Elizabeth Warren proposes ‘wealth tax’ on Americans with more than $50 million in assets

[HeavyArmz]

So a tax for being successful !?! Maybe it's just me, but how come no democrats talk about cutting spending. It seems to always be; hey we can't afford something so let's raise taxes . I'm just a dude raised by a single mother who thought me what it means to manage my financial situation

Man fuck that successful narrative. How many people sitting on that kind of bread actually earned that kind of bread? Versus inheriting their wealth?

We don’t need to cut taxes, we just need everyone to pay their fair share. And the niggas with generational wealth haven’t been paying theirs. It’s that simple. Capital gains tax rates vs income tax rate la is laughable. The rich have just moved the tax burden to income tax.

 

[sharkbait28]

Man fuck that successful narrative. How many people sitting on that kind of bread actually earned that kind of bread? Versus inheriting their wealth?

We don’t need to cut taxes, we just need everyone to pay their fair share. And the niggas with generational wealth haven’t been paying theirs. It’s that simple. Capital gains tax rates vs income tax rate la is laughable. The rich have just moved the tax burden to income tax.

Word. Folks in this thread are pretending that the ultra wealthy haven't been limiting their tax liability to damn near zero via clever accounting for decades. There's no discussion here about the fact that small and medium size businesses (and ordinary individual contributors) generally bear higher tax burdens than the mega rich in reality.

Championing Austrian style Chicago School economics is retarded af given all the data we have. As an example, huge corporate tax cuts are supposed to "trickle down" on the American economy like so much piss but the data has been clear for decades... these insane tax cuts for corps are generally siphoned off by the owner/shareholder class via buy backs and stock dividends (with no magical wage increases or massive hiring as promised ever). The data is irrefutable. Fuck the status quo... I'm glad Warren and Sanders etc are raising these issues and offering a meaningful alternative to the mealy-mouthed GOP doppelgangers the DNC insists on sending out.

 

[Amajorfucup]

Time and time again, politicians REFUSE to look at the case study and verified history and will advance a failed policy despite the ample evidence left by other countries who tried the same - which lead to an economic collapse. Dems always seem to think the solution to every problems resides in a simple linear thought process:
"Let's tax them more! They have it, we want it, and they don't need it anyway."

HINT: England tried this very thing in in the 70s; a wealth tax that would impose an excise 'success' tax on the top income brackets. The outcome was callamitous.

The ultra wealthy and wealthy simple gave Parliment the middle finger, packed up their bags and accounts and moved to other countries and territories (The USA, Monaco, France, etc.) The resulting MASSIVE outflows of working capital and tax revenue lead England's economy to first fall flat and then nosedive into a recession.

The London School of Economics have a good paper. Are you telling me that a goddamn US Senator and her staff doesn't have enough common sense to consult published reports and white papers, or even a school of economics to vet this idea? Moronic.


Edit: For those interesting he's the LSE's white paper on the failed '74 policy.
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/42582/1/Why_was_a_wealth_tax_for_the_UK_abandoned_(lsero).pdf
----------
A snippet:
From this point on, April 1974, however, the Treasury began to become more and more sceptical. Civil servants began to look more carefully at the practical problems and the wider economic impact. An internal note dated 20th May 1974 was entitled ‘Wealth Tax – possible exodus of UK capital.’ (TNA: PRO T328/1017.) Harold Lever, Harold Wilson’s advisor on financial matters, wrote to the Prime Minister on 7th June putting the Wealth Tax in the context of other things the government were trying to do. ‘We are now running a serious risk of a crisis of confidence ....

One paper, after reviewing the likely impact of the tax, concluded that a wealth tax: ‘1. Will lead people to seek non resident status, result in a considerable outflow of funds in the form of dividends and interest.2. Since it will apply to all wealth held world wide foreign employees in foreign companies resident here would be subject to tax. This would result in a big movement of banks, insurance and shipping business moving out of the UK. 3. Assets held here would be affected. This would reduce the level of business in UK.’

Are you comparing 1970's UK economy. tax base, and consumer spending to the US today?

Further, the US had a tax rate topping out at near 70% before Reagun came in and fucked over the economy and poor folk with his trickle down bullshit. His tax cuts ultimately resulted in a double dip recession and soaring unemployment.

Stop the nonsense man.

 

[ZuluSam]

It simply amazes me at how many people who will never make that kind of money defend ultra-rich muthafuckas who wouldn't even invite you to sit at their dinner table for a meal.

When this country was at it's best, ultra income was taxed at 70%....that is how we had a booming middle class....period......

Now the middle class is almost dead and stupid mutherfuckas don't know why.....

Niccas in this thread really talking about it punishes success........LOL....you think the ultra rich just gonna give their money up and start living like your dumb ass because they don't want to pay a higher tax rate....naw...they gonnna keep right on making grand theft and laughing at your dumb ass every time you vote for their interest instead of yours.

 

[ZuluSam]

Are you comparing 1970's UK economy. tax base, and consumer spending to the US today?

Further, the US had a tax rate topping out at near 70% before Reagun came in and fucked over the economy and poor folk with his trickle down bullshit. His tax cuts ultimately resulted in a double dip recession and soaring unemployment.

Stop the nonsense man.

Shit is utter nonsense. Muthfuckas have really fallen for the okie doke.....

Rich: If you don't tax us and let us make goo gobs of money, we will create jobs and industry and you, the laborer, will have an increased standard of living.

Complete and total bullshit.....the very same idiots who come in threads talking about how the rich wear thirty dollar this and that, while poor folk wearing 200 dollar this and that, become complete idiots when it is on a grander scale.....they ALWAYS think that way...ALWAYS.....they will pay you as little as the law will allow, they will create only the jobs barely needed to sustain their business......and they will keep ALL THE REST FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

The rich didn't GIVE labor a 40 hour work week...labor had to take it.
The rich didn't GIVE into rules regulating child labor.....it had to be shoved down their throats.

Muhfuckas just don't get it......

 

[Heist]

So they have already taken thier money out of the U.S.? Calamity will soon ensue.

Pass a "success" tax or wealth tax, or whatever semantic she wants to call it. Sit back and watch how the wealthy respond to that sort of ridiculousness.
There's already a playbook - UK 1974. And not that currency is more fungible and fluid, watch how fast the Treasury dept and IRS figure out they're running a huge current account deficit.

 

[Heist]

It simply amazes me at how many people who will never make that kind of money defend ultra-rich muthafuckas who wouldn't even invite you to sit at their dinner table for a meal.

When this country was at it's best, ultra income was taxed at 70%....that is how we had a booming middle class....period......

When the ultra-income tax existed, about 30 different additional taxes did not. There was literally no such thing. The ultra-tax was initially passed through to assist in funding 2 major world wars. Government being government and never looking to pass up a good opportunity to reach into someone's pocket, left it in place until sanity returned after Vietnam.

That said, if you're really an American (with a capital A), irrespective of your own personal financial strata, how could [you] think that it's OK for government to reach into someone's pocket, take out a $1 and leave 30 cents? That sets an extremely dangerous tone for government and is the very definition of over-reach. Not to mention, where does it stop? You've demonstrated to the government that you're completely ambivalent about them taking another private individual's money so long as you 'get a piece.'

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
- Alexis de Tocqueville

 

[Heist]

.they will pay you as little as the law will allow, they will create only the jobs barely needed to sustain their business......and they will keep ALL THE REST FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES.

You write this as if this is not what business and business owners are supposed to do?
Private business don't exist to be public thrifts. It's not their place nor priority to make sure you make an equal share of the profit.

You've taken ZERO risk to start, run, and sustain the enterprise.
You've added ZERO capital or funding to start the business.
You have ZERO legal liability or tort responsibility for the business.
And unless you're mechanic or tradesman, you probably brought ZERO supplies, tools, or uniforms to the business.

Business exist to generate a profit for their shareholders and investors. Period.
Business owners think like negotiators and will pay you exactly what they think you're value is to business and not a penny more. If they can get your labor / skill for less, they'll be happy to pay you less if you accept such wages.

It is YOUR job to negotiate the best package of salary and benefits based on your skill and what accretive aspect you can deliver to the business and make that case to the whomever is doing the hiring, and if you find the wages unsatisfactory, it's your job to know your worth and decline to work for that employer.

 

[Watcher]

So a tax for being successful !?! Maybe it's just me, but how come no democrats talk about cutting spending. It seems to always be; hey we can't afford something so let's raise taxes . I'm just a dude raised by a single mother who thought me what it means to manage my financial situation

Tax for not paying their fair share as wealthy Americans/Corporations.

Unbelievable you think this way.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018...id-one-thing-give-rich-people-more-money.html

 

[Famous1]

When the ultra-income tax existed, about 30 different additional taxes did not. There was literally no such thing. The ultra-tax was initially passed through to assist in funding 2 major world wars. Government being government and never looking to pass up a good opportunity to reach into someone's pocket, left it in place until sanity returned after Vietnam.

That said, if you're really an American (with a capital A), irrespective of your own personal financial strata, how could [you] think that it's OK for government to reach into someone's pocket, take out a $1 and leave 30 cents? That sets an extremely dangerous tone for government and is the very definition of over-reach. Not to mention, where does it stop? You've demonstrated to the government that you're completely ambivalent about them taking another private individual's money so long as you 'get a piece.'

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
- Alexis de Tocqueville

Exaggerate much?
Its 2% on wealth over 50 million.. in other words, if your net wealth were determined to be 50 million and one dollar, you would owe an additional 2% of that one dollar (or .2 cents) to the gov't.

 

[Famous1]

You write this as if this is not what business and business owners are supposed to do?
Private business don't exist to be public thrifts. It's not their place nor priority to make sure you make an equal share of the profit.

You've taken ZERO risk to start, run, and sustain the enterprise.
You've added ZERO capital or funding to start the business.
You have ZERO legal liability or tort responsibility for the business.
And unless you're mechanic or tradesman, you probably brought ZERO supplies, tools, or uniforms to the business.

Business exist to generate a profit for their shareholders and investors. Period.
Business owners think like negotiators and will pay you exactly what they think you're value is to business and not a penny more. If they can get your labor / skill for less, they'll be happy to pay you less if you accept such wages.

It is YOUR job to negotiate the best package of salary and benefits based on your skill and what accretive aspect you can deliver to the business and make that case to the whomever is doing the hiring, and if you find the wages unsatisfactory, it's your job to know your worth and decline to work for that employer.

What about the common good?

 

[Heist]

Exaggerate much?
Its 2% on wealth over 50 million.. in other words, if your net wealth were determined to be 50 million and one dollar, you would owe an additional 2% of that one dollar (or .2 cents) to the gov't.

So again, you think it's fine to send the government a check for nearly $100,000 on every million you make after $50M, for no other reason than you made money and they developed a tax that punishes success, because [insert your well reason argument here]

 

[Heist]

What about the common good?

You confused the function of a 501 (c) (3) with a LLC.
501's exist for common good. LLC's exist to generate profit for shareholders and investors.

 

[Famous1]

So again, you think it's fine to send the government a check for nearly $100,000 on every million you make after $50M, for no other reason than you made money and they developed a tax that punishes success, because [insert your well reason argument here]

Because as a citizen of these United states corporate or otherwise, your first obligation is supposed to be to the well being of this country . For your contribution you will receive infrastructure, protections etc. These things cost money, pay up or move to Mexico.

 

[Heist]

Because as a citizen of these United states corporate or otherwise, your first obligation is supposed to be to the well being of this country . For your contribution you will receive infrastructure, protections etc. These things cost money, pay up or move to Mexico.

Great. Then as a democracy, the democratic practice should be to raise taxes 2% across the board such that every one bares a share of the obligation in furtherance of the well being of, and access to the public goods and services of this country.

Would that in fact not be fair and just?

 

[ZuluSam]

You write this as if this is not what business and business owners are supposed to do?
Private business don't exist to be public thrifts. It's not their place nor priority to make sure you make an equal share of the profit.

You've taken ZERO risk to start, run, and sustain the enterprise.
You've added ZERO capital or funding to start the business.
You have ZERO legal liability or tort responsibility for the business.
And unless you're mechanic or tradesman, you probably brought ZERO supplies, tools, or uniforms to the business.

Business exist to generate a profit for their shareholders and investors. Period.
Business owners think like negotiators and will pay you exactly what they think you're value is to business and not a penny more. If they can get your labor / skill for less, they'll be happy to pay you less if you accept such wages.

It is YOUR job to negotiate the best package of salary and benefits based on your skill and what accretive aspect you can deliver to the business and make that case to the whomever is doing the hiring, and if you find the wages unsatisfactory, it's your job to know your worth and decline to work for that employer.

That is not how I wrote it. That is how you read it. You act like you are revealing some earth shattering knowledge, when all you are doing is regurgitating what I already wrote.

I know exactly how businesses work. It is the masses voting for a ridiculous trickle down philosophy who don't understand that.

 

[Famous1]

Great. Then as a democracy, the democratic practice should be to raise taxes 2% across the board such that every one bares a share of the obligation in furtherance of the well being of, and access to the public goods and services of this country.

Would that in fact not be fair and just?

No, the democratic process would be to do what the majority of the people vote for. Claw some of that money back and put it back into the economy.

 

[Heist]

No, the democratic process would be to do what the majority of the people vote for. Claw some of that money back and put it back into the economy.

How do you "claw back" something that doesn't, nor ever, belonged to you or the public?
So basically you're endorsing government theft and wealth transfer. That's not Democracy or a Democratic process - that's tyranny, and socialism at best.

 

[Famous1]

How do you "claw back" something that doesn't, nor ever, belonged to you or the public?
So basically you're endorsing government theft and wealth transfer. That's not Democracy or a Democratic process - that's tyranny, and socialism at best.

Who does money belong to?
What is our fiat currency backed by?
Are sales tax theft and tyranny?
Did you pay your income taxes this year?

 

[Heist]

Who does money belong to?

Money is a merely a store of value. The value certainly belongs the earner. The form in which it is stored is property of the owner.
The currency, if using currency, belongs to the government.
I could store my wealth in and baseball cards if I wanted. It wouldn't be practical and highly illiquid.

What is our fiat currency backed by?

Some Gold. Some precious metals. Some of the SPR, but increasingly faith that government will extract enough tax & tariff revenues to pay its debts.

Are sales tax theft and tyranny?

Sales taxes are consumption based taxes. It's debatable.
I'm fine with reasonable consumption based taxes. There's a raft of staple goods and services I believe the government should never tax.
Be that as it may, this country was founded on a revolution that started over taxes, a King (Government) that kept adding additional taxes and increasing the ones that were in place, and representation.

Did you pay your income taxes this year?

Why is this germane?

 

[Famous1]

Money is a merely a store of value. The value certainly belongs the earner. The form in which it is stored is property of the owner.
The currency, if using currency, belongs to the government.
I could store my wealth in and baseball cards if I wanted. It wouldn't be practical and highly illiquid.


Some Gold. Some precious metals. Some of the SPR, but increasingly faith that government will extract enough tax & tariff revenues to pay its debts.

Sales taxes are consumption based taxes. It's debatable.
I'm fine with reasonable consumption based taxes. There's a raft of staple goods and services I believe the government should never tax.
Be that as it may, this country was founded on a revolution that started over taxes, a King (Government) that kept adding additional taxes and increasing the ones that were in place, and representation.

Why is this germane?

So the only taxes you agree with are small consumption based taxes? And i think you know what really gives a U.S. treasury note its value, and it ain't gold or the other stuff you mentioned.

 

[Famous1]

Why is this germane?

Do you think the 50 millionaire is somewhere asking a politician to give you some of your money back and lower your taxes? Fuck no.... so why are you trying so hard to suck him off?

 

[Heist]

Do you think the 50 millionaire is somewhere asking a politician to give you some of your money back and lower your taxes? Fuck no.... so why are you trying so hard to suck him off?

Why is having a stance that is anti-additional taxes, anti-government over-reach, and footnoting that this policy has failed in the past and the Democratic solution of "tax more" is lame and lazy, 'sucking him off'?

What the hell kind of incredulous, sophomoric conclusion is that?

 

[Drayonis]

So a tax for being successful !?! Maybe it's just me, but how come no democrats talk about cutting spending. It seems to always be; hey we can't afford something so let's raise taxes . I'm just a dude raised by a single mother who thought me what it means to manage my financial situation

And this ladies and gents is why she's not getting elected and no tax like this will ever get passed by Congress. The common man thinks there's something wrong with taxing the mega-rich, they see themselves as people that one day might "achieve" as well so they'll never go for it. In fact, the most broke among us will fight tooth and nail against any such measures to protect the mega-rich....

 

[Drayonis]

lmao

Because the 50k a year person thinks that they'll become rich someday....

 

[gene cisco]

Why is having a stance that is anti-additional taxes, anti-government over-reach, and footnoting that this policy has failed in the past and the Democratic solution of "tax more" is lame and lazy, 'sucking him off'?

What the hell kind of incredulous, sophomoric conclusion is that?

Politicians are terrible at budgeting/spending. That's the number one fucking thing that should be addressed: wasteful spending. These corrupt, incompetent politicians spend money like high school kids and then come back with their hands out wanting more.

It's then people debating fucking taxes instead of better money management. I see the waste at the local level and it just gets worse as more people and more money is involved. Giving politicians more tax dollars is like giving a spoiled housewife more credit cards.

 

[Heist]

So the only taxes you agree with are small consumption based taxes? And i think you know what really gives a U.S. treasury note its value, and it ain't gold or the other stuff you mentioned.

What really gives the Treasury note its value outside of faith and some hard assets? Fiat currency is an imagination game.

Taxes: I'm generally fine with fair and reasonable consumption based taxes.
As for Income taxes, it is unreasonable at this point in our history to think Income taxes could be eliminated. Operating a government at the scale the US has grown to, with all the entitlements and programs that have been created, has made Income taxes a necessity.
But government also has a tax and spend problem. Tax more - spend more. Spend more - borrow more for un/underfunded programs - tax more to cover the debt ... RINSE / REPEAT.

Income taxes:
I've always advocated for a flattened, 4-step tax system that classifies all income as "income" with no delineation between Capital Gains and Ordinary Income.
Income is income - period. There's no need for the US income tax code to be over 3,000 pages or a tax form to be 20+ lines.
I'd be fine with income tax level breakouts as such: :
0 tax <$9,999 a year
10,000-$34,999 year, 15% - but you many only take the standard deduction. (0% tax on the first 9.9)
35,000-$149,999 - 20% - full deductions (10% on the first 24.9 of taxable income)
>$150,000 - 25% - full deductions (10% .... 20% at the corresponding limits).

 

[Heist]

Politicians are terrible at budgeting/spending. That's the number one fucking thing that should be addressed: wasteful spending. These corrupt, incompetent politicians spend money like high school kids and then come back with their hands out wanting more.

It's then people debating fucking taxes instead of better money management. I see the waste at the local level and it just gets worse as more people and more money is involved. Giving politicians more tax dollars is like giving a spoiled housewife more credit cards.

Hahahaha! I was writing the same damn sentiment in my response before I saw yours.
I'm glad someone else here realizes where root cause of the problem lies and yet no one has the courage to really take this on in a comprehensive manner or hold the line on spending.