He’d be repeating a lie.
Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors resigns amid controversy
- Thread starter Duece
- Start date
How so?
From the start, Black Lives Matter has been about LGBTQ lives
Two of three Black Lives Matter founders identify as queer.
Because he stated:How so?
From the start, Black Lives Matter has been about LGBTQ lives
Two of three Black Lives Matter founders identify as queer.abcnews.go.com
That's a lie. It is an organization that for almost 8 years has been pushing for justice for the murders of unarmed Black people by the police. As such, it has pushed for police reform and restructuring of the criminal justice system as it applies to the prosecution of murderous cops. We have seen demonstrations and protests across the country and in some instances the world by BLM against the murders of every single high profile case of Black folks murdered by cops: Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rekia Boyd, Laquan McDonald, Sandra Bland, Philando Castile, Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, etc
This has continuously played out on television across the country since 2014. To say we haven't seen what we've seen is a blatant gaslight. We have not seen a plethora of Black Lives Matter celebrating LGBT culture or pushing gay rights.
The article you posted is correct in stating that 2 of the 3 founders of BLM are LGBT. It is also factual that among those victims of police homicide that were advocated for included a handful of trans people. Questions: should BLM only protest on behalf of heterosexual Black victims of police violence to the exclusion of LGBTQ victims? Their sexual preference might not be ours but does that make them any less worthy of being free of state sanctioned killings? Also, since two of BLM's founders are LGBT, meaning they identify as both Black and LGBT, then why wouldn't they stand up against violence against Black LGBT people too?
After all, trans people are 3.7 times more likely to be targeted for police violence than heterosexual people.
Why police often single out trans people for violence
The deaths of Layleen Polanco and Tony McDade highlight how Black trans Americans are treated and criminalized.
www.vox.com
Black folks in the U.S. are disproportionately killed at 3 times the rate of white people, in spite of us comprising only 13% of the population.
Taking that into account, that means that Black trans people would be even more at risk of being victims of police violence than non-trans.
Does BLM donate to LGBT organizations? Yes. Patrice Cullors said so a few months ago on Roland Martin Uncensored. And some of us have seen a list of the organizations they support which includes those.
As to the video to which you linked. Watch that video more carefully. Not a single one of those organizations listed having those demonstrations were BLM and the same goes for the individuals interviewed. They are not the organization itself and they are not chapters of BLM. At best, they are groups inspired by BLM. The video does not stand to scrutiny as proof for X Factor's lie being truth.
“What about Trump” is their only recourse. They tolerate hustles from the Left all day.
the truth cannot be destroyed and the LGBT cannot eviscerate anyone that is not a coward. Lies have zero effect on me and if you think #BLM is for the so-called black community, then you are a liar. They empower the DNC and LGBT. That is it.
Tf going on in here
Yep
Good! Fuck her fat ugly nasty ass!
I thought she already demonstrated and provided proof that she didn't use BLM funds for those purchases....I also thought she only received a tiny fraction of her income from BLM....
none of that matters to ppl who have an agenda
Black Money Matters.
You’re a liar, a coward and an agent of dissension. A walking untruth and a caccoon of the lowest order. While people were out in the streets, meeting and planning with community leaders and the community, raising hell at the police board meetings, exposing corruption, paying the utility bills and rent for victims’ families, posted up at corrupt cops houses at 3 am and in the courts fighting for justice and freedom from police killings…
…Your useless, nonfunctional de facto alt-right unwashed ass was right here typing the psychopathic propaganda of the far right wing whites that love patting coons like you on the head while laughing at your fruitless, pathetic attempts to BE one of them. FOH
“Empower the DNC” ?
I bet you RAN to sign up to troll for free you oreo cookie Q-ANON reject.
What is the update of the 19 families that bough the 100 acres in Ga. to build a black city? If we are not trying to build a nation then we can only be trying to crawl back on the plantation. We live by everything that comes from a white male. In fact your success is based on becoming a carbon copy. They created a reality based on lies and illusions. Either you are programmed or you suffer for not being able to be used by whatever controls them. It is like Jonestown where the desire for separation leaves after more programming starts to win.Collect the donated money, and spend it for Black issues, immediately. It's not that difficult to be proactive with 90 million.
She made her money, and brought property for her family. That is what you are supposed to do. It's unfortunate that this has turned into angst against a Black personal gaining financial freedom, which should be the model for all of us.
They let republican attack propaganda win again
I just told you why
I think that is misleading.
It suggest that they're being targeted for being trans when, in all likelihood, police target us for being Black. Not trans.
That's what that stat was designed to do in my opinion: Conflate two different things as fact with a survey conducted by an obviously biased LGBTQ group. (Anti-Violence Project)
Does anything we've seen in this country over the last few decades substantiate that claim or are they surveying themselves and rocking with it as truth?
If you can, please post something from a neutral source to back that claim. I'm calling bullshit for now, but will allow myself to be convinced with reputable sources.
Gaaaaaaaaaat DAMNYou’re a liar, a coward and an agent of dissension. A walking untruth and a caccoon of the lowest order. While people were out in the streets, meeting and planning with community leaders and the community, raising hell at the police board meetings, exposing corruption, paying the utility bills and rent for victims’ families, posted up at corrupt cops houses at 3 am and in the courts fighting for justice and freedom from police killings…
…Your useless, nonfunctional de facto alt-right unwashed ass was right here typing the psychopathic propaganda of the far right wing whites that love patting coons like you on the head while laughing at your fruitless, pathetic attempts to BE one of them. FOH
“Empower the DNC” ?
Perhaps you are misunderstanding. Trans people being 3.7% more likely to be targeted for police violence is one statistic. It is talking trans people as a whole not Black trans people.
The statistic regarding police killing Black people (3 times as much as whites) didn't come from the AVP. It is a separate stat that I got from a different source. I shared a low number on that one that comes from https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/
A separate Harvard study has Black people 6 times more likely to be killed by cops.
Mapping fatal police violence across U.S. metropolitan areas: Overall rates and racial/ethnic inequities, 2013-2017
Background & methods Recent social movements have highlighted fatal police violence as an enduring public health problem in the United States. To solve it, the public requires basic information, such as understanding where rates of fatal police violence are particularly high, and for which...
In any case, I did the simple math that if trans people (across races) are being targeted by police violence at 3.7 times the rate of straight people, then to be trans and Black would put a person at higher risk since they belong to two groups disproportionately targeted by cops.
Why would the fact that the AVP is a group focusing on LGBTQ matters make its data unreliable in your eyes? If you find additional stats and studies that you deem in your own estimation to be more reliable on police violence against trans people, feel free to share it here. I'll keep an eye out myself as well.
The very report you cited had two messages: Trans are targeted by police more that straight. And Black trans were targeted more than white straight people. You can't see the intended skewing going on there? A "report" that doesn't even cite its sources, methods or anything? Fuck your lying ass eyes. Just believe it because we say so?
I never quoted you regarding that part. If anything, it reinforces my point about Black people being the target of police violence.The statistic regarding police killing Black people (3 times as much as whites) didn't come from the AVP. It is a separate stat that I got from a different source. I shared a low number on that one that comes from https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/
A separate Harvard study has Black people 6 times more likely to be killed by cops.
Mapping fatal police violence across U.S. metropolitan areas: Overall rates and racial/ethnic inequities, 2013-2017
Background & methods Recent social movements have highlighted fatal police violence as an enduring public health problem in the United States. To solve it, the public requires basic information, such as understanding where rates of fatal police violence are particularly high, and for which...journals.plos.org
One, you would have to believe that stat.
Two, you would have to believe that Black trans people are being targeted for being trans. I do not. They are targeted for being Black.
They literally have every incentive to say they are targeted more than anyone else. They are doing the leap-frogging of Black people that got them their newfound power in the first place. NOBODY heard a trans person place their Blackness first until the protest last summer. (Black Trans Lives Matter).
It was going down during pride month and you know gotdamn well they was not going to let that happen. LGBTQ puts forth every effort they can to usurp Black progress. Even if it means using the trans people with "dual passports". This organization's report is no different in my opinion.
*This was my quote on June 2, 2020.....*
^^^See? But I digress.
They don't cite a single source. Yet, you and I are to take them at their word (and nothing else) that cops across amerikkka are doing u turns for them and beating/killing them more than straight Black men because they're trans? Does that even resemble reality? I honestly can not say it does.
And the reason we are now approaching circular debate is because there likely isn't anything to substantiate that 3.7 claim in the first place.
Because as powerful as a group that they are, I find it odd that we would have to "keep our eyes out" for such an important stat from a reputable, neutral organization.
Stay safe fam.
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Your issue seems to be driven by a disconnect that refuses to believe that trans people would be particularly targeted for violence from police. To me that makes zero sense. LGBTQ is a demographic that is disliked by a LOT of people. Hell, you can see some proof of that right here. A person will get banned for posting pictures of trannies. I'm all for banning people on BGOL for doing that. I don't want to see that shit either. The point still stands that they are not well liked by a large segment of the country as a whole. Latino people aren't either and neither are Black people. Native Americans, Black folks and Latino folks and poor folks are disproportionately targeted by pigs. Why? Because cops are bigots with guns and badges and because these are among the most vulnerable people! We know as a fact that the FBI determined white nationalist groups have infiltrated police departments across America en mass. So why in the hell do you think their bigotry would magically skip over trans folk, whom a large portion of America already despises and thinks are abnormal?
Here in Chicago in the hood, even without a police shooting or arrest, cops are way more disrespectful to Black folks in poor neighborhoods on the regular than they are in lower middle class and up neighborhoods. I'm sure that's the case across the U.S. Many cops are predators that have been coddled and protected by the justice system, police unions and their own higher ups since there have been police.
The parts in bold are fair points. I know they're not making up the discrimination. That's common knowledge that people who are visibly LGBTQ get targeted for abuse. But I too wanted to see the methodology used to come to that figure of 3.7. My answer to your reply would be that's far from the only source making this claim. There are others that come to a similar conclusion where they do disclose their sources and methodologies.
Here's one:
Also you might do well to read up on even the surface of the history of LGBTQ in the country to learn that 1. discrimination against LGBTQ people by cops has been a thing for a long while and 2. That the Stonewall riots of 1969 was all about Latinos and Black LGBTQ folks standing up against the unfair treatment, discrimination and the brutality they'd been experiencing at the hands of police.
No, you should not Just like I shouldn't just take you at yours. You have offered no evidence of anything you're saying beyond your own opinion.
No I don't think we should just take THEIR word alone. Granted, they didn't give the sources, methodology etc to substantiate that figure in the link I shared in my original post. However, that doesn't mean it was made up. It also doesn't mean it wasn't. What it means is that they should have provided how they got to that figure. We are in agreement on that point. The question is are there other outside studies with more transparency that would corroborate something similar to that figure. My second question is Did YOU seek out additional sources? At the end of my last message I suggested that we both do exactly that and come back to the table. I did do that for only 5 minutes and found a number of things. One of them I linked to above.
You said, "LGBTQ puts forth every effort to usurp Black progress" I want to respond to that. But I need you to be more specific so that I know exactly what you are referring to before I give a reply.
As indicated earlier, history proves incorrect your statement in italics.
"Neutrality" in your eyes meaning that it has to come from non-LGBTQ in order for data to be legit? Ok, so then by that logic, if a study is done on Black people experiencing discrimination, it could only be "neutral" and legit if it comes from Non-Blacks? No. Some of the most important studies about Black folks came from Black folks. I refuse to believe LGBTQ are consciously on some kinda gay takeover shit. They appear to want the way that they are be normalized and not seen and treated as freakish and abhorrent and that's about it.
That said, let me pause for a moment to say what I'm against. I am not for the merging of the gay liberation movement with the Black liberation movement on a number of fronts. I don't want to convolute or dilute our movement. Most Black folks, self included are somewhat of religious conservatives who believe the Letter of the Law when it comes to same sex unions. I am not therefore in favor of my participating in anything that normalizes what I see as deviant behavior. Let me be clear. I don't hate or dislike people who are that way. I'm not in favor of the lifestyles on faith grounds just as I feel a lifestyle of adultery is wrong. Therefore I will never participate in any demonstrations designed to promote the overall homogenization of alternative lifestyles into being on par with heterosexual marriages, for example.
I am also against bullying, abuse and murder of anyone, particularly Black folks, especially at the hands of cops. To the extent that a Black LGBTQ person is murdered by cops, I will protest their killing and seek justice on their behalf because that's my Sister or Brother regardless of orientation.
Whatever my moral beliefs, it is clear that Black women will encounter situations of discrimination from the dominant society on the basis of being Black and women. Just as we Brothas experience unique discrimination from the same for being Black and being men. Just as the combination being Black and being poor and living in a poor neighborhood makes you more susceptible to being a victim of police on some level. The same applies to folks who are visibly LGBTQ and who happen to be Black on top of that.
Let's keep the dialogue going. More sources are forthcoming on my part.
Be well, Brother.
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They should. It's called nonprofit for a reason. Her caking off of donations is just as bad as a mega church pastor like creflo dollar. If she wasn't called out for this she prolly would've bought a private jet next.She "probably" didn't do anything illegal because all non-profit info/money is public.
If they were pulling in big donations, then some of that money can be used to pay salaries, which is understandable. I guess folk thinks people that run nonprofits should live modestly?
Let me start at the good part first.
You once again post a LGBTQ organization as a source for information. Only this time you point out that they cite sources.
But here's the rub.
Not ONE of their sources speaks a WORD of what you and I are ACTUALLY discussing.
Instead, the references are all in regard to:
•Census
•suicide
•population
•bullying
•unemployment
•homelessness
•housing
•discrimination
•HIV infection rates
Not a single word or source corroborating or even mentioning this 3.7 number that was the subject or our discussion. Not one.
Now, in regard to the rest of the somewhat Gish Gallop reply, I can't abide you assuming disconnect from opinion and reality.
Re-read my posts. I make sure to use the phrase "in my opinion" where I feel applicable.
No one believes the alphabet gang isn't discriminated against. But that was never the argument and I ask that you not inject it as if it were.
The argument was that they are disproportionately targeted more than straight Black men by police. I challenged that stat by saying there was no information that supported it other than them just saying it.
Yes, I looked for a neutral source before asking you to provide one.
If anything, you made the claim. And since it's lacking any researchable facts, the onus should be on you to prove it.
When studies are done regarding discrimination against Black people published by Black sites, 9 times out of 10 there are verifiable sources to double check that have nothing to do with the site itself. There's a reason we're able to refute cac talking points with facts: We're able to point to neutral sources as fact.
Like I said, this is circular af at this point. I've said what meant and don't have much else to add without any new information pertinent to the actual root of our debate being added by you.
Hit me with those sources bro.
FTB
I was going to ask this same question. home girl has her own money. If she wants to buy 4 houses so what? that was her money, not BLM's donations.
now if it comes out she was taking the donations and doing this, yeah we should all cry her down. but what I see right now is people just reacting to headlines.
The most high is revealing the deception but a lot of you like the deception. Y'all are a wild bunch. She's a marxist, which is not far from communism and luciferianism. She practices paganism, and gets the crowd to participate in her spells. They are not for the nuclear family. They are not for the straight black man. They think a society run by women and the deviants of society is what the world needs.
The name is disingenuous. Black Lesbians Matter is more appropriate.
ziiiing!You’re a liar, a coward and an agent of dissension. A walking untruth and a caccoon of the lowest order. While people were out in the streets, meeting and planning with community leaders and the community, raising hell at the police board meetings, exposing corruption, paying the utility bills and rent for victims’ families, posted up at corrupt cops houses at 3 am and in the courts fighting for justice and freedom from police killings…
…Your useless, nonfunctional de facto alt-right unwashed ass was right here typing the psychopathic propaganda of the far right wing whites that love patting coons like you on the head while laughing at your fruitless, pathetic attempts to BE one of them. FOH
“Empower the DNC” ?
i see the same rightwing talking points from the "im non-racist" cacs the same blah blah BLM donations supports leftwing dnc ! i keep asking who they supposed to support to help them fight for justice & the police brutality fights ? repubs ? these white apologists who worship at the feet of WS are foolishly comical
Let ME start at the good part first. You said:
I did.
In the previous posts you said:
"Two, you would have to believe that Black trans people are being targeted for being trans. I do not. They are targeted for being Black."
and
"They literally have every incentive to say they are targeted more than anyone else. They are doing the leap-frogging of Black people that got them their newfound power in the first place. NOBODY heard a trans person place their Blackness first until the protest last summer. (Black Trans Lives Matter)."
You did say, "I think" or "I believe", true. But though I'm interested in what you personally believe, I'm even more interested in what data outside of your personal opinion indicates. I challenged both of your above bolded statements. We both know that Black folks get targeted by police for being Black. However you are speaking as if people can only be targeted for one thing at a time. Neither of us are inside the minds of the cops or people who commit violence against LGBTQ. Neither of us are experts on the subject of LGBTQ and trans people being targeted for violence. Therefore since we are discussing the topic, it might be worth us both looking at the data on it, which for the purpose of education, I'm willing to do.
I gave you a list of types of individuals: Black men, Black women, Black poor and Latino poor to illustrate that are instances in which groups are uniquely targeted for discrimination because of the combinations of those things that they are. I will add to the list Black elderly folks.
It is factual that all the above groups can simultaneously experience discrimination because of both of those things that they are. But you seem to believe that when trans Black people are killed or brutalized by police that the trans part has nothing to do with it- that they cannot be discriminated against for both things at the same time. If that is your position and you stick to it, I can't say more than I already have.
Your second bolded statement wasn't spoken as an opinion but as a declaration of fact. I challenged it by giving you a historical reference from 50 years ago, that indeed this exact subject was highly publicized and that it's not a recent trendy thing that just popped up last summer. Many articles, documentaries, eyewitness accounts and a number of movies have been made about it. If anything, last summer's explosion of BLM energized other marginalized groups to seek justice for their own whom they know have been killed, brutalized or unfairly treated by police.
Regarding the 3.7 stat, I said to you in my first reply to you:
I didn't say it because I was trying to trap you. I actually wanted to see if you, like I upon my re-examining the Vox link and the link connected to the 3.7 figure, noticed that there was no mention as to specifically how they came about those numbers. In my most recent message to you, I acknowledged the lack of detailed background information provided for the roadmap to that 3.7 claim, and acknowledged that it may or may not be accurate. For sure, that's enough to poke holes in it. Therefore I too reject it as a definitive source.respiration said:
That's why immediately after asking you that question, I suggested that WE BOTH seek out information on the subject. The goals being (1).To find out more info on where that figure came about from and (2.) To see if we could find out more info on what's happening with the trans demographic and their encounters with law enforcement.
I'm always less interested in debate than I am in discussing subjects, hearing other viewpoints and hopefully mutually learning, which I will reiterate at the end of this message. That applies to this dialogue too.
You said:
What I try to do when I disagree with a claim someone makes here, is provide what I feel is reliable information that they can visit and click on. You are saying the onus is on me. Ok. I provided further information (which you rejected). I also indicated that more info was to come. Yet, you have not provided any outside information either in agreement or to the contrary to examine. It's all been your viewpoint only. The only person outside this immediate dialogue that you quoted was yourself. Interesting viewpoints to be sure, but you are still welcome to provide your own outside info.
So let's dig into the topic of researchable facts further.
First stop:
UCR Publications | Federal Bureau of Investigation
The UCR Program publishes annual reports for each of its four data collections and a preliminary semiannual report of summary data each winter, as well as special compilations on cargo theft, human trafficking, and NIBRS topical studies.
www.fbi.gov
An annual publication since 1972, the LEOKA report provides data on law enforcement officers who were feloniously killed, accidentally killed, and assaulted in the line of duty. This report includes summaries of incidents in which officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty. Similar summaries are included for select incidents in which victim officers were assaulted and injured with firearms or knives/other cutting instruments."
So then, since 1972 the Feds have provided the above data on police officers killed and assaulted in the line of duty.
Second stop:
Latest Hate Crime Statistics Report Released | Federal Bureau of Investigation
Latest report shows slight decrease in reported incidents, includes new data.
www.fbi.gov
We see stated in this December 8, 2014 article:
"Hate Crime Statistics, 2013—the first UCR publication to contain data collected under the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crime Prevention Act of 2009—has a few changes from previous reports. First, biases against gender (male or female) and gender identity (transgender and gender nonconformity) have been added to the list of bias categories."
So then whereas, the Feds have kept detailed data on killings and assault against police officers for 49 years. They've only been compiling information on trans folks since 2013.
Third stop:
This article points out some of the difficulties in getting accurate data about hate crimes against transgender people
Anti-transgender hate crimes soared 20 percent in 2019
Less than 15 percent of law enforcement departments nationwide report hate crime data to the FBI, stymying efforts to get an accurate picture of the crisis.
www.nbcnews.com
"Less than 15 percent of law enforcement departments nationwide report hate crime data to the FBI, stymying efforts to get an accurate picture of the crisis."
In 2016, I encountered a cracka on FB who erroneously claimed that unarmed Black folks did not get disproportionately killed by police and that the FBI had said it. I linked him to a video interview with then FBI director Robert Mueller stating similar information to the above quote- or in other words that very few law enforcement departments nationwide report detailed data on police killing Black folks.
This could be one impediment to getting accurate numbers about trans people and it goes a long way to explaining why it then falls to advocate organizations for trans and LGBTQ advocate groups to do their own research and study and do their own surveys of members of their demographics and publish the results. Law enforcement simply is not cooperating with giving up info on their officers mistreatment of them or most other discriminated against groups.
You said
Actually it speaks several words about what we're discussing which is the issue of trans people encountering disproportionate amounts of police violence. I posted the article for you to see the table titled: "Experiences of Discrimination and Violence in Public Accommodations".
Within that table, relating to police officers: 20% said they were denied equal treatment, 29% said they were harassed or disrespected and 6% physically assaulted. But also to see what I saw in terms of astronomical rates of poverty and attempted suicide. I also wanted you to see another table entitled "Harassment and Assault by Police Due to Bias by Race" that by race compares incidents of discrimination and assault against trans folks by police.
My statement about Black people reporting on our own looks back further than the internet. It looks to a time when the dominant society had a confirmed history of not researching with any thoroughness and not accurately reporting on any precolonial African history and not reporting on what was current Africa at all for that matter and who regularly taught eugenics. They did not care to and were not providing accurate information about us. We took those reins ourselves and began that process.
It appears to me that the trans community, a small subgroup of the larger LGBTQ community might be in that same place today that our people were close to 3/4 of a century ago.
Summary:
I came into this thread to express my surprise, delight and appreciation for Patrice Cullors' big juicy tittays, My further participation in this thread was to dispel the lie that the fight for Black folks lives that BLM has represented for 8 years was all along only a front to advance an LGBTQ agenda. I rolled with one of the larger chapters and know that not to be true. Rather, I know firsthand many of the things that BLM has been doing to address directly the issues of lack of prosecution of murdering police, police reform and redress for victims. Since the inception of the group, it has expanded out in a number of areas. One of those areas is addressing discrimination in police encounters with various LGBTQ groups. The group also addresses discrimination by law enforcement against disabled, Native Americans and Latinos. Considering that two of the three founders are LGBTQ women, it did not surprise me that they would look at police discrimination, brutality and murder against Black people who fit within that categorization. It seems logical that they would advocate on their behalf as well as heterosexual Black folks. BLM still remains firmly focused on tragic victims of police and extra-judicial violence against like George Floyd, Briona Taylor, whether high profile or not and remains firmly focused on police reform.
I'm glad that you did research to find that there was a scarcity of information from the greater society on the brutalization and murder of transgender people. That allowed me to find that out too and opened the doors us being able to dialogue on reasons for why that might be.
I hate debate. Always have. It's oneupmanship. That's not my desire with my fellow Black folk who are committed to freedom from oppression. We can disagree and that can spark a discussion. Great. However, within that dialogue I don't wish to bury good-hearted people and I'm not committed to pissing further than someone else. I dislike the dynamic of another not being able to admit when my point superceded theirs or they were simply proven wrong about something. Admissions like that show courage and maturity. There's no ego here. I'll admit when I was in error, and give you props for catching it. Also, it is not my desire to convert you to my religion, so to speak. It is my desire to hear you and to be heard- always with respect. I'm all about hearing, the possibility of mutual learning and hopefully finding common ground.
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She "probably" didn't do anything illegal because all non-profit info/money is public.
If they were pulling in big donations, then some of that money can be used to pay salaries, which is understandable. I guess folk thinks people that run nonprofits should live modestly?
^^^^
Yup
That's always the conflict
And I think particularly with black folk historically seeing rich religious leaders of color or rich "good" white folk doing not for profit work in their community
there is a long tradition of mistrust
Yet those same people don't hold corporations and politicians who do far worse more overtly to the same scrutiny or standards.
I forgive all 3 of them.
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