Kendrick Perkins on LBJ legacy - "A couple of more titles and that's it."

Wilt was great...but moreso in the sense that Shaq was great. The kind of freak of nature dominant force you maybe see once a generation. A legend....an all time great....but not to be mentioned with the Bill Russells, Michael Jordans and such.

Grouping Shaq with Wilt is more unfair than grouping Dwight Howard with Shaq. Shaq led the league in scoring 2 times and never led the league in rebounding. Wilt led the league in scoring 7 straight years and led the league in rebounds in 11 of his 13 seasons. Wilt NEVER fouled out of any NBA game regular season or playoffs, Shaq was not as disciplined defensively and fouled out of 65 games (11 in the playoffs). Shaq once scored 61, Wilt scored over 60 points 32 different times. Shaq has 2 triple doubles to his credit, Wilt has 78. Wilt was also a much better conditioned athlete than him, leading the league in minutes played a record 8 times. Shaq never led the league in minutes played. Wilt played in 47 straight complete games 1 year, Shaq only played in 1 complete game his rookie season.
 
Lets keep it real, Kobe Lakers beat the Nets, Pacers, Magic, 76ers, and Boston... Out of all those teams only Boston would have made the playoffs in the west this year, and perhaps only the Magic would have made it in the East... While LeBron beat the Spurs (the only team to beat them) and OKC with three MVP type guys on that team...
 
Lets keep it real, Kobe Lakers beat the Nets, Pacers, Magic, 76ers, and Boston... Out of all those teams only Boston would have made the playoffs in the west this year, and perhaps only the Magic would have made it in the East... While LeBron beat the Spurs (the only team to beat them) and OKC with three MVP type guys on that team...

Lets keep it real....Bron beat a young unseasoned OKC team and pretty much got beat by the Spurs that year til they beat themselves.
 
Grouping Shaq with Wilt is more unfair than grouping Dwight Howard with Shaq. Shaq led the league in scoring 2 times and never led the league in rebounding. Wilt led the league in scoring 7 straight years and led the league in rebounds in 11 of his 13 seasons. Wilt NEVER fouled out of any NBA game regular season or playoffs, Shaq was not as disciplined defensively and fouled out of 65 games (11 in the playoffs). Shaq once scored 61, Wilt scored over 60 points 32 different times. Shaq has 2 triple doubles to his credit, Wilt has 78. Wilt was also a much better conditioned athlete than him, leading the league in minutes played a record 8 times. Shaq never led the league in minutes played. Wilt played in 47 straight complete games 1 year, Shaq only played in 1 complete game his rookie season.

I already qualified why I made the comparison...physical dominance....once a generation type player. If either Wilt or Shaq played in the others era the numbers might look the same or drastically different....which is why I try not to do straight up comparisons between players of different eras.
 
Lets keep it real....Bron beat a young unseasoned OKC team and pretty much got beat by the Spurs that year til they beat themselves.

That OKC ran through the big bad West like gangbusters, so did the the Spurs team..
The different between the Heat teams that lost and the ones that won were the two that lost didn't have enough jump shooters to open the lanes for LeBron and Wade, simple put...
Even with the Cavs, they never lose once they start hitting the three point shots, opening lanes..
Matter of fact the 4 teams left are the teams that shoot and hit the most 3 points in the NBA, thats the big difference in todays game, if you can't hit that outside shot, most teams will pack the paint with these tall ass, lanky, long arm, fast foot, guys, who will not only pack the paint, but are quick enough to slide over and get the charge call..
Back in Jordans day, they had big slow trees who would actually try to block the shot... This is why back then there were so many kats attacking the hole... Now there about a handful and 90% of them are guards who are quick enough to evade the tall lanky players in the paint, but only after they are cleared out the way with the outside shooting..
Name one guy in the nba who is successful at attacking the rim, today, who doesn't play on a team filled with jump shooters..
 
That OKC ran through the big bad West like gangbusters, so did the the Spurs team..
The different between the Heat teams that lost and the ones that won were the two that lost didn't have enough jump shooters to open the lanes for LeBron and Wade, simple put...
Even with the Cavs, they never lose once they start hitting the three point shots, opening lanes..
Matter of fact the 4 teams left are the teams that shoot and hit the most 3 points in the NBA, thats the big difference in todays game, if you can't hit that outside shot, most teams will pack the paint with these tall ass, lanky, long arm, fast foot, guys, who will not only pack the paint, but are quick enough to slide over and get the charge call..
Back in Jordans day, they had big slow trees who would actually try to block the shot... This is why back then there were so many kats attacking the hole... Now there about a handful and 90% of them are guards who are quick enough to evade the tall lanky players in the paint, but only after they are cleared out the way with the outside shooting..
Name one guy in the nba who is successful at attacking the rim, today, who doesn't play on a team filled with jump shooters..

Your assessment of the league, I pretty much agree with. I think the only point where I disagree is the Spurs team that lost to Miami....they gave that one away....thats a little different than saying Bron beat them. From my experience....it was the same show 2 yrs in a row with the Spurs for the most part embarrassing Miami. Only difference is one of those years the Spurs let their Achiles heel...Manu....do what only he can do....the next year they corrected that. I also kinda feel like in your earlier statement about the OKC team you were giving them dudes props for the players they would become moreso than who they were at the time. Yes...that young OKC team was hard and did run through the West....but they were young and unseasoned....not the players they are today. All in all....the fact remains that Jordan beat the powerhouses of his day in deciding fashion...which were all time powerhouses. Had I seen Bron do that...in deciding fashion like I saw Jordan do...my assessment of him overall would probably be different. To his credit...he still has more time. We shall see.
 
I don't care if Lebron wins 10 more rings. He will never be better than Jordan!!

Jordan is basketball. Fuck lebron wears what number?
 
Bron lost championships with players on par with or better than the players MJ had.[/b]

So are you saying that the 2012 and 2013 Heat were a better team than any of Jordan's championship teams? Because Bron won with those same players in those years. You say his guys were on par or better. Dwyane Wade & Chris Bosh are better than Scottie Pippen & Dennis Rodman? Erik Spoelstra is a better coach than Phil Jackson?

I would say that the sum of Dallas/San Antonio's teams were greater than Miami's parts....but the individual breakdown gives the advantage to Miami in both cases...

Dallas had the highest payroll in the league in 2011 and a better team. They swept the defending champion Lakers. Heat werent even supposed to make the Finals that year, people had Boston & Chicago beating them. As for San Antonio they had the best team last year, and Duncan was playing with 2 future HOFers (Parker & Ginobili) in 2014 yet people dont beat him up about having all this talent like they do LeBron.

is that in both losing series' Bron looked like he had lost. You never....ever....EVER saw Jordan look like he had lost in the finals.

Jordan never ever faced a team as good as the Spurs in the Finals either. No team he saw had that kind of championship pedigree. And Jordan has plenty of moments he looked lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds of his career. He looked lost in the 95 playoffs passing up last second shots and turning the ball over late in games. Jordan has elimination games he went scoreless in 4th quarters. Just because they didnt happen in the Finals doesnt make them less egregious. Just getting to a Finals is an accomplishment.

I've seen Bron...on multiple occasions....display the demeanor of a man defeated. I cant recall ever seeing that from Jordan.

He looked defeated in 86, getting swept by the C's and scoring only 19 points in the elimination game. We saw him look defeated against the Pistons plenty times. He also looked defeated in 95 vs. the Magic. You pretend like Jordan played 6 seasons. :lol: There's a lot more history to his career than the 6 times he won it, there's the 9 years he didnt and wasnt good enough to get to a Finals.

To go further the length....Kobe had that never give up streak in him in a way more comparable to Jordan.

Kobe really has no place in this discussion. The fact Jordan can be likened to another player like Kobe weakens his GOAT argument. There's no other player comparable to Wilt, to Russell, or interchangeable with Kareem, and even LeBron. Yet Kobe was able to win 5 titles, playing under the same coach, in the same system as MJ and they're constantly referenced with each other. The truly legendary players in this game cant be so easily duplicated.
 
Your assessment of the league, I pretty much agree with. I think the only point where I disagree is the Spurs team that lost to Miami....they gave that one away....thats a little different than saying Bron beat them. From my experience....it was the same show 2 yrs in a row with the Spurs for the most part embarrassing Miami. Only difference is one of those years the Spurs let their Achiles heel...Manu....do what only he can do....the next year they corrected that. I also kinda feel like in your earlier statement about the OKC team you were giving them dudes props for the players they would become moreso than who they were at the time. Yes...that young OKC team was hard and did run through the West....but they were young and unseasoned....not the players they are today. All in all....the fact remains that Jordan beat the powerhouses of his day in deciding fashion...which were all time powerhouses. Had I seen Bron do that...in deciding fashion like I saw Jordan do...my assessment of him overall would probably be different. To his credit...he still has more time. We shall see.

That Heat team did certain things very very well but they had a few faults, number one, they were one of the worst rebounding teams I've seen in the finals, and with out Miller, their only reliable outside shooter was Allen who better days were behind him... When they lost against the Spurs, Bosh had a off shooting series, Rio was invisible, Allen had retired already, Jones wasn't used, Cole is not a good outside shooter, so with no jump shootes the Spurs was free to pack the paint making it impossible for Wade and LeBron to attack the rim..
The year before, they were able to beat that same Spurs team, with a younger Allen, Miller and even Chalmers shooting from the outside allowing the lanes to open up..
While everybody was noticing the play of LeBron, I noticed how his teammates came to play, allowing him to take over..
Mark my words, nobody is going to win in todays game, with out jump shooters freeing up lanes..
 
Now for those who are thinking, packing the paint and zones would not have slowed Jordan down, check out how the Pistons were allowed to cheat, and play a pseudo zone, and how it impacted Jordans game, back then...
Now imagine if they were allowed to play it with two 7 foot guys the way Dallas and the Spurs were allowed to do...
 
I already qualified why I made the comparison...physical dominance....once a generation type player. If either Wilt or Shaq played in the others era the numbers might look the same or drastically different....which is why I try not to do straight up comparisons between players of different eras.

Wilt's greatness was not based on just physical dominance though. He was highly skilled. To lead the league in assists at the Center position you have to be. Only 3 players have more triple doubles than Wilt, and all 3 are point guards, that is SKILL. One of the criticisms Wilt faced his entire career was that he was too over concerned with showcasing his "finesse", he wanted to prove it wasnt just sheer strength. So he would shoot fadeaways, jumpshots, hook shots, etc. Wilt's signature shot was his "dip" shot, not a dunk. Shaq was the complete opposite, in his prime he basically barreled over guys to score and dunk the ball. Shaq never had the drive it took to lead the league in rebounding. But most 7 footers dont. To this day the league leader in rebounds is normally NOT a 7 footer or the tallest and biggest guy in the league (ex: Love, Dwight, DeAndre). The fact Wilt did it 11 times and has the most in history is remarkable.
 
So are you saying that the 2012 and 2013 Heat were a better team than any of Jordan's championship teams? Because Bron won with those same players in those years. You say his guys were on par or better. Dwyane Wade & Chris Bosh are better than Scottie Pippen & Dennis Rodman? Erik Spoelstra is a better coach than Phil Jackson?

yeah...I'm sayin that...comparable for the different eras. And as far as Jackson...I already addressed my thoughts on him earlier. Spoelstra could have that record or close to it with the teams Jackson coached. Shit...you could.



Dallas had the highest payroll in the league in 2011 and a better team. They swept the defending champion Lakers. Heat werent even supposed to make the Finals that year, people had Boston & Chicago beating them. As for San Antonio they had the best team last year, and Duncan was playing with 2 future HOFers (Parker & Ginobili) in 2014 yet people dont beat him up about having all this talent like they do LeBron.

Dirk and Duncan had players no doubt....they didnt have a Wade or a Bosh though. If you saying the payroll says they did, I'll let you make that argument.



Jordan never ever faced a team as good as the Spurs in the Finals either. No team he saw had that kind of championship pedigree. And Jordan has plenty of moments he looked lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds of his career. He looked lost in the 95 playoffs passing up last second shots and turning the ball over late in games. Jordan has elimination games he went scoreless in 4th quarters. Just because they didnt happen in the Finals doesnt make them less egregious. Just getting to a Finals is an accomplishment.

He looked defeated in 86, getting swept by the C's and scoring only 19 points in the elimination game. We saw him look defeated against the Pistons plenty times. He also looked defeated in 95 vs. the Magic. You pretend like Jordan played 6 seasons. :lol: There's a lot more history to his career than the 6 times he won it, there's the 9 years he didnt and wasnt good enough to get to a Finals.


Jordan took L's. But like I said, I dont remember him ever looking like a dude who had accepted defeat. Those are two different things. If you recall that from MJ, then I need to see that footage to refresh my memory.


Kobe really has no place in this discussion. The fact Jordan can be likened to another player like Kobe weakens his GOAT argument. There's no other player comparable to Wilt, to Russell, or interchangeable with Kareem, and even LeBron. Yet Kobe was able to win 5 titles, playing under the same coach, in the same system as MJ and they're constantly referenced with each other. The truly legendary players in this game cant be so easily duplicated.

Here you sound retarded...and I'm saying this excusing the normal degree of retardation and dickriding we've all come to expect from you. Kobe being able to be compared to Jordan weakens Jordans argument huh? So...who will Bron and every other great player of this era be compared to forever...if they're lucky? JORDAN....who remains the gold standard for NBA champions in the modern era.

Bron is a phenomenon, no doubt. Maybe the greatest athlete to play the game thus far. But on the court...in the championships...his output has yet to catch up to his potential. And as I've said before...he still has time so we'll see how it goes. But I've seen quit in him on a level I dont recall seeing in the ones I consider the GOATs. But hey....its all opinion and perspective. There's room for all...even the ones I consider retarded. :lol:
 
Here you sound retarded...and I'm saying this excusing the normal degree of retardation and dickriding we've all come to expect from you. Kobe being able to be compared to Jordan weakens Jordans argument huh? So...who will Bron and every other great player of this era be compared to forever...if they're lucky? JORDAN....who remains the gold standard for NBA champions in the modern era

You accuse me of dickriding but you call Jordan the "gold standard" of NBA champions when he dont even got the most championships in his era. There are guys in other eras that have far more, guys that won titles with 2 different franchises. Jordan won titles with 1 team (he played for 2) and 1 particular coach (he had 3 other coaches). Kobe mimicked Jordan in that same system with the same coach and went to even more Finals than he did. Kobe and Jordan are frequently mentioned in the same breath. Who mimicked Russell? Who mimicked Wilt? Who mimicked Kareem? Those guys cant be mimicked. The fact Jordan could, says alot.
 
You accuse me of dickriding but you call Jordan the "gold standard" of NBA champions when he dont even got the most championships in his era. There are guys in other eras that have far more, guys that won titles with 2 different franchises. Jordan won titles with 1 team (he played for 2) and 1 particular coach (he had 3 other coaches). Kobe mimicked Jordan in that same system with the same coach and went to even more Finals than he did. Kobe and Jordan are frequently mentioned in the same breath. Who mimicked Russell? Who mimicked Wilt? Who mimicked Kareem? Those guys cant be mimicked. The fact Jordan could, says alot.

point me to the threads...the interviews...the anything comparing Bron to Russell, Wilt or Kareem to the extent that he's compared to Jordan....that ANY great player in the modern era is compared to Jordan. You cant cuz they dont exist in the same frequency here or anywhere. The reason...Jordan is wide and by far considered the gold standard of NBA champion in the modern era. If you want to argue that point...I'll leave you to punch at shadows til your heart is contented.
 
point me to the threads...the interviews...the anything comparing Bron to Russell, Wilt or Kareem to the extent that he's compared to Jordan....that ANY great player in the modern era is compared to Jordan. You cant cuz they dont exist in the same frequency here or anywhere. The reason...Jordan is wide and by far considered the gold standard of NBA champion in the modern era. If you want to argue that point...I'll leave you to punch at shadows til your heart is contented.

Dickriding at its finest.

Jordan is the most marketable athlete in NBA history and the greatest shoe salesman of all time, but he DOES NOT have the most championships in his era, that is a FACT. What the hell is the "modern era" anyway? Let me guess 1984 to the present right? Scottie Pippen has 6 rings and is 6-0 in the Finals too dude. This is the problem with you Jordan fanatics, you have a very limited scope of NBA history and base everything on a narrative of Jordan only playing 6 seasons in the NBA. And you only value HIS rings, while ignoring a lot of other top 50 HOFers. Bill Russell is universally accepted as the greatest champion in NBA history as his 11 titles attest, might be why the Finals MVP is named after him and he awards it to the NBA champion yearly, NOT Michael Jordan.
 
Dickriding at its finest.

Jordan is the most marketable athlete in NBA history and the greatest shoe salesman of all time, but he DOES NOT have the most championships in his era, that is a FACT. What the hell is the "modern era" anyway? Let me guess 1984 to the present right? Scottie Pippen has 6 rings and is 6-0 in the Finals too dude. This is the problem with you Jordan fanatics, you have a very limited scope of NBA history and base everything on a narrative of Jordan only playing 6 seasons in the NBA. And you only value HIS rings, while ignoring a lot of other top 50 HOFers. Bill Russell is universally accepted as the greatest champion in NBA history as his 11 titles attest, might be why the Finals MVP is named after him and he awards it to the NBA champion yearly, NOT Michael Jordan.

I would define the modern era as the era that most people commenting were actually alive to witness. In the years I've been watching, Jordan is the greatest. I give Russell all props due and recognize his achievements and include him in any comments I make about all time greatest...but I cant speak on his game like I can Jordan's cuz I didnt see it happen in real time. Furthermore...I present my opinions on the game and the players that play as that...my opinions. I give room for all....even yours. But some things come down to a point where the argument isnt even worth having....like Jordan being the greatest of the modern era.

As to your other comments....if you really think there was another player in Jordan's era better...make that argument. Robert Horry got mad rings....you saying he's better than Jordan? Im not really seeing your point there.
 
I'm a big Jordan fan, but if LeBron can pull off winning a championship with the cast of characters he has in Cleveland. We have to start at least having the "who's better" conversation.
 
True....when he came back from retirement. Bron had one of the hardest squads the league has ever seen in Miami and got embarrassed in the finals 3/4 yrs. what's your point?


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If you think that Heat team was all time great we really have nothing else to talk about, sir.

PS: they won 2 out of 4 and the only reason it wasn't 4 out of 4 is Wade thought he was gonna ride the LBJ train into basketball immortality and Bosh is a bitch.
 
fuck rings...dude took boobie fucking gibson to the finals...just let that sink in. I don't even remember them other mufuckas names other than Verajao.

this year...barring some miraculous comeback by atlanta he bout to take JR smith, shumpert and fuckin Delavadova to the finals.

I'm just enjoyin the show. All the Jordan talk need to stop but it never will. Dude ain't even finished his career yet.

As far as em gettin past GW I did'nt think they'd be able to get past Atlanta with a healthy Kyrie.
 
fuck rings...dude took boobie fucking gibson to the finals...just let that sink in. I don't even remember them other mufuckas names other than Verajao.

this year...barring some miraculous comeback by atlanta he bout to take JR smith, shumpert and fuckin Delavadova to the finals.

Exactly. I hate that basketball greatness has been reduced to the amount of rings you have. That shit didn't start until Jordan and his fanboys came along. Anybody with a lick of sense, that actually watches the game, and doesn't idolize another grown ass man would see that there is no comparison between Jordan and LBJ. To be honest it's not even close. Jordan is an inferior basketball player to Lebron James.
 
Exactly. I hate that basketball greatness has been reduced to the amount of rings you have. That shit didn't start until Jordan and his fanboys came along. Anybody with a lick of sense, that actually watches the game, and doesn't idolize another grown ass man would see that there is no comparison between Jordan and LBJ. To be honest it's not even close. Jordan is an inferior basketball player to Lebron James.

I would'nt go that far. I'd say Lebron is more versatile as far as being able to play damn near any position on the floor but man when you factor in the mental...I give it to Jordan even tho I've seen Lebron grow in that dept by leaps and bounds since he came in the league. I remember Bron dancin on the sidelines.lol. It doesn't take away from his talent or abilities but Jordan was so competitive he was on another plane mentally.
 
they players to come are supposed to be better.
Bron had Jordan to watch
the ones that will come later will have had
Jordan, Kobe and Bron to watch and will be better
 
I would'nt go that far. I'd say Lebron is more versatile as far as being able to play damn near any position on the floor but man when you factor in the mental...I give it to Jordan even tho I've seen Lebron grow in that dept by leaps and bounds since he came in the league. I remember Bron dancin on the sidelines.lol. It doesn't take away from his talent or abilities but Jordan was so competitive he was on another plane mentally.

I feel you. That may have been true of young Lebron but now? He's had to carry teams and deal with all sorts of ridiculous criticism for 11 years. I'd put him on par with Jordan mentally at this point. The man dropped 37, 18, and 13 in a playoff game that he probably should've sat out. Jordan never did that fully healthy.
 
I feel you. That may have been true of young Lebron but now? He's had to carry teams and deal with all sorts of ridiculous criticism for 11 years. I'd put him on par with Jordan mentally at this point. The man dropped 37, 18, and 13 in a playoff game that he probably should've sat out. Jordan never did that fully healthy.

My bad. That's the point I was trying to make is that Lebron has grown A LOT mentally since he came in the league. You can actually see dude goin from Padawan to Jedi Master.lol
 
Peyton don't got 2 rings between 2 different franchises. r.

He was a role player on the 2nd title. He wasn't even one of the best two players on the team.

He averaged 30 points per game in the regular season and 22 points per game in the playoffs. During the second title, he was pretty much Dennis Rodman. Just like Peyton Manning...regular season gawd... he wasn't going to carry you deep in the playoffs..just like Peyton.

Lebron is already better than Wilt.
 
These 90s babies and their desperation to be in conversations. First Kobe now LeBron. Deal with it niggas. Jordan will always be the GOAT. Today all these touch fouls made the game weak. No hand checks. Jordan would score 70 per game in this era.
 
These 90s babies and their desperation to be in conversations. First Kobe now LeBron. Deal with it niggas. Jordan will always be the GOAT. Today all these touch fouls made the game weak. No hand checks. Jordan would score 70 per game in this era.

No it's you '60s babies that need to get a grip.
 
They kicking niggas out the game for throwing elbows and shit now

Even suspending them sometimes

The game was rougher back then but now the game is more dangerous.
Now let me explain...
Back then the game was much more physical, but this went both ways, back then a center and a pf was more likely to try to block your shot once you drove down the lane, but back then if you had size you was able to protect yourself if you was the ball carrier, with your elbows and legs... If you notice players like Karl Malone, Mason and even Jordan, after he bulked up, never got fucked with, it was the players who was weak and could not protect themselvs that caught it bad..
A big ass player like LeBron would have no problems back then, because if you remember how he knocked the fuck out of Hibbert with his elbow, understand this, back then that would have been ok and a motherfucker would think twice about trying to get overly physical with todays big players like LeBron and Blake..
Now the reason why todays game is more dangerous, is because players no longer go for the block, instead you have skinnier, yet lankier, faster kats with longer arms, and faster feet, packing the paint, and sliding in front of drivers, trying to draw the charge..

This is way more dangerous because the guy driving to the paint is unable to protect himself, and the bigger you are the more voulnerable you are, yet the smaller you are the more fucked up you can get... This is why in todays NBA you don't see too many Domoniques or Dr J's, forwards who are able to constantly attack the rim off the dribble.. If they were to play today, they would most likely foul out every game with charge calls... Instead, now you have the smaller gaurds attacking the rim and are the ones leading the league in scoring..The reason why, is because they are the only ones fast enough to elude the new breed, Foward/Center/PF hybrids.. Shit some teams have three or even 4 of these guys on the court at the same time, clogging up the lanes..
As the result, teams are forced to load up with outside shooters and risk injuries when they do decide to attack the rim..
This of course favors the taller, weaker Euro-trash player, who is used to jump shooting first..
 
Back in the late 90's the NBA announced that they wanted a more international league and more parity... To me, I took it that they never wanted another Jordan type of player who was bigger than the league instead wanting more Euro trash players, so they set forth to creating a league that had rules to favor them while punishing the traditional athletic black players..
What they didn't count on was black players adapting to the new changes by becoming such great outside shooters (back then it was actually believed that white players shot better from the outside), and that a player like LeBron would come along and defy what the league wants and win in spite of these wack ass new rules..
 
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