The best baseball player of all time. PERIOD.
Well said!!!
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has it
- Thread starter Nzinga
- Start date
Well said!!!
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Tripster,
The only reason why McGuire is not in the Hall of Fame,
no, scratch that, has not been honoured with a personal
statue, right there in the harbour of New York, next to
and standing taller than the statue of Liberty, is that they
would have to acknowledge that whatever it is he
achieved to have that honour was shortly thereafter
exceeded by a black man called Barry Bonds. The reason
McGuire is not in the Hall of Fame is because they do not
want BB in the Hall of Fame. I remember when I used to
work in the telecom corridor, and we would go to Hooters
after work, and these cacs would be all worked up, and
saying that no one should pitch to BB, even if it meant
walking him when the bases were loaded, and it caused
that team to lose. I do believe there was a team that
walked in such a run, but my memory about its identity
is failing me right now.
Tripster,
The only reason why McGuire is not in the Hall of Fame,
no, scratch that, has not been honoured with a personal
statue, right there in the harbour of New York, next to
and standing taller than the statue of Liberty, is that they
would have to acknowledge that whatever it is he
achieved to have that honour was shortly thereafter
exceeded by a black man called Barry Bonds. The reason
McGuire is not in the Hall of Fame is because they do not
want BB in the Hall of Fame. I remember when I used to
work in the telecom corridor, and we would go to Hooters
after work, and these cacs would be all worked up, and
saying that no one should pitch to BB, even if it meant
walking him when the bases were loaded, and it caused
that team to lose. I do believe there was a team that
walked in such a run, but my memory about its identity
is failing me right now.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
That team walked him with the bases loaded and it was actually a good strategy. It wasn't losing them the game, as they were already up by 2 or 1, I can't remember exactly. But it was UNWISE to pitch to Bonds with more than 1 runner on base. Fuck what those racist CACs were saying...they don't know the game either.
We just have to be careful when we talk Bonds and racism. I think that sort of talk disrespects what players like Jackie Robinson, or even Hank Aaron when he was about to break Babe's HR record went through in their day. They were disrespected on a level no black player today can even compare with.
Bonds was not a likable dude, period. His teammates didn't care for him (black AND white), and he was usually only popular in the city he played for. He was spoiled rotten, egotistical and an asshole on top of that...and that shit is well-documented. But he's humbled himself in the past few years after baseball.
I'm not saying that there weren't white fans that didn't want him to succeed. Or who wanted McGwire to get into the Hall and not Bonds. Although you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of St. Louis or perhaps Oakland who would vote him in.
McGwire was MAYBE a first round HOFer...Maybe. But Bonds was first round material back in 1998. That's why I was mad at him. He allowed his ego to fuck up his entire legacy. Now I can't have a conversation with a CAC about why he was better than Babe without that HGH shit coming up. Fuck. That's what pisses me off. Hank Aaron (my other hero) didn't need it. Mays didn't need it. Frank Robinson didn't need it. Griffey didn't need it. Fuck you using the shit for...stay out of that shit.
His ego wouldn't allow him to just be great like he was. He was a jealous player for real. Still my fave though. No one did it better.
I was calling out Clemmons back in 2004-5 when he would conveniently start the season "late" (to let his shit cycle off) and mow down opposing pitchers. He would do that 3 or 4 years in a row. Contemplate retirement, then start pitching in the middle of the season. Knew his ass was on that PED shit. And now he's fucked too.
Yes there is racism in baseball, but cry me a river if you're making $20 million a year. Cry me a river when you take PEDs and get caught. Too many brotha been grinding in this game before you for people to play that card when they fuck up.
That team walked him with the bases loaded and it was actually a good strategy. It wasn't losing them the game, as they were already up by 2 or 1, I can't remember exactly. But it was UNWISE to pitch to Bonds with more than 1 runner on base. Fuck what those racist CACs were saying...they don't know the game either.
We just have to be careful when we talk Bonds and racism. I think that sort of talk disrespects what players like Jackie Robinson, or even Hank Aaron when he was about to break Babe's HR record went through in their day. They were disrespected on a level no black player today can even compare with.
Bonds was not a likable dude, period. His teammates didn't care for him (black AND white), and he was usually only popular in the city he played for. He was spoiled rotten, egotistical and an asshole on top of that...and that shit is well-documented. But he's humbled himself in the past few years after baseball.
I'm not saying that there weren't white fans that didn't want him to succeed. Or who wanted McGwire to get into the Hall and not Bonds. Although you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of St. Louis or perhaps Oakland who would vote him in.
McGwire was MAYBE a first round HOFer...Maybe. But Bonds was first round material back in 1998. That's why I was mad at him. He allowed his ego to fuck up his entire legacy. Now I can't have a conversation with a CAC about why he was better than Babe without that HGH shit coming up. Fuck. That's what pisses me off. Hank Aaron (my other hero) didn't need it. Mays didn't need it. Frank Robinson didn't need it. Griffey didn't need it. Fuck you using the shit for...stay out of that shit.
His ego wouldn't allow him to just be great like he was. He was a jealous player for real. Still my fave though. No one did it better.
I was calling out Clemmons back in 2004-5 when he would conveniently start the season "late" (to let his shit cycle off) and mow down opposing pitchers. He would do that 3 or 4 years in a row. Contemplate retirement, then start pitching in the middle of the season. Knew his ass was on that PED shit. And now he's fucked too.
Yes there is racism in baseball, but cry me a river if you're making $20 million a year. Cry me a river when you take PEDs and get caught. Too many brotha been grinding in this game before you for people to play that card when they fuck up.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
there was no test for hGH back then. the funny thing is that it eventually became banned in baseball, but the food industry's use of it increased. some scientists have said that 20 years from now hGH and anti-aging treatments could become the norm for many and they would look back at what happened in baseball and laugh at it like it was not a big deal.
THIS IS A 14 PAGE MUST READ IF you want to take a peak at how steriods and performance enhancing drugs in the modern era of baseball rose to new heights:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroidsExc&num=18
espn should have made this into a doc.
there was no test for hGH back then. the funny thing is that it eventually became banned in baseball, but the food industry's use of it increased. some scientists have said that 20 years from now hGH and anti-aging treatments could become the norm for many and they would look back at what happened in baseball and laugh at it like it was not a big deal.
THIS IS A 14 PAGE MUST READ IF you want to take a peak at how steriods and performance enhancing drugs in the modern era of baseball rose to new heights:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroidsExc&num=18
espn should have made this into a doc.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
No one's ever compared and said what Bonds went thru is the same as Robinson, but baseball a sport that banned potential players due to "race" for 70 years of its existence should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to race. NEVER. And just because white people are not protected by law anymore to openly display their racism towards black baseball players DOES NOT mean the sentiment is not still there.
As long as a Ty Cobb is celebrated in the sport and in the Hall Of Fame, any black person shitting on Bonds to protect the "integrity" of the sport is a coon and any CAC that does it is just being a CAC. You cant take a moral high ground on Bonds then act like we supposed to ignore that Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc were white supremacists and racists who ACTIVELY participated in racism and benefited from it. Their numbers and "stats" are fake.
After seeing the resistance that Aaron faced surpassing Babe I dont see how a sane black person could see it as implausible that Bonds would face the same sentiment surpassing Babe. Bonds and his family received death threats, security at the ballparks he traveled to had to be tightened, the press made it their mission to demonize him. Not much different than what Aaron went thru. Only difference is Aaron is celebrated for turning the other cheek and holding his head down to white supremacy, while Bonds is seen as defiant towards it. Aaron had no problem getting propped up and patronized by a baseball media that ignored him for 30 years when it had to compare him to Babe. But as soon as the argument shifted to Aaron-Bonds, Aaron became "LOVED" and "likeable" and a "hero" to the same CACs who wouldnt concede him as better than the great white hype.
No one's ever compared and said what Bonds went thru is the same as Robinson, but baseball a sport that banned potential players due to "race" for 70 years of its existence should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to race. NEVER. And just because white people are not protected by law anymore to openly display their racism towards black baseball players DOES NOT mean the sentiment is not still there.
As long as a Ty Cobb is celebrated in the sport and in the Hall Of Fame, any black person shitting on Bonds to protect the "integrity" of the sport is a coon and any CAC that does it is just being a CAC. You cant take a moral high ground on Bonds then act like we supposed to ignore that Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc were white supremacists and racists who ACTIVELY participated in racism and benefited from it. Their numbers and "stats" are fake.
After seeing the resistance that Aaron faced surpassing Babe I dont see how a sane black person could see it as implausible that Bonds would face the same sentiment surpassing Babe.
Bonds and his family received death threats, security at the ballparks he traveled to had to be tightened, the press made it their mission to demonize him. Not much different than what Aaron went thru. Only difference is Aaron is celebrated for turning the other cheek and holding his head down to white supremacy, while Bonds is seen as defiant towards it. Aaron had no problem getting propped up and patronized by a baseball media that ignored him for 30 years when it had to compare him to Babe. But as soon as the argument shifted to Aaron-Bonds, Aaron became "LOVED" and "likeable" and a "hero" to the same CACs who wouldnt concede him as better than the great white hype.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
- again bruh, the same can be said for mcgwire and clemens, they've never tested positive either
mcgwire is a redhead, does baseball hate redheads?
clemens is from ohio, does baseball hate trashy rednecks!?
YOU CATS ARE NOT BASEBALL FANS. yall could give a fuck less about any of this shit unless it says "BONDS".
- which makes this shit even crazier.
A-ROID is on record as saying he wanted 800 homeruns, he was obsessed with getting them. I'd say the same can be said for BONDS or something similar.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060314
Pearlman, who was not at the alleged dinner as far as we know, quoted Barry's message to Griffey and Co. verbatim:
"You know what? I had a helluva season last year, and nobody gave a crap. Nobody. As much as I've complained about McGwire and Canseco and all of the bull with steroids, I'm tired of fighting it. I turn 35 this year. I've got three or four good seasons left, and I wanna get paid. I'm just gonna start using some hard-core stuff, and hopefully it won't hurt my body. Then I'll get out of the game and be done with it."
You must be one of those "NON-BASEBALL fans speaking on this issue..." Show me where Bonds ever tested positive for juicing.It never happened Bonds never tested positive, there was only speculation.
You cannot ignore that in the beginning MLB embraced the players that were juicing because they put fans back in the stands and created new interest in the game. Attendance numbers were way down after that last strike. So MLB turned its back on the juicing that was going on.
- again bruh, the same can be said for mcgwire and clemens, they've never tested positive either
mcgwire is a redhead, does baseball hate redheads?
clemens is from ohio, does baseball hate trashy rednecks!?
YOU CATS ARE NOT BASEBALL FANS. yall could give a fuck less about any of this shit unless it says "BONDS".
- which makes this shit even crazier.
A-ROID is on record as saying he wanted 800 homeruns, he was obsessed with getting them. I'd say the same can be said for BONDS or something similar.
Post proof
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060314
Pearlman, who was not at the alleged dinner as far as we know, quoted Barry's message to Griffey and Co. verbatim:
"You know what? I had a helluva season last year, and nobody gave a crap. Nobody. As much as I've complained about McGwire and Canseco and all of the bull with steroids, I'm tired of fighting it. I turn 35 this year. I've got three or four good seasons left, and I wanna get paid. I'm just gonna start using some hard-core stuff, and hopefully it won't hurt my body. Then I'll get out of the game and be done with it."
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Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
99% of the so-called arrogance you have heard about BB is not true. It was
created by cacs in Pittsburgh, particularly by beat writers such as Bob Smizik.
I was there so I remember it all well. When BB and BB (Bonilla and Bonds)
had revived the fortunes of the Pirates, the racist GM did everything he could
do to put them under Andy Van Slyke. Bonds was bitter, because as a man
who had grown up in the family of a well-to-do major league superstar, he
had not had to play second fiddle to anyone, especially an inferior player like
Andy Van Slyke. In the year before Bonilla was due for free-agency, BB and
BB took their cases to salary arbitration and lost. The Pirates then started to
trying to convince Bonilla to accept $16 million for 5 years. Bonilla countered
with $20 million for 5. The Pirates said they could not afford it because they
were a small market team. Bonds went on TV, and even though he still had
another year on his contract, he stated that if offered $16 million for 5 years
he would sign the contract on the spot. Bonilla announced that he would
accept the contract. The next day, the Pirates announced that they had
extended Andy Van Slyke's contract by 13 million over 3 years, even though
Van Slyke's contract was not up for renewal. The GM of the Pirates then
announced that he did that because "Van Slyke puts people in the seats".
Bobby Bonilla reverted to his $20 million demand, and was pilloried in the
Pittsburgh media as demanding Canseco money when he did not have
Canseco numbers. What no one mentioned was why Van Slyke was getting
better money than Bonilla when he did not have Bonilla numbers. At the
All Star game that year in Pittsburgh, the Post Gazette devoted an entire
page vilifying Bonilla, but especially Bonds, in a juvenile attempt to drive
down their appeal to other teams. The national media, which usually
regurgitates the opinion of the local media, seized on reports like this
and branded Bonds, especially, a problem. The next year Bonilla was gone
to the Mets for $27mil/ 5 years; the year after that, Bonds was gone to the
Giants for $42 million. The Pirates have never recovered. The general
manager who made those bonehead decisions was soon gone to Florida
That team walked him with the bases loaded and it was actually a good strategy. It wasn't losing them the game, as they were already up by 2 or 1, I can't remember exactly. But it was UNWISE to pitch to Bonds with more than 1 runner on base. Fuck what those racist CACs were saying...they don't know the game either.
We just have to be careful when we talk Bonds and racism. I think that sort of talk disrespects what players like Jackie Robinson, or even Hank Aaron when he was about to break Babe's HR record went through in their day. They were disrespected on a level no black player today can even compare with.
Bonds was not a likable dude, period. His teammates didn't care for him (black AND white), and he was usually only popular in the city he played for. He was spoiled rotten, egotistical and an asshole on top of that...and that shit is well-documented. But he's humbled himself in the past few years after baseball.
I'm not saying that there weren't white fans that didn't want him to succeed. Or who wanted McGwire to get into the Hall and not Bonds. Although you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of St. Louis or perhaps Oakland who would vote him in.
McGwire was MAYBE a first round HOFer...Maybe. But Bonds was first round material back in 1998. That's why I was mad at him. He allowed his ego to fuck up his entire legacy. Now I can't have a conversation with a CAC about why he was better than Babe without that HGH shit coming up. Fuck. That's what pisses me off. Hank Aaron (my other hero) didn't need it. Mays didn't need it. Frank Robinson didn't need it. Griffey didn't need it. Fuck you using the shit for...stay out of that shit.
His ego wouldn't allow him to just be great like he was. He was a jealous player for real. Still my fave though. No one did it better.
I was calling out Clemmons back in 2004-5 when he would conveniently start the season "late" (to let his shit cycle off) and mow down opposing pitchers. He would do that 3 or 4 years in a row. Contemplate retirement, then start pitching in the middle of the season. Knew his ass was on that PED shit. And now he's fucked too.
Yes there is racism in baseball, but cry me a river if you're making $20 million a year. Cry me a river when you take PEDs and get caught. Too many brotha been grinding in this game before you for people to play that card when they fuck up.
99% of the so-called arrogance you have heard about BB is not true. It was
created by cacs in Pittsburgh, particularly by beat writers such as Bob Smizik.
I was there so I remember it all well. When BB and BB (Bonilla and Bonds)
had revived the fortunes of the Pirates, the racist GM did everything he could
do to put them under Andy Van Slyke. Bonds was bitter, because as a man
who had grown up in the family of a well-to-do major league superstar, he
had not had to play second fiddle to anyone, especially an inferior player like
Andy Van Slyke. In the year before Bonilla was due for free-agency, BB and
BB took their cases to salary arbitration and lost. The Pirates then started to
trying to convince Bonilla to accept $16 million for 5 years. Bonilla countered
with $20 million for 5. The Pirates said they could not afford it because they
were a small market team. Bonds went on TV, and even though he still had
another year on his contract, he stated that if offered $16 million for 5 years
he would sign the contract on the spot. Bonilla announced that he would
accept the contract. The next day, the Pirates announced that they had
extended Andy Van Slyke's contract by 13 million over 3 years, even though
Van Slyke's contract was not up for renewal. The GM of the Pirates then
announced that he did that because "Van Slyke puts people in the seats".
Bobby Bonilla reverted to his $20 million demand, and was pilloried in the
Pittsburgh media as demanding Canseco money when he did not have
Canseco numbers. What no one mentioned was why Van Slyke was getting
better money than Bonilla when he did not have Bonilla numbers. At the
All Star game that year in Pittsburgh, the Post Gazette devoted an entire
page vilifying Bonilla, but especially Bonds, in a juvenile attempt to drive
down their appeal to other teams. The national media, which usually
regurgitates the opinion of the local media, seized on reports like this
and branded Bonds, especially, a problem. The next year Bonilla was gone
to the Mets for $27mil/ 5 years; the year after that, Bonds was gone to the
Giants for $42 million. The Pirates have never recovered. The general
manager who made those bonehead decisions was soon gone to Florida
Last edited:
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Eloquently spoken, but your logic is flawed. If we invite moral shortcomings into the picture, we tread a slippery slope. (See ya boy Wilt Chamberlain)
If we kept racist CACs out of the Hall for being racist CACs, there would hardly be any CACs in the Hall. And you know there wouldn't be a Hall then. Our "feelings" about racist CACs may make us "want" to do that, but it would hardly be fair to anyone. Would we stop at racists? What about players that physically abused women? Drunkards? Homophobes? Pro-choicers? Drug addicts? What moral standard do we say is the "line" without incorporating ideals that no one would come to a consensus on? Who gets to make that choice?
Racism was wide-open and largely acceptable (and even expected) in Robinson's day. Still overt in Aaron's day with all the hate mail, racist taunts, and other fuckery. But these brothas today BASK in the celebration and high-contracts on roads that were paved by Robinson, Mays and Aaron. They weren't mult-millionaires that could say "fuck you CAC, I'm going to my mansion...while you go to your 2-bedroom apt." If Robinson did that shit, there would be a cross burning on his yard the next morning. Aaron too. They were lucky to make 45-50k a year with hardly ANY endorsements, ever. And had to STILL work and own businesses AFTER they played just to make a living.
Racism is NOT the reason Bonds isn't in the Hall. For anyone to believe that or speak that, disrespects the those that came before Bonds who didn't cheat.
We have some thing about us....we don't want to call out things that another black person has done wrong, as we feel doing so is somehow going against our own blackness. White people do the same shit...only when a subject is compared with a black person. Which is why they still bring OJ up 20 years later. Its a mental sickness. And when we do it, we disrespect hard-working, straight-walking, brothers doing the RIGHT thing...as we find some need to protect muthafuckas who do stupid shit. I don't. (see my Marion Barry example) We weaken true calls of racism when we do that shit.
Were there racists in basketball? Yep. So how do we measure it? If you made an actual racist "statement"? Do you get a pass if you are a racist in your mind, but never said anything that people could write about you? Do you think Larry Bird never said "ni**er" in his entire life...even at home around family back in French Lick? Really? And if he did, should he not be in the basketball Hall of Fame? Should he give back his membership and come clean?
If racism is the litmus test, then you might as well not have a hall of fame for ANY sport. Do we start counting stats when Robinson joined the league? Or when there were enough brothas to make the stats fair with fair competition? Who makes that call? Who decides that? The number of Black players in MLB is lower now than since the 70s, do the stats count less now?
Racist CACs aside, CACs don't shit on Griffey like they shit on Bonds. And there is a reason for that, and it ain't because of race. Griffey was likable, with a father who played in the league, but didn't come across like an asshole. Didn't get caught up in PEDs, and you can't find a player who disliked playing with Griffey. Bonds on the other hand...son of a player...total asshole, arrogant to a fault, and you'd be hard pressed to find a player that said they LOVED playing with him. Are they shitting on him? Would you call that doing CAC work?
There is a reason why you never found a lot of brothas in MLB standing up for Bonds when he was going through that shit. Not even now. Name ONE brother who is screaming for Bonds to be in the HOF? Why do you think that is? Surely THEY aren't racist against another black man. Its because he was an asshole to other black players, and when he got hemmed up, they remembered that shit. Black players are not crying about Bonds or even Sosa. Because they know what it is.
Like it or not, it wasn't illegal to be a racist back in the 20s, ain't illegal now, just more "scrutinized" so people have to be more "careful" about what they say and do. You think these NBA players are excited about playing with a homosexual (Collins)??? They just can't say shit, or they'll get disowned by the fan base. You think they aren't calling him a faggot in their minds, or to each other (when its safe enough)? If they get caught, should they never make the HOF?
That's what is wrong with your logic. It invites too much subjectivity into the discussion about HOF. Nothing can change what happened in the 20s, 30s and 40s. If you were a white dude in 1927, should you have just quit playing baseball because there weren't any black players? Even if you weren't necessarily racist? A black person couldn't even walk in certain parts of the town back then, much less play professional baseball. It was just reality back then...was fucked up, but we had bigger problems than the color-barrier in baseball or any sport. Couldn't fucking vote in the South. Lynching was rampant. Bigger shit was going on.
I appreciate the discussion, and I do understand your POV. But I just feel that there is no way to do what you are suggesting without changing history itself or with an impartial judge.
No one's ever compared and said what Bonds went thru is the same as Robinson, but baseball a sport that banned potential players due to "race" for 70 years of its existence should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to race. NEVER. And just white people are not protected by law anymore to openly display their racism towards black baseball players DOES NOT mean the sentiment is not still there.
As long as a Ty Cobb is celebrated in the sport and in the Hall Of Fame, any black person shitting on Bonds to protect the "integrity" of the sport is a coon and any CAC that does it is just being a CAC. You cant take a moral high ground on Bonds then act like we supposed to ignore that Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc were white supremacists and racists who ACTIVELY participated in racism and benefited from it. Their numbers and "stats" are fake.
After seeing the resistance that Aaron faced surpassing Babe I dont see how a sane black person could see it as implausible that Bonds would face the same sentiment surpassing Babe.
Eloquently spoken, but your logic is flawed. If we invite moral shortcomings into the picture, we tread a slippery slope. (See ya boy Wilt Chamberlain)
If we kept racist CACs out of the Hall for being racist CACs, there would hardly be any CACs in the Hall. And you know there wouldn't be a Hall then. Our "feelings" about racist CACs may make us "want" to do that, but it would hardly be fair to anyone. Would we stop at racists? What about players that physically abused women? Drunkards? Homophobes? Pro-choicers? Drug addicts? What moral standard do we say is the "line" without incorporating ideals that no one would come to a consensus on? Who gets to make that choice?
Racism was wide-open and largely acceptable (and even expected) in Robinson's day. Still overt in Aaron's day with all the hate mail, racist taunts, and other fuckery. But these brothas today BASK in the celebration and high-contracts on roads that were paved by Robinson, Mays and Aaron. They weren't mult-millionaires that could say "fuck you CAC, I'm going to my mansion...while you go to your 2-bedroom apt." If Robinson did that shit, there would be a cross burning on his yard the next morning. Aaron too. They were lucky to make 45-50k a year with hardly ANY endorsements, ever. And had to STILL work and own businesses AFTER they played just to make a living.
Racism is NOT the reason Bonds isn't in the Hall. For anyone to believe that or speak that, disrespects the those that came before Bonds who didn't cheat.
We have some thing about us....we don't want to call out things that another black person has done wrong, as we feel doing so is somehow going against our own blackness. White people do the same shit...only when a subject is compared with a black person. Which is why they still bring OJ up 20 years later. Its a mental sickness. And when we do it, we disrespect hard-working, straight-walking, brothers doing the RIGHT thing...as we find some need to protect muthafuckas who do stupid shit. I don't. (see my Marion Barry example) We weaken true calls of racism when we do that shit.
Were there racists in basketball? Yep. So how do we measure it? If you made an actual racist "statement"? Do you get a pass if you are a racist in your mind, but never said anything that people could write about you? Do you think Larry Bird never said "ni**er" in his entire life...even at home around family back in French Lick? Really? And if he did, should he not be in the basketball Hall of Fame? Should he give back his membership and come clean?
If racism is the litmus test, then you might as well not have a hall of fame for ANY sport. Do we start counting stats when Robinson joined the league? Or when there were enough brothas to make the stats fair with fair competition? Who makes that call? Who decides that? The number of Black players in MLB is lower now than since the 70s, do the stats count less now?
Racist CACs aside, CACs don't shit on Griffey like they shit on Bonds. And there is a reason for that, and it ain't because of race. Griffey was likable, with a father who played in the league, but didn't come across like an asshole. Didn't get caught up in PEDs, and you can't find a player who disliked playing with Griffey. Bonds on the other hand...son of a player...total asshole, arrogant to a fault, and you'd be hard pressed to find a player that said they LOVED playing with him. Are they shitting on him? Would you call that doing CAC work?
There is a reason why you never found a lot of brothas in MLB standing up for Bonds when he was going through that shit. Not even now. Name ONE brother who is screaming for Bonds to be in the HOF? Why do you think that is? Surely THEY aren't racist against another black man. Its because he was an asshole to other black players, and when he got hemmed up, they remembered that shit. Black players are not crying about Bonds or even Sosa. Because they know what it is.
Like it or not, it wasn't illegal to be a racist back in the 20s, ain't illegal now, just more "scrutinized" so people have to be more "careful" about what they say and do. You think these NBA players are excited about playing with a homosexual (Collins)??? They just can't say shit, or they'll get disowned by the fan base. You think they aren't calling him a faggot in their minds, or to each other (when its safe enough)? If they get caught, should they never make the HOF?
That's what is wrong with your logic. It invites too much subjectivity into the discussion about HOF. Nothing can change what happened in the 20s, 30s and 40s. If you were a white dude in 1927, should you have just quit playing baseball because there weren't any black players? Even if you weren't necessarily racist? A black person couldn't even walk in certain parts of the town back then, much less play professional baseball. It was just reality back then...was fucked up, but we had bigger problems than the color-barrier in baseball or any sport. Couldn't fucking vote in the South. Lynching was rampant. Bigger shit was going on.
I appreciate the discussion, and I do understand your POV. But I just feel that there is no way to do what you are suggesting without changing history itself or with an impartial judge.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
see this is why people are cautious about having serious discussions on message boards...
bonds use to have a throne in the locker room bruh, he never or rarely talked to or hung out with his teammates, he use to completely isolate and separate himself from the team, he was like this his entire career.
and treated the press worse than this.
understand that there are baseball fans posting on here man, we know of what we speak.
see this is why people are cautious about having serious discussions on message boards...
bonds use to have a throne in the locker room bruh, he never or rarely talked to or hung out with his teammates, he use to completely isolate and separate himself from the team, he was like this his entire career.
and treated the press worse than this.
understand that there are baseball fans posting on here man, we know of what we speak.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
I agree, Pittsburgh has always been one of the racists cities in America. My ex-wife is from Pittsburgh, I know what I'm speaking of. No argument from me there. So it goes to say, that Van Slyke was always going to be more popular in Pittsburgh than Bonds or Bonilla. Owner can't change that. He just wants butts in the seats. That's how he makes money. Ended up being a bad business decision ultimately, even though Bonilla never panned out in NY, and Bonds turned into the G.O.A.T.
But what an owner does, isn't MLB fault. How racist a fucked up city like Pittsburgh is, isn't MLB's fault. What sportswriters write isn't MLBs fault. When you underperform your contract (Bonilla in NY and Van Slyke in Pitt) that isn't MLB's fault. No one can say logically that a league is "racist" because of the owner, sportswriters, city, etc.
Bonds would be in the HOF with 99% vote if not for PEDs. Ain't a white player other than Rose that could say that in the last 30 years. (and you know what they did to Rose).
Some shit is racism. Some shit ain't. We have to know the difference.
I agree, Pittsburgh has always been one of the racists cities in America. My ex-wife is from Pittsburgh, I know what I'm speaking of. No argument from me there. So it goes to say, that Van Slyke was always going to be more popular in Pittsburgh than Bonds or Bonilla. Owner can't change that. He just wants butts in the seats. That's how he makes money. Ended up being a bad business decision ultimately, even though Bonilla never panned out in NY, and Bonds turned into the G.O.A.T.
But what an owner does, isn't MLB fault. How racist a fucked up city like Pittsburgh is, isn't MLB's fault. What sportswriters write isn't MLBs fault. When you underperform your contract (Bonilla in NY and Van Slyke in Pitt) that isn't MLB's fault. No one can say logically that a league is "racist" because of the owner, sportswriters, city, etc.
Bonds would be in the HOF with 99% vote if not for PEDs. Ain't a white player other than Rose that could say that in the last 30 years. (and you know what they did to Rose).
Some shit is racism. Some shit ain't. We have to know the difference.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
^^^^This. This shit right here.
People on here talking baseball and never had a rookie card or read a baseball almanac in their lives. I was doing that shit when I was 7 years old. I lived this shit. Played this shit. Was the shit in High School. You got to be a true fan to know the sport beyond what you see on ESPN.
see this is why people are cautious about having serious discussions on message boards...
bonds use to have a throne in the locker room bruh, he never or rarely talked to or hung out with his teammates, he use to completely isolate and separate himself from the team, he was like this his entire career.
and treated the press worse than this.
understand that there are baseball fans posting on here man, we know of what we speak.
^^^^This. This shit right here.
People on here talking baseball and never had a rookie card or read a baseball almanac in their lives. I was doing that shit when I was 7 years old. I lived this shit. Played this shit. Was the shit in High School. You got to be a true fan to know the sport beyond what you see on ESPN.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
But we can keep the hordes of baseball players "suspected" of PEDs out? The all time hits leader aint in there, the all time HR leader aint in there, and an all time great pitcher like Clemens aint in there. That's a farce. And I'm sorry, I take Ty Cobb beating black women up and stabbing black men as more serious crimes than Barry Bonds "allegedly" using flaxseed oil.
It wasnt fair to Josh Gibson and Moses Fleetwood Walker that they were excluded from a game they love simply because they are black. It's not about "feelings" its truth, Ruth, Gehrig, and the such numbers are FAKE and cant be taken seriously because they didnt face the best talent of their day. It's not a coincidence that when Jackie Robinson came into the league, the "speed" of the game increased. 8 of the top 10 HR hitters of all time are black or latino, almost all your MVP winners over the last 25 years have been black or latino. Our impact on this game is IMMEASURABLE, and I'm supposed to take an ALL WHITE league seriously as the game's best?
You don't see me propping up the ALL BLACK negro league's as the best ever do you? It'd be like me doing that.
So guys using PED's you have no problem banning them from the hall. But a player like Ty Cobb who's physically assaulted fans in the stands and stabbed black people gets a pass? Does Bonds "alleged" PED use bother you more than that? Why?
Doesnt make it right. Pedophilia and the molestation of little children was wide open and largely acceptable in the greek and roman times. Does that mean we should be cool with it now? Or ignore that it was a part of the culture? As America's past time, racism and white supremacy go hand and hand with baseball, always have.
None of what you said has anything to do with the fact Bonds faced the same hardships as Aaron. You think because Bonds make millions he's ok that people threatented to kill his daughter for breaking a HR record? There was NOTHING Aaron went thru that Bonds didnt. Death threats? Check! Harrassment from the media? Check! Opposition from opposing fans and players? Check! I dont recall Hank Aaron being federally indicted and waiting years to go to a trial. Hank Aaron doesnt know what its like to have his freedom at stake playing a game he loves.
Ty Cobb cheated. Babe Ruth cheated. Hank Aaron cheated. Baseball players cheat, that is what they do. Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes on his cleats. Babe Ruth put up historic numbers against WHITES ONLY and never faced or played with anyone that wasnt white. Hank Aaron used "greenies" a phetamine that is illegal along with most of the players in the 60's and 70's. Racism has everything to do with why Bonds isnt in the hall and why there was so much resistance to him breaking the "great white hope's" record. Race has everything to do with why people prop up Babe Ruth, his nickname is the "Great White Hope". He's only liked because he is white. PERIOD.
No, we have black fans of baseball who are too cowardly to admit the sport was created for and nurtured in white supremacy. Their guilt does not allow them to admit they support a sport that rewards people simply for being white. Your post above basically downplays white supremacy and racism because it was "widespread" and "accepted" at the time. Rather than challenge the immorality of it, you concede to it because its too overwhelming. It's easier to just go with the flow. Tariq Elite went in depth about this behavior on his most recent podcast.
Bogus. So you're willing to throw one of the "bad ones" under the bus to keep the old-no-longer-active-so-they're-not-a-threat/just-happy-to-be-liked-by-whites "good ones" propped up? You think that makes white people want to elevate them over their heroes Babe & Ty Cobb? They have no problem saying they like Aaron over a Bonds, but ask them do they like Aaron more than Babe, and they get quiet.
What's interesting is, whites NEVER feel pressed to do this to their own. They will accept Ryan Braun back with open arms the same way they accepted Andy Pettite. Same way they accepted that crackhead who walked out on his family Josh Hamilton. You rarely if ever see CACs tear down one of their ACTIVE athletes by propping up an old player. Funny thing is, CACs can always convince us to do it. The way you're tearing Bonds down to make Aaron and them cats seem saintly.
Nah, if you participated in a sport that openly discriminated against people based on race you support racism and white supremacy. You don't think these CACs didnt notice for 40-50 years every single teammate of theirs and opponent was white? You think they didnt notice that? And in that time you really believe NO ONE spoke out against it or suggested to re-integrate the game? How can we take these cats stats seriously when they werent even facing some of the best comp of their day? Jackie Robinson was an "average" negro league player NOWHERE NEAR the best, and he came in MLB and DOMINATED right off the bat. If you're gonna mention the Ruths, Cobbs, Honus Wagners, always preface it by saying "Segregation Era Player...."
I don't take any stats seriously prior to 1947 when Jackie came in the league. Prior to that the league was watered down and not everyone could participate. EVERYONE can participate today, so even though the numbers are down, they are still higher than at any point in the late 1800s to the late 1940's. And the best players today are LATINS!
Did Griffey come close to surpassing the "great white hope"?
Are we talking about the same Griffey Jr? Griffey has a long history of being "surly" with the media and teammates during his career. He had a reputation of being a locker room cancer in Cincy. Dude was looked at as a spoiled prima donna until the Bonds stuff came up. Then he suddenly became one of the "good ones". But its only because he became an injury prone player who couldnt break the record so he avoided PED suspicion (although constant injuries is a sign of PED use). Trust if Griffey came anywhere close to 700, the press wouldve went right back to what they were saying in the late 90's early 2000's about him.
And yet you got Ty Cobb on your Mt. Rushmore of baseball players. Doesnt seem to hold back you elevating him as one of the best.
Torii Hunter.
Not to mention latin players like Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, & David Ortiz.
Then you got HOF CAC pitchers like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, & John Smoltz calling him the best they've ever faced.
Jeff Bagwell has spoken highly of Bonds. I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the others.
Let me guess, they're all full of shit?
What black players was Bonds an "asshole" to? Shouldnt be hard to name names. I've already named a few who came to his defense while he was playing. Not to mention Willie Mays who's arguably the greatest player his self has always credited Bonds as the best. Is Willie Mays not black? Was Bonds an "asshole" to him to?
Like it or not, PEDs werent illegal when Bonds was accused of using them. The penalties and attention paid to them DID NOT come until after Bonds, and he never failed a single MLB drug test or been found guilty of using. Not a single teammate of Bonds has come out and said they saw him using or helped him use. That isnt odd to you? All his records are still standing on mlb.com's website by the way.
You could've spoken out against it. You could've lobbied for the inclusion of "negro league" players, which ended up happening. All I know is if you played baseball prior to 1947, your stats and competition are a joke and can't be taken seriously. Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, those guys WERE NOT real athletes. Imagine LeBron saying I will only play against black players or Cam Newton saying he will only play against black QBs. No one would take them seriously as "competitors".
You really are an apologist for Segregated Era baseball. If it aint so bad, why dont we go back to it. Let's kick all the latins and blacks out of the game today.
Cabrera GONE!
Ortiz GONE!
Cano GONE!
Beltran GONE!
Felix Hernandez GONE!
Fielder GONE!
Will the product be the same? Better? And if we did that, I guarantee you the HR leader will be white, the hits leader will be white, the batting champion will be white, the MVP will be white. Thats basically what you have with "Segregation Era" heroes Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Wagner, Cobb. Their stats and accolades are inflated because they didnt face the absolute best, only the best whites. THEY CHEATED by keeping the absolute best out. Real athletes cherish and want REAL competition, not barriers that allow them to put up fabricated stats. I know it doesnt bother whites like that, but if I were one of them I would HATE feeling like the only reason I was considered good or one of the best was because I was white and not my talent or ability. Same way Jason Collins is only in the NBA because he's gay and not because of his talent.
But we can keep the hordes of baseball players "suspected" of PEDs out? The all time hits leader aint in there, the all time HR leader aint in there, and an all time great pitcher like Clemens aint in there. That's a farce. And I'm sorry, I take Ty Cobb beating black women up and stabbing black men as more serious crimes than Barry Bonds "allegedly" using flaxseed oil.
It wasnt fair to Josh Gibson and Moses Fleetwood Walker that they were excluded from a game they love simply because they are black. It's not about "feelings" its truth, Ruth, Gehrig, and the such numbers are FAKE and cant be taken seriously because they didnt face the best talent of their day. It's not a coincidence that when Jackie Robinson came into the league, the "speed" of the game increased. 8 of the top 10 HR hitters of all time are black or latino, almost all your MVP winners over the last 25 years have been black or latino. Our impact on this game is IMMEASURABLE, and I'm supposed to take an ALL WHITE league seriously as the game's best?
You don't see me propping up the ALL BLACK negro league's as the best ever do you? It'd be like me doing that. Would we stop at racists? What about players that physically abused women? Drunkards? Homophobes? Pro-choicers? Drug addicts? What moral standard do we say is the "line" without incorporating ideals that no one would come to a consensus on? Who gets to make that choice?
So guys using PED's you have no problem banning them from the hall. But a player like Ty Cobb who's physically assaulted fans in the stands and stabbed black people gets a pass? Does Bonds "alleged" PED use bother you more than that? Why?
Doesnt make it right. Pedophilia and the molestation of little children was wide open and largely acceptable in the greek and roman times. Does that mean we should be cool with it now? Or ignore that it was a part of the culture? As America's past time, racism and white supremacy go hand and hand with baseball, always have.
None of what you said has anything to do with the fact Bonds faced the same hardships as Aaron. You think because Bonds make millions he's ok that people threatented to kill his daughter for breaking a HR record? There was NOTHING Aaron went thru that Bonds didnt. Death threats? Check! Harrassment from the media? Check! Opposition from opposing fans and players? Check! I dont recall Hank Aaron being federally indicted and waiting years to go to a trial. Hank Aaron doesnt know what its like to have his freedom at stake playing a game he loves.
Ty Cobb cheated. Babe Ruth cheated. Hank Aaron cheated. Baseball players cheat, that is what they do. Ty Cobb sharpened his spikes on his cleats. Babe Ruth put up historic numbers against WHITES ONLY and never faced or played with anyone that wasnt white. Hank Aaron used "greenies" a phetamine that is illegal along with most of the players in the 60's and 70's. Racism has everything to do with why Bonds isnt in the hall and why there was so much resistance to him breaking the "great white hope's" record. Race has everything to do with why people prop up Babe Ruth, his nickname is the "Great White Hope". He's only liked because he is white. PERIOD.
No, we have black fans of baseball who are too cowardly to admit the sport was created for and nurtured in white supremacy. Their guilt does not allow them to admit they support a sport that rewards people simply for being white. Your post above basically downplays white supremacy and racism because it was "widespread" and "accepted" at the time. Rather than challenge the immorality of it, you concede to it because its too overwhelming. It's easier to just go with the flow. Tariq Elite went in depth about this behavior on his most recent podcast.
Bogus. So you're willing to throw one of the "bad ones" under the bus to keep the old-no-longer-active-so-they're-not-a-threat/just-happy-to-be-liked-by-whites "good ones" propped up?
You think that makes white people want to elevate them over their heroes Babe & Ty Cobb? They have no problem saying they like Aaron over a Bonds, but ask them do they like Aaron more than Babe, and they get quiet. What's interesting is, whites NEVER feel pressed to do this to their own. They will accept Ryan Braun back with open arms the same way they accepted Andy Pettite. Same way they accepted that crackhead who walked out on his family Josh Hamilton. You rarely if ever see CACs tear down one of their ACTIVE athletes by propping up an old player. Funny thing is, CACs can always convince us to do it. The way you're tearing Bonds down to make Aaron and them cats seem saintly.
Nah, if you participated in a sport that openly discriminated against people based on race you support racism and white supremacy. You don't think these CACs didnt notice for 40-50 years every single teammate of theirs and opponent was white? You think they didnt notice that? And in that time you really believe NO ONE spoke out against it or suggested to re-integrate the game? How can we take these cats stats seriously when they werent even facing some of the best comp of their day? Jackie Robinson was an "average" negro league player NOWHERE NEAR the best, and he came in MLB and DOMINATED right off the bat. If you're gonna mention the Ruths, Cobbs, Honus Wagners, always preface it by saying "Segregation Era Player...."
I don't take any stats seriously prior to 1947 when Jackie came in the league. Prior to that the league was watered down and not everyone could participate. EVERYONE can participate today, so even though the numbers are down, they are still higher than at any point in the late 1800s to the late 1940's. And the best players today are LATINS!
Did Griffey come close to surpassing the "great white hope"?
Are we talking about the same Griffey Jr?
Griffey has a long history of being "surly" with the media and teammates during his career. He had a reputation of being a locker room cancer in Cincy. Dude was looked at as a spoiled prima donna until the Bonds stuff came up. Then he suddenly became one of the "good ones". But its only because he became an injury prone player who couldnt break the record so he avoided PED suspicion (although constant injuries is a sign of PED use). Trust if Griffey came anywhere close to 700, the press wouldve went right back to what they were saying in the late 90's early 2000's about him. And yet you got Ty Cobb on your Mt. Rushmore of baseball players. Doesnt seem to hold back you elevating him as one of the best.
Torii Hunter.
Not to mention latin players like Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, & David Ortiz.
Then you got HOF CAC pitchers like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, & John Smoltz calling him the best they've ever faced.
Jeff Bagwell has spoken highly of Bonds. I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the others.
Let me guess, they're all full of shit?
What black players was Bonds an "asshole" to? Shouldnt be hard to name names. I've already named a few who came to his defense while he was playing. Not to mention Willie Mays who's arguably the greatest player his self has always credited Bonds as the best. Is Willie Mays not black? Was Bonds an "asshole" to him to?
Like it or not, PEDs werent illegal when Bonds was accused of using them. The penalties and attention paid to them DID NOT come until after Bonds, and he never failed a single MLB drug test or been found guilty of using. Not a single teammate of Bonds has come out and said they saw him using or helped him use. That isnt odd to you? All his records are still standing on mlb.com's website by the way.
You could've spoken out against it. You could've lobbied for the inclusion of "negro league" players, which ended up happening. All I know is if you played baseball prior to 1947, your stats and competition are a joke and can't be taken seriously. Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, those guys WERE NOT real athletes. Imagine LeBron saying I will only play against black players or Cam Newton saying he will only play against black QBs. No one would take them seriously as "competitors".
You really are an apologist for Segregated Era baseball. If it aint so bad, why dont we go back to it. Let's kick all the latins and blacks out of the game today.
Cabrera GONE!
Ortiz GONE!
Cano GONE!
Beltran GONE!
Felix Hernandez GONE!
Fielder GONE!
Will the product be the same? Better? And if we did that, I guarantee you the HR leader will be white, the hits leader will be white, the batting champion will be white, the MVP will be white. Thats basically what you have with "Segregation Era" heroes Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Wagner, Cobb. Their stats and accolades are inflated because they didnt face the absolute best, only the best whites. THEY CHEATED by keeping the absolute best out. Real athletes cherish and want REAL competition, not barriers that allow them to put up fabricated stats. I know it doesnt bother whites like that, but if I were one of them I would HATE feeling like the only reason I was considered good or one of the best was because I was white and not my talent or ability. Same way Jason Collins is only in the NBA because he's gay and not because of his talent.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Forgot to add this:
Babe Ruth's HR numbers are a farce. Dude was 6'2 215 lbs. Did not work out and spent most of his free time eating, smoking, and chasing prostitutes.
In his first few seasons Babe was a celebrated pitcher for the Red Sox, but in 1920 he was traded to the NY Yankees. In the 2 seasons prior, Babe hit 11 HRs and 29 HRs in as a Red Sox. But when he made it to NY, his HR totals SHOT UP to 54 his first year there, stayed in the 50's most years and peaked at 60. What happened? Why the sudden increase? A little history gives the answer...
From 1920-1923 the Yankees played in Manhattan's Polo Grounds along with the then NY Giants. The right field line in the Polo Grounds was ONLY 258 feet. Let me repeat that again, the right field line was at 258 feet. As a left handed hitter, the Bambino had a SERIOUS ADVANTAGE to hit HRs. When the Yankees moved in their new Yankee Stadium in 1923, they were already enjoying sellouts and media attention from Babe's heroics and he was clearly their biggest draw. So the right field line in that park wasnt drawn up much farther, only 285 feet. Thats basically little league level distance we're talking BGOL, and CACs prop this racist fucker up as some "great athlete".
Ironically, the shortest porch in MLB today is at the stadium Babe first played in, Fenway measures at 308 along the right line. And was more than likely shorter than that when Babe was playing.
CACs in baseball go to great lengths to suppress info about the past that would expose the farce of competition it was in the "Segregation Era".
Forgot to add this:
Babe Ruth's HR numbers are a farce. Dude was 6'2 215 lbs. Did not work out and spent most of his free time eating, smoking, and chasing prostitutes.
In his first few seasons Babe was a celebrated pitcher for the Red Sox, but in 1920 he was traded to the NY Yankees. In the 2 seasons prior, Babe hit 11 HRs and 29 HRs in as a Red Sox. But when he made it to NY, his HR totals SHOT UP to 54 his first year there, stayed in the 50's most years and peaked at 60. What happened? Why the sudden increase? A little history gives the answer...
From 1920-1923 the Yankees played in Manhattan's Polo Grounds along with the then NY Giants. The right field line in the Polo Grounds was ONLY 258 feet. Let me repeat that again, the right field line was at 258 feet.
As a left handed hitter, the Bambino had a SERIOUS ADVANTAGE to hit HRs. When the Yankees moved in their new Yankee Stadium in 1923, they were already enjoying sellouts and media attention from Babe's heroics and he was clearly their biggest draw. So the right field line in that park wasnt drawn up much farther, only 285 feet. Thats basically little league level distance we're talking BGOL, and CACs prop this racist fucker up as some "great athlete". Ironically, the shortest porch in MLB today is at the stadium Babe first played in, Fenway measures at 308 along the right line. And was more than likely shorter than that when Babe was playing.
CACs in baseball go to great lengths to suppress info about the past that would expose the farce of competition it was in the "Segregation Era".
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
King Taharqa get that nigga rex!!!
King Taharqa get that nigga rex!!!
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Segregated sports should all have a * next to the stats from that era.
Segregated sports should all have a * next to the stats from that era.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Not my rule. I say let everybody in, or no one with ties to PEDs. As long as the rule is consistent. By the way, Rose isn't out for PEDs, he's out for betting on baseball. Finally admitted it after lying for 20 years. Again, not my rule...I think he should be in.
It wasnt fair to Josh Gibson and Moses Fleetwood Walker that they were excluded from a game they love simply because they are black. It's not about "feelings" its truth, Ruth, Gehrig, and the such numbers are FAKE and cant be taken seriously because they didnt face the best talent of their day. It's not a coincidence that when Jackie Robinson came into the league, the "speed" of the game increased. 8 of the top 10 HR hitters of all time are black or latino, almost all your MVP winners over the last 25 years have been black or latino. Our impact on this game is IMMEASURABLE, and I'm supposed to take an ALL WHITE league seriously as the game's best?
Do you feel the same way about basketball? When Wilt was dunking over and murking 6'3" white boys most nights? Was the league watered down then? Did he play his first years against enough brothers in the paint? Should those points scored be dismissed from discussion since the league was mostly white? I'd be interested to hear your response to this one especially.
Again, you'll never hear an "apology" for ANY sport that excluded black players. All I've ever said was that Bonds was on the "clear" and that fucked up the HOF, and that has NOTHING to do with racism. And you know it. If Bagwell, McGwire, Clemmons were in the HOF I'd be right with you crying racism. Trust.
Ty Cobb was just as racist as 90% of white people in his day, he just demonstrated it more openly and aggressively than your run of the mill cowardly racist CAC. Morally, Cobb was a fucked up individual. Baseball wise, in the rushmore. Period. I'm intelligent enough to separate the game from the person.
Racism was a natural part of life for white people back then...meaning they saw very little MORAL attachment to their actions against black people. Nobody got fucked up for doing shit to black people in those days. This is no apology, or acceptance. That shit doesn't even make sense. I'm explaining what the fuck the mindset was back then.
The difference between you and I is I don't think the dude that doesn't say "ni**r" but thinks it, is any LESS racist than the CAC that says it openly. The latter is just braver. Both are equally racist. I put those two in the same fucking category.
You pulling in Romans and Greeks in this? Really? This is about Bonds and PEDs. Really? Come on man...you on some other agenda. You don't even sound like a real baseball dude. Lets just get rid of the sport since there wasn't any brother playing in MLB back then. So fuck it...let's just get rid of the whole thing. What actually do you want to have happen? Yes, America's past time, white supremacy, lynchings, cross burnings, a legacy of slavery...yes, but what....because of this Bonds should get into the HOF for PEDs? I fail to get your point. I'm not making a MORAL argument. The shit is illegal. Do you get the difference? It doesn't matter what my OPINION is. Weed is still ILLEGAL in 47-48 states, so you smoke that shit on the street and get caught in those states, tell the cops you think it should be legal...or that this country is a product of racism, and see how far that gets you. Right.
This is probably more disturbing than anything else I've read from you so far. I can't even respond to this one. This isn't even close to reality. We will agree to disagree.
Ok....but I'm not talking about Babe. You made all this way wider than the original discussion. Its getting worse.
Dude, you on some amphetamines or something?You going way into cowardly black fans and nurtured in white supremacy and all that. We talking about PEDs and Bonds. WTF? You losing me, bruh.
Bogus. So you're willing to throw one of the "bad ones" under the bus to keep the old-no-longer-active-so-they're-not-a-threat/just-happy-to-be-liked-by-whites "good ones" propped up?
Ok, you're official on some other stuff. I can't even begin to integrate a all-encompassing discussion on race, and great white hopes, etc. Its in every fucking sport, dude. Should Jerry West not be on the logo? (I notice you avoid my basketball references...that won't stop me though) This isn't even a baseball discussion anymore.
You speak way too broadly about what people feel and think. Plenty of people dislike Braun still. Plenty of people have forgiven him. When you start a sentence with "whites never" or "blacks never" you are already committing a logical fallacy, and you lose your audience. Because it makes you sound like you speaking from emotion and not fact. Got to be careful about that. People will nod their head at you, but think you're crazy. Trust.
So one brother playing (Robinson) and now the stats are legit. You do realize that the other teams only faced that ONE player 10-20 times a year, out of 150 games. Seriously. I don't think you actually follow baseball. I'm convinced now.
Because the fucker WAS one of the best. At playing fucking baseball dude. Everybody ain't on what you on. I don't have to like the dude...that wasn't the question. Seriously, because he was a racist means he didn't play the game well? That's just myopic. Damn...this is sad.
Dude, he admitted to fucking using them. He said he thought it was flaxseed oil. You're not a real fan of this game. You are making points that a baseball dude wouldn't even make. Sheesh.
Ok, man. You win. You made your case. Excellent job. You win the prize. Extremely intelligent and well-thought out discussion. You really put me in my place. Black power! Kill whitey! Etc.
Sheeesh...
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Who are these 6'3 white boys he was dunking on most nights? Wilt went up against HOFers most nights like Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Willis Reed, Kareem, etc.
Wilt set both the playoff and regular season record for rebounds in a game being guarded by Bill Russell. Wilt won his first NBA title being guarded by HOFer Nate Thurmond. Who are these white boys Wilt feasted on?
When Wilt came into the NBA he immediately became the game's HIGHEST PAID player. The game's BIGGEST DRAW. When Wilt was in the league the best players in the game were BLACK. Russell, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, etc. Contrast that with "Segregation Era" baseball players who BANNED ALL BLACK PLAYERS from the league. Not a single BLACK was in the league. There were no black stars like you had in Wilt's time. The highest paid and most celebrated players were ALL WHITE. The best players were ALL WHITE. And its not like you didnt have an entire league of negroes that were available that were denied entry not based on their talent, but based on the premise they were black.
Wilt Chamberlain could play in the NBA today and he would still be a GIANT by today's standards.
Babe Ruth could NOT play in MLB today. And his stature would be considered rather SMALL. We have pitchers today who are much much bigger & stronger than him.
Who are these 6'3 white boys he was dunking on most nights? Wilt went up against HOFers most nights like Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Willis Reed, Kareem, etc.
Wilt set both the playoff and regular season record for rebounds in a game being guarded by Bill Russell. Wilt won his first NBA title being guarded by HOFer Nate Thurmond. Who are these white boys Wilt feasted on?
When Wilt came into the NBA he immediately became the game's HIGHEST PAID player. The game's BIGGEST DRAW. When Wilt was in the league the best players in the game were BLACK. Russell, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, etc. Contrast that with "Segregation Era" baseball players who BANNED ALL BLACK PLAYERS from the league. Not a single BLACK was in the league. There were no black stars like you had in Wilt's time. The highest paid and most celebrated players were ALL WHITE. The best players were ALL WHITE. And its not like you didnt have an entire league of negroes that were available that were denied entry not based on their talent, but based on the premise they were black.
Wilt Chamberlain could play in the NBA today and he would still be a GIANT by today's standards.
Babe Ruth could NOT play in MLB today. And his stature would be considered rather SMALL. We have pitchers today who are much much bigger & stronger than him.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
I agree.
It's like a teacher who has a classroom of 30 students who are all white kids, bragging that their "best students are white". No shit dumbass!
And white people and blacks who are apologists for baseball's racism think just like that when it comes to the "Segregation Era"!
I agree.
It's like a teacher who has a classroom of 30 students who are all white kids, bragging that their "best students are white". No shit dumbass!
And white people and blacks who are apologists for baseball's racism think just like that when it comes to the "Segregation Era"!
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
So you are saying that the reason they are keeping out the greatest player
out of the HOF on an unproven allegation is not racism? The reason why
teams would absolutely refuse to pitch to him, when they happily pitched
to McGuire in the same circumstances, had nothing do with race. "No one
can say the league is racist because of owners", and you call that logic, what
planet do you live on? Do you know what racism is? Racism is the predjudiced
use of power. Only owners, and the media, have that kind of power. The owners
are the league. The media influences the owners and the fans. That media
in Pittsburgh so poisoned the fans against Bonilla that he had to wear a
batting helmet when he came into town and was playing in the outfield; other
wise the cacs in the outfield stands were throwing golf balls at him. All
this in spite of the fact that there were Policemen on duty in the stands.....
So do not tell me that there is no racism when they entire edifice of America
and its sports is based on racism.
So you are saying that the reason they are keeping out the greatest player
out of the HOF on an unproven allegation is not racism? The reason why
teams would absolutely refuse to pitch to him, when they happily pitched
to McGuire in the same circumstances, had nothing do with race. "No one
can say the league is racist because of owners", and you call that logic, what
planet do you live on? Do you know what racism is? Racism is the predjudiced
use of power. Only owners, and the media, have that kind of power. The owners
are the league. The media influences the owners and the fans. That media
in Pittsburgh so poisoned the fans against Bonilla that he had to wear a
batting helmet when he came into town and was playing in the outfield; other
wise the cacs in the outfield stands were throwing golf balls at him. All
this in spite of the fact that there were Policemen on duty in the stands.....
So do not tell me that there is no racism when they entire edifice of America
and its sports is based on racism.
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Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Like I said, Barry got greedy. Dude should have went about his business and stopped worrying about being loved so much by a CAC press that never would have loved him no matter what.
- again bruh, the same can be said for mcgwire and clemens, they've never tested positive either
mcgwire is a redhead, does baseball hate redheads?
clemens is from ohio, does baseball hate trashy rednecks!?
YOU CATS ARE NOT BASEBALL FANS. yall could give a fuck less about any of this shit unless it says "BONDS".
- which makes this shit even crazier.
A-ROID is on record as saying he wanted 800 homeruns, he was obsessed with getting them. I'd say the same can be said for BONDS or something similar.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060314
Pearlman, who was not at the alleged dinner as far as we know, quoted Barry's message to Griffey and Co. verbatim:
"You know what? I had a helluva season last year, and nobody gave a crap. Nobody. As much as I've complained about McGwire and Canseco and all of the bull with steroids, I'm tired of fighting it. I turn 35 this year. I've got three or four good seasons left, and I wanna get paid. I'm just gonna start using some hard-core stuff, and hopefully it won't hurt my body. Then I'll get out of the game and be done with it."
Like I said, Barry got greedy. Dude should have went about his business and stopped worrying about being loved so much by a CAC press that never would have loved him no matter what.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
Any professional athletics organization that effectively bans a set of superior atheletes is bogus. The MLB in the segregation era would be the equivalent of today's sprint category in Track & Field banning black people from competition. Would anyone respect the "records" produced from such a fraudalent setup?
Segregation Era MLB stats are all bogus and should be categorized as such: Segregation-Era stats.
I agree.
It's like a teacher who has a classroom of 30 students who are all white kids, bragging that their "best students are white". No shit dumbass!
And white people and blacks who are apologists for baseball's racism think just like that when it comes to the "Segregation Era"!
Any professional athletics organization that effectively bans a set of superior atheletes is bogus. The MLB in the segregation era would be the equivalent of today's sprint category in Track & Field banning black people from competition. Would anyone respect the "records" produced from such a fraudalent setup?
Segregation Era MLB stats are all bogus and should be categorized as such: Segregation-Era stats.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach...
Nah, Babe Ruth was.
Nah, Babe Ruth was.
Re: Barry Bonds serves short stint as SF Giants hitting coach, and shows he still has
When people prop those stats up, it's a slap in the face to the Mike Schmidt's, the Greg Maddux's, the Carl Yastrzemski's, the Johnny Damon's, the Tom Seaver's, who actually DID face the best of the best and not just whites. I respect those white players FAR GREATER than I do any of the "segregation era" follies. White supremacist like Cap Anson, Cobb, these CACs are the first stars of many a Major League franchise. Look up their bios, these dudes were pieces of shit even by their time's standards. But baseball "purists" look the other way. I mean guys like Cobb THREW BASEBALL GAMES. A lot of these guys were on the take throwing games and cheating in the early 1900's, but the "purists" look the other way and try to take these fraudulent stats as real.
When people prop those stats up, it's a slap in the face to the Mike Schmidt's, the Greg Maddux's, the Carl Yastrzemski's, the Johnny Damon's, the Tom Seaver's, who actually DID face the best of the best and not just whites. I respect those white players FAR GREATER than I do any of the "segregation era" follies. White supremacist like Cap Anson, Cobb, these CACs are the first stars of many a Major League franchise. Look up their bios, these dudes were pieces of shit even by their time's standards. But baseball "purists" look the other way. I mean guys like Cobb THREW BASEBALL GAMES. A lot of these guys were on the take throwing games and cheating in the early 1900's, but the "purists" look the other way and try to take these fraudulent stats as real.
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