Agree on that. What was the point of her sitting in the same chair when she was a little girl?
HBO's Westworld (Official) Season 4 discussion thread (Full trailer 6/16/22) drops 6/26/22
- Thread starter fonzerrillii
- Start date
To demonstrate to her that he knew EVERYTHING about her. She didn't even know for sure when she sat down. He even let her know he knew about her and Bernard.
yeah - we'll see her again, IF she is a guest or a host - Ford is weaving a crazy web, is it pure coincidence that a guest pulls Teddy into a story that Ford JUST gave him a back story for? Especially after Ford said Teddy's main function is to keep Delores in her loop? Placing Teddy where gunslinger can use him? Yeah right. logically, Delores running is not a glitch nor was it her choice.
IMO she is having bleed over and hitting story points where she is getting the equivalent of subliminal commands.
But that conversation with the little girl (gate keeper?) happened in the current story time. It appears that girl has 1 main job (think keymaker from Matrix Reloaded).
In this ep I see that Ford is aware of and has been manipulating Bernard's interactions with Delores
In the conversation with Theresa, Ford subtly let her know that she, like everyone else in the park, has no secrets from him
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I'm wondering who the man in the middle of the maze is.
I'm gonna have to go back and start this series from the beginning with no distractions.
This is must see tv on Sun night now.
I'm gonna have to go back and start this series from the beginning with no distractions.
This is must see tv on Sun night now.
JJ made this happen but Jonathan Nolan is the true beast behind this story... Except for Dark Knight Rises, his stories are the most original and best paced...
When I saw his name as creator and writer I was WAY more interested than it being a JJ Abrams project
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0634300/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm
Another thing - I watched this before Walking Dead -
huge mistake, cause Dead was great but it was overshadowed by Westworld cause all the while I was watching I was still thinking out the layers of this Westworld episode
I want to watch Westworld live but like with GoT I'm going to have to start watching it after the other Sunday night shows
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See I'm of the opinion that the conversation with the little girl was actually in a previous timeline. The man in Black came through and wrecked shop in that town to get her father and when Deloris was there everyone appeared normal as if this was a different loop. I also don't think I saw any bullet holes. I don't think enough time has passed for a complete reset to another loop since the Man in Black took the little girls father.
If this was truly the same loop then the little girl would have been upset because her mother had died, but that didn't appear to be the case. She appeared to just be hanging around.
Plus... I don't see how the Town could be reset if the Man in Black is still with the little girls father and he still remembers the MIB killing his wife. Mainly because what would happen if the MIB decided to come back with the guy... It would kill the story to have father come back to see his murdered wife alive. Again just my opinion on that.
I do agree about the keymaker part though.
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Next weeks episode.... Does look like it's going to provide some insight into the MIB since he meets Ford and Teddy.
they have shown that the towns reset every 24 hours or even less and the hosts get patched up cleaned and reset FAST
-remember the robbery in ep1 and and look at how they snuffed the same robbery different and cleaned it up early in this ep all because a family started toward the town early
they put Thandie back to work without removing the bullet because they were behind schedule
after every major event in every ep they have shown the crews coming through to clean repair and reset
as I said before - my guess is that girl has one job - a la keymaster - and even though Delores appears to be rogue -she is really on Ford's story
also consider when we first met little girl, her and the mother were reacting to MIB bringing daddy home early just like MIB bringing Hector out of jail 3 days early broke a lot of story lines and forced the robbery to go down 3 to 4 days early
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I agree with their ability to Reset a Town, but so far we haven't seen how the reset works when one of the hosts story is still continuing.
But for now... I'm going to side with your theory.
We Were All Wrong About the Man in Black on Westworld
All images: HBO
Four episodes in, and we’re reaching a point in Westworld where I’d believe that almost anyone was secretly an android. But, last night, there was finally a hint at an answer to one of the show’s biggest mysteries: Who is the Man in Black in the real world?
Trying to “figure out” Westworld is kind of pointless. It’s not that kind of show. All the puzzle pieces are deliberately presented to us in a jumbled up form and there’s no promising that anything we’re seeing actually happened in the order that we’re seeing it. And we have no guarantees that, say, the things happening with the engineers are actually happening simultaneously to what we’re seeing in the park.
You just have to let the show go where it’s going to go and enjoy the ride as it does. Otherwise, you’re going to go fully and incredibly insane. As I have over a couple of nagging questions.
Like, for example, whether or not Robert Ford’s grand story, the one he’s currently executing, is also the maze that the Man in Black is hunting. Ford says he’s been working on this big thing for decades, and the Man in Black has been coming to the park for about that long. He’s the game player most equipped to deal with whatever Ford’s got planned. So I’m pretty sure it is, but also not sure when any of the clues the Man in Black is finding were put in.
Incidentally, for all the violence in this show, nothing has been more terrifying than Ford’s lunch with the normally dominating Westworld operations manager Theresa Cullen. He brought her to a place that he knew she had gone to as a child, with his giant machine rig digging up earth in the background, demonstrated his power over the hosts (which he commands like an army), and basically tells her to get out of his way. He also hints that the every time the business interests had interfered with his plans, things have gone badly and they’ve ultimately let him have his way. Anthony Hopkins never stops being full of genteel menace and now I’m obsessed with the history of this park, which is increasingly looking like a series of managed disasters.
Another full-blown paranoia Westworld invites you to join in on is trying to figure out if any of the “human” characters they’ve introduced are actually hosts. They set us up for that in the premiere, putting Teddy on the train with the guests and then revealing that he was all part of the game. Of course, that was all still the park. Last week, the show made a pretty good attempt to convince us that Bernard was an android. Hell, I was pretty sure Ford made him into an android version of the co-creator Arnold, since Arnold’s tragic personal life and Bernard’s son’s death were referenced as parallels (in another one of Hopkins’ “banked creepiness” speeches). Plus, Ford has proven that he’ll rebuild his past with androids with the slightest provocation. He built himself as a child! He’d totally create another Arnold and watch him nearly destroy all the androids again by implanting them with full-on crazy programming.
Bernard talking to Delores about the maze added fuel to that fire. I cannot tell if the maze is one of the things triggering the androids to remember past lives or just part of Ford’s grand plan or if Ford’s grand plan is just to have the androids fully aware because he is that into playing god or what. I do know that Westworld makes everything a possibility.
Another person that I would fully believe is an android? Stubbs, the security head, who has reactions to everything that are just enough to be ironic if it turned out he was an android, too.
All of this brings us back to the Man in Black, who was recognized by other guests this week. One said that his foundation saved his sister’s life, which frustrated the man because he is on vacation as a man who brutally murders, not as someone who saves people. It’s barely information, other than confirming that he really is a human and not just an android who managed to hack the game. (At this point, my paranoia would fully believe that he was actually a host that achieved full sentience, broke out of the park 30 years ago, made a fortune, and is proving how “human” he is by conquering the park. Ithink he’s just a human living out his id by playing the game at an elite level, which is what the showrunners keep saying, but, again, anything is possible.)
What we do know is that the Man in Black’s quest is happening at roughly the same time as Billy’s (Jimmi Simpson), so they’re not the same person. We can also sort of discount the theory that he’s Arnold, since his charitable work with people runs counter to Ford’s description of the man. Actually, his casual killing of the androids also runs counter to Ford’s description that Arnold preferred hosts to humans, so who knows?
The thing is that the writers love playing with our expectations of the Man in Black. They showed us the rows of white and black hats in episode two to remind us that the park runs on the iconography of westerns, so the Man in Black’s whole outfit screams “bad guy.” But the words of the guest say that he’s a good guy outside the park. The Man in Black’s outfit also, for those of us who’ve seen the original movie, scream “android.” He’s very much in the mold of the Gunslinger who, all in black, goes around killing the humans.
The Man in Black’s role is all about asking us what matters in a person. All we—and the hosts—see of him is, basically, terrible. Especially since the hosts are presented to us as real and the treatment of them as objects makes us uncomfortable. Of course, to him, it’s all a game and he’s playing it better than anyone else. It’s not real. And if he’s awful in the game, does it matter? He’s saving “real” lives on the outside, after all. Which one is the real him?
Westworld isn’t going to give us any answers to that, of course. The show’s about forcing your mind into pretzels pondering these questions, not performing a morality play. It’s Maeve, with her acceptance that reality isn’t what she thinks it is and her gleeful embrace of being shot to death, that is the real audience analogue.
All images: HBO
Four episodes in, and we’re reaching a point in Westworld where I’d believe that almost anyone was secretly an android. But, last night, there was finally a hint at an answer to one of the show’s biggest mysteries: Who is the Man in Black in the real world?
Trying to “figure out” Westworld is kind of pointless. It’s not that kind of show. All the puzzle pieces are deliberately presented to us in a jumbled up form and there’s no promising that anything we’re seeing actually happened in the order that we’re seeing it. And we have no guarantees that, say, the things happening with the engineers are actually happening simultaneously to what we’re seeing in the park.
You just have to let the show go where it’s going to go and enjoy the ride as it does. Otherwise, you’re going to go fully and incredibly insane. As I have over a couple of nagging questions.
Like, for example, whether or not Robert Ford’s grand story, the one he’s currently executing, is also the maze that the Man in Black is hunting. Ford says he’s been working on this big thing for decades, and the Man in Black has been coming to the park for about that long. He’s the game player most equipped to deal with whatever Ford’s got planned. So I’m pretty sure it is, but also not sure when any of the clues the Man in Black is finding were put in.
Incidentally, for all the violence in this show, nothing has been more terrifying than Ford’s lunch with the normally dominating Westworld operations manager Theresa Cullen. He brought her to a place that he knew she had gone to as a child, with his giant machine rig digging up earth in the background, demonstrated his power over the hosts (which he commands like an army), and basically tells her to get out of his way. He also hints that the every time the business interests had interfered with his plans, things have gone badly and they’ve ultimately let him have his way. Anthony Hopkins never stops being full of genteel menace and now I’m obsessed with the history of this park, which is increasingly looking like a series of managed disasters.
Another full-blown paranoia Westworld invites you to join in on is trying to figure out if any of the “human” characters they’ve introduced are actually hosts. They set us up for that in the premiere, putting Teddy on the train with the guests and then revealing that he was all part of the game. Of course, that was all still the park. Last week, the show made a pretty good attempt to convince us that Bernard was an android. Hell, I was pretty sure Ford made him into an android version of the co-creator Arnold, since Arnold’s tragic personal life and Bernard’s son’s death were referenced as parallels (in another one of Hopkins’ “banked creepiness” speeches). Plus, Ford has proven that he’ll rebuild his past with androids with the slightest provocation. He built himself as a child! He’d totally create another Arnold and watch him nearly destroy all the androids again by implanting them with full-on crazy programming.
Bernard talking to Delores about the maze added fuel to that fire. I cannot tell if the maze is one of the things triggering the androids to remember past lives or just part of Ford’s grand plan or if Ford’s grand plan is just to have the androids fully aware because he is that into playing god or what. I do know that Westworld makes everything a possibility.
Another person that I would fully believe is an android? Stubbs, the security head, who has reactions to everything that are just enough to be ironic if it turned out he was an android, too.
All of this brings us back to the Man in Black, who was recognized by other guests this week. One said that his foundation saved his sister’s life, which frustrated the man because he is on vacation as a man who brutally murders, not as someone who saves people. It’s barely information, other than confirming that he really is a human and not just an android who managed to hack the game. (At this point, my paranoia would fully believe that he was actually a host that achieved full sentience, broke out of the park 30 years ago, made a fortune, and is proving how “human” he is by conquering the park. Ithink he’s just a human living out his id by playing the game at an elite level, which is what the showrunners keep saying, but, again, anything is possible.)
What we do know is that the Man in Black’s quest is happening at roughly the same time as Billy’s (Jimmi Simpson), so they’re not the same person. We can also sort of discount the theory that he’s Arnold, since his charitable work with people runs counter to Ford’s description of the man. Actually, his casual killing of the androids also runs counter to Ford’s description that Arnold preferred hosts to humans, so who knows?
The thing is that the writers love playing with our expectations of the Man in Black. They showed us the rows of white and black hats in episode two to remind us that the park runs on the iconography of westerns, so the Man in Black’s whole outfit screams “bad guy.” But the words of the guest say that he’s a good guy outside the park. The Man in Black’s outfit also, for those of us who’ve seen the original movie, scream “android.” He’s very much in the mold of the Gunslinger who, all in black, goes around killing the humans.
The Man in Black’s role is all about asking us what matters in a person. All we—and the hosts—see of him is, basically, terrible. Especially since the hosts are presented to us as real and the treatment of them as objects makes us uncomfortable. Of course, to him, it’s all a game and he’s playing it better than anyone else. It’s not real. And if he’s awful in the game, does it matter? He’s saving “real” lives on the outside, after all. Which one is the real him?
Westworld isn’t going to give us any answers to that, of course. The show’s about forcing your mind into pretzels pondering these questions, not performing a morality play. It’s Maeve, with her acceptance that reality isn’t what she thinks it is and her gleeful embrace of being shot to death, that is the real audience analogue.
comments from blog:
The big revelations:
* THE BIG ONE: The church steeple Bernard and Ford looked at before, that’s the church that Dolores remembered when talking to Lawrence’s creepy daughter. That’s the church from Ford’s story about Arnold and the early history of the park! That’s where Arnold possibly died, it’s where the park started. Now it’s a barren spot, with only the steeple remaining.
* The MiB is a famous philanthropist in the real world.
* Going off of that, he’s the “Root” of this show, to use a Person of Interest analogy (it’s J. Nolan and A.I., I’d say it counts). Ford sadly noted mankind had conquered disease in the premiere, now he’s shown his hand as an amoral god of the park, happily controlling the “not real” hosts. MiB, he might be brutal, but he wants to set the Hosts “free,” complete Arnold’s work, and give them sentience. Maybe he’s so brutal to the Hosts because he pities them. His comments on how anger and race are the most human implies he’s not a sadist, but he’s trying to elicit the more “real” feelings. This changed everything.
* Also, MiB knows about Arnold. Despite Delos and such scrubbing the records.
* Logan and William’s employing company has a stake in the park. Not controlling, but...
One revelation that demands a question: Armistice revealed that Wyatt gave her the tattoo. Okay, fine. But Wyatt and his cult are a new storyline. So, that means the Maze’s storyline was changed. Did the MiB’s quest for the Maze get altered mid-game?
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Teddy’s link to Wyatt is new. We don’t know if Wyatt’s cult is new or not.
The show is doing a great job of handing out tidbits that make you think that something might be true, but not giving you enough to be certain it is.
The big revelations:
* THE BIG ONE: The church steeple Bernard and Ford looked at before, that’s the church that Dolores remembered when talking to Lawrence’s creepy daughter. That’s the church from Ford’s story about Arnold and the early history of the park! That’s where Arnold possibly died, it’s where the park started. Now it’s a barren spot, with only the steeple remaining.
* The MiB is a famous philanthropist in the real world.
* Going off of that, he’s the “Root” of this show, to use a Person of Interest analogy (it’s J. Nolan and A.I., I’d say it counts). Ford sadly noted mankind had conquered disease in the premiere, now he’s shown his hand as an amoral god of the park, happily controlling the “not real” hosts. MiB, he might be brutal, but he wants to set the Hosts “free,” complete Arnold’s work, and give them sentience. Maybe he’s so brutal to the Hosts because he pities them. His comments on how anger and race are the most human implies he’s not a sadist, but he’s trying to elicit the more “real” feelings. This changed everything.
* Also, MiB knows about Arnold. Despite Delos and such scrubbing the records.
* Logan and William’s employing company has a stake in the park. Not controlling, but...
One revelation that demands a question: Armistice revealed that Wyatt gave her the tattoo. Okay, fine. But Wyatt and his cult are a new storyline. So, that means the Maze’s storyline was changed. Did the MiB’s quest for the Maze get altered mid-game?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teddy’s link to Wyatt is new. We don’t know if Wyatt’s cult is new or not.
The show is doing a great job of handing out tidbits that make you think that something might be true, but not giving you enough to be certain it is.
ya I'm sober right now and not exactly tryna hear your shit lol
I didn't think about this point... hmmm
Thinking on this one will give me a head ache.
Bernard says in ep 1 there's been over 30 years since the last critical breakdown. So how long was it running before that? Ed Harris character been comin there for 30 years.
Man what year is this story taking place in? 2216? 2316?
Ford mentions no disease or sickness. I'm thinking 2-300 years in the future based on the tech. What yall think or did I miss something?
Man what year is this story taking place in? 2216? 2316?
Ford mentions no disease or sickness. I'm thinking 2-300 years in the future based on the tech. What yall think or did I miss something?
We don't know how long it was running... I'm still hoping that this is a sort of continuation from the Movie. But for now... there are no clues.
As for the year... There is a part of me that thinks this has to be in outer space in some kind of space station, based on the sheer size of this park. I don't see how it could fit anywhere on Earth. Plus... It costs 40k a day. Meaning it is is extremely exclusive. So I would guess 2316. Which would explain why our modern music is being played like classics.
Texas, Australia - if there is climate control definitely Alaska, Canada
ya I don't think it's off world
I still leaning on Off world... This is some extremely advanced tech and we haven't seen anyone actually leave the park yet. It appears that the employees live in a campus on the park facility.
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ALRIGHT
here's my thoughts
Delores- Multiple loops at once bleeding into her. Still being cultivated and running through her awakenings while Bernard is studying her behavior. The guests she's with now openly called her a robot, she caught that but they moved on.
The man in black was always a guest. I don't see how it could have been seen otherwise. I thought from day 1 it was clear that he was a park regular that was extremely bored with the park. Tonight he mentioned he'd been on every story but 1. He wants the guests to be able to die and he wants to know how Arnold died so he can extrapolate that onto the population to make the world real. Pieces are coming together so he can get that done.
Bernard- nothing groundbreaking tonight. Same old nurturing Delores and leaving his assistant in the dark trying to throw her off the scent.
Ford- Is building what he wants to build. He too is bored. He sees the park becoming some boring shit he didn't want. The meeting with ol girl was nothing but a flex of power about how much he controls and how much he knows. He built this thing so HE can control everything inside of the park that's a simple concept to grasp. The programmers always build in a way to overwrite or do whatever with their creations otherwise what's the point of being the creator? He keeps his eyes on both worlds and is not a fool which is the entire point of his flexing on her.
Thandie- them member berries are strong in her and she's gone unchecked because, as it would be, unless you TRULY go off the reservation nobody is going to take note. But she knows more than anyone about this and she ended up realizing that she was just going to reset which means next episode she's going to act an ass because why not?
Scary ass thought...knowing that life is meaningless can make you act out in some WILD WAYS (example the end of Preacher after they found out God was missing)
it's a REALLY thin thread holding on by a strand keeping this world together....just like ours.
And in THEIR world it's unraveling in multiple places at once. I would not be surprised if Ford intentionally did this when he patched the hosts up as we started the season.
here's my thoughts
Delores- Multiple loops at once bleeding into her. Still being cultivated and running through her awakenings while Bernard is studying her behavior. The guests she's with now openly called her a robot, she caught that but they moved on.
The man in black was always a guest. I don't see how it could have been seen otherwise. I thought from day 1 it was clear that he was a park regular that was extremely bored with the park. Tonight he mentioned he'd been on every story but 1. He wants the guests to be able to die and he wants to know how Arnold died so he can extrapolate that onto the population to make the world real. Pieces are coming together so he can get that done.
Bernard- nothing groundbreaking tonight. Same old nurturing Delores and leaving his assistant in the dark trying to throw her off the scent.
Ford- Is building what he wants to build. He too is bored. He sees the park becoming some boring shit he didn't want. The meeting with ol girl was nothing but a flex of power about how much he controls and how much he knows. He built this thing so HE can control everything inside of the park that's a simple concept to grasp. The programmers always build in a way to overwrite or do whatever with their creations otherwise what's the point of being the creator? He keeps his eyes on both worlds and is not a fool which is the entire point of his flexing on her.
Thandie- them member berries are strong in her and she's gone unchecked because, as it would be, unless you TRULY go off the reservation nobody is going to take note. But she knows more than anyone about this and she ended up realizing that she was just going to reset which means next episode she's going to act an ass because why not?
Scary ass thought...knowing that life is meaningless can make you act out in some WILD WAYS (example the end of Preacher after they found out God was missing)
it's a REALLY thin thread holding on by a strand keeping this world together....just like ours.
And in THEIR world it's unraveling in multiple places at once. I would not be surprised if Ford intentionally did this when he patched the hosts up as we started the season.
I think off world for sure because the way you get into and out of the park.. at random places, it looks like it's off world on some kind of station or something.
They're INSIDE of something and going to the park. And it's under ground (remember ol boy simping on delores when him and his boy arrived to the place to where you go get suited and go into the park itself) looked exactly like a subway system of some kind.
yeah and every time some one enters the park - they go UP in an elevator, when the guest on the train, it was an elevator that went down when the door closed (moving shadow)
I agree. Also when Bernard was on the video call with his wife didn't he say something about its hard to get a connection or something that implied that it's not easy to make calls.
I thought that it was where Ford's old partner Arnold died aka the deeper level of their experience?
he did.
might be where he died but more than likely based on everything so far, it explains how he was able to be killed inside of the park.
Damn you reminded me that I still have to finish preacher. Fuck there is a lot of tv.
Yeap.....
but huge payoffs as things unfold. doing a decent job of keeping track of everyone inside of the park.
I love this show.
Oh what in the shit.....
I already know I'll need to rewatch 3xOh what in the shit.....
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