2 Thessalonians 3:10 - That if any would not work, neither should he eat

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NC protests split on Bible's message to help poor
By CHRIS KARDISH | Associated Press
13 hrs ago

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — Over the last two months, hundreds of protesters have walked out of North Carolina's capitol in handcuffs to show their opposition to policies by the GOP-controlled Legislature.

While a broader coalition of supporters is building around the "Moral Mondays" started by the state chapter of the NAACP, the inspiration behind the protests is a throwback to the biblical message of civil rights leaders fighting segregation in the Jim Crow era.

They argue that cutting benefit programs and cutting tax breaks for low- and middle-income families violates Jesus Christ's teaching to care for those with the least. It's running into another school of Christian thought followed by many Southern conservatives: The best way to help the poor is through private charity, providing jobs and promoting self-reliance, rather than government programs.

The NAACP, and other groups that are joining them in larger numbers, oppose a range of Republican policies, from refusing to expand Medicaid to about 500,000 more people to restricting eligibility for the state's pre-kindergarten program. Republicans, who control both chambers of the Legislature for the first time in more than a century, have also cut unemployment benefits and abolished the earned-income tax credit, which serves low to middle-income people.

State bishops and church leaders from five major Christian denominations issued a statement supporting the NAACP's actions ahead of a clergy-led protest on Monday.

Robert Daniels, senior pastor at St. John's Missionary Baptist Church in Durham, said Monday that he chose to get arrested to let legislators know that disproportionately hurting the poor wouldn't go unnoticed by voters or God.

"I want them to know that justice will win," he said. "God will show his hand that he's for the poor. It's only a matter of time."

On Wednesday, eight more people were arrested outside the doors of the Senate chamber after being told to leave. Two were city council members from Durham and Rocky Mount. They were among 100 people who attended a rally to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the killing of national NAACP field secretary Medgar Evers.

Matthew Wilson, a professor at Southern Methodist University who writes about the intersection of religion and politics, said differences in responses to poverty historically come down to denomination. Roman Catholics and black Protestants don't oppose public solutions, but Protestants of evangelical or Baptist leanings often do. And those denominations — heavily clustered in the South — emphasize personal responsibility, an individual relationship with God and work ethic, he said.

"A lot of studies show that evangelicals give more money to private anti-poverty groups than any others, so they do take very seriously the biblical imperatives to help the poor, but they differ in that they see the biblical imperative to help the poor as being an individual imperative as opposed to a collective social imperative," Wilson said.

Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said he sees Christians as similarly concerned with prosperity for all, but divided over how to bring it about.

"Obviously there will always be those who have no concern for the poor at all, and that's clearly forbidden by Scripture, but usually the differences we have are over unintended consequences," he said. "And so Democrats and Republicans will disagree on what policy objectives will actually help the poor and what will put into place patterns that will, in the long-term, harm poor people.

The protests are dominating local news coverage and attracting national attention, but that doesn't mean they'll be immediately effective. Republicans maintain that they're doing exactly what the public wanted in electing them to veto-proof majorities and the protesters don't represent a clear majority. But the NAACP plans to continue its weekly protests indefinitely.

While some Republicans hesitate to apply biblical lessons to fiscal programs, that hasn't stopped a raft of legislation on private social behavior. In recent years, North Carolina lawmakers have pushed through a constitutional amendment for voters to ban gay marriage and new restrictions on abortion.

Rep. Ruth Samuelson, R-Mecklenburg and a long-practicing Christian, said social legislation as well as economic policy are inevitably driven by worldviews, and among people of faith those perspectives are influenced by their religious beliefs. She said she and her family act charitably in private, but she thinks the best economic policies rein in spending and create a better climate for businesses.

"If we're spending money on this thing, we're taking it from somewhere else, but we can't do it at the cost of the ability of the person paying for the taxes to still have enough to provide for their own families and to create that environment for jobs," she said.

To other Christians, the Bible calls for reforms that more directly address systems of inequality.

Miguel De La Torre, a professor of social ethics at Iliff School of Theology and an ordained Southern Baptist minister, said he sees the NAACP's efforts akin to the Occupy movement but with more of a moral current. The one-time Republican candidate for the Florida House of Representatives said the more evangelical strain of Protestantism is tied to the American ideal of individualism, which he believes misses a clear biblical call to address economic strife.

"Having faith without the work of changing the structures is meaningless, which is where I think the NAACP is opposed to the more dominant evangelical view of Christianity," he said.

The state NAACP chapter president, the Rev. William Barber, argues it's impossible to divorce a call for collective social justice from the Bible, given that most of it was written under systems of exploitation and Christ focused so heavily on uplifting the poor.

"The problem with (private initiative) is, if you see a kid floating down the river, you can run in and rescue that one child. But if you see a bunch more, you have to go up that river to see who's throwing them in," he said. "If we didn't apply that moral critique we wouldn't have hospitals, public schools, universities, Medicaid, Medicare, unemployment (benefits), even labor laws."

http://news.yahoo.com/nc-protests-split-bibles-message-help-poor-161430742.html
 
It's nothing to be split on...

The Bible verse was misused and pointed out by many religious leaders already. He took one verse completely out of context and made it apply to his argument.

also, the person that misused this verse (R -Stephen Fincher) is a farmer who sits on the board of agriculture in Tennessee. He has also reportedly received more than 3 million dollars of government subsidies since 97.

Let that marinate....A farmer by trade in the state of Tennessee, who is an elected state representative, that sits on the board of agriculture in the state of Tennessee. Talk about a conflict of interests.....

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I'm saying that this quote was used out of context......do you not understand how or where or why the quote was used in it's original context?

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I'm saying that this quote was used out of context......do you not understand how or where or why the quote was used in it's original context?

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I feel I do understand it, but its not like its the first time someone has misused the bible for the sake of politics.
 
I feel I do understand it, but its not like its the first time someone has misused the bible for the sake of politics.

What's ur understanding of it?

And you're absolutely correct the Bible has been mis quoted on more than one occasion in order to make a point....

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The New International Version of the bible reads

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

People on unemployment are willing to work. Otherwise they wouldn't have got unemployment in the first place. Same goes for the earned income-tax credit.

I'm all for independence and self reliance, but some people need to be helped outright just to be able to get to that point.
 
What's ur understanding of it?

And you're absolutely correct the Bible has been mis quoted on more than one occasion in order to make a point....

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My understanding is Paul was trying to ensure the Thessalonians that the return of Jesus wasn't imminent.

People were stopping their daily lives in anticipation. He was correcting their behavior in his letter.

Assuming it was really written by Paul.
 
My understanding is Paul was trying to ensure the Thessalonians that the return of Jesus wasn't imminent.

People were stopping their daily lives in anticipation. He was correcting their behavior in his letter.

Assuming it was really written by Paul.

Correct.

People were stopping their daily activities in anticipation of the return of Jesus Christ. The verse was centered on correcting a misunderstanding that these Christians were to remain still and await His second coming, when they actually needed to move forth and continue living an active faith and active life.

It had absolutely nothing to do with passing judgment on the poor as this Fincher idiot used it to do.

The only hypocrite in this situation is Tennessee representative Stephen Fincher who, as i stated earlier, has pocketed more than 3 million dollars worth of government subsidies since 1997. He should not sit on the house committee on agriculture and he should also be made to pay back all funds received during his tenure as a member of this committee.

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Correct.

People were stopping their daily activities in anticipation of the return of Jesus Christ. The verse was centered on correcting a misunderstanding that these Christians were to remain still and await His second coming, when they actually needed to move forth and continue living an active faith and active life.

It had absolutely nothing to do with passing judgment on the poor as this Fincher idiot used it to do.
It could loosely apply to the modern poor, because the Thessalonians that were waiting were subsisting off of the goodwill of others while waiting since they weren't working. There was no state welfare back then.

I think the current hostility towards welfare isn't aimed at the working poor, and that quote with it's "would not work" and "willing" language couldn't be aimed at the working poor either.

It's the perception of someone who could work but doesn't. After that you have the debate of is it an indivdual's moral obligation, or society's duty to provide for others. Which I think is a legitimate debate. I just wish it was happening outside the context of the Bible.

The only hypocrite in this situation is Tennessee representative Stephen Fincher who, as i stated earlier, has pocketed more than 3 million dollars worth of government subsidies since 1997. He should not sit on the house committee on agriculture and he should also be made to pay back all funds received during his tenure as a member of this committee.
I don't about the committee reassignment, but I would definitely be all for him giving back taxpayer money he received while on the committee.
 

also, the person that misused this verse (R -Stephen Fincher) is a farmer who sits on the board of agriculture in Tennessee. He has also reportedly received more than 3 million dollars of government subsidies since 97.

Let that marinate....A farmer by trade in the state of Tennessee, who is an elected state representative, that sits on the board of agriculture in the state of Tennessee. Talk about a conflict of interests.....




jDMuC.SlMa.91.jpeg



 

:smh:

I still don't understand how this farmer can be on the board of agriculture....

dude has a vested interest in the legislation he is sponsoring and passing




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:smh:

I still don't understand how this farmer can be on the board of agriculture....

dude has a vested interest in the legislation he is sponsoring and passing




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In this society, we pretend being a politician is an honorable and selfless calling.

If he is drafting legislation, then its assumed, until proven otherwise, that the legislation is drafted with the best interest of the people.

Note, politicians police themselves and write the laws that define conflicts of interest. Its an obvious result of unlimited government.
 
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Let Them Eat Garbage

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by Digby | June 19, 2013

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/let-them-eat-garbage.html

This is not a joke. Some well-fed congressional staffer says that Food Stamps are too generous and to prove it he goes to the store, buys a bunch of garbage and basically tells the poor to eat it and shut up:
<blockquote>
Donny Ferguson (no relation to this reporter), an aide to outspoken right-wing congressman Rep. Steve Stockman (R-TX) claims that people who say that the Special Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP), more commonly known as food stamps, isn’t enough to live on are lying and that the program should be cut even further. Think Progress flagged a Stockman press release in which Ferguson said he believed that the weekly allotment of food for one person of $31.50 is too generous because he claims was able to purchase a week’s worth of food for $27.58.
<br>
“I wanted to personally experience the effects of the proposed cuts to food stamps. I didn’t plan ahead or buy strategically, I just saw the publicity stunt and made a snap decision to drive down the street and try it myself,” Ferguson said in the release. “I put my money where my mouth is, and the proposed food stamp cuts are still quite filling.”
<br>
Ferguson was reacting to the “SNAP Challenge,” in which Democratic legislators and activists are protesting proposed cuts to the newest Farm Bill, which would slash benefits to people on SNAP. To protest the cuts, people taking the challenge will attempt to live for a week on the amount of food money allotted to people who receive SNAP benefits, $31.50 a week, or $4.50 per day.
<br>
Stockman’s office called the challenge “a left-wing publicity stunt” and claimed “Democrats have been intentionally buying overpriced food and shopping at high-priced chains to make it appear the cuts go too far.”
<br>
With his $27.58, Ferguson purchased:
<br>
• Two boxes of Honeycomb cereal
• Three cans of red beans and rice
• Jar of peanut butter
• Bottle of grape jelly
• Loaf of whole wheat bread
• Two cans of refried beans
• Box of spaghetti
• Large can of pasta sauce
• Two liters of root beer
• Large box of popsicles
• 24 servings of Wyler’s fruit drink mix
• Eight cups of applesauce
• Bag of pinto beans
• Bag of rice
• Bag of cookies
• Gallon milk
• Box of instant oatmeal
</blockquote>

He apparently thinks that people should live on beans and rice (both canned and dried, he likes it so much!) some cheap pasta, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and junk food full of sugar. No fresh vegetables, no meat (not even canned), no eggs, no condiments, no fresh fruit, no oil, not even a box of real oatmeal.
<br>
He must have gotten his shopping list from Sean Hannity:
<blockquote>
Sean Hannity today&nbsp;in answer to a caller who said that people couldn't relate to Mitt Romney because he'd never gone to bed hungry:
<span style="background-color:yellow">
I don't believe people are going to bed hungry. Do you know how much, do you ever go shopping? I go sometimes but I hate it. Do you ever go? ... you can get, for instance I have friends of mine who eat rice and beans all the time. Beans protein, rice. Inexpensive. You can make a big pot of this for a week for negligible amounts of money and you can feed your whole family.
</span>

Look, you should have vegetables and fruit in there as well, but if you need to survive you can survive off it. It's not ideal but you could get some cheap meat and throw in there as well for protein. There are ways to live really, really cheaply.</blockquote>
<span style="background-color:yellow">
Hannity makes more than <i>10 million dollars a year. </i>I'm sure he has just tons of friends who live on rice and beans.</span><br>
<br>
And as for people not going to bed hungry, this piece by Dave Johnson writing about the sequestration cuts to meals on Wheels puts the lie to that:
<blockquote>
But wait, there’s more. The study of the results of the cuts in food to seniors found that the money saved on cutting food to seniors actually causes to government to spend more, because of what happens to seniors when you stop giving them food???

South Shore Journal: The Impact of Nutrition Program Service Cuts on a Senior Population in Northwest Indiana. From the abstract,

<span style="background-color:yellow">Low-income seniors receiving home-delivered meals in Northwest Indiana experienced service cuts in late 2010 and early 2011. Reductions came in the form of fewer food deliveries per week, less food, or new cost-sharing. Six months after the cuts began, 283 seniors who experienced reductions were surveyed. Ninety-five responded for a 34% response rate. Twenty-five percent of respondents were identified as “food insecure,” more than four times as great as statewide and national prevalence rates among seniors.</span> <br>
<span style="background-color:yellow"><b>A disturbingly high 35% of respondents lost weight in the six month period.</b></span>&nbsp;</blockquote><blockquote>
The authors warn that continued budget cuts for community-based senior nutrition programs is a penny-wise-pound-foolish fiscal policy given the documented risk of increased hospitalizations and premature nursing home admissions attributable to nutritional disorders among the elderly.

These “cuts” don’t even actually “cut.” Because they cause the government to have to spend on “increased hospitalizations and premature nursing home admissions attributable to nutritional disorders.”</blockquote>
If the Hannitys and Stockmans of the world have &nbsp;their way, that won't happen. &nbsp;We'll tell the seniors to shop around for some cheaper junk food &nbsp;and health care.
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