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max-dawg said:i think by now that MOST people, with any comprehension of global economics, can NOW understand that we're fighting to save our economy... aka the "petro-dollar."
there was a recent meeting on the euro in europe because it had gotten TOO strong against the dollar and british pound....this shit is SUPER complex because there are GLOBAL implications for ALL involved... from norway to nigeria... venezuela to canada... saudi arabia to wall street.
max-dawg said:i think by now that MOST people, with any comprehension of global economics, can NOW understand that we're fighting to save our economy... aka the "petro-dollar."
there was a recent meeting on the euro in europe because it had gotten TOO strong against the dollar and british pound.
saddam was HUNG for his decision to trade oil based on the euro.![]()
iran is being vilified right now for their decision to do the same back in april 06... and they are STILL defying the WORLD by continuing to do so.
meanwhile, our economy is basically on pins & needles until this shit pans out... and if it takes war, there's gonna be war cause whitey ain't fixing to lose his one true love = $$$.
this shit is SUPER complex because there are GLOBAL implications for ALL involved... from norway to nigeria... venezuela to canada... saudi arabia to wall street.
eewwll said:I'm posting this in response the the Iraq-bin ladin connection article i read today...Really to make a point why that is irrelevent anyway. I think it is sad the people really don't understand why we ever went there in the first place. There are many important events that effect our everday lives that people just have little understanding of. Most people don't understand how the Patriot Act(s), HOmeland Security acts, etc effect our everyday lives and are a drastic invasion of privacy and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They only got passed because of the Chaos of the 9/11 and the war on "Terrorism"...but i digress. I hope this stimulates some nice conversation.
...but I think people really need to understand what this was all about. . I've been to Iraq and seen this first hand and I wasn't on a military assisgnment. I speak Arabic and went with an Iraqi Chaldean delegation..met with Brehmer's administration, other senators that were there and the whole nine yards. I was there in October and November. If you have more interest about what I saw..ask questions because I saw some interesting things...like when they bombed Wolfiwitz's hotel. It was across the Babylon river ..across from their hotel.I stayed at the Babylon Hotel. I went to old fedayeen camps..even ate at Saddam's favorite restaurant where he would do under the table oil deals with the French government...seen some interesting things. I left right before it got really out of control with the car bombings, etc.
This war in iraq was effectively about Oil and its impeding effect on the world's economy.(peak oil...read www.peakoil.org to learn more. But not for the reasons that people would think.This isn't about greedy corporations. It is much more serious than that. It is about Oil and the Euro.Without getting into a dissertation about the alarming U.S. national debt(12 trillion), the growing budget deficit, our growing consumption of oil, and the world's twindling supply of oil reserves, and the fact that all oil trading is done with the U.S. dollar, I can still l make a point that should be easily understood.
The world's reserve currency is the U.S. dollar. The U.S. is bankrupt but because the world currency is the U.S dollar and we have the printing press with the federal reserves..we can essentially print money at will in our currency and float it in the market to buy goods like Oil. We can create "fiat money" out of thin air because the world's reserve currency is our currency and we have a monopoly on its production. The world is pretty much financing our country. With the shrinking oil supply( search for peak oil), the fact the Iraq went to the euro to take payments and other countries were considering it( it would DEMOLISH our country)..If they convinced opec and other countries, which was happening, to go to the euro, our u.s. dollar is no longer the worlds reserve currency, the dollar would disastrously plummet as people would convert their U.S.dollars to Euros and convert their securities as well to Euro based securities..and because we are essentially a debtor nation and bankrupt and we don't have a printing press on euro. We could not buy oil.
We don't have the money. We just print fiat money through the federal reserve system (create from Jeckyll Isle) to finance everything. With our 12 trillion in debt, huge oil appetite, etc etc...you are talking about making the great depression look like disneyland(for a case study on what happens when you can't buy oil..look at what happened to north korea). Essentially we would have to announce bankrupty because of our oil appetite and our astronomical debt load which we will essentially never be able to repay anyway(but the position of the U.S. dollars is the only thing that keep us afloat..we haven't been the worlds economic superpower for quite some time..it is a world economy)..the country would come to standstill from inflation and increased interests rates because of high oil prices..We would go into insolvency.Iraq has the second largest proven oil reserves and was venerable because of Saddam. We had to stop him from taking transactions on the euro and convincing other countries to do so. Opec would love nothing more than to convert to the Euro. Every dollar they receive and store in U.S. currency continues to lose a tremendous amount of value because of the continuous drag of the U.S. dollar. However, no one has the power to go against the will of our military. Challengers only have to think of Saddam as an illustration of our will if it goes unopposed. The U.S.(neo conservs are in power) could give two shits about Saddam and his internal politics, disastrous human rights policy, weapons of mass destruction ( he is one of many of dictactors with the same record). Saddam was strategic to a movement that has a belief in the statement "the ends justifies the means". . This administration and the neoconservatives are all student of Nikkolo Machievelli, the man who penned the phrase. Only need to know his history to understand the type of element that is currently in power. These statements aren't speculation but verifiable facts. To understand the elements of the current policy in regards to Iraq is to see that this war was inevitable and planned by this administration. 9/11 was the disaster that the needed to implement this plan under the tag of a war against "terrorism". To understand the goal of this administration is to understand what our policy will be in Iraq and in the middle east in general and for Israel in general. One can easily determine what will happen and why...makes it very easy to understand why we picked a character like Chalibi for leadership and one doesn't need to media to understand why he has been disenfranchised.
So the reasons why we are in Iraq:
1. If the world began using the Euro to trade in oil our country would lose economic control and Saddam was pushing this.
2. Iraq has the worlds second largest oil reserves in the new era of PEAK OIL (you can do a search on google to learn about this monumental event in the world's history.
3. We needed to have a democratic government in the heart of this part of the world because of the coming world's oil crisis.
This is about the survival of America as the World's SUPERPOWER. That is what these people want to remain.
There was NO CONNECTION between 9/11 and Iraq. There we NO weapons of mass destruction. WE KNEW this and just used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. We needed the world trade center bombing to do this.
Someone asked my with knowing that the U.S. ecomony was crashing and I was president and Iraq was the solution..would I have made the war on Iraq? My response was this:This is my issue with going to War though it may end being something that almost seemed necessary.
I don't believe that the ends justifies the mean..i.e...you can't be immoral in the name of morality..that constitutes a contradiction of terms. Contradictions don't exist. If you check one of your premises you will find that one of them is wrong, but that is a philophical argument.
But no. The problem is with our ever growing state of our mixed economy. We are moving more away from capitalism and more towards fascism. Iraq just buys time.
Going to Iraq is like trying to cure a dying tree by examining the leaves. You need to examine the roots. Our problem is the lose of value of the U.S. dollar. We need to get off the unconstitutional quasi public-private institution of the Federal Reserve System. It is the #1 problem with our economy and has contributed nothing bury us in debt from the day of its inception. It is virus that will lead to our death. We need to have government issued currency. Government issued currency was our constitution right. If you don't understand the nature of the federal reserve, you should do some research.
Number 2...cut the increasing government spending deficit. Again, the only way this is possible because we have access to unlimited fiat money through the federal reserve.
Begin to clean the system of non essential government instituations that are rooted in socialism. Essentially everything began with Hoover and then extended with Nixon. Our government is drastically oversized.
Place economists in the key positions that are educated in Austrian economists(especially that of Ludwig von Mises). Our country has been lead astray by Keynesians.
The U.S. hasn't been the world economic power for quite sometime now. It is a world economy, with Europe and now India becoming very strong because it is a knowledge center. Someone mentioned China being a power to be watched. The Yen is undervalued now, but china faces HUGE problems moving forward..i.e..it has over 1 billion people, but only 1.2 million have college educations, privatization issues, etc.
But, Iraq is not a solution. We still don't know how that situation will play out. Iraq will NEVER be a democracy..NEVER. at best it will be a Republic. However, at this point, we don't know if we can accomplish our puppet government so it may all have been for nothing.
badmutherfukr said:As a u.s. soldier i must support the chain of command. Iraq is very touchy subject. The current situation in iraq we have to insure stability with training of iraqi security forces. Until they can maintain the country and curtail the sectarian violence we will remain. If we pull our forces out the country will fall apart. We are still facing opposition in afghanistan with the tailban. We cannot look to engage iran....too many fronts
badmutherfukr said:As a u.s. soldier i must support the chain of command. Iraq is very touchy subject. The current situation in iraq we have to insure stability with training of iraqi security forces. Until they can maintain the country and curtail the sectarian violence we will remain. If we pull our forces out the country will fall apart. We are still facing opposition in afghanistan with the tailban. We cannot look to engage iran....too many fronts
S_a_b_o_q said:Manifest Destiny
I feel the true plan is to have as many american G.I.'s impregnate as many Iraq woman as possible.
Regarding the part I highlighted in bold above: What you're saying is that the invasion of Iraq was justified, purely and simply, because of the people who died on 9-11 -- without any connection of any kind or character whatsoever, to Iraq. I agree that this country has to stand strong against "Legitimate" threats but, contrary to your view, I think the country stands quicker to fall chasing the expensive and misguided dreams of those who wish to use our precious resources, men and materiel to reshape the world in their own image and pocketbooks.nittie said:Whether we agree with the war or not over 3000 Americans died on 9-11. Islamic terrorist hijacked American airliners and flew them into our buildings, killed our people and almost ruined our economy. It's clear Bush manipulated the facts for war but what was the alternative. America can't allow extremist to do whatever they want to and get away with a slap on the wrist. Besides Bush had overwhelming support for invading Iraq. His performance during the war is inexcusable, our troops deserve better, but if this country doesn't show strength and resolve against Islamist this country can end up in the same position Russia is in today, a former superpower.
Regarding the part I highlighted in bold above: What you're saying is that the invasion of Iraq was justified, purely and simply, because of the people who died on 9-11 -- without any connection of any kind or character whatsoever, to Iraq. I agree that this country has to stand strong against "Legitimate" threats but, contrary to your view, I think the country stands quicker to fall chasing the expensive and misguided dreams of those who wish to use our precious resources, men and materiel to reshape the world in their own image and pocketbooks.
QueEx said:Seems to me nittie, your point is the invasion of Iraq was justified: (1) because so many people died on 9-11 despite any credible evidence, whatsoever, that Iraq had any connection with 9-11; and (2) because we needed to "re-shape the Middle East" by force. Do I have it right now ???
QueEx
Brother,nittie said:I'm saying 9-11 changed things. The invasion wouldn't be possible without it. Saddam's previous crimes made Iraq a viable target. There were other options, we could have stopped with outing the Taliban and focused on the Palestinian situation but Iraq was the best option for establishing democracy in the region.