Who was worse -- Stalin or Hitler?
- Thread starter Manzz
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Stalin… He fucked over Russia and his own family.
Manzz
Banned
c/s
One of the big problems comparing the two is that the Soviet records of what Stalin ACTUALLY did in detail were mostly destroyed or are still deeply hidden, and all we have are for the most part assumptions or generalizations. The same is true for Hitler, but we have a tad bit more information on Hitler because his atrocities were sort of limited to a single event in a shorter time period, which is easier to research and study than the decades of power Stalin ultimately had. The Allies also militarily defeated the Nazi party, which meant they had the ability to capture documents and question high ranking officials. No one ever had that opportunity with Stalin or the USSR, so the only records we have are those that were released by the Russian government or are stories told by individuals.
As for me personally, I tend to go with Stalin, because his ways were much more brutal. He simply killed millions of people openly, yet eventually killed even more through the prison system and Gulag work camps, both of which are extremely difficult to estimate due to lack of accurate historical records. Plus, and trust me I know this sounds absolutely horrible, but Hitler had a reasoning, however sick, crazy and irrational, behind what he did (he had a crazy motivation that he insanely thought would benefit his people), whereas Stalin just killed a bunch of people based on numbers he read on a sheet, out of paranoia to hold power. There are some accounts which say that he would go through the orders (the orders to have people killed) in the evening, and he would always yell "More! More!" He didn't really have a reasoning or anything like that behind the majority of the people he had killed, other than the fact that he just wanted the number of dead to be higher. He did kill some key people, mostly members of the Soviet power structure, but most were just regular people.
The death toll of Stalin is truly immeasurable. The Gulags and prisons killed many we don't even know of. So did many of the pointless marches, in which he would just decide to have a whole town uprooted and moved (usually during winter, because he knew a certain amount would die during the move due to the cold and the lack of food and water; kind of like the Trail of Tears in America).
Hitler was worse. Had he won, and had his notions of race come to pass, only whites and Asians would exist. Remember, he deemed Blacks as an unsustainable race: He sterilized Black Germans and would have done the same to all people of African decent throughout the world.
He wasn't Finna bring that shit ova here famo
Manzz
Banned
Stalin a million times. He even killed his own brother and advisors since he didn't trust them, he ordered anyone who retreated to be killed and he sent off like 1 person out of 10 with a gun and he didn't care. He was the definition of ruthless and tyrannical. His willingness to sacrifice anyone and everything to win is what you can consider evil.
Hitler wasn't really evil. What's the worst thing he did? Conquer territory? Which country hasn't? Put people in camps? Many did pretty much same thing. Ordered mass genocide? Many countries have. I really don't see how Nazi Germany is worse than say the United States, Russia, Japan, UK, etc. Heck, even my own country did some very questionable things in Indonesia after WWII. No country is perfect, so I don't think Nazi Germany is somehow the pinnacle of evil. That's just horrible propaganda the US has been very succesfull in spreading since WWII, history is written by the victor and all that.
In the end, at least Hitler cared for his own people and wanted to help them live in prosperity. Can't say the same for Stalin, he didn't care about his own people.
Nazi Germany's politics under Hitler aren't worse than the US genocide on the native americans. Many countries have commited similar genocide and gotten away with it simply because time forgets many things. The reason so many people still remember the things the Nazis did is because it's relatively recent AND because the US propaganda machine abused it so nobody would look at their history.
Basically, the Nazis are used as scapegoats. That doesn't take away that what they did was horrible, but many others did the same things and yet everyone focuses on the Nazis. I just think that's a little unfair.
Hitler wasn't really evil. What's the worst thing he did? Conquer territory? Which country hasn't? Put people in camps? Many did pretty much same thing. Ordered mass genocide? Many countries have. I really don't see how Nazi Germany is worse than say the United States, Russia, Japan, UK, etc. Heck, even my own country did some very questionable things in Indonesia after WWII. No country is perfect, so I don't think Nazi Germany is somehow the pinnacle of evil. That's just horrible propaganda the US has been very succesfull in spreading since WWII, history is written by the victor and all that.
In the end, at least Hitler cared for his own people and wanted to help them live in prosperity. Can't say the same for Stalin, he didn't care about his own people.
Nazi Germany's politics under Hitler aren't worse than the US genocide on the native americans. Many countries have commited similar genocide and gotten away with it simply because time forgets many things. The reason so many people still remember the things the Nazis did is because it's relatively recent AND because the US propaganda machine abused it so nobody would look at their history.
Basically, the Nazis are used as scapegoats. That doesn't take away that what they did was horrible, but many others did the same things and yet everyone focuses on the Nazis. I just think that's a little unfair.
Christopher Columbus!
Columbus and his men hunted Natives with war-dogs.
You're comparing what he wanted to do to what Stalin actually did. Btw, he wasn't to cool with us blacks either.
Hitler did sterilize all people of African descent in Germany and Austria. As far as Stalin and people of African descent goes, I don't buy it--i.e., please provide proof. I've always favored Communism over Capitalism partly because of the way former advocates equality amongst its workers.
For example, Robert Nathaniel Robinson was a Black American who went abroad to work in Stalin's Russia. Until Germany invaded Russia, Robert prospered in Stalin's Soviet Union and was an example of how Communism supports racial equality. In fact, I suspect he's partly responsible for why so many Black's supported Communism in America in the late 50's and 60's.
Interesting point of view here. I have always said the US has a dark history (slavery) and the only difference between us and Germany is that we were not conquered at the height of our evil. We maintained our evil for a couple hundred years and then learned better. Perhaps Germany would have as well and moved past the pesky days of genocide. Hitler was truly demonized by the US and the jews, rightfully so in some ways I might add.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7_TV5vctEog" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Really, really, good documentary. Thanks. I wish it was longer, though, and described how race relations are now for people of African descent who live there. Like I said, I've long had a fascination with Russia. All I read is Russian literature (I'm reading The Idiot now). Long story short, visiting Russia is on my bucket list; but, I don't want to go there if I know I won't be welcomed.
You and her both:
source: Wikipedia
Nkeirouka Khilarievna "Kira" Ezekh (Russian: Нкеирука (Кира) Хилариевна Езех; born October 17, 1983 in Moscow) is a Russian curler.
At the 2006 Winter Olympics, in Turin, Italy, she was part of Ludmila Privivkova's team. A year later her team won the 2006 European Curling Championships. She also represented Russia in the 2010 Vancouver Olympics as second on Privivkova's team.
Her father is of Nigerian Igbo descent, and her mother of Chuvash.
source: Atlanta Black Star
8 of the Worst Countries For Black People to Travel
Russia
Black visitors will also have to be extra careful when they venture outside of Moscow into the rest of Russia. In a chilling warning, the Russia expert of New Republic, Julie Ioffe, said, “There’s quite a bit of violence against people considered to be Black” in Russia, raising new fears about the safety of Olympic athletes, visitors and media attending the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Ioffe warned that nowhere in Russia is safe for a person of color to visit, outside of Moscow’s city center.
During an “Ask Me Anything” discussion on the social media site Reddit, Ioffe was asked by a Black college student whether it is safe for an African-American to study in Russia.
Here’s her answer:
“Hmmmm, that’s a tough one. I think that, for the most part, you’d be okay — if you consider people glaring at you and cracking racist jokes okay. (Russians are, er, not the most tolerant bunch.) There’s quite a bit of violence against people considered to be black, which includes, in the Russian mind, people from Central Asia and the Caucasus. My advice is go, but stick to the city center and try to go to a bigger city like Moscow. (St. Pete is crawling with skinheads.) Be extra, extra careful and make sure the American Embassy knows you’re there. They have a special unit to deal with threats to American citizens, so you should report anything that happens immediately.”
Manzz
Banned
yep
At that time, almost all national leaders were more or less crazy and ready to do whatever is necessary to win the war and dominate the situation. Hitler wasn't that different from others.
Germany wasn't the only country oppressing/killing Jews. 1930's, USA and black people - the situation was far worse for black people than Jews in Europe. If things had escalated between blacks and whites in the USA even further...we might have had another holocaust in addition to the nazi Germany & Jews, USA & native Americans, Russia & Jews, Pol Pot in Cambodia, Hutu & Tutsi in Rwanda....
Look at Britain for instance. Concentration camps in Kenya and still no official apology 50-60 years later.
I read somewhere that Hitler didn't exactly want to directly control most of the world. He wanted to create a greater Germany that was essentially Germany, Austria, Poland, and a large sway of western Russia (a few other nations in there as well that exist now but not so much then). This was to incorporate most of the Germanic peoples and then of course clean out all the non-Germanic peoples in the other lands so they could expand into them.
The rest of the nations like France, Britain, and most of the rest of western Europe were going to be turned more or less into vassal states (this includes their Empire's at the time). They would govern themselves with Nazi style governments and the allied with Germany but not exactly part of Germany. It was to create a free trade and militarily allied Europe under the lead of Germany, but council by itself in a VERY EU way. Almost exact with the Europe wide elected parliament, council of ministers, and the other one that is the heads of state minus the rotation part here since it would always be headed by Germany. This would have also likely extend beyond Europe due to the major powers Empire's at the time.
Oh yeah, and Technologicly and medicly we would have been way further. But for humanity and for the sake's of nature's rule of diversity it would be a stop halt in evolution. Unless ofcours that technology can force nature eventually.
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this is like asking which shit smells worse, the one with the corn or the one with the peanuts.
C/S.
Asking folks to choose between two racist/white supremacists...
gr0ve
Banned
This is propaganda made for the most least intellectually aware people.
The Evil music and outright small, narrow perception intended to give should be known to people before their indoctrination - i view this as being against human rights to choose their own opinions, beliefs and thoughts on matters.
- If anything at least provide factual information and not theories on personal lives, thoughts and feelings which are ALL subjective - something that shouldn't be passed as objective information. -
The Evil music and outright small, narrow perception intended to give should be known to people before their indoctrination - i view this as being against human rights to choose their own opinions, beliefs and thoughts on matters.
- If anything at least provide factual information and not theories on personal lives, thoughts and feelings which are ALL subjective - something that shouldn't be passed as objective information. -
Neither was as evil as the people whom served them. Kwame Ture always said the western world looks to make a single person the focus of all love or all hate. A revolution be it negative or positive is carried out by like minded people. You put Hitler in a Jewish community by himself speaking of Jewish evils he would get his ass whooped and killed, Same is true of Stalin but you surround both these men with people whom believe as they do and you have a revolution and the means to carry out all kinds of evil in the name of whatever.
Things Hitler did wrong. Oh boy! Where do I even begin?
1. Invading the Soviet Union without finishing off Britain
2. Stopped bombing runways during the Battle Britain and started trying to bomb houses despite lacking a proper heavy bomber like the American B29
3. Committing genocide on Soviet Slavs and Poles for bullshit racial ideology when MANY people hated Stalin and would have joined Germany instead of forming partisans that fought to the death.
4. Executing over 80% of Soviet POWS, which convinced the Soviets to stop surrendering after 1941. Germany beat Russia in WW1 because millions of Russian soldiers threw down their arms and surrendered. When your opponent outnumbers you two to one, it is in your best interest for them to surrender and NOT fight to the death. This is basic fucking logic.
5. Wasting money on "rail guns", laughable tank projects like the Mouse, and other "Wunderweapons" rather than focus on cranking out basic designs in large numbers. The Panther 4 was a great tank, the King Tiger was a logistical nightmare.
6. Overstretching supply lines and constantly showing zero regard for logistics. Winter clothes? fuck em. We don't need that shit, we have balls!
7. Declaring War on the United States! The US had many powerful business men that were allied with the Nazis and the American public was about as racist on average as the German public. The racial theories that Nazism promoted were largely created in America by Madison Grant, and US author Jack London had a cheerful short story about gassing non-Aryans in the 1920s. America may have never declared war on Germany if Germany hadn't declared war first. At least the US would have repeated WW1 and waited until Germany was on its last leg against the Soviets. Actually we sort of did that anyways.
8. Abandoning the atomic program in 1943. If Germany hadn't chased out all the Jewish scientists, they probably could have had the bomb by 1942 and would rule the world today! A German scientist discovered nuclear fission and Germany started out with a HUGE lead in the atomic program, but losing half of their scientists and abandoning any physics discovered by Jews, instead teaching "Deutche Physik" was a disaster.
1. Invading the Soviet Union without finishing off Britain
2. Stopped bombing runways during the Battle Britain and started trying to bomb houses despite lacking a proper heavy bomber like the American B29
3. Committing genocide on Soviet Slavs and Poles for bullshit racial ideology when MANY people hated Stalin and would have joined Germany instead of forming partisans that fought to the death.
4. Executing over 80% of Soviet POWS, which convinced the Soviets to stop surrendering after 1941. Germany beat Russia in WW1 because millions of Russian soldiers threw down their arms and surrendered. When your opponent outnumbers you two to one, it is in your best interest for them to surrender and NOT fight to the death. This is basic fucking logic.
5. Wasting money on "rail guns", laughable tank projects like the Mouse, and other "Wunderweapons" rather than focus on cranking out basic designs in large numbers. The Panther 4 was a great tank, the King Tiger was a logistical nightmare.
6. Overstretching supply lines and constantly showing zero regard for logistics. Winter clothes? fuck em. We don't need that shit, we have balls!
7. Declaring War on the United States! The US had many powerful business men that were allied with the Nazis and the American public was about as racist on average as the German public. The racial theories that Nazism promoted were largely created in America by Madison Grant, and US author Jack London had a cheerful short story about gassing non-Aryans in the 1920s. America may have never declared war on Germany if Germany hadn't declared war first. At least the US would have repeated WW1 and waited until Germany was on its last leg against the Soviets. Actually we sort of did that anyways.
8. Abandoning the atomic program in 1943. If Germany hadn't chased out all the Jewish scientists, they probably could have had the bomb by 1942 and would rule the world today! A German scientist discovered nuclear fission and Germany started out with a HUGE lead in the atomic program, but losing half of their scientists and abandoning any physics discovered by Jews, instead teaching "Deutche Physik" was a disaster.
Smartest post here.
If we pull the lens back and focus on the total scope of their policies and impact on society, Stalin by far ...
Hitler's reign of terror lasted roughly 20 years.
Stalin's regime and policies still carry on today in places like North Korea, China, and by extension the current disposition of Russia's political cant.
Hitler's reign of terror lasted roughly 20 years.
Stalin's regime and policies still carry on today in places like North Korea, China, and by extension the current disposition of Russia's political cant.
I think Hitlers ideology was worse and more sinister than Stalin but Stalin was just as evil in his practice of violence.
I can't say who was worse but one thing that always sticks out about Stalin to me is he fucked up his own people, his own soldiers.
I can't say who was worse but one thing that always sticks out about Stalin to me is he fucked up his own people, his own soldiers.
Funny thing is Nazi racism was entirely political. All of it, not just anti-Slavic part.
Also Nazi racism was pseudoscience. No wonder it was confusing or contradictory at times. On one hand it was of course based on some real facts but lot of it was simply made up. Often by people with dubious motives.
this is like asking which shit smells worse, the one with the corn or the one with the peanuts.
...and I'm out!
Did they directly order the killings and enslavement, yes...via proxy to sail and claim land for Spain!
356 years plus the Triangular Slave Trade?...all the Africans and Natives in the New World who were slaughtered and y'all bitchin' about crackas killing crackas?!
Leopold of Belgium is a distant second place to these mutha fuckas!
King Leopold.
dis lil' nigga..
hell nah, all these damned guns white folks keep!?
that is THE ONLY reason there hasn't been a land invasion yet!
You didn't pay attention in history class did you? Hitler was a nobody in 1924.
This thread is crazy!
Very interesting thread
Did they directly order the killings and enslavement, yes...via proxy to sail and claim land for Spain!
356 years plus the Triangular Slave Trade?...all the Africans and Natives in the New World who were slaughtered and y'all bitchin' about crackas killing crackas?!
Leopold of Belgium is a distant second place to these mutha fuckas!
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