Will the Lakers make the Playoffs???

[cranrab]

Re: Will the fakers make the Playoffs?

for LS.

this is how things SHOULD HAVE GONE DOWN (2002 NBA FINALS)

game 1 - WIN

tobe: 7-16
shaq: 12-20

game 2 - WIN

tobe: 9-15
shaq: 14-23

game 3 - WIN

tobe: 14-23
shaq: 12-19

game 4 - WIN

tobe: 7-16
shaq: 12-20

simple plan. let the O run through shaquille o'neal. let shaquille o'neal distribute the rock. restrict tobe's FGAs to a reasonable number, limit his opportunities so that his poor decision making and mistakes with the ball can be minimized, and IT'S ALL GOOD.

but EGO is a bitch, and tobe put self before team in 2003 and 2004 in failed efforts to prove the fakers could win with him as the focal point. TOO BAD for his teammates, fakers fans, and good basketball.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

They are catching on to Kobe Cran, eewwll, x.........


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17526814/


(pg 2)




So right now Kobe Bryant is looking at playing out the remainder of a disappointing regular season with no prospect of reinforcements on the horizon, and in a situation in which he’ll have to shoulder an inordinate amount of the burden.

And remember, he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. The Lakers will stumble and he’ll be ripped for either trying to do to much, or not rescuing the organization single-handedly.

For Kobe Bryant, the future is bleak.



Even that wouldn’t be so horrible except for the fact that Bryant can hear the clock ticking. He’s been in charge of the Lakers now for almost three seasons, ever since Jerry Buss placed all his chips on Bryant when he kicked Shaquille O’Neal out of town. When Shaq and the Heat won the NBA championship last spring, it caused even more steam to come out of Kobe’s ears.

Even if all goes well in 2007-08, there’s no indication the Lakers can somehow catapult themselves into the Western Conference elite. They’re a promising team with some gifted young players who need seasoning, and even then there are no guarantees. Besides the top three, there are other teams in the conference making more impressive strides toward the ultimate goal, especially Utah and Houston.

Bryant will be 29 in August. That’s still relatively young. But he has almost 11 NBA seasons worth of wear and tear on his body. And many of those were LONG seasons that included extended playoff runs.

He has a window, it’s slowly closing, and he knows it. He may never win another NBA championship. He may have to spend eternity with the knowledge that the three rings he has came with the assistance of others, especially Shaq. He’ll probably have to swallow the fact that he wasn’t able to live up to the Michael Jordan comparisons because he wasn’t able to be The Man and lead his team to a title.

Perhaps the question for faux Freuds to pose isn’t about why Kobe Bryant has smacked two opponents in the face within a short span of time, but rather why he hasn’t smacked more of them.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

That comment by Garnet is hilarious. Because I made the point a couple of years ago when the Lakers lost 4 straight to the Pistons to lose in the Finals. Shaq was DOMINATING the Pistons. I mean literally..we couldnt do ANYTHING with Shaq... he was making Ben Wallace look his bitch..fade aways, drop steps and up, posterizing dunks. He was making the perfect passes when double and triple teams came. When the offense went through Shaq is always most tough to watch. I thought we would get swept. Then Larry Brown instituted a Brilliant strategy that only a certain type of player would fall for.

HE constructed the defensive set to allow Kobe to get his hands on the ball and take shots. They would literally step back just to get him to take shots. The guards would open up lanes for him to drive...even if they were easy buckets because they knew he would fall for the bait. Kobe went on to pull of a hijacking that would make Bin Laden himself shed a tear from pride.

Then what did Kobe go on to do for the rest of the series...the most embarrassing performance I have ever seen in the history of team sports. He COMPLETELY sabotaged the Laker offense. He did this so effectively and completely, that even as a Piston fun I was pissed to see ONE player deny his entire team out of pure selfishness. That series would be the last that Shaq would ever play in a Laker uniform. The Lakers then went on to get SWEPT on the next 4 games. To this day, I do not understand why Shaq did not grab him by the fucking throat and put him in check to save the series.

I swear I was watching that series in Detroit, even as a Pistons fan, and Kobe had me FURIOUS. I just found it hard to believe that a player would do something like that. From that point on, I began to really look at his game and question his basketball IQ.

Does anyone remember that Series

Remember it?

We were going back and forth on the Matrix topic back then.....(Ann Rand)

I predicted the Lakers would win because they have better stars. Then I saw Tobe singlehandedly fuck up a Dynasty......

That was the most selfish shit I have ever witnessed by a player in any sport in any championship series......

Not to take anything away from Detroit....they played great D and unselfish bball.............However I will call that series a 5 game sweep as long as I live....that was embarrasing for the Lakers as a Franchise and for the NBA in general.......To see one immature punk phony throw away a season of hard work was just the lowest of the low............

In my opinion....he did that to make a case for getting rid of Phil and Shaq.............If they won there was no way he could have pulled that power move...................Losing that series was a masterful power play.......

With a price

 

[Spectrum]

Remember it?

We were going back and forth on the Matrix topic back then.....(Ann Rand)

I predicted the Lakers would win because they have better stars. Then I saw Tobe singlehandedly fuck up a Dynasty......

That was the most selfish shit I have ever witnessed by a player in any sport in any championship series......

Not to take anything away from Detroit....they played great D and unselfish bball.............However I will call that series a 5 game sweep as long as I live....that was embarrasing for the Lakers as a Franchise and for the NBA in general.......To see one immature punk phony throw away a season of hard work was just the lowest of the low............

In my opinion....he did that to make a case for getting rid of Phil and Shaq.............If they won there was no way he could have pulled that power move...................Losing that series was a masterful power play.......

With a price

Word. I cant take away anything from that Pistons team either..especially being a fan of the Pistons and from Detroit. However, I keep my self grounded in reality. From the way Shaq was dominated us, if the ball continued to go through Shaq, the Pistons win 1 maybe 2 games.

It was almost like Kobe was tired of Shaq being the MVP of the Finals..and pretty much said..either the Lakers win on my back or we lose the Pistons: period. It takes a whole lot to actually piss off the fans of the other team when you are helping him. But everyone at my crib watching the game was like Kobe cant be serious

 

[Spectrum]

They are catching on to Kobe Cran, eewwll, x.........


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17526814/

Interesting article. I have to admit.. I am a late convert. I actually got into an argument on the main board with cranrab about Kobe a couple of years ago..maybe 2 or 3 years ago. He might even remember. I was of the opinion that although Kobe was not not on the Jordan level that people were making him out to be, he was still a great player and amongst the elite and that he still had time to mature to become the apex player in the league. I thought Cran was being overly critical and we jabbed back in forth. I really thought Cran was delusional because he was so emphatic with his position. Until I witnessed the some of 2004 NBA Finals and then began to watch him game more closely. Then I realized that Kobe has almost 0 basketball IQ and a super-inflated ego and considering that, he would never mature. He still has hasnt. Then I realized how detrimental he is to a TEAM and that outways anything positive he might bring to the table. And as much as he is criticized for being a chucker, I do not think I have ever seen a mainstream media article that criticizes him for his suspect team defense. He continues to get awarded Defensive Team honors. Yall called it early.. I am late on the bandwagon.

 

[xfactor]

i know xfactor only created this thread as a jab at the armenian's post about the heat and shaquille o'neal, but if you take a look at the current standings, it would seem reasonable to say that the fakers have the 6th seed pretty well locked up.

You must be confusing me with him. Unlike O'Neal (who led his team to the playoffs without an all-star guard) Wobe has never been to the the playoffs without a more talented player leading the way.

And I was wondering, with their top players out, they could possibly tank the rest of the season like they did in 2004-2005.

**EDIT** Isnt Coach Jackson's 3 year deal up at the end of the year. Any chance of him re-signing?

 

[xfactor]

It was almost like Kobe was tired of Shaq being the MVP of the Finals..and pretty much said..either the Lakers win on my back or we lose the Pistons: period.

That's the first thing I said when I remember him taking all of those shots in Game 1 of the Finals that year. He's too dumb a player to realize there are other ways of helping your team win than score. And that's the only thing he knows how to do after 11 years in the league.

He's still stuck in highschool mode. Back then when you'd go against teams and know you were good enough to beat some of them by yourself.

That style of play doesnt work in NCAA Division 1, let alone the NBA. Im sure he would've been a completely different player if he went to college.

 

[xfactor]

They are catching on to Kobe Cran, eewwll, x.........


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17526814/


(pg 2)




So right now Kobe Bryant is looking at playing out the remainder of a disappointing regular season with no prospect of reinforcements on the horizon, and in a situation in which he’ll have to shoulder an inordinate amount of the burden.

And remember, he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. The Lakers will stumble and he’ll be ripped for either trying to do to much, or not rescuing the organization single-handedly.

For Kobe Bryant, the future is bleak.



Even that wouldn’t be so horrible except for the fact that Bryant can hear the clock ticking. He’s been in charge of the Lakers now for almost three seasons, ever since Jerry Buss placed all his chips on Bryant when he kicked Shaquille O’Neal out of town. When Shaq and the Heat won the NBA championship last spring, it caused even more steam to come out of Kobe’s ears.

Even if all goes well in 2007-08, there’s no indication the Lakers can somehow catapult themselves into the Western Conference elite. They’re a promising team with some gifted young players who need seasoning, and even then there are no guarantees. Besides the top three, there are other teams in the conference making more impressive strides toward the ultimate goal, especially Utah and Houston.

Bryant will be 29 in August. That’s still relatively young. But he has almost 11 NBA seasons worth of wear and tear on his body. And many of those were LONG seasons that included extended playoff runs.

He has a window, it’s slowly closing, and he knows it. He may never win another NBA championship. He may have to spend eternity with the knowledge that the three rings he has came with the assistance of others, especially Shaq. He’ll probably have to swallow the fact that he wasn’t able to live up to the Michael Jordan comparisons because he wasn’t able to be The Man and lead his team to a title.

Perhaps the question for faux Freuds to pose isn’t about why Kobe Bryant has smacked two opponents in the face within a short span of time, but rather why he hasn’t smacked more of them.

Didnt read the article yet as Im sure its more of the same old BS. Like I said last year when I made my list of top 5 SGs in the league, Wobe wasnt included and still isnt top 5 in my opinion and that is why I dont understand why people (sports writers) continue to say he is the most talented player in the league when he's not even the most talented player on his own team.

My problem with the whole "Wobe phenomenon" has always been the comparison to Jordan because if you look deeply into it, there really is nothing to merit a comparison other than they could both score. Once these sportswriters admit that Bryant was never good enough to be the next Jordan and is nothing more than a one dimensional scorer that owes everything to O'Neal then I'd have nothing else to say.

 

[xfactor]

here's a second quote from KG last night that echoes the quote you posted:

"We knew he was going to go for the shots."

Great quote by the Ticket. What's funny about this is that if you tell a Wobe supporter that teams invite him to take FGAs because of his poor shot selection, they'd think you were crazy but the reality of it is that it is true. I dont think I've seen a "marquee player" like this take FGA after FGA like he was the only person on the floor, completely disregarding his teammates time and time again.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Interesting article. I have to admit.. I am a late convert. I actually got into an argument on the main board with cranrab about Kobe a couple of years ago..maybe 2 or 3 years ago. He might even remember. I was of the opinion that although Kobe was not not on the Jordan level that people were making him out to be, he was still a great player and amongst the elite and that he still had time to mature to become the apex player in the league. I thought Cran was being overly critical and we jabbed back in forth. I really thought Cran was delusional because he was so emphatic with his position. Until I witnessed the some of 2004 NBA Finals and then began to watch him game more closely. Then I realized that Kobe has almost 0 basketball IQ and a super-inflated ego and considering that, he would never mature. He still has hasnt. Then I realized how detrimental he is to a TEAM and that outways anything positive he might bring to the table. And as much as he is criticized for being a chucker, I do not think I have ever seen a mainstream media article that criticizes him for his suspect team defense. He continues to get awarded Defensive Team honors. Yall called it early.. I am late on the bandwagon.

I was on the fence also.....

Then I would see Cran's Kobe posts and just straight up asked "Why do you hate Kobe?".......His answer was calm and well stated......

From there the whole trade thing went down. Kobe's denials clearly showed me he was a fraud.

I still didn't completly turn because I thought with Caron and Lamar, the Lake Show was legit. I didn't think the dropoff would be so tremendous.

If you're on the bandwagon......make room for me......Cran is a good driver

 

[cranrab]

Re: Will the fakers make the Playoffs???

since we got in the time machine and pulled up game stats from the NBA FINALS and WCF, i had to go on ahead and pull out one of my personal all time favorites.

this line is from the 2004 all star game

shaq: GAME HIGH 24 points, 12-19 FGAs, 11 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks in 24 minutes

tobe: 9-12 FGAs, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 5 steals, GAME HIGH 6 TOs in 36 minutes

now the reason why this meaningless all star game became significant is because tobe later used it as proof that HE was the reason why shaquille o'neal won the all star game MVP that year.



mind you, kevin garnett, tim duncan and sam cassell EACH had more assists than tobe, but tobe is sitting there claiming HE won shaquille o'neal the all star MVP.



ray allen and steve francis both had the SAME number of assists as tobe, but tobe said HE was responsible for getting shaquille o'neal that trophy.

talk about delusional...

 

[Spectrum]

If you're on the bandwagon......make room for me......Cran is a good driver

Cranrab: Join me and together we will expose the world to the myth of Wobe Bryant

 

[TimRock]

I dont think i can jump on that wagon. I have been a Laker fan for 10 years now. Although the things that Cran points out, i do notice alot. For instance, in the wolves game, Ricky's assits to Blunt for the 3's, i saw Kobe get beat on those plays. I saw quite a few mistakes made that game by kobe, as well as other lakers.

I never once said kobe was the greatest, close to jordan, an mvp, a leader, team player, or that he truley earned any of his awards. I don't think he is any of those things. But the one thing that i have to disagree with, and you guys can call me names, point out facts, clown me, or whatever, but i do not agree that he rode Shaq to the 3 rings. I just don't feel that way. I feel they both played great during those runs and they both should get equal value. Maybe Shaq a little more, because he is basically unstoppable.

But like i said, i can't jump on the wagon, because i'm a fan. yeah i get mad and yell at the tv when he does something i dont agree with. I tell everyone "i aint messing with this dude no more". I'm not gonna jump on someone else's bandwagon. I will respect the player but I wont become a fan. Thats just me.

Besides, if i jumped on the CranWagon, who would be left to go back and forth with?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Will the fakers make the Playoffs???

since we got in the time machine and pulled up game stats from the NBA FINALS and WCF, i had to go on ahead and pull out one of my personal all time favorites.

this line is from the 2004 all star game

shaq: GAME HIGH 24 points, 12-19 FGAs, 11 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks in 24 minutes

tobe: 9-12 FGAs, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 5 steals, GAME HIGH 6 TOs in 36 minutes

now the reason why this meaningless all star game became significant is because tobe later used it as proof that HE was the reason why shaquille o'neal won the all star game MVP that year.



mind you, kevin garnett, tim duncan and sam cassell EACH had more assists than tobe, but tobe is sitting there claiming HE won shaquille o'neal the all star MVP.



ray allen and steve francis both had the SAME number of assists as tobe, but tobe said HE was responsible for getting shaquille o'neal that trophy.

talk about delusional...

When did he say this stupid shit??!?!?!?!

Not suprised.......I thought 2004 was the year he had that press fight with Shaq

 

[Spectrum]

.

Besides, if i jumped on the CranWagon, who would be left to go back and forth with?

Yeah man..that would be disastrous to the activity on this board

 

[cranrab]

Re: Will the fakers make the Playoffs???

When did he say this stupid shit?

just one of the many gems that can be found in the book coach jackson wrote after the 2004 season...

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I dont think i can jump on that wagon. I have been a Laker fan for 10 years now. Although the things that Cran points out, i do notice alot. For instance, in the wolves game, Ricky's assits to Blunt for the 3's, i saw Kobe get beat on those plays. I saw quite a few mistakes made that game by kobe, as well as other lakers.

I never once said kobe was the greatest, close to jordan, an mvp, a leader, team player, or that he truley earned any of his awards. I don't think he is any of those things. But the one thing that i have to disagree with, and you guys can call me names, point out facts, clown me, or whatever, but i do not agree that he rode Shaq to the 3 rings. I just don't feel that way. I feel they both played great during those runs and they both should get equal value. Maybe Shaq a little more, because he is basically unstoppable.

But like i said, i can't jump on the wagon, because i'm a fan. yeah i get mad and yell at the tv when he does something i dont agree with. I tell everyone "i aint messing with this dude no more". I'm not gonna jump on someone else's bandwagon. I will respect the player but I wont become a fan. Thats just me.

Besides, if i jumped on the CranWagon, who would be left to go back and forth with?

This is why you are okay with me Tim............

You GET it................

Eewwll and myself went back and forth about 50 replies in 2004 on the main board. Through that I had a fuckin life altering experience................

One of the best ways to learn is to actually put your opinions out there. for discussion.....This allows you to hear them....It tests them and allows them to grow or die depending on it's merit...........


Kobe had me fooled straight up. I felt he had every right to be arrogant considering what he had accomplished at souch a young age. During the 2004 season, when the Shaq/Kobe fued escalated, I just thought it was internal family squabbles....Hell I even thought that Shaq, being the veteran and older, should be the bigger man.

Little did I know that Kobe's punk ass broke MAN LAW #1......he got in trouble and brought Shaq's name up. That one act alone told me a lot about his composition. That is the one friend in the group that every man fears....THE SNITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Further punk bitch shit:...refusing to shoot in not one but at least two games. The 2004 Finals was the worst shit I have seen in sports as far as a player with an agenda. Still slick ass Kobe was so smooth, he made it seem as if it was everyone elses fault. TO needs Kobe's publicist...to make this selfishness seem like greatness was a master stroke.

Kobe took full advantage of the confusion surrounding the previous Championships. It seemed as if Shaq won them, however because Kobe came through big in OT against Indi, the full credit was muddled. Yes Shaq won them , however there was Phil and Kobe to ride the coattails.


Cran was the first one to really point this out in a detailed fashion to me. I couldn't really understand most of what was going on I just knew Kobe became very suspect in my book.....Once Cran pointed out exactly how Kobe was fooling the public I have seen the true light. It's funny, once one searches for truth it comes in all forms.


This is one illusion I am glad to be rid of.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Yeah man..that would be disastrous to the activity on this board

Ya know


The Fakers play the 76ers........

I have Philly

Any takers on LA?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Didnt read the article yet as Im sure its more of the same old BS. Like I said last year when I made my list of top 5 SGs in the league, Wobe wasnt included and still isnt top 5 in my opinion and that is why I dont understand why people (sports writers) continue to say he is the most talented player in the league when he's not even the most talented player on his own team.

My problem with the whole "Wobe phenomenon" has always been the comparison to Jordan because if you look deeply into it, there really is nothing to merit a comparison other than they could both score. Once these sportswriters admit that Bryant was never good enough to be the next Jordan and is nothing more than a one dimensional scorer that owes everything to O'Neal then I'd have nothing else to say.

Amen to that...Just this Sunday I had to watch a halftime piece about Kobe image rehab.....Then he pulls the elbow shit again.......I think this is really the last year of this BS.........

If the HEat and WADE make it to the Finals and win coupled with a first round exit of the LAkers that should thake the remaining prefume off this pile of shit Kobe marketing

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

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He's been doing this the whole time

I will find that best damn sports clip and send it to all the local radio guys here

 

[Spectrum]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

He's been doing this the whole time

I will find that best damn sports clip and send it to all the local radio guys here

First game back off the elbow throw suspension..and what does he do..throw another elbow..he has probably been doing it so long its habitual now. That shit is dirty as hell.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

First game back off the elbow throw suspension..and what does he do..throw another elbow..he has probably been doing it so long its habitual now. That shit is dirty as hell.

Thats how he creates space for his moves..........


Raja has been saying it for the longest...

The second time the Heat played the Lakers he started to give Wade elbows until Wade hit him back........

Mike Miller anyone?

It seems he is getting more and more exposed everyday....

I can't wait to hear the divorce with no prenup that should drop after they get knocked out the playoffs........

Phonies cannot handle the pressure of losing and improving........


He deserves all the shit he gets........The leauge has finally decided to take the shine off of him....he wont be able to handle it........

 

[cranrab]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

That shit is dirty as hell.

i'm probably going to send some people into cardiac arrest, but i don't think this is dirty.

all of these actions are "crutch" moves, usually seen from weak or no-skilled players.

example: arm bars to protect your dribble (keeping a defender at arm's length) are completely legal, but it becomes illegal when you use your arm to push off the defender.

example 2: when attacking the goal, smaller offensive players (usually guards) will illegally use their off arm to "clear out" or interfere with the larger defensive players who are attempting to block the shot.

these cheating moves are used by lazy and/or unskilled players who lack either the talent or athleticism to complete ordinary basketball moves. i'm HAPPY to see the league penalizing players who are not competing using correct basketball moves.

 

[cranrab]

Btw

speaking about punishing players for non basketball moves.

we've heard a lot in the media lately about the NBA considering punishing players for flopping. my take on that is "why?". isn't a no-call the proper punishment? let a defender foolishly take himself out of the play by voluntarily laying down on the floor. a no-call is the proper solution, in my mind.

also, vlade divac is unfairly being framed as the father of the "flop". THIS IS COMPLETELY INCORRECT. the BEST "flopper" of all time was michael cooper. and michael cooper TAUGHT vlade divac how to "flop" when they played together on the fakers.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

i'm probably going to send some people into cardiac arrest, but i don't think this is dirty.

I gotta disagree completely. Using your off arm to clear out a defender or to illegally push off is MUCH different that throwing a wild elbow to the face. Also, consider that one the two that got him suspended, the elbow was thrown AFTER the shot attempt. His elbows do NOTHING to help him get his shot RELEASED. In both cases the ball was already cleanly out of his hands. Connecting with that elbow has a MUCH higher chance of injuring a defending player than a push off or clear. Also, in the case of Bryant, he is landing these elbows directly to the face..with a little more force or proper placement we are talking about a broken nose. This PARTICULAR play could be related to the clear out example you gave to create space.. but as a whole..looking at the history of his elbow throwing, some of it clearly just dirty and ill-intentioned

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

I gotta disagree completely. Using your off arm to clear out a defender or to illegally push off is MUCH different that throwing a wild elbow to the face. Also, consider that one the two that got him suspended, the elbow was thrown AFTER the shot attempt. His elbows do NOTHING to help him get his shot RELEASED. In both cases the ball was already cleanly out of his hands. Connecting with that elbow has a MUCH higher chance of injuring a defending player than a push off or clear. Also, in the case of Bryant, he is landing these elbows directly to the face..with a little more force or proper placement we are talking about a broken nose. This PARTICULAR play could be related to the clear out example you gave to create space.. but as a whole..looking at the history of his elbow throwing, some of it clearly just dirty and ill-intentioned

I agree with both Cran and Big E................

I have seen these types of clear outs a lot........At the LA fitness.......For a player they have been trying to sell as "better than Jordan" it seems real dirty.

I am still looking for the clip when he was bragging about learning how to throw sneaky elbows from his DAD and Malone.....

 

[cranrab]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

I gotta disagree completely. Using your off arm to clear out a defender or to illegally push off is MUCH different that throwing a wild elbow to the face.

granted. but i'll give another example.

IN MY DAY, after securing a rebound you were taught to put the ball under your chin with 2 hands on the ball, flare your elbows out parallel to the floor, and make WIDE pivots. this is/was COMPLETELY legal, but sent a message to opponents to not fuck with your rebound unless they want to risk a shot to the chops.

the elbow was intentional, but legal. as long as you did not AIM your bows at somebody, this was fine. lord knows many a face received the message loud and clear from the likes of wes unseld and maurice lucas.

tobe's wild OUTWARD flailing is not only NOT taught, it is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL to a shooter's motion. it is also contrary to what good shooters are taught: "arms up together, arms down together".

tobe swinging his arms is intentional, but illegal. it is clearly an offensive foul, but more than that it is CHEAP basketball. now we can add yet another cheating move to the already too-large dictionary of lazy basketball moves.

1. dribbling with your hand underneath the ball
2. unable to execute a crossover without placing your hand underneath the ball
3. the offensive clearout on a layup or dunk
4. swinging your arms OUTWARD on a jump shot

cheap tricks don't belong in basketball, they're usually used by aging veterans with eroding skills who can't perform as well as they used to, or young players who are completely outmatched...

Also, consider that one the two that got him suspended, the elbow was thrown AFTER the shot attempt. His elbows do NOTHING to help him get his shot RELEASED. In both cases the ball was already cleanly out of his hands. Connecting with that elbow has a MUCH higher chance of injuring a defending player than a push off or clear. Also, in the case of Bryant, he is landing these elbows directly to the face..with a little more force or proper placement we are talking about a broken nose.

agreed. and that is why i have no respect for his explanation of trying to draw contact for a foul. we've all suffered through witnessing his multi-pump jump shot for the past few seasons. that move is his completely LEGAL method of attempting to draw contact. the other ACCEPTED way is to JUMP into the defender, not SWING at the defender.



i think this part of tobe's game is reprehensible and disgusting either way.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

granted. but i'll give another example.

IN MY DAY, after securing a rebound you were taught to put the ball under your chin with 2 hands on the ball, flare your elbows out parallel to the floor, and make WIDE pivots. this is/was COMPLETELY legal, but sent a message to opponents to not fuck with your rebound unless they want to risk a shot to the chops.

the elbow was intentional, but legal. as long as you did not AIM your bows at somebody, this was fine. lord knows many a face received the message loud and clear from the likes of wes unseld and maurice lucas.

Good example. You are absolutely correct with this

tobe's wild OUTWARD flailing is not only NOT taught, it is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL to a shooter's motion. it is also contrary to what good shooters are taught: "arms up together, arms down together".

tobe swinging his arms is intentional, but illegal. it is clearly an offensive foul, but more than that it is CHEAP basketball.

That is the thing that kills me about it... he is compromising good form to catch someone with an elbow. Another player that used the flare out after a shot was Reggie Miller.. but he used his legs to draw contact.... questionable.. but he wasnt throwing knees at heads..so no one would get injured that might just pick up a cheap foul. I have not had a chance to watch the games all year, but it seems as though, from the elbows I have seen, he is throwing those elbows with the intent to make contact to the face.

now we can add yet another cheating move to the already too-large dictionary of lazy basketball moves.

1. dribbling with your hand underneath the ball
2. unable to execute a crossover without placing your hand underneath the ball
3. the offensive clearout on a layup or dunk
4. swinging your arms OUTWARD on a jump shot

I have always respected the Tim Hardaway and Isaiah Thomas crossovers much than the new-school... equivalent of carrying.

cheap tricks don't belong in basketball, they're usually used by aging veterans with eroding skills who can't perform as well as they used to, or young players who are completely outmatched...



agreed. and that is why i have no respect for his explanation of trying to draw contact for a foul. we've all suffered through witnessing his multi-pump jump shot for the past few seasons. that move is his completely LEGAL method of attempting to draw contact. the other ACCEPTED way is to JUMP into the defender, not SWING at the defender.



i think this part of tobe's game is reprehensible and disgusting either way.

Agreed on the rest. I had already lost a lot of respect for Kobe as a player.. I think this latest tirade of Elbow Throwing to the face has only begun to expose him even more. If(when) the Lakers continue this downward spiral and get bumped out of the playoffs first round( if they end the season down 1 or 2 spots in the 7 of 8 position) they might get swept by either Phoenix or Dallas, there are really going to be asking questions out in LA.

Meanwhile, Shaq just scored his season high last night

 

[cranrab]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

tobe's wild OUTWARD flailing is not only NOT taught, it is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL to a shooter's motion. it is also contrary to what good shooters are taught: "arms up together, arms down together".

tobe swinging his arms is intentional, but illegal. it is clearly an offensive foul, but more than that it is CHEAP basketball.

"Everybody's got a little trick, but that's not a little trick, to hit someone in the head," said Schrempf, a 16-year NBA veteran. "To me it seems hard to do that naturally. Next time (Bryant) comes down the lane three guys would have taken him out. He would have been under the basket support, but nowadays that would be a 10-game suspension."

 

[xfactor]

Re: Another Kobe Forearm Shiv

Will the fakers make the Playoffs???

I was semi-joking when I made this thread (Although Wobe has never led his team to the playoffs before) but after watching some of tonight's game, I would not be surprised if this team tanked the rest of the season like they did in 2004-2005. I hear Walton is due back next game and Odom is supposed to come back next week (seems like a desperation rush to me).

But then again, making the playoffs should be a piece of cake, being that the lakers have the "2nd greatest player in NBA History"

 

[cranrab]

joke of the century

can't.....stop.....laughing.....convulsing.....ROTFLMMFAO!!!

"Our team is not about having the best talent in the world. Our team is built on chemistry and guys knowing how to play together," said Bryant, obviously frustrated. "So when you take three starters out of the lineup and insert guys who are new to these concepts, it makes it difficult."

 

[Diamels]

Re: joke of the century

can't.....stop.....laughing.....convulsing.....ROTFLMMFAO!!!

"Our team is not about having the best talent in the world. Our team is built on chemistry and guys knowing how to play together," said Bryant, obviously frustrated. "So when you take three starters out of the lineup and insert guys who are new to these concepts, it makes it difficult."

There he goes with the teammates again. I would say he should go to a non-team sport like golf, but then he would blame his caddy. If he was a boxer he would blame his cornermen. If he was a NASCAR driver he would blame his pit crew. Fuck it maybe he should just go into bowling...

 

[Spectrum]

Re: joke of the century

There he goes with the teammates again. I would say he should go to a non-team sport like golf, but then he would blame his caddy. If he was a boxer he would blame his cornermen. If he was a NASCAR driver he would blame his pit crew. Fuck it maybe he should just go into bowling...

He would then blame his bowling ball manufacturer

 

[Spectrum]

Re: joke of the century

Kobe being investigated AGAIN:

NBA looking into Kobe's elbow against Korver

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16885428.htm

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: joke of the century

He would then blame his bowling ball manufacturer