Iran did called trump bluff

I don't play goal-post moving games. You lost. Just take the L. First it didn't exist. Now you're trying to create specific edge cases (which aren't even edge cases, ironically)

Ivana Trump also said Donald beat her and ripped her hair out of her scalp :lol:
So this is also a case of "severe battery and abuse".

You're going to twist yourself in a knot trying to run away from the L :smh:

And rape itself is battery and abuse. You're sounding like a real idiot with your responses right now. You're better than this. Stop being emotional. It's ok to be wrong.

You just asked..."show me a case of ice-cream melting where there isn't also "warm" temperatures" :smh:

Da fuck you think rape is?

Take a pause and re-read.

Not moving goalpost and not running away. As I said, originally, [in a vast majority of the world] there is no such thing as “spousal rape”.

They are rarely ever successfully adjudicated in countries that do without a witness or severe signs of battery & trauma.
(Rape is an abuse. I said a connected severe abuse).

A 1v1 rape accusation between parties that have well established, ongoing shared intimacies with no witnesses or video is one of the most difficult cases for a prosecutor to trial and one of the easiest for a defense attorney to shred.

Complicate this with co-habitation and tenants of marriage, and before a jury, the prosecutor has an uphill ice skate. They would need to find overwhelming contributory evidence (ie a connected severe abuse & battery) and/or witness.



Edit:
I stand corrected. In my first reply I wrote “No court in the world...” That was an exaggerated statement.

I followed up with “successfully adjudicated”, so obviously I am cognizant that some courts do as you cannot adjudicate unless there is a law.

However, the rest of the statement & reply above holds true.
 
Last edited:
Edit:
I stand corrected. In my first reply I wrote “No court in the world...” That was an exaggerated statement.

....

You're using a lot of exaggerated statements.. e.g.. "Who in here hasn't been credibly accused of rape by 19 different women?"

You're doing a lot of generalizing.

However, the rest of the statement holds true. The are rarely successful

What percentage result in convictions vs the rest of rape cases? I'm asking you because you're saying they're "rarely" successful so I'm sure you're quantifying that against something.
 
....

You're using a lot of exaggerated statements.. e.g.. "Who in here hasn't been credibly accused of rape by 19 different women?"

You're doing a lot of generalizing.
I’m using hyperbole, not generalization.
Be that as it may, I think you would honestly agree that the me too movement over the past two years has made many woman with legitimate claims step forward-but also many women with nonsensical or illegitimate claims come forward and those claims are instantly given tacit approval and legitimized by the movement, with stunningly detrimental effect to the accused.


What percentage result in convictions vs the rest of rape cases? I'm asking you because you're saying they're "rarely" successful so I'm sure you're quantifying that against something.
Yes. It’s a very easy quantification. What are the total number of rapes That are alleged. Divide that number by the number of rape cases that are taken to adjudication. Divide that number by the number of spousal rape cases. Then divide that number by the number of successful prosecutions of spousal rape versus any other rape or sodomy.
 
I’m using hyperbole, not generalization.
Be that as it may, I think you would honestly agree that the me too movement over the past two years has made many woman with legitimate claims step forward-but also many women with nonsensical or illegitimate claims come forward and those claims are instantly given tacit approval and legitimized by the movement, with stunningly detrimental effect to the accused.

How are you quantifying that? Are you just using some anecdotal evidence?

I don't make any assumptions about veracity of claims since the start of the "me too" movement. I'm also not sure if we've gotten to a place where claims are instantly given tacit approval. 10s of millions of American's didn't believe Kavanaugh's accuser. Millions aren't legitimizing the most recent, credible claim against Trump.

I do think that people who make that claim (about false claims destroying the credibility of a movement) take the same stance as whites who believe claims of racism/sexual assault are invalidated by cases like the Duke University lacrosse case because it was a specific confirmation of what they already wanted to believe anyway. It's just confirmation bias.

In my opinion, all you're seeing is a wall of protection being slowly eradicated. Women have been lying about sexual assaults since the beginning of time and black men in this country know that it's nothing inherently new with the "me too" movement.

Yes. It’s a very easy quantification. What are the total number of rapes That are alleged. Divide that number by the number of rape cases that are taken to adjudication. Divide that number by the number of spousal rape cases. Then divide that number by the number of successful prosecutions of spousal rape versus any other rape or sodomy.

You're doing it again. You said it's "rare" which quantifies it. I didn't ask if you if it was easy to quantify. I didn't ask you how would you quantify it. I'm asking you to back up your claim with some facts. What percentage of these cases result in conviction vs other rape cases? That was core to your argument. When you said it was "rarely" convicted because it's hard to prove I thought you were drawing from some type of factual basis as in... only 4% of these cases lead to convictions vs 30% of all other rape cases.

Doesn't change anything though.

This started with the clarification that Trump had been accused of rape/sexual assault by 20 different women. You went with "that just happens in the me too era". I said he's also been accused of rape by his ex-wife. You said that's not really possible and you also need some other type of violence there for it to be legitimate. I then informed you that she also said he routinely beat her and ripped her hair out of her scalp. She made these claims decades before the "me too" movement. So I'm trying to understand where are you going with this?
 
This started with the clarification that Trump had been accused of rape/sexual assault by 20 different women. You went with "that just happens in the me too era". I said he's also been accused of rape by his ex-wife. You said that's not really possible and you also need some other type of violence there for it to be legitimate. I then informed you that she also said he routinely beat her and ripped her hair out of her scalp. She made these claims decades before the "me too" movement. So I'm trying to understand where are you going with this?
:smh:
 
@Heist done left bgol and became a full blown MAGA head. Imagine spending this much time defending Trump's every move lmao... even his sick bedroom antics. Dude is probably a Qanon cultist now too... ol "great awakening" lookin ass :lol:
Not at all. I just question the vehemence and disgust of some people when many other President have done the same (and worse) and there was barely a murmur.
 
Not at all. I just question the vehemence and disgust of some people when many other President have done the same (and worse) and there was barely a murmur.
Like who?
Which president was this ?
The same?
#talking out of the side of ya neck..
 
Like who?
Which president was this ?
The same?
#talking out of the side of ya neck..

That’s not a serious question is it?
Which President committed heinous crimes, violated treaties, violated airspace, cheated on their wives, ran rampant with executive orders, did drugs, engaged in cronyism, accepted foreign campaign donations, accepted political intelligence from foreign actors, etc etc.

How about just about every single one of them (and some of the candidates too).
 
That’s not a serious question is it?
Which President committed heinous crimes, violated treaties, violated airspace, cheated on their wives, ran rampant with executive orders, did drugs, engaged in cronyism, accepted foreign campaign donations, accepted political intelligence from foreign actors, etc etc.

How about just about every single one of them (and some of the candidates too).
I thought you were talking about rape...
 
@Heist done left bgol and became a full blown MAGA head. Imagine spending this much time defending Trump's every move lmao... even his sick bedroom antics. Dude is probably a Qanon cultist now too... ol "great awakening" lookin ass :lol:
Yeah man the Heist cat hard headed, BGOL trying to knock some sense in him but he just don't wanna listen...


:lol:
 







How Trump trips up his own Afghan peace efforts





90

President Donald Trump gives an update on U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan at Fort Myer base in Virginia in 2017. | Mark Wilson/Getty Images



'Why would the Taliban give up anything in exchange for something the president has already said he wants to do?' asks one critic.


By WESLEY MORGAN


08/16/2019 06:02 PM EDT


Updated 08/16/2019 07:16 PM EDT


President Donald Trump’s efforts to end the U.S. war in Afghanistan keep hitting a major roadblock: his own proclamations that he wants to get out.

Trump has repeatedly made it known he wants to remove all U.S. troops from the 18-year-old Afghan conflict, a topic he returned to Friday afternoon as his advisers briefed him on the status of peace talks with the Taliban.

Story Continued Below


but his public statements and leaks of his closed-door demands have weakened the hand of his negotiators by making it clear just how desperately the president wants a deal, according to multiple current and former U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the deliberations.

His top negotiator, Zalmay Khalilzad, is preparing for the ninth round of talks with the Taliban, seeking to reach a settlement that would allow the 13,000 U.S. troops still deployed to the country to come home.

Trump’s “known impatience and desire to get out have effectively forced Khalilzad to negotiate with one hand behind his back and given the Taliban an incentive to delay and harden their demands to see if they can get what they want for free,” said Christopher Kolenda, a retired Army colonel and Afghanistan veteran who has interacted unofficially with Taliban representatives.

For example, just weeks after Trump named Khalilzad as his top envoy to the talks in December, Trump blindsided his advisers with instructions to pull half of the American troops out immediately — an order he was then talked out of giving.



“You appoint someone to be your primary negotiator who’s empowered to carry out these meetings, and then six weeks later you tell everyone you’re handing your adversary half of what they want for nothing?” asked a former defense official who was working on Afghanistan issues at the time.




“The timing couldn’t have been worse. It was severely damaging,” agreed a current military official with recent experience in Kabul. “We’ve probably gone double the rounds [of negotiations] because the Taliban were like, ‘Hey, you’re leaving anyway. Why should we negotiate?’"

The two officials, and six others interviewed for this story, spoke to POLITICO on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss internal deliberations over the peace process or troop drawdown plans.

Khalilzad briefed Trump on Friday on the progress of the negotiations. The closed-door meeting, which took place at Trump’s golf resort in Bedminster, N.J., was also attended by Vice President Mike Pence; Secretary of State Mike Pompeo; Secretary of Defense Mark Esper; Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford; National Security Adviser John Bolton; and CIA Director Gina Haspel.

"Discussions centered around our ongoing negotiations and eventual peace and reconciliation agreement with the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan," White House spokesperson Hogan Gidley said in a statement. "The meeting went very well, and negotiations are proceeding."


"We remain committed to achieving a comprehensive peace agreement, including a reduction in violence and a ceasefire, ensuring that Afghan soil is never again used to threaten the United States or her allies, and bringing Afghans together to work towards peace," Pompeo added in a separate statement.

Trump's New Jersey retreat is the same venue where, two years ago, his national security team persuaded him to back additional troops and air strikes in Afghanistan in the hopes of forcing the Taliban to negotiate.

“My original instinct was to pull out, and historically, I like following my instincts,” Trump said in an August 2017 speech announcing that move.

The dilemma demonstrates the longstanding tension between Trump and the national security establishment over Afghanistan.

For more than two years the U.S. military headquarters in Kabul has waited anxiously for the presidential tweet, pronouncement or order pulling the rug out from under the 2017 strategy — the stated aim of which is to apply enough military pressure to the Taliban to bring them to, and keep them at, the negotiating table.


“You know there’s a shot clock, but you don’t know how much time is on it,” said one of the officials with recent experience in Kabul. “I hadn’t felt the politics before like I have this time.”

The biggest scare came last December when Trump ordered a pullout of troops from Syria, prompting the resignation of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. Trump also declared that he wanted half the U.S. troops in Afghanistan withdrawn.

“The president said, ‘Let’s do this,’ and nobody was ready for that,” a former defense official recalled regarding the Afghanistan directive. “That caused quite a bit of consternation. The State Department was looking to [the Pentagon] like, ‘What is this drawdown,’ and we were like, ‘Uhhh?’”

In the meantime, Trump has mused publicly about the utility of staying in Afghanistan. “Why are we there and we’re 6,000 miles away?” he asked during a televised Cabinet meeting in early January.
 







How Trump trips up his own Afghan peace efforts





90

President Donald Trump gives an update on U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan at Fort Myer base in Virginia in 2017. | Mark Wilson/Getty Images



'Why would the Taliban give up anything in exchange for something the president has already said he wants to do?' asks one critic.


By WESLEY MORGAN


08/16/2019 06:02 PM EDT


Updated 08/16/2019 07:16 PM EDT


President Donald Trump’s efforts to end the U.S. war in Afghanistan keep hitting a major roadblock: his own proclamations that he wants to get out.

Trump has repeatedly made it known he wants to remove all U.S. troops from the 18-year-old Afghan conflict, a topic he returned to Friday afternoon as his advisers briefed him on the status of peace talks with the Taliban.

Story Continued Below


but his public statements and leaks of his closed-door demands have weakened the hand of his negotiators by making it clear just how desperately the president wants a deal, according to multiple current and former U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the deliberations.

His top negotiator, Zalmay Khalilzad, is preparing for the ninth round of talks with the Taliban, seeking to reach a settlement that would allow the 13,000 U.S. troops still deployed to the country to come home.

Trump’s “known impatience and desire to get out have effectively forced Khalilzad to negotiate with one hand behind his back and given the Taliban an incentive to delay and harden their demands to see if they can get what they want for free,” said Christopher Kolenda, a retired Army colonel and Afghanistan veteran who has interacted unofficially with Taliban representatives.

For example, just weeks after Trump named Khalilzad as his top envoy to the talks in December, Trump blindsided his advisers with instructions to pull half of the American troops out immediately — an order he was then talked out of giving.



“You appoint someone to be your primary negotiator who’s empowered to carry out these meetings, and then six weeks later you tell everyone you’re handing your adversary half of what they want for nothing?” asked a former defense official who was working on Afghanistan issues at the time.




“The timing couldn’t have been worse. It was severely damaging,” agreed a current military official with recent experience in Kabul. “We’ve probably gone double the rounds [of negotiations] because the Taliban were like, ‘Hey, you’re leaving anyway. Why should we negotiate?’"

The two officials, and six others interviewed for this story, spoke to POLITICO on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss internal deliberations over the peace process or troop drawdown plans.

Khalilzad briefed Trump on Friday on the progress of the negotiations. The closed-door meeting, which took place at Trump’s golf resort in Bedminster, N.J., was also attended by Vice President Mike Pence; Secretary of State Mike Pompeo; Secretary of Defense Mark Esper; Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford; National Security Adviser John Bolton; and CIA Director Gina Haspel.

"Discussions centered around our ongoing negotiations and eventual peace and reconciliation agreement with the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan," White House spokesperson Hogan Gidley said in a statement. "The meeting went very well, and negotiations are proceeding."


"We remain committed to achieving a comprehensive peace agreement, including a reduction in violence and a ceasefire, ensuring that Afghan soil is never again used to threaten the United States or her allies, and bringing Afghans together to work towards peace," Pompeo added in a separate statement.

Trump's New Jersey retreat is the same venue where, two years ago, his national security team persuaded him to back additional troops and air strikes in Afghanistan in the hopes of forcing the Taliban to negotiate.

“My original instinct was to pull out, and historically, I like following my instincts,” Trump said in an August 2017 speech announcing that move.

The dilemma demonstrates the longstanding tension between Trump and the national security establishment over Afghanistan.

For more than two years the U.S. military headquarters in Kabul has waited anxiously for the presidential tweet, pronouncement or order pulling the rug out from under the 2017 strategy — the stated aim of which is to apply enough military pressure to the Taliban to bring them to, and keep them at, the negotiating table.


“You know there’s a shot clock, but you don’t know how much time is on it,” said one of the officials with recent experience in Kabul. “I hadn’t felt the politics before like I have this time.”

The biggest scare came last December when Trump ordered a pullout of troops from Syria, prompting the resignation of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. Trump also declared that he wanted half the U.S. troops in Afghanistan withdrawn.

“The president said, ‘Let’s do this,’ and nobody was ready for that,” a former defense official recalled regarding the Afghanistan directive. “That caused quite a bit of consternation. The State Department was looking to [the Pentagon] like, ‘What is this drawdown,’ and we were like, ‘Uhhh?’”

In the meantime, Trump has mused publicly about the utility of staying in Afghanistan. “Why are we there and we’re 6,000 miles away?” he asked during a televised Cabinet meeting in early January.

"I'm a great negotiator," he said. Translated, I throw a tantrum until I get what I want. This muhfucka stay steppin' on his own dick and everybody has to scramble to contain or do damage control for his fuckups.
 
There's been more wargames since. The operational environment in Iran is... less than ideal. They are well prepared for unconventional/asymmetric warfare and have been involved in proxy insurgencies in the region for decades. The worst thing about this thread is that we're spending a lot of time going back and forth about US capability (which is unquestionable) and less time talking about how retarded, unnecessary and amatuer this escalation is from a foreign policy perspective. We're witness to the most transparently incompetent admin this side of Bush ll and if we actually go war the cheerleader chickenhawks will pretend they saw thru this bullshit in 20 years when the new 'forever war' winds down (lack of character is predictable).

Ayy. Where my prognosticators at? I tried to explain the reality years ago. Are there any "insiders" with real, actrual info to share?
 
$48 Billion that DoD (DoW?) spent so far on this incredibly stupid Iran war (that they'll tell y'all about now). A black hole of an org that has never passed an Audit EVER. Many trillions disappeared chasing all kinds of dragons.

Israel deciding now if they should attack Iran (ie if "we" should attack Iran) after the election next week to move past their own current electoral gridlock. We live in an EXTREMELY goofy timeline.

#FreePalestine
 
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