This is a long-standing pattern of behavior that dates back to the 1980s.
Key details include:

• Impersonation: In the 1980s, a former Forbes reporter, Jonathan Greenberg, recorded conversations with a person who identified himself as "John Barron," a Trump Organization executive. It was later revealed and confirmed that Trump often used this alias to act as his own spokesperson and provide inflated information about his wealth.
• Exaggerated Valuations: Trump consistently provided vastly overstated figures for his assets to the magazine's reporters. For example, in 1982, Forbes estimated his worth at $100 million, while later documents suggested his actual value was closer to $5 million.
• Motivation: Former associates, including his ex-lawyer Michael Cohen, testified that Trump inflated his assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to improve his ranking on the Forbes list. Trump reportedly told Forbes in 2015 that his published net worth was important because it was "good for financing".
• Legal Scrutiny: This pattern of inflating asset values to obtain better financial terms has been a central point in legal cases against the Trump Organization, including a civil fraud case in New York where a judge found that Trump illegally inflated his asset values.

Forbes has noted that no other tycoon on their list has been more fixated with their net worth estimate on a year-in, year-out basis than Donald Trump. The magazine has since adjusted its reporting methods to be more rigorous in valuing his assets, sometimes leading to significant disagreements with Trump's claimed net worth.

 

[^SpiderMan^]

WRONG, but don't shoot the messenger. Had Trump put his inheritance into a simple NASDAQ, DOW or S&P index fund, which any pablum puking retard could do, instead of trying to create and run businesses, it is reported that he would have amassed far more money. Most everything he touched, failed.

What is your net worth?

 

[^SpiderMan^]

Forbes estimates have been found to be grossly incorrect. Dude has refused to show his taxes since before his first term.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a "billionaire" (even on paper) until after his first term.

He made moves no billionaire would make,

(Steaks instead of a whole food line/brand, his "clothing line" was mostly shirts, ties, and assecories. but later he licensed his name to be featured on various other items made by numerous companies with no official "line." Mattresses. Trump University. Trump Vodka, but no variation of spirits) all of his marketed businesses failed, yet not before he undervalued them for taxes and over leveraged them for loans and then paid his creditors pennies on the dollar.

In 2020 his "supporters" thought they were donating to his 2024 campaign. He raised over $250 million and said he spent most of it on his defense for numerous trials.


That estimated $432 million was an estimate of actual gifts received and money saved through tax evasion. That's from records the NYT found up until Fred's death in 1999. Donnie filed bankruptcy 3 more times after that. (Not saying he was actually normal person "broke." But $$$ didn't equal business success for him.)

I think now today the Trump family net worth is probably closer to $2 to $3 billion. With a heavy emphasis on his years after his first election. And the corruption read as crypto memecoin he has going on.....

So no, I'm not impressed with his business savy. Ivanka's husband and a bevy of advisors / grifters helped him get to where he is.

He's also notorious for exaggerating his wealth, even going so far as contacting Forbes as different people, bragging about and inflating trump's wealth.


It has been widely reported that Donald Trump, with the help of associates, repeatedly contacted Forbes to inflate his estimated net worth and secure a higher ranking on the magazine's annual list of the wealthiest individuals. This is a long-standing pattern of behavior that dates back to the 1980s.
Key details include:

• Impersonation: In the 1980s, a former Forbes reporter, Jonathan Greenberg, recorded conversations with a person who identified himself as "John Barron," a Trump Organization executive. It was later revealed and confirmed that Trump often used this alias to act as his own spokesperson and provide inflated information about his wealth.
• Exaggerated Valuations: Trump consistently provided vastly overstated figures for his assets to the magazine's reporters. For example, in 1982, Forbes estimated his worth at $100 million, while later documents suggested his actual value was closer to $5 million.
• Motivation: Former associates, including his ex-lawyer Michael Cohen, testified that Trump inflated his assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to improve his ranking on the Forbes list. Trump reportedly told Forbes in 2015 that his published net worth was important because it was "good for financing".
• Legal Scrutiny: This pattern of inflating asset values to obtain better financial terms has been a central point in legal cases against the Trump Organization, including a civil fraud case in New York where a judge found that Trump illegally inflated his asset values.

Forbes has noted that no other tycoon on their list has been more fixated with their net worth estimate on a year-in, year-out basis than Donald Trump. The magazine has since adjusted its reporting methods to be more rigorous in valuing his assets, sometimes leading to significant disagreements with Trump's claimed net worth.

I can admit that thus far, I have not proven to been smart or savvy enough to increase my wealth by 1667%. I'm seeing that your arguments are that Forbes is lyin and Trump is "only" worth 3 Billion. I'll admit that I have not proven to been smart or savvy enough to amass 3 Billion. I'm not going to argue with some BGOLers over a Billionaire being smarter than the average person. Yall might be millionaires or might live with ya mamas. I've been on BGOL and seen enough ocks to just agree to disagree with yall.