HBO's Westworld (Official) Season 4 discussion thread (Full trailer 6/16/22) drops 6/26/22
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she thought it was gonna be one way....
Westworld Confirmed Something We've All Suspected
While the question of whether the show is taking places in two different timelines remains unknown, the other big theory—that Bernard (Jeffrey Wright) was secretly a host—is now fact, just as many of us suspected from the beginning. And while the show finally confirming one of the biggest theories was important, it also means that we have to question everythingwe’ve seen from his point of view.
I think I’ve been remiss in the past few weeks for not calling out Jeffrey Wright’s acting. Anthony Hopkins as Ford, Thandie Newton as Maeve, and Evan Rachel Wood as Dolores have been getting a lot of notice for their much flashier acting work. But Wright’s been a steady presence this whole time, with Bernard’s work acting as competence porn and the bits and pieces of his personal life giving everything he does a tinge sadness. Plus, he’s usually been the one receiving Hopkins’ big, weird speeches, and his incredulousness at them has been ours.
This week, Wright outdid himself. Rewatch that last scene again. In the background of Theresa (I’m going to miss you, Sidse Babett Knudsen!) and Ford’s confrontation, his movements are subtly glitching. The complete change in his body language when Ford has Bernard kill Theresa is the kind of silent acting that’s hard to pull off. He was really good last night.
I was upset to discover that Bernard was a host, and I don’t know why. The whole show has been built on making us sympathize with the hosts and be disgusted with the humans. So the fact that the “human” we most identified with turned out to be a host shouldn’t be surprising at all. And I shouldn’t be upset, because this show has continually proved that he’s still a person. But I was still really upset that Bernard wasn’t “real.” Even though he’s not! None of this is!
This is Westworld in a nutshell: it wants you to examine why you react to stories in the way you do. I think the reason it was upsetting was because, as much as the show has made the point that the hosts are real people, it’s also made clear that they are being taken advantage of. And we like Bernard, so we don’t want him that vulnerable.
Forget Billy (Jimmi Simpson), the obvious audience avatar for guests in the par; Bernard’s been our main point of view character for the last seven episodes. Most of the things we’ve learned about how the park works and how it was founded we learned through Bernard. We now know he can’t see the things that would hurt him, so now everything we saw from his perspective is actually in question. The big one, of course, being the photo Ford showed Bernard of a younger Ford and “Arnold”—which last week ended up looking a lot like Ford’s robofather.
So, we still don’t know if Ford lied about the photo because the real one would freak Bernard out, or if Bernard saw something that wasn’t there because of his programming, or if Ford lied about who the robot is (I think this is the least likely option, for what it’s worth), or if Arnold and Ford’s dad were actually the same person. We don’t know how much Bernard and Elsie actually found out or what happened to her—although there’s the horrific possibility that Bernard killed her and doesn’t remember it.
Bernard’s big reveal wasn’t the only thing to happen last night. As usual, most of the forward momentum happened in the corporate plot, which is by far the most the interesting one. Jumping back to the beginning of the episode, Charlotte Hale (Tessa Thompson) is there because the board wants Ford to be gently pushed out of Westworld, because he could destroy the park in anger if they tried to force him out. Oh, that’s what the transmitting data was, by the way—Ford’s made himself invaluable by refusing to let any of the data about the hosts and the park leave park grounds. At the behest of Delos, Theresa was sending it out to be stored.
Since the executives can’t blame Ford for the problems in the park, they’re blamed on Bernard instead and Theresa fires him—which the reveal makes absurd. He can’t leave! He literally can’t; the techs tell Maeve that hosts physically can’t leave the park in this episode. Plus, ironically, picking on Bernard forces Ford’s hand and that’s how things go wrong for Theresa.
It’s very bluntly stated this episode that Delos doesn’t care about the park—the park is just what they let Ford do in exchange for owning the code and the designs of the hosts, although we still don’t know exactly what Delos’ ambitions are. I’ve heard the theory that they want the hosts as a slave race—but robots who can think and feel are the opposite of what you’d want in that situation. They wouldn’t need to be this sophisticated for that. They could want to make duplicates of powerful people for decoy purposes or coup purposes (I could see a use for a version of someone rich and/or powerful who was totally under your command). Rich people putting their minds in unkillable bodies feels close to what’s going on, in my mind.
Part of the display that Theresa and Charlotte put on to fire Bernard involves Maeve’s prostitute friend (the only one we see her talk to for any length of time). Her name is Clementine (Angela Sarafyan) and she is put in a glass box and attacked by a host made to look like a tech (this part was not subtle foreshadowing). Then, they tried to wipe her memory. Apparently, the result of the last minute code from the premiere was that things couldn’t be wiped. And Clementine “remembered” the attack and trying to get revenge on the tech when she was restarted and saw him. Clementine is ordered retired, since her use as an example of the bug also meant she was useless as a host.
And, again, here’s where Bernard’s unreliability as a narrator comes in. He tells Theresa that what they said was happening wasn’t and he could tell they’d made up that code for the purposes of the demonstration. As part of their “sacrifice” of him and to give the board an explanation. I think he’s telling the truth that the whole thing was rigged, but only the writers know for sure.
That means poor Clementine is lobotomized in front of Maeve, who has used her new tech friends to try to find her. That inspires Maeve to try a jailbreak. I would not bet against her. Maeve is the queen here.
Her jailbreak and the Ford/Delos battle (plus the Arnold question) is the best part of this show. The park narratives, both the Man in Black and Billy and Dolores are tied for a distant third.
Assorted Musings
While the question of whether the show is taking places in two different timelines remains unknown, the other big theory—that Bernard (Jeffrey Wright) was secretly a host—is now fact, just as many of us suspected from the beginning. And while the show finally confirming one of the biggest theories was important, it also means that we have to question everythingwe’ve seen from his point of view.
I think I’ve been remiss in the past few weeks for not calling out Jeffrey Wright’s acting. Anthony Hopkins as Ford, Thandie Newton as Maeve, and Evan Rachel Wood as Dolores have been getting a lot of notice for their much flashier acting work. But Wright’s been a steady presence this whole time, with Bernard’s work acting as competence porn and the bits and pieces of his personal life giving everything he does a tinge sadness. Plus, he’s usually been the one receiving Hopkins’ big, weird speeches, and his incredulousness at them has been ours.
This week, Wright outdid himself. Rewatch that last scene again. In the background of Theresa (I’m going to miss you, Sidse Babett Knudsen!) and Ford’s confrontation, his movements are subtly glitching. The complete change in his body language when Ford has Bernard kill Theresa is the kind of silent acting that’s hard to pull off. He was really good last night.
I was upset to discover that Bernard was a host, and I don’t know why. The whole show has been built on making us sympathize with the hosts and be disgusted with the humans. So the fact that the “human” we most identified with turned out to be a host shouldn’t be surprising at all. And I shouldn’t be upset, because this show has continually proved that he’s still a person. But I was still really upset that Bernard wasn’t “real.” Even though he’s not! None of this is!
This is Westworld in a nutshell: it wants you to examine why you react to stories in the way you do. I think the reason it was upsetting was because, as much as the show has made the point that the hosts are real people, it’s also made clear that they are being taken advantage of. And we like Bernard, so we don’t want him that vulnerable.
Forget Billy (Jimmi Simpson), the obvious audience avatar for guests in the par; Bernard’s been our main point of view character for the last seven episodes. Most of the things we’ve learned about how the park works and how it was founded we learned through Bernard. We now know he can’t see the things that would hurt him, so now everything we saw from his perspective is actually in question. The big one, of course, being the photo Ford showed Bernard of a younger Ford and “Arnold”—which last week ended up looking a lot like Ford’s robofather.
So, we still don’t know if Ford lied about the photo because the real one would freak Bernard out, or if Bernard saw something that wasn’t there because of his programming, or if Ford lied about who the robot is (I think this is the least likely option, for what it’s worth), or if Arnold and Ford’s dad were actually the same person. We don’t know how much Bernard and Elsie actually found out or what happened to her—although there’s the horrific possibility that Bernard killed her and doesn’t remember it.
Bernard’s big reveal wasn’t the only thing to happen last night. As usual, most of the forward momentum happened in the corporate plot, which is by far the most the interesting one. Jumping back to the beginning of the episode, Charlotte Hale (Tessa Thompson) is there because the board wants Ford to be gently pushed out of Westworld, because he could destroy the park in anger if they tried to force him out. Oh, that’s what the transmitting data was, by the way—Ford’s made himself invaluable by refusing to let any of the data about the hosts and the park leave park grounds. At the behest of Delos, Theresa was sending it out to be stored.
Since the executives can’t blame Ford for the problems in the park, they’re blamed on Bernard instead and Theresa fires him—which the reveal makes absurd. He can’t leave! He literally can’t; the techs tell Maeve that hosts physically can’t leave the park in this episode. Plus, ironically, picking on Bernard forces Ford’s hand and that’s how things go wrong for Theresa.
It’s very bluntly stated this episode that Delos doesn’t care about the park—the park is just what they let Ford do in exchange for owning the code and the designs of the hosts, although we still don’t know exactly what Delos’ ambitions are. I’ve heard the theory that they want the hosts as a slave race—but robots who can think and feel are the opposite of what you’d want in that situation. They wouldn’t need to be this sophisticated for that. They could want to make duplicates of powerful people for decoy purposes or coup purposes (I could see a use for a version of someone rich and/or powerful who was totally under your command). Rich people putting their minds in unkillable bodies feels close to what’s going on, in my mind.
Part of the display that Theresa and Charlotte put on to fire Bernard involves Maeve’s prostitute friend (the only one we see her talk to for any length of time). Her name is Clementine (Angela Sarafyan) and she is put in a glass box and attacked by a host made to look like a tech (this part was not subtle foreshadowing). Then, they tried to wipe her memory. Apparently, the result of the last minute code from the premiere was that things couldn’t be wiped. And Clementine “remembered” the attack and trying to get revenge on the tech when she was restarted and saw him. Clementine is ordered retired, since her use as an example of the bug also meant she was useless as a host.
And, again, here’s where Bernard’s unreliability as a narrator comes in. He tells Theresa that what they said was happening wasn’t and he could tell they’d made up that code for the purposes of the demonstration. As part of their “sacrifice” of him and to give the board an explanation. I think he’s telling the truth that the whole thing was rigged, but only the writers know for sure.
That means poor Clementine is lobotomized in front of Maeve, who has used her new tech friends to try to find her. That inspires Maeve to try a jailbreak. I would not bet against her. Maeve is the queen here.
Her jailbreak and the Ford/Delos battle (plus the Arnold question) is the best part of this show. The park narratives, both the Man in Black and Billy and Dolores are tied for a distant third.
Assorted Musings
- Until Billy and Dolores’ plot starts to have a more obvious connection to the larger forces at work, I’m not going to care. I will say that Billy’s description of what the park is for echoed Ford’s. And that I think we’re supposed to see Dolores choosing to have sex, rather than being raped as usual, as part of her journey to autonomy. I wished I cared about her nearly as much as I do about Maeve’s similar, but far more active, journey.
- Oh, I will also add that their destination being in Dolores’ dreams andbeing a huge installation on par with what Ford’s building might be a notch against the two timelines theory. This plays like Dolores and Billy playing out part of the final scenario Ford’s been building.
- Ford’s secret lab under the house in the park appears to be where Bernard and Dolores were having their conversations. I don’t know what that means other than Bernard was used to help Ford program what he wants into the old hosts.
- There was a new host being built in that secret lab. Who is it?
me too
Westworld producers on that huge reveal and brutal scene
This piece contains massive spoilers about Sunday night’s episode of Westworld
HBO’s Westworld had a seismic shake-up Sunday night, impacting several major characters. First, the show’s likable chief programmer Bernard Lowe (Jeffrey Wright) was revealed to secretly be a robotic host. Not only that, but Ford then ordered Bernard to violently murder his ex-lover, Delos corporate quality assurance head Theresa Cullen (Sidse Babett Knudsen), to halt an attempt to push Ford into retirement. Plus, there was also a shocking scene where host Clementine Pennyfeather (Angela Sarafyan) was brutally beaten as part of a demo, and then had her personality drilled out of her. Below showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy give us the lowdown on episode 7, “Trompe L’Oeil.” Also see our interview with Westworld star Jeffrey Wright where he gives his thoughts on the Bernard reveal.
Entertainment Weekly: At what point did you know that Bernard was a host? Was that from the very beginning or evolve along the way?
Jonathan Nolan: Bernard has been a host from the beginning. But we were careful with Jeffrey.
Lisa Joy: We were careful with Jeffrey because we wanted him to be fully lovable and human and believable, but also to understand that underneath he’s playing something else. We let him in pretty early on. He’s such a skilled actor he was able to play a robot thinking he’s a human very well, he’s playing it on a couple different levels at the same time, and absolutely brilliant about it. We didn’t want him to feel like we pulled the rug out from under him. I’m going to be so excited when this episode airs because it’s so tricky for me when doing press to not give away spoilers about Jeffrey’s character.
How did Jeffrey react when you told him?
Joy: He’s such a wonderful, talented man, and we sat him down and we were going through it, “This is all going to happen, and, by the way, you’re a robot.” He just sat there for a second like: “Oh. Ohhh. All right then.” I’ve been such a fan of Jeffrey for so many years and always dreamt of working with him. And when he first came on board I told him, “Jeffrey, I know what you’re capable of, and goddamnit, I’m gong to use all of it.” And that’s our plan.
It’s this double punch reveal because you learn about him and at the same time lose Theresa Cullen in the same scene – and Ford has him commit this act Bernard would never consciously do. You compound the reveal of his nature by having him do something that horrifies us.
Joy: It horrifies us, and it horrifies him. It’s a betrayal of everything that he — as a man he thought he was — believed in. He had real feelings for Theresa. It’s meant to make the sadness and the horror of his manipulation all the more real because it has such costs.
Ford echoes the board rep Charlotte telling Cullen that there needs to be a “blood sacrifice,” which I believe was only said between the two of them. So is the whole place bugged or is there something else I’m missing there?
Joy: What you might be missing is there was a host on the bed behind them when she said that — Hector. Ford has access to that kind of stuff.
Oh, that’s right! Of course. And I take it the reason Ford’s father-host does not respond to other people’s voice commands and is all aggressive to Bernard when he came into the cabin last week because he partly serves the purpose of keeping people away from the secret lab?
Nolan: That’s part of it. That area that they’re operating in is one the hosts are programmed to avoid. And given the scope and scale of the park, it’s one where they won’t come around to, if at all. Technicians are maneuvered away from that area. It’s a bit of a black hole in the park. It’s a place where Ford can go and get away from it all and spend time with his family. That those hosts are not programmed to respond to anyone but Ford speaks again to the insidious level of control that he’s built into the park from the beginning. It’s wheels within wheels. Like we’ve established the techs can control the hosts with voice commands, but it turns out that’s not necessarily the case — it’s only because Ford allows them to.
I also want to ask about Clementine in this episode. The scene where she gets beaten is going to get an strong reaction from viewers, I suspect.
Joy: For me, it’s one of those scenes I find the most emotional this season. Not only because this scene where they have one host abuse her — it’s so harrowing — but weirdly I get more emotional when she starts beating him back, because I’m like, “Kill everyone, Clementine, kill everyone!” And when she’s stopped in her tracks I get so mad. And Angela in this scene, within the plot of this series, they would have to pick somebody [for the rigged demo] you would never see coming. That’s how you sell the idea the hosts are dangerous. She’s the most innocent, the most loving of all of them. She’s like this delicate bunny rabbit. And Angela is like this gentle, kind, etherial creature with an incredible sense of movement and grace. And when you take all the power and intelligence — both in an actor and in her character — and then you unleash it, you get to see a wonderful scene.
Then she’s apparently lobotomized. We’re so used to the hosts coming back to life over and over again. Does this mean Clementine has been “killed off”?
Nolan: It’s a little more complicated than that. They’re physically removing part of her personality. It’s like when the NSA has a hard drive they want to get rid of. They don’t just erase it, they drill holes in it. The mind of the hosts are organized similar to a human mind, with that frontal lobe containing most of the code for her personality. So the person we know as Clementine is largely gone.
We see the train carrying Dolores and William and it’s going on and on and the park is starting to seem impossibly vast. They talk about how the park’s biggest value is in the code but I can’t help but wonder, especially since this is set in the future, wouldn’t the biggest value be in the real estate. Will it make sense to us at some point how large this place is?
Nolan: If you drive across the Western United States — and I don’t think that’s where the park is located — but if you do that … we were pretty rigorous about the scope and scale of it, about size of the park. It’s within 500 square miles. I think Ted Turner owns that much in Mexico. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a park this size would exist here in America.
Finally, a couple of host-mechanics questions I’ve wondering about, that seem like they might be increasingly relevant: Can you say how are the hosts powered? Like do they need to recharge? Do they eat?
Nolan: Their construction and their power source is something we’re really going to get into during season 2. So we’d like to keep that mysterious. They’re closer to biological than they are to mechanical, but they don’t suffer brain death the same way we do. They’re largely indistinguishable from a human beings, but their brains don’t require oxygen — which opens up interesting possibilities. Their brains are not as fragile as ours. On one hand, their cognition is controllable and malleable, but on a structural level they can’t be killed in the same way you and I can. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a host. Season 2 we’ll be exploring more the nuts and bolts of what they are— as the hosts themselves are trying to understand.
This piece contains massive spoilers about Sunday night’s episode of Westworld
HBO’s Westworld had a seismic shake-up Sunday night, impacting several major characters. First, the show’s likable chief programmer Bernard Lowe (Jeffrey Wright) was revealed to secretly be a robotic host. Not only that, but Ford then ordered Bernard to violently murder his ex-lover, Delos corporate quality assurance head Theresa Cullen (Sidse Babett Knudsen), to halt an attempt to push Ford into retirement. Plus, there was also a shocking scene where host Clementine Pennyfeather (Angela Sarafyan) was brutally beaten as part of a demo, and then had her personality drilled out of her. Below showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy give us the lowdown on episode 7, “Trompe L’Oeil.” Also see our interview with Westworld star Jeffrey Wright where he gives his thoughts on the Bernard reveal.
Entertainment Weekly: At what point did you know that Bernard was a host? Was that from the very beginning or evolve along the way?
Jonathan Nolan: Bernard has been a host from the beginning. But we were careful with Jeffrey.
Lisa Joy: We were careful with Jeffrey because we wanted him to be fully lovable and human and believable, but also to understand that underneath he’s playing something else. We let him in pretty early on. He’s such a skilled actor he was able to play a robot thinking he’s a human very well, he’s playing it on a couple different levels at the same time, and absolutely brilliant about it. We didn’t want him to feel like we pulled the rug out from under him. I’m going to be so excited when this episode airs because it’s so tricky for me when doing press to not give away spoilers about Jeffrey’s character.
How did Jeffrey react when you told him?
Joy: He’s such a wonderful, talented man, and we sat him down and we were going through it, “This is all going to happen, and, by the way, you’re a robot.” He just sat there for a second like: “Oh. Ohhh. All right then.” I’ve been such a fan of Jeffrey for so many years and always dreamt of working with him. And when he first came on board I told him, “Jeffrey, I know what you’re capable of, and goddamnit, I’m gong to use all of it.” And that’s our plan.
It’s this double punch reveal because you learn about him and at the same time lose Theresa Cullen in the same scene – and Ford has him commit this act Bernard would never consciously do. You compound the reveal of his nature by having him do something that horrifies us.
Joy: It horrifies us, and it horrifies him. It’s a betrayal of everything that he — as a man he thought he was — believed in. He had real feelings for Theresa. It’s meant to make the sadness and the horror of his manipulation all the more real because it has such costs.
Ford echoes the board rep Charlotte telling Cullen that there needs to be a “blood sacrifice,” which I believe was only said between the two of them. So is the whole place bugged or is there something else I’m missing there?
Joy: What you might be missing is there was a host on the bed behind them when she said that — Hector. Ford has access to that kind of stuff.
Oh, that’s right! Of course. And I take it the reason Ford’s father-host does not respond to other people’s voice commands and is all aggressive to Bernard when he came into the cabin last week because he partly serves the purpose of keeping people away from the secret lab?
Nolan: That’s part of it. That area that they’re operating in is one the hosts are programmed to avoid. And given the scope and scale of the park, it’s one where they won’t come around to, if at all. Technicians are maneuvered away from that area. It’s a bit of a black hole in the park. It’s a place where Ford can go and get away from it all and spend time with his family. That those hosts are not programmed to respond to anyone but Ford speaks again to the insidious level of control that he’s built into the park from the beginning. It’s wheels within wheels. Like we’ve established the techs can control the hosts with voice commands, but it turns out that’s not necessarily the case — it’s only because Ford allows them to.
I also want to ask about Clementine in this episode. The scene where she gets beaten is going to get an strong reaction from viewers, I suspect.
Joy: For me, it’s one of those scenes I find the most emotional this season. Not only because this scene where they have one host abuse her — it’s so harrowing — but weirdly I get more emotional when she starts beating him back, because I’m like, “Kill everyone, Clementine, kill everyone!” And when she’s stopped in her tracks I get so mad. And Angela in this scene, within the plot of this series, they would have to pick somebody [for the rigged demo] you would never see coming. That’s how you sell the idea the hosts are dangerous. She’s the most innocent, the most loving of all of them. She’s like this delicate bunny rabbit. And Angela is like this gentle, kind, etherial creature with an incredible sense of movement and grace. And when you take all the power and intelligence — both in an actor and in her character — and then you unleash it, you get to see a wonderful scene.
Then she’s apparently lobotomized. We’re so used to the hosts coming back to life over and over again. Does this mean Clementine has been “killed off”?
Nolan: It’s a little more complicated than that. They’re physically removing part of her personality. It’s like when the NSA has a hard drive they want to get rid of. They don’t just erase it, they drill holes in it. The mind of the hosts are organized similar to a human mind, with that frontal lobe containing most of the code for her personality. So the person we know as Clementine is largely gone.
We see the train carrying Dolores and William and it’s going on and on and the park is starting to seem impossibly vast. They talk about how the park’s biggest value is in the code but I can’t help but wonder, especially since this is set in the future, wouldn’t the biggest value be in the real estate. Will it make sense to us at some point how large this place is?
Nolan: If you drive across the Western United States — and I don’t think that’s where the park is located — but if you do that … we were pretty rigorous about the scope and scale of it, about size of the park. It’s within 500 square miles. I think Ted Turner owns that much in Mexico. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a park this size would exist here in America.
Finally, a couple of host-mechanics questions I’ve wondering about, that seem like they might be increasingly relevant: Can you say how are the hosts powered? Like do they need to recharge? Do they eat?
Nolan: Their construction and their power source is something we’re really going to get into during season 2. So we’d like to keep that mysterious. They’re closer to biological than they are to mechanical, but they don’t suffer brain death the same way we do. They’re largely indistinguishable from a human beings, but their brains don’t require oxygen — which opens up interesting possibilities. Their brains are not as fragile as ours. On one hand, their cognition is controllable and malleable, but on a structural level they can’t be killed in the same way you and I can. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a host. Season 2 we’ll be exploring more the nuts and bolts of what they are— as the hosts themselves are trying to understand.
I want to pigback on my theory about Bernard actually being Arnold.
I'm now leaning on the theory that the conversations with Bernard and Deloris at the house are occuring in the earliest timeline of the show and what we have been seeing... is actually Arnold's conversation with Deloris. That would explain why we are seeing Bernard in the room earlier, but in this episode it appears that it's the first time that he has seen it. It also explains why the room looks so empty during the earlier conversations. It would explain Bernard/Arnold's drive to create new intelligent life through experimentation with Deloris and it would explain why Deloris was one of the few hosts to see Arnold's death. This timeline would obviously be before Deloris met William. In the end... I think Deloris's inner desire to find this maze is going to end up turning into another huge loop.
Based on this.... I'm going to call it that the Bernard that we are seeing is actually modeled after Arnold and that Arnold also lost his son and became estranged with his wife due to his obsession with the park.
But I'm saying this with a big.....hmmmmmmm... because the preview for next week's episode made it appear that Deloris actually made it the church steeple that's the same steeple that appeared to be underground when Ford walked by it and is the same location that he is also building this new narrative. So what if.... and this is a huge what if....... What if Deloris & William.... isn't in the past, what if it is the Future timeline. I know some would point out comments made by William's boy about the company looking to buy the park because of the financial mess that it is end, but who is to say that the company isn't dealing with Financial problems in the future. I'm not even 20% behind this theory.... but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm now leaning on the theory that the conversations with Bernard and Deloris at the house are occuring in the earliest timeline of the show and what we have been seeing... is actually Arnold's conversation with Deloris. That would explain why we are seeing Bernard in the room earlier, but in this episode it appears that it's the first time that he has seen it. It also explains why the room looks so empty during the earlier conversations. It would explain Bernard/Arnold's drive to create new intelligent life through experimentation with Deloris and it would explain why Deloris was one of the few hosts to see Arnold's death. This timeline would obviously be before Deloris met William. In the end... I think Deloris's inner desire to find this maze is going to end up turning into another huge loop.
Based on this.... I'm going to call it that the Bernard that we are seeing is actually modeled after Arnold and that Arnold also lost his son and became estranged with his wife due to his obsession with the park.
But I'm saying this with a big.....hmmmmmmm... because the preview for next week's episode made it appear that Deloris actually made it the church steeple that's the same steeple that appeared to be underground when Ford walked by it and is the same location that he is also building this new narrative. So what if.... and this is a huge what if....... What if Deloris & William.... isn't in the past, what if it is the Future timeline. I know some would point out comments made by William's boy about the company looking to buy the park because of the financial mess that it is end, but who is to say that the company isn't dealing with Financial problems in the future. I'm not even 20% behind this theory.... but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm re-watching Episode 2... and I can't believe that I didn't fucking see it, but I guess back then I wouldn't have reason too.
That definitely isn't Bernard that was talking to Deloris in the room. Everything about Jefferey Wright's performance in that conversation was different. He wasn't wearing glasses. His manner of dress was different. He displayed way more confidence in his tone and his posture. The Bernard that we have seen with Ford and the others, even his staff.... has always appeared to be Sub servant to everyone. This Bernard is different. I'm now upgrading my theory to 95% certain that Bernald is based on Arnold. Remember how Ford tweaked his family to a version that he wanted to see. I think he did the same thing to Bernald. He tweaked Bernald to conform to the version of Arnold that he missed.
That definitely isn't Bernard that was talking to Deloris in the room. Everything about Jefferey Wright's performance in that conversation was different. He wasn't wearing glasses. His manner of dress was different. He displayed way more confidence in his tone and his posture. The Bernard that we have seen with Ford and the others, even his staff.... has always appeared to be Sub servant to everyone. This Bernard is different. I'm now upgrading my theory to 95% certain that Bernald is based on Arnold. Remember how Ford tweaked his family to a version that he wanted to see. I think he did the same thing to Bernald. He tweaked Bernald to conform to the version of Arnold that he missed.
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HBO Renews ‘Westworld,’ ‘Divorce,’ ‘Insecure’ for Second Seasons
HBO has given second season pickups to its trio of new fall series — fantasy drama “Westworld” and comedies “Insecure” and “Divorce.”
The renewals are a welcome relief for HBO and its new programming president, Casey Bloys, after a tough year in which HBO suffered a big miss with the period drama “Vinyl,” amid internal changes. “Westworld” in particular had a lot riding on its success as HBO looks to restock its drama series bench with its tentpole original “Game of Thrones” now heading into its final two seasons, starting next summer.
“It’s fantastic to have a broad-based cultural and ratings hit to build from,” Bloys said of “Westworld.” “That’s a great, great luxury.”
“Westworld” has quickly developed a fanatical following among viewers who parse every detail of the show described as a puzzle-within-a-puzzle set in a resort where humanized robots cater to the out-there whims of high-end patrons. Bloys said the fan obsession that “Westworld” has generated organically through social media and podcasts has been a pleasant surprise. He makes a point of scrolling through Twitter when the show airs live on Sunday nights. Bloys admits he’s gained insights about the show’s many mysteries by following the real-time detective work of fans.
“The level of detail that people devote to thinking about it is impressive,” he said, citing the intricate mythology crafted by “Westworld” creators/showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy.
For all three shows, Bloys said the HBO creative team is gratified that the new offerings have found their niche with fans and critics. “Westworld” has been an unqualified success, averaging 11.7 million viewers per episode to date when reruns, VOD and streaming airings are factored in. “Divorce” has averaged 4.4 million viewers by the same measure while “Insecure” has averaged 3.2 million.
“All three (series) have done exactly what I’d hoped in terms of connecting with audiences and raising the questions the creators set out to raise,” said Bloys.
All three shows were renewed for 10 episodes. Bloys said there are no plans for major casting moves or showrunner changes — another welcome sign of stability.
After “Westworld” wraps, HBO will field two new limited series — “The Young Pope,” starting Jan. 15, and the Reese Witherspoon-Nicole Kidman starrer “Big Little Lies,” which is targeted for February. After that, the next new drama series on deck will be David Simon’s period piece “The Deuce.”
Bloys called “Insecure” and “Divorce” two “great building blocks” for HBO’s comedy slate anchored by “Veep,” “Silicon Valley” and the upcoming final season of “Girls.” “Divorce” was a win for HBO in bringing “Sex and the City” star Sarah Jessica Parker back to its air. “Insecure’s” Issa Rae has won raves for tackling the thorny issues of race and gender relations at a time when both subjects are much in the headlines. “The social interaction on ‘Insecure’ is really strong,” Bloys said.
Other HBO programming questions Bloys addressed:
Jon Stewart: The former “Daily Show” host is still working on an effort to produce short-form animated content on topical issues for HBO’s various platforms. Stewart had been expected to have a presence on HBO during the 2016 presidential race. Bloys said his “hope” is that some material will be ready by the first quarter of next year. “He is really putting together a whole animation studio. It’s not a small endeavor,” he said.
“The Night Of” and “True Detective”: The creators of both limited series continue to bat around ideas for new installments but there’s nothing firm yet for either show. “When they get something that’s exciting to them, we will happily do another season,” Bloys said.
“We’re thrilled that the saga of Westworld will continue for another season,” said co-creators and showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy. “During the lengthy journey to the screen, our incredibly talented actors, staff and crew became a family, and we look forward to the privilege of continuing this experience with them.”
“Westworld” is produced by Kilter Films, Bad Robot Productions and Jerry Weintraub Productions in association with Warner Bros. Television. Along with Nolan and Joy, executive producers are J.J. Abrams, Jerry Weintraub and Bryan Burk.
HBO has given second season pickups to its trio of new fall series — fantasy drama “Westworld” and comedies “Insecure” and “Divorce.”
The renewals are a welcome relief for HBO and its new programming president, Casey Bloys, after a tough year in which HBO suffered a big miss with the period drama “Vinyl,” amid internal changes. “Westworld” in particular had a lot riding on its success as HBO looks to restock its drama series bench with its tentpole original “Game of Thrones” now heading into its final two seasons, starting next summer.
“It’s fantastic to have a broad-based cultural and ratings hit to build from,” Bloys said of “Westworld.” “That’s a great, great luxury.”
“Westworld” has quickly developed a fanatical following among viewers who parse every detail of the show described as a puzzle-within-a-puzzle set in a resort where humanized robots cater to the out-there whims of high-end patrons. Bloys said the fan obsession that “Westworld” has generated organically through social media and podcasts has been a pleasant surprise. He makes a point of scrolling through Twitter when the show airs live on Sunday nights. Bloys admits he’s gained insights about the show’s many mysteries by following the real-time detective work of fans.
“The level of detail that people devote to thinking about it is impressive,” he said, citing the intricate mythology crafted by “Westworld” creators/showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy.
For all three shows, Bloys said the HBO creative team is gratified that the new offerings have found their niche with fans and critics. “Westworld” has been an unqualified success, averaging 11.7 million viewers per episode to date when reruns, VOD and streaming airings are factored in. “Divorce” has averaged 4.4 million viewers by the same measure while “Insecure” has averaged 3.2 million.
“All three (series) have done exactly what I’d hoped in terms of connecting with audiences and raising the questions the creators set out to raise,” said Bloys.
All three shows were renewed for 10 episodes. Bloys said there are no plans for major casting moves or showrunner changes — another welcome sign of stability.
After “Westworld” wraps, HBO will field two new limited series — “The Young Pope,” starting Jan. 15, and the Reese Witherspoon-Nicole Kidman starrer “Big Little Lies,” which is targeted for February. After that, the next new drama series on deck will be David Simon’s period piece “The Deuce.”
Bloys called “Insecure” and “Divorce” two “great building blocks” for HBO’s comedy slate anchored by “Veep,” “Silicon Valley” and the upcoming final season of “Girls.” “Divorce” was a win for HBO in bringing “Sex and the City” star Sarah Jessica Parker back to its air. “Insecure’s” Issa Rae has won raves for tackling the thorny issues of race and gender relations at a time when both subjects are much in the headlines. “The social interaction on ‘Insecure’ is really strong,” Bloys said.
Other HBO programming questions Bloys addressed:
Jon Stewart: The former “Daily Show” host is still working on an effort to produce short-form animated content on topical issues for HBO’s various platforms. Stewart had been expected to have a presence on HBO during the 2016 presidential race. Bloys said his “hope” is that some material will be ready by the first quarter of next year. “He is really putting together a whole animation studio. It’s not a small endeavor,” he said.
“The Night Of” and “True Detective”: The creators of both limited series continue to bat around ideas for new installments but there’s nothing firm yet for either show. “When they get something that’s exciting to them, we will happily do another season,” Bloys said.
“We’re thrilled that the saga of Westworld will continue for another season,” said co-creators and showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy. “During the lengthy journey to the screen, our incredibly talented actors, staff and crew became a family, and we look forward to the privilege of continuing this experience with them.”
“Westworld” is produced by Kilter Films, Bad Robot Productions and Jerry Weintraub Productions in association with Warner Bros. Television. Along with Nolan and Joy, executive producers are J.J. Abrams, Jerry Weintraub and Bryan Burk.
those scenes are infuriating for how stupid they are - they can't lie effectively or betray the equivalent of a 10 y/o??? yea she is cunning and now intelligent - but she only knows what you idiots tell her!
and when she first came out why isn't she assuming the tech she sees around her is magic?
how the hell are there no alarms when she is the only function host not to fall into hibernation in the bar?
especially since we saw command remotely monitors the telemetry?
When Bernard said "what door" I was like
When Theresa stopped in her tracks while viewing the blueprints, I was like
When it was revealed that Bernard is a host, I was like
When Theresa stopped in her tracks while viewing the blueprints, I was like
When it was revealed that Bernard is a host, I was like
After watching Episode 2.... I think that the phrase that Deloris quoted to her is some kind of awaking command. That's when Mave started questioning everything and started getting flashbacks. I also think that command is the same way that Deloris has been able to get away with what she is doing. Remember when Deloris had her conversation with Ford and as soon as she finished and Ford left.... She told the voice in her head that she didn't tell Ford anything. If Ford was truly all knowing about his creations then he would know what is going on with her. (Not to say that he doesn't know everything).. but for now I'm going with he doesn't know.
As for the Techs.... They both infuriate me, but I can understand. The Asian tech is clearly fascinated by the hosts and overtime he has developed an awe about them... He also knows that he doesn't have the skill to create or code like some of the others and views his life as stagnate. Mave... has opened up something unexpected. I think the scientist in him truly desires to see how far she is willing to go.
The other guy is purely a coward and is terrified of her....
You also have to remember that she is designed and programed to seduce men to give her everything that she wants.... Right now that is exactly what she is doing. She has basically pimping these guys.
When he had the dream in the beginning, I knew he was a host but had no proof. I promise you if you've watched every single episode every single host has had a dream to start...
Then when he couldn't see the door? CONFIRMED.
Ford is the motherfucking GOD. He flexed on her so many times. Now it's clear he's been using Bernard to keep an eye out on everything going on.. a spy hidden in plain sight. Once he confirmed that she was the one stealing the secrets and shit, it was a wrap for her.
Marvelous fucking episode.
Then when he couldn't see the door? CONFIRMED.
Ford is the motherfucking GOD. He flexed on her so many times. Now it's clear he's been using Bernard to keep an eye out on everything going on.. a spy hidden in plain sight. Once he confirmed that she was the one stealing the secrets and shit, it was a wrap for her.
Marvelous fucking episode.
When it was revealed that Bernard is a host, I was like
damn I should've stopped reading lol
i don't know how many times he has to prove it lol.
how many episodes in a row does he have to flex?
Of course its possible. He programmed Bernard he can program Theresa to act the same way
He's in the business of making them real....
You must be talking about the beginning of the episode. I do agree that it is different, but we have seen flashbacks before on this show. Ford has had one????
You might be on to something. Fucking Ford is likely the first host. Likely created by Arnold. Because of his desire to be closer to humanity, he likely transferred himself to a newer but older appearing body... every few years to keep up appearances. Again, this would explain his unchanging desire to tell a narrative above all else. His ability to control any and every host by pure thought. His desire to keep all of the information about the hosts in house and His need to be a God in his park.
In his mind, the narrator of the Story is god. He was likely created to assist Arnold in the parks creation. Arnold probably grew to think of him as friend and not just a machine... and likely implanted reasoning and concepts to increase his knowledge about Humanity. Ford likely came up with a plan, that relates to the eventual replacement of humanity, Arnold objected, and Ford began the process of Arnold's replacement with Bernard.
Besides the hosts, Ford has been the only other character that has shown a backstory through flashback.
Bills...... might have just opened my mind to a something that I haven't thought about yet. I need to rewatch the episode where they showed Ford's flashback.
All they doing is tweeking her a little, but she was unlocked by someone else.
They said someone else was already changing her programming, someone that had much more access than them.
You must be talking about the beginning of the episode. I do agree that it is different, but we have seen flashbacks before on this show. Ford has had one????
You might be on to something. Fucking Ford is likely the first host. Likely created by Arnold. Because of his desire to be closer to humanity, he likely transferred himself to a newer but older appearing body... every few years to keep up appearances. Again, this would explain his unchanging desire to tell a narrative above all else. His ability to control any and every host by pure thought. His desire to keep all of the information about the hosts in house and His need to be a God in his park.
In his mind, the narrator of the Story is god. He was likely created to assist Arnold in the parks creation. Arnold probably grew to think of him as friend and not just a machine... and likely implanted reasoning and concepts to increase his knowledge about Humanity. Ford likely came up with a plan, that relates to the eventual replacement of humanity, Arnold objected, and Ford began the process of Arnold's replacement with Bernard.
Besides the hosts, Ford has been the only other character that has shown a backstory through flashback.
Bills...... might have just opened my mind to a something that I haven't thought about yet. I need to rewatch the episode where they showed Ford's flashback.
Ford can control everything in the park. Why wouldn't he be a highly evolved A.I. host?
Hosts are built with restrictions. You can actually build one that doesn't have it.
Ford might not be Arnold at all, he might be Ford himself, creating himself, so he could live on much longer than his physical self did. Who would know? You control the hosts and the buildings and everything else. Nothing appears unless you want it to period.
You have to reevaluate what anyone is because at this point, you can even have a host like Bernard who is just living...
Thandie said it... I've always wanted to survive but... it's just another loop.
Day to day is a loop. Everything is a loop. You don't know you're a host, until you are exposed to it. Even now Thandie knows she's a host and is empowered to make decisions.
Bernard was operating under a set of rules for the purpose of weeding out the traitor. Now that Theresa is done he can find out even more. Remove the person they trust and plant them as your own.
oh well...
it's entirely my fault...bad habit I've developed jumping into these threads and reading spoilers...it started w/ game of thrones
So what if William is the MiB when he first arrived. He fell in love with Delores before she was killed/reset. Now he is looking for a way to make her remember and aware and he believes the maze is the manner to do it.
"what door???"
I really need to watch the previous episode right before I watch a new one to get my mind in the "Westworld" frame of thinking.
You guys were in top of it. When he said "What door"? I was like "Nigga you can't see"?
When Bernard said "what door" I was like
Y'all need to go back and watch that scene. When they first enter the house the door was NOT visible.
That's the point... HAHAHAHAAHA... We all know it wasn't visible at first.
exactly he just got through explaining how hosts can't see anything they weren't programmed to see.
On another note; it's pretty cool to have both Odin & The Valkyrie in the same production BEFORE we see them in Thor: Ragnarok.
I would include my man Cyclops in this, but James Marsden is pretty much done with playing him & 2 other young men have since portrayed the character...
I would include my man Cyclops in this, but James Marsden is pretty much done with playing him & 2 other young men have since portrayed the character...
Is Tessa Thompson's character a host potentially too? Both her and Ford mentioned the line about requiring a "blood sacrifice..."
When they logged into her with the tablet, instead of shutting the robot that just threatened them down they made it smarter.
On another note; it's pretty cool to have both Odin & The Valkyrie in the same production BEFORE we see them in Thor: Ragnarok.
I would include my man Cyclops in this, but James Marsden is pretty much done with playing him & 2 other young men have since portrayed the character...
Fuck that imma keep it real and rep my boy Peoples Hermandez.
Also I don't think that host Theresa will be the first person he has sent back to the board to report everything is OK.
Good one!
That's another extremely good point... I think this is the likely scenario but I still wouldn't be surprised if the MIB actually turns out to be Williams boy and this is sort of his redemption quest to again make her remember.
Side note..... We only have 3 more episodes left.
They gonna mind fuck us since season 2 is next. HBO, I hate love that shitThat's another extremely good point... I think this is the likely scenario but I still wouldn't be surprised if the MIB actually turns out to be Williams boy and this is sort of his redemption quest to again make her remember.
Side note..... We only have 3 more episodes left.
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