BREAKING: INVASION HAS BEGUN..... Putin's "3-day war"... NOW... 1 YEAR 338 DAYS ...WAGNER HEAD SAYS GROUP STANDING DOWN AFTER CLAIMS OF DEAL
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- Start date
They track the equipment and personnel loses here as % of the forces allocated to the war.
And there is a running tally of visually confirmed loses here. Claims of 1200 tanks lost by russia so far. Visual confirmation of 670+ loses so far.
Russia
Ukraine
They moved on to other shit. They pretending like this thread don't exist anymore. I want to tag each and everyone of them so bad lol
But trust me, if something happens to turn, they'll be back in this bitch front running their Putin nutsucking lips. No doubt about it
Nobody is paying in Rubles so they cut the supply to Finland. Completely unrelated to their bid to join NATO. 
This is where the bullshit starts though. This is not going to impact Finland and will be seen as another humiliation for russia as it highlights again that nobody is going to pay for shit in rubles.However, look at how different sources reported on the "news":
Russia's Inter RAO to halt power exports to Finland due lack of payment
www.reuters.com
Fingrid added there was no threat to Finnish supplies and that power from Russia accounted for some 10% of Finland's total consumption.
Russia to cut electricity to Finland from Saturday: Supplier
“We are forced to suspend the electricity import starting from May 14,” RAO Nordic, a subsidiary of Russian state energy holding Inter RAO said in a statement, adding that it had not received payment for volumes sold in May.
This is where the bullshit starts though. This is not going to impact Finland and will be seen as another humiliation for russia as it highlights again that nobody is going to pay for shit in rubles.
However, look at how different sources reported on the "news":Russia's Inter RAO to halt power exports to Finland due lack of payment
Russia's Inter RAO to halt power exports to Finland due lack of payment
Russian state-owned utility Inter RAO will stop exporting electricity to Finland from Saturday because it has not been paid, the company's Finnish subsidiary said on Friday.
Fingrid added there was no threat to Finnish supplies and that power from Russia accounted for some 10% of Finland's total consumption.
Russia to cut electricity to Finland from Saturday: Supplier
Russia to cut electricity to Finland from Saturday: Supplier
Russia will suspend electricity supplies to Finland this weekend, a supplier said on Friday as tensions rise over Helsinki’s NATO bid following the war in
english.alarabiya.net
“We are forced to suspend the electricity import starting from May 14,” RAO Nordic, a subsidiary of Russian state energy holding Inter RAO said in a statement, adding that it had not received payment for volumes sold in May.
See How Gamers Are Outwitting And Helping To Kill Russian Soldiers
Ayoooo.... haven't seen you around much in these parts, this thread, after this reply..... you working on some stock tips for the fam? Some crypto picks? Investment portfolios?OP is spreading more gossip than TMZ.
USA, Inc. NEEDS a war because it is destitute and has to find someone to pillage but there are only a few places left, none of which are viable options so this BS is tossed out.
.
They let Pelosi go first to see if it was safe.... that old farting dinosaur was walking like a fucking penguin with hemorrhoids
Zelenskiy welcomes Mitch McConnell and US delegation to Kyiv
McConnell leads delegation of Republican senators to Kyiv
In this photo provided by the Office of the President of Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy poses for a picture with a delegation of Republican senators from the U.S. Congress, headed by Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Saturday led a delegation of Republican senators to war-ravaged Ukraine.
Video showed Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) walking with McConnell in the Ukrainian capital alongside President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Zelenskyy called the visit a powerful signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine from Congress and the American people, according to a readout published by the Ukrainian Presidential Administration.
The president said Ukraine is defending not only its own state but all democratic values and freedoms and the right of people to freely choose their own future.
“Russia is committing genocide against the Ukrainian people,” Zelenskyy told the delegation. "[Russian President Vladimir Putin] commits war crimes that horrify the whole world — torture, mass executions, rape. Europe has not seen such crimes since World War II,” he said.
Zelenskyy hosted the delegation inside the House of Chimaeras, which is on the premises of the presidential administration.
The visit comes as a $40 billion aid package to fortify Ukraine’s defenses against the Russian invasion stalled in the Senate following Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-Ky.) demands for a watchdog to track the money.
Before the Senate left Thursday, McConnell and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer made a rare bipartisan request on the floor, offering Paul a vote on his amendment to the package in exchange for moving more swiftly on the aid. But Paul rejected their request and instead wanted to change the underlying bill.
Passage of the aid package is now expected next week.
Two weeks ago House Speaker Nancy Pelosi became the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit Ukraine since Russia’s invasion began.
Pelosi led the previously unannounced trip with a group of senior House Democrats, including Foreign Affairs Chair Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.), Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and Rules Chair Jim McGovern (D-Mass.).
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the visit a powerful signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine, as well as the American people.
Zelenskiy welcomes Mitch McConnell and US delegation to Kyiv
McConnell leads delegation of Republican senators to Kyiv
In this photo provided by the Office of the President of Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy poses for a picture with a delegation of Republican senators from the U.S. Congress, headed by Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Saturday led a delegation of Republican senators to war-ravaged Ukraine.
Video showed Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) walking with McConnell in the Ukrainian capital alongside President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Zelenskyy called the visit a powerful signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine from Congress and the American people, according to a readout published by the Ukrainian Presidential Administration.
The president said Ukraine is defending not only its own state but all democratic values and freedoms and the right of people to freely choose their own future.
“Russia is committing genocide against the Ukrainian people,” Zelenskyy told the delegation. "[Russian President Vladimir Putin] commits war crimes that horrify the whole world — torture, mass executions, rape. Europe has not seen such crimes since World War II,” he said.
Zelenskyy hosted the delegation inside the House of Chimaeras, which is on the premises of the presidential administration.
The visit comes as a $40 billion aid package to fortify Ukraine’s defenses against the Russian invasion stalled in the Senate following Sen. Rand Paul’s (R-Ky.) demands for a watchdog to track the money.
Before the Senate left Thursday, McConnell and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer made a rare bipartisan request on the floor, offering Paul a vote on his amendment to the package in exchange for moving more swiftly on the aid. But Paul rejected their request and instead wanted to change the underlying bill.
Passage of the aid package is now expected next week.
Two weeks ago House Speaker Nancy Pelosi became the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit Ukraine since Russia’s invasion began.
Pelosi led the previously unannounced trip with a group of senior House Democrats, including Foreign Affairs Chair Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.), Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and Rules Chair Jim McGovern (D-Mass.).
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the visit a powerful signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine, as well as the American people.
I’ve already called out the thread as a sham like the so-called war you are so invested in. The validation you need from the so-called white is going to cause you to self-destructAyoooo.... haven't seen you around much in these parts, this thread, after this reply..... you working on some stock tips for the fam? Some crypto picks? Investment portfolios?
.
If you put that time and energy into yourself, you might be able to shed that kangaroo pouch you are carrying around and detox the bacon grease pumping through your veins.
Bitch ass coon.... you fell on your face.... everyone here knows it.. .. calling something out has never.... ended your appearances in a thread.... it only makes you bolder.... coonier..... cause you're....I’ve already called out the thread as a sham like the so-called war you are so invested in. The validation you need from the so-called white is going to cause you to self-destruct
If you put that time and energy into yourself, you might be able to shed that kangaroo pouch you are carrying around and detox the bacon grease pumping through your veins.
Some interesting stuff happening…
1.Ukrainians death total is
(Unofficial but likely official)
2.Russia troops need to stay away from water if they want to live
Between Snake Island & Siverskyi Donets River they having trouble with those areas.
(Which is key areas)
3. our Sectary of defence calling for a ceasefire
(I wonder if they trying to get more equipment to the front lines(I would) or trying to get wounded soldiers evacuated)
4. more and more azov civilians saying they was kept against their will or was told the Russians would kill them
5. Former Turkish top brass blaming Nato and the US for the Ukraine situation rather than Russia
6. turkey president ain’t feeling Sweden and Finland joining NATO(say those two harvest terrorist Groups)
Said NATO made a mistake but letting Greece in.
7. not all Wagner Group supported Russia’s operations in Ukraine. They felt the soldiers wasn’t trained properly so they didn’t go(a small number but still pretty interesting)
8. More stories from foreign fighters that went to Ukraine to help. That shit wasn’t as sweet as they thought..
1.Ukrainians death total is
(Unofficial but likely official)
2.Russia troops need to stay away from water if they want to live
Between Snake Island & Siverskyi Donets River they having trouble with those areas.
(Which is key areas)
3. our Sectary of defence calling for a ceasefire
(I wonder if they trying to get more equipment to the front lines(I would) or trying to get wounded soldiers evacuated)
4. more and more azov civilians saying they was kept against their will or was told the Russians would kill them
5. Former Turkish top brass blaming Nato and the US for the Ukraine situation rather than Russia
6. turkey president ain’t feeling Sweden and Finland joining NATO(say those two harvest terrorist Groups)
Said NATO made a mistake but letting Greece in.
7. not all Wagner Group supported Russia’s operations in Ukraine. They felt the soldiers wasn’t trained properly so they didn’t go(a small number but still pretty interesting)
8. More stories from foreign fighters that went to Ukraine to help. That shit wasn’t as sweet as they thought..
Last edited:
7. Wagner group didn’t go fight because Russian troops was ready and Ukraine is family to him.
Russian troops ill-prepared for Ukraine war, says ex-Kremlin mercenary
Reuters
May 12, 20223:58 AM CDTLast Updated 3 days ago
NEUILLY-SUR-SEINE, France, May 12 (Reuters) - The Russian military's failure to seize the Ukrainian capital was inevitable because in the preceding years they had never directly faced a powerful enemy, according to a former mercenary with the Kremlin-linked Wagner Group who fought alongside the Russian army.
Marat Gabidullin took part in Wagner Group missions on the Kremlin's behalf in Syria and in a previous conflict in Ukraine, before deciding to go public about his experience inside the secretive private military company.
He quit the Wagner group in 2019, but several months before Russia launched the invasion on Feb. 24 Gabidullin, 55, said he received a call from a recruiter who invited him to go back to fighting as a mercenary in Ukraine.
He rejected the offer, because, he said, he did not agree on principle with the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine.
He also said Russian forces were not up to the job, even though they trumpeted their arsenal of new weapons and their successes in Syria where they helped President Bashar al-Assad defeat an armed rebellion.
"They were caught completely by surprise that the Ukrainian army resisted so fiercely and that they faced an actual army," Gabidullin said about Russia's setbacks in Ukraine.
He said people on the Russian side expected to face rag-tag militias when they invaded Ukraine, not well-drilled regular troops.
"I told them: 'Guys, that's a mistake'," said Gabidullin, who is now in France where he is publishing a book about his experiences fighting with the Wagner Group.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said he did not know who Gabidullin was and whether he has ever been a member of private military companies.
"We, the state, the government, the Kremlin can not have anything to do with it," he said.
The Russian defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment.
Russia calls its actions in Ukraine a “special operation” that it says is not designed to occupy territory but to destroy its southern neighbour's military capabilities and capture what it regards as dangerous nationalists.
Gabidullin is part of a small but growing cohort of people in Russia with security backgrounds who have supported President Vladimir Putin's foreign incursions but now say the way the war is being conducted is incompetent.
Igor Girkin, who helped lead a pro-Kremlin armed revolt in eastern Ukraine in 2014, has been critical of the way this campaign is being conducted. Alexei Alexandrov, an architect of the 2014 rebellion, told Reuters in March the invasion was a mistake. read more
Gabidullin took part in some of the bloodiest Syrian clashes in Deir al-Zor province, in Ghouta and near the ancient city of Palmyra. He was seriously injured in 2016 when a grenade exploded behind his back during a battle in the mountains near Latakia.
Gabidullin spent a week in a coma and three months in a hospital where he had surgeries to remove one of his kidneys and some intestines. Reuters has independently verified he was in the Wagner Group and was in combat in Syria.
Wagner Group fighters have been accused by rights groups and the Ukrainian government of committing war crimes in Syria and eastern Ukraine from 2014 onwards. Gabidullin said he had never been involved in such abuses.
DIFFERENT PROPOSITION
Moscow's involvement helped turn the tide of the Syrian war in favour of Assad, but Gabidullin said Russia's military restricted itself mainly to attacks from the air, while relying on Wagner mercenaries and other proxies to do the lion's share of the fighting on the ground.
The Russian military's task was easier too. Its opponents -- Islamic State and other militias -- had no anti-aircraft systems or artillery.
Fighting Ukraine, he said, was a different proposition.
"I've seen enough of them in Syria... (The Russian military) didn't take part in combat directly," he said in an interview in Paris to promote his book, which will be published by French publishing house Michel Lafon this month.
"The military forces .... when it was needed to learn how to fight, did not learn how to fight for real," he said.
Wagner Group is an informal entity, with -- on paper at least -- no offices or staff. The U.S. Treasury Department and the European Union have said the Wagner Group is linked to Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin. Prigozhin has denied any such links.
Concord Management and Consulting, Prigozhin’s main business, did not respond to a request for comment.
President Vladimir Putin has said private military contractors have the right to work and pursue their interests anywhere in the world as long as they do not break Russian law. Putin has said the Wagner Group neither represented the Russian state nor was paid by it.
Gabidullin said although he had known the Russian invasion of Ukraine was coming, he did not expect it to be on such a scale.
"I could not even think that Russia will wage a war on Ukraine. How could that be? It's impossible," he said.
He said he also did not believe attacking Ukraine, a sovereign state, was justified.
"Its right to be independent has to be respected. I don’t see in the actions of this state any aggression towards Russia."
"I said: no guys, that’s without me please, you go yourselves. Ukraine for me is a part of the country where I was born and grew up, they are my compatriots," he said.
Russian troops ill-prepared for Ukraine war, says ex-Kremlin mercenary
Reuters
May 12, 20223:58 AM CDTLast Updated 3 days ago
NEUILLY-SUR-SEINE, France, May 12 (Reuters) - The Russian military's failure to seize the Ukrainian capital was inevitable because in the preceding years they had never directly faced a powerful enemy, according to a former mercenary with the Kremlin-linked Wagner Group who fought alongside the Russian army.
Marat Gabidullin took part in Wagner Group missions on the Kremlin's behalf in Syria and in a previous conflict in Ukraine, before deciding to go public about his experience inside the secretive private military company.
He quit the Wagner group in 2019, but several months before Russia launched the invasion on Feb. 24 Gabidullin, 55, said he received a call from a recruiter who invited him to go back to fighting as a mercenary in Ukraine.
He rejected the offer, because, he said, he did not agree on principle with the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine.
He also said Russian forces were not up to the job, even though they trumpeted their arsenal of new weapons and their successes in Syria where they helped President Bashar al-Assad defeat an armed rebellion.
"They were caught completely by surprise that the Ukrainian army resisted so fiercely and that they faced an actual army," Gabidullin said about Russia's setbacks in Ukraine.
He said people on the Russian side expected to face rag-tag militias when they invaded Ukraine, not well-drilled regular troops.
"I told them: 'Guys, that's a mistake'," said Gabidullin, who is now in France where he is publishing a book about his experiences fighting with the Wagner Group.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said he did not know who Gabidullin was and whether he has ever been a member of private military companies.
"We, the state, the government, the Kremlin can not have anything to do with it," he said.
The Russian defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment.
Russia calls its actions in Ukraine a “special operation” that it says is not designed to occupy territory but to destroy its southern neighbour's military capabilities and capture what it regards as dangerous nationalists.
Gabidullin is part of a small but growing cohort of people in Russia with security backgrounds who have supported President Vladimir Putin's foreign incursions but now say the way the war is being conducted is incompetent.
Igor Girkin, who helped lead a pro-Kremlin armed revolt in eastern Ukraine in 2014, has been critical of the way this campaign is being conducted. Alexei Alexandrov, an architect of the 2014 rebellion, told Reuters in March the invasion was a mistake. read more
Gabidullin took part in some of the bloodiest Syrian clashes in Deir al-Zor province, in Ghouta and near the ancient city of Palmyra. He was seriously injured in 2016 when a grenade exploded behind his back during a battle in the mountains near Latakia.
Gabidullin spent a week in a coma and three months in a hospital where he had surgeries to remove one of his kidneys and some intestines. Reuters has independently verified he was in the Wagner Group and was in combat in Syria.
Wagner Group fighters have been accused by rights groups and the Ukrainian government of committing war crimes in Syria and eastern Ukraine from 2014 onwards. Gabidullin said he had never been involved in such abuses.
DIFFERENT PROPOSITION
Moscow's involvement helped turn the tide of the Syrian war in favour of Assad, but Gabidullin said Russia's military restricted itself mainly to attacks from the air, while relying on Wagner mercenaries and other proxies to do the lion's share of the fighting on the ground.
The Russian military's task was easier too. Its opponents -- Islamic State and other militias -- had no anti-aircraft systems or artillery.
Fighting Ukraine, he said, was a different proposition.
"I've seen enough of them in Syria... (The Russian military) didn't take part in combat directly," he said in an interview in Paris to promote his book, which will be published by French publishing house Michel Lafon this month.
"The military forces .... when it was needed to learn how to fight, did not learn how to fight for real," he said.
Wagner Group is an informal entity, with -- on paper at least -- no offices or staff. The U.S. Treasury Department and the European Union have said the Wagner Group is linked to Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin. Prigozhin has denied any such links.
Concord Management and Consulting, Prigozhin’s main business, did not respond to a request for comment.
President Vladimir Putin has said private military contractors have the right to work and pursue their interests anywhere in the world as long as they do not break Russian law. Putin has said the Wagner Group neither represented the Russian state nor was paid by it.
Gabidullin said although he had known the Russian invasion of Ukraine was coming, he did not expect it to be on such a scale.
"I could not even think that Russia will wage a war on Ukraine. How could that be? It's impossible," he said.
He said he also did not believe attacking Ukraine, a sovereign state, was justified.
"Its right to be independent has to be respected. I don’t see in the actions of this state any aggression towards Russia."
"I said: no guys, that’s without me please, you go yourselves. Ukraine for me is a part of the country where I was born and grew up, they are my compatriots," he said.
8. Foreign fighters talk about Ukraine
I Don’t Want to Be Cannon Fodder’: Foreign Fighters Are Leaving Ukraine
A would-be fighter tells VICE World News that concerns over a lack of firepower, war tourists, and potentially being executed by the Russians have put him off joining Ukraine's foreign legion.
Tim Hume
30 March 2022, 11:01am
When Phil, a 35-year-old former officer in the British Army, heard Ukraine’s call for foreign fighters to help defend the country from the Russian invasion, he felt he had to join the fight.
But after a fact-finding trip into Ukraine to get a better handle on the situation, he’s had second thoughts.
“There’s no point wasting my life for nothing,” he told VICE World News. “If I think I can go and support in a way that’s going to contribute to the security of Ukraine and the safety of Europe, then I will. But I don’t want to go on a suicide mission.”
Phil, left, outside Lviv train station
For a certain type of thrill-seeking idealist, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s appeal last month for foreign volunteers to join a newly formed international legion to fight the Russian invasion was an irresistible proposition.
To those appalled by the footage of the Russian assault, Zelenskyy’s call resonated as an opportunity to play a heroic role on the right side of history. Within 10 days, about 20,000 people from more than 50 countries –ranging from hardened veterans to people with no military training – had asked to join.
But a month on, there’s growing evidence that the reality of life as a foreign volunteer in Ukraine isn’t squaring with the romantic fantasy. Many foreign fighters, disenchanted with what they encountered, have already gone homeearly, with gripes ranging from a lack of adequate equipment and poor organisation, to the calibre of fellow foreign recruits.
One group of volunteers fled across the Polish border after a Russian missile attack on Yavoriv military base, where international recruits were receiving training, last month.
Canada’s Globe and Mail recently spoke to fighters who had abandoned the battle amid concerns over the lack of equipment, and being required to sign indefinite contracts, and were now doing humanitarian relief work in the country instead. A recent report in Belgium’s Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper claimed that more than half of the country’s foreign fighters in Ukraine had already returned home. “I didn't feel like serving as foreign cannon fodder,” one returnee told the outlet.
Meanwhile, some prospective volunteers, like Phil, are also cooling on the idea. After his recent trip with two fellow British veterans to Lviv and nearby Yavoriv, where they met with Ukrainian military officers to discuss potentially enlisting in the international legion, Phil and his associates decided not to enlist, at least for now.
“My kneejerk reaction was, ‘I have to do this, I have to go and fight.’ I couldn’t sit by and watch someone else do something I think is the right thing to do,” he said.
“But having been out there to see what the situation is, my views have been tempered to, ‘I need to help.’”
Phil, who did not want his last name used, said he believed his skills, as a former army captain with extensive frontline combat experience, meant he would add more value training international volunteers in Ukraine, “rather than being another grunt with a gun.”
But he had been told by Ukrainian officers during his visit that they currently had enough people filling training roles. And, as the Russian offensive had made much slower progress than was feared in the early days of the invasion, Ukraine did not yet seem to have an acute need for foreign manpower, he said.
“I am still prepared to go and do what needs to be done,” he said, adding that he intended to focus on coordinating donations of supplies to help Ukrainians. “But I don’t want to get in the way, I don't want to be cannon fodder, or even worse, sarin gas fodder.”
Phil’s comments come as a string of foreign volunteers back away from the fighting in Ukraine. VICE World News recently spoke to two foreign volunteers – one American and one Polish, both veterans of tours in Afghanistan – who had left Ukraine after enduring harrowing experiences on the battlefield, and surviving the devastating Russian missile attack on the Yavoriv base.
The soldiers said they were under-equipped and outmatched by the superior Russian firepower, and complained about the calibre of some of their fellow foreign recruits, suspecting that they were abusing drugs.
“You’ve got to realise that there isn't a war that has been fought like this in a long time,” Hieu Le, a 30-year-old American legionnaire, told VICE World News. “What's different with the US military and all the other NATO militaries—they're spoiled. When it comes to fighting a war, they have air support, medivac, logistics, all kinds of different levels of intelligence, and support. Here in Ukraine, we had none of that.”
The funeral of a Ukrainian soldier in Odesa.
PHOTO: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post via Getty Images)
Phil, the UK veteran who has decided against enlisting in the legion for now, said those complaints were reflected in the concerns held by prospective recruits. A major concern among potential volunteers was whether they would be given adequate equipment, while many were also deterred by reports that they would need to sign contracts committing them to the fight indefinitely.
Russia’s vow to treat foreign fighters in Ukraine as illegal combatants, without any legal protections as prisoners of war, is also a worry. Moscow has said it considers foreign volunteers to be illegal mercenaries, meaning it will not protect them from reprisals, torture, or other degrading treatment if they are wounded or captured, as they are obliged to under international law.
“The reality is you’re probably never going to get anyone in that scenario,” said Phil. “I don’t anticipate Russians taking prisoners of war… The reality is you’re probably going to get a bullet in your head either way, whether you’re Ukrainian, British, Georgian, American - they're not going to hang around to ask questions.”
Phil said another major concern was that Russia could potentially try to exploit the presence of military veterans from NATO countries, like himself, and falsely claim that they were active-duty soldiers from Western armies who were infiltrating the conflict, as a pretext to expanding or escalating the war.
He also had reservations about the bravado he had detected among other prospective recruits, suggesting that many seemed to see the mission as a one-way trip. On online message boards where people discussed deploying to Ukraine, there was a lot of “really worrying macho talk of ‘Valhalla’,” he said, while on his trip to Ukraine he encountered a fellow veteran, an amputee who had lost part of their leg in battle, but was nevertheless determined to join the fighting in Ukraine.
“I don’t want to fight on the side of someone who’s there to die,” he said. “I want to fight on the side of someone who has a reason to go home.”
Kacper Rękawek, a postdoctoral fellow with the Center for Research on Extremism at the University of Oslo, who tracked the flow of foreign fighters into Ukraine since 2014, told VICE World News that the recent spate of reports of foreign volunteers leaving the conflict was to be expected.
“It’s the simple logic of any foreign volunteer deployment in a war that they find out that might not be for them, that this is different from what they thought it would be,” he said.
“We saw lots of bizarre stories of people coming in, we’re now seeing lots of bizarre stories of people coming out.”
Many foreign fighters arrived expecting to be handed a weapon and sent straight to the frontlines, but the reality was usually different. Rękawek said that the foreign volunteers – who didn’t speak the language and were unfamiliar with the conditions on the ground – needed extra support to be useful, and local conscripts were a bigger focus for the Ukrainian military.
“You don’t know the language, the local reality, you have to be attached to someone who speaks your language, or English at least,” he said. According to one report, Ukrainian military officials are rethinking their approach to foreign recruitment, after an initial group of foreign volunteers performed poorly in battle, and are focusing on recruiting highly skilled veterans instead.
Some foreign fighters are clearly making it to the frontline and finding the action they have been chasing. James Vasquez, a US army veteran and building contractor from Connecticut, has tweeted video from the battlefield showing his unit engaging in fierce fighting with Russian troops – along with fundraising appeals to help better equip Ukrainian forces.
Rękawek said that while some, like Vasquez, had made it into battle, many others would not and become frustrated.
“It takes a lot of time, patience, perseverance, luck, and guts from a given foreigner to eventually cut through all this and eventually get there and fight on the frontlines.”
As for Phil, while he remains open to the idea of going to Ukraine to work as a military trainer if the need arises, his focus now is to try to organise large-scale donations of supplies for the Ukrainian military.
“I will almost certainly be back in Poland next month, but I don’t anticipate necessarily crossing into Ukraine once again,” he said.
I Don’t Want to Be Cannon Fodder’: Foreign Fighters Are Leaving Ukraine
A would-be fighter tells VICE World News that concerns over a lack of firepower, war tourists, and potentially being executed by the Russians have put him off joining Ukraine's foreign legion.
Tim Hume
30 March 2022, 11:01am
When Phil, a 35-year-old former officer in the British Army, heard Ukraine’s call for foreign fighters to help defend the country from the Russian invasion, he felt he had to join the fight.
But after a fact-finding trip into Ukraine to get a better handle on the situation, he’s had second thoughts.
“There’s no point wasting my life for nothing,” he told VICE World News. “If I think I can go and support in a way that’s going to contribute to the security of Ukraine and the safety of Europe, then I will. But I don’t want to go on a suicide mission.”
Phil, left, outside Lviv train station
For a certain type of thrill-seeking idealist, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s appeal last month for foreign volunteers to join a newly formed international legion to fight the Russian invasion was an irresistible proposition.
To those appalled by the footage of the Russian assault, Zelenskyy’s call resonated as an opportunity to play a heroic role on the right side of history. Within 10 days, about 20,000 people from more than 50 countries –ranging from hardened veterans to people with no military training – had asked to join.
But a month on, there’s growing evidence that the reality of life as a foreign volunteer in Ukraine isn’t squaring with the romantic fantasy. Many foreign fighters, disenchanted with what they encountered, have already gone homeearly, with gripes ranging from a lack of adequate equipment and poor organisation, to the calibre of fellow foreign recruits.
One group of volunteers fled across the Polish border after a Russian missile attack on Yavoriv military base, where international recruits were receiving training, last month.
Canada’s Globe and Mail recently spoke to fighters who had abandoned the battle amid concerns over the lack of equipment, and being required to sign indefinite contracts, and were now doing humanitarian relief work in the country instead. A recent report in Belgium’s Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper claimed that more than half of the country’s foreign fighters in Ukraine had already returned home. “I didn't feel like serving as foreign cannon fodder,” one returnee told the outlet.
Meanwhile, some prospective volunteers, like Phil, are also cooling on the idea. After his recent trip with two fellow British veterans to Lviv and nearby Yavoriv, where they met with Ukrainian military officers to discuss potentially enlisting in the international legion, Phil and his associates decided not to enlist, at least for now.
“My kneejerk reaction was, ‘I have to do this, I have to go and fight.’ I couldn’t sit by and watch someone else do something I think is the right thing to do,” he said.
“But having been out there to see what the situation is, my views have been tempered to, ‘I need to help.’”
Phil, who did not want his last name used, said he believed his skills, as a former army captain with extensive frontline combat experience, meant he would add more value training international volunteers in Ukraine, “rather than being another grunt with a gun.”
But he had been told by Ukrainian officers during his visit that they currently had enough people filling training roles. And, as the Russian offensive had made much slower progress than was feared in the early days of the invasion, Ukraine did not yet seem to have an acute need for foreign manpower, he said.
“I am still prepared to go and do what needs to be done,” he said, adding that he intended to focus on coordinating donations of supplies to help Ukrainians. “But I don’t want to get in the way, I don't want to be cannon fodder, or even worse, sarin gas fodder.”
Phil’s comments come as a string of foreign volunteers back away from the fighting in Ukraine. VICE World News recently spoke to two foreign volunteers – one American and one Polish, both veterans of tours in Afghanistan – who had left Ukraine after enduring harrowing experiences on the battlefield, and surviving the devastating Russian missile attack on the Yavoriv base.
The soldiers said they were under-equipped and outmatched by the superior Russian firepower, and complained about the calibre of some of their fellow foreign recruits, suspecting that they were abusing drugs.
“You’ve got to realise that there isn't a war that has been fought like this in a long time,” Hieu Le, a 30-year-old American legionnaire, told VICE World News. “What's different with the US military and all the other NATO militaries—they're spoiled. When it comes to fighting a war, they have air support, medivac, logistics, all kinds of different levels of intelligence, and support. Here in Ukraine, we had none of that.”
The funeral of a Ukrainian soldier in Odesa.
PHOTO: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post via Getty Images)
Phil, the UK veteran who has decided against enlisting in the legion for now, said those complaints were reflected in the concerns held by prospective recruits. A major concern among potential volunteers was whether they would be given adequate equipment, while many were also deterred by reports that they would need to sign contracts committing them to the fight indefinitely.
Russia’s vow to treat foreign fighters in Ukraine as illegal combatants, without any legal protections as prisoners of war, is also a worry. Moscow has said it considers foreign volunteers to be illegal mercenaries, meaning it will not protect them from reprisals, torture, or other degrading treatment if they are wounded or captured, as they are obliged to under international law.
“The reality is you’re probably never going to get anyone in that scenario,” said Phil. “I don’t anticipate Russians taking prisoners of war… The reality is you’re probably going to get a bullet in your head either way, whether you’re Ukrainian, British, Georgian, American - they're not going to hang around to ask questions.”
Phil said another major concern was that Russia could potentially try to exploit the presence of military veterans from NATO countries, like himself, and falsely claim that they were active-duty soldiers from Western armies who were infiltrating the conflict, as a pretext to expanding or escalating the war.
He also had reservations about the bravado he had detected among other prospective recruits, suggesting that many seemed to see the mission as a one-way trip. On online message boards where people discussed deploying to Ukraine, there was a lot of “really worrying macho talk of ‘Valhalla’,” he said, while on his trip to Ukraine he encountered a fellow veteran, an amputee who had lost part of their leg in battle, but was nevertheless determined to join the fighting in Ukraine.
“I don’t want to fight on the side of someone who’s there to die,” he said. “I want to fight on the side of someone who has a reason to go home.”
Kacper Rękawek, a postdoctoral fellow with the Center for Research on Extremism at the University of Oslo, who tracked the flow of foreign fighters into Ukraine since 2014, told VICE World News that the recent spate of reports of foreign volunteers leaving the conflict was to be expected.
“It’s the simple logic of any foreign volunteer deployment in a war that they find out that might not be for them, that this is different from what they thought it would be,” he said.
“We saw lots of bizarre stories of people coming in, we’re now seeing lots of bizarre stories of people coming out.”
Many foreign fighters arrived expecting to be handed a weapon and sent straight to the frontlines, but the reality was usually different. Rękawek said that the foreign volunteers – who didn’t speak the language and were unfamiliar with the conditions on the ground – needed extra support to be useful, and local conscripts were a bigger focus for the Ukrainian military.
“You don’t know the language, the local reality, you have to be attached to someone who speaks your language, or English at least,” he said. According to one report, Ukrainian military officials are rethinking their approach to foreign recruitment, after an initial group of foreign volunteers performed poorly in battle, and are focusing on recruiting highly skilled veterans instead.
Some foreign fighters are clearly making it to the frontline and finding the action they have been chasing. James Vasquez, a US army veteran and building contractor from Connecticut, has tweeted video from the battlefield showing his unit engaging in fierce fighting with Russian troops – along with fundraising appeals to help better equip Ukrainian forces.
Rękawek said that while some, like Vasquez, had made it into battle, many others would not and become frustrated.
“It takes a lot of time, patience, perseverance, luck, and guts from a given foreigner to eventually cut through all this and eventually get there and fight on the frontlines.”
As for Phil, while he remains open to the idea of going to Ukraine to work as a military trainer if the need arises, his focus now is to try to organise large-scale donations of supplies for the Ukrainian military.
“I will almost certainly be back in Poland next month, but I don’t anticipate necessarily crossing into Ukraine once again,” he said.
3. pentagon wants ceasefire
Pentagon chief urges 'immediate' Ukraine ceasefire in call with Russian counterpart
13/05/2022 - 19:52
US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin (L) and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who spoke directly on the war in Ukraine for the first time since the war began on February 24 Alexei Druzhinin, Rod LAMKEY Sputnik/AFP/File
2 min
Washington (AFP) – US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine Friday in talks with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, but their first call since the war began resolved no immediate issues, the Pentagon said.
Shoigu spoke with Austin at the Pentagon chief's request for about an hour, their first direct discussion since February 18, six days before Russia invaded Ukraine.
"Secretary Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication," the Pentagon said in a statement.
The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the call, saying the two sides discussed current international security issues, "including the situation in Ukraine."
No other details were offered officially by either side, but a senior US defense official dampened expectations that any progress was made on the war situation beyond the reopening of a crucial line of communication between Moscow and Washington.
"The call itself didn't specifically solve any acute issues or lead to a direct change in what the Russians are doing or what they are saying," the official said.
The official added that the US call for a ceasefire was not a change in US policy toward the war, even as Washington has said it wants to support Ukraine with arms and funding in a longer effort to weaken the Russian military.
"Our call for a ceasefire is very much in line with what other allies and partners want to see happen," the official said.
French President Emmanuel Macron recently urged the two sides to negotiate a settlement.
On Friday German Chancellor Olaf Scholz asked Russian President Vladimir Putin in a call to agree to a ceasefire and negotiations, according to his office.
Scholz called for a ceasefire "as soon as possible to improve the humanitarian situation and make progress in the search for a diplomatic solution to the conflict," his office said.
The call also came as Finland and Sweden have expressed the desire to join the NATO defense alliance, a direct consequence of Russia's attack on Ukraine, which is not part of NATO.
Neither side would say whether NATO's expansion, which Russia has opposed, was discussed in the defense chiefs' call.
At the UN Security Council Friday, the United States branded as "ludicrous" Russian allegations that the US government had run a secret biological and chemical weapons program in Ukraine.
The allegations "are categorically false and ludicrous," said US Deputy Ambassador to the UN Richard Mills.
The defense chiefs' conversation came as Russian and Ukrainian forces battle along a long front line in eastern and southern Ukraine, with the Pentagon maintaining that Russia is weeks behind goals set in its war plan.
The Pentagon official said the Russians are "not making any major gains in the Donbas" region where the fighting is heaviest.
"Ukrainian artillery is frustrating Russian efforts to make much ground," the official said.
But Moscow has shown no indication of pulling back and is believed by Western intelligence to want to take control of a wide swath of southern Ukraine stretching along the Black Sea to Moldova.
Pentagon chief urges 'immediate' Ukraine ceasefire in call with Russian counterpart
13/05/2022 - 19:52
US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin (L) and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who spoke directly on the war in Ukraine for the first time since the war began on February 24 Alexei Druzhinin, Rod LAMKEY Sputnik/AFP/File
2 min
Washington (AFP) – US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine Friday in talks with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, but their first call since the war began resolved no immediate issues, the Pentagon said.
Shoigu spoke with Austin at the Pentagon chief's request for about an hour, their first direct discussion since February 18, six days before Russia invaded Ukraine.
"Secretary Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication," the Pentagon said in a statement.
The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the call, saying the two sides discussed current international security issues, "including the situation in Ukraine."
No other details were offered officially by either side, but a senior US defense official dampened expectations that any progress was made on the war situation beyond the reopening of a crucial line of communication between Moscow and Washington.
"The call itself didn't specifically solve any acute issues or lead to a direct change in what the Russians are doing or what they are saying," the official said.
The official added that the US call for a ceasefire was not a change in US policy toward the war, even as Washington has said it wants to support Ukraine with arms and funding in a longer effort to weaken the Russian military.
"Our call for a ceasefire is very much in line with what other allies and partners want to see happen," the official said.
French President Emmanuel Macron recently urged the two sides to negotiate a settlement.
On Friday German Chancellor Olaf Scholz asked Russian President Vladimir Putin in a call to agree to a ceasefire and negotiations, according to his office.
Scholz called for a ceasefire "as soon as possible to improve the humanitarian situation and make progress in the search for a diplomatic solution to the conflict," his office said.
The call also came as Finland and Sweden have expressed the desire to join the NATO defense alliance, a direct consequence of Russia's attack on Ukraine, which is not part of NATO.
Neither side would say whether NATO's expansion, which Russia has opposed, was discussed in the defense chiefs' call.
At the UN Security Council Friday, the United States branded as "ludicrous" Russian allegations that the US government had run a secret biological and chemical weapons program in Ukraine.
The allegations "are categorically false and ludicrous," said US Deputy Ambassador to the UN Richard Mills.
The defense chiefs' conversation came as Russian and Ukrainian forces battle along a long front line in eastern and southern Ukraine, with the Pentagon maintaining that Russia is weeks behind goals set in its war plan.
The Pentagon official said the Russians are "not making any major gains in the Donbas" region where the fighting is heaviest.
"Ukrainian artillery is frustrating Russian efforts to make much ground," the official said.
But Moscow has shown no indication of pulling back and is believed by Western intelligence to want to take control of a wide swath of southern Ukraine stretching along the Black Sea to Moldova.
Stop posting all these facts, they’ll call you a Pro-Putin Trumpster. Didn’t you see the meme on Twitter, a Ukrainian commando destroyed 20 Russian tanks with his bare hands. According to the meme, Russia will lose by weeks end. It’s a top story on CNN3. pentagon wants ceasefire
Pentagon chief urges 'immediate' Ukraine ceasefire in call with Russian counterpart
13/05/2022 - 19:52
US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin (L) and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who spoke directly on the war in Ukraine for the first time since the war began on February 24 Alexei Druzhinin, Rod LAMKEY Sputnik/AFP/File
2 min
Washington (AFP) – US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine Friday in talks with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, but their first call since the war began resolved no immediate issues, the Pentagon said.
Shoigu spoke with Austin at the Pentagon chief's request for about an hour, their first direct discussion since February 18, six days before Russia invaded Ukraine.
"Secretary Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication," the Pentagon said in a statement.
The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the call, saying the two sides discussed current international security issues, "including the situation in Ukraine."
No other details were offered officially by either side, but a senior US defense official dampened expectations that any progress was made on the war situation beyond the reopening of a crucial line of communication between Moscow and Washington.
"The call itself didn't specifically solve any acute issues or lead to a direct change in what the Russians are doing or what they are saying," the official said.
The official added that the US call for a ceasefire was not a change in US policy toward the war, even as Washington has said it wants to support Ukraine with arms and funding in a longer effort to weaken the Russian military.
"Our call for a ceasefire is very much in line with what other allies and partners want to see happen," the official said.
French President Emmanuel Macron recently urged the two sides to negotiate a settlement.
On Friday German Chancellor Olaf Scholz asked Russian President Vladimir Putin in a call to agree to a ceasefire and negotiations, according to his office.
Scholz called for a ceasefire "as soon as possible to improve the humanitarian situation and make progress in the search for a diplomatic solution to the conflict," his office said.
The call also came as Finland and Sweden have expressed the desire to join the NATO defense alliance, a direct consequence of Russia's attack on Ukraine, which is not part of NATO.
Neither side would say whether NATO's expansion, which Russia has opposed, was discussed in the defense chiefs' call.
At the UN Security Council Friday, the United States branded as "ludicrous" Russian allegations that the US government had run a secret biological and chemical weapons program in Ukraine.
The allegations "are categorically false and ludicrous," said US Deputy Ambassador to the UN Richard Mills.
The defense chiefs' conversation came as Russian and Ukrainian forces battle along a long front line in eastern and southern Ukraine, with the Pentagon maintaining that Russia is weeks behind goals set in its war plan.
The Pentagon official said the Russians are "not making any major gains in the Donbas" region where the fighting is heaviest.
"Ukrainian artillery is frustrating Russian efforts to make much ground," the official said.
But Moscow has shown no indication of pulling back and is believed by Western intelligence to want to take control of a wide swath of southern Ukraine stretching along the Black Sea to Moldova.
Ay at this stage in the game it is what it is….
I’ve been called all of that already at some point in this thread…
I post Ukraine plus and minuses just like Russia
6. Turkey ain’t feeling Finland and Sweden…possible to change their minds but now Turkey is like …. 
Erdogan says Turkey not supportive of Finland, Sweden joining NATO
Ece Toksabay
May 13, 202210:11 AM CDTLast Updated 2 days ago
ANKARA/HELSINKI, May 13 (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday it was not possible for NATO-member Turkey to support plans by Sweden and Finland to join the pact given that the Nordic countries were "home to many terrorist organisations".
Though Turkey has officially supported NATO enlargement since it joined the U.S.-led alliance 70 years ago, its opposition could pose a problem for Sweden and Finland given new members need unanimous agreement.
Turkey has repeatedly slammed Sweden and other Western European countries for its handling of organisations deemed terrorist by Ankara, including the Kurdish militant groups PKK and YPG, and the followers of U.S.-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen. Ankara says Gulenists carried out a coup attempt in 2016. Gulen and his supporters deny the accusation.
Finland's plan to apply for NATO membership, announced Thursday, and the expectation that Sweden will follow, would bring about the expansion of the Western military alliance that Russian President Vladimir Putin aimed to prevent by launching the invasion of Ukraine.
"We are following the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we don't hold positive views," Erdogan told reporters in Istanbul, adding it had been a mistake for NATO to accept Greece as a member in the past.
"As Turkey, we don't want to repeat similar mistakes. Furthermore, Scandinavian countries are guesthouses for terrorist organisations," Erdogan said, without giving details.
"They are even members of the parliament in some countries. It is not possible for us to be in favour," he added.
Turkey's President Tayyip Erdogan holds a news conference during the NATO summit at the Alliance's headquarters in Brussels, Belgium June 14, 2021. REUTERS/Yves Herman/Pool/File Photo
In response, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto urged patience and called for a step-by-step approach in response to Turkish resistance. read more He also said he was due to meet his Turkish counterpart in Berlin on Saturday. read more
Meanwhile, Sweden said it remained confident it could secure unanimous backing for any NATO application it could submit.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg had said the Finns would be "warmly welcomed" and promised a "smooth and swift" accession process, which is also backed by Washington.
Aaron Stein, research director at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, said on Twitter with respect to Turkish opposition: "Turkish national security elites view Finland and Sweden as semi-hostile, given the presence of PKK and Gulenists. It's gonna take arm twisting to get sign-off."
NATO states that membership is open to any "European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area".
Finland and Sweden are already NATO's closest partners, sitting in on many meetings, getting regularly briefed on the situation in Ukraine and taking part in regular military drills with NATO allies. Much of their military equipment is inter-operable with NATO allies.
However, they cannot benefit from NATO's collective defence clause - that an attack on one ally is an attack on all - until they join the alliance.
Moscow on Thursday called Finland's announcement hostile and threatened retaliation, including unspecified "military-technical" measures.
Turkey has criticised Russia's invasion, sent armed drones to Ukraine and sought to facilitate peace talks between the sides. But it has not backed Western sanctions on Moscow and seeks to maintain close trade, energy and tourism ties with Russia.
Additional reporting by Johan Ahlander in Stockholm, Anne Ringstrom and Simon Johnson in Stockholm, Essi Lehto in Helsinki, Daren Butler in Istanbul, Robin Emmott in Brussels and Gwladys Fouche in Oslo; Editing by Jonathan Spicer and Jon Boyle
Erdogan says Turkey not supportive of Finland, Sweden joining NATO
Ece Toksabay
May 13, 202210:11 AM CDTLast Updated 2 days ago
ANKARA/HELSINKI, May 13 (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday it was not possible for NATO-member Turkey to support plans by Sweden and Finland to join the pact given that the Nordic countries were "home to many terrorist organisations".
Though Turkey has officially supported NATO enlargement since it joined the U.S.-led alliance 70 years ago, its opposition could pose a problem for Sweden and Finland given new members need unanimous agreement.
Turkey has repeatedly slammed Sweden and other Western European countries for its handling of organisations deemed terrorist by Ankara, including the Kurdish militant groups PKK and YPG, and the followers of U.S.-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen. Ankara says Gulenists carried out a coup attempt in 2016. Gulen and his supporters deny the accusation.
Finland's plan to apply for NATO membership, announced Thursday, and the expectation that Sweden will follow, would bring about the expansion of the Western military alliance that Russian President Vladimir Putin aimed to prevent by launching the invasion of Ukraine.
"We are following the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we don't hold positive views," Erdogan told reporters in Istanbul, adding it had been a mistake for NATO to accept Greece as a member in the past.
"As Turkey, we don't want to repeat similar mistakes. Furthermore, Scandinavian countries are guesthouses for terrorist organisations," Erdogan said, without giving details.
"They are even members of the parliament in some countries. It is not possible for us to be in favour," he added.
Turkey's President Tayyip Erdogan holds a news conference during the NATO summit at the Alliance's headquarters in Brussels, Belgium June 14, 2021. REUTERS/Yves Herman/Pool/File Photo
In response, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto urged patience and called for a step-by-step approach in response to Turkish resistance. read more He also said he was due to meet his Turkish counterpart in Berlin on Saturday. read more
Meanwhile, Sweden said it remained confident it could secure unanimous backing for any NATO application it could submit.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg had said the Finns would be "warmly welcomed" and promised a "smooth and swift" accession process, which is also backed by Washington.
Aaron Stein, research director at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, said on Twitter with respect to Turkish opposition: "Turkish national security elites view Finland and Sweden as semi-hostile, given the presence of PKK and Gulenists. It's gonna take arm twisting to get sign-off."
NATO states that membership is open to any "European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area".
Finland and Sweden are already NATO's closest partners, sitting in on many meetings, getting regularly briefed on the situation in Ukraine and taking part in regular military drills with NATO allies. Much of their military equipment is inter-operable with NATO allies.
However, they cannot benefit from NATO's collective defence clause - that an attack on one ally is an attack on all - until they join the alliance.
Moscow on Thursday called Finland's announcement hostile and threatened retaliation, including unspecified "military-technical" measures.
Turkey has criticised Russia's invasion, sent armed drones to Ukraine and sought to facilitate peace talks between the sides. But it has not backed Western sanctions on Moscow and seeks to maintain close trade, energy and tourism ties with Russia.
Additional reporting by Johan Ahlander in Stockholm, Anne Ringstrom and Simon Johnson in Stockholm, Essi Lehto in Helsinki, Daren Butler in Istanbul, Robin Emmott in Brussels and Gwladys Fouche in Oslo; Editing by Jonathan Spicer and Jon Boyle
Maybe the Turkish have strong ties to Moscow
5. Turkey former military leaders fault NATO for Russian invasion
Russia-Ukraine war: Turkey's talk show generals sway public against Nato
Pro-government media is pushing a narrative of the Russian invasion very different to Ankara's position - and it's having an effect on public opinion
The Russian invasion in Ukraine has split Turkish society, with mainstream media featuring retired generals and commentators who blame the war on Washington and Nato’s eastward expansion.
Turkey has continued to deliver armed drones and ammunition to Kyiv since the beginning of the war in February, and officially criticised Russia’s invasion as “illegal”.
Yet its largely government-aligned television stations have mostly featured Turkish nationalist pundits, who distrust Nato and the United States and believe Russia was provoked by western intelligence services into the war and is itself a victim. Around 61 percent of Turkish people consume news through televisions.
Russia-Ukraine war: Hundreds of Turks desperately await evacuation from Mariupol
Read More »
One well-known admiral saluted the Russian military operation in Ukraine as “a step to end the imperialist Atlanticist” age, and another claimed that Moscow was tricked into the conflict so it will be weakened for years to come.
Some pundits asserted that Russia’s victory in Ukraine would embolden Turkey, others said that Moscow wasn’t massacring people and was in fact opening an opportunity for peace by not seizing Kyiv, despite Russia's military clearly failing to capture the city.
The Turkish public has always been aware of the existence of so-called Euroasinists - nationalists who see Turkey's aims and geography linked to Russia and China - within the senior ranks of the armed forces. But this time all the retired generals and colonels appearing on Turkish media have almost unanimously sympathised with Russia.
The pro-Russian line in the media has provoked a public response in a series of articles and tweets by the two retired Turkish ambassadors, Selim Kuneralp and Tunc Ugdul, who in recent years held key diplomatic positions.
They said they were deeply disappointed by the distortion of truth.
“This is a result of three-decades-long growing anti-western sentiment within the public and the state, who just wouldn’t look into the facts,” Kuneralp told Middle East Eye. “When it comes to the retired generals, I think their personal grievances while they were serving in Nato got the better side of them.”
Euroasianist views
Anti-Americanism has been rampant in Turkey since the 1980 coup, which was believed to be backed by Washington. Later, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan only solidified the sentiment. The US decision to work with the Syrian-Kurdish YPG paramilitary closely tied to the outlawed PKK militant group also inflamed public animosity against the American military.
Euroasianists are a broad church, but they are mostly led by Dogu Perincek, the leader of the Homeland Party. Perincek, a former Maoist, is believed to have sympathisers within the state and the military, people who call for closer ties with Russia and China.
Euroasianist views can be found in the daily newspaper Aydinlik, which is closely affiliated with Perincek.
The paper denies that a genocide has been taking place against the Uyghur minority in China and accuses the Western media of creating fake massacres in Ukraine to blame on Russia.
Such views have been found in other media as well, including the recently flourishing VeryansinTv, where secular Turkish-nationalist retired generals and military officers regularly attack the West. Criticism of Russia and China is almost non-existent.
Last month, the US Treasury sanctioned a think tank closely associated with Perincek’s movement, United World International (UWI), in connection with Russia’s “efforts to promulgate disinformation and influence perceptions".
Following the sanctions, UWI's editor Elif Ilhamoglu said it was a testament to their success. "Considering Washington's past sanctions against countries like Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia and China, sanctioning UWI was a logical move," she said. "Because UWI has been a voice of these countries."
Ismail Hakki Pekin, a former head of the Turkish military’s intelligence division, often appears as an expert on UWI's website and has been a frequent guest of TV channels since the Ukraine crisis began. In multiple TV appearances and articles he first claimed that Russia would never attack Ukraine - “it was American psychological warfare” - and later predicted that Ukraine would quickly fall and Moscow would accomplish what it wanted. MEE has reached out Pekin for a comment.
Even one of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's close friends, businessman Ethem Sancak, appeared on a Russian TV station saying that Turkey’s Nato membership was something to be ashamed of.
“They have toppled all of our leaders,” he told RBK TV last month. “The main culprit in the Ukraine issue is Nato. It is a cancer. We won’t join the sanctions against Russia because if Russia falls, Turkey could be partitioned.”
Sancak, who is also close to Perincek and was visiting Moscow with a Homeland Party delegation when he appeared on RBK TV, complained that Turkish-supplied Bayraktar TB2 drones were being used by Kyiv to pummel Russian troops and equipment. He claimed Turkey didn’t know that Ukraine could use Turkish drones against Russia “in this way”.
The Istanbul branch of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) earlier this month started proceedings to expel Sancak after he also claimed that Erdogan and his party were brought to power thanks to Washington.
Anti-western sentiment
Retired ambassador Kuneralp doesn’t understand the Euroasianist position. He notes that communism has been long dead, and told MEE there is no ideological motivation to back countries like Russia, where corruption is rampant and human rights are under threat.
"They always talk about how the US soldiers treated our soldiers in Iraq in 2003, but none of them mention how Russia martyred 34 Turkish soldiers in Syria two years ago," he said.
Ugdul, the other retired ambassador, told MEE that it wasn’t particularly wise for Turkey’s military elite to side with Russia and try to abandon Nato, despite American misdeeds and violations in the region.
Turkey blamed Syria for a deadly air strike. Its troops blame Russia
Read More »
“It is odd to be so anti-western while your children study in western countries and settle down there, and the majority of you don’t think of living in Moscow or Beijing,” Ugdul said.
“Russia fought wars against the Ottoman Empire 12 times and made territorial requests of the Turkish Republic. The real reason they cannot do that now is our Nato membership.”
However, the widespread presence of pro-Russian voices on Turkish TV has a sway on the public.
A March poll conducted by Metropoll indicated that 48 percent of the Turkish public think that the US and Nato are responsible for the situation in Ukraine.
Around 7.5 percent blamed Ukraine itself for the situation. Only 33.7 percent said Russia carries the blame.
Ozer Sancar, the general manager of Metropoll, told MEE that anti-western sentiment was prevalent among political parties in Turkey, whether they are right or leftwing.
“Euroasianist retired generals, or so-called experts, through television and media are feeding the Turkish public with the pro-Russia rhetoric that also blamed Nato and US for the invasion of Ukraine, despite the massacre of civilians,” Sancar said. “And you see the impact in the Turkish public opinion.”
5. Turkey former military leaders fault NATO for Russian invasion
Russia-Ukraine war: Turkey's talk show generals sway public against Nato
Pro-government media is pushing a narrative of the Russian invasion very different to Ankara's position - and it's having an effect on public opinion
The Russian invasion in Ukraine has split Turkish society, with mainstream media featuring retired generals and commentators who blame the war on Washington and Nato’s eastward expansion.
Turkey has continued to deliver armed drones and ammunition to Kyiv since the beginning of the war in February, and officially criticised Russia’s invasion as “illegal”.
Yet its largely government-aligned television stations have mostly featured Turkish nationalist pundits, who distrust Nato and the United States and believe Russia was provoked by western intelligence services into the war and is itself a victim. Around 61 percent of Turkish people consume news through televisions.
Russia-Ukraine war: Hundreds of Turks desperately await evacuation from Mariupol
Read More »
One well-known admiral saluted the Russian military operation in Ukraine as “a step to end the imperialist Atlanticist” age, and another claimed that Moscow was tricked into the conflict so it will be weakened for years to come.
Some pundits asserted that Russia’s victory in Ukraine would embolden Turkey, others said that Moscow wasn’t massacring people and was in fact opening an opportunity for peace by not seizing Kyiv, despite Russia's military clearly failing to capture the city.
The Turkish public has always been aware of the existence of so-called Euroasinists - nationalists who see Turkey's aims and geography linked to Russia and China - within the senior ranks of the armed forces. But this time all the retired generals and colonels appearing on Turkish media have almost unanimously sympathised with Russia.
The pro-Russian line in the media has provoked a public response in a series of articles and tweets by the two retired Turkish ambassadors, Selim Kuneralp and Tunc Ugdul, who in recent years held key diplomatic positions.
They said they were deeply disappointed by the distortion of truth.
“This is a result of three-decades-long growing anti-western sentiment within the public and the state, who just wouldn’t look into the facts,” Kuneralp told Middle East Eye. “When it comes to the retired generals, I think their personal grievances while they were serving in Nato got the better side of them.”
Euroasianist views
Anti-Americanism has been rampant in Turkey since the 1980 coup, which was believed to be backed by Washington. Later, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan only solidified the sentiment. The US decision to work with the Syrian-Kurdish YPG paramilitary closely tied to the outlawed PKK militant group also inflamed public animosity against the American military.
Euroasianists are a broad church, but they are mostly led by Dogu Perincek, the leader of the Homeland Party. Perincek, a former Maoist, is believed to have sympathisers within the state and the military, people who call for closer ties with Russia and China.
Euroasianist views can be found in the daily newspaper Aydinlik, which is closely affiliated with Perincek.
The paper denies that a genocide has been taking place against the Uyghur minority in China and accuses the Western media of creating fake massacres in Ukraine to blame on Russia.
Such views have been found in other media as well, including the recently flourishing VeryansinTv, where secular Turkish-nationalist retired generals and military officers regularly attack the West. Criticism of Russia and China is almost non-existent.
Last month, the US Treasury sanctioned a think tank closely associated with Perincek’s movement, United World International (UWI), in connection with Russia’s “efforts to promulgate disinformation and influence perceptions".
The Treasury said that the Russian government was using think tanks and outlets like UWI to falsely justify the Kremlin’s activities, linking the Turkey-based organisation to Putin ally Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who in the past has been accused of interfering with US elections.
Following the sanctions, UWI's editor Elif Ilhamoglu said it was a testament to their success. "Considering Washington's past sanctions against countries like Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia and China, sanctioning UWI was a logical move," she said. "Because UWI has been a voice of these countries."
Ismail Hakki Pekin, a former head of the Turkish military’s intelligence division, often appears as an expert on UWI's website and has been a frequent guest of TV channels since the Ukraine crisis began. In multiple TV appearances and articles he first claimed that Russia would never attack Ukraine - “it was American psychological warfare” - and later predicted that Ukraine would quickly fall and Moscow would accomplish what it wanted. MEE has reached out Pekin for a comment.
Even one of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's close friends, businessman Ethem Sancak, appeared on a Russian TV station saying that Turkey’s Nato membership was something to be ashamed of.
“They have toppled all of our leaders,” he told RBK TV last month. “The main culprit in the Ukraine issue is Nato. It is a cancer. We won’t join the sanctions against Russia because if Russia falls, Turkey could be partitioned.”
Sancak, who is also close to Perincek and was visiting Moscow with a Homeland Party delegation when he appeared on RBK TV, complained that Turkish-supplied Bayraktar TB2 drones were being used by Kyiv to pummel Russian troops and equipment. He claimed Turkey didn’t know that Ukraine could use Turkish drones against Russia “in this way”.
The Istanbul branch of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) earlier this month started proceedings to expel Sancak after he also claimed that Erdogan and his party were brought to power thanks to Washington.
Anti-western sentiment
Retired ambassador Kuneralp doesn’t understand the Euroasianist position. He notes that communism has been long dead, and told MEE there is no ideological motivation to back countries like Russia, where corruption is rampant and human rights are under threat.
"They always talk about how the US soldiers treated our soldiers in Iraq in 2003, but none of them mention how Russia martyred 34 Turkish soldiers in Syria two years ago," he said.
Ugdul, the other retired ambassador, told MEE that it wasn’t particularly wise for Turkey’s military elite to side with Russia and try to abandon Nato, despite American misdeeds and violations in the region.
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“It is odd to be so anti-western while your children study in western countries and settle down there, and the majority of you don’t think of living in Moscow or Beijing,” Ugdul said.
“Russia fought wars against the Ottoman Empire 12 times and made territorial requests of the Turkish Republic. The real reason they cannot do that now is our Nato membership.”
However, the widespread presence of pro-Russian voices on Turkish TV has a sway on the public.
A March poll conducted by Metropoll indicated that 48 percent of the Turkish public think that the US and Nato are responsible for the situation in Ukraine.
Around 7.5 percent blamed Ukraine itself for the situation. Only 33.7 percent said Russia carries the blame.
Ozer Sancar, the general manager of Metropoll, told MEE that anti-western sentiment was prevalent among political parties in Turkey, whether they are right or leftwing.
“Euroasianist retired generals, or so-called experts, through television and media are feeding the Turkish public with the pro-Russia rhetoric that also blamed Nato and US for the invasion of Ukraine, despite the massacre of civilians,” Sancar said. “And you see the impact in the Turkish public opinion.”
said they'd only give the stock & crypto tips to ados & fba .... i mean ..it is what it is...Ayoooo.... haven't seen you around much in these parts, this thread, after this reply..... you working on some stock tips for the fam? Some crypto picks? Investment portfolios?
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said they'd only give the stock & crypto tips to ados & fba .... i mean ..it is what it is...
This map show why I don’t think there’s no winners or losers at this point….(only the dead People)
unless talks end this…soo
russia captured some land they didn’t have before…
they attempting to formed a barrier around Donetsk and Luhansk blast areas
getting Mariupol (Kherson & Melitpol blast) helps block Crimea)
Ukrainians likely keep attacking that areas, with the hopes of pushing the Russians back
(To get to the Russian speaking Ukrainians in those areas and then take Crimea back)
so yes some areas Russia winning and Ukraine losing but it’s highly likely the US will win and Russia lose…
unless talks end this…soo
russia captured some land they didn’t have before…
they attempting to formed a barrier around Donetsk and Luhansk blast areas
getting Mariupol (Kherson & Melitpol blast) helps block Crimea)
Ukrainians likely keep attacking that areas, with the hopes of pushing the Russians back
(To get to the Russian speaking Ukrainians in those areas and then take Crimea back)
so yes some areas Russia winning and Ukraine losing but it’s highly likely the US will win and Russia lose…
6. Turkey ain’t feeling Finland and Sweden…possible to change their minds but now Turkey is like ….
Erdogan says Turkey not supportive of Finland, Sweden joining NATO
Ece Toksabay
May 13, 202210:11 AM CDTLast Updated 2 days ago
ANKARA/HELSINKI, May 13 (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday it was not possible for NATO-member Turkey to support plans by Sweden and Finland to join the pact given that the Nordic countries were "home to many terrorist organisations".
Though Turkey has officially supported NATO enlargement since it joined the U.S.-led alliance 70 years ago, its opposition could pose a problem for Sweden and Finland given new members need unanimous agreement.
Turkey has repeatedly slammed Sweden and other Western European countries for its handling of organisations deemed terrorist by Ankara, including the Kurdish militant groups PKK and YPG, and the followers of U.S.-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen. Ankara says Gulenists carried out a coup attempt in 2016. Gulen and his supporters deny the accusation.
Finland's plan to apply for NATO membership, announced Thursday, and the expectation that Sweden will follow, would bring about the expansion of the Western military alliance that Russian President Vladimir Putin aimed to prevent by launching the invasion of Ukraine.
"We are following the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we don't hold positive views," Erdogan told reporters in Istanbul, adding it had been a mistake for NATO to accept Greece as a member in the past.
"As Turkey, we don't want to repeat similar mistakes. Furthermore, Scandinavian countries are guesthouses for terrorist organisations," Erdogan said, without giving details.
"They are even members of the parliament in some countries. It is not possible for us to be in favour," he added.
Turkey's President Tayyip Erdogan holds a news conference during the NATO summit at the Alliance's headquarters in Brussels, Belgium June 14, 2021. REUTERS/Yves Herman/Pool/File Photo
In response, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto urged patience and called for a step-by-step approach in response to Turkish resistance. read more He also said he was due to meet his Turkish counterpart in Berlin on Saturday. read more
Meanwhile, Sweden said it remained confident it could secure unanimous backing for any NATO application it could submit.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg had said the Finns would be "warmly welcomed" and promised a "smooth and swift" accession process, which is also backed by Washington.
Aaron Stein, research director at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, said on Twitter with respect to Turkish opposition: "Turkish national security elites view Finland and Sweden as semi-hostile, given the presence of PKK and Gulenists. It's gonna take arm twisting to get sign-off."
NATO states that membership is open to any "European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area".
Finland and Sweden are already NATO's closest partners, sitting in on many meetings, getting regularly briefed on the situation in Ukraine and taking part in regular military drills with NATO allies. Much of their military equipment is inter-operable with NATO allies.
However, they cannot benefit from NATO's collective defence clause - that an attack on one ally is an attack on all - until they join the alliance.
Moscow on Thursday called Finland's announcement hostile and threatened retaliation, including unspecified "military-technical" measures.
Turkey has criticised Russia's invasion, sent armed drones to Ukraine and sought to facilitate peace talks between the sides. But it has not backed Western sanctions on Moscow and seeks to maintain close trade, energy and tourism ties with Russia.
Additional reporting by Johan Ahlander in Stockholm, Anne Ringstrom and Simon Johnson in Stockholm, Essi Lehto in Helsinki, Daren Butler in Istanbul, Robin Emmott in Brussels and Gwladys Fouche in Oslo; Editing by Jonathan Spicer and Jon Boyle
Erdogan loves using Gulen and the PKK like cacs use antifa here. Turkey has had insane inflation for a while (70%) and we are only 5 years+ removed from the coup attempt.
Delicate balancing act for him but he isn't in a position to block this shit as evidenced by the official announcement today from Finland.Yesterday:
Turkey Won't Block Finland and Sweden Joining NATO, Denmark Says
Turkey Won't Block Finland and Sweden Joining NATO, Denmark Says
Danish Foreign Minister Jeppe Kofod told Newsweek he expects "unity in NATO around this issue" despite apparent Turkish objections.
www.newsweek.com
Today:
It's official: Finland to apply for Nato membership
President Sauli Niinistö said on Sunday afternoon that Finland was entering a new era.
It's official: Finland to apply for Nato membership
President Sauli Niinistö said on Sunday afternoon that Finland was entering a new era.
yle.fi
Finland has been neutral since 1956 but is now joining NATO. I remember when Putin announced prior to the invasion that the goals were NATO Expansion.
This is up there with Ukraine having more tanks than they started the war with in terms of being too ridiculous to believe despite being true.
Russia Estimated To Have Lost A Third Of It’s Ground Combat Forces
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