I believe him 100%
Writers Circle Debate: Tyler Perry says HE writes all of his shows "I have NO WRITERS ROOM"
- Thread starter playahaitian
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There is an audience for everything in the social media era
Andy Warhol will never know how right he was ..
In the case of the video, she was addressing his post showing the scripts he wrote for all these shows in 2019 and the accompanying #workethic.
She spoke to a number of issues she found problematic in his presentation. One, we've spoken about. Yes, those are a lot of scripts he wrote himself, but they're crappy scripts. What she addressed that I agree with is, work ethic means more than quantity. If you are producing a lot of things but it is at the expense of artistic growth, which could result in quality , then is it really impressive? Something that should be emulated? Tyler's work tends to be as subpar film and tv writing goes. I would argue that he could be better at it if he did two things: Take time out to formally study the craft and be open to collaboration.
That's the second point she addressed in her critique. Just because you can do everything by yourself doesn't mean that you should. She pointed out Quincy Jones, one of the most famous collaborators of all time- a man responsible for some of the greatest songs and albums in the history of American pop culture. Collaboration with other individuals gifted in their craft is an excellent opportunity to grow. It's from where most of the great tv shows have emerged. For one thing, it gives you other sets of eyes to point out where and how something that you created can be made better. As well, it allows good creative input from others. As the saying goes, "two heads are better than one". Therein lies opportunities for growth and learning that cannot be gained by insisting on being an island all the time.
I didn't find what she said to be insulting. It wasn't just blows thrown to be nasty. Her critique was constructive in that she acknowledged the good he's done and his positive attributes. She also offered viable solutions. Negative critique and "hating" is when it's nothing but ad hominem attacks, no solution oriented content and where there isn't some form of redemption. I took it as she recognized Tyler's influence and while on the surface it is good to work hard, she saw it as more valuable to work well.
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I won't front. I did watch "Plug Love".
* Goes to TUBI to add "First Lady" to the queue. *
I was answering quickly (multitasking) and didn't get to address a few of your points regarding his fans.
I'm not crazy about Madea, but I likehave enjoyed some of Tyler Perry's films. I don't go in with high expectations. As a Christian, I like the times when the underlying message is to seek God. Too often these days, in movies and on tv believers are portrayed in a negative light. T.P.'s films not of the highest quality but they tend to be entertaining. I don't care for his tv shows.
But I would never insult his fan base nor their motives. On the other hand, I find it of value to encourage him to grow artistically in order to provide his fan base with better quality material that still entertains.
she and we are talking about 2 separate issues here tho...
The quality of Tyler Perry's tv shows and movies...
Other non-TP projects coming from TPS...
The non-TP projects under TPS remains to be seen since he just opened his studios BUT the quality of his shows and movie IS WHAT IT IS....it works like a motherfucker and quite frankly there is NO REASON for him to change his personal project formula just because some people don't like it. The people that DO like it paid for his lear jet, mansion and sprawling studio complex and he'd be crazy and stupid to change that up just to please his detractors who aren't buying into his shit anyway. As Nino Brown said..money talks bullshit runs a marathon.
and if I'm producing some rinky-dink shit that people are paying me hand over fist for...and you tell me I need to stop doing my rinky-dink shit....my response to that is you need to shut the fuck up...
Ulitimately what she and you are proposing is Coke 2...lets IMPROVE something thats already selling good....because thats what fans are asking for?? no...for people who probably don't even drink coke like that...how well did that work out for them?
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Also on another note I dont want to side track the issue of quality and creativity but for that chick to say use pheobe waller bridges as an example excellent writing when shonda rhimes has highly popular, long running and critically acclaimed shows on the air presently AND what Shonda does is more in the realm of what Perry does in that melodrama genre is a better comparison that some english white chick who doesn't employ or collab with blacks at all.
Now we COULD get into why she pulled a couple cacs out as an example of excellence when there are black producers (cough Oprah cough) who have produced oscar nommed projects..and how that says something in itself but lets not go there...
Now we COULD get into why she pulled a couple cacs out as an example of excellence when there are black producers (cough Oprah cough) who have produced oscar nommed projects..and how that says something in itself but lets not go there...
She didn't tell him to change anything. She said that "work ethic" thing he was trying to sell is flawed in terms of the messaging he's sending out to regular people. I think that's a fair viewpoint.she and we are talking about 2 separate issues here tho...
The quality of Tyler Perry's tv shows and movies...
Other non-TP projects coming from TPS...
The non-TP projects under TPS remains to be seen since he just opened his studios BUT the quality of his shows and movie IS WHAT IT IS....it works like a motherfucker and quite frankly there is NO REASON for him to change his personal project formula just because some people don't like it. The people that DO like it paid for his lear jet, mansion and sprawling studio complex and he'd be crazy and stupid to change that up just to please his detractors who aren't buying into his shit anyway. As Nino Brown said..money talks bullshit runs a marathon.
Ulitimately what she and you are proposing is Coke 2...lets IMPROVE something thats already selling good....because thats what fans are asking for?? no...for people who probably don't even drink coke like that...how well did that work out for them?
No one said he had to change anything or go out of his way to please anyone, brother geechiedan.
The selfishness/greed that MIGHT be underpinning that tweet could be very telling in terms of how he was treating writers who did work with him. Apparently, they were let go because they were part of a union. So then he doesn't want those under his employ to be part of something that is standard practice that helps ensure that they are fairly compensated and protected? Hmm.
That's tangential, my brother. Whichever example she used, her point was made.Also on another note I dont want to side track the issue of quality and creativity but for that chick to say use pheobe waller bridges as an example excellent writing when shonda rhimes has highly popular, long running and critically acclaimed shows on the air presently AND what Shonda does is more in the realm of what Perry does in that melodrama genre is a better comparison that some english white chick who doesn't employ or collab with blacks at all.
Now we COULD get into why she pulled a couple cacs out as an example of excellence when there are black producers (cough Oprah cough) who have produced oscar nommed projects..and how that says something in itself but lets not go there...
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uh uh uh homie...as far as work ethic is concerned the argument of quality vs quantity is flawed mainly because we live in a capitalist society which means the market chooses what works and what doesn't. Again no one is forced to buy his shit...if it didn't work it wouldn't work at all. And perry would just be some dude living in his car writing dozens of scripts no one wants to see. Heck, even she and YOU say there are aspects of his shows and such that you like.
THAT'S IT. that's all he needs... that's enough.
her criticisms are his talent for writing is poor, he ( in her opinion) has chosen quantity over quality and he should hire better writers. She also assumes that if one isn't innovating and getting better at one's endeavor then it's inherently not fun and some kind of grind.
If there is one thing that's definite among all creatives is the joy of thinking something up, then executing it and it comes out just the way you saw it. Just that part of the deal isn't easy in and of itself. That's it's not Shakespeare or some critically acclaimed work by the snob class is irrelevant. It's his vision and he executed it and it WORKED. It didn't have to but it did. I'm sure that perry knows at his skill level he's never going win an oscar or emmy for best-written anything and I'm also sure it's not keeping him up at night. And according to her, it should because one should strive to improve and progress in their work but therein lies the problem...HOW DO YOU IMPROVE ON SOMETHING THAT'S "SHITTY" WHEN IT BOUGHT YOU A MANSION, LEARJET AND MULTIMILLION DOLLAR STUDIO COMPLEX??
The shitty work that's taken him around the world and made him a player in high circles....what's the gauge for seeing improvement on that???
Normally for a person to see that kind of accomplishment in his field he SHOULD be producing work that would make spielberg, scorsese and spike shutter but he's not so where's the motivation for him to improve his skills to do stuff on their level??
She denigrates this "hustler culture" but quite frankly hustlers get shit done...LITERALLY. And that's 95% of the process of ANYTHING successful. Just completing it and putting it out.
According to him, he did hire them but the work they did didn't comply with his voice or vision requiring rewrites which he had to pay for and according to him at some point, he suspected they were submitting work they knew would be rejected just for the extra check of the rewrite. If he's hiring writers who are better skilled than he is and they're supposed to write a story in his voice then it's destined to NEVER work out.
Money's not everything.
no but its a large part of it. otherwise, she wouldn't have a patreon page and ask people to donate to help her make videos. She's as much a part of the hustle culture shes denigrating.
I'm talking about what you offered as your defense of Tyler Perry. Money is not everything. Material enrichment does not necessitate quality of product, socially redeeming value nor excellence. Yes, at present Tyler Perry's fan base loves what he puts out and pays for and supports it.
This doesn't mean that he and his words and product or anyone else's cannot be critiqued. The same goes for any public figure and their words and creations.
That's what makes BGOL's main board what it is. We are able to compare and contrast various viewpoints and therefore contribute to the greater intellectual discourse. It's vital to exercise our minds. Whether we are willing to admit it or not we all learn from each other.
Now you may not agree with Kim's assessment but her saying something YOU disagree with doesn't mean that she is some sort of hypocrite for her accepting patreon donations. Her Patreon donations and Tyler Perry's making millions writing and directing tv shows and movies are on totally different spheres from each other. Her YouTube channel and Patreon page are only a small portion of what that young sista is about.
Personally, I love very intelligent Black women. The smarter the better. I've followed her vlogs for almost a year. I watch the ones that are on subjects that interest me. Some things she says I agree with. Others, I disagree with. However, I appreciate the detailed, well informed, well thought out sentiments she offers. I particularly respect that as well read, analytical and nuanced she is, she's not even yet 30.
Kimberly Nicole Foster
www.kimberlynfoster.com
It's been good dialoguing with you. I could keep going and going good brother, but unfortunately my time is short. Thanks for the exchange and for sharing your thoughts. I'm not trying to convert you to mine. We both said what we said and I respect your point of view. Enjoy your Sunday.
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Tyler Perry is a great writer, but he could benefit from a writer's room. His tropes are overused, and stale. At this point, we've seen everything that Tyler Perry has written, because all he does is add a couple of new ingredients wash and repeat
I support him as a black man who started from nothing and build himself an empire, but some of his stuff is really tired, because it always feels like more of the same
And again I would say you have to readjust your criticism once you factor in his core audience and what they like. Is perry above citicism? no, but if you're going to critique his work then the criteria should factor in his genre and core audience.
Perry favors melodrama and lighthearted sitcoms. His drama stories tend to have a religious bend, and have conservative/traditional gender roles views...these things are important to him and his core audience. This is probably why he's had so much difficulty maintaining a writers room. Where are you going to find people who share those values plus are better writers at it than he is?
The Robert Downey Jr movie Doolittle just premiered and critics killed it. They said it was bad and trite and a bunch of other negative adjectives but the movie is meant for children... so you have a person whose 48 critiquing a movie meant for 8 years olds. And one of the criticisms I read said the movie relied too heavily on fart jokes... well for an adult 3 fart jokes in a row is boring...for a kid that shit is fucking hilarious. Target hit. Now you ask a bunch of kids and they say Doolittle sucked then it TRULY sucked. Asking a bunch of adults is beside the point.
Same thing for Perry. What's his target audience...did he hit the target in doing the things that that audience likes? if the answer is yes then he's successful. Criticisms from people who aren't his audience are as irrelevant as the jaded adults who bombed on that kid's movie.
Until fans of perry work start to complain then what he does and how he does it is fine. And NOT wrong since its doing exactly what its designed to do..ENTERTAIN HIS FANS.
I feel like Red in Shawshank, "Did I say you were good? Shit, you're a Rembrandt."
damn
That would make TP the GOAT of tv writers
I think she means write coherent every day.
His fans love his work.
It would be pitiful if it was a “room of writers” writing that shit.
It’s obvious he writes his own stuff
It’s obvious he writes his own stuff
this...
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