Detroit

[Greed]

Detroit Looks to Obamacare to Cover Pensioners’ Health Care

The states did the same thing to reduce their welfare cost. They just shifted people to a federal program, SSI disability.

Detroit Looks to Obamacare to Cover Pensioners’ Health Care
By Kate Rogers FOXBusiness
Published July 29, 2013

Detroit is hoping to lean on the Affordable Care Act to pick up its massive retiree health care tab as it tries to dig it out of bankruptcy.

The Motor City is reportedly considering shifting its unfunded $5.7 billion in health-care costs of retired workers that aren’t yet eligible for Medicare to the health insurance exchanges that are set to hit the market next year under Obamacare.

The $9 billion in pension liabilities to 21,000 retirees is the greatest cost to the city, which is currently $18 billion in debt, according to the Detroit Free Press.

If the current pension health-benefits are cut, the majority of retirees will either receive care via Medicare if they are at least age 65, or through online insurance exchanges. Those who are at or below 400% of the federal poverty limit will be eligible for subsidies.

“It will actually be discriminatory,” says Gary Burtless, labor expert at the Brookings Institute. “Suppose you are a retiree and you believe you had access to Detroit-provided health insurance plans, but your family income is over four-times the poverty line. You will not get any subsidy and will have to pay for the full cost of the plan without any help of the government, in any form, whatsoever.”

He adds that Detroit retirees are lucky in one sense, since they are Social Security-eligible. In some states, including Massachusetts, public workers cannot collect Social Security benefits because they do not pay into the system. With that said, Detroit retirees depending on a pension might be forced to claim Social Security benefit early, and thus reducing their payments.

But what may be good news for Detroit retirees who are eligible for the health-care subsidy, is bad news for taxpayers, who are helping pay for this coverage for an unnamed amount of pensioners in the city who are not yet Medicare eligible, says Michael Tanner, Cato Institute senior fellow.

“It’s a shift of the cost to these [retired] workers and to the taxpayers at large,” Tanner says. “If Detroit went to Congress and asked them to pay for their plans, Congress would say, ‘no.’ They are getting a bailout from taxpayers.”

The average pension check, per month for a retiree in Detroit is under $1,200 according to the Detroit Free Press. Using the Kaiser Family Foundation’s subsidy calculator, a single, 63-year-old worker receiving a $1,200 check per month, or $14,400 pre-tax per year, would be at 125% of the federal poverty level. This worker seemingly does not smoke, and has no children or other family members on the health-care plan.

Kaiser’s calculator has the unsubsidized annual premium for our fictional worker at $3,018, and the worker paying $288 for care per year.

Other cash-strapped cities and municipalities are watching the situation in Detroit closely, as it may provide financial options to unfunded pension systems, says Tanner.

“This is being talked about in a number of cities,” he says. “The fact is that Detroit will have to cut its health-care plans and this is a way of shifting those costs.”

And if Detroit pulls this off successfully, Burtless thinks many other cities will follow suit.

“If Detroit pulls this off, why shouldn’t other cities and states not evade their responsibilities and commitment?”

Whether this is the solution the city opts for will all depend on its bankruptcy restructuring plan, Tanner says. City Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr has discussed a potential $120 allowance for retirees who were set to receive full health-care benefits before the Chapter 9 filing, says Steven Kreisberg, director of collective bargaining at Detroit’s AFSCME union.

Kreisberg says if the shift occurs, it will bring a reduction in benefits for retirees.

“The ACA has various ranges of coverage, but it will depend on what the retirees are willing to pay,” he says. “You are moving from a situation where employees earned the right to retiree health care to [a situation] where that will be completely withdrawn.”

Solutions to the city’s pension and retiree benefits are still very much in the “discussion” phase, says Kreisberg.

“It’s a significant loss,” he says. “The coverage employees had was seamless from employment to retirement and was very comprehensive. “

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal...to-obamacare-to-cover-pensioners-health-care/

 

[Greed]

Bankrupt Detroit Receives Less U.S. Aid Than Colombia

Bankrupt Detroit Receives Less U.S. Aid Than Colombia

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Bankrupt Detroit Receives Less U.S. Aid Than Colombia

Bankrupt Detroit Receives Less U.S. Aid Than Colombia

Interesting!

 

[thoughtone]

Same old rant!

source: Think Progress

Rush Limbaugh: Detroit Went Bankrupt Because Blacks Drove Out Whites

Economists are attributing Detroit’s recent bankruptcy filing to problems facing the entire Rust Belt region: a shrinking tax base, high health and pension costs, sprawl, and general dysfunction. But on Tuesday, Rush Limbaugh added another cause to the long list of factors that have contributed to the city’s downfall: black people.

During an appearance on Fox News’ On The Record with Greta Van Susteren on Tuesday, Limbaugh claimed that “unchecked” Democratic rule “since the last Republican mayor [in] 1957″ created a lazy and bloated culture of out-of-control spending and corruption.

“You’ve had that — that town has been a petri dish of everything the Democrat Party stands for, everything the Democrat Party loves — massive unions, massive pensions, pay people pensions and health care long after they’ve stopped working,” he said, before arguing that the city’s first black mayor exacerbated the city’s spending and sparked racial riots that chased white people into the suburbs:

LIMBAUGH: You have massive welfare states where citizens are given things left and right in order to buy their votes. You have no opposition whatsoever.

And in the case of the — you throw race into the mix and you bring on Mayor Coleman Young who causes riots in 1967 in Detroit and Mayor Young caused a white flight to suburbia, and Detroit is left with nothing but liberal Democrats running it. It is what it is. And you — any place in this country that has similar circumstances, the same fate is going to happen to them.
​

First, Coleman Young, who Limbaugh claims caused the riots, wasn’t elected to the mayor’s office until six years after violence broke out, in 1973. The New York Times noted in his obituary that by that point, “Detroit had already been reeling from high unemployment in the automobile industry, a high crime rate and deteriorating housing.” Young also wasn’t a proponent of the kind of welfare policies and “massive pensions,” that Limbaugh attributes to Democrats. In the 1970s and early 1980s, he was actually credited with keeping Detroit financially afloat “by persuading city workers to accept cuts in salaries and fringe benefits and voters to approve a $96 million increase in income taxes.” In the late 1990s, the city, still under Democratic rule, even experienced a small revitalization. Household incomes rose, child poverty dropped “by a stunning 13 percentage points,” and homeownership grew.

As for the 1967 riots, they occurred in the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement, when African Americans across the country were, as a study commissioned by President Lyndon Johnson put it, systematically excluded from the benefits of economic progress and faced “Pervasive discrimination and segregation in employment, education and housing.” The report, which focused on the causes of the violence, found that “white racism,” not Coleman Young, “is essentially responsible for the explosive mixture which has been accumulating in our cities since the end of World War II.”

The riots of the late 1960s set off “a chain reaction in neighboring communities.” The violence first started in Newark, New Jersey in July of 1967 and later spread to Detroit. “What the rioters appeared to be seeking was fuller participation in the social order and the material benefits enjoyed by the majority of American citizens,” the 1967 National Advisory Committee on Civil Disorders concluded. “Rather than rejecting the American system, they were anxious to obtain a place for themselves in it.”

Limbaugh is right that white people did leave Detroit in large numbers in the aftermath of the 1967 violence, but that exodus followed a trend of whites abandoning cities as black people moved in and a slowdown in the auto industry. Before the riots, the vast majority of white population growth was already occurring “in suburban portions of metropolitan areas” and white population within the city of Detroit had declined by 1.3 million between 1960 and 1967.

 

[QueEx]

Well, if actinanass can't make it; he sends his fat ass surrogate.

 

[Cruise]

Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh... no way they could be real.

No one could be as stupid as the characters they portray.

It has to be an act. They are so over-the-top ridiculous. It is like an on-going joke... and the joke is on the redneck, inbred, white bread dumbasses that listen and watch them.

 

[muckraker10021]

 

[Adapt]

Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh... no way they could be real.

No one could be as stupid as the characters they portray.

It has to be an act. They are so over-the-top ridiculous. It is like an on-going joke... and the joke is on the redneck, inbred, white bread dumbasses that listen and watch them.

Cruise my man, are you ever SO RIGHT. Check out this article



Friday, September 01, 2006

Sean Hannity - Sheer lunacy
Well, to be more accurate, anything coming from Fox News is scripted lunacy.

This week, Sean Hannity said one of the things worth dying for is ensuring Nancy Pelosi does not become speaker of the house of representatives.

Let's hope Sean meant it.

But of course, Sean is an actor, paid to play a role; something his audience may never accept. Sean is no different than a lawyer who is paid to "zealously" defend a position he may not agree with for the sole purpose of getting paid and paid very well.

Now I have nothing against getting paid well for services rendered; however, most people know lawyers don't believe the nonsense they spew forth. Judging from the size of his audience, most don't know Sean is just a paid shill (a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence games, etc.), ready to defend his money masters regardless of his personal beliefs.

While I don't participate in politics, and see government as a cancer on the world, it would be great for Nancy Pelosi become the next speaker of the house.

posted by Marc Stevens @ 9:35 AM

 

[QueEx]

The Old Lessons of Detroit​

Just days ago Detroit, arguably America’s most distressed urban area, made the largest declaration of insolvency by any U.S. municipality ever. Given the city’s unique role in American economic and cultural history, many people—from national leaders to concerned citizens—have wondered whether its predicament portends anything larger for the nation as a whole. The answer: It likely does not.​

The truth is that the challenges faced by Detroit have been common to the majority of America’s biggest cities for the last five decades. Distressingly, though not surprisingly, they just happened to join together with a unique and dogged fury in America’s motor city, and the citizens there are paying the price.


Rather than focus on esoteric questions of what Detroit’s bankruptcy means for bondholders on Wall Street, urgent energy needs to be devoted to the 700,000 mostly black, mostly poor Americans who remain there with nowhere else to go. This includes the 21,000 city pensioners who receive $19,000 as part of a contract they made with the city decades ago.

Frighteningly, the local economy has cratered to such an extent that less than a million people are left in a city designed to hold three times that many residents. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Detroit has a poverty rate three times the national average with close to six out of 10 children living in poverty. It takes the Detroit police over an hour to answer a 911 call, one out of three of the city’s ambulances are inoperative, and four out of 10 street lights don’t work. Detroit is clearly a city flat on its back.

These facts underscore that the scale of Detroit’s fiscal woes is breathtaking. The city owes 100,000 creditors over $18.5 billion. In the past five years alone it’s wracked up half-a-billion dollars in additional debt.

The core issue is that there’s simply not enough people nor economic activity to make the city’s debt payments and satisfy its needs. Detroit’s population is two-thirds smaller than at its height 60 years ago. And it needs more government than it can pay for. Given the desperate situation, Steve Rattner, who orchestrated the government bailout of the entire auto industry in 2009, has called for a bailout of Detroit’s residents.

Though we are all faced with Detroit’s pressing emergency, the truth is that the city didn’t land here overnight.

Through a combination of an over-reliance on a single, formerly all-powerful industry and two generations of unsteady political leadership, Detroit remained stuck and resistant to change. The Washington Post’s Keith Richburg, a Detroit-native, said that the city was “kept alive by pride, a nostalgia for its former glory, and an illusion that revival was just around the corner.”

The essential problem is that Detroit has remained the capital of an industry which built America but is now a shadow of its former self: the car industry. And nothing in the city has shown up to replace it. That’s because automobiles were so dominant for so long that they crowded out the city’s economic imagination.

Let’s take a brief step back to see how. Before the car, the U.S. was a nation of small towns and agriculture. But after the introduction of the mass produced automobile by Detroit’s Ford, General Motors and eventually Chrysler, the nation quickly became the world’s biggest economy.

Detroit’s rise followed suit.

For those who’ve grown up with the American car industry in constant crisis, it’s hard to imagine a time when automobiles were the most important and valuable item that America made. However that time wasn’t all that long ago. From 1913 until almost 1970, Detroit was the Silicon Valley of the United States.

The U.S. economy, the car industry and the city of Detroit all moved in tandem for a while. Led by the manufacture of automobiles, during the 1950s, half of all economic activity in the world occurred in the United States. During that time, Ford, GM and Chrysler made eight out of 10 cars produced on the planet. The American economic and car industry boom fueled Motown’s ascent to the position of country’s third largest city, with 2.1 million residents.

Moreover, the industry’s commitment to equal pay for people of color created a robust black community in Detroit, so powerful that it transformed global culture through Motown Records with such talent as The Supremes, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye.

Over time, all of this changed, due in part due to policy changes in Washington. The U.S. economy decoupled from Detroit, and the world based on the churning out of goods along an assembly line went away. Manufacturing as a portion of the U.S. economy is now two-thirds smaller than when Detroit was at its height. Outpaced by global competition, the Big Three car makers’ percentage of even the U.S. market has fallen by 50 percent since 1950. And Detroit has slid down in the ranking of American cities to be 18th in size.

Yet even with global economic realignment, Detroit’s longterm collapse was not preordained.

With better leadership the city could have made the painful transition that so many other cities have made during the global economy’s transformation from one based on manufacturing to one based on services and technology. Pittsburgh moved from a one-industry steel town to one now dominated by medical and education services. Minneapolis is now home to leading brands like 3M, Target, and Best Buy. Even hard-hit Indianapolis is making a go at reworking itself from a rustbelt town into a distribution and pharmaceutical hub.

Yet the leadership to make this happen wasn’t available to Detroit. As Richburg puts it, “Detroit politics has been wracked by a series of corruption scandals, going back to the [1970s].” Kwame Kilpatrick, who presided over the city at the beginning of its most recent financial crisis in 2008, was convicted of 24 counts of corruption and related crimes.

The bottom line is that history slowly turned against Detroit, and all along the way no one in charge showed up to chart a steady and required change. Regardless, our concerns should now center on the people of Detroit, rather than obsessing over the litany of global challenges, local errors, and flawed leadership that helped shatter the city in the first place.
​

Source: Colorlineshttp://colorlines.com/archives/2013/07/detroit_bankruptcy_lessons.html

 

[Cruise]

The Old Lessons of Detroit​

This 'news" is such absolute horseshit. More Detroit "experts" that don't live in Detroit.

You have 1 white boy, White Boy Rick Snyder Governor of Michigan, magically decide, in opposition to hundreds of thousands of Detroiters, that suddenly Detroit is in "crisis" and black people no longer get to make the decisions.

Since there was no real "crisis" based on the facts, he made one up and the whites and their white wannabes immediately accepted it as fact.

Now every fool in the country wants to point the fingers at the "leadership" (all black of course) without looking at anything else, because that's what the 1 white boy (White Boy Rick Snyder) told them.

This reminds me of the run-up to the Iraq/Afghanistan War back in 2002.

There are WMDs and terrorists and nuclear bombs and what have you

People immediately believed that shit and attacked you if you dared criticize it.

Americans haven't learned shit in 12 years.

Detroit would have been fine if White Boy Rick didn't appear.

But, since this is another opportunity to blame the black man, everyone jumps on board.

This is going to lead to another unending disaster like the Iraq/Afghanistan war.

White Boy Rick is already setting up plans for control of Detroit after the bankruptcy that will last indefinitely.

Reminds me of McCain saying he wouldn't mind if the US were in Afghanistan for 100 years.

I'll use white propaganda to counter white propaganda.

The truth about Detroit: Did Detroit really need to file for bankruptcy?

Source - Detroit Free Press

Did Detroit really need to file for bankruptcy? Today we examine an argument, published in a prominent Wall Street publication, that it did not.

The Bond Buyer, a publication tracking Detroit’s troubles from the standpoint of the municipal bond market, published a provocative column last week by Richard Larkin, a senior vice president and director of credit analysis at the Herbert J. Sims investment advisory firm.

Larkin’s claim that Detroit did not need to file for bankruptcy is based on financial assumptions that are, needless to say, much rosier than those of Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr. To take the most obvious point of contention, Larkin proclaims that the city’s two pension funds are not underfunded by more than $3 billion, as Orr stated in his June 14 plan of reorganization.

Rather, Larkin says the funds are financially sound and assumption of a long-term 8% rate of return is realistic, despite Orr’s concerns that it’s too optimistic. “Stock market returns are indeed volatile, and yet the 25-year average of annualized returns for the S&P 500 has not been below 8% since 1954,” Larkin wrote.

In his column, he outlined a 10-point plan that he contends could have kept (and may yet keep) Detroit out of bankruptcy.

Among those points:

Claim: The State of Michigan could restore prior levels of state aid to Detroit. Larkin wrote that this would not be considered “new money” or a state bailout but just a return to pre-recession aid levels. If it happened, this would generate additional annual revenue to Detroit of about $56 million.

Claim: Larkin praises elements of Orr’s reorganization plan that envision better collection of revenues already due the city, as for example through better tax collection. These are estimated at about $22 million to $25 million annually.

Claim: Larkin wrote that the city could refinance its existing general obligation bonds and retire 63% of principal in 10 years, which he considers “unusually fast,” and convert debt service to a 30-year debt service. “This would reduce Detroit’s debt costs by nearly $257 million over the 10-year plan, and make its debt repayment period similar to many other solvent cities in the U.S.,” Larkin wrote.

Claim: Larkin likes Orr’s plan to spend $500 million on blight removal in Detroit, but he thinks Orr should pay for it differently. Orr would use money saved by stiffing bond holders and pensioners to pay for blight removal. Larkin would raise the $500 million immediately by selling tax-increment bonds. Then, as formerly blighted sites came back on the tax rolls through new development, the additional revenue could pay off the bonds.

Claim: Larkin urges city and suburban voters to approve a regional tax (on either wages, property, or sales) “to help fund Detroit facilities that truly provide value to the suburbs, such as museums, parks or other operations that truly provide benefits to suburban residents that use them.” Larkin wrote that a “regional tax for regional facilities” is a concept that was successfully implemented by Pittsburgh and that it could help Detroit’s general fund by about $50 million to $52 million per year.

Analysis: These and other assumptions in Larkin’s column might, in fact, work, provided his math is correct. But getting state lawmakers and suburban voters to send more money Detroit’s way might prove to be a hard sell. With Detroit facing massive budget deficits each year, it might be too late in the game to try to implement such measures. And there is no guarantee that cleaning up sites through blight removal would generate enough new development to pay off bonds.

However, Larkin’s assertion that the city’s pension funds are not underfunded, paired with a similar recent claim by the Morningstar investment advisory firm, highlights what is sure to be a major point of contention in Detroit’s bankruptcy.

Orr’s claim helps him justify reducing pension benefits. The health of the funds therefore becomes a battleground in what looks like a long legal fight.

In a broader sense, Orr must still persuade U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes that the city is eligible to file for Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy. To do that, Orr must demonstrate that the city is insolvent. Larkin’s column and his financial assumptions shows that a claim of insolvency is by no means a slam dunk.

 

[QueEx]

I'll use white propaganda to counter white propaganda.


The truth about Detroit: Did Detroit really need to file for bankruptcy?

Source - Detroit Free Press

Did Detroit really need to file for bankruptcy? Today we examine an argument, published in a prominent Wall Street publication, that it did not.

The Bond Buyer, a publication tracking Detroit’s troubles from the standpoint of the municipal bond market, published a provocative column last week by Richard Larkin, a senior vice president and director of credit analysis at the Herbert J. Sims investment advisory firm.

Larkin’s claim that Detroit did not need to file for bankruptcy is based on financial assumptions that are, needless to say, much rosier than those of Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr. To take the most obvious point of contention, Larkin proclaims that the city’s two pension funds are not underfunded by more than $3 billion, as Orr stated in his June 14 plan of reorganization.

Rather, Larkin says the funds are financially sound and assumption of a long-term 8% rate of return is realistic, despite Orr’s concerns that it’s too optimistic. “Stock market returns are indeed volatile, and yet the 25-year average of annualized returns for the S&P 500 has not been below 8% since 1954,” Larkin wrote.

In his column, he outlined a 10-point plan that he contends could have kept (and may yet keep) Detroit out of bankruptcy.

Among those points:

Claim: The State of Michigan could restore prior levels of state aid to Detroit. Larkin wrote that this would not be considered “new money” or a state bailout but just a return to pre-recession aid levels. If it happened, this would generate additional annual revenue to Detroit of about $56 million.

Claim: Larkin praises elements of Orr’s reorganization plan that envision better collection of revenues already due the city, as for example through better tax collection. These are estimated at about $22 million to $25 million annually.

Claim: Larkin wrote that the city could refinance its existing general obligation bonds and retire 63% of principal in 10 years, which he considers “unusually fast,” and convert debt service to a 30-year debt service. “This would reduce Detroit’s debt costs by nearly $257 million over the 10-year plan, and make its debt repayment period similar to many other solvent cities in the U.S.,” Larkin wrote.

Claim: Larkin likes Orr’s plan to spend $500 million on blight removal in Detroit, but he thinks Orr should pay for it differently. Orr would use money saved by stiffing bond holders and pensioners to pay for blight removal. Larkin would raise the $500 million immediately by selling tax-increment bonds. Then, as formerly blighted sites came back on the tax rolls through new development, the additional revenue could pay off the bonds.

Claim: Larkin urges city and suburban voters to approve a regional tax (on either wages, property, or sales) “to help fund Detroit facilities that truly provide value to the suburbs, such as museums, parks or other operations that truly provide benefits to suburban residents that use them.” Larkin wrote that a “regional tax for regional facilities” is a concept that was successfully implemented by Pittsburgh and that it could help Detroit’s general fund by about $50 million to $52 million per year.

Analysis: These and other assumptions in Larkin’s column might, in fact, work, provided his math is correct. But getting state lawmakers and suburban voters to send more money Detroit’s way might prove to be a hard sell. With Detroit facing massive budget deficits each year, it might be too late in the game to try to implement such measures. And there is no guarantee that cleaning up sites through blight removal would generate enough new development to pay off bonds.

However, Larkin’s assertion that the city’s pension funds are not underfunded, paired with a similar recent claim by the Morningstar investment advisory firm, highlights what is sure to be a major point of contention in Detroit’s bankruptcy.

Orr’s claim helps him justify reducing pension benefits. The health of the funds therefore becomes a battleground in what looks like a long legal fight.

In a broader sense, Orr must still persuade U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes that the city is eligible to file for Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy. To do that, Orr must demonstrate that the city is insolvent. Larkin’s column and his financial assumptions shows that a claim of insolvency is by no means a slam dunk.

Actually, the article does a pretty good job of pointing out the problem: If those (black or white) in charge would get a better analysis of the situation, Detroit would be a long way towards resolving its problems. But, that's what I've been pointing out all along.

Now, back to your blame oriented approach of solving nothing.

 

[Cruise]

Actually, the article does a pretty good job of pointing out the problem: If those (black or white) in charge would get a better analysis of the situation, Detroit would be a long way towards resolving its problems. But, that's what I've been pointing out all along.

Now, back to your blame oriented approach of solving nothing.

We all know your approach is doing wonders for Detroit, namely blaming the black man.

You are the one posting all these articles on Detroit and don't even live here.

It's like a white person talking about the plight of the black man to a black man.

What exactly are your qualifications to speak on this issue over me, exactly?

So, you've given your assessment. My question is, What are you going to do?

Just tell me, What are you going to do about it?

 

[QueEx]

We all know your approach is doing wonders for Detroit, namely blaming the black man.

You are the one posting all these articles on Detroit and don't even live here.

It's like a white person talking about the plight of the black man to a black man.

What exactly are your qualifications to speak on this issue over me, exactly?

So, you've given your assessment. My question is, What are you going to do?

Just tell me, What are you going to do about it?

Same thing I've been doing, drawing light to the situation.

Now, as a resident, what have you done ???

 

[Cruise]

Same thing I've been doing, drawing light to the situation.

Now, as a resident, what have you done ???

Your "drawing light" is just an opinion, an assessment. Like assholes, every body got's one.

What ACTIONS have you taken?

I'll help you understand...

who have you talked to in Detroit?

What cases have you filed to help Detroiters? (you're a lwayer, right?)

What block have you helped clean?

What connections have you made?

What investments in Detroit do you have?

Who have you helped in Detroit, financially?

You are expert at lip service, about Detroit.

Well, let's see what you've done besides post shit and talk shit about Detroit.

 

[QueEx]

Well, looks like we're pretty much even. I haven't done shit in Detroit, because I'm NOT THERE.. You haven't done shit and you're wallowing right in the midst of it.

On second thought, we're not even. My score is 0, from afar; but your's is -1 for being there and not doing shit either. Hold up, your's is -100 for having the nerve to talk shit, blame everyone else, and take no gotdamn ACTION, yourself.

 

[Cruise]

Well, looks like we're pretty much even. I haven't done shit in Detroit, because I'm NOT THERE.. You haven't done shit and you're wallowing right in the midst of it.

On second thought, we're not even. My score is 0, from afar; but your's is -1 for being there and not doing shit either. Hold up, your's is -100 for having the nerve to talk shit, blame everyone else, and take no gotdamn ACTION, yourself.

In your own post you admitted you aren't even here to tell.

DAMN! Have some integrity.

You don't know shit about Detroit.
You ain't doing shit in Detroit.
You aren't helping shit in Detroit.
You are not from Detroit and don't know anyone in Detroit.

But, in your mind, you are the Detroit expert, who has never been here.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Find something else because you're doing a great job of looking like a fool talking about a place you know nothing about.

 

[QueEx]

Dude, you have no clue what I know. But we both know this: you're there and you haven't done shit.

 

[Cruise]

Well, looks like we're pretty much even. I haven't done shit in Detroit, because I'm NOT THERE..

You can't be this ridiculous. But, the evidence is right there.

But, this is how you operate in so many threads.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. All you do is post a bunch of Jew/white propaganda and say, see, this is the truth.

You've been exposed today.

 

[muckraker10021]

For His Scurrilously Racist And Inaccurate Statement....


Kevyn Orr Finally Says 'I Apologize'

August 14 2013

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/arti...i_apologize_for_the_shot_heard_around_detroit

 

[Greed]

Abandoned Dogs Roam Detroit in Packs as Humans Dwindle

<iframe width="1000" height="1250" src="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-21/abandoned-dogs-roam-detroit-in-packs-as-humans-dwindle.html" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Cruise]

Jewberg/Jew York City stays pissing on Detroit.

I don't think Detroiters thought much of New York going back to Henry Ford.

Because, really, want kind of "news" story is this?

Could just as easily talk about the cockroach and rat problem in New York.

But, oh no. You can't do that.

Because then you would be pissing on the Jewish holy land of New York.

However, it's okay to piss on the chocolate city of Detroit.

Nothing to see here folks. Just more Jew-baiting.

 

[Greed]

Jewberg/Jew York City stays pissing on Detroit.

I don't think Detroiters thought much of New York going back to Henry Ford.

Because, really, want kind of "news" story is this?

Could just as easily talk about the cockroach and rat problem in New York.

But, oh no. You can't do that.

Because then you would be pissing on the Jewish holy land of New York.

However, it's okay to piss on the chocolate city of Detroit.

Nothing to see here folks. Just more Jew-baiting.

So basically, there is no such thing as a valid criticism or a valid story about Detroit?

 

[Cruise]

So basically, there is no such thing as a valid criticism or a valid story about Detroit?

If you're not from Detroit, it begs the question.

What makes the criticism "valid" in your opinion?

I am from Detroit, and am telling you, in an informed, and knowledgeable way that this Jew-shit is pure race hatred. Why would you believe the fools in New York about Detroit over the people in Detroit about Detroit?

That Jew-shit in New York says nothing about the Jew York banks that have devastated homeowners and savings in Detroit. But, then they talk about some petty shit like this, that places no blame on New York (fuck-up central).

Would I take the word of some Jew in New York about conditions in Haiti over someone from Haiti?

Would I take the word of a white about the plight of black people over other black people?

No other city makes it a point to piss on Detroit, like New York.

What is a "valid" criticism?

 

[Greed]

If you're not from Detroit, it begs the question.

What makes the criticism "valid" in your opinion?

I am from Detroit, and am telling you, in an informed, and knowledgeable way that this Jew-shit is pure race hatred. Why would you believe the fools in New York about Detroit over the people in Detroit about Detroit?

That Jew-shit in New York says nothing about the Jew York banks that have devastated homeowners and savings in Detroit. But, then they talk about some petty shit like this, that places no blame on New York (fuck-up central).

Would I take the word of some Jew in New York about conditions in Haiti over someone from Haiti?

Would I take the word of a white about the plight of black people over other black people?

No other city makes it a point to piss on Detroit, like New York.

What is a "valid" criticism?

Valid is whatever is accurate.

It seems like you have reserved an impossibly high standard for people talking about Detroit.

 

[Cruise]

Valid is whatever is accurate.

It seems like you have reserved an impossibly high standard for people talking about Detroit.

It seems impossibly high if you have no qualifications, nor experience, nor respect in Detroit. I am making the point that it is not accurate and a ridiculous exaggeration. All the problems these Jews and whites cause in Detroit, and this is what they tell the world about the chocolate city.

If I were to talk about your family, without any understanding of your family, and with problems in my own family, wouldn't you question my "valid" criticisms of your family? "Valid" to whom and for what purpose?

If I were an enemy of your family, wouldn't that make you dismiss anything I had to say about your family?

I am the most experienced person on this board when it comes to Detroit (except for other Detroiters).

It bewilders me why black people would ask someone who is not from the area, what the area is like, when you can just ask people who live there.

If they say they don't know, that is one thing.

But, Detroiters don't even get a voice on what these Jews in New York say.

These Jews make up some shit and Detroiters now have to play the defensive.

That was the Jew plan all along... to undermine the faith, trust, and credibility of black people in Detroit.

 

[Greed]

It seems impossibly high if you have no qualifications, nor experience, nor respect in Detroit. I am making the point that it is not accurate and a ridiculous exaggeration. All the problems these Jews and whites cause in Detroit, and this is what they tell the world about the chocolate city.

I feel like that's the first time you've at least acknowledged that the problems are real. Even though you think Detroit natives are not the root cause of the problems, that's debatable.

If I were to talk about your family, without any understanding of your family, and with problems in my own family, wouldn't you question my "valid" criticisms of your family? "Valid" to whom and for what purpose?

If I were an enemy of your family, wouldn't that make you dismiss anything I had to say about your family?

I feel anyone approached for money by my family is entitled to assess my family's traits and virtue. I believe appealing to people for help opens you up to the evaluation process.

I am the most experienced person on this board when it comes to Detroit (except for other Detroiters).

It bewilders me why black people would ask someone who is not from the area, what the area is like, when you can just ask people who live there.

If they say they don't know, that is one thing.

Detroit isn't unique in its characteristics. The severity of the results is what's unique. Chicago spends more than it can afford too. A mid-size city supplementing dwindling tax revenue with debt is common. White flight isn't uncommon.

Many of us have first hand knowledge of what Detroit has gone through. It's not reasonable to say that non-Detroiter=ignorance.

But, Detroiters don't even get a voice on what these Jews in New York say.

These Jews make up some shit and Detroiters now have to play the defensive.

That was the Jew plan all along... to undermine the faith, trust, and credibility of black people in Detroit.

Stop with the Jew shit.

They have the model black people should be following. Put your group first and focus on economics. That in itself is a stereotype and mostly untrue, but compared to black stereotypes, I'd rather have the Jewish one.

 

[Cruise]

I feel like that's the first time you've at least acknowledged that the problems are real. Even though you think Detroit natives are not the root cause of the problems, that's debatable.


I feel anyone approached for money by my family is entitled to assess my family's traits and virtue. I believe appealing to people for help opens you up to the evaluation process.

Everyone has problems. My question is why do the Jews in New York take such pleasure in broadcasting the negative about Detroit, but none of the positive? It's like when they say nothing good about Africa, but can't wait to scream about how bad Africa is.

Detroit isn't begging anyone for money. GM and Chrysler may be, but not Detroit.

Where did you get that Detroit was begging Jew York for money? Was it from the Jew-controlled media?

Detroit isn't unique in its characteristics. The severity of the results is what's unique. Chicago spends more than it can afford too. A mid-size city supplementing dwindling tax revenue with debt is common. White flight isn't uncommon.

Many of us have first hand knowledge of what Detroit has gone through. It's not reasonable to say that non-Detroiter=ignorance.

Actually Detroit is quite unique in its characteristics. It is easy to be dismissive of Detroit if you are not from Detroit.

It is the largest black city in the country.

It is the largest city sitting on the most important international border crossing in the Western Hemisphere.

It has the largest large-scale manufacturing capacity in the country. There is a reason Detroit was called the Arsenal of Democracy.

The city is built for building industrial products and international trade.

New York has ALWAYS hated that and Jews take special delight in pissing all over Detroit and undermining its importance.

Stop with the Jew shit.

They have the model black people should be following. Put your group first and focus on economics. That in itself is a stereotype and mostly untrue, but compared to black stereotypes, I'd rather have the Jewish one.

Do you not know that Jews think black people are cursed by God and racially inferior? (at least the ones that follow the Talmud)

I don't want anything to do with those devils.

 

[Greed]

Everyone has problems. My question is why do the Jews in New York take such pleasure in broadcasting the negative about Detroit, but none of the positive? It's like when they say nothing good about Africa, but can't wait to scream about how bad Africa is.

It's not the Jews. "News" that gets printed is overwhelmingly bad. In generally, how much positive stuff get's printed? You're taking this unusual event of something bad happening to an entire city personally. And you're making it personal with Jews when it's nothing more than modern journalism. Especially when you consider how political this whole thing is portrayed.

Detroit isn't begging anyone for money. GM and Chrysler may be, but not Detroit.

Where did you get that Detroit was begging Jew York for money? Was it from the Jew-controlled media?

That's not realistic to say. Considering all the US Reps, state-level Senators and Reps, and city officials, you know it's been said multiple times. Just Google "detroit bailout." You'll get stories of the Detroit members of the CBC and even Flint officials supporting it, so their city can get loot later. Even you alluded to a right to a bailout in an earlier post in this thread, "No bailout for Obama despite bailouts for all those whites."

Actually Detroit is quite unique in its characteristics. It is easy to be dismissive of Detroit if you are not from Detroit.

It is the largest black city in the country.

It is the largest city sitting on the most important international border crossing in the Western Hemisphere.

It has the largest large-scale manufacturing capacity in the country. There is a reason Detroit was called the Arsenal of Democracy.

The city is built for building industrial products and international trade.

New York has ALWAYS hated that and Jews take special delight in pissing all over Detroit and undermining its importance.

So why did it fail? Detroit has been on a multi-decade decline. You can't just cite the latest round of foreclosures or perpetual racism.

Do you not know that Jews think black people are cursed by God and racially inferior? (at least the ones that follow the Talmud)

I don't want anything to do with those devils.

I'm aware, from their actions, that white people don't see black people as their equals. That's not unique to Jews. But Jews are a hated group within white people by white people, and I would still prefer black people strive for the stereotype of self and economics. Jews are nothing to be especially mad at compared to white people in general.

 

[Cruise]

It's not the Jews. "News" that gets printed is overwhelmingly bad. In generally, how much positive stuff get's printed? You're taking this unusual event of something bad happening to an entire city personally. And you're making it personal with Jews when it's nothing more than modern journalism. Especially when you consider how political this whole thing is portrayed.

Let's have an informed conversation about this. First, you need to understand Jews.

Jews don't like or respect black people.

They terrorize Africa.

They exploit black communities and people in the United States.

Look into Dr. Tony Martin.

Look into the Khazars.

Look up "fake Jews" and Hollywood, Wall Street (the two places that demonize Detroit the most).

That's not realistic to say. Considering all the US Reps, state-level Senators and Reps, and city officials, you know it's been said multiple times. Just Google "detroit bailout." You'll get stories of the Detroit members of the CBC and even Flint officials supporting it, so their city can get loot later. Even you alluded to a right to a bailout in an earlier post in this thread, "No bailout for Obama despite bailouts for all those whites."

I said Obama offered no bailout to Detroit... not that Detroit asked for a bailout.

And, when I say Detroit, in this case, I am talking about the City of Detroit corporation, not Federal government representatives from Detroit.

Why are you so determined to make Detroit look bad? What's in it for you?

So why did it fail? Detroit has been on a multi-decade decline. You can't just cite the latest round of foreclosures or perpetual racism.

The United States has been on a multi-decade decline, yet all the screaming and hollering is about Detroit, the black city (big surprise).

New York, Chicago, Los Angeles try to hide their failures with pretty buildings and new condos, but they are all in a lot worse shape than 40 years ago.

Crumbling infrastructure, terrible schools, drowning in debt, ZERO manufacturing base, dangerously dependent on imports, just one disruption away from total shutdown (look at Sandy and New York, 2003 electrical outage).

Los Angeles has a HUGE water problem because they get all their fresh water from the San Joaquin valley, which is 300 miles to the North and is draining. Los Angeles has maybe a 2 or 3 day supply and people won't have any water to drink. If someone were to blow up that aqueduct, LA would be fucked!

New York/Manhattan has to pump billions of gallons of water out of the sewers and subways EVERY SINGLE DAY! If the pumps were to stop, the streets would flood, the subway system would stop working and Manhattan would be STOPPED COLD!

Chicago has electrical problems and unexplained power outages. It also has one of the highest concentrations of high-rises in the world. Without elevators, people can't use skyscrapers. Imagine another power outage, like in 2003, but longer. Chicago would just about cease to function as a city, just because the elevators don't work.

Detroit's sewers, water, and high-rise problems are nothing compared to these places.

Yet, this trash has the nerve to talk about Detroit when they have their own SERIOUS problems to fix.

I'm aware, from their actions, that white people don't see black people as their equals. That's not unique to Jews. But Jews are a hated group within white people by white people, and I would still prefer black people strive for the stereotype of self and economics. Jews are nothing to be especially mad at compared to white people in general.

Once you learn about Jews, also learn about the Moors.

This whole white supremacy thing was born out of the Spanish and the Jews for enslaving Africans.

Whites and Christianity do not have in their religious systems that black people are racially inferior. So, where did that begin?

It began with Jews, continued with Jews, and is pushed by Jews to this day.

Jews invented all these gross stereotypes about black people, about our physical characteristics.

You just do not understand the contempt Jews have for black people, until you study Jews.

It makes Jew York City/Hollywood hatred for Detroit all the more understandable.

 

[4North1Side2]

I just visited detroit for the very first time this weekend, I found the city beautiful architecurally. I kind of get the feeling white people do not associate with blacks unless they have to. The black people were very friendly. There was a lot of family friendly events going on this weekend. For a city to be bankrupted, a lot of damn people drive nice ass cars there. I felt so poor lol

 

[michigantoga]

I just visited detroit for the very first time this weekend, I found the city beautiful architecurally. I kind of get the feeling white people do not associate with blacks unless they have to. The black people were very friendly. There was a lot of family friendly events going on this weekend. For a city to be bankrupted, a lot of damn people drive nice ass cars there. I felt so poor lol

The people has always been good in Detroit for the most part. The older people their will bring a smile to your face.

 

[QueEx]

The people has always been good in Detroit for the most part. The older people their will bring a smile to your face.

I agree, good people in Detroit.

. . . and I'm smiling, already.

 

[Greed]

Let's have an informed conversation about this. First, you need to understand Jews.

Jews don't like or respect black people.

They terrorize Africa.

They exploit black communities and people in the United States.

Look into Dr. Tony Martin.

Look into the Khazars.

Look up "fake Jews" and Hollywood, Wall Street (the two places that demonize Detroit the most).

.......

Once you learn about Jews, also learn about the Moors.

This whole white supremacy thing was born out of the Spanish and the Jews for enslaving Africans.

Whites and Christianity do not have in their religious systems that black people are racially inferior. So, where did that begin?

It began with Jews, continued with Jews, and is pushed by Jews to this day.

Jews invented all these gross stereotypes about black people, about our physical characteristics.

You just do not understand the contempt Jews have for black people, until you study Jews.

It makes Jew York City/Hollywood hatred for Detroit all the more understandable.

Cruise, I'll say right off the bat, I don't believe in magic.

I don't assign any extra fault to Jews, regarding the state of the world, than I think can be attributed to white people in general. I have always rejected the notion that everything bad in history can be attributed to some super-cabal of white people. The death and destruction throughout history is easily explained by the very nature of humanity allowed to run amok. They didn't, and don't, need any special prodding from some Legion of Doom. You make it sound as if you could just get rid of Jews then white people would be great to be around. Don't buy it, never did.

I said Obama offered no bailout to Detroit... not that Detroit asked for a bailout.

And, when I say Detroit, in this case, I am talking about the City of Detroit corporation, not Federal government representatives from Detroit.

Actually, what you said was, "Detroit isn't begging anyone for money." That's what I responded to in my post. You're not allowed to dismiss the actions of people who are paid and publicly recognized to be representatives of the citizens of Detroit.

Why are you so determined to make Detroit look bad? What's in it for you?

You're getting weird.

The United States has been on a multi-decade decline, yet all the screaming and hollering is about Detroit, the black city (big surprise).

New York, Chicago, Los Angeles try to hide their failures with pretty buildings and new condos, but they are all in a lot worse shape than 40 years ago.

Crumbling infrastructure, terrible schools, drowning in debt, ZERO manufacturing base, dangerously dependent on imports, just one disruption away from total shutdown (look at Sandy and New York, 2003 electrical outage).

Los Angeles has a HUGE water problem because they get all their fresh water from the San Joaquin valley, which is 300 miles to the North and is draining. Los Angeles has maybe a 2 or 3 day supply and people won't have any water to drink. If someone were to blow up that aqueduct, LA would be fucked!

New York/Manhattan has to pump billions of gallons of water out of the sewers and subways EVERY SINGLE DAY! If the pumps were to stop, the streets would flood, the subway system would stop working and Manhattan would be STOPPED COLD!

Chicago has electrical problems and unexplained power outages. It also has one of the highest concentrations of high-rises in the world. Without elevators, people can't use skyscrapers. Imagine another power outage, like in 2003, but longer. Chicago would just about cease to function as a city, just because the elevators don't work.

Detroit's sewers, water, and high-rise problems are nothing compared to these places.

Yet, this trash has the nerve to talk about Detroit when they have their own SERIOUS problems to fix.

I already stated that every city has problems. I also stated that Detroit is unique in regards to the severity of the problem. As in, to the point where bankruptcy was filed. In multiple threads we've both affirmed our belief that the US in decline, but that doesn't explain why Detroit is such a mess. Jew conspiracy doesn't cut it.

 

[Cruise]

Cruise, I'll say right off the bat, I don't believe in magic.

I don't assign any extra fault to Jews, regarding the state of the world, than I think can be attributed to white people in general. I have always rejected the notion that everything bad in history can be attributed to some super-cabal of white people. The death and destruction throughout history is easily explained by the very nature of humanity allowed to run amok. They didn't, and don't, need any special prodding from some Legion of Doom. You make it sound as if you could just get rid of Jews then white people would be great to be around. Don't buy it, never did.


Actually, what you said was, "Detroit isn't begging anyone for money." That's what I responded to in my post. You're not allowed to dismiss the actions of people who are paid and publicly recognized to be representatives of the citizens of Detroit.


You're getting weird.


I already stated that every city has problems. I also stated that Detroit is unique in regards to the severity of the problem. As in, to the point where bankruptcy was filed. In multiple threads we've both affirmed our belief that the US in decline, but that doesn't explain why Detroit is such a mess. Jew conspiracy doesn't cut it.

Your premise is that... "Detroit is such a mess."

My simple question is this, "Who told you that?"

If my wife said I'm such a mess, that is an entirely different discussion than if my mortal enemy said the same thing.

So, who told you Detroit is such a mess?

 

[Greed]

If my wife said I'm such a mess, that is an entirely different discussion than if my mortal enemy said the same thing.

Philosophically is doesn't matter. Either you are a mess or you aren't. It doesn't matter who says it. It's either true or not.

Haven't you been on this board enough to notice that a fault shouldn't be avoided just because it was stated from a source you don't want to hear it from.

Your premise is that... "Detroit is such a mess."

My simple question is this, "Who told you that?"

So, who told you Detroit is such a mess?

Once again, you shouldn't act like the people paid to represent Detroit citizens don't matter. They are asking for bailouts.

On a tangent point, I hate when QueEx creates new thread from an existing thread. The Kwame Kilpatrick indictment clearly outlined the damage he did very well. In addition, the election of the subsequent mayor clearly outlined the uphill battle he would have to face.

There are multiple examples of Detroit not acknowledging reality. Whether it's couldn't or wouldn't is debatable. But it seems obvious that they didn't. A mid-size city declared bankruptcy after collecting $18 billion in debt. That's a mess.