Black / Native American Question for the Fam?

Goddamn man Lmaooooo thanks for bringing him down a whole peg you bastard! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

It's called: the "you are doing something that makes me uncomfortable because I am still black and you probably ain't and it pisses me off, so like a crab in the barrel, I simply MUST ridicule you." Syndrome.

Seems to be spreading.

And yet the O.P. retains his dignity. Good show.

Sorry. I could not help myself.
 
Greetings Fam,

If you have an ancestor who you think was a part of one of the Five Civilized Tribes: Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creeks, or Seminole; here's a resource for you.

This is the
Index to the Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes in Indian Territory (Dawes). If you know what specific tribe, all you have to do is scroll down and click on the link and search for their names.

If they were a part of one of these tribes, they should be entered here. It shouldn't matter if they're Full Blood or Freedmen.

Good luck Fam. Once you know, you'll never look at things the same way again.
 
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It's called: the "you are doing something that makes me uncomfortable because I am still black and you probably ain't and it pisses me off, so like a crab in the barrel, I simply MUST ridicule you." Syndrome.

Seems to be spreading.

And yet the O.P. retains his dignity. Good show.

Sorry. I could not help myself.
Good stuff, Bro...

Real talk Fam,

I've been "Black" all of my life. I'm going to be Black for the rest of my life. I'll never deny my Blackness. But, I can embrace the other flavors that are mixed into this Gumbo too. There's nothing wrong with that that I see.

We're fortunate in that we've found some ancestors who we didn't know. Who doesn't want to find out the names of their G-G-G-Grandfather ( ours named Willis) and G-G-G-Grandmother ( named Inkinlabbu)? I can have dinner with my family, and we can discuss having a GGG-GrMom named "Inkinlabbu." For real! That's just good shit to me. This doesn't have anything to with changing ethnicity as some may think. It has everything to do with "Family." Anything after that is just extra knowledge-knowledge of self.

I'm sharing because I know that there are others out there who could be inspired to search like we're searching. It's a rabbit hole like I've said earlier. But, it's rewarding.

Some people will get it, and some people won't. Some will take it seriously, while others will think it's a joke. Both are Okay as far as I'm concerned.
 
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We are the landlords of this land and the euro rejects are the tenants!!! Its time to come together and find ours tribes!!! Anyway, never forget!! Everything you see when you walk outside your front/back door was stolen and claimed to be invented by these euro pilgrims!!! Our ancestors(copper color people) had this whole corporation up and running before the pilgrims set foot on our land!!
 
Ain’t do my yet but my cousin brother and mother did it.
got African Scottish English and indigenous American. Oh and Asian
which I’ve heard my great grandfather was indian
 
Ain’t do my yet but my cousin brother and mother did it.
got African Scottish English and indigenous American. Oh and Asian
which I’ve heard my great grandfather was indian
Based on my experience, which is very little... I'd say, see if you can find a paper trail, then follow it. That's going to give you more than the DNA stuff, because I don't believe the DNA stuff is accurate. You'll get different results depending on which company takes the sample from you.

Follow both birth and death certificates... That's the best place to start.
 
Based on my experience, which is very little... I'd say, see if you can find a paper trail, then follow it. That's going to give you more than the DNA stuff, because I don't believe the DNA stuff is accurate. You'll get different results depending on which company takes the sample from you.

Follow both birth and death certificates... That's the best place to start.

Right on, write on, bruh!! If a person is going to do the DNA testing, you gotta dig up each and every grandparent and great and great great and so on.. Depending on whos in your family, if you have so called native americans in your make up there not allowed to get into the DNA game.. Because there dna will expose the damn illusion!! And if you give your dna to one of these ancestry sites, they are allowed to do whatever they want with your dna!! Those sites ancestry sites dna results are for entertainment only, but can turn over/sell your dna results over to ANYONE!!! So, a person gotta be careful who they give their dna too or be comfortable and believe these corporations have your best interest at heart!!
 
Right on, write on, bruh!! If a person is going to do the DNA testing, you gotta dig up each and every grandparent and great and great great and so on.. Depending on whos in your family, if you have so called native americans in your make up there not allowed to get into the DNA game.. Because there dna will expose the damn illusion!! And if you give your dna to one of these ancestry sites, they are allowed to do whatever they want with your dna!! Those sites ancestry sites dna results are for entertainment only, but can turn over/sell your dna results over to ANYONE!!! So, a person gotta be careful who they give their dna too or be comfortable and believe these corporations have your best interest at heart!!


Groundless superstition and made up nonsense.

"not allowed to get into the dna game"--
Where are you getting your "information"? A Cracker Jack box?

Sounds to me like you are just making shit up.

By the way, your dna can be sampled far more easily than you apparently realize. Not difficult at all.
 
Good luck on trying to track down your lineage.

You need to do it asap because the Choctaw Nation was giving nice checks for their members for covid relief.

The natives in Oklahoma are essentially cacs so don't expect much help from them.
 
Groundless superstition and made up nonsense.

"not allowed to get into the dna game"--
Where are you getting your "information"? A Cracker Jack box?

Sounds to me like you are just making shit up.

By the way, your dna can be sampled far more easily than you apparently realize. Not difficult at all.

Yeah, whatever???
 
We did it via paper trail by the way, not dna for my mothers side (we’re Cherokee).

My fathers side bullshitting because their Creek and Choctaw I believe.
 
We did it via paper trail by the way, not dna for my mothers side (we’re Cherokee).

My fathers side bullshitting because their Creek and Choctaw I believe.
From what I gathered, the Chickasaw and the Choctaw were part of the same tribe then they split apart from each other ages ago. But, they retained close ties. I would say that on your Dad's side, there's a higher probability that it's Chickasaw and Choctaw.

But, I believe some of those tribes started to intermingle once they reached Indian Territory (Oklahoma). So, you could very well be correct.

Instead of the government giving the land to the tribes, they "alloted" the land to individuals in the tribe. That was a mechanism for dividing the tribes up from within, and it worked. So, you could have a Siminole living in one spot, and say a Creek living in close proximity with whites strewn between all of them sowing division.
 
From what I gathered, the Chickasaw and the Choctaw were part of the same tribe then they split apart from each other ages ago. But, they retained close ties. I would say that on your Dad's side, there's a higher probability that it's Chickasaw and Choctaw.

But, I believe some of those tribes started to intermingle once they reached Indian Territory (Oklahoma). So, you could very well be correct.

Instead of the government giving the land to the tribes, they "alloted" the land to individuals in the tribe. That was a mechanism for dividing the tribes up from within, and it worked. So, you could have a Siminole living in one spot, and say a Creek living in close proximity with whites strewn between all of them sowing division.

This, and the confusion regarding who is Native by blood, and who is Native by "enrollment" muddied the waters further. This perhaps explains all the so-called "Indians" who are clearly white or Black, and not native at all.
 
Greetings Fam...
For those of you who are from Alabama, y'all may find this article interesting. Alabama Choctaws

Tuscaloosa is the Choctaw word for "Black Warrior." I didn't know that until I started studying all of this stuff.

Anyway, the article talks about how some Creek and Chickasaw natives sold some Choctaw into slavery to the British who had plantations in South Carolina. The British also sent Choctaw slaves to The British Islands. So then the Choctaw aligned themselves with the French (who took over Louisiana), bought guns from them and started attacking the Natchez, Creek, Chickasaw, and the British.

White people have been causing division since they touched down on American soil.
 
Just a small update for the Fam.

Several people who are Black Choctaws have encouraged me to apply for what's a "CDIB" certificate. CBID stands for "Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood." To get this document, one has to prove his lineage to the United State Department of Indian Affairs. I have to send them proof that I am a descendant of an Indian who is on the Dawes Roll and/ Census.

You prove this by birth and death certificates. Basically, you have to show them your paper trail back to your ancestor. Really, I think this is bullshit, because if I can show them the paper trail, and they are the creators of the paper trail, then they already know. They're just making me show them the proof that they already have. Once you gain this certificate, then you apply to an Indian Nation (Tribe).

Again Fam... This is all about stolen land. They took Natives and changed their ethnicity to Negro and/or Mulatto so they could take their land.




 
Just a small update for the Fam.

Several people who are Black Choctaws have encouraged me to apply for what's a "CDIB" certificate. CBID stands for "Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood." To get this document, one has to prove his lineage to the United State Department of Indian Affairs. I have to send them proof that I am a descendant of an Indian who is on the Dawes Roll and/ Census.

You prove this by birth and death certificates. Basically, you have to show them your paper trail back to your ancestor. Really, I think this is bullshit, because if I can show them the paper trail, and they are the creators of the paper trail, then they already know. They're just making me show them the proof that they already have. Once you gain this certificate, then you apply to an Indian Nation (Tribe).

Again Fam... This is all about stolen land. They took Natives and changed their ethnicity to Negro and/or Mulatto so they could take their land.




No such think as a black Choctaw by blood. Black people who claim connection the Choctaw nation are not ethnically Native.
They are descendants of the slaves of Natives who are identified as Choctaw just as African Americans are identified as American.

The guy in the video reminds me of the people who claim Black Americans are some sort of Moorish-Asian people.

He is clearly not Native. All you have to do is look. Believe your eyes. They are not lying.
 
No such think as a black Choctaw by blood. Black people who claim connection the Choctaw nation are not ethnically Native.
They are descendants of the slaves of Natives who are identified as Choctaw just as African Americans are identified as American.

The guy in the video reminds me of the people who claim Black Americans are some sort of Moorish-Asian people.

He is clearly not Native. All you have to do is look. Believe your eyes. They are not lying.
I would have said that too, several months ago. But my research is opening up new doors. I'm seeing things totally different now. There are Black people who are descendants of slaves of the Native people, true (The Freedmen). But, there are also so-called Black people who are a part of Native tribes through bloodlines. Now most of these Black Natives (the term "Black" being a misnomer) are not accepted by the current Native Tribes (who are really European/White).

But, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, believe what you want. I'm just sharing what I'm sharing, and I'm hoping that together we can all get on the same page and hash this out.

As far as your statment, believe your eyes... That's precisely why we're in this mess. When you go to a magic show, they usually say, "You Won't Believe Your Eyes!" Because they already know that our visual senses are what we rely on the most. So they play on that... and they get over.
 
Greetings Fam...
For those of you who are from Alabama, y'all may find this article interesting. Alabama Choctaws

Tuscaloosa is the Choctaw word for "Black Warrior." I didn't know that until I started studying all of this stuff.

Anyway, the article talks about how some Creek and Chickasaw natives sold some Choctaw into slavery to the British who had plantations in South Carolina. The British also sent Choctaw slaves to The British Islands. So then the Choctaw aligned themselves with the French (who took over Louisiana), bought guns from them and started attacking the Natchez, Creek, Chickasaw, and the British.

White people have been causing division since they touched down on American soil.

Facts, divide and conquer is their strategy :smh:

Not to mention, After Tuscaloosa's death, cacs bred into that native community and renamed it to the Creek Confederacy. Eventually, they appointed a half native/half white chief by the name of William Mcintosh to lead the Confederacy. Mcintosh encouraged all full-blooded natives to marry whites, and if they didnt, he would kill them. Mcintosh's cac side was of Scottish descent, hence the kilt worn in many old pics of him. The "Scottish Indian Chiefs" played big a role in not only passively "breeding out" the Natives, but they were also the "Native slave owners" often mentioned, and buffers working for the elite.

https://www.scottishfield.co.uk/cul...e-indian-chiefs-were-scottish-blood-brothers/


*Side note: Chief Pushmataha probably was part cac as well.
 
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Facts, divide and conquer is their strategy :smh:

Not to mention, After Tuscaloosa's death, cacs bred into that native community and renamed it to the Creek Confederacy. Eventually, they appointed a half native/half white chief by the name of William Mcintosh to lead the Confederacy. Mcintosh encouraged all full-blooded natives to marry whites, and if they didnt, he would kill them. Mcintosh's cac side was of Scottish descent, hence the kilt worn in many old pics of him. The "Scottish Indian Chiefs" played big a role in not only passively "breeding out" the Natives, but they were also the "Native slave owners" often mentioned, and buffers working for the elite.

https://www.scottishfield.co.uk/cul...e-indian-chiefs-were-scottish-blood-brothers/


*Side note: Chief Pushmataha probably was part cac as well.
This makes sense to me now, on a personal level. My family was trying to find my GG-Grandmother on my Mom's side. All we knew was that her name was Cindy. And she was supposed to be a full blooded Indian. Well, after research, we found out that her real name was Lucinda, not Cindy... Lucinda McDoogal. On some records they have her as Cindy, and on others they have her as Lucinda.

e-JTeez363.png



I was like, "Where the hell the Scottish name "McDoogal" come from? Now it makes sense, because by her being Indian, she would have been given land from the Dept. of Indian Affairs. White folks were marrying the native women to take the land away. I read that Dougal and it's variations means "Dark Stranger" in Scottish. So McDoogal means Son of the Dark Stranger.

I believe Pushmataha was probably part white as well. I'm researching Choctaw history. And it said that Chief Tecumseh of the Shawnee came down to Choctaw territory to ask them to join an indian confederation against the United States. But Pushmataha resisted because Tecumseh and the Shawnee were aligned with the British. The US and British were fighting against each other.

The Choctaw also fought on the side of the Confederates States in the Civil War. These MoFos stayed on the wrong side of history. They should have joined with the Shawnee and destroyed the U.S. then attacked the British and the French as well.

All of the Indians should have banded together... but hindsight is 20/20, and you pay for what you don't know.
 
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I would have said that too, several months ago. But my research is opening up new doors. I'm seeing things totally different now. There are Black people who are descendants of slaves of the Native people, true (The Freedmen). But, there are also so-called Black people who are a part of Native tribes through bloodlines. Now most of these Black Natives (the term "Black" being a misnomer) are not accepted by the current Native Tribes (who are really European/White).

But, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, believe what you want. I'm just sharing what I'm sharing, and I'm hoping that together we can all get on the same page and hash this out.

As far as your statment, believe your eyes... That's precisely why we're in this mess. When you go to a magic show, they usually say, "You Won't Believe Your Eyes!" Because they already know that our visual senses are what we rely on the most. So they play on that... and they get over.

Those people are of mixed heritage, or race, for lack of a better term. They are not natives. Just as the multitude of white folks claiming to be natives are people of mixed ancestry. All of us are, really.

One of my grandparents was Choctaw. She was not black. At all. There is zero history of enslavement in her family.
She and most of here kids looked/look like the front of a buffalo nickel.

She was contacted more than once by the local Choctaw Band, but never bothered to respond to their invitation to become part of the nation. I don't understand why, but I don't understand why they just didn't set fire to the South decades ago...

The people we call black in the U.S. include people whose ancestry is often actually predominantly something else.

So yes, there are people of both Native and African heritage that we recognize as black.


If you compare what they look like to people from Ghana, for instance, you can see that the African genes are not
always dominant, despite popular belief.

I am not trying to negate what you are saying. I mention this because most black people claim a cousin with straight hair
is 1/4 Cherokee ( I don't know why it's always Cherokee). Most are simply black, and white, due to intermarriage or rape during
the time of slavery.

So, the question is, are these people as entitled to land as true Choctaw?

Since the Choctaw owned slaves, I would say it should be up for grabs to them as well, as a form of reparations if nothing else.

Once I started to investigate that side of my family, I was dismayed to discover I was, in part, descended from slave owners.
But then again, so is someone whose great-great grandmother was raped by an overseer.

When you go to shaking that family tree, be prepared. You might not like what falls out of it.
 
Those people are of mixed heritage, or race, for lack of a better term. They are not natives. Just as the multitude of white folks claiming to be natives are people of mixed ancestry. All of us are, really.

One of my grandparents was Choctaw. She was not black. At all. There is zero history of enslavement in her family.
She and most of here kids looked/look like the front of a buffalo nickel.

She was contacted more than once by the local Choctaw Band, but never bothered to respond to their invitation to become part of the nation. I don't understand why, but I don't understand why they just didn't set fire to the South decades ago...

The people we call black in the U.S. include people whose ancestry is often actually predominantly something else.

So yes, there are people of both Native and African heritage that we recognize as black.


If you compare what they look like to people from Ghana, for instance, you can see that the African genes are not
always dominant, despite popular belief.

I am not trying to negate what you are saying. I mention this because most black people claim a cousin with straight hair
is 1/4 Cherokee ( I don't know why it's always Cherokee). Most are simply black, and white, due to intermarriage or rape during
the time of slavery.

So, the question is, are these people as entitled to land as true Choctaw?

Since the Choctaw owned slaves, I would say it should be up for grabs to them as well, as a form of reparations if nothing else.

Once I started to investigate that side of my family, I was dismayed to discover I was, in part, descended from slave owners.
But then again, so is someone whose great-great grandmother was raped by an overseer.

When you go to shaking that family tree, be prepared. You might not like what falls out of it.
I see what you're saying. My GGG-Grandpa and GGG-Grandma, GG-Grandpa and GG-Grandma, G-Grandpa and G-Grandma, and my Grand Mother were all Choctaw. But here's the rub, if you go back five generations, you'll have something like 32 Grandparent from one generation, 16 from another, 8 from another, 4 from another... and you won't know what all of them were, unless you are really lucky and fortunate. So, I'm just chasing down one direct line currently.

I agree with the shaking of trees too. I already found out that some of the people who we thought were my mother's cousins, were actually my mother's half-brothers and sisters. My Grandfather was hitting my Grandmother's brother's wife. Yeah! We found out that he used to break horses for a white plantation owner named Cook in St Joseph Louisiana. Well, he was breaking more horses!

So, anyway, Bro. I'm just trying to figure some shit out. Like I said, "We're trying to figure out where's the land." As far as the other shit, "It is what it is."
 
Here's an update fam...

We're currently searching for info through my maternal Grandmother's line, who was from Louisiana. We know that they were Choctaw.

Well through my fraternal Grandfather's line, we found out that one of my Grandfather's Grandmothers (my GG-Grandmother) was a full blooded Lipan Apache out of Waco, Texas. Here's the fucked up thing. They said the census takers couldn't pronounce her name, so they gave her the name: Ella Washington. We don't know her Indian name.

So, we're trying to track down the oldest members of our family who are still in Texas. Their last names are Mims. I'm in Cali. I've never met any of them. If anyone knows any Mims' out of Texas near Waco, let me know, and I'd surely like to talk with them. I remember meeting my Grandfather for the first time in the late 1980s. He looked at me and said, "You look just like the Mims's." At the time, I didn't think anything of it.

Ella-Washington.jpg

 
When you go to shaking that family tree, be prepared. You might not like what falls out of it.

Still reading, but this right here.... I'm of Caribbean decent (Jamaica). we managed to trace via my mother side back into the 1700's, where we hit the slave register. We couldn't get past that for obvious reasons, but the stuff that we found out. :eek2:
 
Still reading, but this right here.... I'm of Caribbean decent (Jamaica). we managed to trace via my mother side back into the 1700's, where we hit the slave register. We couldn't get past that for obvious reasons, but the stuff that we found out. :eek2:

What did you find?
 
Here's another update, Fam. I've been searching my genealogy for several months now.

Fam, I highly encourage everyone to this.

I've run into a wall on my Maternal Grandmother's side (The Choctaws). We found out that they had land, but a lot of Indian lands were just confiscated by the white Americans (especially if they found gold). Then the Indians were told they'd get land when they got to Oklahoma. So, we have to find other records through micro-film etc... because this stuff is so old.

But, on my Father's side, I've found out one of my Great-Great Grandmothers was a Lipan Apache (I found out that they called themselves the "Nai'zhan" - Our People). Then continuing on, I found a Great-Great-Great Grandfather named Austin (who was an Indian as well), who went to the penitentiary for stealing cattle and hogs in 1858 in Texas. I read his penitentiary record.

Also, a lot of these people who we call "African" were not African at all. They sent Indians to Jamaica and the West Indies to be "seasoned", which meant breaking them from their so called wild ways. Then they sent them back to the U.S., and made them the slaves. It was illegal for them to even speak their native languages.

If any of your elders ever told you that, "We have Indian in our family"... they were more than likely telling you the truth.

When you look up your records, you'll see this for race: African, Negro, Mullato, or Black. If you see Negro or Mullato, those were Indians. If the person was from Africa, it will say African. They started using Black and Colored later.
 
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This is a video where you have to read about what's going on.
But, it is very enlightening to those who are curious about their Indian ancestry.

 
Greetings BGOL fam, here's another update.

My fam and I came across a "Land Patent" from one of our ancestors. His name was Richards Mims of South Carolina, and he bought some land in Cahabo Alabama, which is now called Old Cahawba Alabama.

I've read that it's a Ghost Town now, and it's preserved by the State as a historical park.

According to the land patent, he purchased 39.98 Acres in 1853.

So, we're still on the case...

Richard.png
 
This makes sense to me now, on a personal level. My family was trying to find my GG-Grandmother on my Mom's side. All we knew was that her name was Cindy. And she was supposed to be a full blooded Indian. Well, after research, we found out that her real name was Lucinda, not Cindy... Lucinda McDoogal. On some records they have her as Cindy, and on others they have her as Lucinda.

e-JTeez363.png



I was like, "Where the hell the Scottish name "McDoogal" come from? Now it makes sense, because by her being Indian, she would have been given land from the Dept. of Indian Affairs. White folks were marrying the native women to take the land away. I read that Dougal and it's variations means "Dark Stranger" in Scottish. So McDoogal means Son of the Dark Stranger.

I believe Pushmataha was probably part white as well. I'm researching Choctaw history. And it said that Chief Tecumseh of the Shawnee came down to Choctaw territory to ask them to join an indian confederation against the United States. But Pushmataha resisted because Tecumseh and the Shawnee were aligned with the British. The US and British were fighting against each other.

The Choctaw also fought on the side of the Confederates States in the Civil War. These MoFos stayed on the wrong side of history. They should have joined with the Shawnee and destroyed the U.S. then attacked the British and the French as well.

All of the Indians should have banded together... but hindsight is 20/20, and you pay for what you don't know.

that was the mind fuck from England. they were

the corporation called USA and created division so

they can profit from stealing land and resources.

great fuckin info bruh!
 
Greetings BGOL Fam, I have another update. A guy reached out to me several days ago, because we shared an ancestor: his Great-Grandmother "Sadie"and my Great-Great-Grandmother "Amanda" were half sisters. They had the same father. His name was Austin Mims out of Freestone, Texas. So we began sharing information.

I found out that a John Hillard Mims (born 1803) was a white slave owner, and he had fathered over twenty something children. My GGG-Grandfather Austin was one of these children. But then, I found out that my GGG-Grandfather Austin's mother was a Comanche Indian. Then he (Austin) married a Black woman from Georgia, and that started a line that I'm a part of. Well, when my GGG-Grandmother died, he married again and that started my relative's line.

He told me that the Mims' have been in Freestone since the 1840s.

I'm going to plan a trip to Texas, so we can break bread and converse face to face. Again fam, I encourage everyone to look up your ancestors.
 
No such think as a black Choctaw by blood. Black people who claim connection the Choctaw nation are not ethnically Native.
They are descendants of the slaves of Natives who are identified as Choctaw just as African Americans are identified as American.

The guy in the video reminds me of the people who claim Black Americans are some sort of Moorish-Asian people.

He is clearly not Native. All you have to do is look. Believe your eyes. They are not lying.
Question: did any so-called black people own slaves? (specifically talking of “white” slaves)

another question: were there any free so-called black people in the south / Confederate states during the chattel slavery era?
 
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