I would also add consistently sleep with (due to energy ties) but your dead on point.
Does a Non-Black spouse negate a Pro-Black message?
- Thread starter incogneg
- Start date
I would also add consistently sleep with (due to energy ties) but your dead on point.
Douglass answered criticism just as eloquently as he always conducted himself, saying his first marriage was to someone the color of his mother, while his second was to someone the color of his father.
King committed adultery again and again: Ava DuVernay's Oscar-nominated biopic “Selma” depicts King as being unfaithful to his wife, Coretta Scott King. Though the reasons this information is public knowledge isn't ethical -- the FBI wanted to use it to discredit King -- he cheated on Coretta so many times that she was reportedly disillusioned with their marriage.
The FBI recorded one of his trysts at a Washington, D.C., hotel and sent the audiotape to his wife. His last night alive wasn’t with the woman he married -- it was with someone else. When he was assassinated at the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, the young woman was asked to stay out of the ambulance so King’s reputation would not be tainted.
King had a “weakness for women,” Ralph Abernathy wrote in his 1989 autobiography. This was a known fact among his staff. They “all understood and believed in the biblical prohibition against sex outside marriage. It was just that he had a particularly difficult time with that temptation.”
DOES THIS DIMINISH HIS LEGACY IN REGARDS TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY???
NO HYPOTHETICAL....THIS IS A REAL CASE.. DO YOU THINK MLK'S COMMITMENT TO HIS PEOPLE IS DIMINISHED BECAUSE HE WAS SERIAL CHEATER ON HIS BLACK WIFE???
Douglass answered criticism just as eloquently as he always conducted himself, saying his first marriage was to someone the color of his mother, while his second was to someone the color of his father.
King committed adultery again and again: Ava DuVernay's Oscar-nominated biopic “Selma” depicts King as being unfaithful to his wife, Coretta Scott King. Though the reasons this information is public knowledge isn't ethical -- the FBI wanted to use it to discredit King -- he cheated on Coretta so many times that she was reportedly disillusioned with their marriage.
The FBI recorded one of his trysts at a Washington, D.C., hotel and sent the audiotape to his wife. His last night alive wasn’t with the woman he married -- it was with someone else. When he was assassinated at the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, the young woman was asked to stay out of the ambulance so King’s reputation would not be tainted.
King had a “weakness for women,” Ralph Abernathy wrote in his 1989 autobiography. This was a known fact among his staff. They “all understood and believed in the biblical prohibition against sex outside marriage. It was just that he had a particularly difficult time with that temptation.”
DOES THIS DIMINISH HIS LEGACY IN REGARDS TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY???
NO HYPOTHETICAL....THIS IS A REAL CASE.. DO YOU THINK MLK'S COMMITMENT TO HIS PEOPLE IS DIMINISHED BECAUSE HE WAS SERIAL CHEATER ON HIS BLACK WIFE???
Yes.
you just want to stay consistent but you KNOW it doesn't...you KNOW the community doesn't believe that.. hell people IN THE MOVEMENT KNEW he was a cheater and STILL followed him..
Why the fuck do you have to take every topic on some sideways bs?
what sideways bs?? whats the topic
MLK..a MARRIED MINISTER cheated on his wife and if the FBI claims are true some of them were white women... this is EXACTLY the type of thing this thread is about...leaders living up to a standard. Did he marry a non black spouse? no but he did cheat on his spouse and with nonblack women...
At some level yes it does, because a generation of well to do Black men especially, have cut the head off, of building a strong African based family image, economic system etc that is necessary to rebuild a Black nation, that can combat global racism.
Doesn't remove them from being Black, but whenthe image of mother, of wife, of feminity and passing of the culture of the family skews things a tad, sorta like white Jesus. when All that is wrapped up in a white or Asian or other female, your focus has to be slanted a bit
We need all the help we can get, but that shit fucks with the minds of our girls...which of course impacts the root.
When folks are fucking they ain't worried about None of that shit I just wrote
Did Dr. King marry a black woman....yes..was he TRUE to that black woman and his family?? NO.
does that negate his pro-black message?? YOU DECIDE
So i guess im supposed to be with only black women. Damn that's like eating one kind of ice cream for the rest of my life. Fuck that! I know who i am and i love me some me. Come at me with any fuck shit and get taken down. That's how the fuck it is no mater what color chick i've settled down with. Im where i am in life because of me. I got now help from not near a nicca except myself. So fuck what you think!
marital fidelity is the rock on which the family (in this case the BLACK family) is built on...and a whole black family builds the black COMMUNITY... it also speaks on your VALUES.
now if you can look past all that to see MLK as a credible black leader based on his actions for the cause then whats the difference if he married a non black woman and built a family with her all the while marching and demanding rights for black people??
Peace,
I really shouldn't even bother to engage you in these. Your only goal seems to intentionally try to be a contrarian, despite the fact that your arguments usually suck. Anyway..
The original question was 'Does a Non-Black Spouse Negate A Pro-Black Message?'
Instead of dealing with that very simple question, you seem to want to argue about Martin Luther King's infidelity. That's not just tangential, that's deliberately framing an entirely different argument so that you can attempt to claim some ridiculous moral high ground at the expense of MLK (shitty thing to do, btw).
I really shouldn't even bother to engage you in these. Your only goal seems to intentionally try to be a contrarian, despite the fact that your arguments usually suck. Anyway..
The original question was 'Does a Non-Black Spouse Negate A Pro-Black Message?'
Instead of dealing with that very simple question, you seem to want to argue about Martin Luther King's infidelity. That's not just tangential, that's deliberately framing an entirely different argument so that you can attempt to claim some ridiculous moral high ground at the expense of MLK (shitty thing to do, btw).
I already addressed that part earlier...but people are talking about choices being made that shows your values and how that can effect your message and whats important to the black community and black family structure. If loving a nonblack woman is detrimental to the black community structure then what is cheating on a black woman you married?
why overlook one and not the other?
But lets drop MLK since its too much for you to deal with....
Frederick Douglass was brought up...
Douglass answered criticism just as eloquently as he always conducted himself, saying his first marriage was to someone the color of his mother, while his second was to someone the color of his father.
IS HIS LEGACY TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY DAMAGED BY THE FACT THAT HE MARRIED A WHITE WOMAN???
THATS ON TOPIC AND I'LL WAIT FOR YOUR ANSWER
(but if your answer is yes you question his bona fides considering you stand on the shoulders of his efforts 100 years before then thats a shitty thing to do)
Last edited:
I already addressed that part earlier...but people are talking about choices being made that shows your values and how that can effect your message and whats important to the black community and black family structure. If loving a nonblack woman is detrimental to the black community structure then what is cheating on a black woman you married?
why overlook one and not the other?
But lets drop MLK since its too much for you to deal with....
Frederick Douglass was brought up...
Douglass answered criticism just as eloquently as he always conducted himself, saying his first marriage was to someone the color of his mother, while his second was to someone the color of his father.
IS HIS LEGACY TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY DAMAGED BY THE FACT THAT HE MARRIED A WHITE WOMAN???
THATS ON TOPIC AND I'LL WAIT FOR YOUR ANSWER
(but if your answer is yes you question his bona fides considering you stand on the shoulders of his efforts 100 years before then thats a shitty thing to do)
IN THE OVERALL SCHEME , ILL STATE IT CLEARLY ! YES! THATS MY OPINION!! YES HIS CONTRIBUTION IS VALIED AND APPRECIATED BUT I CANT PUT HIS OVER SAY GARVEY AND MALCOLM OR EVERS ,ETC IN THAT SCHEME , BECOS WHEN WE TALK NATION BUILDING, IT STARTS WITH FAMILY AND IF WANT A STRONG BLACK FAMILY FIRST MINDSET TO BUILD A NATION, THEN HE DOENST QUALIFY, THATS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE! JUST LIKE DR CLARKE SAID , I THINK ITS DR CLARKE, "UNTIL THE SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY IS DESTROYED, INTERRACIAL MIXING ESPECIALLY OF PROMINENT BLACK FOLKS IS A DISSERVICE, IF WE HAVE DESTROYED THE LEGACY AND REALITY OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND U WISH TO GET A BECKY , THEN AND ONLY THEN SHALL IT BE ACCEPTABLE .. MY 2C
You can't promote a strong successful black family if both partners are not black.
the thread title says nonblack spouse..
so is this okay to you?
Responding on my phone so it may be a little convoluted.
It shouldn't negate one's message by it does to many people. It actually does a disservice because it places people within confines of behavior. For instance, you begin to hear "a real black person" is... It is the no ttue scotsman fallacy.
I think the problem is in the definition and maybe how many people see it. I have never thought that pro-black is anti-anything or another group. Meaning pro-black is not anti-white, but it is about being pro-human and inclusion. If the definition of pro-black is always in relation to white supremacy and racism then it is severely limiting considering that the success of black people equates to the success and growth of the human family. Yet, we are very tribal. The one thing that black people like to fight against is being a monolithic group, but if you're self reflection is through the purview of white supremacy then your identity is skewed. It is distorted like those mirrors in a funhouse.
Now, if pro black is just a response to white supremacy which is false supremacy and anti-progress, tribal and anti-human in general then it would be impossible for any black person to be pro-black because it only addresses the worst of humanity.
I'm about as receptive to them as I am a fat gym teacher or personal trainer. All the while in mind I'll be saying "look at this hypocritical fucka!"
the thread title says nonblack spouse..
so is this okay to you?
I GENERALLY DONT HAVE MUCH PROBLEM WITH ASIANS WHO HAVENT BEEN DROWNED IN WHITE SUPREMACIST BS!, BECOS OUR HISTORY ISNT THE SAME AS WITH CAUCASIANS , AND IF HES NOT A LEADER OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND SUCH , AS A REGULAR CIVILIAN I DONT HAVE MUCH QUALMS WITH HIM AND YES MY ISSUES WITH MIXING WHEN URE A LEADER IN THE COMMUNITY WHO IS TRYING TO UPLIFT AND UNITE AND PROMOTE BLACK CULTURE AND SELF ACCEPTANCE, IS MOSTLY MUCH CONFINED TO BLACK & WHITE FOLKS, CHAPPELLE ISNT A CULTURAL LEADER HES JUST A COMEDIAN! NOW IF DR UMAR OR SHARPTON OR REV JACKSON OR DR CLARKE OR DR BEN DID THEN I'D LOOK AT THEM MAD SIDEWAYS! U CANT HAVE DRUG DEALER PREACHING "JUST SAY NO" WHILE HES STILL SLANGING!
YEP! BUT
PRO-BLACK DOESNT MEAN ANTI /WHITE OR ANTI-EVERYBODY, ITS SET UP TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF THE FALLACY BUT REALITY OF WHITE SUPREMACY, " TO GIVE AN OPPRESSED PEOPLES HOPE AND SERVE TO REINSTATE THEIR HUMANITY AND TO DESTROY THAT WHICH PLACED HIM IN THAT PREDICAMENT, !
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, PRO-BLACK DOESNT MEAN ANTI-ASIAN/ANTI-ARAB/ANTI-? EVEN ANTI-WHITE ..BUT IN THE PROCESS OF ADDRESSING THE MANY MANY EFFECTS OF WHITE SUPREMACY, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF "SELF LOVE" , AND TO SAY "WE ARE ENOUGH" AND WE DONT NEED VALIDATION FROM ANYONE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO PUT US IN THIS PREDICAMENT,
IT IS NOT NECESSARILY SAYING "WHITE IS WRONG"..IN THE OVERALL SCHEME OF THINGS WE WANT THE WHOLE WORLD TO BE WELL ,BECOS BLACK FOLKS ARENT DEVILS BY NATURE, WE DONT SEEK TO DESTROY OR ENSLAVE THE WHOLE WORLD FOR OUR TWISTED SELF INTEREST, WE JUST WANT TO BEGIN TO RIGHT THE WRONGS , HENCE BEING "PRO -BLACK"AND ONE ANGLE OF THAT IS" SELF LOVE" AND IF IN SO DOING, YOU AS A LEADER CANT SHOW ME WHY THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THE SISTERS BY MARRYING AND PROCREATING WITH ONE TO RAISE ANOTHER THAT LOOKS AND REFLECTS U BOTH ,THEN U MIGHT BE SUBLIMINALLY SAYING U MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO LOVE A BLACK WOMAN" MY 2C
PRO-BLACK DOESNT MEAN "BLACK SUPREMACY"
how do you agree with him if what he said is the antithesis of what youre point is???
NOT REALLY , I SAW HIS POINT BUT I SAID ! YEP! "BUT"
....and ...can u address my post while ure at it?
essentially what youre saying is you expect black leaders to walk it like they talk it and if they don't then it hurts their credibility in the community...but that brings us back to MLK and Bill Cosby..here are two black men who were very pro black..they married black women, they had black families and they did for the black community very publicly. Even if you take away the rape allegations for cosby youre still left with a man who cheated with HUNDREDS of woman over the last 40 years and the majority of them white. All the while promoting family values in the black community and sending black kids to college and developing positive programs for black youth. Now marriage is the cornerstone of the family and family is the foundation for the black community. That being the case these men violated that precept and YET there are people here would still give them a pass on it....if thats the case then your picking and choosing what to take issue with which makes a pro black man who marries a non black spouse an arbitrary issue to have a problem with.
no I did..just like I brought up fredrick douglass..you responded to that..
MLK WHO INTEGRATED US INTO A BURNING HOUSE ? , OR COSBY WHO TRIED BUT WAS TOO SHORT VISIONED IN HIS MYOPIC VISION IN HIS "WORING WITHIN THE SYSTEM,
ARE THEY GREAT MEN? YES ,
DID THEY TRY THEIR BEST ? YES
BTU DID THEY ULTIMATELY FALL SHORT IN 'MY" EYES ..YES
NOW , GARVEY WENT DOWN FIGHTING, MALCOLM X ,DR BEN , DR CLARKE BECOS THEY FULLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THE BLACKMAN WITH HIS BLACKWOMAN AT HIS SIDE MUST OWN HIS SHIT, MUST CONTROL HIS OWN LIFE, DOMICILE, FAITH,RELIGION,SPIRITUALITY AND ULTIMATELY HIS DESTINY TO BE FREE, GARVEY RANKS HIGHER IN MY BOOK THAN MLK OR COSBY, AND GARVEY WAS MALCOLM'S HERO !!
THAT IS MY RESPONSE
Last edited:
You can always tell who has a limited knowledge base on these matters when this issue is broached and fools start yelling out Frederick Douglas as their go to.
Douglas was widowed by his BLACK wife of nearly 50 years and married a few years later near age 70 to a white abolitionist who was essentially his secretary.
At 70 years old and the life he led and work he put in, he earned the right to marry who the fuck he wanted to. If there was ever an exception to the rule its this situation.
Nigga WTF is limited about what I said?
I solely spoke on MY experience and preference w/o condemning another man's choice. Your last sentence about rule exception falls in line with my original statement. Anything that is an exception to the rule denotes a stray from accepted norms and therefore categorizing it as a phenomena effect.
Last edited:
He doesnt fucking apply to the spirit of the discussion nigga!!! Thats whats limited!Nigga WTF is limited about what I said?
Context and facts are important. And a 70 year old widow who married his 40 year old abolitionist secretary shouldnt be included in a discussion debating the merits of black militants marrying non black. Implicit in the question is the notion of black family and the prioritizing of that by pro blacks. Douglas was married nearly 50 years to a black woman and had about 5 black babies they raised as a family before she died.
He shouldnt be fucking mentioned here. Period.
Wow Nate Parker has a white wife too? Now those have to be some interesting dinner discussions about American History.
Glad he made the Nat Turner Story, hope it goes hard.
Doesn't negate the fact that his wife and her image will fuck with the minds of young Black girls when he goes to the Oscars next year. We as humans are not as strong as we espouse. Imagery does fuck 28th each and everyone one of us raised in this bombardment of anti African cultural representation in America
Glad he made the Nat Turner Story, hope it goes hard.
Doesn't negate the fact that his wife and her image will fuck with the minds of young Black girls when he goes to the Oscars next year. We as humans are not as strong as we espouse. Imagery does fuck 28th each and everyone one of us raised in this bombardment of anti African cultural representation in America
what the fuck difference does that make since no one here said anything about a age limit or how much you did or whether youre coupling with a non black (but especially white) woman produces children.
Does a Non-Black spouse negate a Pro-Black message?
if thats the question he fits in it...and clearly it was brought as an issue in his lifetime because he responded to it.
Douglass answered criticism just as eloquently as he always conducted himself, saying his first marriage was to someone the color of his mother, while his second was to someone the color of his father.
Again, asshole, implicit in the question is the prioritizing of the notion of black family. It would not be in the spirit of the question to include Douglas in a group with blacks who married non black in their physical prime and pro created with only them. Its an intellectual dishonest stance for anyone with half a brain.
Didnt he leave her while she was alive ? But either way you dont hear a lot about what his wife did, nor her being a part of his life, like thanks for getting me over the hump now let me marry my white queen
Bottom line i look at and judge niggas that get on that blackman is suffering and we need to xyz but going home to their white girl. So you want to uplift the community and protect the black woman... But one is not good enough to marry, so how can you convince others to love us if you dont love us ? And a few of these cats had black wives then went and got that" trophy " wife afterwards.
As for who you fall in love with last i check as a man i have to pursue who i want so if i pursue white women guess what, eventually i will get and fall in love with ? You cats kill me with the excuses
Last edited:
Wouldnt the rational and logical approach be one to address on more than face value and acknowledge the spirit of the matter at hand?
A sound one. One accounting for context and intent.
The ACTUAL question is about how can a man promote blackness then marry outside his own race period. Thats why all of these repsonses address the optics and subliminal message of a black leader marrying a non black but especially WHITE woman. Even if you want to bring in future generations and children being produced Douglass's white wife was STILL of child bearing age and we've seen cases of men in old age still producing children.
The reality is if going by their response even tho FD was old and had fought for change for his people..things weren't and STILL aren't even close to being settled enough for him to jump the fence especially in his era that saw the ending of slavery and the rise of jim crow. For him to marry a white woman while black men were being lynched for LOOKING at a white bitch is kinda
in their eyes. Your response actually bolsters my side in that taking issue with it is an arbitrary thing since youre willing to give passes under certain circumstances..