How Segregation Destroys Black Wealth

Spectrum

Elite Poster
BGOL Investor
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/opinion/how-segregation-destroys-black-wealth.html?_r=0

Americans commonly — and mistakenly — believe that well-to-do black people no longer face the kind of discrimination that prevents them from living anywhere they can afford. But a federal housing discrimination complaint filed last week by theNational Fair Housing Alliance shows that this toxic problem is very much with us, nearly 50 years after Congress outlawed housing discrimination in the Fair Housing Act.

The complaint, and the investigations that led to it, shows how real estate agents promote segregation — and deny African-Americans the opportunity to buy into high-value areas that would provide better educations for children and a greater return on their investments.

Over the course of nearly a year, the alliance reports, black and white testers posing as home buyers had drastically different experiences when they contacted a real estate company near Jackson, Miss. Agents often declined to show properties to black customers who were better qualified than whites, with higher incomes, better credit scores and more savings for down payments. Meanwhile, white testers who had expressed interest in properties in the majority-black city of Jackson were steered into majority-white communities elsewhere.

These problems are not limited to the South. Indeed, another alliance investigation covering a dozen metropolitan areas, including Atlanta, Austin, Birmingham, Chicago, Dayton, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Antonio and the District of Columbia, suggests that housing market discrimination is universal.

Despite being better qualified financially, black and Latino testers were shown fewer homes than their white peers, were often denied information about special incentives that would have made the purchase easier, and were required to produce loan pre-approval letters and other documents when whites were not.

Moreover, real estate agents enforced residential and school segregation by steering home buyers into neighborhoods based on race. Whites were encouraged to live where the schools were mainly white; African-Americans where schools were disproportionately black; and Latinos where schools were disproportionately Latino.

This behavior is reminiscent of the practices used by the real estate industry in the early 20th century that created ghettos for blacks regardless of income. As the black population grew in Northern cities, realty agents developed a variety of tools for isolating black families, including contracts that barred owners from renting or selling to “outsiders” — always a code for African-Americans.

The Federal Housing Administration, created during the New Deal to promote homeownership, openly supported these racist measures; it forbade lending to black people even as it subsidized white families that moved from the cities to the suburbs. Cut off from fairly priced home loan credit, black neighborhoods deteriorated and their values plummeted.


Many discriminatory practices were formally ended with the civil rights and fair lending laws of the 1960s and 70s. But these were quickly replaced by subtler techniques that encouraged ghettoization, like channeling black families away from white areas and banks’ and mortgage brokers’ systematically pushing middle-income black families into high-cost, high-risk loans when they could have qualified for more affordable loans.

This history of discrimination has taken an enormous toll on black wealth, as is shown in research by Douglas Massey and Jonathan Tannen at Princeton University’s Office of Population Research. In 1970, two years after the passage of the Fair Housing Act, for example, the average well-off black American lived in a neighborhood where potential home wealth, as measured by property values, stood at about only $50,000 — as opposed to $105,000 for affluent whites and $56,000 for poor whites.

By 2010, affluent African-Americans had passed poor whites in potential home wealth but had fallen further behind affluent whites. There is more than money at stake, Mr. Massey and Mr. Tannen write, because home values “translate directly into access to higher quality education given that public schools in the United States are financed by real estate taxes.”

Throughout history, ethnic groups have been able to translate economic gains into housing in better neighborhoods and advantages for their children. But for African-Americans, the researchers write, that transition has been “thwarted by segregation and the prejudice and discrimination that create and maintain it.” In other words, the damage reaches across generations and continues today.
 
Not surprising at all.

This behavior is reminiscent of the practices used by the real estate industry in the early 20th century that created ghettos for blacks regardless of income. As the black population grew in Northern cities, realty agents developed a variety of tools for isolating black families, including contracts that barred owners from renting or selling to “outsiders” — always a code for African-Americans.

The Federal Housing Administration, created during the New Deal to promote homeownership, openly supported these racist measures; it forbade lending to black people even as it subsidized white families that moved from the cities to the suburbs. Cut off from fairly priced home loan credit, black neighborhoods deteriorated and their values plummeted.

How the government created ghettos
^^^
 
the implication here is that integration will help black wealth.....no

most black folks would not be in a position to purchase homes/properties given the job/resource distribution as it stands today.

Most well off blacks would move into whiter neighborhoods and increase their wealth there.....

"integration" increasing black wealth, if hypothetically true, would increase white wealth 10 fold...thats the only way they(feds) would allow it

this is just my observation...
 
Separation builds black power. If whites cannot control it they take it. They control those blacks that live in white neighbor hoods. If I had my way I do not want to see or be around whites at all.
Remember the Jews took over a whole country over a lie. That lie enabled them to investigate and destroy any artifacts about blacks and any truth about Jesus. And Botha took over South Africa as a devil that the people did not recognize at the time. And remember Africa was named after a white man. Every country in Africa was named after a white man. So blacks history from the stand point of the masses has always been after it was injected and controlled by white supremacy. No where on the face of this earth are blacks allowed to own a piece of this earth to call their own. We may still found proof of white lies. We got to force a piece of this world for us to call our own in our right mind and not an artificial mind created by them.
 
the implication here is that integration will help black wealth.....no...
No.

Separation builds black power. If whites cannot control it they take it. They control those blacks that live in white neighbor hoods. If I had my way I do not want to see or be around whites at all.
Remember the Jews took over a whole country over a lie. That lie enabled them to investigate and destroy any artifacts about blacks and any truth about Jesus. And Botha took over South Africa as a devil that the people did not recognize at the time. And remember Africa was named after a white man. Every country in Africa was named after a white man. So blacks history from the stand point of the masses has always been after it was injected and controlled by white supremacy. No where on the face of this earth are blacks allowed to own a piece of this earth to call their own. We may still found proof of white lies. We got to force a piece of this world for us to call our own in our right mind and not an artificial mind created by them.
Well said.
 
Knee-gro league
Prime example of how black segregation was killing the white established league.

Look at what sprung up cities that had black teams needed hotels to accommodate them, restaurant stores etc.

They had the best most athletic player's so ANYONE who appreciate the game and want to see good baseball would fill the park.
 
Separation builds black power. If whites cannot control it they take it. They control those blacks that live in white neighbor hoods. If I had my way I do not want to see or be around whites at all.
Remember the Jews took over a whole country over a lie. That lie enabled them to investigate and destroy any artifacts about blacks and any truth about Jesus. And Botha took over South Africa as a devil that the people did not recognize at the time. And remember Africa was named after a white man. Every country in Africa was named after a white man. So blacks history from the stand point of the masses has always been after it was injected and controlled by white supremacy. No where on the face of this earth are blacks allowed to own a piece of this earth to call their own. We may still found proof of white lies. We got to force a piece of this world for us to call our own in our right mind and not an artificial mind created by them.


Not to take away from the main point of the board but not EVERY African country was named after a white man.
 
Most blacks will agree with this... But sorry to say, its like getting most crackheads to agree that crack is bad... Sure they will gladly tell you not to smoke crack, detailing all the harm and damage it can do to you, using themselves and torn apart lives as living testimony..
However, getting them to stop is a different story all together...
And for us, the white man is our crack..
We love his system, his money, his drugs, his guns, his toys and gadgets, his sneakers, his hair weave, his movies, his superhero's, his sex, his pats on the back (often in the form of a medal or a trophies), his welfare and child support, his cars, his sport teams and his jewelry..
Truth is, most of us are willing to fight to the death in order to preserve those things and like a crackhead, many of us cannot see our existence with out those things..
Matter of tact many of them would twist things and call you a coon for even suggesting that those things go directly against black independence...
Remember segregated means separated and away from, how the fuck can we have a separate economy while still being economically dependent/attached to it..
Truth is, this is not really what we want, because in reality what we really want is a black version of the white world we live in, one that is filled with Jordans, I-phones, Rolex watches and Red Lobster, but only have them owned by black people..
Sorry but thats just a pipe dream and to really have any chance at real independence many of us need to get off the pips and open our eyes....
 
Seems like real estate agents would encourage blockbusting so they can increase business. Seems like real estate agents would be happy to show black buyers properties in white neighborhoods. After a certain amount of black people move in, whites start putting homes up for sale. So they stopped doing that shit?

Also, agents can 'steer' all they want, but how do people fuck this up and get bullied with the Internet existing? It's like going to a dealership with all the Internet tools and getting hosed by a car salesmen. You can pull up information instantly on your phone and call bullshit on real estate agents and car salesmen. This isn't the fucking 1970s.
 
Most blacks will agree with this... But sorry to say, its like getting most crackheads to agree that crack is bad... Sure they will gladly tell you not to smoke crack, detailing all the harm and damage it can do to you, using themselves and torn apart lives as living testimony..
However, getting them to stop is a different story all together...
And for us, the white man is our crack..
We love his system, his money, his drugs, his guns, his toys and gadgets, his sneakers, his hair weave, his movies, his superhero's, his sex, his pats on the back (often in the form of a medal or a trophies), his welfare and child support, his cars, his sport teams and his jewelry..
Truth is, most of us are willing to fight to the death in order to preserve those things and like a crackhead, many of us cannot see our existence with out those things..
Matter of tact many of them would twist things and call you a coon for even suggesting that those things go directly against black independence...
Remember segregated means separated and away from, how the fuck can we have a separate economy while still being economically dependent/attached to it..
Truth is, this is not really what we want, because in reality what we really want is a black version of the white world we live in, one that is filled with Jordans, I-phones, Rolex watches and Red Lobster, but only have them owned by black people..
Sorry but thats just a pipe dream and to really have any chance at real independence many of us need to get off the pips and open our eyes....

You're very fast becoming totally fucking annoying..the fuck you suggest we do? Sit in a hut in the middle of the forest naked and barefoot singing kumbaya?

Damn brotha...grab a slice of reality...
 
You're very fast becoming totally fucking annoying..the fuck you suggest we do? Sit in a hut in the middle of the forest naked and barefoot singing kumbaya?

Damn brotha...grab a slice of reality...
Dude, you really need to read and learn what segregation is before you start typing some dumb shit like this...:smh:
 
Dude, you really need to read and learn what segregation is before you start typing some dumb shit like this...:smh:

This thread is about forced or coerced segregation and it's effects on the ability of the African American family to build inter-generational wealth. You in here talking about "the white man is our crack". GTFOH..
 
By 2010, affluent African-Americans had passed poor whites in potential home wealth but had fallen further behind affluent whites. There is more than money at stake, Mr. Massey and Mr. Tannen write, because home values “translate directly into access to higher quality education given that public schools in the United States are financed by real estate taxes.”

Throughout history, ethnic groups have been able to translate economic gains into housing in better neighborhoods and advantages for their children. But for African-Americans, the researchers write, that transition has been “thwarted by segregation and the prejudice and discrimination that create and maintain it.” In other words, the damage reaches across generations and continues today.

the first paragraph translated: Black people have to be RICH just to pass POOR white people in real estate wealth.

the second: Black people ARE doing for ourselves, ARE building our communities, ARE NOT looking for handouts while doing it, and white supremacists are fighting us tooth and nail all the way.
 
This thread is about forced or coerced segregation and it's effects on the ability of the African American family to build inter-generational wealth. You in here talking about "the white man is our crack". GTFOH..
You starting to sound like a crackhead who wants to stop taking crack but still wants to get high...
Because when you talk about separating from the white man, that means separating from his economics also (all his shit that he makes money off of us) and building and manufacturing our own shit... What sense does it make separating from them, then all our money is still drained out of our economy and is spent on goods that they own and produce?????
This is why I specifically said most black people don't want segregation they want a black version of the white mans world... I want separation but unlike you I know the struggles and sacrifice it would take and I know that there is no way we could achieve independence from them while still being economically dependent on their system.
 
So which is it integration hurt blacks more or segregation did ?

During segregation blacks owned businesses but with integration those businesses failed cause the white water was colder.
 
You starting to sound like a crackhead who wants to stop taking crack but still wants to get high...
Because when you talk about separating from the white man, that means separating from his economics also (all his shit that he makes money off of us) and building and manufacturing our own shit... What sense does it make separating from them, then all our money is still drained out of our economy and is spent on goods that they own and produce?????
This is why I specifically said most black people don't want segregation they want a black version of the white mans world... I want separation but unlike you I know the struggles and sacrifice it would take and I know that there is no way we could achieve independence from them while still being economically dependent on their system.

So your advocating that blacks start a whole new banking system independent of the United States and the world....but I'm the one that sounds like a crackhead. ... lol.. your a weed head aren't you?
 
So your advocating that blacks start a whole new banking system independent of the United States and the world....but I'm the one that sounds like a crackhead. ... lol.. your a weed head aren't you?
What do you think total separation is? This is what we did in Black Wall Street, plus to a degree this is what the Native Americans are doing with the Casinos and what Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey advocated..
See the reason why you cannot see a world past the white man's world is because you still have a slave mind, and it is this slave mind that prevents us from being men who are ready to stand on our own two feets, instead we rather be dependent on a system because of its comfort and how it makes us feel, no matter how much harm this system causes us...
Sir, I assure you these are the actions of every addict I ran across in my life...
 
So which is it integration hurt blacks more or segregation did ?

During segregation blacks owned businesses but with integration those businesses failed cause the white water was colder.

As my grandmother and great aunt say, who are in their 90's, anyone who says that we were better off living in segregation has never lived during segregation.
 
Nobody separated to form Black Wall Street. That was during a time of segregation and most places where separated by race. But they were not autonomous from the white US.They still had white suppliers and white customers. And contrary to what many believe Black Wall Street did not end with the massacre and burning. It rebuilt and was prosperous until the mid 60's when the civil rights movement made it obsolete and the people themselves stopped patronizing the businesses because they could shop with the white folks..

You are also cherry picking Malcolm because he did advocate being self sufficient but he didn't advocate isolation.

What do you think total separation is? This is what we did in Black Wall Street, plus to a degree this is what the Native Americans are doing with the Casinos and what Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey advocated..
See the reason why you cannot see a world past the white man's world is because you still have a slave mind, and it is this slave mind that prevents us from being men who are ready to stand on our own two feets, instead we rather be dependent on a system because of its comfort and how it makes us feel, no matter how much harm this system causes us...
Sir, I assure you these are the actions of every addict I ran across in my life...
 
As my grandmother and great aunt say, who are in their 90's, anyone who says that we were better off living in segregation has never lived during segregation.

I agree with them....My father is in his 90's and we talk often...

One of the reasons I laugh when some of these youn cats post how we are worse off now and racism is worse now than ever......simply because they see it on video.
 
What do you think total separation is? This is what we did in Black Wall Street, plus to a degree this is what the Native Americans are doing with the Casinos and what Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey advocated..

Respectfully, Black Wall Street isn't an example of total separation, it is an example of us having a better economic infrastructure (albeit a forced one) within the larger economy.

I don't disagree agree with your overall argument but BWS is a bad example.
 
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Respectfully, Black Wall Street isn't an example of total separation, it is an example of us having a better economic infrastructure (if not a forced one) within the larger economy.

I don't disagree agree with your overall argument but BWS is a bad example.

There were many communities like Black Tulsa but BWS is famous because of the massacre and burning...But it was by far not the only successful black community
 
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I agree with them....My father is in his 90's and we talk often...

One of the reasons I laugh when some of these youn cats post how we are worse off now and racism is worse now than ever......simply because they see it on video.

Cats talking to talk. Most folks talking about how bad it is wouldn't survive back in the day. We had little Italy up here in the 70s and 80s and suburbs where regular cacs attacked black people. That shit died quick as fuck. And to think that shit was people getting killed left and right in the 40s and 50s.
 
Respectfully, Black Wall Street isn't an example of total separation, it is an example of us having a better economic infrastructure (albeit a forced one) within the larger economy.

I don't disagree agree with your overall argument but BWS is a bad example.
Let me clarify the more separation we have the great the chance of economic freedom, but its a two way sword, because with freedom there is great responsibility (ask anyone who has ever ran his own business) thus there is a chance of failure also...
Freedom isn't about having more or living richer, its about having greater self determination... I said what I said to bring up the fact that most blacks that live in America are unaware of this, and see freedom as a way to get richer/have more stuff, while under scoring the more work, more responsibility and the chance of failure with no safety nets..
This is why the white man has done everything possible creating a system that makes us dependable, and why the people who are more dependent on the system black women on public assistance are the least likely to want to break away from it..
This is why so many of our youth are encouraged to have a child at a early age and are paid to be indoctrinated in the system of full dependency...
 
Nobody separated to form Black Wall Street. That was during a time of segregation and most places where separated by race. But they were not autonomous from the white US.They still had white suppliers and white customers. And contrary to what many believe Black Wall Street did not end with the massacre and burning. It rebuilt and was prosperous until the mid 60's when the civil rights movement made it obsolete and the people themselves stopped patronizing the businesses because they could shop with the white folks..

You are also cherry picking Malcolm because he did advocate being self sufficient but he didn't advocate isolation.
Malcolm was a big time separatist, anyone who read and listen to the man knows this... Mater of fact its one of the cornerstones of the N.O.I. today...
 
Which ones were not? If there is one that was not, was there one that was not colonized at some time by whites?


Ghana was not named after a white man. The British named it Gold Coast and Kwame Nkrumah changed it Ghana after an ancient African Kingdom, same as Mali. A lot of the Northern African countries have ancient names that were not named by the British, it was already in existence. As to colonialism, I agree with you, all of the African countries where colonized by Europeans.
 
Nobody separated to form Black Wall Street. That was during a time of segregation and most places where separated by race. But they were not autonomous from the white US.They still had white suppliers and white customers. And contrary to what many believe Black Wall Street did not end with the massacre and burning. It rebuilt and was prosperous until the mid 60's when the civil rights movement made it obsolete and the people themselves stopped patronizing the businesses because they could shop with the white folks..

You are also cherry picking Malcolm because he did advocate being self sufficient but he didn't advocate isolation.
bullshit. it had nothing to do with Blacks going to shop at white stores. it had EVERYTHING to do with government disruption.

"Slum clearance," as a cure for Greenwood's ills, had been discussed for years, but in 1967, Tulsa was accepted into the Federal Model Cities program.

Model Cities was not just an ordinary urban renewal program. It was intended to be an improvement over the old method of bulldozing depressed neighborhoods. The Federal government provided four dollars for every dollar of local funding, and the plan involved advisory councils of local residents and attempted to address education, economic development, and health care as well as dilapidated buildings.

For all the frills, Model Cities was still primarily an urban removal program: Save the neighborhood by destroying it. Homes and businesses were cleared for the construction of I-244 and US 75 and for assemblage into larger tracts that might attract developers. Displaced blacks moved north, into neighborhoods that had been built in the '50s for working class whites.

Only the determination of a few community leaders saved a cluster of buildings in Deep Greenwood -- but these buildings are isolated from any residential area, cut off from community.

Years later, Jobie Holderness reflected on the spiritual damage done by urban renewal:

"Urban renewal not only took away our property, but something else more important -- our black unity, our pride, our sense of achievement and history. We need to regain that. Our youth missed that and that is why they are lost today, that is why they are in 'limbo' now."

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2011/05/the-1921-tulsa-race-riot-and-the.html
 
Malcolm was a big time separatist, anyone who read and listen to the man knows this... Mater of fact its one of the cornerstones of the N.O.I. today...

Malcolm early on was preaching the doctrine of Elijah. Before his assassination after he broke from the NOI he was not a separatist.

believing in doing for self and having your own and doing for yourself and building your community is not synonymous with being a separatist
 
bullshit. it had nothing to do with Blacks going to shop at white stores. it had EVERYTHING to do with government disruption.

"Slum clearance," as a cure for Greenwood's ills, had been discussed for years, but in 1967, Tulsa was accepted into the Federal Model Cities program.

Model Cities was not just an ordinary urban renewal program. It was intended to be an improvement over the old method of bulldozing depressed neighborhoods. The Federal government provided four dollars for every dollar of local funding, and the plan involved advisory councils of local residents and attempted to address education, economic development, and health care as well as dilapidated buildings.

For all the frills, Model Cities was still primarily an urban removal program: Save the neighborhood by destroying it. Homes and businesses were cleared for the construction of I-244 and US 75 and for assemblage into larger tracts that might attract developers. Displaced blacks moved north, into neighborhoods that had been built in the '50s for working class whites.

Only the determination of a few community leaders saved a cluster of buildings in Deep Greenwood -- but these buildings are isolated from any residential area, cut off from community.

Years later, Jobie Holderness reflected on the spiritual damage done by urban renewal:

"Urban renewal not only took away our property, but something else more important -- our black unity, our pride, our sense of achievement and history. We need to regain that. Our youth missed that and that is why they are lost today, that is why they are in 'limbo' now."

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2011/05/the-1921-tulsa-race-riot-and-the.html


Within five years after the massacre, surviving residents who chose to remain in Tulsa rebuilt much of the district. They accomplished this despite the opposition of many white Tulsa political and business leaders. It resumed being a vital black community until segregation was overturned by the Federal Government during the 1950s and 1960s. Desegregationencouraged blacks to live and shop elsewhere in the city, causing Greenwood to lose much of its original vitality. Since then, city leaders have attempted to encourage other economic development activity nearby.


And this is before Model Cities.
 
Malcolm early on was preaching the doctrine of Elijah. Before his assassination after he broke from the NOI he was not a separatist.

believing in doing for self and having your own and doing for yourself and building your community is not synonymous with being a separatist

Forward to the 8:35 mark......
 
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